Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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dvgrn
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » September 19th, 2019, 7:13 am

Okay, I'll admit my ignorance. What's the oddity about that page? Is it just that there's no synthesis, or is it the mysterious comment?

I've submitted a 7G solution to the emphatically nonmagical box:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
11bo$12b2o$11b2o5$14bo$13bo$13b3o$bo$obo$o2bo8b2o$bobo2b2o3b2o$2bo4bo
5bo$3b4o2$3b2o$3b2o!
This seems like something that must have been discovered before -- I haven't looked, just ran synthsise-patt on that R predecessor -- and that transfer.py should have been able to figure out, so maybe that's the oddity. (?) Except I don't think anyone has been ambitious enough to apply transfer.py Lessons Learned to 24-bit still lifes...

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Moosey » September 19th, 2019, 7:16 am

No, it's that it's a "mango long line mango on boat" or whatever when there is a block, not a boat.
I am a prolific creator of many rather pathetic googological functions

My CA rules can be found here

Also, the tree game
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dvgrn
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » September 19th, 2019, 7:18 am

Moosey wrote:No, it's that it's a "mango long line mango on boat" or whatever when there is a block, not a boat.
Ah, thanks. Figured it would be something obvious, but I didn't think it would be _that_ obvious...

Now that I bother to look for prior art, it was (also) silly of me to build a 7G synthesis when there were easy 6G ones:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
11bobo$11b2o$12bo3$bo8b2o$obo6b2o$o2bo7bo$bobo2b2o$2bo4bo$3b4o2$3b2o$
3b2o!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by cordership3 » September 26th, 2019, 11:33 am

fg

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A for awesome
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by A for awesome » November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am

It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Hdjensofjfnen » November 5th, 2019, 3:15 am

A for awesome wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am
It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
The soup for convenience:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bobbbbboboboobbb$
ooobobbobobobobo$
obooboboboobbbbo$
boobboboooobbbob$
oboooobobooobobb$
boobobbbbooboooo$
bobbbboobobbbbbb$
bbobobooooobobbb$
bboboobboooboooo$
oboobboobbboobob$
obbbbboooobboobo$
ooooobbooooobobo$
oobbbobbbbbbobbb$
bbobbooboobbbbob$
boboooobobbobobo$
ooboobobobbbbobo!
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" -Stephen Crane

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Ian07 » December 11th, 2019, 4:37 pm

Current update process seems to not be terminating correctly: https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/catagolue/-/jobs/376636844

EDIT: Finally completed after 10 minutes and 38 seconds, a majority of which was spent on the "Terminating..." step.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Pavgran » December 26th, 2019, 6:55 am

A for awesome wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am
It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
Just found an another soup with similar behavior:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obboobbbooobbbbb$
obobboboboooobbb$
bbbooobooboooobb$
bobbobbbooobobbb$
oboobbbbboobbobb$
ooboboobboboooob$
bobbbbbobboooobo$
bbooooobbboooboo$
bobbbbbbbbbooobo$
bobobobobobboboo$
oobbbbobbbbbbobo$
bbbobboobbboboob$
obooboooooobbbbo$
bbooobbobooooobb$
boobbobobbobobob$
ooobobbbobboboob!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » December 28th, 2019, 4:46 pm

Noticed this morning that the navigation links at the bottom of multi-page lists of things are half broken.

The links at the top for a page like this

Displaying 201 to 400 of 1896 objects ( prev 200 | next 200 )

-- but at the bottom of the page it says that the list stops wherever the current page ends, and you can only go backwards:

Displaying 201 to 400 of 400 objects ( prev 200 )
If someone has already reported this, my apologies. Didn't see it on a quick scan.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » December 28th, 2019, 5:05 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 28th, 2019, 4:46 pm
Noticed this morning that the navigation links at the bottom of multi-page lists of things are half broken.

The links at the top for a page like this

Displaying 201 to 400 of 1896 objects ( prev 200 | next 200 )

-- but at the bottom of the page it says that the list stops wherever the current page ends, and you can only go backwards:

Displaying 201 to 400 of 400 objects ( prev 200 )
If someone has already reported this, my apologies. Didn't see it on a quick scan.
Fixed.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Pavgran » January 27th, 2020, 4:26 am

Why some cases of non-interacting spaceships are combined into one "spaceship"?
For example, here there are cases where the distance between spaceships is always at least 2 squares.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » January 28th, 2020, 11:23 pm

The ninth soup does not produce the expected object.
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... qr6is2eik3
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by 77topaz » February 5th, 2020, 5:12 am

Pavgran wrote:
January 27th, 2020, 4:26 am
Why some cases of non-interacting spaceships are combined into one "spaceship"?
For example, here there are cases where the distance between spaceships is always at least 2 squares.
This happens in a lot of rules, and you can find many examples in earlier pages of this thread, also with oscillators. Usually these are pairs of spaceships where, over the course of one full period, their envelopes will at least slightly overlap. The reason they are combined together likely has to do with apgsearch being coded in such a way that RROs with multiplicity would be detected with the multiplicity, even if the RRO copies do not react on an individual level. Because it's difficult to distinguish such "interesting" combinations from trivial ones algorithmically, I suspect apgoucher/calcyman just had the algorithm err on the side of inclusivity (combine-ity) for the sake of not missing RROs.
muzik wrote:
January 28th, 2020, 11:23 pm
The ninth soup does not produce the expected object.
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... qr6is2eik3
Interesting... here is the soup in question.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3-n45qr6i/S2eik3
ob4ob2ob4o$b3o3bobo2bobo$obo2b4obob2o$2b3o3b2obob2o$4obobob3o2b2o$ob3o
2bo3b5o$3o3bobob2o2b2o$5b2obob3o2bo$ob3ob3o2b2o2bo$4obo3bobo2b2o$bo2b
4obobob3o$o2bobobo5bo$3o3b2o2bobobo$obob2obo2b2obobo$o2bo2bob2ob2o2bo$
4o2bo3b4obo!
I expect the misidentification comes from generation 57, where the spaceship does briefly appear... only for debris behind it to destroy it. Apgsearch must be missing that the spaceship is destroyed by debris, which may be to do with the fact the debris appears behind the ship and not in front of it, so the algorithm may be automatically assuming the spaceship gets away because there's nothing in front of it. This seems like a genuine, novel bug, interesting.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by hkoenig » February 7th, 2020, 11:07 am

77topaz wrote:Apgsearch must be missing that the spaceship is destroyed by debris, which may be to do with the fact the debris appears behind the ship and not in front of it, so the algorithm may be automatically assuming the spaceship gets away because there's nothing in front of it.
When I was doing collision surveys long time ago, detecting oscillators was no problem, but the Gliders were. It seemed every time I thought I came up with a way to detect them shortly after creation, I'd find an exception where two from far away would eventually collide, or some sort of debris from behind would overtake. Eventually I just waited until the Glider was part of the outer edge of the pattern, and at least halfways from the trailing edge of the active region. Simple and stupid. I never even tried to handle orthogonal spaceships, other than as part of the "it lasted over 10,000 gens, complete this manually" processing.

Is there some documentation (other than diving into the code) on how apgsearch does this?

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