Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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dvgrn
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » September 19th, 2019, 7:13 am

Okay, I'll admit my ignorance. What's the oddity about that page? Is it just that there's no synthesis, or is it the mysterious comment?

I've submitted a 7G solution to the emphatically nonmagical box:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
11bo$12b2o$11b2o5$14bo$13bo$13b3o$bo$obo$o2bo8b2o$bobo2b2o3b2o$2bo4bo
5bo$3b4o2$3b2o$3b2o!
This seems like something that must have been discovered before -- I haven't looked, just ran synthsise-patt on that R predecessor -- and that transfer.py should have been able to figure out, so maybe that's the oddity. (?) Except I don't think anyone has been ambitious enough to apply transfer.py Lessons Learned to 24-bit still lifes...

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Moosey » September 19th, 2019, 7:16 am

No, it's that it's a "mango long line mango on boat" or whatever when there is a block, not a boat.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » September 19th, 2019, 7:18 am

Moosey wrote:No, it's that it's a "mango long line mango on boat" or whatever when there is a block, not a boat.
Ah, thanks. Figured it would be something obvious, but I didn't think it would be _that_ obvious...

Now that I bother to look for prior art, it was (also) silly of me to build a 7G synthesis when there were easy 6G ones:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
11bobo$11b2o$12bo3$bo8b2o$obo6b2o$o2bo7bo$bobo2b2o$2bo4bo$3b4o2$3b2o$
3b2o!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by cordership3 » September 26th, 2019, 11:33 am

fg

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by A for awesome » November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am

It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Hdjensofjfnen » November 5th, 2019, 3:15 am

A for awesome wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am
It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
The soup for convenience:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bobbbbboboboobbb$
ooobobbobobobobo$
obooboboboobbbbo$
boobboboooobbbob$
oboooobobooobobb$
boobobbbbooboooo$
bobbbboobobbbbbb$
bbobobooooobobbb$
bboboobboooboooo$
oboobboobbboobob$
obbbbboooobboobo$
ooooobbooooobobo$
oobbbobbbbbbobbb$
bbobbooboobbbbob$
boboooobobbobobo$
ooboobobobbbbobo!
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" -Stephen Crane

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Ian07 » December 11th, 2019, 4:37 pm

Current update process seems to not be terminating correctly: https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/catagolue/-/jobs/376636844

EDIT: Finally completed after 10 minutes and 38 seconds, a majority of which was spent on the "Terminating..." step.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Pavgran » December 26th, 2019, 6:55 am

A for awesome wrote:
November 4th, 2019, 2:34 am
It appears that, in the rare case that an internal glider collision (after a sufficient lapse) "restarts" a soup which later produces a block-laying switch engine, the switch engine is at least sometimes misclassified: https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl ... 18e7/b3s23
Just found an another soup with similar behavior:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obboobbbooobbbbb$
obobboboboooobbb$
bbbooobooboooobb$
bobbobbbooobobbb$
oboobbbbboobbobb$
ooboboobboboooob$
bobbbbbobboooobo$
bbooooobbboooboo$
bobbbbbbbbbooobo$
bobobobobobboboo$
oobbbbobbbbbbobo$
bbbobboobbboboob$
obooboooooobbbbo$
bbooobbobooooobb$
boobbobobbobobob$
ooobobbbobboboob!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » December 28th, 2019, 4:46 pm

Noticed this morning that the navigation links at the bottom of multi-page lists of things are half broken.

The links at the top for a page like this

Displaying 201 to 400 of 1896 objects ( prev 200 | next 200 )

-- but at the bottom of the page it says that the list stops wherever the current page ends, and you can only go backwards:

Displaying 201 to 400 of 400 objects ( prev 200 )
If someone has already reported this, my apologies. Didn't see it on a quick scan.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » December 28th, 2019, 5:05 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 28th, 2019, 4:46 pm
Noticed this morning that the navigation links at the bottom of multi-page lists of things are half broken.

The links at the top for a page like this

Displaying 201 to 400 of 1896 objects ( prev 200 | next 200 )

-- but at the bottom of the page it says that the list stops wherever the current page ends, and you can only go backwards:

Displaying 201 to 400 of 400 objects ( prev 200 )
If someone has already reported this, my apologies. Didn't see it on a quick scan.
Fixed.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Pavgran » January 27th, 2020, 4:26 am

Why some cases of non-interacting spaceships are combined into one "spaceship"?
For example, here there are cases where the distance between spaceships is always at least 2 squares.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » January 28th, 2020, 11:23 pm

The ninth soup does not produce the expected object.
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... qr6is2eik3
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by 77topaz » February 5th, 2020, 5:12 am

Pavgran wrote:
January 27th, 2020, 4:26 am
Why some cases of non-interacting spaceships are combined into one "spaceship"?
For example, here there are cases where the distance between spaceships is always at least 2 squares.
This happens in a lot of rules, and you can find many examples in earlier pages of this thread, also with oscillators. Usually these are pairs of spaceships where, over the course of one full period, their envelopes will at least slightly overlap. The reason they are combined together likely has to do with apgsearch being coded in such a way that RROs with multiplicity would be detected with the multiplicity, even if the RRO copies do not react on an individual level. Because it's difficult to distinguish such "interesting" combinations from trivial ones algorithmically, I suspect apgoucher/calcyman just had the algorithm err on the side of inclusivity (combine-ity) for the sake of not missing RROs.
muzik wrote:
January 28th, 2020, 11:23 pm
The ninth soup does not produce the expected object.
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... qr6is2eik3
Interesting... here is the soup in question.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3-n45qr6i/S2eik3
ob4ob2ob4o$b3o3bobo2bobo$obo2b4obob2o$2b3o3b2obob2o$4obobob3o2b2o$ob3o
2bo3b5o$3o3bobob2o2b2o$5b2obob3o2bo$ob3ob3o2b2o2bo$4obo3bobo2b2o$bo2b
4obobob3o$o2bobobo5bo$3o3b2o2bobobo$obob2obo2b2obobo$o2bo2bob2ob2o2bo$
4o2bo3b4obo!
I expect the misidentification comes from generation 57, where the spaceship does briefly appear... only for debris behind it to destroy it. Apgsearch must be missing that the spaceship is destroyed by debris, which may be to do with the fact the debris appears behind the ship and not in front of it, so the algorithm may be automatically assuming the spaceship gets away because there's nothing in front of it. This seems like a genuine, novel bug, interesting.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by hkoenig » February 7th, 2020, 11:07 am

77topaz wrote:Apgsearch must be missing that the spaceship is destroyed by debris, which may be to do with the fact the debris appears behind the ship and not in front of it, so the algorithm may be automatically assuming the spaceship gets away because there's nothing in front of it.
When I was doing collision surveys long time ago, detecting oscillators was no problem, but the Gliders were. It seemed every time I thought I came up with a way to detect them shortly after creation, I'd find an exception where two from far away would eventually collide, or some sort of debris from behind would overtake. Eventually I just waited until the Glider was part of the outer edge of the pattern, and at least halfways from the trailing edge of the active region. Simple and stupid. I never even tried to handle orthogonal spaceships, other than as part of the "it lasted over 10,000 gens, complete this manually" processing.

Is there some documentation (other than diving into the code) on how apgsearch does this?

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by GUYTU6J » February 24th, 2020, 10:32 am

What can I do when seeing some weird syntheses in Catagolue? Some of them are failed attempts like xs26_y733zzoozxcczx66y4oozzye4aa4 and xs26_696zoowcczzzy38kk8zxcic. But I totally miss the point of this expensive xs12_252y7252ya252 synthesis:

Code: Select all

#C [[ GRID MAXGRIDSIZE 14 THEME Catagolue ]] 
#CSYNTH xs12_252y7252ya252 costs 15 gliders (pseudo).
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 197, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
7bo39bo49bo65bo$7bobo37bobo47bobo64bo26bo$7b2o38b2o48b2o63b3o12bo
14bo$2bo39bo49bo82bobo12b3o$obo37bobo47bobo83b2o$b2o3bobo32b2o3bob
o8bo33b2o3bobo11bo13bo34bo3bo16bo13bo$6b2o38b2o8bobo37b2o11bobo11b
obo31bobo2bobo8b2o4bobo6b2o3bobo$7bo39bo9bobo37bo12bobo11bobo31b2o
3bobo6bobo5bobo4bobo4bobo$58bo52bo13bo38bo9bo6bo7bo5bo!
Lifewiki: User:GUYTU6J
---
Someone please find a use for this:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
6bo$6bobo$5bo2bo$b2o3b2o$o2bo$bobo$2bo!
#C [[ COLOR BACKGROUND 255 200 82 COLOR ALIVE 81 143 51 ]]

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » February 24th, 2020, 3:09 pm

The rightmost panel was probably submitted to the nonmagical box (intended to be multiple ways to shorten a barge), and transfer.py later automatically found the sequence of steps to produce those 3 barges.

In general, all of these really weird synthesis oddities are some combination of human error and automated synthesis search programs.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by GUYTU6J » February 29th, 2020, 7:32 am

A small bug: the catagolue page for Simkin's p60 doesn't link to the lifewiki page correctly.
Lifewiki: User:GUYTU6J
---
Someone please find a use for this:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
6bo$6bobo$5bo2bo$b2o3b2o$o2bo$bobo$2bo!
#C [[ COLOR BACKGROUND 255 200 82 COLOR ALIVE 81 143 51 ]]

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » February 29th, 2020, 7:54 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
February 29th, 2020, 7:32 am
A small bug: the catagolue page for Simkin's p60 doesn't link to the lifewiki page correctly.
Thanks; I've added a #REDIRECT on the wiki so everything works now.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Ian07 » March 7th, 2020, 6:45 pm

This 52-bit still life apparently has zero sample soups, despite the fact that A. its recipe is literally just blinker + 2 pi:

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
obo$obo$3o4$bo$bo$bo4$3o$obo$obo!
and B. it was first reported by knightlife in January 2015, presumably with one of the symmetry options of apgsearch 0.x.

I thought this might be because it was just too common in those symmetries for Catagolue to bother storing sample soups, like what happens with block, but neither D2_+1 nor D4_+1 seem to have this object at all.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by A for awesome » March 7th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Ian07 wrote:
March 7th, 2020, 6:45 pm
This 52-bit still life apparently has zero sample soups, despite the fact that A. its recipe is literally just blinker + 2 pi:

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
obo$obo$3o4$bo$bo$bo4$3o$obo$obo!
It's a pseudo-object, so doesn't get reported explicitly. It's composed of two copies of xs26_69ab9cz695d93, which has plenty of sample soups.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Ian07 » March 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm

A for awesome wrote:
March 7th, 2020, 7:21 pm
It's a pseudo-object, so doesn't get reported explicitly. It's composed of two copies of xs26_69ab9cz695d93, which has plenty of sample soups.
:oops: In my defense, it looks a bit like xs60_g8o1v0v1o8gzhaaah0haaahz123gv0vg321 which is in fact a single object. (also knightlife didn't specify that it was a pseudo-object so I just assumed without looking)

EDIT: It occurred naturally in April 2015.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Hunting » March 11th, 2020, 5:31 am

This page says the xs34 have 5079 occurrences in the 1x256 symmetry, but This page does not give any sample soups.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Hdjensofjfnen » March 13th, 2020, 11:49 am

Hunting wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 5:31 am
... but This page does not give any sample soups.
It does?
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" -Stephen Crane

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by dvgrn » March 13th, 2020, 12:19 pm

Hdjensofjfnen wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 11:49 am
Hunting wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 5:31 am
... but This page does not give any sample soups.
It does?
"... does not give any sample soups [with the 1x256 symmetry]" was the implication in the original message, I think.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Hdjensofjfnen » March 13th, 2020, 12:32 pm

dvgrn wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 12:19 pm
Hdjensofjfnen wrote:
March 13th, 2020, 11:49 am
Hunting wrote:
March 11th, 2020, 5:31 am
... but This page does not give any sample soups.
It does?
"... does not give any sample soups [with the 1x256 symmetry]" was the implication in the original message, I think.
Ah. That is a bit odd.
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" -Stephen Crane

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!

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