Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » July 18th, 2019, 11:10 am

Ian07 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:The p4 spaceship synthesis text census seems to have the correct leading 1E+17 markers for these two objects, so they sort to the top instead of being banished to the end of the list with strange pseudo-object syntheses like xq4_163zzzzzzzzzzzyzym48e.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, because for me they're both placed at the bottom of the list with other pseudo-objects and their synthesis RLEs both say that they're pseudo-objects...
Drat, I failed to give the link that I was looking at -- p4 spaceship synthesis text census. Looks like I must have misidentified a similar apgcode in the top section. As you say, both of those objects are sorted to the bottom.

Looks like those objects must have gotten accidentally demoted to "pseudo" for some reason. Seems like a strange coincidence that those two *WSS-on-*WSS are the only ones with no recorded soups... The spider isn't similarly demoted, though, so maybe it's just something that happened in xq4. (?)

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by calcyman » July 18th, 2019, 11:43 am

dvgrn wrote:
Ian07 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:The p4 spaceship synthesis text census seems to have the correct leading 1E+17 markers for these two objects, so they sort to the top instead of being banished to the end of the list with strange pseudo-object syntheses like xq4_163zzzzzzzzzzzyzym48e.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, because for me they're both placed at the bottom of the list with other pseudo-objects and their synthesis RLEs both say that they're pseudo-objects...
Drat, I failed to give the link that I was looking at -- p4 spaceship synthesis text census. Looks like I must have misidentified a similar apgcode in the top section. As you say, both of those objects are sorted to the bottom.

Looks like those objects must have gotten accidentally demoted to "pseudo" for some reason. Seems like a strange coincidence that those two *WSS-on-*WSS are the only ones with no recorded soups... The spider isn't similarly demoted, though, so maybe it's just something that happened in xq4. (?)
Oh ... well ... this is embarrassing. :oops:

In each case, the only phase in which they interact, the HWSS just has its sparks (1 monomino and 1 domino) rearranged, and the apgsearch 'separate standard spaceships' routine, sss(), (which counts the number of cells of each valency) doesn't notice that it's not an ordinary HWSS. By the way, this shortcoming is present in every single version of apgsearch (including the old Python 2.7 Golly script).
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Ian07 » July 18th, 2019, 9:08 pm

dvgrn wrote: In the post quoted above I also mentioned the next higher Mersenne-prime oscillator, 2^86243-1, as a possible target. I didn't know that somebody had already posted one of those... in a comment on the Catagolue "pentadecathlon" page.

Why in Conway's name would someone hide the current record-breaking prime oscillator there? Anyway, here's the full pattern -- only 30K in macrocell format:
The same person posted this, along with a statement that they were working on a Gemini 4, in, of all places, the talk page for Conway's Game of Life on Wikipedia. It's since been reverted.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Ian07 » August 1st, 2019, 9:58 pm

The Pentadecathlon dictionary contains an entry for "croaker," a rotor which is similar to flutter (the griddle rotor) but in the shape of a toad. Does anyone know of any stable oscillators which use this?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » August 1st, 2019, 10:05 pm

The first example (in alphabetical order) on the wiki is 14P2.4 (it actually has 2):

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
.3A2$2A2.A.A$5.A$.A4.2A$2.DCD$3.CDC!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Ian07 » August 2nd, 2019, 6:46 pm

The spaceship list in the spaceship article on the wiki lists the ships 81P10H2V0 and 857P12H2V0, which (as far as I can tell) aren't in either jslife or the Golly pattern collection. Does anyone have a link to these?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » August 2nd, 2019, 7:33 pm

Ian07 wrote:The spaceship list in the spaceship article on the wiki lists the ships 81P10H2V0 and 857P12H2V0, which (as far as I can tell) aren't in either jslife or the Golly pattern collection. Does anyone have a link to these?
81P10H2V0 is either one of these isomers:

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 38, rule = B3/S23
22bo34bo$20b2ob2o30b2ob2o$19b3o32b3o$16b2o3bo29b2o3bo$16bo3bo30bo3bo2$
12bo3b3o28bo3b3o$11bobo32bobo$10bo2bo31bo2bo$12b2o33b2o$9bo2bo4bo26bo
2bo4bo$10b3o2bobo27b3o2bobo$15b3o32b3o$10bob4o29bob4o$9bo34bo$10bo34bo
$7bo2bobo29bo2bobo$7b2o33b2o$3b2o4bo28b2o4bo$2b3obobo28b3obobo$2bo34bo
$4b2o33b2o$4b2o33b2o2$b3o32b3o$3bo34bo$o3bo30bo3bo$o4bo29bo4bo$o34bo$
5o30b5o4$2b2o32b2o$bobo31bobo2$2bo33bo$2b3o31b3o!
source

I'm not sure about 857P12H2V0, maybe a variation of 861P12H2V0 here? Currently searching for an 857-cell one.

Code: Select all

x = 61, y = 153, rule = B3/S23
23b3o9b3o$22b5o7b5o$21bo5bo5bo5bo$21b4obo7bob4o$23b3o9b3o$23b3o9b3o3$
23b2obo7bob2o$25b2o7b2o$26bo7bo$26bo7bo$23b2obo7bob2o$22bo15bo$25bo9bo
$21bo17bo$21bobo13bobo$27b3ob3o$22bo4b3ob3o4bo$23b2ob3o3b3ob2o$26bo7bo
$28bo3bo$25bo2bo3bo2bo2$26b3o3b3o$27b2o3b2o2$27b2o3b2o$27b2o3b2o$23b3o
9b3o$26b2o5b2o$22bo3bo7bo3bo$26b3o3b3o$23b2obo2bobo2bob2o$28bo3bo$28b
2ob2o$23b2obo2bobo2bob2o$21bo4b2o5b2o4bo$21b2o2bo2b2ob2o2bo2b2o$22bo2b
o9bo2bo$22b2obo9bob2o$25bo9bo$22bo2bo9bo2bo$22bo2bo9bo2bo$28b2ob2o$23b
3o3bobo3b3o$25bobobobobobo$26b2obobob2o$29bobo$26bo7bo$23bobo2bo3bo2bo
bo$21b2obobobo3bobobob2o$24bobob2ob2obobo$20bo19bo$20bo2bo3b3ob3o3bo2b
o$21b2o15b2o2$23b3ob3ob3ob3o$23b3o2b2ob2o2b3o$20b3o2b2o7b2o2b3o$22bo2b
2o7b2o2bo$20b2o3b2o2bobo2b2o3b2o$28bo3bo$25bo9bo$23b3o9b3o$23b3o2bo3bo
2b3o$28bo3bo$27bo5bo$26b2o5b2o$25b3o5b3o$24b2o3bobo3b2o$24b2obobobobob
2o2$25bobo5bobo2$28bobobo$25b11o$24bo11bo$24bobobo3bobobo$25b3o5b3o$
28b2ob2o$29b3o2$25b2o7b2o$24bobo7bobo$25bo2b2ob2o2bo$27bo5bo2$27bobobo
bo2$25b2o7b2o$24bo2bo5bo2bo$24b2o9b2o$25b4o3b4o$26bo7bo$24bo3bo3bo3bo$
28bo3bo$25bo3bobo3bo$25bo2bo3bo2bo$25bo4bo4bo$26bo7bo2$30bo$4bo6bo37bo
6bo$2b2ob2o2b2ob2o14b5o14b2ob2o2b2ob2o$27bo5bo$28bobobo$29b3o$2b2ob2o
2b2ob2o16bo16b2ob2o2b2ob2o$2b2o2bo2bo2b2o9bo3b7o3bo9b2o2bo2bo2b2o$3b2o
2b2o2b2o9bob3o7b3obo9b2o2b2o2b2o$3bo8bo35bo8bo$b2o10b2o5bo2bo2bo7bo2bo
2bo5b2o10b2o$27b7o$o14bo2b2obo17bob2o2bo14bo$o2bo8bo2bo4b3o15b3o4bo2bo
8bo2bo$o14bo29bo14bo$bobo8bobo31bobo8bobo$3bo8bo35bo8bo$4bo6bo37bo6bo$
3b3o4b3o35b3o4b3o$4b2o4b2o14bo6bo15b2o4b2o$b2o10b2o10bobob2obobo11b2o
10b2o$b3o3b2o3b3o10b2o2b2o2b2o11b3o3b2o3b3o$2b2o3b2o3b2o15b2o16b2o3b2o
3b2o$3bo3b2o3bo35bo3b2o3bo$2b3o6b3o13b2o2b2o14b3o6b3o$27b2o2b2o$28b4o$
2b3o6b3o14bo2bo15b3o6b3o$b5o4b5o12bo4bo13b5o4b5o$o5bo2bo5bo11bo4bo12bo
5bo2bo5bo$bo3bo4bo3bo12bob2obo13bo3bo4bo3bo$28bo2bo$28bo2bo2$22bo14bo$
22b2o4bo2bo4b2o$22bo5b4o5bo$23b2o4b2o4b2o$24bo10bo$22bobo10bobo$23b5o
4b5o$25bo2b4o2bo$24bo4b2o4bo$28bo2bo$29b2o$26b2ob2ob2o2$25bo8bo$24b3o
6b3o$24bo2bo4bo2bo$23b2o10b2o!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Moosey » August 4th, 2019, 8:12 am

Last night I dreamt about CGoL-- something about a c/7 (simplified) ship involving copperheads and Corderships.
Obviously that could never work in practice but it was related to universal construction/computation so when I woke up (at 4 in the morning) I thought of a concept for a spaceship which could possibly prove all simplified orthogonal speeds < c/2, all simplified diagonal speeds <c/4 and theoretically all oblique speeds and slopes less than their speed limits, though one can get arbitrarily close to them.

Here's how it works.
Step 1. We start with a massive synthesizeable c/2 fleet capable of UCC stuff.
It might look like this:

Code: Select all

   .

.-----.  ->
With gliders flying from the front dot to the distant dot to the back dot where they get turned to signals on reburnable wire. At the front they are extracted somehow.

Step 1a.
The first group of gliders in the loop are instructions to wait a certain amount of time (determining the speed), make a UCC, put the gliders in it, and self-destruct.
Step 1b.
The fleet follows the instructions and we are left with a stable UCC.
Step 2a.
The second group of gliders is first to the UCC. These tell it how to wait a certain amount of time (still determining the speed), make the SS fleet, put the gliders in it, and self-destruct.

Now, we have two options:
1. Our ship is orthogonal:
Return to step 1a.
2. Our ship is diagonal or oblique:
Go to step 3a.
Step 3a:
The new fleet is traveling in a direction perpendicular to the first.
The third group of gliders are the first to the new fleet. These tell it how to wait a certain amount of time (determining speed and slope), make a UCC, put the Gs in it, and self-destruct.
Step 3b:
The fleet follows the instructions and we are left with a stable UCC.
Step 4a:
The fourth and final group of Gs are first to the UCC. They tell it to wait a certain amount of time (determining the speed and slope), make the SS fleet, put the Gs in it, and self-destruct.
Step 4b:
The UCC follows the instructions and makes the original fleet. Return to step 1a.


All in all, would this make a good basis for a project thread or is it too ambitious?

EDIT: I'm surprised nobody has responded in almost twelve hours.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » August 5th, 2019, 6:07 pm

Moosey wrote:All in all, would this make a good basis for a project thread or is it too ambitious?
In the same way that many mathematicians avoid evaluating purported proofs of Riemann's Hypothesis, basically out of sheer exhaustion... it's a lot of work to evaluate proposed UCC-based spaceship projects, just to try to figure out if there's anything new or improved over previously proposed designs. In what ways would your design outline be better than the existing blinker-puffer-based universal helix?

Moosey wrote:EDIT: I'm surprised nobody has responded in almost twelve hours.
<joke>Maybe that secret society finally got Dvgrn</joke>
Nah, I'm fine. Whenever they make an attempt, at worst they just get some other Dave Greene instead of me -- there are thousands of us. It's not a very competent secret society. I'll be taking another week offline, though, just to keep them off the trail.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Moosey » August 5th, 2019, 6:20 pm

dvgrn wrote:
Moosey wrote:All in all, would this make a good basis for a project thread or is it too ambitious?
In the same way that many mathematicians avoid evaluating purported proofs of Riemann's Hypothesis, basically out of sheer exhaustion... it's a lot of work to evaluate proposed UCC-based spaceship projects, just to try to figure out if there's anything new or improved over previously proposed designs. In what ways would your design outline be better than the existing blinker-puffer-based universal helix?
Oh, I didn't know about that.
I don't think my design would be superior except that it might have a smaller average deviation from average population. If even that. But that's not very much of a good reason.
dvgrn wrote:
Moosey wrote:EDIT: I'm surprised nobody has responded in almost twelve hours.
<joke>Maybe that secret society finally got Dvgrn</joke>
Nah, I'm fine. Whenever they make an attempt, at worst they just get some other Dave Greene instead of me -- there are thousands of us. It's not a very competent secret society. I'll be taking another week offline, though, just to keep them off the trail.
There are?
EDIT: a quick google search for "dave greene" reveals there indeed are.
EDIT: new question:
Are there any stable G crossovers?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by muzik » August 17th, 2019, 6:13 am

Are all non-still-life periodic objects with populations 16 and under also known to be synthesizable with 16 gliders or less?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by calcyman » August 17th, 2019, 6:19 am

muzik wrote:Are all non-still-life periodic objects with populations 16 and under also known to be synthesizable with 16 gliders or less?
I don't believe that the space of 16-cell patterns has been exhaustively searched. (Indeed, what's the current status? Paul Callahan searched all 10-cell patterns a long time ago, but that's the latest I heard on the subject.)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » August 17th, 2019, 9:46 am

Moosey wrote:EDIT: new question:
Are there any stable G crossovers?
What exactly is a "stable G crossover"?

At 43 ticks, Snarks are among the fastest-recovering stable conduits. With the right spacing, p43 glider streams can cross each other -- the lower limit for glider crossings is p38:

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o3$46bobo$46b2o$47bo2$11bo$12bo$10b3o3$38bo$36b2o$37b2o3$21b
o$19bobo$20b2o3$27bobo$27b2o$28bo!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Gustone » August 17th, 2019, 9:58 am

Why dont these rakes deserve to be in jslife?

Code: Select all

x = 137, y = 162, rule = B3/S23
97b2o$96b4o2$95b6o$96b4o2$95b2o2b2o$93b2obo2bob2o$96bo2bo3$97b2o$97b2o
2$94bobo2bobo$93bo2bo2bo2bo$93bo8bo9b2o$93bo8bo8bo2bo$93b2o6b2o7b2o2b
2o$95b6o9b2o2b2o$110bob2obo$112b2o$110bo4bo$109b2o4b2o3$112b2o$111bo2b
o$111bo2bo2$109b2o4b2o$16b2o2b2o86bo2bo2bo2bo$16b2o2b2o86bo2bo2bo2bo$
4bo2bo7b3o2b3o86bobo2bobo$4bo2bo7b3o2b3o9b4o$3bo4bo23bo2bo$3bo4bo6bo6b
o8b6o$3bo4bo6bo2b2o2bo$3bo4bo7b6o$2b3o2b3o20bo2b2o2bo$2bob4obo20bob4ob
o$3bo4bo9b2o10bobo2bobo$17bo2bo53bo2bo$17b4o53bo2bo$5b2o9b2o2b2o11b2o
38bo4bo$5b2o6bo2bo4bo2bo8b2o38bo4bo$5b2o9bo4bo51bo4bo$3bo4bo8b4o9b2o4b
2o35bo4bo$b3o4b3o2bo10bo5b3o2b3o34b3o2b3o$3o6b3o2bo8bo5bo2bo2bo2bo33bo
b4obo$2o8b2o17b2ob4ob2o34bo4bo$b10o7b2o10b8o$2b8o$4b4o8b3o56b2o$16bo
58b2o$17bo57b2o$73bo4bo$71b3o4b3o$70b3o6b3o$70b2o8b2o$71b10o$72b8o50b
2o2b2o$74b4o54b2o$132b2o$129bobo2bobo$78b2o49bo6bo$77bo2bo$77bo2bo48bo
6bo$76bo4bo48b2o2b2o$76bo4bo49b4o$77b4o$76b2o2b2o50b2o$76bo4bo49bo2bo$
76bo4bo$110b2o18bo4bo$110b2o17b2o4b2o$77b4o28bo2bo17bob2obo$78b2o29b4o
18b4o$108bob2obo18b2o$75b2o4b2o26bo2bo$74bo2bo2bo2bo$75b3o2b3o25b2o2b
2o$75b2o4b2o24bo6bo2$108bo4bo$109bo2bo$110b2o2$107b2o4b2o$106bo2bo2bo
2bo$107b2o4b2o$108bo4bo6$106b4o$106bo2bo$105b6o2$77bo2bo$77bo2bo23bo2b
2o2bo$76bo4bo22bob4obo$76bo4bo22bobo2bobo$76bo4bo$76bo4bo$75b3o2b3o24b
2o$75bob4obo24b2o$76bo4bo$104b2o4b2o$104b3o2b3o$78b2o23bo2bo2bo2bo$78b
2o23b2ob4ob2o$78b2o24b8o$76bo4bo$74b3o4b3o$73b3o6b3o$73b2o8b2o$74b10o$
75b8o20b4o$77b4o$103bo2bo$102bob2obo$102bo4bo2$80b4o18bo4bo$80bo2bo18b
2o2b2o$79b6o17b6o$103bo2bo$104b2o$78bo2b2o2bo18b2o$78bob4obo$78bobo2bo
bo15b2o4b2o$101b2o4b2o$101b2o4b2o$81b2o$81b2o20bo2bo2$78b2o4b2o$78b3o
2b3o$77bo2bo2bo2bo11bo2bo$77b2ob4ob2o11bo2bo$78b8o11bo4bo$97bo4bo$97bo
4bo$97bo4bo$96b3o2b3o$96bob4obo$97bo4bo3$99b2o$99b2o$99b2o$97bo4bo$95b
3o4b3o$94b3o6b3o$94b2o8b2o$95b10o$96b8o$98b4o!

Code: Select all

x = 127, y = 162, rule = B3/S23
97b2o$96b4o2$95b6o$96b4o2$95b2o2b2o$93b2obo2bob2o$96bo2bo3$97b2o$97b2o
2$94bobo2bobo$93bo2bo2bo2bo$93bo8bo9b2o$93bo8bo8bo2bo$93b2o6b2o7b2o2b
2o$95b6o9b2o2b2o$110bob2obo$112b2o$110bo4bo$109b2o4b2o3$112b2o$111bo2b
o$111bo2bo2$109b2o4b2o$16b2o2b2o86bo2bo2bo2bo$16b2o2b2o86bo2bo2bo2bo$
4bo2bo7b3o2b3o86bobo2bobo$4bo2bo7b3o2b3o9b4o$3bo4bo23bo2bo84b2o2b2o$3b
o4bo6bo6bo8b6o85b2o$3bo4bo6bo2b2o2bo99b2o$3bo4bo7b6o97bobo2bobo$2b3o2b
3o20bo2b2o2bo81bo6bo$2bob4obo20bob4obo$3bo4bo9b2o10bobo2bobo81bo6bo$
17bo2bo53bo2bo42b2o2b2o$17b4o53bo2bo43b4o$5b2o9b2o2b2o11b2o38bo4bo$5b
2o6bo2bo4bo2bo8b2o38bo4bo43b2o$5b2o9bo4bo51bo4bo42bo2bo$3bo4bo8b4o9b2o
4b2o35bo4bo$b3o4b3o2bo10bo5b3o2b3o34b3o2b3o40bo4bo$3o6b3o2bo8bo5bo2bo
2bo2bo33bob4obo39b2o4b2o$2o8b2o17b2ob4ob2o34bo4bo41bob2obo$b10o7b2o10b
8o83b4o$2b8o112b2o$4b4o8b3o56b2o$16bo58b2o$17bo57b2o$73bo4bo$71b3o4b3o
$70b3o6b3o$70b2o8b2o$71b10o$72b8o$74b4o3$78b2o$77bo2bo$77bo2bo$76bo4bo
$76bo4bo$77b4o$76b2o2b2o$76bo4bo$76bo4bo$110b2o$110b2o$77b4o28bo2bo$
78b2o29b4o$108bob2obo$75b2o4b2o26bo2bo$74bo2bo2bo2bo$75b3o2b3o25b2o2b
2o$75b2o4b2o24bo6bo2$108bo4bo$109bo2bo$110b2o2$107b2o4b2o$106bo2bo2bo
2bo$107b2o4b2o$108bo4bo6$106b4o$106bo2bo$105b6o2$77bo2bo$77bo2bo23bo2b
2o2bo$76bo4bo22bob4obo$76bo4bo22bobo2bobo$76bo4bo$76bo4bo$75b3o2b3o24b
2o$75bob4obo24b2o$76bo4bo$104b2o4b2o$104b3o2b3o$78b2o23bo2bo2bo2bo$78b
2o23b2ob4ob2o$78b2o24b8o$76bo4bo$74b3o4b3o$73b3o6b3o$73b2o8b2o$74b10o$
75b8o20b4o$77b4o$103bo2bo$102bob2obo$102bo4bo2$80b4o18bo4bo$80bo2bo18b
2o2b2o$79b6o17b6o$103bo2bo$104b2o$78bo2b2o2bo18b2o$78bob4obo$78bobo2bo
bo15b2o4b2o$101b2o4b2o$101b2o4b2o$81b2o$81b2o20bo2bo2$78b2o4b2o$78b3o
2b3o$77bo2bo2bo2bo11bo2bo$77b2ob4ob2o11bo2bo$78b8o11bo4bo$97bo4bo$97bo
4bo$97bo4bo$96b3o2b3o$96bob4obo$97bo4bo3$99b2o$99b2o$99b2o$97bo4bo$95b
3o4b3o$94b3o6b3o$94b2o8b2o$95b10o$96b8o$98b4o!
(p830)
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Moosey
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Moosey » August 17th, 2019, 10:07 am

I think the most recent update to jslife is older than those rakes. I may be wrong.

EDIT:There was some discussion of this on this thread, but I never got a good enough response in my opinion-- can someone with bellman or some other similar utility see if there is a mechanism for replacing the block (using the surplus G) to make a CC snark?

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
15.2A$15.2A4$24.B$23.3B$23.4B$24.4B$25.4B$26.4B$27.4B$28.4B$29.4B$30.
4B$17.A13.4B$16.A.A13.4B$17.A.A13.4B$3A6.2A3.3A2.3A12.4B$2.A6.2A2.A3.
2A3.A12.4B$.A11.A.2A2.3A14.4B$14.A2.A.A17.4B$16.A.A$17.A!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by testitemqlstudop » August 17th, 2019, 6:51 pm

Can't we highway-rob the extra G into a block factory?

Of course, there's the repeat time...

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Moosey » August 17th, 2019, 6:59 pm

testitemqlstudop wrote:Can't we highway-rob the extra G into a block factory?

Of course, there's the repeat time...
It also needs to be small; this isn't some "in theory we could do a huge thing," question; it's a "are there small solutions" question.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » August 17th, 2019, 8:49 pm

Moosey wrote:EDIT:There was some discussion of this on this thread, but I never got a good enough response in my opinion-- can someone with bellman or some other similar utility see if there is a mechanism for replacing the block (using the surplus G) to make a CC snark?
Polite request for people asking this kind of question: please take the trouble to link to the previous discussion (starting here and ending here, in this case). Otherwise however many people are interested in the question will separately have to do the exact same search.

Posts asking people to run Bellman / CatForce / ptbsearch / catfind / Guam's CollisionsSearch on your behalf will generally run into a serious problem: usually nobody will bother to respond to the message, let alone setting up a search utility and running your search. The time investment you're asking for is not measured in minutes. It might be hours, but more likely it's days, weeks, or months.

Every now and then someone definitely does make a great suggestion along these lines that leads to a new discovery. But it's generally really useful to spend a lot of time running search utilities yourself, before trying to make a lot of these suggestions. Otherwise you just plain aren't likely to have a good sense of whether a search is vaguely plausible vs. near-hopeless.

As mentioned in the previous discussion, it's definitely not impossible that some lucky catalyst might throw a block back to exactly the right position. However, apparently everybody reading that discussion decided that, in their subjective judgment based on collective previous experience about this kind of search, the odds of success were so low that it wasn't anywhere near worth the effort to run the search. The few people that spend time running this kind of search will usually have their own educated guesses about the best places to look, and will probably already be using up whatever CPU time they have available, looking in those places.

You're certainly free to come up with your own ideas, but if no one else shows any interest in them, bringing up the same question again probably won't change anyone's mind. The way to prove everyone wrong would be to run the search yourself, and actually find something.

In this case, your estimate of the available space to add catalysts is much too optimistic. It's more like this --
x = 45, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
19.2D$15.4D5.2A$14.3D7.2A$13.3D9.6B$12.3D9.8B$11.4D8.4B2.4B$11.4D7.4B
4.4B$11.4D6.4B6.4B$11.4D5.4B8.4B$11.4D4.4B10.4B$12.3D3.4B12.4B$13.2D
2.4B14.4B$10.2D4.4B16.4B$9.3D3.4B18.4B$8.3D3.4B20.4B$7.3D3.4B22.4B$6.
3D3.4B7.3BAB12.4B$5.3D3.4B9.BABAB12.4B$10.4B5.B2.2B2.A.A$4.D4.3AB5.2A
B.B3A2.3A$11.A6.2A2BAB2.2A3.A$2.D7.A8.B.BA.2A2.3A$22.BA2.A.A$D24.A.A$
26.A!

#C [[ THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 2 PAUSE 3 AUTOSTART GPS 30 T 86 PAUSE 3 "Can't start catalyzing\nmuch before this time" T 87 "" LOOP 200 ]]
-- because you pretty much have to wait until the catalyst is close to actually interacting with the pi heptomino around T=85. Otherwise your hypothetical added catalyst will very likely change the reaction in a way that

1) fails to produce the output glider, and/or
2) causes the pi-to-2G catalyst to fail catastrophically.

There's very limited potential for interaction with the dying sparks up at the top, and if you add stuff over on the left it will have to throw a block almost ten cells to the right, without leaving any other mess. We don't have a whole lot of successful search results that look anything like that.

Also, this whole mechanism is fairly big and awkward and bulky and slow in any case. By the time you're done adding catalysts you might not actually have anything that's terribly useful. There's still a lot of hope that there's something small and nearly Spartan out there to be found, so that's where people are likely to spend the most time looking.

E.g., a fresh search along these lines (another of your recent re-suggestions) might be a lot more likely to produce a small fast-recovering CC reflector -- possibly even one that's cheap to construct and breaks new ground in self-constructing circuitry.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by simsim314 » August 19th, 2019, 3:41 pm

Given a still life or oscillator in golly, I want to get its:

1. Census code.
2. Frequency in census.
3*. It's synthesys in Shinjuku.

I remember calcyman posted the code to do this, but can't find it now.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » August 19th, 2019, 4:50 pm

simsim314 wrote:Given a still life or oscillator in golly, I want to get its:

1. Census code.
2. Frequency in census.
3*. [Its synthesis] in Shinjuku.

I remember calcyman posted the code to do this, but can't find it now.
By "census code" do you mean the object's apgcode? A starting place is biggiemac's script, which will take you to a Catagolue page containing your #1 and #3.

Quite possibly calcyman posted code somewhere to find census frequency, but if so I don't remember it, and at the moment I can't find it either. Failing that, if biggiemac's script gives you an apgcode of, say, xs17_025ic826z6511, you could check the relevant textcensus and calculate frequencies based on the number of occurrences given there.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by bprentice » August 23rd, 2019, 3:54 pm

Is any member of this forum interested in exploring partitioned cellular automata (PCA) or reversible partitioned cellular automata (RPCA) on a square grid?

Brian Prentice

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Moosey » August 24th, 2019, 11:11 am

Are there any edgy p9 domino sparkers for this?

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$bo2bo$2o$2o9b2o$3o8bo$2o7bobo$2b2o2bo2b2o$7bo$4bo2bo$7bo$2b2o2bo
2bo$2o7bo$3o$2o$2o$bo2bo$2b2o!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by danny » August 28th, 2019, 11:04 am

Moosey wrote:Are there any edgy p9 domino sparkers for this?

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$bo2bo$2o$2o9b2o$3o8bo$2o7bobo$2b2o2bo2b2o$7bo$4bo2bo$7bo$2b2o2bo
2bo$2o7bo$3o$2o$2o$bo2bo$2b2o!
What's stopping you from mirroring the eater, or mirroring the whole thing? (This is known, by the way)

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$bo2bo$2o$2o9b2o$3o8bo$2o7bobo$2b2o2bo2b2o$7bo$4bo2bo$7bo$2b2o2bo
2b2o$2o7bobo$3o8bo$2o9b2o$2o$bo2bo$2b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2b2o10b2o$bo2bo8bo2bo$2o14b2o$2o14b2o$3o12b3o$2o14b2o$2b2o2bo4bo2b2o$
7bo2bo$4bo2bo2bo2bo$7bo2bo$2b2o2bo4bo2b2o$2o14b2o$3o12b3o$2o14b2o$2o
14b2o$bo2bo8bo2bo$2b2o10b2o!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Moosey » August 28th, 2019, 3:02 pm

danny wrote:
Moosey wrote:Are there any edgy p9 domino sparkers for this?

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$bo2bo$2o$2o9b2o$3o8bo$2o7bobo$2b2o2bo2b2o$7bo$4bo2bo$7bo$2b2o2bo
2bo$2o7bo$3o$2o$2o$bo2bo$2b2o!
What's stopping you from mirroring the eater, or mirroring the whole thing? (This is known, by the way)
I knew about that, but I wanted to know if there were any other stabilizations. (I knew about those known stabilizations, by the way)
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Re: Thread for acidic questions

Post by GUYTU6J » August 31st, 2019, 1:30 pm

How much CO2 does a computer emit for apgsearching one soup in B3S23/C1 on average? And how much energy does it cost?
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Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B2kn3-ekq4i/S23ijkqr4eikry
2bo$2o$o$obo$b2o!

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