Catagolue Discussion Thread

[Hdjensofjfnen]

While poring through my old hauls I found this. It seems to be a haul submitted by me and subsequently rejected by me. However, this troubles me. Why would I be able to verify my own hauls? If I wanted to, couldn't I skew the results? (If this issue has already been fixed, pardon me; this haul was uploaded in 2016.)

[Moosey]

While poring through my old hauls I found this. It seems to be a haul submitted by me and subsequently rejected by me. However, this troubles me. Why would I be able to verify my own hauls? If I wanted to, couldn't I skew the results? (If this issue has already been fixed, pardon me; this haul was uploaded in 2016.)

I remember some update to apgluxe disallows self-verification.

[testitemqlstudop]

It disallows self-verification when there are less than 10 (20? 30? 50?) hauls in the backlog. Above that self-verification is possible (i.e. an attacker can spam 100 hauls with some extraordinary CPU, and make one of them have a fake Kok's galaxy.)

[muzik]

Could oscillizer be somehow integrated into catagolue (or linked to) so we can get more info on certain oscillators?

[Ian07]

The last few update processes have been timing out, this time because someone on Discord ran transfer.py and decided to submit the results via RLE rather than a Shinjuku merge request: https://catagolue.appspot.com/readsynth

[calcyman]

The last few update processes have been timing out, this time because someone on Discord ran transfer.py and decided to submit the results via RLE rather than a Shinjuku merge request: https://catagolue.appspot.com/readsynth

Wait, this was from transfer.py rather than from collisrc?

[wildmyron]

The last few update processes have been timing out, this time because someone on Discord ran transfer.py and decided to submit the results via RLE rather than a Shinjuku merge request: https://catagolue.appspot.com/readsynth

Wait, this was from transfer.py rather than from collisrc?

IIUC, transfer.py was run on the results from this modified version of collisrc.py and then applied to the known objects in the Shinjuku repository. The transfer.py run was also applied to all the objects in Catagolue without a known synthesis. The complete results were posted in two .sjk files on the Conwaylife Lounge discord (#cgol channel): output_aug5_reductions.sjk and output_aug5_newsynths.sjk

[muzik]

Absolutely insane crackpot idea: What if Catagolue were to become the host of the 5s project somehow, similarly to how it made the wiki's list of Catagolue-investigated rules redundant? I have literally no idea how it would work, but it's something that popped into my head.

[GUYTU6J]

About connecting to catagolue: even with VPN (sometimes a bit unstable) working well and catagolue.appspot.com accessible in my browser, apgsearch failed to upload a haul.

[testitemqlstudop]

Absolutely insane crackpot idea: What if Catagolue were to become the host of the 5s project somehow, similarly to how it made the wiki's list of Catagolue-investigated rules redundant? I have literally no idea how it would work, but it's something that popped into my head.

It can work: Make every spaceship an object, with the following format:

SS<period>_<Xdelta>_<Ydelta>_<rule>_<canonical apgcode>, and have the # of occurrences be equal to 100000 - (its population) so minimum population ships are shown first.

Make sure it becomes a census like b3s23/synthesis_costs or people can destroy the census by uploading hauls.

[testitemqlstudop]

About connecting to catagolue: even with VPN (sometimes a bit unstable) working well and catagolue.appspot.com accessible in my browser, apgsearch failed to upload a haul.

Is your VPN browser-only? Also, apgsearch uploads to gol.hatsya.co.uk by default; it shouldn't fail since ghcu isn't blocked.

[calcyman]

It can work: Make every spaceship an object, with the following format:

SS<period>_<Xdelta>_<Ydelta>_<rule>_<canonical apgcode>, and have the # of occurrences be equal to 100000 - (its population) so minimum population ships are shown first.

Make sure it becomes a census like b3s23/synthesis_costs or people can destroy the census by uploading hauls.

Good idea! I think the closer analogue is to make every velocity an object with the format velocity<period>_<xdelta>_<ydelta>, and include spaceships attaining that velocity as metadata (in the same way we store sample occurrences and glider syntheses).

More fundamentally, though, what would be the advantage of hosting this on Catagolue rather than the existing system?

[testitemqlstudop]

The current hosting on the wiki is broken and requires human updating. The Google Drive hosting - I can't access, and it's also sorted in a terrifically annoying way. Catagolue may allow the updating to be done autonomously and also allow for easy browsing.

[Saka]

More fundamentally, though, what would be the advantage of hosting this on Catagolue rather than the existing system?

Currently, the most up-to-date collection is located at the 5S Google Drive folder as *.txt files. Those files simply contain a list of all ships, and the only separation is by the direction they go in, orthogonal, diagonal, or oblique.

If we put the collection on Catagolue, this would make the collection more accessible and easier to look at / browse through. Although I think the main challenge once this goes up is keeping the Catagolue version up to date, but that should be easier than updating the wiki (I think).

Another problem I can think of are the pages for high-but-=<-100-period ships, since they would be very laggy as there would be lots of ships, each having an animated SVG.

I also think that we need a better way to organize the ships. If we only organize by periods, there would be all of the orthogonals, diagonals, and obliques in each period's tabulation page, which I don't really like because you can't easily tell the direction of the ships in the SVGs, but I guess that's the purpose of including the displacement values in the apgcode.

I also don't think we need to include the rule, as the rule range is displayed on the object page, and it would make the tabulations look nicer in my opinion.

[muzik]

There's a few things that come to mind, if it's to be like the current tabulation:

- Should we come up with a new set of colours for the key that fit better with Catagolue's colour theme?

- The big summary table would have a tab system of sorts, like I've had in mind for a year or so now, so we can control all three values. The bit at the top would have to get thicker and thicker to prevent duplicate entries as we modify one of the displacement values, though.

- The big summary table could also continue on infinitely in all three directions, but split across pages in reasonable increments (144 seems reasonable to me).

- Would it even be worth having the more in-depth pages anyway, or should we scrap them in favour of a summary table? All the info about the ships would be accessible by clicking on the number anyway.

[GUYTU6J]

Hauls submitted to b3s23/C1 that contains 100 million soups will be deleted, right?

[muzik]

The Pattern RLE isnt displaying right; the letters should be capitalized and have slashes preceding them.

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 4k23l01234

[testitemqlstudop]

Hauls submitted to b3s23/C1 that contains 100 million soups will be deleted, right?

Not if they have a discovery

Rule of thumb: 1billion soups+ will most likely have a discovery
For example my sevaral 10billion soup hauls had 10, 12 discoveries.

[GUYTU6J]

Also, apgsearch uploads to gol.hatsya.co.uk by default; it shouldn't fail since ghcu isn't blocked.

Um, since ghcu redirects to catagolue.appspot.com automatically, I am still blocked.

[calcyman]

Also, apgsearch uploads to gol.hatsya.co.uk by default; it shouldn't fail since ghcu isn't blocked.

Um, since ghcu redirects to catagolue.appspot.com automatically, I am still blocked.

Not if you type https://gol.hatsya.co.uk/home (or /census, or whatever). The redirect-to-HTTPS is only if you visit the bare domain.

[muzik]

Can catagolue be made to display minimum and maximum rules for hex patterns?

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... 102/b2s34h

[muzik]

Could the LifeViewer embedded on pages have the grid be disabled and instead have cellborders turned on, to better for how the animated images look?

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B2in3/S123a
b2o$o2bo$4bo$4bo$3bo!
[[ THEME Catagolue CELLBORDERS ]]

[muzik]

I've opened a merge request that contains a big sample of new rule aliases.

[muzik]

Since I don't know how to contribute names to patterns:

"12P2" should become Lei
R-bee on beehive and Hexagonal key should be wiki linked
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq4_1ba4/b3s2-i34q should be named Ant
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 2t50s41t59 should be named Kiwi-grandma

[testitemqlstudop]

The new hauls to X3VI are NOT fake. I just connected about 30 4-core computers at my school to apgsearch.