Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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Shaos
Posts: 32
Joined: April 15th, 2020, 1:40 am

Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by Shaos » April 17th, 2020, 3:15 am

I decided to create separate topic specifically about this type of signals:

http://www.gabrielnivasch.org/fun/life/ ... ed-signals

A few well known examples (some can push optional dot in front of them):

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$2b37o2$2b37o$bo4bo10bo21bo$ob
4o4b6o4b19obo$bo5bo8bo22bo$2b37o2$2b37o$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo8$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2b2o$2b34o2bo$37b2o$2b35o
2b2o$bo5bo11bo11bo5bobo$2b4o4b8o4b8o4b4obo$5bo2bo8bo11bo2bo5bo$2b4o4b
8o4b8o4b4o$bo4bo11bo11bo7b3o$2b36o2bo$38bo$2b36o$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo8$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$2b37o2$2b37o$
bo7bo10bo10bo7bo$2b7o3b8o4b7o4b5o$10bo8bo10bo2bo$2b7o3b8o4b7o4b5o$bo7b
o10bo10bo7bo$2b37o2$2b37o$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo8$2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$2b37o2$2b3o2b32o$bo2b2o33bo$2b2o
3b32o2$2b2o3b32o$bo2b2o33bo$2b3o2b32o2$2b37o$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo!
Initially I started adding my thoughts in a little more broad topic "Search for fast signals", but in order to discuss some specifics including custom software and approach to distributed search I moved here.

So for now idea is to enumerate all possible objects that move through "zebra-stripes" starting with smallest ones and create web-repository of them with pictures, features, relations between them etc. Did anybody do something like that before?

Then using brute force approach I can try to find some useful patterns like (already mentioned here):
  • end terminators for signals where such terminators are not yet available;
  • converters for non-periodical wire signals to gliders and from gliders;
  • reflectors (180 degree reflectors);
  • rotators (90 degree reflectors);
  • duplicators (when 1 signals split to 2 going to different directions);
  • crossroads (two intersecting streams of wire signals not damaging each other);
  • logical operations between streams and so on.
Interesting thing about these striped channels - they may turn 90 degree from its direction and stay stable, but there are no known signals that can turn with the channel without blowing up everything:

Code: Select all

x = 48, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
4bo3bo$2obobobobob2o$2obobobobob2o$3bobobobo$2obobobobo$2obobobobob2o
2b2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2o$3bobobobob2o2b2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob
2ob2ob2ob2o$2obobobobo$2obobobob38o$3bobobo8bo15bo14bo$2obobob6o4b13o
4b13o$2obobo9bo6bo8bo2bo$3bob14o4b7o4b13o$2obo17bo11bo13bo$2ob44o2$2ob
2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2o$2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob
2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2ob2o!
I see at least 4 category of such signals for now to cover: 3-level, 5-level, 7-level and may be 9-level (it will be almost impossible to enumerate signals with bigger height because of huge number of combinations to try). We can call them OSD3, OSD5, OSD7 and OSD9 (Orthogonal Striped Defect?). As an example I can show how my enumeration will work for OSD3 objects below (basically it encodes object appearance by 1s for every cell on zebra-stripes that we need to invert).

3-level object number 0 means just empty striped channel of specified height (all levels always start with dead line on top):
.
o
.

3-level object number 1 (OSD3#1) is lowest bit equals 1 and all other bits are 0s, so we start from top and invert every cell where bit equals 1 (here only 1st one):
o
o
.

3-level object number 2 (OSD3#2):
.
.
.

3-level object number 3 (OSD3#3):
o
.
.

and as an example 3-level object number 45 (binary 101101 or hexadecimal 2D -> OSD3#2D) - this one will have 2 columns and we invert top cells and bottom cells in both (columns are written from right to left):
o o
o o
o o


According to my classification OSD3#4B3 and OSD5#108C3 are the same object (defects with smaller height can fit in wider channels). Another existing object that can move: OSD5#A76964 (click "Step" multiple times to observe its behavior). It's obvious that while I enumerate all possibilities most objects will die on stripes with explosion, but some may start crawling left or right (and may be even up or down "against the grain" who knows) and I want to find all of them! Also it could be not only moving objects or exploding objects, but static ones too! For example one such object (in my classification it's OSD5#E56D4E) naturally appears when two small light-speed signals collide - see here. Or may be it's also could be oscillating objects that stay in the same place of striped medium without damaging surroundings like this one (manually built for illustration purposes):
http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=13&h ... 6EAD554EEE

P.S. Below is an example of signals from 4 categories - OSD9, OSD7, OSD5 and OSD3 (from left to right):

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2ob2o$2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2ob2o2$2b37o$bo32bo4bo$ob7o2b8o2b6o3b3o4b2obo$bo6b2o5bo2b2o6bobo4b
o5bo$2b6o3b3o5bo3b4o3b9o$14bo3b2o$2b6o3b8o2b18o$bo6b2o29bo$ob7o2b28obo
$bo37bo$2b37o2$2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2ob2o$2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2ob2o!
P.P.S. Changed abbreviation to OSD (Orthogonal Striped Defect), because most of them will not travel with speed of lights (most are not even signals) and just explode. I think this classification should be pretty useful as now instead of "this little asymmetrical bastard who is walking to the left" we can simply say object OSD3#4B3 :mrgreen:
Last edited by Shaos on April 23rd, 2020, 3:41 am, edited 37 times in total.

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Freywa
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Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by Freywa » April 17th, 2020, 10:00 am

This is all 1970s stuff, I think.

But I have had this idea about dependent drifters (including lightspeed signals) - somewhat like the dependent p31 and p26 glider reflectors. I think that hasn't been explored much.
Princess of Science, Parcly Taxel

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 5, rule = B2-a/S12
3bo23bo$2obo4bo13bo4bob2o$3bo4bo13bo4bo$2bo4bobo11bobo4bo$2bo25bo!

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dvgrn
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Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by dvgrn » April 17th, 2020, 10:44 am

Freywa wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:00 am
This is all 1970s stuff, I think.
Citation, please? That seems like a wild exaggeration, to say the least. I haven't looked through LIFELINE recently to hunt for references to this subject, but were people doing a lot of experimenting with lightspeed signals before lifesrc and dr became available (in the early and mid-1990s, respectively)?
Shaos wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 3:15 am
Then using brute force approach I can try to find some useful patterns like (already mentioned here)...
If you find that you're able to brute-force anything much beyond the first item on your list (stable terminators for various zebra-stripes wire signals) then I think everyone will be really surprised and amazed.

I definitely wouldn't want to say that a search like this is hopeless, though. The history of Life is full of cases where everybody assumed that a search space had been thoroughly explored, and everything findable had already been found... and then something new pops up unexpectedly, like the lightspeed telegraph, the three-glider switch engine synthesis, or the two-engine Cordership.

HartmutHolzwart
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Location: Germany

Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by HartmutHolzwart » April 17th, 2020, 12:21 pm

the most comprehensive source for signals in agars is till Gabriel Nivaschs (which I would count as early 2000s).

The kind of turner that Shaos proposes has never been really investigated seriously, I think. It wouldn't turn up on itself in dr searches except with very specific setup.

You could even try WLS in parent mode if you have a concrete idea how this turner would work. Though the mechanism would have to be extremely fast in this case to be in the range of feasible searches.

Shaos
Posts: 32
Joined: April 15th, 2020, 1:40 am

Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by Shaos » April 17th, 2020, 1:21 pm

Freywa wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 10:00 am
This is all 1970s stuff, I think.
Yes, sure it started early - 1st finding was noted in LifeLine 3:17, September 1971 :)
But most recent one I think 2007 (according to Gabriel Nivaschs's page) BTW it was from HartmutHolzwart :mrgreen:
Signals with periods 3 and 5, "p1 bubble" (and also "against-the-grain" ones (2c/3) - how did you find "against-the-grain" phenomenon???)
HartmutHolzwart wrote:
April 17th, 2020, 12:21 pm
The kind of turner that Shaos proposes has never been really investigated seriously, I think. It wouldn't turn up on itself in dr searches except with very specific setup.
I wrote online visualizer of OSD objects that you can try :roll:
OSD3#4B3 : http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=3&hex=4B3
OSD5#53B60 : http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=5&hex=53B60
OSD5#A76964 : http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=5&hex=A76964
OSD5#A72B64 : http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=5&hex=A72B64
OSD5#A52B64 : http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=5&hex=A52B64
(1st post was updated to include those links)
and now it's even able to show objects up to 13x13 : http://lifege.net/life/osd.php?cat=13&h ... 6EAD554EEE (this one is 11x13)


P.S. My preliminary brute-force search kind of proved that there is no simple terminator for smallest light-speed signal OSD3#4B3 and complex search will take time

Code: Select all

....................
....................
....@@.@@.@@.xxxyyy.
....@@.@@.@@.xxxyyy.
.............xxxyyy.
....@@@@@@@@xxxxyyy.
...@..@.....xxxxyy..
..@.@@....@@xxxyyy..
...@...@....xxxyyy..
....@@@@@@@@xxxyyy..
.............xxyyy..
....@@.@@.@@.xxyyy..
....@@.@@.@@.xxyyy..
....................
....................
I checked all combinations of zone marked x (it's 4294967296 different patterns) and started using zone marked y (1st bit for now) - nothing interesting found yet (except for a few "almost" things that ended with explosion)
Last edited by Shaos on April 23rd, 2020, 3:41 am, edited 13 times in total.

Shaos
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Joined: April 15th, 2020, 1:40 am

Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by Shaos » April 18th, 2020, 10:37 pm

There are CGOL things called "wickstretchers" that can be used to build zebra-striped channels - for example this one (created by Jason Summers in May 2005) with reduced height to fit small light-speed signal (here I use object OSD5#A72B64) and it may even absorb incoming light-speed defect if it sent in proper phase :lol:

Code: Select all

x = 87, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
79b2o$80bo$79bo3bo$72b2o4bob4o$73bo4bobo$73bob2obo3b2o$74bobob2o3bo$
72bobo2b2o2bo$72b2ob2o3b3o$75bobo5bo$72b2obobob2o2bo$8b2o62b2obobo3bob
2o$12bo62bo2bob2o2bo$6b2o4bo3b3o52bob2ob2o4bo$6bo2b2o4bo55b2obo2bob2ob
2o$6bob2ob5obob4o53bobo2bo$7b2obo6b6o52b2o4bo$8bo3b2o2bo3b2o52bo2bobob
2o$9b4obobo54b2o2bobobobo$b2o5b2o3b3o54bo2b2o2bobobo$2ob3o6b2o56b2obo
6bob2o$b5obo3b2o60bo2b4o2bo$2b6o3b2o60bobo2bo3bobo$7bo3bo62b2o3b3obobo
$6bo72bo3bo2bo$5bo3bo69bob2obobo$4b2o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
6b3obob2o$3b3obo4b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo
2b2obo2b2obobo4bo$4b2obobob3o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o
2b5obo$5b2o73bob2o$6b74o2$6b74o$5b2o69bo3bo$4b2o2b65o4b3o$3b3obo66bo2b
o$4b2o2b65o4b3o$5b2o69bo3bo$6b74o2$6b74o$5b2o73bob2o$4b2obobob3o2b4o2b
4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b5obo$3b3obo4b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2ob
o2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obobo4bo$4b2o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5b
o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo6b3obob2o$5bo3bo69bob2obobo$6bo72bo3bo2bo$7bo3bo62b2o
3b3obobo$2b6o3b2o60bobo2bo3bobo$b5obo3b2o60bo2b4o2bo$2ob3o6b2o56b2obo
6bob2o$b2o5b2o3b3o54bo2b2o2bobobo$9b4obobo54b2o2bobobobo$8bo3b2o2bo3b
2o52bo2bobob2o$7b2obo6b6o52b2o4bo$6bob2ob5obob4o53bobo2bo$6bo2b2o4bo
55b2obo2bob2ob2o$6b2o4bo3b3o52bob2ob2o4bo$12bo62bo2bob2o2bo$8b2o62b2ob
obo3bob2o$72b2obobob2o2bo$75bobo5bo$72b2ob2o3b3o$72bobo2b2o2bo$74bobob
2o3bo$73bob2obo3b2o$73bo4bobo$72b2o4bob4o$79bo3bo$80bo$79b2o!
The same light-speed defect sent along the same "wickstretcher" in wrong phase:

Code: Select all

x = 89, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
81b2o$82bo$81bo3bo$74b2o4bob4o$75bo4bobo$75bob2obo3b2o$76bobob2o3bo$
74bobo2b2o2bo$74b2ob2o3b3o$77bobo5bo$74b2obobob2o2bo$8b2o64b2obo2b2obo
b2o$12bo64bobo2b2o2bo$6b2o4bo3b3o54bob2ob2o4bo$6bo2b2o4bo57b2obobob3ob
2o$6bob2ob5obob4o55bobo2bo$7b2obo6b6o54b2ob2obo$8bo3b2o2bo3b2o54bo2b2o
2b2o$9b4obobo56b2o2bo2bo2bo$b2o5b2o3b3o56bo2b2o4bobo$2ob3o6b2o58b2obo
3bo2bob2o$b5obo3b2o62bo4b3obo$2b6o3b2o62bob2o3bobobo$7bo3bo64bo4bobobo
bo$6bo73bo4bo2bo$5bo3bo74bobobo$4b2o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo3b2obob2o$3b3obo4b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b
2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2o2bobo$4b2obobob3o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o
2b4o2b4o2b4ob2obo$5b2o75bob2o$6b76o2$6b76o$5b2o66bo8bo$4b2o2b63o4b7o$
3b3obo64bo2bo$4b2o2b63o4b7o$5b2o66bo8bo$6b76o2$6b76o$5b2o75bob2o$4b2ob
obob3o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4ob2obo$3b3obo4b2obo2b
2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2o2bobo$4b
2o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo3b2obob2o$5bo3bo74bobobo$6bo73bo
4bo2bo$7bo3bo64bo4bobobobo$2b6o3b2o62bob2o3bobobo$b5obo3b2o62bo4b3obo$
2ob3o6b2o58b2obo3bo2bob2o$b2o5b2o3b3o56bo2b2o4bobo$9b4obobo56b2o2bo2bo
2bo$8bo3b2o2bo3b2o54bo2b2o2b2o$7b2obo6b6o54b2ob2obo$6bob2ob5obob4o55bo
bo2bo$6bo2b2o4bo57b2obobob3ob2o$6b2o4bo3b3o54bob2ob2o4bo$12bo64bobo2b
2o2bo$8b2o64b2obo2b2obob2o$74b2obobob2o2bo$77bobo5bo$74b2ob2o3b3o$74bo
bo2b2o2bo$76bobob2o3bo$75bob2obo3b2o$75bo4bobo$74b2o4bob4o$81bo3bo$82b
o$81b2o!
Also I think it should be possible to build special puffers that may construct proper light-speed channels guarded by blocks or may be modify existing block puffers to do that (see below):

Code: Select all

x = 155, y = 85, rule = B3/S23
2bo13bo$b3o11b3o$2obo5bo5bob2o121bo3bo$3o5b3o5b3o82b3o11b3o21b3ob3o$b
2o4b5o4b2o23bo7bo22bo7bo20bobo11bobo20b2obobob2o$5b2obobob2o25b2ob2o3b
2ob2o18b2ob2o3b2ob2o18bo3bo7bo3bo19b2o7b2o$7b2ob2o30b2o3b2o24b2o3b2o
21b2o2bo7bo2b2o20bo7bo$4b2ob2ob2ob2o29bobo28bobo27b2o5b2o23b2o7b2o$3bo
11bo21bo4bobobobo4bo14bo4bobobobo4bo18bob2ob3ob2obo19b2obobo3bobob2o$
6bo5bo23b3o5bobo5b3o12b3o5bobo5b3o15bo4bob3obo4bo18bobob2ob2obobo$2bo
5bobo5bo19bo17bo12bo5bobobobo5bo16b3obo5bob3o16b2obo2bobobobo2bob2o$3b
2obo2bo2bob2o22bo3bobobobo3bo16bo2bo2bobo2bo2bo19b3o7b3o17b2obob2obobo
b2obob2o$3bob2o2bo2b2obo22b2o2bobobobo2b2o16b2o3b2ob2o3b2o21b2o5b2o19b
obo2bo2bobo2bo2bobo$2bo4b5o4bo19bo6b2ob2o6bo12bo7bobo7bo20bobobobo19b
2ob2o11b2ob2o$bo4bo5bo4bo18bo17bo12bo6b2ob2o6bo20b3ob3o19bo4b2obo3bob
2o4bo$7b5o30b3ob3o18bobo13bobo22bobo20bobob5o5b5obobo$2bo13bo23b2o7b2o
18b2o11b2o24bobo$4bo4bo4bo23bob2o7b2obo14bob2o11b2obo21b2ob2o24bobo7bo
bo$2bo3b2obob2o3bo20b2o5bobo5b2o13bo2bo11bo2bo50bo11bo$b3o11b3o20bo4b
2ob2o4bo14bo17bo19b3o3b3o21b2obo7bob2o$bob2o9b2obo21bobobo3bobobo17bob
3o5b3obo19b2obo5bob2o20bob2o5b2obo$b4o9b4o19bo4bobobobo4bo16bobo7bobo
23bo5bo20b2obobobo3bobobob2o$2bo2bo7bo2bo20bobo4bobo4bobo17bobo5bobo
24b2o3b2o20b2obobob2ob2obobob2o$2bo3b2o3b2o3bo21bo2bo7bo2bo54b2ob2o21b
obo3bobobobo3bobo$3b2ob2o3b2ob2o26bo5bo24b2o3b2o52b2ob2ob2obobob2ob2ob
2o$8bobo31b7o23bo2bobo2bo23bo3bobo3bo26bobo$3b4obobob4o25b2o5b2o19b2ob
o2bobo2bob2o48b3ob3obo3bob3ob3o$2bo3bobobobo3bo26bo3bo23b2obo3bob2o24b
obobobo$2b3o2b2ob2o2b3o55bo7bo25bobobobo24b3o5b3o$2bo3bobobobo3bo24b3o
3b3o22bob2ob2obo26b2ob2o20b2o5b2o3b2o5b2o$4o4bobo4b4o19b3o3bobo3b3o22b
obo54b2o6bo3bo6b2o$b3o3bo3bo3b3o19bo2b3o5b3o2bo17bo9bo24b3ob3o18bo2bo
5b2ob2o5bo2bo$2o15b2o18bo15bo14bo4bo5bo4bo19b2o7b2o16bo21bo$6b2o3b2o
28b2o5b2o17bobo4bo3bo4bobo16bob2o7b2obo13bo23bo$5bo2bobo2bo29bo3bo18b
2ob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob2o14b2o5bobo5b2o12bob2o3b11o3b2obo$4b3obobob3o24b2o3b
obo3b2o14b2o2bo2bo5bo2bo2b2o15bo4b2ob2o4bo15bobob2obob3obob2obobo$3bo
2bobobobo2bo27bo3bo19bob2o3b2ob2o3b2obo17bobobo3bobobo16bobo3bo7bo3bob
o$3b2obobobobob2o24b2o7b2o17b3o11b3o16bo4bobobobo4bo16bobo11bobo$3b3o
2bobo2b3o25b3o3b3o20bo11bo18bobo4bobo4bobo15b2o2bo9bo2b2o$8bobo31b3ob
3o19b3o11b3o17bo2bo7bo2bo17b2o13b2o$42bobobobo18bo2bo11bo2bo20bo5bo20b
2o15b2o$43b2ob2o20b2o13b2o21b7o$4b2o7b2o27bobobobo56b2o5b2o$4b2o7b2o
26b3o3b3o18b2ob3o5b3ob2o22bo3bo$40bo2bo3bo2bo16bo2bo11bo2bo48b2o13b2o$
41b2o5b2o18bo3b2o5b2o3bo20b3o3b3o20b2o13b2o$4b2o7b2o26b2o5b2o24bo3bo
23b3o3bobo3b3o$4b2o7b2o55b2o3bobo3b2o18bo2b3o5b3o2bo$74bo3bo22bo15bo
16b2o13b2o$40b2o7b2o20b2o7b2o23b2o5b2o20b2o13b2o$4b2o7b2o25b2o7b2o21b
3o3b3o26bo3bo$4b2o7b2o58b3ob3o23b2o3bobo3b2o$73bobobobo27bo3bo22b2o13b
2o$40b2o7b2o23b2ob2o25b2o7b2o19b2o13b2o$4b2o7b2o25b2o7b2o22bobobobo25b
3o3b3o$4b2o7b2o57b3o3b3o25b3ob3o$71bo2bo3bo2bo24bobobobo21b2o13b2o$40b
2o7b2o21b2o5b2o26b2ob2o22b2o13b2o$4b2o7b2o25b2o7b2o21b2o5b2o25bobobobo
$4b2o7b2o90b3o3b3o$104bo2bo3bo2bo19b2o13b2o$40b2o7b2o20b2o7b2o23b2o5b
2o20b2o13b2o$4b2o7b2o25b2o7b2o20b2o7b2o23b2o5b2o$4b2o7b2o30bo$9bo34bob
o87b2o13b2o$8bobo29b2obobobob2o20b2o7b2o22b2o7b2o19b2o13b2o$4b2obobobo
b2o25b2obobobob2o20b2o7b2o22b2o7b2o$4b2obobobob2o28bobobo$7bobobo31bob
obo86b2o13b2o$7bobobo28b2obobobob2o20b2o7b2o22b2o7b2o19b2o13b2o$4b2obo
bobob2o25b2obobobob2o20b2o7b2o22b2o7b2o$4b2obobobob2o28bobobo28bo32bo
28bo3bo3bo$7bobobo31bobobo27bobo30bobo23b2obobobobobobob2o$7bobobo28b
2obobobob2o20b2obobobob2o22b2obobobob2o19b2obobobobobobob2o$4b2obobobo
b2o25b2obobobob2o20b2obobobob2o22b2obobobob2o22bobobobobobo$4b2obobobo
b2o29bobo27bobobo28bobobo25bobobobobobo$8bobo34bo28bobobo28bobobo22b2o
bobobobobobob2o$9bo61b2obobobob2o22b2obobobob2o19b2obobobobobobob2o$
71b2obobobob2o22b2obobobob2o22bobobobobobo$74bobobo28bobobo25bobobobob
obo$74bobobo28bobobo22b2obobobobobobob2o$71b2obobobob2o22b2obobobob2o
19b2obobobobobobob2o$71b2obobobob2o22b2obobobob2o23bo3bo3bo$75bobo30bo
bo$76bo32bo!
Do we have puffer masters here who can tell me how to build such puffers? :roll:

User avatar
Ian07
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Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by Ian07 » April 19th, 2020, 1:10 am

Shaos wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 10:37 pm
There are CGOL things called "wickstretchers" that can be used to build zebra-striped channels
Sorry to get off topic, but could you please stop multi-posting? Per the forum rules:
Nathaniel wrote:3. In order to keep the forums organized, please:

a. Do not post multiple messages consecutively in the same topic. If your message is the most recent one in a topic, simply edit it if you have additional things to add.

Shaos
Posts: 32
Joined: April 15th, 2020, 1:40 am

Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by Shaos » April 19th, 2020, 1:19 am

Those messages are kind of having different subjects written in different days, but ok - if you like to read long posts talking about slightly different things at once that's fine :roll:

BTW - this is attempt to send light-speed signal through the tail of another wickstretcher from Jason Summers (also created in May 2005) - this one always explodes:

Code: Select all

x = 65, y = 162, rule = B3/S23
39b3o$35b5o2bo$34b2obobo3bo$36bo6bo$32bobo6bo$31b2ob2o6bobo$30bobob2o
3b2obob2o$29b2obo6b2obobobo$28bo3bob2o3bo2bo3b2o$32b2o4b2o2bobo3bo$28b
2obobo11bo$31b2o14b2o$28bo2b4o$28bobo$30bo2b2o$33b2o$29bo2bobo$29b2obo
b2o$29b2ob2o$28b2ob2ob2o2$28b3ob3o$44b3o$30b3o11bo2bo$31bo12bo$18b3o
10bo5b3o4bo3bo$18bo2bo14bo3bo3bo$18bo13b2obo5bo2bo6bo$18bo3bo2b3o3bobo
bo2bo3bo7b3o$18bo3bobo3bo2bobobob2o4bobobob2o2bo$13bo5bo4bo4bobobobob
4o6bo4b3o$12b3o4bo3b2o4bobobobo3bobo6b2o2b2o$11b2o3bo3b3o4bobobobobob
2o4b2o3b2o2b2o$11bo4bob2obo4b2obobobobob2o4b2o3bobobo$13bo4bo10bobobob
o10bo3bo$13bobobo3bo4bo2bobobobobo8b3obo$12bobo2bobo2bo4bobobobobobo
12b2o$14bobo5bo2bo3bobobobo3bo7b2o$14bobo9b2obobobobob2o9b2ob2o$14bo
11b2obobobobob2o8bobo3bo$13b4obo10bobobobo13bo$12bo3b2o9bobobobobobo
10b2o3bo$11b2ob2o11bobobobobobo11bo$16bo8bo3bobobobo3bo10bobo$13bo12b
2obobobobob2o11bobo$13bo12b2obobobobob2o$13bo15bobobobo$14bobo10bobobo
bobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob
2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobo
bobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo
3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobo
bo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$
29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobob
ob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bo
bobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$
27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bo
bobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o
$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobo
bo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bo
bobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobo
bo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b
2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3b
o$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobo
bobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$
27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2ob
obobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$
26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27bobobobobobo$27bobobobo
bobo$25bo3bobobobo3bo$26b2obobobobob2o$26b2obobobobob2o$29bobobobo$27b
obobobobobo$27bobobobobobo$18b2o5bo3bobobobo3bo5b2o$12b2o3bobo6b2obobo
bobob2o6bobo3b2o$2bo3b2ob2o2bo3bo8b2obo5bob2o8bo3bo2b2ob2o3bo$2b3o2bob
2obo5b4o7bo2bo2bo7b4o5bob2obo2b3o$5b2o5b2o2bobo3bo4bobo4b2obo4bo3bobo
2b2o5b2o$4bo2b5o3bobo3b2o4bob2o4bobo4b2o3bobo3b5o2bo$4b2o7b3o4bo4bo3bo
b3obo3bo4bo4b3o7b2o$8b4o5bo2bo5b2obobobobob2o5bo2bo5b4o$2b3ob3o4bo3b2o
b2o5bobobobobobo5b2ob2o3bo4b3ob3o$2bo2bo2b2obobobob2o3bob2obobobobobob
ob2obo3b2obobobob2o2bo2bo$3bo3bobobobo6bobo2bob2o3bo3b2obo2bobo6bobobo
bo3bo$3o3b2o2b2o2b5o3bobo15bobo3b5o2b2o2b2o3b3o$o6bo4b2o5b3o2b5o7b5o2b
3o5b2o4bo6bo$5bo4b2o2b5o3b2o4bo7bo4b2o3b5o2b2o4bo$5b2o2bo2b2o2bo2b3o2b
2o13b2o2b3o2bo2b2o2bo2b2o$10bo2bo5bo2bo2bo13bo2bo2bo5bo2bo$11b2o9b2o
17b2o9b2o!
UPDATE: Last time we sent signal with dot in the middle to wickstretcher's tail:
Shaos wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 10:37 pm
There are CGOL things called "wickstretchers" that can be used to build zebra-striped channels - for example this one (created by Jason Summers in May 2005) with reduced height to fit small light-speed signal (here I use object OSD5#A72B64) and it may even absorb incoming light-speed defect if it sent in proper phase :lol:
Today I found that if we send signal without dot (OSD5#A52B64) it will RECODE wickstretcher! And it doesn't matter in which phase it sent - it will RECODE it exactly the same way! And it stays that way:

Code: Select all

x = 87, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
79b2o$80bo$79bo3bo$72b2o4bob4o$73bo4bobo$73bob2obo3b2o$74bobob2o3bo$
72bobo2b2o2bo$72b2ob2o3b3o$75bobo5bo$72b2obobob2o2bo$8b2o62b2obobo3bob
2o$12bo62bo2bob2o2bo$6b2o4bo3b3o52bob2ob2o4bo$6bo2b2o4bo55b2obo2bob2ob
2o$6bob2ob5obob4o53bobo2bo$7b2obo6b6o52b2o4bo$8bo3b2o2bo3b2o52bo2bobob
2o$9b4obobo54b2o2bobobobo$b2o5b2o3b3o54bo2b2o2bobobo$2ob3o6b2o56b2obo
6bob2o$b5obo3b2o60bo2b4o2bo$2b6o3b2o60bobo2bo3bobo$7bo3bo62b2o3b3obobo
$6bo72bo3bo2bo$5bo3bo69bob2obobo$4b2o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
6b3obob2o$3b3obo4b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo
2b2obo2b2obobo4bo$4b2obobob3o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o
2b5obo$5b2o73bob2o$6b74o2$6b74o$5b2o69bo3bo$4b2o2b65o4b3o$3b3obo69bo$
4b2o2b65o4b3o$5b2o69bo3bo$6b74o2$6b74o$5b2o73bob2o$4b2obobob3o2b4o2b4o
2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b4o2b5obo$3b3obo4b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo
2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obo2b2obobo4bo$4b2o5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo
5bo5bo5bo5bo5bo6b3obob2o$5bo3bo69bob2obobo$6bo72bo3bo2bo$7bo3bo62b2o3b
3obobo$2b6o3b2o60bobo2bo3bobo$b5obo3b2o60bo2b4o2bo$2ob3o6b2o56b2obo6bo
b2o$b2o5b2o3b3o54bo2b2o2bobobo$9b4obobo54b2o2bobobobo$8bo3b2o2bo3b2o
52bo2bobob2o$7b2obo6b6o52b2o4bo$6bob2ob5obob4o53bobo2bo$6bo2b2o4bo55b
2obo2bob2ob2o$6b2o4bo3b3o52bob2ob2o4bo$12bo62bo2bob2o2bo$8b2o62b2obobo
3bob2o$72b2obobob2o2bo$75bobo5bo$72b2ob2o3b3o$72bobo2b2o2bo$74bobob2o
3bo$73bob2obo3b2o$73bo4bobo$72b2o4bob4o$79bo3bo$80bo$79b2o!
After that it may absorb only little shorter light-speed signal with dot - OSD5#53B60 (sent in proper phase) and everything else will cause an explosion

P.S. "Phases" need to be carefully checked because those light-speed signals are p2 and wickstretcher looks like p4

P.P.S. My enumerating program should check if it's static object, object turning into static object in a few steps, moving object (left-right with speed 1c or up-down with speed 2c/3 - can it be other speeds?) or oscillating object ( I'm interested in periods up to 8 ) - if during calculation external walls are damaged then it's "exploding" object and calculation should stop immediately...

wildmyron
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Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am
Location: Western Australia

Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by wildmyron » May 7th, 2020, 2:04 pm

I hope to see some success with this investigation, though it seems to be tricky to get many things to work because it's so easy for zebra stripes to explode. I suspect though that, as dvgrn said, some tools other than brute force enumeration will be required. Java Life Search (JLS), Win Life Search (WLS) and Life Logic Search (LLS) are options for finding interactions, but you generally need to have a fairly specific conversion in terms of timing and signal shape / position specified to run the search.

As an example, here is a p2 sink for the small signal OSD3#4B3 (along with a variation):

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo3b2o$2b19o2bobo$23bo2b2o$2b20o2bobo$bo4bo7bo7b3ob
o$ob4o4b4o4b4obo2b2o$bo5bo7bo9bo2bo$2b19o2b2ob2o$21bob3o$2b19o2bob3o$
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bobo5bo$20bobo2b3o$21bo3bo8$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo3b
o$2b19o2bobo$23bo2bobo$2b20o2bob2obo$bo4bo7bo7b3o4bo$ob4o4b4o4b4obo2b
3o$bo5bo7bo9b2o$2b19o2b2o$21bob2o$2b19o2bob2o$2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bobo
3bo$22bo2bo$22bobo$23bo!
Attached to this post is a search file for JLS which finds these results. Note that it has been designed with the benefit of hindsight - I ran several variations of this search before finding something successful and then adjusted it in order to find these results quickly as a demonstration. Because of limitations of the forum the file is attached as a .txt file, please change to .jdf. The main things to note in this search file are the definition of the input signal, the sub-periodic constraints (setting a p2 area), using Don't Care cells in the last gen to inject the signal, and the Sort Order being changed to "check all cells in a generation first".

I spent some time also searching for a stable sink, along with Saka who conducted some similar searches, but to no avail. It appears that if there is a stable sink for this signal then it is both quite large and requires a long recovery time.

====

I was a bit surprised not to find any mention of the smaller p1 signals in this thread to date, e.g. OSD5#11CA. It seems to me that even though the signal is wider the lower period improves the chances of being able to find interactions such as reflectors and rotators. There are also a few periodic signal generators for this signal already known. Here are 2 from the JS-Life collection, p5 and p6:

Code: Select all

x = 72, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
15bo5b2o$13b3o5bo25b2o$12bo5b2obo25bo$13bob4o2bobo24b3o$12b2obo4bobobo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo4bo$18b3obob25obobo$8b2o2b3o2bo3bo27bobobo$8bo2bo
2bo2bob3ob2o2b3o2b3o2b3o2b3o2bobobobo$9bobobo2b2o4bob2o3b2o3b2o3b2o3b
2o5bob2o$8b2obo2bobo3bob2o3b3o2b3o2b3o2b3o2bobobobo$12b3o2b2obobo26bob
obo$20bo2b26obobo$14b7o9bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo4bo$14bo10b3o20b3o$17b2o6bo2b
o18bo$17b2o8b2o18b2o6$47b2o$17b2o3b2obo2b2o16bo2bo$11b2ob2o2bo3bob2o3b
o16bobo2bo4b2o2b2o2b2o$12bobo3bob2o4b3o16b2ob3obobo2bo2bo2bo2bo$b2o7bo
bo2b3obobob2o6bo2bo2bo2bo2bo3bo3bob3o5bobobo$bobo4b3obo4bobo3bob21o3bo
bo4b5obo2b4o$3bo3bo4b2o7bobobo20b3obobob2o4bobobo3bo$3b2o3bob2o2bo3bo
2b2o2b2ob4o2b4o2b4o2bo3bob2ob2ob3obo2b2o$b2o4b2o3bo9bo2bo5b2o4b2o4b2ob
2o2b2o6b3obo2b2o2bo$o3b2o2bob2o2bo13b4o2b4o2b4o2b2ob2o2b2o4b2obo2bo3bo
$bobo2b2o4b3obobo3b2o22bo2bobo2bo4bobobobo2bo$2ob3o2b3obo2bobo4bobob
20o3bob2obobo2bobob2o4b3o$2bo3b2o2bo2bobo2b5ob2o5bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2b3obo
2b2ob3o3bo8bo$2bob2o2bobo3b2o7bo3bobo15bo2bo2bo7b2obo$3bobo2b2o10b2o2b
ob2ob2o13b2o3b2o7bo2bo$20bob2o35b2o!
There's one other signal generator in the collection, also p5, which emits the p2 signal mentioned above (OSD3#4B3):

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
11bo4b2o$9b3o5bo$b2o5bo7bo29b2o$bo5bo2b2o3bob3o3b2obo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo4b
o3b2o$2b3obob2o2bo2bobo2bo2bob17o6bo2bo$4bobo3bo2bobo3bobobo23b2obo7b
2o$6bo3bob2ob2o3bobob20o4bob2o3b2o2bo$2o4bobobobo4bo4bo4bo5bo3bo6bo2bo
2bo6b2o$o2bo2b2o5b2o2bo3b2o3bo4bo4bo4bobo3bo2bo2b3o$2b2o2bo2bob2obo3b
3o7bo3bo5bo3bo3bo4b3o2b3o$3bobob5o4bobobob25obo2bobobo2bo$2bo2b2o5b5ob
obo26bob3obobobo$3b2o3b2o2bo4bo3b24o2bo4b2o2bo$5b3obo4b3o6bo2bo2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo3b3o3b2o$5bo7b2o35bob2o$51bobo!
Inspired by these and a comment by someone else (on the ConwayLife Lounge Discord) I searched for a signal generator for a variant of this signal - two copies on nearby lanes. Here it is along with a p5 sink:

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
4b2obo2bo3bo4bo$3bobob4o2bobo3b3o19bo$3bo2bo4b3obo6bo17bobo2bo$2obo4b
2o5bob4o2bo13bo2bob4o$o2b2o2b2ob4obobo3b2o14b3obo4b2ob2ob2ob2o$2bo3bo
3bo2bobo4bo4bo2bo2bo2bo6bob2o2b2obobo3bo$b2ob2ob4o4b2o2b22obob2o4bo2bo
bo$3bobobo6b2o26bo3b6ob2ob3o$3bo3bo7bo3bo3b3o2b3o2b3o2b2o4b2o6bo3bo2bo
$2b2obo4b5obo2b2o4b2o3b2o3b2o4b2o4bo3b2obobobo$2bo2b4o5b2obo2b2ob3o2b
3o2b3o2b2o4b2obobo3bobobo$3b2o4b5o4b2o20b4o7b2o2bo$5bo2bo5b4o2b20o4b7o
2b2obo$3b2o4b5o4b2o20b4o7b2o2bo$2bo2b4o5b2obo2b2ob3o2b3o2b3o2b2o4b2obo
bo3bobobo$2b2obo4b5obo2b2o4b2o3b2o3b2o4b2o4bo3b2obobobo$3bo3bo7bo3bo3b
3o2b3o2b3o2b2o4b2o6bo3bo2bo$3bobobo6b2o26bo3b6ob2ob3o$b2ob2ob4o4b2o2b
22obob2o4bo2bobo$2bo3bo3bo2bobo4bo4bo2bo2bo2bo6bob2o2b2obobo3bo$o2b2o
2b2ob4obobo3b2o14b3obo4b2ob2ob2ob2o$2obo4b2o5bob4o2bo13bo2bob4o$3bo2bo
4b3obo6bo17bobo2bo$3bobob4o2bobo3b3o19bo$4b2obo2bo3bo4bo!
Attachments
stripes_c_signal_p2-sink.txt
JLS search file for p2 signal sink in zebra stripes
(17.05 KiB) Downloaded 152 times
The 5S project (Smallest Spaceships Supporting Specific Speeds) is now maintained by AforAmpere. The latest collection is hosted on GitHub and contains well over 1,000,000 spaceships.

Semi-active here - recovering from a severe case of LWTDS.

User avatar
roolif
Posts: 51
Joined: November 18th, 2019, 7:59 pm

Re: Research on orthogonal lightspeed signals traveling through striped media

Post by roolif » May 7th, 2020, 5:23 pm

Although we are talking about lightspeed signals, in both cases the throughput is really c/5, that is, 1 bit every 5 ticks. Usually encoded by the presence/absence of the signal train. It can be encoded too by phase, as in the middle one. And this speed is regarding the properties of the media, the hairy striped wire, not taking into account the constraints imposed by emitters, sinks and turns. Those constraints will be more stringent taking into account encoders/decoders.

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory:T51,48
2$A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A$51A2$51A$5BA4BA
40B$4A4BA4B38A$4BA4BA41B$51A2$51A$A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A
2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A3$8.5D$3.5D3$A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A
2.A2.A2.A$51A2$51A$5BA3BA22BA18B$4A4BA4B18A4B16A$4BA5BA20BA19B$51A2$
51A$A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A3$8.5D$3.5D3$A2.
A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A$51A$10B15.12B.13B$6A2B
3A2B20A2B16A$5B2A3B2A20B2A17B$6A2B3A2B20A2B16A2$51A$A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A
2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 2 WIDTH 480 ZOOM 10 ]]

Back to the pure signal itself, is c/5 the maximum infoflow in B3/S23 ?

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 13, rule = LifeSuper
#C [[ NOGUI NOSOURCE HEIGHT 100 WIDTH 100 ]]
3A.3A.5A$A.A3.A$A.A.3A.A.A.A$A7.A3.A$A.5M.A.A.A$A9.A.A$A.5M.3A.A$A.M$
A.M.3M.D.D.D$2.M3.M3.D$3M.3M4D.D$M11.D$10M.2D!

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