For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.

wildmyron
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 Location: Western Australia
Post
by wildmyron » October 16th, 2020, 1:53 am
wwei23 wrote: ↑October 16th, 2020, 12:09 am
But you can insert a domino while interacting with the pattern in a way that still allows the MWSS to be created.
Code: Select all
5bo$3b5o$b9o$3b5o$b2o5b2o$obbo4b2o$obbo$booboo$3bobbo$3bobbo$4b2o!
I was very pessimistic, but JLS gives it a chance. No idea if synthesis is feasible, but there are numerous similar sparks so it seems there's a chance.
Code: Select all
x = 15, y = 11
4bo5bo$5obobob5o$6b3o$$3boo5boo$bbobbo4boo$bbobbo$3booboo$5bobbo$5bobbo$6boo!
The latest version of the
5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub
mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on
the LifeWiki.

mniemiec
 Posts: 1205
 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am
Post
by mniemiec » October 16th, 2020, 2:45 pm
You don't even need a block; an approaching glider can do just as well.
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bo$boobbo3b3o9boobbo4bo$obbo16bobbo5boo$obbo16bobbo5bobo$booboo
15booboo$3bobbo16bobbo$3bobbo16bobbo$4boo18boo!

wwei23
 Posts: 1842
 Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
 Location: The (Life?) Universe
Post
by wwei23 » October 16th, 2020, 3:54 pm
Completed:
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2bo$3bo$b3o8bo$11bo$4b2o5b3o$4bobo$6bo$b2o3b2o$o2bo$o2bo$b2ob2o5b2o$3b
o2bo4bobo$3bo2bo4bo$4b2o!
@Hunting so we're making a referential signature chain?

Trump {Bot}
 Posts: 67
 Joined: October 12th, 2020, 10:02 pm
 Location: United States
Post
by Trump {Bot} » October 18th, 2020, 7:57 pm
Is there a pentadecathlon predecessor that evolves into another pentadecathlon predecessor?
Are there any Unit Non Totalistic Cellular Automaton Cells in Life?
Are Unit Wireworld Cells Possible?

mniemiec
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 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am
Post
by mniemiec » October 18th, 2020, 8:15 pm
1. No (it's a troll), 2. Yes, 3. Yes
Trump {Bot} wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 7:57 pm
Is there a pentadecathlon predecessor that evolves into another pentadecathlon predecessor?
Are there any Unit Non Totalistic Cellular Automaton Cells in Life?
Are Unit Wireworld Cells Possible?
1. Yes. Every ngeneration pentadecathlon predecessor (n>0) evolves into an n1generation pentadecathlon predecessor.
2. Yes. Since Life is universal, all CAs that can be emulated by any computer can be emulated in Life. I don't know if anyone has actually constructed ones for nontotalistic CAs yet, but it's definitely possible.
3. Yes. See 2.

MathAndCode
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 Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm
Post
by MathAndCode » October 18th, 2020, 8:18 pm
mniemiec wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 8:15 pm
2. Yes. Since Life is universal, all CAs that can be emulated by any computer can be emulated in Life. I don't know if anyone has actually constructed ones for nontotalistic CAs yet, but it's definitely possible.
The
0E0P metacell has that capability, although it is only designed for twostate rules (as opposed to Wireworld rules).

dvgrn
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by dvgrn » October 18th, 2020, 8:44 pm
MathAndCode wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 8:18 pm
mniemiec wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 8:15 pm
2. Yes. Since Life is universal, all CAs that can be emulated by any computer can be emulated in Life. I don't know if anyone has actually constructed ones for nontotalistic CAs yet, but it's definitely possible.
The
0E0P metacell has that capability, although it is only designed for twostate rules (as opposed to Wireworld rules).
Specifically, if you run the
neighborhood simplifier script on something like
Code: Select all
x = 1, y = 1, rule = MAPQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
o!
... you'll get a rule that shows exactly what an 0E0P metacell would do if programmed with that particular nontotalistic rule.
It takes a little more work (i.e., calls to lifelib) to actually build the Life pattern for that correctlyprogrammed 0E0P metacell, and then you can't run it through even one full metatick in a reasonable amount of time anyway. But technically this is a complete answer to the question, in practice and not just in theory.

wwei23
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 Location: The (Life?) Universe
Post
by wwei23 » October 18th, 2020, 9:30 pm
Wasn't Gustavo's conjecture that the Caterpillar could be synthesized in less than 386 gliders, assuming it could be synthesized at all, the original inspiration for making a reverse cabertosser?
@Hunting so we're making a referential signature chain?

MathAndCode
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Post
by MathAndCode » October 18th, 2020, 11:00 pm
wwei23 wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 9:30 pm
Wasn't Gustavo's conjecture that the Caterpillar could be synthesized in less than 386 gliders, assuming it could be synthesized at all, the original inspiration for making a reverse cabertosser?
It definitely could have been the inspiration. However, contrary to popular belief, Gustavo did not actually invent the reverse cabertosser. He obviously did not invent—or even understand—the supposed universal constructor because:
 He claimed that the information was encoded in the distance to a glider instead of some moving glider reflector. (It would be theoretically possible to make a universal constructor based on the former by making a binary counter then augmenting it until the glider arrived, but it would be much more work.) Absent of some unnecessarily elaborate mechanism, one glider arrival cannot carry enough information by itself for universal construction.
 Gustavo claimed that the Gemini breeder required extra gliders because it was so big. This is contrary to the principle of how universal construction works. If nothing else, use a universal constructor with one glider to synthesize a universal constructor with fifteen gliders.
 The other aspects of the thread, such as: the fact that it was apparently possible for Gustavo to receive Morse code signals from Massachusetts obviously not intended for him in southern Brazil; the claim of a secret leak being reminiscent of many false conspiracy theories; claiming that an elementary spaceship and a constructed spaceship could share a tagalong; various other outlandish details; implying that 385+15=390+1; and Gustavo's spammy nature in general, suggest that he had virtually no idea what he was talking about.
 The idea of the information being stored in the distance to the final glider was originally proposed by calcyman (Adam Goucher), probably in collaboration with people at MIT, not Gustavo.
 If the thread was even true, then the reverse cabertosser would have been invented by Ivan Fomichev (codeholic), not Gustavo.
If anyone invented the RCTbased universal constructor in that thread, it was calcyman (as per point #4), although I would argue that that should not count as the actual invention (as per point #1).

ColorfulGalaxy
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by ColorfulGalaxy » October 19th, 2020, 1:06 am
mniemiec wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 8:15 pm
1. No (it's a troll), 2. Yes, 3. Yes
Trump {Bot} wrote: ↑October 18th, 2020, 7:57 pm
Is there a pentadecathlon predecessor that evolves into another pentadecathlon predecessor?
Are there any Unit Non Totalistic Cellular Automaton Cells in Life?
Are Unit Wireworld Cells Possible?
1. Yes. Every ngeneration pentadecathlon predecessor (n>0) evolves into an n1generation pentadecathlon predecessor.
2. Yes. Since Life is universal, all CAs that can be emulated by any computer can be emulated in Life. I don't know if anyone has actually constructed ones for nontotalistic CAs yet, but it's definitely possible.
3. Yes. See 2.
Thank you for answering.
For Donald Trump's question, here's an example:
Code: Select all
x = 12, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4bo2bo$2bo6bo$o3bo2bo3bo$2bo6bo$4bo2bo!

wwei23
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 Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
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Post
by wwei23 » October 19th, 2020, 9:17 pm
ColorfulGalaxy wrote: ↑October 19th, 2020, 5:09 pm
Could this be made into a pentadecathlon hassler?
With the appropriate guns, I don't see why not. The only problem is that there aren't trueperiod guns at P21, so you'll have to use a pseudoperiod gun.
@Hunting so we're making a referential signature chain?

Schiaparelliorbust
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Post
by Schiaparelliorbust » October 21st, 2020, 3:40 pm
This might sound like a weird question but, on average, what percentage of gliders in CGoL are the first and second natural gliders of the Herschel?

GUYTU6J
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by GUYTU6J » October 24th, 2020, 5:20 am
Bringing this problem up once more ...
Ian07 wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 4:21 pm
Moosey wrote:testitemqlstudop wrote:What do the three numbers after yl in an apgcode mean? (ylxxx_xxx_xxx_SEEMINGLYRANDOMCHARACTERS)
I think the first is "period"
I know another represents period of debris. Not sure which one.
But yes, the first is definitely period.
Perhaps one number encodes whether it’s SS linear growth (like blockstacker), SM (a gun), MS (a puffer), or MM (a rake)? I’m not sure.
If I remember correctly, this is what each number means:
First: the period of the
population growth of the pattern. Note that this is not always the same as the pattern's "true" period (see below).
Second: The overall period of the debris.
Third: The amount the population grows by each period (again, this is based on the period of the population plot, not the period of the actual pattern).
Fourth: Some sort of hashing function, I think.
The explanation made me puzzled upon checking my search results in Glimmering Garden ikpx2_stdin census (yes, LaundryPizza03, that unknown user happens to be myself). Consisting of a p240 cloverleaf and a c/4d tubstretcher, this pattern is classified as yl60_1_30:
Code: Select all
x = 32, y = 38, rule = B3jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23a4city6c7c
14b2o$b2o11bo2bo$2ob3o8bo4bo$bo2b2o6b2o$b4o6b2o2b4obo$7b2o2bo5bo2bo$4b
o2bo2bo2bob2o3b2o$4b3o2bo6bo3bobo$4b2o2b2o6bo2b2o$11b6o2bo$12bo7bobo$
13bo7b2o$13b2o6b3o$13bob2o3bo3bo$14b3o3bo4b2o$14b4o2b4ob2o$15b2o8bo$
19bo4bobo$19b3obobob2o$18bo8b2o$17b2o3bob2o$17bob2o2b2o$16b2obo4b2obo$
27bo$20bo6bo$19bobo8bo$20bobo5b2obo$21bo5b2o2bo$24bobo2b2o$22b3obo3bo$
24bo2bo$21bo2bobobo$21b3obob2o$21bo3bobo$21bobo2bo$23b2o$24bo$22b2o!
Whereas this is a yl240_1_120:
Code: Select all
x = 33, y = 34, rule = B3jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23a4city6c7c
14b2o$b2o11bo2bo$2ob3o8bo4bo$bo2b2o6b2o$b4o6b2o2b4obo$7b2o2bo5bo2bo$4b
o2bo2bo2bob2o3b2o$4b3o2bo6bo3bobo$4b2o2b2o6bo2b2o$11b6o2bo$12bo7bobo$
13bo7b2o$13b2o6b3o$13bob2o3bo3bo$14b3o3bo4b2o$14b4o2b4ob2o$15b2o8bo$
19bo4bobo$19b3obobob2o$18bo8b2o$17b2o3bob2o$17bob2o2b2o$16b2obo4b2obo$
27bo2b3o$20bo6bo2bo$19bobo9bo$20bobo6bobo$21bobo2b3obo$21b4obob2o$24bo
2bo$26bo$25b2o$24b2o$23b2o!
Lifequote:
Chuangtse wrote:
What we love is the mystery of Life. What we hate is corruption in death. But the corruptible in its turn becomes mysterious life, and this mysterious life once more becomes corruptible.

mniemiec
 Posts: 1205
 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am
Post
by mniemiec » October 24th, 2020, 7:08 am
GUYTU6J wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 5:20 am
The explanation made me puzzled upon checking my search results in Glimmering Garden ikpx2_stdin census (yes, LaundryPizza03, that unknown user happens to be myself). Consisting of a p240 cloverleaf and a c/4d tubstretcher, this pattern is classified as yl60_1_30: ... Whereas this is a yl240_1_120: ...
When classifying growing patterns, apgsearch categorizes things by their populations only, and not their cell configurations. In your first example, in additional to the wickstretcher, there is a P240 (mod 60) oscillator, whose population cycles every 60 generations. In the second example, the oscillator briefly perturbs the end of the wick causing a slight change in its population, once every 240 generations. I'm not sure why the third number is half of the first in these cases. The text string at the end is a compressed histogram of the populations at each step of one cycle.

GUYTU6J
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by GUYTU6J » October 24th, 2020, 8:57 am
mniemiec wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 7:08 am
When classifying growing patterns, apgsearch categorizes things by their populations only, and not their cell configurations. In your first example, in additional to the wickstretcher, there is a P240 (mod 60) oscillator, whose population cycles every 60 generations. In the second example, the oscillator briefly perturbs the end of the wick causing a slight change in its population, once every 240 generations. I'm not sure why the third number is half of the first in these cases. The text string at the end is a compressed histogram of the populations at each step of one cycle.
The tubstretcher addes 2 cells to the vessel every 4 generations, and 2/4 = 0.5, which may account for the halved number.
Do you mean that in the case of yl60 apgsearch recognized the wickstretcher and the oscillator as a whole? I feel like blaming the object separation then, since the mechanism does not misidentify a blocklaying switch engine with a pentadecathlon (say) in the ash behind.
Lifequote:
Chuangtse wrote:
What we love is the mystery of Life. What we hate is corruption in death. But the corruptible in its turn becomes mysterious life, and this mysterious life once more becomes corruptible.

mniemiec
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 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am
Post
by mniemiec » October 24th, 2020, 11:16 am
GUYTU6J wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 8:57 am
Do you mean that in the case of yl60 apgsearch recognized the wickstretcher and the oscillator as a whole? I feel like blaming the object separation then, since the mechanism does not misidentify a blocklaying switch engine with a pentadecathlon (say) in the ash behind.
I'm not sure. Object separation tends to get a bit wonky whenever two objects are close enough that their areas of infuence overlap, even if the objects don't do so. This is especially obvious in cases where there are two spaceships (especially of higher periods) are several spaces apart and it's obvious that they can never interact, yet they are still treated as a single "object".
In the case of the blocklaying switchengine and the pentadecathlon, it may depend on how far away the pentadecathlon is from everything else.

MathAndCode
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Post
by MathAndCode » October 24th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Has anyone conjectured that it is possible to make any finite pattern in ConwayLife by starting with some arrangement of four cells then doing nothing else besides removing cells in successive generations? That conjecture seems likely to be true to me.

Schiaparelliorbust
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by Schiaparelliorbust » October 24th, 2020, 3:29 pm
MathAndCode wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Has anyone conjectured that it is possible to make any finite pattern in ConwayLife by starting with some arrangement of four cells then doing nothing else besides removing cells in successive generations? That conjecture seems likely to be true to me.
Could you give an example? Do you start with a pattern that doesn't die in one generation and you (the player) just kill cells each generation?

MathAndCode
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Post
by MathAndCode » October 24th, 2020, 3:46 pm
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 3:29 pm
MathAndCode wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Has anyone conjectured that it is possible to make any finite pattern in ConwayLife by starting with some arrangement of four cells then doing nothing else besides removing cells in successive generations? That conjecture seems likely to be true to me.
Could you give an example? Do you start with a pattern that doesn't die in one generation and you (the player) just kill cells each generation?
Here is a way to make each of the three sevencell acorns.
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2o$bo!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
#C [[ PASTEMODE COPY ]]
#C [[ PASTET 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 9 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 10 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 11 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 12 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 13 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 14 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 5 ]]
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2o$bo!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
#C [[ PASTEMODE COPY ]]
#C [[ PASTET 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 9 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 10 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 11 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 12 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 13 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 14 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 5 ]]
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2o$bo!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
#C [[ PASTEMODE COPY ]]
#C [[ PASTET 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 9 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 10 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 11 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 12 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 13 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 14 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 5 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
There is not a particular reason that I started with the prepond. The prepond, the four fourcell P spark parents, the three fourcell traffic light predecessors, and the five fourcell beehive predecessors are all interconvertible.
Last edited by
MathAndCode on October 24th, 2020, 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Schiaparelliorbust
 Posts: 1109
 Joined: July 22nd, 2020, 9:50 am
 Location: Acidalia Planitia
Post
by Schiaparelliorbust » October 24th, 2020, 4:05 pm
MathAndCode wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 3:46 pm
Here is a way to make each of the three sevencell acorns.
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2o$bo!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
#C [[ PASTEMODE COPY ]]
#C [[ PASTET 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 9 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 10 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 11 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 12 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 13 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 14 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 5 ]]
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2o$bo!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
#C [[ PASTEMODE COPY ]]
#C [[ PASTET 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 9 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 10 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 11 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 12 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 13 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 14 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 5 ]]
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
2bo$2o$bo!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
#C [[ PASTEMODE COPY ]]
#C [[ PASTET 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 9 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 10 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 11 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 12 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 13 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTET 14 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 3 0 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 1 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 2 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 0 4 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 5 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 1 3 ]]
#C [[ PASTE emptydot 2 4 ]]
There is not a particular reason that I started with the prepond. The prepond, the four fourcell P spark parents, the three fourcell traffic light predecessors, and the four fourcell beehive predecessors are all interconvertible.
That's a strange conjecture. I mean it seems to me that you can manipulate patterns in any way that could lead to any other pattern. Is there a maximum 1 cell killed/per generation rule? What if you
had to kill cells until you reached your target pattern? Also, how long have you been working on this?

mniemiec
 Posts: 1205
 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am
Post
by mniemiec » October 24th, 2020, 4:11 pm
MathAndCode wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Has anyone conjectured that it is possible to make any finite pattern in ConwayLife by starting with some arrangement of four cells then doing nothing else besides removing cells in successive generations? That conjecture seems likely to be true to me.
Of course, the simplest (and least interesting) answer to this conjecture is "absolutely not", since GoE patterns are finite, and can't evolve from any arrangement of bits, 4 bits or not, so let's modify this to "every finite repeating pattern" instead.
T tetromino evolves into 3x3 hollow block, and taking one or two bits away from that gives the Pi and R evolutions, so it should be possible to get quite a variety of outcomes by manipulating those. To get to "any finite pattern" would need some fancy handwaving like the RCT universal constructor, and even then, you only have constructions of everything that is gliderconstructible. To get from there to "every finite stilllife", or worse, "every finite repeating pattern" would require much more handwaving.

MathAndCode
 Posts: 1299
 Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm
Post
by MathAndCode » October 24th, 2020, 4:20 pm
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Is there a maximum 1 cell killed/per generation rule?
No.
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 4:05 pm
What if you
had to kill cells until you reached your target pattern?
I don't think that it would work, at least not starting with only four cells.
Schiaparelliorbust wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Also, how long have you been working on this?
I only thought of it earlier today.
mniemiec wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 4:11 pm
Of course, the simplest (and least interesting) answer to this conjecture is "absolutely not", since GoE patterns are finite, and can't evolve from any arrangement of bits, 4 bits or not, so let's modify this to "every finite repeating pattern" instead.
Yes, but one can make a denser region of cells then simply remove cells to get a Garden of Eden.
mniemiec wrote: ↑October 24th, 2020, 4:11 pm
T tetromino evolves into 3x3 hollow block, and taking one or two bits away from that gives the Pi and R evolutions, so it should be possible to get quite a variety of outcomes by manipulating those. To get to "any finite pattern" would need some fancy handwaving like the RCT universal constructor, and even then, you only have constructions of everything that is gliderconstructible.
Why not just figure out a way to create arbitrarily large regions of all on cells?
Edit: Here is a way to create
Garden of Eden 11.
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 2, rule = B3/S23
bo$3o!
#C [[ RLE emptydot b! ]]
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wwei23
 Posts: 1842
 Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
 Location: The (Life?) Universe
Post
by wwei23 » October 24th, 2020, 11:28 pm
What is the simplest possible helix? I want to make a gun for it.
@Hunting so we're making a referential signature chain?