Do any of the common SAT solvers offer this feature? If they do then I'll try to support it in LLS.wildmyron wrote:That is very unfortunate. The lack of checkpointing in LLS is a significant drawback to using it for hard search problems.LaundryPizza03 wrote:A power surge killed all my LLS searches.
Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch

 Posts: 1049
 Joined: July 1st, 2016, 3:58 pm
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
LaundryPizza, can you post what search parameters failed for those speeds and what you were running? That would help if any of us try to find those speeds.
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Nontotalistic rules.
Things to work on:
 Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Nontotalistic rule
 Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)
Things to work on:
 Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Nontotalistic rule
 Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
For the (7,1)c/8 it was a box 11 cells long, 20 cells wide, and population no more than 20. I don't recall the paramaters for any of the other searches, but my guess for 12c/31d would be a square box, 16 cells on a side, with population 3 cells.
EDIT: The 12c/31d search was actually in an 18*18 box and had D2\ symmetry.
EDIT: The 12c/31d search was actually in an 18*18 box and had D2\ symmetry.
Last edited by LaundryPizza03 on July 16th, 2019, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
I have also decided that I am running too many searches in LLS right now. I decided to outsource my searches for period multiples of c/2 diagonal with population 4 cells. For simplicity, I have assumed that the ships are glidesymmetric and exist in rules with B2ac/S1, but you can certainly search without.
Specifically, I am looking for:
Specifically, I am looking for:
 18c/36d, 13*13 bounding box (smallest unknown multiple)
 19c/38d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 5 cells)
 20c/40d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 13 cells)
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Unfortunately the computer I was running this on had a forced update before the solver completedwildmyron wrote:<snip>LaundryPizza03 wrote:I now request that it be carried out for finding spaceships of the following speeds for 5s:(There were two more searches, but I forgot what they were.)
 (7,1)c/8
 12c/31d
 (7,3)c/17
 12c/20 (3 cells)
I'll have a go at the 12c/31d.
I posted 4cell ships of the first two to the 5S threadLaundryPizza03 wrote:
 18c/36d, 13*13 bounding box (smallest unknown multiple)
 19c/38d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 5 cells)
 20c/40d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 13 cells)
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 221,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki.
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Where? I don't see them.wildmyron wrote:I posted 4cell ships of the first two to the 5S threadLaundryPizza03 wrote:
 18c/36d, 13*13 bounding box (smallest unknown multiple)
 19c/38d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 5 cells)
 20c/40d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 13 cells)
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
As I mentioned to you elsewhere, I'd included them in a previous update to the 5S project but didn't get around to posting them to the thread. For the record:LaundryPizza03 wrote:Where? I don't see them.wildmyron wrote:I posted 4cell ships of the first two to the 5S threadLaundryPizza03 wrote:
 18c/36d, 13*13 bounding box (smallest unknown multiple)
 19c/38d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 5 cells)
 20c/40d, 14*14 bounding box (current record is 13 cells)
18c/36 diagonal, 4 cells
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B2ac3cr4jnrty5jnr6eik/S1e2n3cjk4crwy5ceiry6ik7
o2$3o!
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B2acn3ky4eintwyz5ajry6i7e/S01e3ciqy4eyz5aejnq6k7e
o2$3o!
I reran the search with cadical and it completed in 15 hours, as opposed to the longer than 1 week I had glucosesyrup running for (with 4 threads)! Posted to the 5S thread.wildmyron wrote:Unfortunately the computer I was running this on had a forced update before the solver completedwildmyron wrote:I'll have a go at the 12c/31d.
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 221,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki.

 Posts: 58
 Joined: June 19th, 2019, 12:18 pm
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Can someone search for oscillators or spaceships in Seeds (B2/S)?
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Which ones? Perhaps a c/6 orthogonal forerake matching this?CoolCreeper39 wrote:Can someone search for oscillators or spaceships in Seeds (B2/S)?
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!

 Posts: 58
 Joined: June 19th, 2019, 12:18 pm
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Yes.LaundryPizza03 wrote:Which ones? Perhaps a c/6 orthogonal forerake matching this?CoolCreeper39 wrote:Can someone search for oscillators or spaceships in Seeds (B2/S)?
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Hmm... I am getting the same nonsense in LLS as the last person who tried c/6o.CoolCreeper39 wrote:Yes.LaundryPizza03 wrote:Which ones? Perhaps a c/6 orthogonal forerake matching this?CoolCreeper39 wrote:Can someone search for oscillators or spaceships in Seeds (B2/S)?
Code: Select all
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0 i1 i2 i3 i4 i5 i6 i7 i8 i9 i10 i11 i12 i12 i11 i10 i9 i8 i7 i6 i5 i4 i3 i2 i1 0
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0 h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6 h7 h8 h9 h10 h11 h12 h12 h11 h10 h9 h8 h7 h6 h5 h4 h3 h2 h1 0
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0 n1 n2 n3 n4 n5 n6 n7 n8 n9 n10 n11 n12 n12 n11 n10 n9 n8 n7 n6 n5 n4 n3 n2 n1 0
0 o1 o2 o3 o4 o5 o6 o7 o8 o9 o10 o11 o12 o12 o11 o10 o9 o8 o7 o6 o5 o4 o3 o2 o1 0
0 p1 p2 p3 p4 p5 p6 p7 p8 p9 p10 p11 p12 p12 p11 p10 p9 p8 p7 p6 p5 p4 p3 p2 p1 0
0 q1 q2 q3 q4 q5 q6 q7 q8 q9 q10 q11 q12 q12 q11 q10 q9 q8 q7 q6 q5 q4 q3 q2 q1 0
0 r1 r2 r3 r4 r5 r6 r7 r8 r9 r10 r11 r12 r12 r11 r10 r9 r8 r7 r6 r5 r4 r3 r2 r1 0
0 s1 s2 s3 s4 s5 s6 s7 s8 s9 s10 s11 s12 s12 s11 s10 s9 s8 s7 s6 s5 s4 s3 s2 s1 0
0 t1 t2 t3 t4 t5 t6 t7 t8 t9 t10 t11 t12 t12 t11 t10 t9 t8 t7 t6 t5 t4 t3 t2 t1 0
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Code: Select all
x = 26, y = 21, rule = B2/S
5b2o5b2o5b2o2$4bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo3$5b2o5b2o5b2o2$4bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo3$5b
2o5b2o5b2o2$4bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo3$5b2o5b2o5b2o2$5bobo3bo2bo3bobo$6bob3ob
2ob3obo$b4o16b4o$o6bo2bo4bo2bo6bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Run this object in searchRulematchPatt2.py, matching 12 generations:
It's a bit slow for me.
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 3, rule = B2cen3q4ekqrt5ajry6ek7/S02ci3ejnr4cekz5kqy6eik7
o3bo$o$2bobo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Here, convert this to an LLS search:wildmyron wrote:I'm not sure about the correctness either, but gfind does seem to work for speeds between c/2 and c. At light speed gfind can only find p1 photons. I ran a gfind search for 9c/10 in B2acn3aenr4cinq5aek6cin7e8/S12i3cnr4kqwy5ckny6e78. The search tree seems to just completely peter out beyond about 7 rows, by which I mean that increasing the search width (up to the maximum of a full width of 55) results in almost no increase to the maximum depth reached (which was about 70, or 7 rows).
To find such a ship I can see two possibilities:
1) Scan the rulespace where this frontend works and hope that a gfind search in one of those candidate rules turns up a result. This would require a bit of work to polish ntgfind to a point where it can be programmatically run without being manually built for every rule (and also adapting the get_all_iso_rules script to ignore the chaos at the back of the ship).
2) Adapt LLS to simplify iterated searching for successively longer partials (a bit like ikpx, but not so rigid).
Code: Select all
x = 47, y = 53, rule = B2acn3aenr4cinq5aek6cin7e8/S12i3cnr4kqwy5ckny6e78History
12.2B12D21B$12.2B12DBA19B$12.2B12D2A4B5A10B$12.2B12D2ABA2BA3BA10B$12.
2B12DB4A3BAB2A9B$12.2B12DA2BA4BA2BA9B$12.2B12D2ABA2BABA12B$12.2B12DB
2A3B2ABABA9B$6.3E3.2B12DB2AB2A15B$5.E3.E2.2B12DBA4BA4BA9B$5.E2.2E2.2B
12DA3BA4BA11B$5.E.E.E2.2B12DABA2BAB2AB2A9B$5.2E2.E2.2B12DA3BA4BA11B$
5.E3.E2.2B12DBA4BA4BA9B$6.3E3.2B12DB2AB2A15B$12.2B12DB2A3B2ABABA9B$
12.2B12D2ABA2BABA12B$12.2B12DA2BA4BA2BA9B$12.2B12DB4A3BAB2A9B$12.2B
12D2ABA2BA3BA10B$12.2B12D2A4B5A10B$12.2B12DBA19B$12.2B12D21B2$26.E2$
26.E2$26.E2$12.11B12D12B$12.11B12DBA10B$12.11B12D2A4B5AB$12.11B12D2AB
A2BA3BAB$12.11B12DB4A3BAB2A$12.11B12DA2BA4BA2BA$12.11B12D2ABA2BABA3B$
12.11B12DB2A3B2ABABA$.E4.3E3.11B12DB2AB2A6B$2E3.E3.E2.11B12DBA4BA4BA$
.E3.E2.2E2.11B12DA3BA4BA2B$.E3.E.E.E2.11B12DABA2BAB2AB2A$.E3.2E2.E2.
11B12DA3BA4BA2B$.E3.E3.E2.11B12DBA4BA4BA$3E3.3E3.11B12DB2AB2A6B$12.
11B12DB2A3B2ABABA$12.11B12D2ABA2BABA3B$12.11B12DA2BA4BA2BA$12.11B12DB
4A3BAB2A$12.11B12D2ABA2BA3BAB$12.11B12D2A4B5AB$12.11B12DBA10B$12.11B
12D12B!
If there is a ship with length less than 24, it will come out as SAT. Else, try
Code: Select all
x = 46, y = 53, rule = B2acn3aenr4cinq5aek6cin7e8/S12i3cnr4kqwy5ckny6e78History
12.C12D21B$12.C12DBA19B$12.C12D2A4B5A10B$12.C12D2ABA2BA3BA10B$12.C12D
B4A3BAB2A9B$12.C12DA2BA4BA2BA9B$12.C12D2ABA2BABA12B$12.C12DB2A3B2ABAB
A9B$6.3E3.C12DB2AB2A15B$5.E3.E2.C12DBA4BA4BA9B$5.E2.2E2.C12DA3BA4BA
11B$5.E.E.E2.C12DABA2BAB2AB2A9B$5.2E2.E2.C12DA3BA4BA11B$5.E3.E2.C12DB
A4BA4BA9B$6.3E3.C12DB2AB2A15B$12.C12DB2A3B2ABABA9B$12.C12D2ABA2BABA
12B$12.C12DA2BA4BA2BA9B$12.C12DB4A3BAB2A9B$12.C12D2ABA2BA3BA10B$12.C
12D2A4B5A10B$12.C12DBA19B$12.C12D21B2$25.E2$25.E2$25.E2$12.10C12D12B$
12.10C12DBA10B$12.10C12D2A4B5AB$12.10C12D2ABA2BA3BAB$12.10C12DB4A3BAB
2A$12.10C12DA2BA4BA2BA$12.10C12D2ABA2BABA3B$12.10C12DB2A3B2ABABA$.E4.
3E3.10C12DB2AB2A6B$2E3.E3.E2.10C12DBA4BA4BA$.E3.E2.2E2.10C12DA3BA4BA
2B$.E3.E.E.E2.10C12DABA2BAB2AB2A$.E3.2E2.E2.10C12DA3BA4BA2B$.E3.E3.E
2.10C12DBA4BA4BA$3E3.3E3.10C12DB2AB2A6B$12.10C12DB2A3B2ABABA$12.10C
12D2ABA2BABA3B$12.10C12DA2BA4BA2BA$12.10C12DB4A3BAB2A$12.10C12D2ABA2B
A3BAB$12.10C12D2A4B5AB$12.10C12DBA10B$12.10C12D12B!
If you find an additional segment, repeat similar searches with the newly extended partial, and continue until you come up with a ship or are unable to complete the partial. (I would do this myself, but composing the search will be too tedious, especially trying to reproduce the frontend exactly.)
(It would be interesting to see this idea implemented as an automated script...)
How would we determine the rulespace of this partial (and the shorter one mentioned earlier in 5s):
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 21, rule = B2in3ain4einqtz5eij6cen7/S02an3jnqry4ijkqrty5ekn6ai7c8
bo$obo$b2o$o$bobo$2bo$obo$bobo$2b2o$bo$b3o$bo$2b2o$bobo$obo$2bo$bobo$o
$b2o$obo$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
I would suggest that a c/6 forerake is particularly ambitious  and what's more you are searching for a triple forerake. However, I wouldn't call the original result you got nonsense  it's a perfectly valid solution to the search problem.LaundryPizza03 wrote:<snip nested quote>Hmm... I am getting the same nonsense in LLS as the last person who tried c/6o.LaundryPizza03 wrote:Which ones? Perhaps a c/6 orthogonal forerake matching this?CoolCreeper39 wrote:Can someone search for oscillators or spaceships in Seeds (B2/S)?Code: Select all
<snip search pattern>
I would suggest JLS or WLS for this search problem. Here's a partial for a single barrelled c/6 forerake from JLS:LaundryPizza03 wrote:Changing all instances of f5 to 0 returns UNSAT. Anyone have any other ideas?
Code: Select all
x = 19, y = 26, rule = B2/S
16bo$10bo$10bobobo3bo$8b3o4bob2o$16bo$6bobo6bo$8bo3bo$5b2o6bo$13b3obo$
2bo11b2o$bo3bob2obob2o$4b2obo10bo$o13b2obo$o13b2obo$4b2obo10bo$bo3bob
2obob2o$2bo11b2o$13b3obo$5b2o6bo$8bo3bo$6bobo6bo$16bo$8b3o4bob2o$10bob
obo3bo$10bo$16bo!
How about something less ambitious  like c/3 orthogonal or c/4 orthogonal  it seems as though no one has found one of those. For reference, there is a c/3 orthogonal in B2/S0 (p6, width 29, odd bilateral symmetry)
Well, that was precisely what I meant. I have no intention of attempting to manually extend the partial further  I'm fairly sure an automated process would be required to get deep enough into the search space.LaundryPizza03 wrote:<snip details of 9c/10 partial spaceship extension method>
(It would be interesting to see this idea implemented as an automated script...)
By modification to the rulespace finding script (or functions within sss.py) which would only require that the frontmost rows (or columns in this case) of the partial spaceship match under the modified rules. To be a bit more specific, consider the following code from the getRuleRangeElems function in sss.py:LaundryPizza03 wrote:How would we determine the rulespace of this partial (and the shorter one mentioned earlier in 5s):Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 21, rule = B2in3ain4einqtz5eij6cen7/S02an3jnqry4ijkqrty5ekn6ai7c8 bo$obo$b2o$o$bobo$2bo$obo$bobo$2b2o$bo$b3o$bo$2b2o$bobo$obo$2bo$bobo$o $b2o$obo$bo!
Code: Select all
# Record behavior of pattern in current rule
clist = []
poplist = []
for i in range(0,period):
g.run(1)
clist.append(g.getcells(g.getrect()))
poplist.append(g.getpop())
finalpop = g.getpop()
Perhaps, but the 9c10 search I previously mentioned is still running and I'm no more hopeful of it finishing prior to either the machine it's running on losing power or being forced to reboot, or me giving up on it.LaundryPizza03 wrote:The alternative would be to find a 9c/10o directly, at a width greater than 21, perhaps what you are already doing.
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 221,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki.

 Posts: 638
 Joined: June 14th, 2014, 5:03 pm
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
I think calcyman already did this with ikpx.LaundryPizza03 wrote:If you find an additional segment, repeat similar searches with the newly extended partial, and continue until you come up with a ship or are unable to complete the partial.
[...]
(It would be interesting to see this idea implemented as an automated script...)
I like making rules
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Indeed, that is pretty much ikpx's algorithm, with some clever interleaving of the rows and columns from the individual phases in the representation of the partial spaceship. However, it is CGoL only, so the conversion to SAT problem would need to be replaced with something like the one that LLS uses for isotropic rulesfluffykitty wrote:I think calcyman already did this with ikpx.LaundryPizza03 wrote:If you find an additional segment, repeat similar searches with the newly extended partial, and continue until you come up with a ship or are unable to complete the partial.
[...]
(It would be interesting to see this idea implemented as an automated script...)
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 221,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki.
 Hdjensofjfnen
 Posts: 1339
 Joined: March 15th, 2016, 6:41 pm
 Location: r cis θ
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Usually laptops are immune to those, right? (I agree with Macbi, though: that's a huge bummer, especially with the LLS searches spanning days or weeks.)LaundryPizza03 wrote:A power surge killed all my LLS searches.
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" Stephen Crane
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" Stephen Crane
Code: Select all
x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2i3y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!
 phdanielli
 Posts: 110
 Joined: May 21st, 2013, 6:15 am
 Location: Hong Kong
 Contact:
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
is this rule searchable?
Conquerors and Colonizers (B2ace3acei4ace5acei6ace/S)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4087&p=81297#p81297
Conquerors and Colonizers (B2ace3acei4ace5acei6ace/S)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4087&p=81297#p81297
 [list][list][list][list][list][list][list][list][list]
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Definitely not. Your scribble in the linked post produces a dot agar that expands to infinity.phdanielli wrote:is this rule searchable?
Conquerors and Colonizers (B2ace3acei4ace5acei6ace/S)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4087&p=81297#p81297
Very few rules beginning with B2a are apgsearchable, since patterns tend to expand at the speed of light. If you do want to search such a rule, you could begin with B2ac3q/S0 or a close variant.
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
 LaundryPizza03
 Posts: 457
 Joined: December 15th, 2017, 12:05 am
 Location: Unidentified location "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas"
Re: Requests for Searches  Nonapgsearch
Does this pattern become a spaceship in some rule (matching at least 6 generations)?
B2cin3ai4y5ace6e/S2i3ae5a6e  B2cin3aiqy4cejr5q678/S23a4cn5cejk678
If a spaceship exists, it is likely to travel at a high period multiple of c/3 diagonal. The smallest undiscovered period is 87.
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 8, rule = B2cin3ai4ky5ae6e/S23a5a6e
2bobo$b3obo$3o3bo$bo5bo$o5bo$bo5bo$2bobo$3bo!
If a spaceship exists, it is likely to travel at a high period multiple of c/3 diagonal. The smallest undiscovered period is 87.
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!