A MSS Quadratic growth

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googoIpIex
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A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by googoIpIex » March 1st, 2019, 8:08 pm

I had an Idea for a MSS breeder where we have a puffer which puffs out blockstackers. would it be worth it to make a period-154 gun using herschel tracks
woomy on a vroomy

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Moosey
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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by Moosey » March 1st, 2019, 8:12 pm

googoIpIex wrote:I had an Idea for a MSS breeder where we have a puffer which puffs out blockstackers. would it be worth it to make a period-154 gun using herschel tracks
See pianola breeder.
My CA rules can be found here

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simsim314
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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by simsim314 » March 1st, 2019, 8:34 pm

googoIpIex wrote:would it be worth it to make a period-154 gun using herschel tracks
All guns of all periods are already constructed. I've written a script for anything above 10,000 which takes only logarithmic space. Below 10,000 there is jason summer collection of guns, and below 1000 and above 14 there is Chris and Jason. Specifically P154:

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
56.A$54.3A$53.A$53.2A$37.B9.2B.5B$27.B7.4B8.6B$18.2A6.3B3.B2A6B5.8B$
19.A6.3A.2BA2BA5B4.5B2A3B$19.A.AB2.2BA3BA8B6.3B2A2BABAB$20.2AB.2BA4BA
2BAB2A3B5.3BA3BAB2AB$22.5BA2BABAB3A4B6.2AB3AB2AB$22.4B3ABABA2BA5B6.2A
BABA2B$22.3B2ABA2BA4BA2B.B2A4.B6A2B$23.8BA3BA2B2.BA.A4.B2A2B2AB$22.5B
A2BA2B.3A6.A4.2B6AB$19.B2.BA4B2AB3.3B6.2A4.2BABAB2A$9.B7.4B.2BA3B7.B
11.B2AB3AB2A$2A6.BAB3.B2A5B3AB20.B2ABA3BA3B$.A6.3A.2B3A10B20.BABA2B2A
3B9.A$.A.AB2.3BA2B2A2B2A3B2.4B21.3B2A5B6.3A$2.2AB.2B2A2B5AB2A3B2.4B
21.8B6.A$4.6B3ABABA2BA3B3.3BA21.6B7.2A$4.3BA2BABAB3A6B4.ABAB18.5B.BA
3B.5B$4.3B2AB5A2B2A2B.B2A3.2A2B17.2A4.BABA5B$5.3B2A2B2A2BA3B2.BA.A3.
4B17.A3.2B2A7B$4.6B3A2B.3A6.A4.4B13.3A3.8BA4B$4.6B2AB3.BAB6.2A4.5B11.
A4.4B.4B2ABABAB$6.4B7.B14.4B.2B12.A3B2.2BA2B2AB2A2B$7.B25.A2B2A2B9.BA
3B4.A2B2A3BAB$32.2BA4BA3B5.2B3A5.A7B$30.3BA5B2A2B4.5B6.BA2B2A3B$29.4B
A8BAB2.5B8.B2A2B2AB$30.3BA4BABA2BA6B9.3B2A2BAB$32.2BA3B2A5B2A2B11.7BA
$33.9BA4BA2B8.BA3B2A2BA$33.5BA3BA5BAB7.2B2AB2A2BA2B$33.3B3A2B2ABA2BA
3B7.BABAB2A4B$12.B20.9BA4BA3B9.4BA5B$11.2A2B7.B12.5BABABABA5B9.8B$9.B
A2B2A3B3.3B6.2A4.3BABA2BA2BA4B10.6B$9.BA3BA5B.BAB6.A4.3B2AB2A2BAB2A3B
8.5B.2B$10.A4BA4B2AB2A2.BA.A3.4B3AB2A2B2A3B9.2A$9.2BAB3ABA8B.B2A3.4B.
B2A2BA2BA4B10.A$9.2BABA3BA5B2A3B4.A3B3.BABA9B6.3A$9.3B2A5BA3BABA2B3.B
2AB4.2B5.B.5B5.A$7.2AB.8BAB3ABA2B2.BABA16.4B$6.A.AB2.2AB2A4BA4BA2.4B
18.4B$6.A6.BAB.5BA3BA5B20.4B$5.2A6.3B3.3B2A2BA4B22.4B$14.B7.2B2A.2B2A
2B7.B13.4B$24.B2.BA2BA4B3.3B6.2A5.4B$27.BA2B2A5B.BAB6.A7.4B$28.B3A7BA
BAB2.BA.A8.4B$27.2B2A2B2A3B2AB2AB.B2A10.4B$27.6B3A2B2AB2A3B13.4B$27.
3B2AB2A2B3A6B14.4B$25.2AB.B2AB2A3B2A2B2A2B15.4B$24.A.AB2.BABA7B3AB17.
4B$24.A6.BAB.5B2A2BAB17.4B$23.2A6.3B3.4BA2BAB18.3BA$32.B7.2B2A21.3BA$
42.B23.3AB!

googoIpIex
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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by googoIpIex » March 1st, 2019, 9:00 pm

simsim314 wrote:
googoIpIex wrote:would it be worth it to make a period-154 gun using herschel tracks
All guns of all periods are already constructed. I've written a script for anything above 10,000 which takes only logarithmic space. Below 10,000 there is jason summer collection of guns, and below 1000 and above 14 there is Chris and Jason. Specifically P154:

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
56.A$54.3A$53.A$53.2A$37.B9.2B.5B$27.B7.4B8.6B$18.2A6.3B3.B2A6B5.8B$
19.A6.3A.2BA2BA5B4.5B2A3B$19.A.AB2.2BA3BA8B6.3B2A2BABAB$20.2AB.2BA4BA
2BAB2A3B5.3BA3BAB2AB$22.5BA2BABAB3A4B6.2AB3AB2AB$22.4B3ABABA2BA5B6.2A
BABA2B$22.3B2ABA2BA4BA2B.B2A4.B6A2B$23.8BA3BA2B2.BA.A4.B2A2B2AB$22.5B
A2BA2B.3A6.A4.2B6AB$19.B2.BA4B2AB3.3B6.2A4.2BABAB2A$9.B7.4B.2BA3B7.B
11.B2AB3AB2A$2A6.BAB3.B2A5B3AB20.B2ABA3BA3B$.A6.3A.2B3A10B20.BABA2B2A
3B9.A$.A.AB2.3BA2B2A2B2A3B2.4B21.3B2A5B6.3A$2.2AB.2B2A2B5AB2A3B2.4B
21.8B6.A$4.6B3ABABA2BA3B3.3BA21.6B7.2A$4.3BA2BABAB3A6B4.ABAB18.5B.BA
3B.5B$4.3B2AB5A2B2A2B.B2A3.2A2B17.2A4.BABA5B$5.3B2A2B2A2BA3B2.BA.A3.
4B17.A3.2B2A7B$4.6B3A2B.3A6.A4.4B13.3A3.8BA4B$4.6B2AB3.BAB6.2A4.5B11.
A4.4B.4B2ABABAB$6.4B7.B14.4B.2B12.A3B2.2BA2B2AB2A2B$7.B25.A2B2A2B9.BA
3B4.A2B2A3BAB$32.2BA4BA3B5.2B3A5.A7B$30.3BA5B2A2B4.5B6.BA2B2A3B$29.4B
A8BAB2.5B8.B2A2B2AB$30.3BA4BABA2BA6B9.3B2A2BAB$32.2BA3B2A5B2A2B11.7BA
$33.9BA4BA2B8.BA3B2A2BA$33.5BA3BA5BAB7.2B2AB2A2BA2B$33.3B3A2B2ABA2BA
3B7.BABAB2A4B$12.B20.9BA4BA3B9.4BA5B$11.2A2B7.B12.5BABABABA5B9.8B$9.B
A2B2A3B3.3B6.2A4.3BABA2BA2BA4B10.6B$9.BA3BA5B.BAB6.A4.3B2AB2A2BAB2A3B
8.5B.2B$10.A4BA4B2AB2A2.BA.A3.4B3AB2A2B2A3B9.2A$9.2BAB3ABA8B.B2A3.4B.
B2A2BA2BA4B10.A$9.2BABA3BA5B2A3B4.A3B3.BABA9B6.3A$9.3B2A5BA3BABA2B3.B
2AB4.2B5.B.5B5.A$7.2AB.8BAB3ABA2B2.BABA16.4B$6.A.AB2.2AB2A4BA4BA2.4B
18.4B$6.A6.BAB.5BA3BA5B20.4B$5.2A6.3B3.3B2A2BA4B22.4B$14.B7.2B2A.2B2A
2B7.B13.4B$24.B2.BA2BA4B3.3B6.2A5.4B$27.BA2B2A5B.BAB6.A7.4B$28.B3A7BA
BAB2.BA.A8.4B$27.2B2A2B2A3B2AB2AB.B2A10.4B$27.6B3A2B2AB2A3B13.4B$27.
3B2AB2A2B3A6B14.4B$25.2AB.B2AB2A3B2A2B2A2B15.4B$24.A.AB2.BABA7B3AB17.
4B$24.A6.BAB.5B2A2BAB17.4B$23.2A6.3B3.4BA2BAB18.3BA$32.B7.2B2A21.3BA$
42.B23.3AB!
I'm trying to make a spartan one.
woomy on a vroomy

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simsim314
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Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by simsim314 » March 1st, 2019, 9:09 pm

googoIpIex wrote:I'm trying to make a spartan one.
A. Why would you want to make spartan? Snark and syringe are now synthesizable components just like regular spartan circuits.

B. This P154 is completely spartan gun:

Code: Select all

x = 68, y = 32, rule = b3/s23
3bobo$4b2o$4bo$12bo$13bo$11b3o19bo$31b2o$32b2o$14bo$15b2o$14b2o$21bobo
17b2o$22b2o18bo$22bo9bo9bobo13b3o$32bobo8b2o3bo8bo3bo$32b2o13bob2o6bo
4bo$b2o43bo4bo6b2obo$obo44bo3bo8bo3b2o$2bo9bo35b3o13bobo$11b2o53bo$11b
obo52b2o$19b2o$18b2o$20bo$b2o$2b2o$bo19b3o$21bo$22bo$30bo$29b2o$29bobo
!
You don't need spartan things today at all. But you're using a breeder you don't need spartant but synthesizable things in general. When snark was not part of synthesizable circuitry we used other reflectors. Today everything is as good as anything spartan.

googoIpIex
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Joined: February 28th, 2019, 4:49 pm
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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by googoIpIex » March 2nd, 2019, 12:18 am

I'm more worried about this:

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
3b2o5b2o$3b2o5bo$8bobo$8b2o$4b2o$4bobo$5bo3$14bo$11bo2b3o3b2o$4b5o2b3o
3bo2bo$2b3obob3o4b2obobo$bo4bo4b4obobo2b2o$b2ob2ob4o3bobob2obo$5bobobo
bobo2bo2bobo$5bobobo2bo2bob3ob2o$4b2obob4o6bobo$8bo4b6o2bo$10bo2bo2bo
4b2o$9b2o!
woomy on a vroomy

googoIpIex
Posts: 271
Joined: February 28th, 2019, 4:49 pm
Location: Sqrt(-1)

Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by googoIpIex » March 2nd, 2019, 12:35 am

this is my first version:

Code: Select all

x = 100, y = 156, rule = LifeHistory
56.A$54.3A$53.A$53.2A$37.B9.2B.5B$27.B7.2BAB8.BA4B$18.2A6.3B3.4BABA2B
5.B2A5B$19.A6.3B.9BAB4.B3A3BA2B$19.A.AB2.10BA2BAB6.4B2ABA3B$20.2AB.2B
3A5B2A5B5.3B3AB2A3B$22.3BA2BA8BA3B6.2B5A3B$22.3BA8BA2BA3B6.8B$22.5B2A
5B3A2B.B2A4.9B$23.BA2BA10B2.BA.A4.8B$22.BA9B.3B6.A4.9B$19.B2.2BABA4B
3.3B6.2A4.8B$9.B7.2BAB.3BA2B7.B11.3B5A2B$2A6.3B3.5B2A5B20.3B2AB3A3B$.
A6.3B.7B3A5B20.3BAB2A4B9.A$.A.AB2.2BA6B2A4B2.3BA21.2BA3B3AB6.3A$2.2AB
.2B3A5B3A4B2.ABAB21.5B2AB6.A$4.3BA2BA5B3A4B3.2A2B21.4BAB7.2A$4.4B3A5B
A2BA3B4.4B18.5B.5B.5B$4.4B3A5B3A2B.B2A3.4B17.2A4.4BA4B$5.4B2A6BA2B2.B
A.A3.3BA17.A3.4BABA4B$4.B3A7B.3B6.A4.3BA13.3A3.A3BA4B2A2B$4.2B2A5B3.
3B6.2A4.3A2B11.A4.A3B.BA5BA3B$6.BA2B7.B14.4B.2B12.B3A2.3B2A2BA4B$7.B
25.7B9.5B4.3BAB2A3B$32.11B5.5B5.8B$30.8BA4B4.5B6.9B$29.7BABA5B2.2A3B
8.8B$30.7B2A7BA2BA9.9B$32.8BABA5BA11.8B$33.6BAB2A7B8.3B2ABA3B$33.6BAB
2ABA5B7.4BA2B2A3B$33.8BA2B3A4B7.3BA5BAB$12.B20.6B2A3B3A4B9.2B2A4BAB$
11.4B7.B12.4B2A11B9.4BABAB$9.4BA4B3.3B6.2A4.16B10.4BAB$9.3B2A6B.3B6.A
4.2A15B8.5B.2B$10.B4A10B2.BA.A3.2B2A13B9.2A$9.B2A14B.3A3.2BAB.13B10.A
$9.3A2B2A5B2A2B3A4.4B3.13B6.3A$9.3A2B2A5B2A2B3A3.4B4.2B5.B.5B5.A$7.3A
.14B2AB2.A3B16.4B$6.A.AB2.10B4AB2.B2AB18.4B$6.A6.3B.6B2A4BABA20.4B$5.
2A6.3B3.4BA7B22.4B$14.B7.4B.6B7.B13.4B$24.B2.9B3.3B6.2A5.4B$27.3B3A5B
.3B6.A7.4B$28.BA13B2.BA.A8.3BA$27.BA4BA6BA2BA.B2A10.ABAB$27.BA4BA6BA
3BAB13.2A2B$27.BA3BA6BA4BAB14.4B$25.2AB.A2BA6BA4BAB15.4B$24.A.AB2.13B
AB17.4B$24.A6.3B.5B3A3B17.4B$23.2A6.3B3.9B18.4B$32.B7.4B21.4B$42.B23.
4B5$71.3B$72.2B$34.A38.B$34.3A16.2A$37.A14.B2A$36.2A15.2B$37.3A14.2B
4.5B$38.2AB12.4BA9B$38.ABAB11.4B2A8B$39.4B.B5.4BA3BA3B2AB2AB$40.14B4A
4BA2BA3B$40.12BA9BAB2A4B$40.12BA12BA5B$40.12BA2BA7B2A5BCB$41.14BA7BA
7B2C$39.2AB2.23B3.2C2B$38.A.AB4.B.16B7.3B$38.A11.10B.2B9.2B$37.2A12.
9B13.B$48.11B$47.12B$47.12B$47.11B$47.8B.4B$47.7B4.2A38.D$47.7B4.A40.
D$47.6B6.3A35.3D$46.7B8.A$45.8B$44.8B$43.9B$42.4B.6B$41.4B.7B14.A$40.
4B2.6B13.3A$39.4B3.8B4.B5.A$38.4B5.B2A6B.4B3.2A$37.4B5.2B2A16B$36.4B
7.17B$35.A3B9.17B$34.BABA13.13B$33.2B2A13.12B$32.4B14.10B$31.4B14.11B
$30.4B15.7B.2B$29.4B15.11B$28.4B17.11B$27.4B18.8BA2B7.2A$11.2A13.4B
19.7B3AB2.2A2.A2.A$12.A12.4B18.2AB2.3B5A2.A.A2.2A$12.A.AB2.B5.4B18.A.
AB3.B3AB2A3.B.2A$13.2AB.3B3.4B19.A6.B2AB2AB2.2B2.A$15.6B.4B19.2A7.2BA
3B.2BAB.A.2A$15.10B29.8BA.A.2A.A$15.2B2A5B30.8B.A.A$16.A2BA3B32.5B4.A
2.2A$16.BABA4B31.6B4.2A.3A$17.BA6B29.6B6.B4.A$17.3B2.4B28.7B3.B2AB3A$
15.B.3B3.4B28.8B.B2A.A$13.BA3B6.4B27.10B$13.AB3A3.B3.4B25.3B2A6B$13.
5BA.B2A3.4B18.2A5.2B2A6B$12.B2A3BA2B2A4.4B18.A5.10B$12.A2.2BA2B.B6.4B
17.A.AB2.11B$13.4AB11.4B17.2AB.12B$30.4B18.15B$13.4AB13.4B17.16B$12.A
2.2BA2B.B10.4B10.A5.16B.2B$12.B2A3BA2B2A10.4B7.3A5.18B2A$13.5BA.B2A
11.4B5.A7.17B.B2A$13.AB3A3.B13.4B4.2A5.4B2.8B.4B.B$13.BA3B18.9B4.4B4.
7B$15.B21.6B5.4B5.6B$37.8B2.4B6.4B$35.6BA8B5.A3B$35.7B2A5B5.A.AB$35.
7BA5B6.A.A$33.2AB.10B8.A$32.A.AB3.A2BA2B7.3A$32.A6.B2A3B7.A$31.2A6.4B
$40.3B$41.2B.BA$40.B2ABA.A$39.BABABA.A$37.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$37.4A.2A2.A2.
A$41.A4.2A$39.A.A$39.2A!
it could very likely be improved with some reflector witchcraft.
woomy on a vroomy

googoIpIex
Posts: 271
Joined: February 28th, 2019, 4:49 pm
Location: Sqrt(-1)

Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by googoIpIex » March 2nd, 2019, 1:06 am

I have completed the bricklayer:

Code: Select all

x = 92, y = 156, rule = LifeHistory
56.A$54.3A$53.A$53.2A$37.B9.2B.5B$27.B7.2BAB8.BA4B$18.2A6.3B3.4BABA2B
5.B2A5B$19.A6.3B.9BAB4.B3A3BA2B$19.A.AB2.10BA2BAB6.4B2ABA3B$20.2AB.2B
3A5B2A5B5.3B3AB2A3B$22.3BA2BA8BA3B6.2B5A3B$22.3BA8BA2BA3B6.8B$22.5B2A
5B3A2B.B2A4.9B$23.BA2BA10B2.BA.A4.8B$22.BA9B.3B6.A4.9B$19.B2.2BABA4B
3.3B6.2A4.8B$9.B7.2BAB.3BA2B7.B11.3B5A2B$2A6.3B3.5B2A5B20.3B2AB3A3B$.
A6.3B.7B3A5B20.3BAB2A4B9.A$.A.AB2.2BA6B2A4B2.3BA21.2BA3B3AB6.3A$2.2AB
.2B3A5B3A4B2.ABAB21.5B2AB6.A$4.3BA2BA5B3A4B3.2A2B21.4BAB7.2A$4.4B3A5B
A2BA3B4.4B18.5B.5B.5B$4.4B3A5B3A2B.B2A3.4B17.2A4.4BA4B$5.4B2A6BA2B2.B
A.A3.3BA17.A3.4BABA4B$4.B3A7B.3B6.A4.3BA13.3A3.A3BA4B2A2B$4.2B2A5B3.
3B6.2A4.3A2B11.A4.A3B.BA5BA3B$6.BA2B7.B14.4B.2B12.B3A2.3B2A2BA4B$7.B
25.7B9.5B4.3BAB2A3B$32.11B5.5B5.8B$30.8BA4B4.5B6.9B$29.7BABA5B2.2A3B
8.8B$30.7B2A7BA2BA9.9B$32.8BABA5BA11.8B$33.6BAB2A7B8.3B2ABA3B$33.6BAB
2ABA5B7.4BA2B2A3B$33.8BA2B3A4B7.3BA5BAB$12.B20.6B2A3B3A4B9.2B2A4BAB$
11.4B7.B12.4B2A11B9.4BABAB$9.4BA4B3.3B6.2A4.16B10.4BAB$9.3B2A6B.3B6.A
4.2A15B8.5B.2B$10.B4A10B2.BA.A3.2B2A13B9.2A$9.B2A14B.3A3.2BAB.13B10.A
$9.3A2B2A5B2A2B3A4.4B3.13B6.3A$9.3A2B2A5B2A2B3A3.4B4.2B5.B.5B5.A$7.3A
.14B2AB2.A3B16.4B$6.A.AB2.10B4AB2.B2AB18.4B$6.A6.3B.6B2A4BABA20.4B$5.
2A6.3B3.4BA7B22.4B$14.B7.4B.6B7.B13.4B$24.B2.9B3.3B6.2A5.4B$27.3B3A5B
.3B6.A7.4B$28.BA13B2.BA.A8.3BA$27.BA4BA6BA2BA.B2A10.ABAB$27.BA4BA6BA
3BAB13.2A2B$27.BA3BA6BA4BAB14.4B$25.2AB.A2BA6BA4BAB15.4B$24.A.AB2.13B
AB17.4B$24.A6.3B.5B3A3B17.4B$23.2A6.3B3.9B18.4B$32.B7.4B21.4B$42.B23.
4B5$71.3B$72.2B$34.A38.B$34.3A16.2A$37.A14.B2A$36.2A15.2B$37.3A14.2B
4.5B$38.2AB12.4BA9B$38.ABAB11.4B2A8B$39.4B.B5.4BA3BA3B2AB2AB$40.14B4A
4BA2BA3B$40.12BA9BAB2A4B14.2A$40.12BA12BA5B10.2A.6A$40.12BA2BA7B2A5BA
B7.2A.3A.2A2.A$41.14BA7BA7B2A5.A4.2A.A3.2A$39.2AB2.23B3.2A2B3.2A3.A.
2A4.A$38.A.AB4.B.16B7.3B4.A2.2A.3A.2A$38.A11.10B.2B9.2B5.6A.2A$37.2A
12.9B13.B9.2A$48.11B$47.12B$47.12B$47.11B$47.8B.4B$47.7B4.2A$47.7B4.A
$47.6B6.3A$46.7B8.A10.2A$45.8B19.2A$44.8B$43.9B$42.4B.6B$41.4B.7B14.A
$40.4B2.6B13.3A$39.4B3.8B4.B5.A$38.4B5.B2A6B.4B3.2A$37.4B5.2B2A16B$
36.4B7.17B$35.A3B9.17B$34.BABA13.13B$33.2B2A13.12B$32.4B14.10B$31.4B
14.11B$30.4B15.7B.2B$29.4B15.11B$28.4B17.11B$27.4B18.8BA2B7.2A$11.2A
13.4B19.7B3AB2.2A2.A2.A$12.A12.4B18.2AB2.3B5A2.A.A2.2A$12.A.AB2.B5.4B
18.A.AB3.B3AB2A3.B.2A$13.2AB.3B3.4B19.A6.B2AB2AB2.2B2.A$15.6B.4B19.2A
7.2BA3B.2BAB.A.2A$15.10B29.8BA.A.2A.A$15.2B2A5B30.8B.A.A$16.A2BA3B32.
5B4.A2.2A$16.BABA4B31.6B4.2A.3A$17.BA6B29.6B6.B4.A$17.3B2.4B28.7B3.B
2AB3A$15.B.3B3.4B28.8B.B2A.A$13.BA3B6.4B27.10B$13.AB3A3.B3.4B25.3B2A
6B$13.5BA.B2A3.4B18.2A5.2B2A6B$12.B2A3BA2B2A4.4B18.A5.10B$12.A2.2BA2B
.B6.4B17.A.AB2.11B$13.4AB11.4B17.2AB.12B$30.4B18.15B$13.4AB13.4B17.
16B$12.A2.2BA2B.B10.4B10.A5.16B.2B$12.B2A3BA2B2A10.4B7.3A5.18B2A$13.
5BA.B2A11.4B5.A7.17B.B2A$13.AB3A3.B13.4B4.2A5.4B2.8B.4B.B$13.BA3B18.
9B4.4B4.7B$15.B21.6B5.4B5.6B$37.8B2.4B6.4B$35.6BA8B5.A3B$35.7B2A5B5.A
.AB$35.7BA5B6.A.A$33.2AB.10B8.A$32.A.AB3.A2BA2B7.3A$32.A6.B2A3B7.A$
31.2A6.4B$40.3B$41.2B.BA$40.B2ABA.A$39.BABABA.A$37.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$37.
4A.2A2.A2.A$41.A4.2A$39.A.A$39.2A!
Now all we need is a *WSS puffer for these!
woomy on a vroomy

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dvgrn
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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by dvgrn » March 2nd, 2019, 6:16 am

simsim314 wrote:B. This P154 is completely spartan gun...

You don't need spartan things today at all.... When snark was not part of synthesizable circuitry we used other reflectors. Today everything is as good as anything spartan.
From a practical standpoint, it doesn't seem like these statements are true in this context.

The definition of "Spartan" has recently been altered to mean "easily constructible by slow salvos" -- i.e., things that can be compiled automatically with slsparse. But that p154 gun is pretty far from being something that you could feed into slsparse and get a slow-salvo recipe out. To make a seed for that p154 gun that slsparse could compile, an enormous web of one-time turners would have to be added all around the gun -- not only to make the six 12-glider recipes for the p22 oscillator shown above, but also to set them up so that they don't get in each other's way, and synchronize all of those construction signals so that the gun starts up correctly.

Really if we had to construct this particular p154 gun, we'd probably do some research to find how to crash a glider into a small constellation to get half of the Jason's p22 -- and then put two of those together using splitters and turners, just like the recent Gosper glider gun seed... and then stick six of those together with more turners and splitters.

It can certainly be done, but there would have to be a very very good reason to do that much work!

EDIT: At this point I accidentally switched from p154 to p152, so the example patterns below would need some work to switch them over to the right period. But a similar amount of work could probably make a 1-glider seed for a p154 gun using simsim314's 2-glider seed, so that's probably the way to go anyway.

It's probably quite a lot simpler to build an actual Spartan p152 gun -- Spartan in the old sense of "made out of small separate still lifes". These aren't difficult to build, e.g., with four old-school Callahan G-to-H reflectors. (You can't use Silver reflectors because the cleanup timing isn't compatible with p152.)

Code: Select all

x = 190, y = 206, rule = LifeHistory
54.A$54.3A$57.A22.A$56.AB20.3A11.A$56.A2BA17.A14.3A$58.2BA15.B2AB15.A
14.A$57.A2BA14.4B15.2A12.3A$40.2B15.2BA2B12.4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A$38.5B
13.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A$37.7B12.BABA4B2.36B2.5B$37.8B10.2BA5B2A42B$36.
9B11.4BABA43B2A$35.10B12.BA5B.22B2A17B2A$35.A8B12.2BA28B2A16B.B$34.AB
A8B11.19B2.2B3.23B$34.ABA10B8.3BABA11B11.10B2.9B$34.BA14B2.2B.BABA11B
16.6B3.8B$35.19BA14B19.3B4.7B$35.18BA6B.8B21.B3.5B2A4B$37.15B2A6B3.8B
19.2A2.4BABA5B$37.16B2A5B5.B3.2A20.A2.4BA7B$38.B2.13BA4B10.A18.3A4.3B
ABA5B$48.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A4.4B.3BA4B$49.4B19.A20.2A4.ABA4B$50.4B40.A4.
2BA4B$51.4B36.3A6.2BA3B$52.4B35.A8.7B$53.4B43.8B$54.4B43.8B$55.4B42.
9B$56.4B40.6B.2B2A$57.4B39.7B.BABA$58.4B22.2A15.6B2.2BAB$59.4B22.A8.B
4.8B3.B2A$60.4B21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB$61.4B21.2AB.13B2A2B$62.4B22.18B$63.
4B21.17B$64.4B21.13B$65.4B22.12B$66.4B23.10B$67.4B22.11B$68.4B22.2B.
7B$69.4B21.11B$70.2BAB19.11B$71.2B2A18.11B$72.2A2B17.11B$73.4B16.8B2.
B2A$74.4B15.7B3.BA.A$75.4B14.7B6.A$76.4B13.6B7.2A$77.4B11.7B$78.4B9.
8B$79.4B7.8B$80.4B5.9B$81.4B3.4B.6B74.B2A$32.BA48.4B.4B.7B72.2BA2BAB$
31.3A49.7B2.6B73.3B2A3B$5.2A23.A3B50.5B3.6B71.12B$6.A22.B2AB51.5B4.B
2A2B70.14B$6.A.AB18.4B51.7B2.2B2A3B70.13B$7.2AB.2A14.4B19.A31.4B.4B.
7B70.14B$9.2B2AB12.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A9.A4.4B3.4B.5B70.15B$9.4B6.12B2A4B
10.A18.3A5.3A3.4B5.9B70.14B$9.6B3.11B2AB2A4B5.B3.2A20.A3.A5.4B7.8B70.
13B$10.6B2.11BA2BA5B3.8B19.2A.B.2A3.BA2B9.7B70.8B.3B$10.7B.11BA2BA5B.
8B21.7B2.2A2B11.6B7.2A61.7B$9.21B2A15B23.3B3.2B2A4.2A5.7B7.A62.7B$8.
20B2.2B.15B21.5B.4B6.A4.9B3.BA.A62.6B$7.18B8.4BA12B19.9B7.A.AB.11B.B
2A62.7B$7.16B11.3BA15B2.2B3.2B6.9B9.3A.4B3A6B63.8B$8.14B12.42B12.3A
13B61.8B$7.16B12.7B.32B13.B3AB2ABA6B61.9B$5.2AB.14B11.25B2A14B15.5BA
5B.B2A58.4B.6B$4.A.AB.6B3.3B.B2A8.3BA22B2A16B15.8B2.BA.A56.4B.7B$4.A
4.6B7.BA.A8.2BA5B2.27B2A4B15.3B2.4B4.A55.4B2.6B15.2A$3.2A4.7B9.A8.3BA
2B11.4B.3B.2B.7BA2BA4B12.5B3.4B3.2A53.4B3.8B4.B8.A$9.8B2.2A4.2A8.2B2A
B12.4B6.9B2AB2.B2A11.2AB6.4B56.4B5.B2A6B.4B3.BA.A$7.12BA.A13.BA2B14.
4B4.13B2.BA.A11.A8.4B54.4B5.2B2A13B.B2A$7.11B3.A14.B2A15.4B2.8B3.2B6.
A8.3A10.4B52.4B7.18B$7.5B2A4B3.2A11.4B17.2BA9B2.4B6.2A7.A13.4B50.4B9.
17B$7.5B2A3B17.2A20.2B2A6B3.2A32.4B48.4B13.13B$7.10B18.A21.2A6B5.A33.
4B46.4B13.12B$7.9B16.3A21.6B5.3A35.4B44.4B14.10B$7.9B16.A22.8B4.A38.
4B42.BA2B14.4BA6B$8.8B38.4B2.4B43.4B40.2A2B15.3B3AB.2B$7.8B38.4B4.4B
43.4B38.2B2A15.3B2A2BA3B$8.6B38.4B6.4B43.4B36.4B17.2BAB3A4B$2.2A4.6B
37.4B8.4B43.4B34.4B18.2B2A7B$3.A.B2.6B36.4B10.4B43.4B32.4B19.11B$3.A.
AB.7B34.4B12.4B43.4B30.4B18.2AB2.4BA3B$4.2A2B.6B33.4B14.4B43.4B28.4B
18.A.AB3.4BA2B$5.9B33.4B16.4B43.4B26.4B19.A6.2B3A2B$6.8B32.4B18.4B43.
4B24.4B19.2A7.6B$7.8B30.4B20.4B43.4B22.4B29.7B$8.7B29.4B22.4B43.4B20.
4B30.8B$9.6B7.2A19.4B24.4B43.4B18.4B32.8B$9.2B3A2B6.A19.4B26.4B43.4B
16.4B33.9B$9.2BA4B3.BA.A18.4B28.4B43.4B14.4B33.6B.2B2A$9.3BA4B2.B2A
18.4B30.4B43.4B12.4B34.7B.BA.A$9.11B19.4B32.4B43.4B10.4B36.6B2.B.A$9.
7B2A2B18.4B34.4B43.4B8.4B37.6B4.2A$9.4B3ABA2B17.4B36.4B43.4B6.4B38.6B
$10.3BA2B2A3B15.2A2B38.4B43.4B4.4B38.8B$10.2B.B3A3B15.2B2A40.4B43.4B
2.4B38.8B$9.6BA4B14.2BAB42.4B38.A4.8B22.A16.9B$9.10B14.4B44.4B35.3A5.
6B21.3A16.9B$7.12B13.4B46.4B33.A5.6B2A21.A18.10B$5.13B13.4B48.4B32.2A
3.6B2A2B20.2A17.3B2A5B$4.17B9.4B50.4B13.A7.2A6.4B2.9BA2B17.4B11.2A3.
4B2A5B$4.18B7.4B52.4B10.3A8.A6.2B3.8B2.4B15.2AB14.A3.11B$2.2AB.13B2A
2B5.4B54.4B8.A11.A.AB2.13B4.4B14.2BAB13.A.A12B$.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B56.
4B6.B2A11.2AB2.B2A9B6.4B12.B2A2B8.2A4.2A2.8B$.A8.B4.8B3.4B53.2A3.4B3.
5B12.4BA2BA7B.2B.3B.4B11.2BA3B8.A9.7B4.2A$2A15.6B2.4B55.A4.4B2.3B15.
4B2A27B2.5BA2B8.A.AB7.6B4.A$16.7B.4B56.A.AB2.8B15.16B2A22BA3B8.2AB.3B
3.6B.BA.A$16.6B.4B58.2AB.5BA5B15.14B2A25B11.14B.B2A$17.9B61.6BAB2AB3A
B13.32B.7B12.16B$17.8B61.13B3A12.42B12.14B$16.8B63.6B3A4B.3A9.9B6.2B
3.2B2.15BA3B11.16B$16.7B62.2AB.11B.BA.A7.9B19.12BA4B8.18B$16.6B62.A.A
B3.9B4.A6.4B.5B21.15B.2B2.20B$15.7B62.A7.7B5.2A4.2A2B3.3B23.15B2A21B$
15.7B61.2A7.6B11.2B2A2.7B21.8B.5BA2BA11B.7B$10.3B.8B70.7B9.2BAB3.2A.B
.2A19.8B3.5BA2BA11B2.6B$9.13B70.8B7.4B5.A3.A20.2A3.B5.4B2AB2A11B3.6B$
8.14B70.9B5.4B3.3A5.3A18.A10.4B2A12B6.4B$7.15B70.5B.4B3.4B4.A9.A15.3A
12.B.3B.4B12.B2A2B$7.14B70.7B.4B.4B31.A19.4B14.2A.B2A$8.13B70.3B2A2B
2.7B51.4B18.BA.A$8.14B70.2B2AB4.5B51.B2AB22.A$9.12B71.6B3.5B50.3BA23.
2A$11.3B2A3B73.6B2.7B49.3A$12.BA2BA2B72.7B.4B.4B48.AB$14.2AB74.6B.4B
3.4B$92.9B5.4B$92.8B7.4B$91.8B9.4B$91.7B11.4B$82.2A7.6B13.4B$83.A6.7B
14.4B$83.A.AB3.7B15.4B$84.2AB2.8B16.4B$86.11B17.2B2A$86.11B18.2A2B$
86.11B19.BA2B$85.11B21.4B$86.7B.2B22.4B$86.11B22.4B$87.10B23.4B$87.
12B22.4B$88.13B21.4B$85.17B21.4B$84.18B22.4B$83.2B2A13B.B2A21.4B$84.B
2A6B.4B3.BA.A21.4B$77.2AB3.8B4.B8.A22.4B$77.BA2B2.6B15.2A22.4B$78.ABA
B.7B39.4B$79.2A2B.6B40.4B20.2A$80.9B42.4B17.2B2AB$81.8B43.4B16.4B$82.
8B43.4B15.6B$83.7B8.A35.4B15.5B$84.3BA2B6.3A36.4B14.6B$84.4BA2B4.A40.
4B13.7B$84.4BABA4.2A20.A19.4B12.6B$84.4BA3B.4B4.A15.3A12.B.3B.4B10.7B
$84.5BABA3B4.3A18.A10.4BA13B4.6B$84.7BA4B2.A20.2A3.B5.5B2A13B2.7B$84.
5BABA4B2.2A19.8B3.6B2A12B2.7B$85.4B2A5B3.B21.8B.6BA13B.9B$88.7B4.3B
19.14BA24B$87.8B3.6B16.11BABAB.2B2.20B4.B$86.9B2.10B11.11BABA3B8.19B.
B2A$85.23B3.2B2.19B11.19B2A$83.B.16B2A28BA2B12.17B.B$82.2A17B2A22B.5B
AB12.17B$82.2A43BABA4B11.17B$83.42B2A5BA2B8.2AB.15B$81.5B2.36B2.4BABA
B8.A.AB4.12B$81.2A6.5B5.13B.4B11.6B8.A9.11B$82.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B12.
2BA2B8.2A8.13B$79.3A12.2A15.4B14.A2BA18.12B$79.A14.A16.2A16.A2B20.10B
$95.3A14.A17.A2BA19.9B$97.A11.3A20.BA19.9B$109.A22.A20.9B$133.3A18.5B
$135.A18.4B$154.4B$153.4B$152.4B$151.4B$150.4B$149.4B$148.4B$147.4B$
146.4B$145.4B$144.4B$143.4B$142.4B$141.A3B$140.A3B$140.3A!
It wouldn't be much fun to build high-period rakes for two of these guns, but the task could be completed maybe a hundred times faster than solving all the startup conflicts in the other p152 guns.

It Still Ain't Trivial, Though
The startup problem isn't particularly easy even for the Spartan p152 gun! You have to sneak eight extra gliders in to clean up all the Annoying Beehives that get created, until the four reflectors become self-sustaining. To see the problem, add a new Herschel 152 ticks after the initial marked Herschel in the following p912 gun.

(You could try this edit by hitting F1 in LifeViewer, by the way, now that Build 301 is out! Ctrl+Shift+R or whatever a hard refresh is in your browser, if you're still seeing Build 292.)

Code: Select all

x = 190, y = 211, rule = LifeHistory
54.A$54.3A$57.A22.A$56.2A20.3A11.A$77.A14.3A$77.2A16.A14.A$94.2A12.3A
$107.A$107.2A3$106.2A$87.2A17.2A$35.A51.2A$34.A.A$34.A.A$35.A3$56.2A
32.2A$56.2A11.2A20.A$69.A18.3A$70.3A15.A$72.A20.2A$94.A$91.3A$91.A4$
109.2A$109.A.A$84.2A25.A$85.A25.2A$85.A.A15.2A$86.2A15.2A12$104.2A$
104.A.A$106.A$106.2A5$174.2A$33.A139.A2.A$31.3A140.2A$5.2A23.A$6.A23.
2A62.2A$6.A.A85.2A$7.2A2.2A37.A$11.2A35.3A15.A9.A$47.A18.3A5.3A$34.2A
11.2A20.A3.A$34.2A32.2A3.2A$105.2A$71.A12.2A19.A$70.A.A12.A17.A.A$70.
A.A12.A.A15.2A$71.A14.2A4.A$91.A.A$91.A.A$5.2A52.2A31.A10.2A$4.A.A16.
2A34.2A42.A.A$4.A18.A.A45.2A32.A82.2A$3.2A20.A44.A2.A31.2A81.A$19.2A
4.2A44.2A4.2A11.2A77.2A15.A.A$19.A.A55.A.A11.A77.2A15.2A$21.A57.A8.3A
$12.2A7.2A36.2A18.2A7.A$12.2A20.2A24.2A7.2A$35.A23.A10.A$32.3A32.3A$
32.A34.A4$2.2A$3.A$3.A.A162.2A$4.2A161.A.A$167.A$166.2A3$22.2A$22.A$
20.A.A161.2A$20.2A162.A.A$186.A$186.2A4$122.A34.A$120.3A32.3A$119.A
34.A$119.2A33.2A20.2A$101.A7.2A56.2A7.2A$99.3A8.A57.A$2.2A15.2A77.A
11.A.A55.A.A$.A.A15.2A77.2A11.2A4.2A44.2A4.2A$.A81.2A31.A2.A44.A20.2A
$2A82.A32.2A45.A.A18.A$84.A.A42.2A11.C22.2A16.A.A$85.2A10.A31.2A9.3C
40.2A$89.2A5.A.A41.C.C$88.A2.A4.A.A41.C$89.2A6.A4.2A14.A$85.2A15.A.A
12.A.A$84.A.A17.A12.A.A$84.A19.2A12.A$83.2A$115.2A3.2A32.2A$116.A3.A
20.2A11.2A$113.3A5.3A18.A$113.A9.A15.3A35.2A$139.A37.2A2.2A$94.2A85.A
.A$94.2A62.2A23.A$159.A23.2A$14.2A140.3A$13.A2.A139.A$14.2A5$82.2A$
83.A$83.A.A$84.2A12$85.2A15.2A$85.2A15.A.A$77.2A25.A$78.A25.2A$78.A.A
$79.2A73.2A$154.2A3$98.A$96.3A$95.A$95.2A20.A$101.A15.3A$99.3A18.A$
98.A20.2A11.2A$98.2A32.2A4$164.2A$164.2A$101.2A12.2A$82.2A17.2A11.3A.
2A$82.2A31.2A.3A$114.3A.2A23.2A$114.2A26.A.A$81.2A59.A$82.A58.2A$79.
3A12.2A$79.A14.A16.2A$95.3A14.A$97.A11.3A20.2A$109.A22.A$133.3A$135.A
18$138.2A$139.A$136.3A$136.A!
Sometimes there are quicker fixes than others. A trick like the following will successfully overclock three of the four reflector loops -- but unfortunately that won't work at p152, either:

Code: Select all

x = 618, y = 662, rule = B3/S23
482bo$482b3o$485bo22bo$484b2o20b3o11bo$505bo14b3o$505b2o16bo14bo$522b
2o12b3o$535bo$535b2o3$534b2o$515b2o17b2o$463bo51b2o$462bobo$462bobo$
463bo3$484b2o32b2o$484b2o11b2o20bo$497bo18b3o$498b3o15bo$500bo20b2o$
522bo$519b3o$519bo4$537b2o$537bobo$512b2o25bo$513bo25b2o$513bobo15b2o$
514b2o15b2o12$532b2o$532bobo$534bo$534b2o4$508bo$508b3o91b2o$461bo49bo
89bo2bo$459b3o48b2o90b2o$433b2o23bo$434bo23b2o62b2o$434bobo85b2o$435b
2o2b2o37bo30bo$439b2o35b3o15bo9bo3bobo$475bo18b3o5b3o4b2o$462b2o11b2o
20bo3bo$462b2o32b2o3b2o$533b2o$512b2o19bo$513bo17bobo$513bobo15b2o$
514b2o4bo$519bobo$519bobo$433b2o52b2o31bo10b2o$432bobo16b2o34b2o42bobo
$432bo18bobo45b2o32bo82b2o$431b2o20bo44bo2bo31b2o81bo$447b2o4b2o44b2o
4b2o11b2o77b2o15bobo$447bobo55bobo11bo77b2o15b2o$449bo57bo8b3o$440b2o
7b2o56b2o7bo$440b2o20b2o33b2o$463bo34bo$460b3o32b3o$460bo34bo$484b2o$
483bobo4b2o$483bo5bobo$430b2o50b2o6bo$431bo$431bobo162b2o$432b2o161bob
o$595bo$594b2o3$450b2o$450bo$448bobo161b2o$448b2o162bobo$614bo$555bo6b
2o50b2o$554bobo5bo$554b2o4bobo$560b2o$550bo34bo$548b3o32b3o$547bo34bo$
547b2o33b2o20b2o$529bo7b2o56b2o7b2o$527b3o8bo57bo$430b2o15b2o77bo11bob
o55bobo$429bobo15b2o77b2o11b2o4b2o44b2o4b2o$429bo81b2o31bo2bo44bo20b2o
$428b2o82bo32b2o45bobo18bo$512bobo42b2o11bo22b2o16bobo$513b2o10bo31b2o
9b3o40b2o$524bobo41bo$524bobo41bo$525bo4b2o$513b2o15bobo$512bobo17bo$
512bo19b2o$511b2o$543b2o3b2o32b2o$544bo3bo20b2o11b2o$541b3o5b3o18bo$
541bo9bo15b3o35b2o$567bo37b2o2b2o$522b2o85bobo$522b2o62b2o23bo$587bo
23b2o$442b2o140b3o$441bo2bo139bo$442b2o5$510b2o$511bo$511bobo$512b2o8$
500bo$500b3o$503bo$502b2o$513b2o15b2o$513b2o15bobo$532bo$532b2o2$582b
2o$582b2o3$526bo$524b3o$523bo$523b2o20bo$529bo15b3o$527b3o18bo$526bo
20b2o11b2o$526b2o32b2o3$487b2o$486bobo103b2o$488bo103b2o$529b2o$510b2o
17b2o11bo$510b2o$542bo28b2o$542bo27bobo$509b2o59bo$510bo58b2o$507b3o
12b2o$507bo14bo16b2o$523b3o14bo$525bo11b3o20b2o$537bo22bo$561b3o$563bo
18$566b2o$567bo$564b3o$564bo17$433b2o$432bobo$434bo52$379b2o$378bobo$
380bo52$325b2o$324bobo$326bo52$271b2o$270bobo$272bo52$217b2o$216bobo$
218bo52$163b2o$162bobo$164bo52$109b2o$108bobo$110bo52$55b2o$54bobo$56b
o52$b2o$obo$2bo!

googoIpIex
Posts: 271
Joined: February 28th, 2019, 4:49 pm
Location: Sqrt(-1)

Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by googoIpIex » March 2nd, 2019, 1:06 pm

dvgrn wrote:

Code: Select all

x = 190, y = 206, rule = LifeHistory
54.A$54.3A$57.A22.A$56.AB20.3A11.A$56.A2BA17.A14.3A$58.2BA15.B2AB15.A
14.A$57.A2BA14.4B15.2A12.3A$40.2B15.2BA2B12.4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A$38.5B
13.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A$37.7B12.BABA4B2.36B2.5B$37.8B10.2BA5B2A42B$36.
9B11.4BABA43B2A$35.10B12.BA5B.22B2A17B2A$35.A8B12.2BA28B2A16B.B$34.AB
A8B11.19B2.2B3.23B$34.ABA10B8.3BABA11B11.10B2.9B$34.BA14B2.2B.BABA11B
16.6B3.8B$35.19BA14B19.3B4.7B$35.18BA6B.8B21.B3.5B2A4B$37.15B2A6B3.8B
19.2A2.4BABA5B$37.16B2A5B5.B3.2A20.A2.4BA7B$38.B2.13BA4B10.A18.3A4.3B
ABA5B$48.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A4.4B.3BA4B$49.4B19.A20.2A4.ABA4B$50.4B40.A4.
2BA4B$51.4B36.3A6.2BA3B$52.4B35.A8.7B$53.4B43.8B$54.4B43.8B$55.4B42.
9B$56.4B40.6B.2B2A$57.4B39.7B.BABA$58.4B22.2A15.6B2.2BAB$59.4B22.A8.B
4.8B3.B2A$60.4B21.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB$61.4B21.2AB.13B2A2B$62.4B22.18B$63.
4B21.17B$64.4B21.13B$65.4B22.12B$66.4B23.10B$67.4B22.11B$68.4B22.2B.
7B$69.4B21.11B$70.2BAB19.11B$71.2B2A18.11B$72.2A2B17.11B$73.4B16.8B2.
B2A$74.4B15.7B3.BA.A$75.4B14.7B6.A$76.4B13.6B7.2A$77.4B11.7B$78.4B9.
8B$79.4B7.8B$80.4B5.9B$81.4B3.4B.6B74.B2A$32.BA48.4B.4B.7B72.2BA2BAB$
31.3A49.7B2.6B73.3B2A3B$5.2A23.A3B50.5B3.6B71.12B$6.A22.B2AB51.5B4.B
2A2B70.14B$6.A.AB18.4B51.7B2.2B2A3B70.13B$7.2AB.2A14.4B19.A31.4B.4B.
7B70.14B$9.2B2AB12.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A9.A4.4B3.4B.5B70.15B$9.4B6.12B2A4B
10.A18.3A5.3A3.4B5.9B70.14B$9.6B3.11B2AB2A4B5.B3.2A20.A3.A5.4B7.8B70.
13B$10.6B2.11BA2BA5B3.8B19.2A.B.2A3.BA2B9.7B70.8B.3B$10.7B.11BA2BA5B.
8B21.7B2.2A2B11.6B7.2A61.7B$9.21B2A15B23.3B3.2B2A4.2A5.7B7.A62.7B$8.
20B2.2B.15B21.5B.4B6.A4.9B3.BA.A62.6B$7.18B8.4BA12B19.9B7.A.AB.11B.B
2A62.7B$7.16B11.3BA15B2.2B3.2B6.9B9.3A.4B3A6B63.8B$8.14B12.42B12.3A
13B61.8B$7.16B12.7B.32B13.B3AB2ABA6B61.9B$5.2AB.14B11.25B2A14B15.5BA
5B.B2A58.4B.6B$4.A.AB.6B3.3B.B2A8.3BA22B2A16B15.8B2.BA.A56.4B.7B$4.A
4.6B7.BA.A8.2BA5B2.27B2A4B15.3B2.4B4.A55.4B2.6B15.2A$3.2A4.7B9.A8.3BA
2B11.4B.3B.2B.7BA2BA4B12.5B3.4B3.2A53.4B3.8B4.B8.A$9.8B2.2A4.2A8.2B2A
B12.4B6.9B2AB2.B2A11.2AB6.4B56.4B5.B2A6B.4B3.BA.A$7.12BA.A13.BA2B14.
4B4.13B2.BA.A11.A8.4B54.4B5.2B2A13B.B2A$7.11B3.A14.B2A15.4B2.8B3.2B6.
A8.3A10.4B52.4B7.18B$7.5B2A4B3.2A11.4B17.2BA9B2.4B6.2A7.A13.4B50.4B9.
17B$7.5B2A3B17.2A20.2B2A6B3.2A32.4B48.4B13.13B$7.10B18.A21.2A6B5.A33.
4B46.4B13.12B$7.9B16.3A21.6B5.3A35.4B44.4B14.10B$7.9B16.A22.8B4.A38.
4B42.BA2B14.4BA6B$8.8B38.4B2.4B43.4B40.2A2B15.3B3AB.2B$7.8B38.4B4.4B
43.4B38.2B2A15.3B2A2BA3B$8.6B38.4B6.4B43.4B36.4B17.2BAB3A4B$2.2A4.6B
37.4B8.4B43.4B34.4B18.2B2A7B$3.A.B2.6B36.4B10.4B43.4B32.4B19.11B$3.A.
AB.7B34.4B12.4B43.4B30.4B18.2AB2.4BA3B$4.2A2B.6B33.4B14.4B43.4B28.4B
18.A.AB3.4BA2B$5.9B33.4B16.4B43.4B26.4B19.A6.2B3A2B$6.8B32.4B18.4B43.
4B24.4B19.2A7.6B$7.8B30.4B20.4B43.4B22.4B29.7B$8.7B29.4B22.4B43.4B20.
4B30.8B$9.6B7.2A19.4B24.4B43.4B18.4B32.8B$9.2B3A2B6.A19.4B26.4B43.4B
16.4B33.9B$9.2BA4B3.BA.A18.4B28.4B43.4B14.4B33.6B.2B2A$9.3BA4B2.B2A
18.4B30.4B43.4B12.4B34.7B.BA.A$9.11B19.4B32.4B43.4B10.4B36.6B2.B.A$9.
7B2A2B18.4B34.4B43.4B8.4B37.6B4.2A$9.4B3ABA2B17.4B36.4B43.4B6.4B38.6B
$10.3BA2B2A3B15.2A2B38.4B43.4B4.4B38.8B$10.2B.B3A3B15.2B2A40.4B43.4B
2.4B38.8B$9.6BA4B14.2BAB42.4B38.A4.8B22.A16.9B$9.10B14.4B44.4B35.3A5.
6B21.3A16.9B$7.12B13.4B46.4B33.A5.6B2A21.A18.10B$5.13B13.4B48.4B32.2A
3.6B2A2B20.2A17.3B2A5B$4.17B9.4B50.4B13.A7.2A6.4B2.9BA2B17.4B11.2A3.
4B2A5B$4.18B7.4B52.4B10.3A8.A6.2B3.8B2.4B15.2AB14.A3.11B$2.2AB.13B2A
2B5.4B54.4B8.A11.A.AB2.13B4.4B14.2BAB13.A.A12B$.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B56.
4B6.B2A11.2AB2.B2A9B6.4B12.B2A2B8.2A4.2A2.8B$.A8.B4.8B3.4B53.2A3.4B3.
5B12.4BA2BA7B.2B.3B.4B11.2BA3B8.A9.7B4.2A$2A15.6B2.4B55.A4.4B2.3B15.
4B2A27B2.5BA2B8.A.AB7.6B4.A$16.7B.4B56.A.AB2.8B15.16B2A22BA3B8.2AB.3B
3.6B.BA.A$16.6B.4B58.2AB.5BA5B15.14B2A25B11.14B.B2A$17.9B61.6BAB2AB3A
B13.32B.7B12.16B$17.8B61.13B3A12.42B12.14B$16.8B63.6B3A4B.3A9.9B6.2B
3.2B2.15BA3B11.16B$16.7B62.2AB.11B.BA.A7.9B19.12BA4B8.18B$16.6B62.A.A
B3.9B4.A6.4B.5B21.15B.2B2.20B$15.7B62.A7.7B5.2A4.2A2B3.3B23.15B2A21B$
15.7B61.2A7.6B11.2B2A2.7B21.8B.5BA2BA11B.7B$10.3B.8B70.7B9.2BAB3.2A.B
.2A19.8B3.5BA2BA11B2.6B$9.13B70.8B7.4B5.A3.A20.2A3.B5.4B2AB2A11B3.6B$
8.14B70.9B5.4B3.3A5.3A18.A10.4B2A12B6.4B$7.15B70.5B.4B3.4B4.A9.A15.3A
12.B.3B.4B12.B2A2B$7.14B70.7B.4B.4B31.A19.4B14.2A.B2A$8.13B70.3B2A2B
2.7B51.4B18.BA.A$8.14B70.2B2AB4.5B51.B2AB22.A$9.12B71.6B3.5B50.3BA23.
2A$11.3B2A3B73.6B2.7B49.3A$12.BA2BA2B72.7B.4B.4B48.AB$14.2AB74.6B.4B
3.4B$92.9B5.4B$92.8B7.4B$91.8B9.4B$91.7B11.4B$82.2A7.6B13.4B$83.A6.7B
14.4B$83.A.AB3.7B15.4B$84.2AB2.8B16.4B$86.11B17.2B2A$86.11B18.2A2B$
86.11B19.BA2B$85.11B21.4B$86.7B.2B22.4B$86.11B22.4B$87.10B23.4B$87.
12B22.4B$88.13B21.4B$85.17B21.4B$84.18B22.4B$83.2B2A13B.B2A21.4B$84.B
2A6B.4B3.BA.A21.4B$77.2AB3.8B4.B8.A22.4B$77.BA2B2.6B15.2A22.4B$78.ABA
B.7B39.4B$79.2A2B.6B40.4B20.2A$80.9B42.4B17.2B2AB$81.8B43.4B16.4B$82.
8B43.4B15.6B$83.7B8.A35.4B15.5B$84.3BA2B6.3A36.4B14.6B$84.4BA2B4.A40.
4B13.7B$84.4BABA4.2A20.A19.4B12.6B$84.4BA3B.4B4.A15.3A12.B.3B.4B10.7B
$84.5BABA3B4.3A18.A10.4BA13B4.6B$84.7BA4B2.A20.2A3.B5.5B2A13B2.7B$84.
5BABA4B2.2A19.8B3.6B2A12B2.7B$85.4B2A5B3.B21.8B.6BA13B.9B$88.7B4.3B
19.14BA24B$87.8B3.6B16.11BABAB.2B2.20B4.B$86.9B2.10B11.11BABA3B8.19B.
B2A$85.23B3.2B2.19B11.19B2A$83.B.16B2A28BA2B12.17B.B$82.2A17B2A22B.5B
AB12.17B$82.2A43BABA4B11.17B$83.42B2A5BA2B8.2AB.15B$81.5B2.36B2.4BABA
B8.A.AB4.12B$81.2A6.5B5.13B.4B11.6B8.A9.11B$82.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B12.
2BA2B8.2A8.13B$79.3A12.2A15.4B14.A2BA18.12B$79.A14.A16.2A16.A2B20.10B
$95.3A14.A17.A2BA19.9B$97.A11.3A20.BA19.9B$109.A22.A20.9B$133.3A18.5B
$135.A18.4B$154.4B$153.4B$152.4B$151.4B$150.4B$149.4B$148.4B$147.4B$
146.4B$145.4B$144.4B$143.4B$142.4B$141.A3B$140.A3B$140.3A!
It wouldn't be much fun to build high-period rakes for two of these guns, but the task could be completed maybe a hundred times faster than solving all the startup conflicts in the other p152 guns.
Couldn't we use another glider from that gun and reflect it?
woomy on a vroomy

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7993
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by dvgrn » March 2nd, 2019, 2:11 pm

googoIpIex wrote:Couldn't we use another glider from that gun and reflect it?
Sure, that's slightly cheaper. Could be less of an improvement than you might expect, though, depending on how the reflectors work out -- you have to use reflectors that allow the color, the phase mod 8, and the absolute timing mod 152 to work out correctly.

That's mostly likely at least two reflectors, possibly three, so that's already about half or three-quarters of the cost of a second gun.

You could also try taking the two gliders from a Herschel loop, like the old p152 gun from Jason Summers' collection but preferably more Spartan:

Code: Select all

x = 126, y = 68, rule = B3/S23
31b2o7b2o$30bobo7b2o21b2o7b2o$28b3obobo27bobo7b2o$2b2o23bo5b2o25b3obob
o27bo$3bo23b2o30bo5b2o25b3o11bo$3bobo53b2o8b2o20bo14b3o$4b2o2b2o59b2o
20b2o16bo14bo$8b2o98b2o12b3o$121bo$60b2o3b2o44b2o8b2o$59bobo3b3o36bobo
$22bo36bo6bob2o3bo32bo$19b3o37b3o4bo7bo45b2o$15b2obo48b3o2b3o27bo3b2o
12b2o$15bo4bo81bobob2o$16b3o30bo55bo$48b3o$47b3obo$2b2o42b2o2b3o$bobo
16b2o25b2obo31b2o$bo18bobo25bo33b2o20b2o$2o20bo82bo$16b2o4b2o78b3o$16b
obo83bo$18bo23b2o63b2o$9b2o7b2o22bo31b2o32bo$9b2o32b3o28bo30b3o$45bo
29b3o27bo$77bo$2o$bo$o$2o123bo$123bobo$124b2o5$48bo$20bo27b3o29bo$18b
3o30bo28b3o32b2o$17bo32b2o31bo22b2o7b2o$17b2o63b2o23bo$23bo83bobo$21b
3o78b2o4b2o$20bo82bo20b2o$20b2o20b2o33bo25bobo18bo$42b2o31bob2o25b2o
16bobo$73b3o2b2o42b2o$74bob3o$75b3o$20bo55bo30b3o$18b2obobo81bo4bo$4b
2o12b2o3bo27b3o2b3o48bob2o$4b2o45bo7bo4b3o37b3o$19bo32bo3b2obo6bo36bo$
19bobo36b3o3bobo$3b2o8b2o44b2o3b2o$4bo$b3o12b2o98b2o$bo14bo16b2o20b2o
59b2o2b2o$17b3o14bo20b2o8b2o53bobo$19bo11b3o25b2o5bo30b2o23bo$31bo27bo
bob3o25b2o5bo23b2o$52b2o7bobo27bobob3o$52b2o7b2o21b2o7bobo$84b2o7b2o!
Or make a custom connection that guarantees that the timing is right -- Hersrch can be set up to do searches like that, and with the Spartan-only dataset it will find a fairly constructible option.

User avatar
simsim314
Posts: 1769
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by simsim314 » March 2nd, 2019, 7:37 pm

dvgrn wrote:To make a seed for that p154 gun that slsparse could compile, an enormous web of one-time turners would have to be added all around the gun
Maybe this could help:

Code: Select all

x = 100, y = 46, rule = LifeHistory
3$32.C$32.C.C23.C$32.2C25.C$57.3C8$18.2C$18.C.C52.2C$13.2C4.C41.2C10.
C$14.C47.C8.C.C$14.C.C14.C30.C.C6.2C6.C$15.2C3.2C8.C.C30.2C13.C.C$20.
C.C8.2C46.2C$21.C46.2C$36.2C30.C.C13.2C$28.2C6.C.C30.C6.2C6.C.C$27.C.
C8.C36.C.C8.C$27.C10.2C35.C10.2C$26.2C46.2C9$89.3C$43.2C44.C$42.2C46.
C$44.C!
dvgrn wrote:The definition of "Spartan" has recently been altered to mean "easily constructible by slow salvos"...
The remark has interesting historical notes, but the context I was using it wasn't truly referring to self construct spartant circuitry because there is no need in spratan circuitry in the context of breeders and puffers, and spartan meant simply constructible by breeders i.e. not made of some impossible to synthesize components. I borrowed the usage to show case you can construct P154 with glider and therefore use breeders to make puffer of such. Anyway now it's even simpler.

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dvgrn
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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by dvgrn » March 2nd, 2019, 9:21 pm

simsim314 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:To make a seed for that p154 gun that slsparse could compile, an enormous web of one-time turners would have to be added all around the gun
Maybe this could help...
Yup, that certainly makes things nicer. We could probably use some kind of programmatic help to automatically find a compatible 2sL splitter that can make each pair of gliders from one glider, along with a turner or two or three, and then make those two gliders from one glider via another splitter.

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
42.C$42.C.C$42.2C9$.C26.2C12.B$2.C25.C.C.B7.4B$3C20.2C4.C.3B3.9B$24.C
6.B.B.11B$24.C.CB2.11BC.2B$25.2CB.B2C7B.CBC.2B$27.2B.C.C6B2.2C.2B$27.
2B2.C2.7B3.2B$27.2B.2B2.10B.B2C$28.B5.4B2C3B2.BC.C$27.10BC.C8.C$24.B
2.9B.C.B8.2C$14.B2.2C3.4B.6B3.2C2.B$5.2C6.3B.C.9B$6.C6.2BC.C10B$6.C.C
B2.3B2C5B3.2B$7.2CB.B.8B.3B.2B2.3B$9.2B.B2.6B.BC2B.B3.2B$9.B.B2CB.6BC
.C.2B4.B$9.B2.CBC.7B2CB.B2C$10.2B.C.10B2.BC.C$9.11B.3B6.C$9.9B3.3B.C
4.2C21.2C$11.4B7.B.C.C25.2C$12.B12.2C27.C9$11.2C$12.2C$11.C!
Then it gets a little harder to start up three p22 guns at the right times to make a p154 gun, without the startup gliders getting in each other's way. But as long as the component p22 guns are moved far enough away from each other, it's not too bad.

Fair warning: My p152 examples above are useless, because I got confused halfway through -- what I should have built are Spartan p154 guns. There's a way to do p154 with two Silver reflectors plus some attachments, rather than four. That would be roughly the same construction cost as a single gun with a standard syringe in it.
simsim314 wrote:...there is no need in [Spartan] circuitry in the context of breeders and puffers, and spartan meant simply constructible by breeders i.e. not made of some impossible to synthesize components.
True enough. My point was just that if you want to actually build something with rakes, instead of just saying it can be done theoretically, you're often much better off with Spartan circuitry, because you'll end up with a rake that's much easier to build and a tenth of the size of what you'd end up with if you failed to choose your circuitry carefully. If you want a syringe, add 77 rakes, whereas a full Silver reflector only costs about half that much.

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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by simsim314 » March 3rd, 2019, 8:46 am

dvgrn wrote: We could probably use some kind of programmatic help to automatically find a compatible 2sL splitter
Basically what we want is drying sync salvo script. It's definitely part of the CA Studio agenda. As part of the studio every synthesizable component would be possible to dry out. You just need to provide synthesys for every component, and a drying mechanism that can convert G->Right timing G. And obviously a good inserter. The compiled results would not be optimized, probably will use some sort of clock inserters, but their power would be universality and abstraction layer. You will just take any construction and say "dry it out for me", and it will be done automatically. Think that in the studio this will be done as simply as placing a glider. The compilation from the studio to CGOL or any other CA will be a very complex job, but finite job, and you'll automatically get every construction done in the studio for free afterwards. I can't imagine now what is possible in the studio - but the cost in CGOL will be important. Hopefully studio will also be capable to compile into transistors, or at least some sub part of it (CGOL is possible to implement in transistors but it's not efficient).

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Re: A MSS Quadratic growth

Post by Entity Valkyrie » March 23rd, 2019, 6:05 am

googoIpIex wrote:I'm more worried about this:

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
3b2o5b2o$3b2o5bo$8bobo$8b2o$4b2o$4bobo$5bo3$14bo$11bo2b3o3b2o$4b5o2b3o
3bo2bo$2b3obob3o4b2obobo$bo4bo4b4obobo2b2o$b2ob2ob4o3bobob2obo$5bobobo
bobo2bo2bobo$5bobobo2bo2bob3ob2o$4b2obob4o6bobo$8bo4b6o2bo$10bo2bo2bo
4b2o$9b2o!
Remember in 2018 the 34P14 shuttle has been made? We don't need this anymore! The 34P14 shuttle can replace it!

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