## Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
dvgrn
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Posts: 6294
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
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### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Okay, I'll admit my ignorance. What's the oddity about that page? Is it just that there's no synthesis, or is it the mysterious comment?

I've submitted a 7G solution to the emphatically nonmagical box:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
11bo$12b2o$11b2o5$14bo$13bo$13b3o$bo$obo$o2bo8b2o$bobo2b2o3b2o$2bo4bo
5bo$3b4o2$3b2o$3b2o! This seems like something that must have been discovered before -- I haven't looked, just ran synthsise-patt on that R predecessor -- and that transfer.py should have been able to figure out, so maybe that's the oddity. (?) Except I don't think anyone has been ambitious enough to apply transfer.py Lessons Learned to 24-bit still lifes... Moosey Posts: 3056 Joined: January 27th, 2019, 5:54 pm Location: A house, or perhaps the OCA board. Or [click to not expand] Contact: ### Re: Catagolue Oddities No, it's that it's a "mango long line mango on boat" or whatever when there is a block, not a boat. I am a prolific creator of many rather pathetic googological functions My CA rules can be found here Also, the tree game Bill Watterson once wrote: "How do soldiers killing each other solve the world's problems?" dvgrn Moderator Posts: 6294 Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm Location: Madison, WI Contact: ### Re: Catagolue Oddities Moosey wrote:No, it's that it's a "mango long line mango on boat" or whatever when there is a block, not a boat. Ah, thanks. Figured it would be something obvious, but I didn't think it would be _that_ obvious... Now that I bother to look for prior art, it was (also) silly of me to build a 7G synthesis when there were easy 6G ones: Code: Select all x = 14, y = 14, rule = B3/S23 11bobo$11b2o$12bo3$bo8b2o$obo6b2o$o2bo7bo$bobo2b2o$2bo4bo$3b4o2$3b2o$3b2o! cordership3 Posts: 128 Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 8:53 am Location: haha long boy ### Re: Catagolue Oddities fg A for awesome Posts: 1950 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: 0x-1 Contact: ### Re: Catagolue Oddities It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23 x₁=ηx V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt) $$x_1=\eta x$$ $$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$ $$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$ $$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$ http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all Aidan F. Pierce Hdjensofjfnen Posts: 1478 Joined: March 15th, 2016, 6:41 pm Location: r cis θ ### Re: Catagolue Oddities A for awesome wrote: November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23 The soup for convenience: Code: Select all x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23 bobbbbboboboobbb$
ooobobbobobobobo$obooboboboobbbbo$
boobboboooobbbob$oboooobobooobobb$
boobobbbbooboooo$bobbbboobobbbbbb$
bbobobooooobobbb$bboboobboooboooo$
oboobboobbboobob$obbbbboooobboobo$
ooooobbooooobobo$oobbbobbbbbbobbb$
bbobbooboobbbbob$boboooobobbobobo$
ooboobobobbbbobo!
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" -Stephen Crane

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!


Ian07
Posts: 486
Joined: September 22nd, 2018, 8:48 am

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Current update process seems to not be terminating correctly: https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/catagolue/-/jobs/376636844

EDIT: Finally completed after 10 minutes and 38 seconds, a majority of which was spent on the "Terminating..." step.

Pavgran
Posts: 25
Joined: June 12th, 2019, 12:14 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

A for awesome wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am
It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
Just found an another soup with similar behavior:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obboobbbooobbbbb$obobboboboooobbb$
bbbooobooboooobb$bobbobbbooobobbb$
oboobbbbboobbobb$ooboboobboboooob$
bobbbbbobboooobo$bbooooobbboooboo$
bobbbbbbbbbooobo$bobobobobobboboo$
oobbbbobbbbbbobo$bbbobboobbboboob$
obooboooooobbbbo$bbooobbobooooobb$
boobbobobbobobob$ooobobbbobboboob!  dvgrn Moderator Posts: 6294 Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm Location: Madison, WI Contact: ### Re: Catagolue Oddities Noticed this morning that the navigation links at the bottom of multi-page lists of things are half broken. The links at the top for a page like this Displaying 201 to 400 of 1896 objects ( prev 200 | next 200 ) -- but at the bottom of the page it says that the list stops wherever the current page ends, and you can only go backwards: Displaying 201 to 400 of 400 objects ( prev 200 ) If someone has already reported this, my apologies. Didn't see it on a quick scan. calcyman Posts: 2127 Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm ### Re: Catagolue Oddities dvgrn wrote: December 28th, 2019, 4:46 pm Noticed this morning that the navigation links at the bottom of multi-page lists of things are half broken. The links at the top for a page like this Displaying 201 to 400 of 1896 objects ( prev 200 | next 200 ) -- but at the bottom of the page it says that the list stops wherever the current page ends, and you can only go backwards: Displaying 201 to 400 of 400 objects ( prev 200 ) If someone has already reported this, my apologies. Didn't see it on a quick scan. Fixed. What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic! Pavgran Posts: 25 Joined: June 12th, 2019, 12:14 pm ### Re: Catagolue Oddities Why some cases of non-interacting spaceships are combined into one "spaceship"? For example, here there are cases where the distance between spaceships is always at least 2 squares. muzik Posts: 3774 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Catagolue Oddities The ninth soup does not produce the expected object. https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... qr6is2eik3 Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! 77topaz Posts: 1467 Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm ### Re: Catagolue Oddities Pavgran wrote: January 27th, 2020, 4:26 am Why some cases of non-interacting spaceships are combined into one "spaceship"? For example, here there are cases where the distance between spaceships is always at least 2 squares. This happens in a lot of rules, and you can find many examples in earlier pages of this thread, also with oscillators. Usually these are pairs of spaceships where, over the course of one full period, their envelopes will at least slightly overlap. The reason they are combined together likely has to do with apgsearch being coded in such a way that RROs with multiplicity would be detected with the multiplicity, even if the RRO copies do not react on an individual level. Because it's difficult to distinguish such "interesting" combinations from trivial ones algorithmically, I suspect apgoucher/calcyman just had the algorithm err on the side of inclusivity (combine-ity) for the sake of not missing RROs. muzik wrote: January 28th, 2020, 11:23 pm The ninth soup does not produce the expected object. https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... qr6is2eik3 Interesting... here is the soup in question. Code: Select all x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3-n45qr6i/S2eik3 ob4ob2ob4o$b3o3bobo2bobo$obo2b4obob2o$2b3o3b2obob2o$4obobob3o2b2o$ob3o
2bo3b5o$3o3bobob2o2b2o$5b2obob3o2bo$ob3ob3o2b2o2bo$4obo3bobo2b2o$bo2b 4obobob3o$o2bobobo5bo$3o3b2o2bobobo$obob2obo2b2obobo$o2bo2bob2ob2o2bo$
4o2bo3b4obo!

I expect the misidentification comes from generation 57, where the spaceship does briefly appear... only for debris behind it to destroy it. Apgsearch must be missing that the spaceship is destroyed by debris, which may be to do with the fact the debris appears behind the ship and not in front of it, so the algorithm may be automatically assuming the spaceship gets away because there's nothing in front of it. This seems like a genuine, novel bug, interesting.

hkoenig
Posts: 123
Joined: June 20th, 2009, 11:40 am

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

77topaz wrote:Apgsearch must be missing that the spaceship is destroyed by debris, which may be to do with the fact the debris appears behind the ship and not in front of it, so the algorithm may be automatically assuming the spaceship gets away because there's nothing in front of it.
When I was doing collision surveys long time ago, detecting oscillators was no problem, but the Gliders were. It seemed every time I thought I came up with a way to detect them shortly after creation, I'd find an exception where two from far away would eventually collide, or some sort of debris from behind would overtake. Eventually I just waited until the Glider was part of the outer edge of the pattern, and at least halfways from the trailing edge of the active region. Simple and stupid. I never even tried to handle orthogonal spaceships, other than as part of the "it lasted over 10,000 gens, complete this manually" processing.

Is there some documentation (other than diving into the code) on how apgsearch does this?