Thread for basic questions

Rhombic · Post by **Rhombic** » February 13th, 2017, 6:16 pm

Any chance/use for script returning the count -once stable- of mostly live or mostly dead cells for a 256x256 torus soup at 50% density with rules like B35c67e8/S345e678 (or Day&Night itself)?

Saka · Post by **Saka** » February 17th, 2017, 5:55 am

Is there any speed limit for UC/Engineered ships like waterbear and gemini?

Post by **dvgrn** » February 17th, 2017, 9:36 am

Saka wrote:Is there any speed limit for UC/Engineered ships like waterbear and gemini?

Engineereed spaceships that rely on a specific reaction to produce "over-unity" output signals are limited strictly to the speed of that reaction. That applies to the waterbear, centipede, and original caterpillar.

The half-baked knightships are kind of a strange case, and much harder to give a definite upper speed limit for. The shorter an HBK is the faster it will go, and it seems as if it might be possible to design an HBK with two active signals in its loop, which would double its speed. But it's still not going to win many races... unless we use biggiemac's idea to use the half-bakery climber reaction in a different way, in which case I believe he said that the speed limit would be (6,3)c/123.

UC-based spaceships have an upper limit speed that's always just below the speed that they can push an elbow. If somebody designs a new UC-based Orthogonoid that builds a loafer and chases it with a c/3 ship to produce a faraway target for reconstructing the Orthogonoid circuitry, then the speed limit is just below c/7. The speed of the chasing ship doesn't affect anything.

You can (theoretically) design the circuitry to let the loafer travel for umpteen gazillion ticks before the chasing ship catches it, so that the length of time needed to rebuild the circuitry is as tiny a fraction of the total period as you want. But it will always be non-zero, so you won't quite reach c/7.

If the Orthogonoid builds a 2c/5 ship and chases it with an LWSS, then the speed limit is jut below 2c/5. I guess that's about as fast as we can go at the moment, until someone finds a glider construction of a 3c/7 spaceship, or some other fraction that sneaks in a little closer to 1/2.

Post by **calcyman** » February 17th, 2017, 4:34 pm

dvgrn wrote:[If the Orthogonoid builds a 2c/5 ship and chases it with an LWSS, then the speed limit is jut below 2c/5. I guess that's about as fast as we can go at the moment, until someone finds a glider construction of a 3c/7 spaceship, or some other fraction that sneaks in a little closer to 1/2.

Blinker puffer + fuse will allow UCs with any velocity strictly less than the theoretical maximum of c/2 (by the l1 norm).

Post by **dvgrn** » February 17th, 2017, 5:57 pm

calcyman wrote:
dvgrn wrote:[If the Orthogonoid builds a 2c/5 ship and chases it with an LWSS, then the speed limit is jut below 2c/5. I guess that's about as fast as we can go at the moment, until someone finds a glider construction of a 3c/7 spaceship, or some other fraction that sneaks in a little closer to 1/2.
Blinker puffer + fuse will allow UCs with any velocity strictly less than the theoretical maximum of c/2 (by the l1 norm).

Oh, right. I even thought about those briefly while writing that post, but somehow didn't include them in the speed-limit summary.

-- Okay, so now I have a question of my own:

To actually build a UC that could be adjusted to a speed arbitrarily close to c/2, you'd need some kind of circuitry that counts to a ridiculously large number before lighting the blinker fuse. Preferably the adjustment for this circuitry would be something simple, so that the construction recipe for the circuitry wouldn't have to get bigger every time you want to count to a larger number.

But what might a fixed-recipe-size counting circuit look like?

The only thing I can think of is something along the lines of a sliding-block memory, where a special salvo creates a one-time turner off to the side of the block at the beginning of the cycle, and then a trigger signal is sent to the one-time turner at the end of the cycle, to built a *WSS to communicate the block's initial position to the next copy of the UC. (A signal would be sent to the next UC at the same time, to tell it to send out a signal to intercept the position signal and re-create the block).

Then you could just count to 2^N or whatever, based on the position of the block. Would that work, or am I missing something important?

Post by **calcyman** » February 18th, 2017, 7:41 am

I'd just use a binary counter made from semi-snarks. The recipe size grows logarithmically as the period/distance grows linearly, so we still get arbitrarily close to c/2.

Rhombic · Post by **Rhombic** » February 24th, 2017, 12:33 pm

1) How does apgcode for yl work?

2) What is the period of the puffer generated from this soup (around 10000):

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B2-a4k5678/S1-c2ci3q4567-c8
boobbbooboobbbbo$
bbboboobbbobobob$
oooboobboboboooo$
obbobboobboobbob$
oboooobbbbbobboo$
ooooobbbbbbbobbb$
booboobobobooobb$
obobbobobbbbbbbo$
boobobobbbboobbb$
bobbbbbobobboooo$
bbobbobobbobbobb$
oboboobboobbbbbo$
bboboobobooboooo$
oobooooobbbobobo$
boobbooooboobboo$
ooobbobbbooobbob!

BlinkerSpawn · Post by **BlinkerSpawn** » February 24th, 2017, 5:03 pm

Rhombic wrote:2) What is the period of the puffer generated from this soup (around 10000):
Code: Select all
soup

It's p11032.
Here's how to find this out for yourself without a script.
1) Find a "landmark": some unusual debris object or formation that you can locate relatively easily.
2) Run the pattern until the "landmark" shows up at least twice.
3) Measure the distance between them using the selection tool. When you select, simply select one spot on the landmark and drag until you reach the other, measuring to the same spot. (Here, I measured the distance to be 5516 cells)
4) Note the speed of the driving reaction (c/2 in this case)
5) Divide the spatial offset by the speed to get the period. (5516 divided by 1/2 gives a period of 11032)

Post by **dvgrn** » February 24th, 2017, 7:12 pm

Rhombic wrote:1) How does apgcode for yl work?

I can't explain all the details, but the apgsearch v1.1 code that generates the yl apgcode is fairly readable. The punchline is

q = deepperiod(difflist, maxperiod, 0)
prehash = str(moments[1]) + "#" + str(moments[2])
return "yl" + str(p) + "_" + str(q) + "_" + str(moments[0]) + "_" + hashlib.md5(prehash).hexdigest()

In other words, the apgcode is the concatenation of the period-but-not-really, the deepperiod return value q*, moment #0, and a hashed version of moments #1 and #2.

There have been previous requests for clarification on this point, I see.

Code: Select all

# Gets the period of an interleaving of degree-d polynomials:
def deepperiod(sequence, maxperiod, degree):

    for p in xrange(1, maxperiod, 1):
        good = True
        for i in xrange(maxperiod):
            diffs = [0] * (degree + 2)
            for j in xrange(degree + 2):
                diffs[j] = sequence[i + j*p]
            # Produce successive differences:
            for j in xrange(degree + 1):
                for k in xrange(degree + 1):
                    diffs[k] = diffs[k] - diffs[k + 1]
            if (diffs[0] != 0):
                good = False
                break
        if (good):
            return p
    return -1

# Analyses a linear-growth pattern, returning a hash:
def linearlyse(maxperiod):
    poplist = [0]*(3*maxperiod)
    for i in xrange(3*maxperiod):
        g.run(1)
        poplist[i] = int(g.getpop())
    p = deepperiod(poplist, maxperiod, 1)
    if (p == -1):
        return "unidentified"
    difflist = [0]*(2*maxperiod)
    for i in xrange(2*maxperiod):
        difflist[i] = poplist[i + p] - poplist[i]
    q = deepperiod(difflist, maxperiod, 0)
    moments = [0, 0, 0]
    for i in xrange(p):
        moments[0] += (poplist[i + q] - poplist[i])
        moments[1] += (poplist[i + q] - poplist[i]) ** 2
        moments[2] += (poplist[i + q] - poplist[i]) ** 3
    prehash = str(moments[1]) + "#" + str(moments[2])
    # Linear-growth patterns with growth rate zero are clearly errors!
    if (moments[0] == 0):
        return "unidentified"
    return "yl" + str(p) + "_" + str(q) + "_" + str(moments[0]) + "_" + hashlib.md5(prehash).hexdigest()

Maybe someone can clarify: moment #0 is often the population change per period, but not always -- not when q>1, possibly?

For yl384_2_342_148fdc95f876989b992da6215c6840eb, for example, q=2, and the population goes up by 340 cells per 384 ticks, but moment #0 shows up as 342.

* q, the return value of the deepperiod() call, seems to be "1" most of the time, occasionally "2", and maybe some higher integer occasionally but not that I've seen.

shouldsee · Post by **shouldsee** » February 25th, 2017, 11:08 am

Is there any existing statistical general framework for glider phenomena?

Rhombic · Post by **Rhombic** » March 9th, 2017, 5:28 pm

I have attached a plot of 1/ln(number of occurrences) for a given pattern in B3/S23 C1 symmetry, apgsearch in Catagolue, against the ordinal (most common = 1, second most common = 2, etc.)

Note the pretty much linear beginning (d^2/do^2 ~= 0), a curved area that leads to a linear asymptotic region after the 4000th most common pattern.

In particular with the latter, that appears not to change at all (the fuzzy ending is due to no. of occurrences being < 50 so the ln changes more radically).

Can something be inferred from this distribution? I'm sure there is something here.

BlinkerSpawn · Post by **BlinkerSpawn** » March 9th, 2017, 6:11 pm

Rhombic wrote:Can something be inferred from this distribution? I'm sure there is something here.

Commonly when looking at distributions of things ranked by frequency of occurrence Zipf's law tends to show up, and at least asymptotically we see similar results.
Is there any way I can get just the raw data?

Rhombic · Post by **Rhombic** » March 10th, 2017, 12:34 pm

BlinkerSpawn wrote:
Rhombic wrote:Can something be inferred from this distribution? I'm sure there is something here.
Commonly when looking at distributions of things ranked by frequency of occurrence Zipf's law tends to show up, and at least asymptotically we see similar results.
Is there any way I can get just the raw data?

Firstly, Zipf's law would refer to 1/occurrences and this is not the case. The relation plotted is 1/ln(occurrences) vs (frequency rank).

For raw data please see http://catagolue.appspot.com/textcensus/b3s23/C1

Rhombic · Post by **Rhombic** » March 14th, 2017, 2:33 pm

How do I choose a torus to stabilise this agar in Mirrors?

Code: Select all

x = 445, y = 442, rule = Mirrors
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65.A.A.C8.2A$65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
2C65.A.A.C$11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C$12.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C$10.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C$23.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C$36.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C$49.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.C$62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A
.C8.2A12.A62.C$12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C$2.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.
A.A.C8.2A12.A$11.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$24.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$37.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$50.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A$63.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.A$9.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A$10.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$8.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$21.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$34.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$47.C14.C11.2C65.A.
A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$60.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$10.A62.C14.C11.
2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$9.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$9.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.
C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$22.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$35.A.A
.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$
48.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A$61.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A$7.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
2C65.A.A$8.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
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14.C11.2C$19.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C$32.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C$45.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$58.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.
A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$8.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$7.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$7.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$20.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$33.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$46.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$59.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A$5.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C$6.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$4.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$17.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.
C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$30.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$43.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$56.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$6.A62.C14.
C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$5.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$5.A.A.C8.2A12.
A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$18.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$
31.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A$44.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A$57.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
2C65.A.A.C8.2A$3.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C$4.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C$2.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$15.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.
C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$28.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$41.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$54.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$4.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$3.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$3.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.
A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$16.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$29.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$42.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$55.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A$2.C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C$2.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$15.C11.2C65.A.
A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$13.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$26.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$39.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$
52.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$2.
A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$2.A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$3.A.C
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.A.C8.2A12.A$40.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$53.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A$66.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C$12.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C$13.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C$11.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$24.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.
A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$37.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$50.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$63.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$13.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$3.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.
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12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$25.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A
.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$38.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$51.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A$64.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C$10.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$11.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$9.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$22.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$35.C14.C11.2C65.A.
A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$48.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$61.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$11.A62.C
14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$10.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$10.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$23.A
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A$36.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A$49.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$62.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
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62.C14.C11.2C65.A$9.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C$7.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$20.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.
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.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$46.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$59.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$9.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
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14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$8.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.
A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$21.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$34.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$47.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$60.A.A.C8.2A12.A
62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A$6.2C65.A.A.C8.
2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A$7.C11.2C65.A.A
.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$5.C14.C11.2C65.A
.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$18.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$31.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$44.C
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57.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$7.
A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$6.2A
12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$6.A.A.
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19.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.
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2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$58.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
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65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$29.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$42.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
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62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$5.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.
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65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$30.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
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62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$56.A.A.C8.
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2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$52.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
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A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$36.C14.C11.2C
65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$49.C14.C
11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C$62.C14.C
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A$50.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C
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21.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
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11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$45.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C
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65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$33.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.
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62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$59.A.A.C8.
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43.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
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$6.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C$5.
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65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C$28.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C
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62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A$55.A.A.C8.
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39.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A62.C14.C11.
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198.C11.2C65.A.A.C8.2A12.A!

Post by **dvgrn** » March 14th, 2017, 2:43 pm

Rhombic wrote:How do I choose a torus to stabilise this agar in Mirrors?

In Golly, rectangle-select any recognizable spot in the agar, and increase the selection to the right, one cell high, until you're about to select the next copy of that recognizable cell, directly to the right of the original.

Then increase the selection directly downward until you're about to select the same recognizable cell -- or rather, until the selection is one cell northwest of the recognizable cell. In each case, stop selecting just before you get to the next copy of the same pattern -- but it has to be a copy that is directly orthogonal to the original, no oblique offset.

The resulting selection will be the minimum-sized agar tile, and Golly's status bar will report the width and height to use in the :Tx,y suffix for the rule.

Ethanagor · Post by **Ethanagor** » March 15th, 2017, 8:22 pm

Is there any use for a spaceship which can be extended infinitely and which moves at the speed of light but deteriorates into random unstable sparks constantly until it disappears entirely? Related question, are there any known induction coils that move?

I'm fairly new (ok fine, I've been playing for about a month) to CGOL, so I'm sure that nothing I discover will be groundbreaking.

Mr. Missed Her · Post by **Mr. Missed Her** » March 15th, 2017, 9:20 pm

Ethanagor wrote:Is there any use for a spaceship which can be extended infinitely and which moves at the speed of light but deteriorates into random unstable sparks constantly until it disappears entirely? Related question, are there any known induction coils that move?

I'm fairly new (ok fine, I've been playing for about a month) to CGOL, so I'm sure that nothing I discover will be groundbreaking.

For your second question, the answer would be yes. Spaceships can be used to stabilize other reactions in such a way that the result is a bigger spaceship. Often with a certain function, like being a puffer or rake. For your first question, though, I'm not quite sure what you're saying.

PS: These stabilizing spaceships probably aren't technically induction coils, though.

wildmyron · Post by **wildmyron** » March 16th, 2017, 2:43 am

Ethanagor wrote:Is there any use for a spaceship which can be extended infinitely and which moves at the speed of light but deteriorates into random unstable sparks constantly until it disappears entirely?

If I understand you correctly, this is something akin to a mechanism for a lightspeed signal, but in need of support to make it reusable. The lightspeed.rle pattern in Golly (originally from Jason Summers) shows such a mechanism using waves of gliders that interact in a way that leaves no debris. As far as I understand, a pattern such as you describe would only be "useful" if it is supported in a similar way such that it could transmit a signal (and be reusable)

Code: Select all

#C This is a mechanism that could be used for lightspeed
#C communication (note the lone glider in the pattern on the
#C left). The only catch is that we need a way to create long
#C waves of closely spaced gliders. This can be done by using
#C many edge-shooting glider guns, but it requires a lot of
#C space. The completed device would be shaped like a very
#C elongated diamond, with lightspeed communication occurring
#C across the short diagonal.
#C Jason Summers, 29 Oct 1999; from "jslife" pattern collection.
x = 781, y = 364, rule = B3/S23
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o424bo$102b3o422b3o$102bo424bo$103bo424bo$97b3o422b3o$97bo424bo$98bo
424bo$92b3o422b3o$92bo424bo$93bo424bo$87b3o422b3o$87bo424bo$88bo424bo$
82b3o422b3o$82bo424bo$83bo424bo$77b3o422b3o$77bo424bo$78bo424bo$72b3o
422b3o$30b3o39bo424bo$32bo40bo424bo$31bo20$8b3o422b3o$10bo424bo$9bo
424bo3$6b3o422b3o$3o5bo416b3o5bo$bbo4bo419bo4bo$bo424bo!

Ethanagor wrote:Related question, are there any known induction coils that move?

Do you mean a ship like this c/2?

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 48, rule = B3/S23
$9bobo$8bo2bo$7b2o$6bo3bo$5b3obo$2b2o$bo3b5o$o3bo$o5b2o$3o3b4o$bo7bo$b
2o$bobo$b2o2bo$2bobo2$2b2o$2bo2b2o$3bo4b2o$3bo3b2obo$4bo3bo$5b3o2bo$7b
3o2$7b3o$5b3o2bo$4bo3bo$3bo3b2obo$3bo4b2o$2bo2b2o$2b2o2$2bobo$b2o2bo$b
obo$b2o$bo7bo$3o3b4o$o5b2o$o3bo$bo3b5o$2b2o$5b3obo$6bo3bo$7b2o$8bo2bo$
9bobo!

It certainly wouldn't be described as an induction coil but features a stable part of the pattern that moves one cell per period and during each period looks like an induction coil.

A p1 example is impossible in CGoL but may be possible in an isotropic rule with B2a and without B2c, B4i and B6i.

Post by **dvgrn** » March 16th, 2017, 8:53 am

Ethanagor wrote:Is there any use for a spaceship which can be extended infinitely and which moves at the speed of light but deteriorates into random unstable sparks constantly until it disappears entirely?

For this question I was visualizing something like ants. Or possibly one of the strange patterns generated by the repeat script, which can even appear to move faster than the speed of light, though of course information doesn't actually travel that fast. Is either of these close to what you're describing here?

blah · Post by **blah** » March 16th, 2017, 10:04 am

I think he means a lightspeed wave, which actually can transmit information through empty space at the speed of light:

Code: Select all

x = 256, y = 2, rule = B3/S23
256o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo!

For a while I've imagined that you could make a pattern which can construct lightspeed waves to transmit information through empty space at the speed of light (like the lightspeed telegraph, but with the requirement that it be through empty space).

Post by **dvgrn** » March 16th, 2017, 10:53 am

blah wrote:I think he means a lightspeed wave, which actually can transmit information through empty space at the speed of light...

See also Jormungant's recent partial construction for transmitting information along a lightspeed wick -- though it's not clear that that particular design can be stabilized completely. The wick will be tough to find fenceposts for.

blah wrote:For a while I've imagined that you could make a pattern which can construct lightspeed waves to transmit information through empty space at the speed of light (like the lightspeed telegraph, but with the requirement that it be through empty space).

I remember that a specific construction for a clean lightspeed wave came up in a discussion several years ago, though at the moment I can't find the reference. I think it involved synchronizing two gliders for every width-N piece of the wave -- something like that, anyway.

The result was that you definitely could build a device that could communicate one bit of information at lightspeed across an arbitrary amount of empty space. The wave wasn't quite clean, so there was a little cleanup to do after each bit transmission, but nothing too bad.

The big problem was generating all those synchronized gliders. They had to be fairly tightly packed, and unfortunately the mechanism required to produce them in response to an input signal would have to be huge in proportion to the total width of the wave.

So no matter how big you made the wave, to get a longer distance of lightspeed transmission, the wave-builder mechanism would be proportionally large enough to make that distance look Small and Insignificant.

The mechanism would also inevitably end up being slow enough to make the lightspeed transmission seem kind of pointless... if you have to muck around synchronizing gliders for fifty thousand ticks inside a million-cell bounding box, to send a lightspeed signal across a 100-cell gap, you really might as well throw away that whole mechanism and just send a *WSS across the gap -- it will get there faster.

-- That said, the last investigation might have been pre-Snark and pre-syringe. I'll keep looking for it (if no one else comes up with a link). It might be nice to have a constructed example, even if it looks a little silly. It would be a way of importing flashy triangles like these into plain-vanilla B3/S23 Life.

Ethanagor · Post by **Ethanagor** » March 16th, 2017, 9:42 pm

dvgrn wrote:For this question I was visualizing something like ants. Or possibly one of the strange patterns generated by the repeat script, which can even appear to move faster than the speed of light, though of course information doesn't actually travel that fast. Is either of these close to what you're describing here?

Not exactly. The pattern which I have been experimenting with, which I have nicknamed the "fence," is essentially a straight line of odd numbered length, where every second cell has an additional cell placed below it. I don't currently have Golly, so I can't look at the patterns some of you have suggested for it, so sorry if that matches one of your descriptions. There might be a way to make a string of still lifes to stabilize it as it moves. I am currently testing that theory.

Saka · Post by **Saka** » March 24th, 2017, 6:15 am

Does there exist a stable 45 degree reflector?

BlinkerSpawn · Post by **BlinkerSpawn** » March 24th, 2017, 8:30 am

Saka wrote:Does there exist a stable 45 degree reflector?

Yes. Simply connect the 135-degree reflector to a Snark.
Does there exist a *small* or *fast* 45 degree reflector? The only one I know of is the P6 LWSS-to-G that was posted (Osc Discoveries thread?) a while ago.

Post by **dvgrn** » March 24th, 2017, 9:36 am

BlinkerSpawn wrote:
Saka wrote:Does there exist a stable 45 degree reflector?
Yes. Simply connect the 135-degree reflector to a Snark.
Does there exist a *small* or *fast* 45 degree reflector? The only one I know of is the P6 LWSS-to-G that was posted (Osc Discoveries thread?) a while ago.

What's wrong with Sokwe's 45-degree MWSS converter? That should count "small and fast" if anything does:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 15, rule = B3/S23

b2o$2bo3b2o$bo4b2o$b2o$3bo$b3o$o$2o2$6b3o$5bo2bo$8bo$4bo3bo$8bo$5bobo!

#C [[ THUMBNAIL STOP 35 ]]

Doesn't work for LWSSes, though. The only converter that works for all three *WSSes is definitely not small or fast -- I should probably look it up and see if new technology can make it any smaller.

If you want a 45-degree converter starting from a glider, the fastest in terms of recovery time is probably syringe + (a couple of Herschel conduits) + Kazyan's H-to-MWSS, and the smallest stable mechanism I think is currently

Code: Select all

x = 81, y = 58, rule = B3/S23

49bo11b2o$16bo31bobo10b2o$14b3o5b2o24bobo$13bo7bobo22b3ob2o$13b2o7bo

22bo$46b3ob2o$48bob2o3$8b2o$7bo2bo$7bo2bo$8b2o10bo$19bobo16b2o13b2o$

19bobo16b2o13b2o$20bo47b2o$67bo2bo$68b2obo$71bo$71b2o$56b2o18b2o$57bo

18bo$54b3o21bo$54bo2b3o14b5o$56bo2bo13bo$55b2o2bobo12b3o$60b2o15bo$74b

4o$69b2o3bo3b2o$69b2o4b3o2bo$3o74bob2o$2bo74bo$bo74b2o3$50bo17b2o$48b

3o17bo$47bo21b3o$47b2o22bo7$37b2o$36bobo5b2o$36bo7b2o$35b2o2$49bo$45b

2obobo$44bobobobo$41bo2bobobobob2o$41b4ob2o2bo2bo$45bo4b2o$43bobo$43b

2o!

#C [[ THUMBNAIL STEP 5 STOP 555 ]]

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