Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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Majestas32
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Majestas32 » December 19th, 2017, 1:15 am

I mean generations rules are bad, but this is by far the most egregious example of a pseudo still life I've seen on catagolue. https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xs ... g3b348s238

Yes, this has 6 occurrences. And yes, there are similar "xs" 36, 40, and 66 with 2 occurrences each. (I blame the p444 21c/74 puffer honestly).

EDIT: Also some of the "xs" 8, 12, and 16 are just random CONSTELLATIONS of blocks not even pseudo still lives. There's not even xs8_rr! WTF
Last edited by Majestas32 on December 19th, 2017, 2:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Apple Bottom
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » December 19th, 2017, 1:56 am

Majestas32 wrote:https://goo.gl/QHm11C
Could you please not use URL shorteners?
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

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Majestas32
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Majestas32 » December 19th, 2017, 2:36 am

Apple Bottom wrote:
Majestas32 wrote:https://goo.gl/QHm11C
Could you please not use URL shorteners?
Fixed (but why, may I ask?)
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Apple Bottom
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » December 19th, 2017, 2:44 am

Majestas32 wrote:Fixed (but why, may I ask?)
It's just nicer to be able to see what object's being talked about right away. If the board software is sufficiently smart it'll also index the object's code and make it findable (less important in this particular case, maybe...!)
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

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Majestas32
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Majestas32 » December 19th, 2017, 3:03 am

*subtle nod to try to get you to apgsearch this rule*
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by mniemiec » December 19th, 2017, 5:46 am

Majestas32 wrote:Fixed (but why, may I ask?)
Apple Bottom wrote:It's just nicer to be able to see what object's being talked about right away. If the board software is sufficiently smart it'll also index the object's code and make it findable (less important in this particular case, maybe...!)
It should still be fairly easy - navigating to the URL shortener will redirect to the actual Catagolue page; the apgode could then be easily copied from browser URL bar.

This "object" seems like a spectacular fail in the constellation separation algorithm. I'm curious if this was found with a hacked version of apgsearch?

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » December 19th, 2017, 7:34 am

Majestas32 wrote:*subtle nod to try to get you to apgsearch this rule*
No subtle nods needed, just asking nicely is (usually) enough to get me to help.
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

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Majestas32
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Majestas32 » December 19th, 2017, 12:28 pm

mniemiec wrote:
Majestas32 wrote:Fixed (but why, may I ask?)
Apple Bottom wrote:It's just nicer to be able to see what object's being talked about right away. If the board software is sufficiently smart it'll also index the object's code and make it findable (less important in this particular case, maybe...!)
It should still be fairly easy - navigating to the URL shortener will redirect to the actual Catagolue page; the apgode could then be easily copied from browser URL bar.

This "object" seems like a spectacular fail in the constellation separation algorithm. I'm curious if this was found with a hacked version of apgsearch?
Nope, just the current version of apgluxe 4.2

And currently there are fake xs8, xs12, xs16, xs18, xs20, xs24, xs28, xs30, xs36, xs40, xs50, xs54, xs62, and xs66 -- all but the xs8 have even numbers of occurrences and the xs62 has occurred 18 times so it's not just a one-off.

There are also ov_s72, ov_s76, ov_s92, ov_s204, and ov_s212 with all but the s204 with even numbers of occurrences and the s72 and s76 have each occurred 40 times.
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calcyman
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » December 19th, 2017, 12:43 pm

I haven't yet implemented oscillator separation for multi-state rules, which is why constellations can be censused whenever there's a messy puffer in a Generations rule.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by mniemiec » December 19th, 2017, 2:28 pm

calcyman wrote:I haven't yet implemented oscillator separation for multi-state rules, which is why constellations can be censused whenever there's a messy puffer in a Generations rule.
Once you have the constellation as a single "object", why not then run another separation on that all by itself? The one mentioned above is "obviously" (with a sufficiently heuristic definition of "obvious") made up of smaller pieces. In any event, if anything has aleady been determined to be a still-life, survival rules should be irrelevant. Birth rules are only relevant for things like not splitting an aircraft carrier into two separate trominos.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Majestas32 » December 19th, 2017, 2:33 pm

I mean this is probably the first yl apgsearched in a generations rule so...
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calcyman
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » December 19th, 2017, 3:21 pm

mniemiec wrote:
calcyman wrote:I haven't yet implemented oscillator separation for multi-state rules, which is why constellations can be censused whenever there's a messy puffer in a Generations rule.
Once you have the constellation as a single "object", why not then run another separation on that all by itself?
Great idea! I've now opted for the simplest approach of recursively calling 'census' (with a maximum depth of 1) whenever advanced object separation is unavailable. That should correctly handle dying debris in B0/Generations rules:

https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/apgmera
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » December 20th, 2017, 2:12 pm

Majestas32 wrote:I mean this is probably the first yl apgsearched in a generations rule so...
Hardly:

Code: Select all

sqlite> select rule, count(distinct code) as cnt from census where type="yl" and generations="1" group by rule order by cnt desc;
g4b34s23                 91
g10b34578s2378           79
g8b3s345                 67
g10b345s345              35
g9b3468s235678           24
g8b37s345                13
g4b35s23567              12
g4b34678s24568           10
g5b3s23                   6
g20b3s23                  4
g4b34578s2378             4
g7b3s23                   4
g10b2s0345                3
g4b3678s235678            3
g6b3s23                   3
g8b3s23                   3
g9b3s23                   3
g18b3s23                  2
g19b3s23                  2
g3b345s23                 2
g8b34s23                  2
g10b3s23                  1
g3b3578s2378              1
g3b36s125                 1
g4b3s23                   1
g5b26s345                 1
g5b35678s23               1
g5b37s23                  1
g6b35678s23               1
g7b2s0                    1
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

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lifeisawesome
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by lifeisawesome » December 22nd, 2017, 6:41 pm

danny wrote:stop
k fine
Last edited by lifeisawesome on January 2nd, 2018, 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--Szymon Bartosiewicz
favorite pattern:

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 2, rule = B25/S3a
2o$2o!

Saka
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » January 2nd, 2018, 1:22 am

Catagolue has user pages for nonexistent users.

Which can also be turned into things like this
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

tophattingson
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by tophattingson » January 4th, 2018, 9:27 am

Catagolue seems to have difficulty separating spaceships from other spaceships in Isotropic non-totalistic Life-like rules. I suspect it's because the lagging spaceship enters the bounding box of the main spaceship during a complete period?

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... /b3-n4ns23

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » January 4th, 2018, 9:37 am

That's a really well known issue.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by mniemiec » January 4th, 2018, 1:16 pm

tophattingson wrote:Catagolue seems to have difficulty separating spaceships from other spaceships in Isotropic non-totalistic Life-like rules. I suspect it's because the lagging spaceship enters the bounding box of the main spaceship during a complete period?
This is also a problem with the Life rule itself.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » January 13th, 2018, 9:02 am

Another "Magic Pattern" incident,
At the page for this xq264, the only listed soup:

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 31, rule = B2n3aijr4i5ceky6ci/S2-n3-ac4cinty5-aery6-ck7e
bbooooobobboboboobobobbobooooobb$
oooobbbobobbooobbooobbobobbboooo$
oobobobboboboobooboobobobboboboo$
oobobobbobbbbboooobbbbbobboboboo$
bobobbboooooooooooooooooobbbobob$
obbobobboooobooooooboooobbobobbo$
obbbbbbbobooooobbooooobobbbbbbbo$
oobboobbboobobboobboboobbboobboo$
ooobooboooobboobboobbooooboobooo$
oobooobboobbbbboobbbbboobboooboo$
obbooooobbobbboooobbbobbooooobbo$
oooboobobbboboboobobobbboboobooo$
bboboboobbooboobbooboobboobobobb$
obobobobboobboboobobboobbobobobo$
bobobbboobbboooooooobbboobbbobob$
obboobooobooooboobooooboooboobbo$
bobobbboobbboooooooobbboobbbobob$
obobobobboobboboobobboobbobobobo$
bboboboobbooboobbooboobboobobobb$
oooboobobbboboboobobobbboboobooo$
obbooooobbobbboooobbbobbooooobbo$
oobooobboobbbbboobbbbboobboooboo$
ooobooboooobboobboobbooooboobooo$
oobboobbboobobboobboboobbboobboo$
obbbbbbbobooooobbooooobobbbbbbbo$
obbobobboooobooooooboooobbobobbo$
bobobbboooooooooooooooooobbbobob$
oobobobbobbbbboooobbbbbobboboboo$
oobobobboboboobooboobobobboboboo$
oooobbbobobbooobbooobbobobbboooo$
bbooooobobboboboobobobbobooooobb!
does not actually produce the pattern but the pattern is an actual valid ship:

Code: Select all

x = 68, y = 10, rule = B2n3aijr4i5ceky6ci/S2-n3-ac4cinty5-aery6-ck7e
3o62b3o$obo62bobo$o2bo3b2o3b3o38b3o3b2o3bo2bo$b4obobo3bobo38bobo3bobob
4o$5bo2bo3b2o40b2o3bo2bo3$21bo6b2o8b2o6bo$20bobo5b2o8b2o5bobo$21bo6b2o
8b2o6bo!
:?

EDIT:
And for xq604_cksxs48g8cb97zylgy6fzyl3zzyfqie too :? :?
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

Saka
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » January 14th, 2018, 7:50 am

Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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Rhombic
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Rhombic » January 17th, 2018, 6:47 am

I submitted a ~6500000 soup haul to B3/S23, it did get to "uncommitted hauls" yet then disappeared and it has not been committed. Has it ben rejected? If so, why?!
EDIT: It has now been committed. However, for about 3-5 minutes the haul was nowhere to be seen!
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Saka
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » January 17th, 2018, 7:24 am

Rhombic wrote:...However, for about 3-5 minutes the haul was nowhere to be seen!
That happens to me as well and I also dont know why and can be worrying, but I've learned to be patient.
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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danny
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by danny » January 17th, 2018, 5:22 pm

she/her // danielle

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mniemiec
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by mniemiec » January 17th, 2018, 11:02 pm

Only half of the objects listed here are correct:
xp6_37eso: the first and last soups totally die, not producing the object. Some others do.
xp6_w5evelz23: correct.
xp6_0ggkkllllkkggzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa88z1155llllllllllll55zy222aaaa22: apgcode is not even valid.
xp6_0kkllkkz0giiiigz9bbaabb9z11555511: correct.
xp6_6gfzw60f: the only soup makes only a P2.
xp6_fg6zs0v0u0oz1070f03: the only soup makes only two P2s and a glider.
xp6_mkllllkmz0nggggnz22aaaa22: correct.
xp6_y0gw5alakzo0u0v0fz30701: correct.

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danny
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by danny » January 20th, 2018, 1:33 pm

Yet another 'weird looking oscillator', this time p8 and quite different.

Here is the link to the page containing said 'weird looking oscillator'.
It's the 1375th object in the haul, and the soup is quite boring, as it only gives a couple standard still lifes and oscillators:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 31, rule = B2e3ain4-cjqtw5ceiry6-ac78/S2ac3ajknq4eiqwy5-ain6-e78
booooooboboboobobooboboboooooob$
ooooooooboooooobooooooboooooooo$
oobbbbooooooooboboooooooobbbboo$
ooboooooobooooboboooobooooooboo$
oobooobobbbbbbbbbbbbbbboboooboo$
ooboooobbbbbbobobobbbbbbooooboo$
oooobobbbooboooboooboobbboboooo$
boooobbbbbooboooooboobbbbboooob$
oboobbbbbbbbbbbobbbbbbbbbbboobo$
boobbbobbobbbbbobbbbbobbobbboob$
oooobboobbbobobbbobobbboobboooo$
booobbbobbooooobooooobbobbbooob$
oooobbobbbbooooboooobbbbobboooo$
oooobooobbooobbbbbooobboooboooo$
bobbbboobbboobbobboobbboobbbbob$
oboobobooobbbbooobbbboooboboobo$
bobbbboobbboobbobboobbboobbbbob$
oooobooobbooobbbbbooobboooboooo$
oooobbobbbbooooboooobbbbobboooo$
booobbbobbooooobooooobbobbbooob$
oooobboobbbobobbbobobbboobboooo$
boobbbobbobbbbbobbbbbobbobbboob$
oboobbbbbbbbbbbobbbbbbbbbbboobo$
boooobbbbbooboooooboobbbbboooob$
oooobobbbooboooboooboobbboboooo$
ooboooobbbbbbobobobbbbbbooooboo$
oobooobobbbbbbbbbbbbbbboboooboo$
ooboooooobooooboboooobooooooboo$
oobbbbooooooooboboooooooobbbboo$
ooooooooboooooobooooooboooooooo$
booooooboboboobobooboboboooooob!
The pattern itself doesn't even do anything of note!:

Code: Select all

x = 25, y = 25, rule = B2e3ain4-cjqtw5ceiry6-ac78/S2ac3ajknq4eiqwy5-ain6-e78
7b4o2$5b8o2$3b12o2$b16o$o$b18o2$2b19o2$b22o2$2b23o2$4b20o2$6b16o2$8b
12o2$10b8o2$12b4o!
she/her // danielle

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

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