Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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Kazyan
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Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Kazyan » December 31st, 2014, 11:34 pm

The p30 and p46 guns based on the Queen Bee and Twin Bees shuttles are well-known and operate on the same principle--react the debris from the shuttle byproducts to create escaping gliders, and stabilize the shuttles on the other ends. Is it possible to use a pre-pulsar shuttle in the same way?

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
6bo7bo$5bobo5bobo$6bo7bo7$7bo5bo$6b3o3b3o$6b3o3b3o$2b2o22bo$bobo12b2o
7bobo$bo14b3o7bo$2o5b2o7b2o$7b2o3$11b2o3b2o$11b2o3b3o7bo$16b2o7bobo$
26bo2$14b2o$15bo$12b3o$12bo!
This one is obviously bulkier than the other shuttles, but it's p29, and it looks like one of the tub pairs could be removed to provide an interface for two shuttles to interact. If gliders could escape, we'd have a small p29 gun.

Apologies if this has already been explored/solved, but I haven't found any references to this idea before.
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SuperSupermario24
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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by SuperSupermario24 » January 1st, 2015, 2:45 pm

According to the wiki, true p29 glider guns have not yet been found, so I think this idea is new. Hmm...

Code: Select all

bobo2b3o2b2o2bo3bobo$obobobo3bo2bobo3bobo$obobob2o2bo2bobo3bobo$o3bobo3bo2bobobobo$o3bob3o2b2o3bobo2bo!

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biggiemac
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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by biggiemac » January 1st, 2015, 5:08 pm

I bet it's already been looked into. I found a couple alternate stabilizations using copies of the oscillator, but even turning the lower of the two into a gun would involve using a catalyst in place of the tub to release a glider, which is no different from the situation with only one p29 shuttle.

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 76, rule = B3/S23
34bo7bo$6bo7bo18bobo5bobo$5bobo5bobo18bo7bo$6bo7bo6$35bo5bo$7bo5bo20b
3o3b3o$6b3o3b3o19b3o3b3o$6b3o3b3o30b2o$2b2o27b2o12bobo$bobo12b2o12b3o
14bo$bo14b3o12b2o7b2o5b2o$2o5b2o7b2o22b2o$7b2o2$31b2o3b2o$11b2o3b2o12b
3o3b2o$11b2o3b3o12b2o$16b2o2$33b2o$14b2o17bo$15bo18b3o$12b3o21bo$12bo
13$6bo7bo$5bobo5bobo$6bo7bo5$34bo7bo$33bobo5bobo$7bo5bo20bo7bo$6b3o3b
3o$6b3o3b3o$2b2o22bo$bobo12b2o7bobo$bo14b3o7bo$2o5b2o7b2o$7b2o26bo5bo$
34b3o3b3o$34b3o3b3o$11b2o3b2o27b2o$11b2o3b3o12b2o12bobo$16b2o12b3o14bo
$31b2o7b2o5b2o$40b2o$14b2o$15bo$12b3o16b2o3b2o$12bo9bo7b3o3b2o$21bobo
7b2o$22bo2$33b2o$33bo$34b3o$36bo!
A tiny stable TL-predecessor->glider reaction would make a gun here trivial, which makes me inclined to believe no such reaction exists..
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

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calcyman
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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by calcyman » January 1st, 2015, 7:57 pm

A tiny stable TL-predecessor->glider reaction would make a gun here trivial, which makes me inclined to believe no such reaction exists..
Hmm, you can coax a p29-generated pre-TL through a still-life and out the other end. Here are two large p29 oscillators playing a game of flip-flop with a loaf:

Code: Select all

x = 127, y = 98, rule = B3/S23
79b2o3b2o19b2o3b2o$78bo2bobo2bo17bo2bobo2bo$74b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o9b2o3b2o
3b2o3b2o$74bo15bo9bo15bo$71b2obo15bob2o3b2obo15bob2o$69bo2bob2o13b2obo
5bob2o13b2obo2bo$69b2obo5b3o3b3o5bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o5bob2o$72bo5bobo3bobo
5bobobobo5bobo3bobo5bo$72b2o4b3o3b3o4b2obobob2o4b3o3b3o4b2o$95bo3$91bo
7bo$90bobo5bobo$91bo7bo$78bo33bo$77bobo31bobo$78bo33bo$86bo4b2o5b2o4bo
$85bobo3b3o3b3o3bobo$86bo4b2o5b2o4bo$76b2o2b2o27b2o2b2o$76bo2bobo27bob
o2bo$20b2o3b2o19b2o3b2o25b2o31b2o$19bo2bobo2bo17bo2bobo2bo25bo31bo$15b
2o3b2o3b2o3b2o9b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o21bobo27bobo$15bo15bo9bo15bo22b2o27b2o$
12b2obo15bob2o3b2obo15bob2o25bo4b2o5b2o4bo$10bo2bob2o13b2obo5bob2o13b
2obo2bo22bobo3b3o3b3o3bobo$10b2obo19bo2bo2bo19bob2o23bo4b2o5b2o4bo$13b
o19bobobobo19bo$13b2o5bo5bo5b2obobob2o5bo5bo5b2o$19bobo3bobo8bo8bobo3b
obo60bo$18bo3bobo3bo15bo3bobo3bo16b2o3b2o35bobob2o2b2o$19bobo3bobo17bo
bo3bobo17b2o2bo2bo33bo2bobo2bobo$20bo5bo5bo7bo5bo5bo15bo6b3o35b3o2bobo
$31bobo5bobo26b7o5b2o4bo4b2o5b2o4bo4b2o5b3ob2o$32bo7bo34bo3b3o3bobo3b
3o3b3o3bobo3b3o3bo5bo3b2o$19bo33bo16b6o4b2o4bo4b2o5b2o4bo4b2o4b6o3bobo
$18bobo31bobo9b2o3bo6b2o35b2o6b4o$19bo33bo10bo4bo2b4o2bo33bo2b6o4bo$
26b3o2bo9bo2b3o18b3obobo4b2o35b2o5bob3o$25bo2bo3bo7bo3bo2bo19bobobo2b
2o38bo2bo3b2o$8b2o16b3o2bo9bo2b3o21bo2bobobob3o34bobobo$4b2obobo7b2o2b
2o27b2o2b2o15bobobobo2bo30b2obo2bo$3bobobo9bo2bobo27bobo2bo13bobob2o3b
2o6bo4b2o5b2o4bo6bob2o9b2o$3bo3b2o10b2o31b2o15b2obo12bobo3b3o3b3o3bobo
14b2obobo$b2o2bo14bo31bo12bo6bo13bo4b2o5b2o4bo15b2obo$o2b6o3b2ob2o3bob
o27bobo3b2ob2o3bobo5bob2o4b2o27b2o13bo$2o6bo4bob2o4b2o27b2o4b2obo4bo2b
o3b2ob2o3bobo27bobo6b3ob2obo$5b3o5bo12b3o2bo9bo2b3o12bo5b2o12bo31bo5bo
3b2o2bo$5bo4b2obo11bo2bo3bo7bo3bo2bo11bob2o15b2o31b2o5b2o4bo$2b2obo4bo
bob2o3b2o5b3o2bo9bo2b3o5b2o3b2obobo13bo2bobo27bobo2bo4bob3o$2b2ob2o5bo
bobobo2bo29bo2bobobobo15b2o2b2o27b2o2b2o4bobo$9bo2bobobob3o31b3obobobo
2bo22bo4b2o5b2o4bo15bo$8bobo2b3o41b3o2bobo20bobo3b3o3b3o3bobo$6b3obobo
4b2o35b2o4bobob3o19bo4b2o5b2o4bo$5bo4bo2b4o2bo33bo2b4o2bo4bo10bo33bo$
5b2o3bo6b2o35b2o6bo3b2o9bobo31bobo$11b6o9b3o2bo9bo2b3o9b6o16bo33bo$16b
o8bo2bo3bo7bo3bo2bo8bo34bo7bo$9b7o10b3o2bo9bo2b3o10b7o26bobo5bobo$9bo
6b3o35b3o6bo27bo7bo$12b2o2bo2bo33bo2bo2b2o$12b2o3b2o35b2o3b2o$95bo$72b
2o4b3o3b3o4b2obobob2o4b3o3b3o4b2o$72bo5bobo3bobo5bobobobo5bobo3bobo5bo
$26b3o2bo9bo2b3o22b2obo5b3o3b3o5bo2bo2bo5b3o3b3o5bob2o$25bo2bo3bo7bo3b
o2bo21bo2bob2o13b2obo5bob2o13b2obo2bo$26b3o2bo9bo2b3o24b2obo15bob2o3b
2obo15bob2o$21b2o27b2o22bo15bo9bo15bo$20bobo27bobo21b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o9b
2o3b2o3b2o3b2o$20bo31bo25bo2bobo2bo17bo2bobo2bo$19b2o31b2o25b2o3b2o19b
2o3b2o$17bo2bobo27bobo2bo$17b2o2b2o27b2o2b2o$26b3o2bo9bo2b3o$25bo2bo3b
o7bo3bo2bo$26b3o2bo9bo2b3o$19bo33bo$18bobo31bobo$19bo33bo$32bo7bo$31bo
bo5bobo$20bo5bo5bo7bo5bo5bo$19bobo3bobo17bobo3bobo$18bo3bobo3bo15bo3bo
bo3bo$19bobo3bobo8bo8bobo3bobo$13b2o5bo5bo5b2obobob2o5bo5bo5b2o$13bo
19bobobobo19bo$10b2obo19bo2bo2bo19bob2o$10bo2bob2o13b2obo5bob2o13b2obo
2bo$12b2obo15bob2o3b2obo15bob2o$15bo15bo9bo15bo$15b2o3b2o3b2o3b2o9b2o
3b2o3b2o3b2o$19bo2bobo2bo17bo2bobo2bo$20b2o3b2o19b2o3b2o!
And it's conceivable that it might be possible to coax a glider out of one of these drifter signals.
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SuperSupermario24
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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by SuperSupermario24 » January 1st, 2015, 10:07 pm

biggiemac wrote:A tiny stable TL-predecessor->glider reaction would make a gun here trivial, which makes me inclined to believe no such reaction exists..
I'm probably mistaken about what you mean exactly by "tiny stable TL-predecessor->glider reaction" but I found this.

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o7b2o$9b2o$2b3o$2bobo$2b3o!

Code: Select all

bobo2b3o2b2o2bo3bobo$obobobo3bo2bobo3bobo$obobob2o2bo2bobo3bobo$o3bobo3bo2bobobobo$o3bob3o2b2o3bobo2bo!

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codeholic
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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 10:19 pm

SuperSupermario24 wrote:I'm probably mistaken about what you mean exactly by "tiny stable TL-predecessor->glider reaction" but I found this.
I bet, biggiemac meant a TL-predecessor->glider reaction assisted by a stable catalyst. In your reaction blocks are expendable.
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SuperSupermario24
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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by SuperSupermario24 » January 1st, 2015, 10:38 pm

codeholic wrote:I bet, biggiemac meant a TL-predecessor->glider reaction assisted by a stable catalyst. In your reaction blocks are expendable.
Yeah, I kind of figured. Hmm...

Code: Select all

bobo2b3o2b2o2bo3bobo$obobobo3bo2bobo3bobo$obobob2o2bo2bobo3bobo$o3bobo3bo2bobobobo$o3bob3o2b2o3bobo2bo!

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Sokwe » January 2nd, 2015, 1:17 am

I think there has been some searching in this direction, but I don't think there has been much progress. On a somewhat related note, here are all of the pre-pulsar shuttle mechanisms that I'm aware of (sorted by number of generations for the push and distance of the push):

Code: Select all

x = 656, y = 373, rule = B3/S23
485b2o7b2o$485bobo5bobo$480b2ob2o2bo5bo2b2ob2o$481bobo3b2o3b2o3bobo$
481bo2bo4bobo4bo2bo$479b2obobob2obobob2obobob2o$480bobo2b2obo3bob2o2bo
bo$50b2o427bo2bo2bo9bo2bo2bo$49bo2bo2b2o422bobob3obo5bob3obobo149bo$
50b2o2bobo423b2o4bo7bo4b2o150bo$5b2o4b2o10b2obo25b2o428b3obo7bob3o152b
o$6bo5bo10bob2o25bo355b2o7b2o44b2o4b2o7b4o17b4o7b2o4b2o132b2o$5bo5bo
15b2o20b2obo6bo286b2o5b2obo14bob2o32bo2bo5bo2bo43bobo4bo3b2obo25bob2o
3bo4bobo130bo$5b2o4b2o14bo21bo2bob2o3b2o286bo5bob2o14b2obo25bo5bobobo
5bobobo5bo32b2o4bo3bo3bobobobo6bo7bo6bobobobo3bo3bo4b2o125bo4bo$28bo
22b2ob2o3bo286bo4b2o16b2o28b2o4b3obo7bob3o4b2o31bobo2bob2o2b4o2bobobo
2bob2o7b2obo2bobobo2b4o2b2obo2bobo125bo$5b2o4b2o14b2o317b2o3bo18bo27bo
b2o3b3o11b3o3b2obo27bo4b4obob2o4bobo2bo21bo2bobo4b2obob4o4bo124b3o$6bo
5bo3b2obo3b2obo325bo16bo27b3o2bo21bo2b3o26b5o6bo3b3o2bo4bobo13bobo4bo
2b3o3bo6b5o$5bo5bo4bob2o3bob2o319b2o3b2o16b2o28bobobo19bobobo33bo2b2ob
5o3b2o4b3o13b3o4b2o3b5ob2o2bo$5b2o4b2o14b2o22b2ob2o3bo287bo5b2obo5b2ob
o5bob2o25bobobo17bobobo29b2o2bo2bobobo5bob2o4b2o15b2o4b2obo5bobobo2bo
2b2o128b3o$27bo21bo2bob2o3b2o285bo6bob2o5bob2o5b2obo26bo2b3o13b3o2bo
30bo2bob3o3bo2b2o3b2o4b3o13b3o4b2o3b2o2bo3b3obo2bo71b2obo6b2obo14b2obo
25bobo$5b2o4b2o15bo20b2obo6bo286b2o3b2o4b2o16b2o25b2obo3b3o3b3o3bob2o
33b2ob3o2bo4bobobob2obobo3b3o3b3o3bobob2obobobo4bo2b3ob2o73bob2o6bob2o
14bob2o25b3o$6bo5bo14b2o23bo298bo5bo18bo26b2o4bobo3bobo4b2o33b3o7bo3bo
bo2bobob2o4bobo3bobo4b2obobo2bobo3bo7b3o76b2o2b2o4b2o10b2o$5bo5bo11b2o
bo25b2o292b2o4bo5bo16bo27bo5b3o3b3o5bo33bo8b2ob2ob3o11b3o3b3o11b3ob2ob
2o8bo76bo3bo5bo11bo$5b2o4b2o10bob2o23b2o2bobo290bo3b2o4b2o16b2o76b2o3b
2o7bo45bo7b2o3b2o73bo3bo5bo11bo$49bo2bo2b2o289bo6b2obo14bob2o78bo2bobo
3b2obobob2o39b2obobob2o3bobo2bo72b2o2b2o4b2o10b2o29b3o$50b2o294b2o5bob
2o14b2obo80b2o2bo2bob2obobo41bobob2obo2bo2b2o70b2obo4bo5bo4b2obo5b2obo
25bobo$458b2o7bobo41bobo7b2o73bob2o5bo5bo3bob2o5bob2o25b3o$467b2o43b2o
86b2o2b2o4b2o10b2o4b2o$600bo3bo5bo11bo5bo$601bo3bo5bo11bo5bo19b3o$600b
2o2b2o4b2o10b2o4b2o17bo$596b2obo6b2obo14b2obo19bo4bo$596bob2o6bob2o14b
ob2o20bo$650b2o$651bo$651bo$651bo21$506bobo21bobo$504b3obo21bob3o$503b
o3b2o21b2o3bo$460b2o7b2o32b3o27b3o$2o5b2obo12b2obo30bo5bo395bo2bo5bo2b
o35bo23bo$bo5bob2o12bob2o29b3o3b3o393bob2obo3bob2obo30b3o2bo21bo2b3o$o
10b2o14b2o314b2obo6b2obo14bob2o78bo5bo2bobobobo2bo5bo24bo2bob2o21b2obo
2bo$2o9bo15bo315bob2o6bob2o14b2obo77bobo5bo3bobo3bo5bobo23b2obobo23bob
ob2o$12bo15bo318b2o2b2o4b2o10b2o81bo2bob3o3b2ob2o3b3obo2bo26bob2o7b2o
3b2o7b2obo$2o9b2o14b2o28b2o3b2o283bo3bo5bo12bo40b2o3b2o32b2obobobo15bo
bobob2o24bo10bobobobo10bo$bo5b2obo5b2obo3b2obo24bo6bo3bo6bo278bo3bo5bo
10bo41bobobobo31bobobobo19bobobobo24b3o9bobo9b3o$o6bob2o5bob2o3bob2o
23b2o3bo9bo3b2o276b2o2b2o4b2o10b2o27b2o13bobo13b2o18bo2bo25bo2bo27bo7b
2ob2o7bo$2o3b2o20b2o22bo3b2o7b2o3bo273b2obo4bo5bo4b2obo5bob2o23b2obo
10b2ob2o10bob2o17b2obo9b3o3b3o9bob2o23b2o23b2o$5bo21bo315bob2o5bo5bo3b
ob2o5b2obo27bo23bo22bob3o2bo4bobo3bobo4bo2b3obo20b2obob2o21b2obob2o$2o
4bo21bo312b2o8b2o4b2o16b2o22bo29bo17bo2bo4bo5b3o3b3o5bo4bo2bo18b2obobo
2bo17bo2bobob2o$bo3b2o20b2o312bo9bo5bo18bo23bob2o21b2obo18b2obob2o23b
2obob2o21bo4bo4b3o3b3o4bo4bo$o6b2obo12b2obo24bo3b2o7b2o3bo272bo9bo5bo
16bo26b2o6b3o3b3o6b2o23bobo25bobo24bo9bobo3bobo9bo$2o5bob2o12bob2o23b
2o3bo9bo3b2o270b2o8b2o4b2o16b2o33bobo3bobo31bobo25bobo25b2o7b3o3b3o7b
2o$51bo6bo3bo6bo273b2obo6b2obo14bob2o35b3o3b3o32bo27bo$57b2o3b2o279bob
2o6bob2o14b2obo4$56b3o3b3o$57bo5bo30$343b2obo6b2obo14bob2o$343bob2o6bo
b2o14b2obo$347b2o8b2o10b2o$347bo9bo12bo32bo5bo$348bo9bo10bo32b3o3b3o$
347b2o8b2o10b2o$343b2obo6b2obo5b2obo5bob2o23b2o13b2o$343bob2o6bob2o5bo
b2o5b2obo23b2o13b2o$341b2o8b2o22b2o$341bo9bo24bo25b3o3b3o$342bo9bo22bo
27bo5bo$341b2o8b2o22b2o$343b2obo6b2obo14bob2o$343bob2o6bob2o14b2obo2$
56b3o3b3o72b3o3b3o$56bobo3bobo66b3o3bobo3bobo3b3o92b3o3b3o$b2o3b2o3b2o
10b2obo29b3o3b3o38b2o5b2o25b3o3b3o63b3o3b3o26bobo3bobo$2bo3b2o3b2o10bo
b2o25b2o48bobo5b2o5b2o9b2o23b2o22b3o3b3o23bobo3bobo26b3o3b3o$bo25b2o
22bobo12b3o22b2o7b3o14bo9bobo23bobo21bobo3bobo23b3o3b3o$b2o3b2o3b2o14b
o23bo14bobo15b2o5b2o6bo3bo11bobo9bo27bo21b3o3b3o4b2o12b2o15b2o17b3o11b
3o$6bobobobo15bo21b2o5b2o7b3o16bo13b2ob2o11b2o9b2o27b2o16b2o13bo2bo12b
o2bo11bo2bo17bobo11bobo$b2o5bobo16b2o28b2o26bobo22b3o24b3o3b3o26bobo
13b3o14b3o11b3o18b3o11b3o$2bo4b2obo5b2obo3b2obo59b2o22bobo18b3o3bobo3b
obo3b3o20bo$bo9b2o3bob2o3bob2o63b3o3b3o5b3o3b3o24b3o3b3o25b2obo13b3o
12b3o11b3o$b2o9bo14b2o32b2o3b3o21bobo3bobo5bobo21b2o23b2o15bo2b2o13bo
2bo10bo2bo11bo2bo$11bo15bo33b2o3bobo21b3o3b3o5b3o20bobo23bobo14b2o5b3o
3b3o4b2o10b2o15b2o19b3o11b3o$b2o8b2o15bo37b3o58bo27bo21bobo3bobo21b3o
3b3o24bobo11bobo$2bo9bo14b2o97b2o27b2o20b3o3b3o21bobo3bobo24b3o11b3o$b
o9bo11b2obo180b3o3b3o$b2o8b2o10bob2o37b2o178b3o3b3o$65bo178bobo3bobo$
62b3o179b3o3b3o$62bo11$127b2o$126bobo$126bo$124b2ob4o113bo2bobo2bo91b
2obo4b2o3b2o12bob2o$123bobobo2bo113b4ob4o91bob2o4b2o3b2o12b2obo27b2o3b
2o$57b2o64bobo7b2o107b2o9b2o93b2o19b2o31b2o3b2o$50b2o5b2o8bobo51b2o2bo
7b2o5b2o96b2obobob7obobob2o89bo3b2o3b2o11bo$51bo14bo22bobo13bobo12bo4b
2o13bo25b2o3b2o65b2obo2b2o2bo2b2o2bob2o90bo2bobobobo10bo20b2o27b2o$51b
obo13bo2bo21bo11bo15b5o13bobo24bo2bobo2bo33bo3bo21b2o6b2o11b2o6b2o84b
2o4bobo12b2o20bo27bo$52b2o13bobobo16bo2bo13bo2bo9b2o4bo13b2o21b2o3b2o
3b2o3b2o23b2o4bo3bo4b2o15bo4b3o15b3o4bo80b2obo5b2obo5b2obo5bob2o16bobo
23bobo$56b3o3b3o3bo2bo15bobobo13bobobo7bo2b2o5b3o3b3o25bo15bo23bo5bo3b
o5bo17bobo2bo15bo2bobo82bob2o9b2o3bob2o5b2obo17b2o23b2o$56bobo3bobo4b
2o16bo2bo3b3o3b3o3bo2bo7b2obo6bobo3bobo22b2obo15bob2o17b2obo15bob2o13b
2ob2o19b2ob2o79b2o14bo16b2o24b3o3b3o$56b3o3b3o23b2o4bobo3bobo4b2o11bo
6b3o3b3o20bo2bob2o13b2obo2bo13bo2bob2o13b2obo2bo13bo2bo4b3o3b3o4bo2bo
81bo14bo18bo18b3o3bobo3bobo3b3o$94b3o3b3o17b2o34b2obo5b3o3b3o5bob2o13b
2obo5b3o3b3o5bob2o13bob2o4bobo3bobo4b2obo82bo13b2o16bo25b3o3b3o$159bo
5bobo3bobo5bo19bo5bobo3bobo5bo15b2obo5b3o3b3o5bob2o80b2o14bo16b2o$159b
2o4b3o3b3o4b2o19b2o4b3o3b3o4b2o18bo19bo85b2obo9bo13bob2o$238b2o17b2o
85bob2o9b2o12b2obo16$128b2o141b3o$127bobo111b3o27bobo$127bo41b3o69bobo
27b3o3b3o$125b2ob4o31b3o3bobo41b3o25b3o3b3o27bobo$52bobo69bobobo2bo37b
3o3b3o35bobo31bobo17b3o7b3o$55bo35b2o31bobo33b2o13bobo3b3o23b3o3b3o21b
3o7b3o17bobo$51bo2bo13bobo13b2o5b2o29b2o2bo32bobo13b3o29bobo27bobo27b
3o11b3o$50bobobo12bo17bo35bo4b2o6b2o23bo25b2o20b3o7b3o17b3o11b3o27bobo
$50bo2bo3b3o8bo2bo13bobo13bobo17b5o8b2o5b2o15b2o25bobo15b2o12bobo31bob
o27b3o$51b2o4bobo8bobobo13b2o12bo18b2o4bo15bo27b3o15bo14bobo12b3o31b3o
$57b3o3b3o3bo2bo17b3o8bo2bo13bo2b2o5b3o8bobo21b3o3bobo15b2o13bo66b3o$
63bobo4b2o18bobo8bobobo12b2obo6bobo8b2o28b3o3b3o23b2o6b2o24b3o31bobo$
63b3o24b3o3b3o3bo2bo15bo6b3o3b3o23b2o13bobo3b3o25bobo23bobo31b3o11b3o$
96bobo4b2o16b2o11bobo22bobo13b3o32b2o3b3o17b3o11b3o31bobo$96b3o35b3o
22bo25b2o28bobo31bobo21b3o7b3o$158b2o25bobo27b3o21b3o7b3o21bobo126bo7b
o$187bo51bobo31b3o3b3o119bobo5bobo$187b2o50b3o3b3o31bobo120bo7bo$213b
2o30bobo31b3o$214bo30b3o$211b3o$211bo190b3o3b3o$343b2obo6bob2o14bob2o
21b3o3bobo3bobo3b3o$343bob2o6b2obo14b2obo27b3o3b3o$347b2o2b2o16b2o22b
2o23b2o$347bo4bo17bo21bobo23bobo$348bo2bo17bo22bo27bo$347b2o2b2o16b2o
20b2o27b2o$343b2obo6bob2o5b2obo5bob2o$343bob2o6b2obo5bob2o5b2obo$341b
2o14b2o16b2o$341bo16bo17bo$342bo14bo17bo15b2o27b2o$341b2o14b2o16b2o15b
o27bo$343b2obo6bob2o14bob2o17bobo23bobo$343bob2o6b2obo14b2obo18b2o23b
2o$402b3o3b3o$396b3o3bobo3bobo3b3o$402b3o3b3o4$402bo7bo$401bobo5bobo$
402bo7bo11$136b3o3b3o34b3o3b3o$136bobo3bobo34bobo3bobo$136b3o3b3o34b3o
3b3o97b3o$74b3o3b3o202bobo$2o5bob2o12b2obo47bobo3bobo196b3o3b3o$bo5b2o
bo12bob2o24bo7bo14b3o3b3o21b3o3b3o166bobo$o4b2o20b2o21bobo5bobo43bobo
3bobo17b3o15b3o29b2o3b2o92b3o$2o4bo20bo23bo7bo44b3o3b3o17bobo15bobo21b
3o5b2o3b2o5b3o24b3o3b3o18b3o3b3o$5bo22bo101b3o15b3o21bobo3b2o7b2o3bobo
24bobo3bobo18bobo3bobo36b3o$2o3b2o20b2o45bo11b3o83b3o3b2o7b2o3b3o24b3o
3b3o18b3o3b3o31b2o3bobo$bo5bob2o5b2obo3b2obo46bobo10bobo184b3o4b2o4b2o
3b3o$o6b2obo5bob2o3bob2o24b3o3b3o14bo11b3o184bobo4b2o$2o9b2o14b2o22bob
o3bobo70b3o15b3o122b3o$12bo14bo23b3o3b3o70bobo15bobo21b3o3b2o7b2o3b3o$
2o9bo16bo75b3o3b3o17b3o15b3o21bobo3b2o7b2o3bobo98b3o$bo9b2o14b2o57b3o
15bobo3bobo59b3o5b2o3b2o5b3o92b2o4bobo$o6bob2o12b2obo54bo4bobo15b3o3b
3o67b2o3b2o33b3o3b3o19b3o3b3o18b3o3b2o4b2o4b3o$2o5b2obo12bob2o53bobo3b
3o131bobo3bobo19bobo3bobo18bobo3b2o$81bo54b3o3b3o75b3o3b3o19b3o3b3o18b
3o$136bobo3bobo$136b3o3b3o34b3o3b3o99b3o$179bobo3bobo99bobo$179b3o3b3o
93b3o3b3o$281bobo$281b3o9$80b3o$80bobo22b3o31b3o$51bo22b3o3b3o22bobo
31bobo$50bobo21bobo28b3o3b3o19b3o3b3o78b3o24b3o$51bo7bo14b3o34bobo19bo
bo30b3o3b3o14b3o28bobo24bobo$58bobo50b3o19b3o30bobo3bobo14bobo28b3o3b
3o18b3o3b3o$59bo26b3o77b3o3b3o14b3o3b3o28bobo24bobo$86bobo56b3o47bobo
28b3o24b3o$51b3o20bo11b3o56bobo47b3o$51bobo19bobo57bo11b3o$51b3o3b3o
14bo30b3o24bobo$57bobo45bobo25bo$57b3o24b3o18b3o3b3o107b3o25b3o$79bo4b
obo24bobo31b3o18b3o3b3o14b3o29bobo25bobo$78bobo3b3o24b3o26bo4bobo18b3o
3b3o14b3o29b3o3b3o19b3o3b3o$79bo59bobo3b3o19bo5bo16bo4b3o29bobo25bobo$
140bo54b3o29b3o25b3o$196bo15$80b3o27b3o28b3o$80bobo27bobo28bobo$74b3o
3b3o21b3o3b3o22b3o3b3o$52b2o20bobo27bobo28bobo$52b2o5bo14b3o27b3o28b3o
$58bobo$59bo26b3o27b3o28b3o$86bobo27bobo28bobo$51b3o21b2o9b3o16b2o9b3o
17b2o9b3o$51bobo21b2o28b2o29b2o$51b3o3b3o$57bobo$57b3o24b3o22b2o3b3o
30b3o$79bo4bobo22b2o3bobo25bo4bobo$78bobo3b3o27b3o24bobo3b3o$79bo62bo
17$46b2o$46bo2b2o$47b2ob2o$50b2o$50b2o5b3o3b3o35b2o29b2o$47b2ob2o5bobo
3bobo4bobo28b2obo25bob2o$46bo2b2o6b3o3b3o4bo2bo31bo23bo$46b2o25bo28bo
29bo$70bo2b2o28bob2o21b2obo$75b2o28b2o6b3o3b3o6b2o$70bo3b2obo35bobo3bo
bo$77b3o33b3o3b3o$71b5o4bo$71bo2bob4o$75bo$76bob2o$73b2obob2o$73bo2bo$
73b2obo$75bo$71b2o$72bo3bo5bo$69b3o3b3o3bobo$69bo4bobobo2b2o$70b5o3b3o
$75bobo3b2o$72b3o4b2o2bo$72bo2b3o4b2o$73b2o5bobo$75bo2bo3bo$75b4ob2o$
79bo$77bobo$77b2o!
-Matthias Merzenich

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by simsim314 » January 2nd, 2015, 6:54 am

Sokwe wrote:I think there has been some searching in this direction
Maybe we should look for prepulsar-trucks instead of a gun?

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 2nd, 2015, 8:28 am

simsim314 wrote:Maybe we should look for prepulsar-trucks instead of a gun?
And by trucks you mean spaceships/puffers, right?
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by unname66609 » January 2nd, 2015, 8:33 am

codeholic wrote:
simsim314 wrote:Maybe we should look for prepulsar-trucks instead of a gun?
And by trucks you mean spaceships/puffers, right?
space ship:PPS,SPPS,APPS
PPS = pre pulsar spaceship

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 2nd, 2015, 8:36 am

Well, pre-pulsar spaceship is rather a pair of spiders pushing a pre-pulsar, than a prepulsar-based spaceship, because prepulsar doesn't work as an engine there.
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by simsim314 » January 2nd, 2015, 9:32 am

codeholic wrote:And by trucks you mean spaceships/puffers, right?
Woops... I meant tracks. Like conduits (sorry for the typo).

Something of this sort that can be reused:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
2$6b2o15b2o$5bo19bo$8bo13bo$4bo3bo13bo3bo$b4o3bo13bo3b4o$6bo17bo$11b3o
3b3o$11bobo3bobo$11b3o3b3o!
Last edited by simsim314 on January 2nd, 2015, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 2nd, 2015, 4:49 pm

I ran a Bellman search with p29 traffic light factory, but all I've got so far is this useless stabilisation:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
9bobo19bobo$3bob2obob2o19b2obob2obo$3b2obobo8bo7bo8bobob2o$8bob2o4bobo
5bobo4b2obo$7bobobo5bo7bo5bobobo$3b2o2bo27bo2b2o$3bobob2o25b2obobo$2ob
obo31bobob2o$obob2o6bo4b3o3b3o4bo6b2obobo$2bo8bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo8bo$o
bob2o6bo4b3o3b3o4bo6b2obobo$2obobo31bobob2o$3bobob2o25b2obobo$3b2o2bo
27bo2b2o$7bobobo5bo7bo5bobobo$8bob2o4bobo5bobo4b2obo$3b2obobo8bo7bo8bo
bob2o$3bob2obob2o19b2obob2obo$9bobo19bobo!
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Scorbie » January 2nd, 2015, 7:29 pm

Well, that may seem disappointing, but it's still a new p29. Also I've never seen a pre-pulsar shuttle split and recombine. For me it's interesting in its own sake.
A trivial variant:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
31bobo$31b2obob2obo$9bobo13bo8bobob2o$3bob2obob2o12bobo4b2obo$3b2obobo
8bo7bo5bobobo$8bob2o4bobo16bo2b2o$7bobobo5bo16b2obobo$3b2o2bo29bobob2o
$3bobob2o14b3o4bo6b2obobo$2obobo17bobo3bobo8bo$obob2o6bo4b3o3b3o4bo6b
2obobo$2bo8bobo3bobo17bobob2o$obob2o6bo4b3o14b2obobo$2obobo29bo2b2o$3b
obob2o16bo5bobobo$3b2o2bo16bobo4b2obo$7bobobo5bo7bo8bobob2o$8bob2o4bob
o12b2obob2obo$3b2obobo8bo13bobo$3bob2obob2o$9bobo!
But it'll be nice if we do find something useable for the factory.
Best wishes to you! - Scorbie

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Sokwe » January 2nd, 2015, 11:24 pm

codeholic wrote:I ran a Bellman search with p29 traffic light factory, but all I've got so far is this useless stabilisation
That's beautiful! It's the first p29 oscillator that doesn't use the p29 pre-pulsar shuttle! Here is the oscillator optimized for low population (rather than bounding box):

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
4b2o31b2o$5bo31bo$5bob2o25b2obo$6bobo8bo7bo8bobo$8bob2o4bobo5bobo4b2ob
o$7bobobo5bo7bo5bobobo$3b2o2bo27bo2b2o$3bobob2o25b2obobo$2obobo31bobob
2o$obob2o6bo4b3o3b3o4bo6b2obobo$2bo8bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo8bo$obob2o6bo4b
3o3b3o4bo6b2obobo$2obobo31bobob2o$3bobob2o25b2obobo$3b2o2bo27bo2b2o$7b
obobo5bo7bo5bobobo$8bob2o4bobo5bobo4b2obo$6bobo8bo7bo8bobo$5bob2o25b2o
bo$5bo31bo$4b2o31b2o!
-Matthias Merzenich

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Sokwe » January 7th, 2015, 1:20 am

codeholic wrote:I ran a Bellman search with p29 traffic light factory, but all I've got so far is this useless stabilisation
A stabilization of the full wick is easy to find with Bellman:

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
10b2o15b2o$9bobo15bobo$9bo5bo7bo5bo$7b2obo3bobo5bobo3bob2o$3b2obo2bo5b
o7bo5bo2bob2o$4bob2o23b2obo$4bo29bo$3b2o29b2o$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo$9bobo3bo
bo3bobo3bobo$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo$2o2b2o27b2o2b2o$o2bobo27bobo2bo$2b2o31b2o
$3bo31bo$3bobo27bobo$4b2o27b2o$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo$9bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$
10bo4b3o3b3o4bo3$2b2o32b2o$3bo32bo$3bobo28bobo$4b2o28b2o$10bo4b3o3b3o
4bo$9bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo3$2b2o$3bo$3bobo$4b2o$10bo4b3o
3b3o4bo$9bobo3bobo3bobo3bobo$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo$33b2o$33bobo$2b2o31bo$3bo
31b2o$3bobo27bobo2bo$4b2o27b2o2b2o$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo$9bobo3bobo3bobo3bob
o$10bo4b3o3b3o4bo$3b2o29b2o$4bo29bo$4bob2o23b2obo$3b2obo2bo5bo7bo5bo2b
ob2o$4bobob2o4bobo5bobo4b2obobo$4bobo2bobo3bo7bo3bobo2bobo$3b2ob2o2b2o
15b2o2b2ob2o!
The top still lifes minimize population, and the bottom still lifes minimize bounding box.
-Matthias Merzenich

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by simsim314 » January 7th, 2015, 3:50 am

@codeholic + Sokwe could you please post the .in file for the bellman search as well (mainly for future reference)?

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Sokwe » January 7th, 2015, 4:42 am

simsim314 wrote:@codeholic + Sokwe could you please post the .in file for the bellman search as well?
Here's the input I used:

Code: Select all

#S first-encounter 5
#S last-encounter 7
#S repair-interval 25
#S stable-interval 3
#S max-live 500
#S max-active 4
#P 0 0
..............................................
..............................................
..............................................
........@@@...................................
........@..@..................................
........@@@...................................
..............@@..@@..........................
..............@.@..@..........................
................@@............................
................@.............................
..............@.@.............................
..............@@..............................
........@@@...................................
........@..@..................................
........@@@...?????????????????????????????...
.............??????????????????????????????...
............???????????????????????????????...
............???????????????????????????????...
....@.....*????????????????????????????????...
...@.@...??????????????????????????????????...
....@....??????????????????????????????????...
.........??????????????????????????????????...
.........??????????????????????????????????...
..............................................
..............................................
..............................................
Note that I started with a cell already in the interacting still life (marked by "*"). I chose this cell due to the interaction given by Codeholic. For such a low max-active setting it wouldn't be a problem to replace "*" with "?" in the input, as this only creates 3 extraneous results. Still, I was almost certain that any solution would have that cell there, so I forced it.
-Matthias Merzenich

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by simsim314 » January 7th, 2015, 9:55 am

@Sokwe thx! The mkstill takes forewer to complete... but bellman finish in a second.
Last edited by simsim314 on January 7th, 2015, 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 7th, 2015, 10:17 am

simsim314 wrote:The mkstill takes forwer to complete... but bellman finish in a second.
Usually I cut down "?" to the bare minimum to make it run faster. If it finds nothing, I start expanding "?" area.
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by simsim314 » January 7th, 2015, 10:27 am

codeholic wrote:Usually I cut down "?" to the bare minimum to make it run faster.
Great tip! I wonder why it wasn't written in this way at the first place. Anyway simple "wrapper" should be simple enough to write and automate this iterative process as well.

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by Sokwe » January 7th, 2015, 4:10 pm

simsim314 wrote:@Sokwe thx! The mkstill takes forewer to complete... but bellman finish in a second.
I personally don't use mkstill. Instead, I complete the still life by hand and then use JLS to minimize it for population or bounding box.
-Matthias Merzenich

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 7th, 2015, 4:29 pm

Here is the input file I used:

Code: Select all

#S first-encounter 15
#S last-encounter 28
#S repair-interval 10
#S stable-interval 3
#S max-live 50
#S max-active 16
#S symmetry 17:horiz-odd
#P 0 0
.
.
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..????????????????
..???????????????
..??????????????...@.......@.
..??????????????..@.@.....@.@.
..??????????????...@.......@.
..??????????????
..???????????
..??????????
..?????????...@....@@@...@@@.
..?????????..@.@...@.@...@.@.
..?????????...@....@@@...@@@....@@.
..??????????....................@@.
..???????????
..??????????????
..??????????????...@.......@.
..??????????????..@.@.....@.@.
..??????????????...@.......@.
..???????????????
..????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
..??????????????????
.
.
#F 29 13 16
.*....***.
*.*...*.*.
.*....***
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: Can we make pre-pulsar shuttle-based guns?

Post by codeholic » January 7th, 2015, 4:31 pm

Sokwe wrote:Instead, I complete the still life by hand and then use JLS to minimize it for population or bounding box.
Would you please explain how you do that exactly? I mean, how you ensure that the solution you found is minimal.
Ivan Fomichev

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