Thread for basic questions

[Haycat2009]

Why are male pronouns used for patterns (Grandfather problem, unique father problem) despite the fact that female pronouns are normally used for biological cells (Budding yeast forms daughter cell, etc)?

(I am a biology teacher, and also I noticed the recent discussion over pronouns.)

[C28]

Why are male pronouns used for patterns (Grandfather problem, unique father problem) despite the fact that female pronouns are normally used for biological cells (Budding yeast forms daughter cell, etc)?

tradition or something idk

[dvgrn]

tradition or something idk

Pretty much exactly that. Those were John Conway's terms, from around 1970 -- it somehow didn't seem quite as weird a choice back then.

But 1970 was somewhere around the time when people were only just starting to think that maybe using "he" as a "gender-neutral" indefinite pronoun to refer to all people ... didn't really make as much sense as the last few hundred years' worth of grammar-school teachers had been saying that it did.

[C28]

what makes the recently-discovered L141 so interesting?

I honestly do not know

[dvgrn]

what makes the recently-discovered L141 so interesting?

Details can be found here.

Long story short, there's a provably universal but very limited toolkit of Spartan Herschel conduits that can be used to build self-constructing patterns -- i.e. circuitry that slsparse can automatically compile into construction recipes.

Useful new additions to this slsparse-compatible toolkit only come along very rarely. The new L141 is simple and cheap to build, and produces extra output gliders in all directions, including one at its outside corner equivalent to the very useful L156 conduit's corner output -- but then it produces its Herschel output in an odd number of ticks, and the Herschel is on a different square color.

We haven't had an elementary conduit that did that until now. For an arbitrary large self-constructing construction -- the RCT's optimized ECC, let's say, or the supporting mechanisms for the unidimensional spaceship, or a new self-constructing computer with a 2D stable memory storage mechanism -- I suspect that having L141 in the toolkit will cut a noticeable number of percentage points off of the total construction cost.

[C28]

what makes the recently-discovered L141 so interesting?

Details can be found here.

Long story short, there's a provably universal but very limited toolkit of Spartan Herschel conduits that can be used to build self-constructing patterns -- i.e. circuitry that slsparse can automatically compile into construction recipes.

Useful new additions to this slsparse-compatible toolkit only come along very rarely. The new L141 is simple and cheap to build, and produces extra output gliders in all directions, including one at its outside corner equivalent to the very useful L156 conduit's corner output -- but then it produces its Herschel output in an odd number of ticks, and the Herschel is on a different square color.

We haven't had an elementary conduit that did that until now. For an arbitrary large self-constructing construction -- the RCT's optimized ECC, let's say, or the supporting mechanisms for the unidimensional spaceship, or a new self-constructing computer with a 2D stable memory storage mechanism -- I suspect that having L141 in the toolkit will cut a noticeable number of percentage points off of the total construction cost.

oh so the L141 is interesting because it can do multiple things that previously could only be done individually by other conduits, got it.

is there anything stopping me from naming the L141 conduit "Lucy"?

[dvgrn]

is there anything stopping me from naming the L141 conduit "Lucy"?

I can't think of anything offhand. L141 would be the only H-to-H conduit that has gotten a non-systematic name, though.

Speaking for myself... I'm probably not going to want to expend much effort trying to remember that L141 = Lucy. If other people talking about the new conduit end up saying "L141" half the time and "Lucy" the other half of the time, I'll probably find it slightly irritating, but bearable I suppose. If conduits in general really needed two separate equally short names, then every Tom, Dick, and Harry would already have named their conduits "Larry", "Moe", and "Curly". Discussions would get quite confusing, I would think.

... When someone says "L141" and references a large pattern, if you're not sure if you're looking in the right spot you can put in a Herschel and run the conduit for 141 ticks and confirm that the identification matches. When someone says "Lucy" and you're not sure what it means, the pattern won't help -- the only option is to go look it up.

[hkoenig]

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

This also applies to naming. There seems to be a lot of "naming" going on which is little more that people trying to assert some sort of ownership of the configurations in question.

About a quarter century ago, out here i the real world, I submitted a list of long established names to the US Board of Geographic Names, mostly because they were geographic features important to me, and I wanted to make sure the names, in common usage, would be permanent. But also because it was a chance for me to make a small mark on the area. (Two got rejected early in the process because there existed other, competing names and people had their preferences. I didn't fight it because I figured 15 out 17 was a successful enough result. Turns out the two rejected naming attempts are still in use, even unofficially, because they were less cumbersome to use.)

Why does this particular Life configuration need this particular name, when as D.Greene points out, it has a perfectly useful designation? One that follows the precedents used for all other configurations of this type? What exactly is the advantage of "Lucy" over L141, and why is it singled out for a name?

If you are really interested in naming these configurations, then the best way is not to impose them, but is to use them. Write up reports where you define and use the names you want, to get others used to the idea that a certain name is associated with a certain configuration. Don't go around saying (demanding?) that people start referring to a configuration by a particular, arbitrary name.

(Next are people are going to start inventing pronouns that apply only to certain Life patterns and objects? )

[Haycat2009]

In Lucy+Fx153, is the FNB a bait (in the old, stricter sense of the term) block?

[confocaloid]

In Lucy+Fx153, is the FNB a bait (in the old, stricter sense of the term) block?

Details? The question is unnecessarily awkward and hard to understand. What "the FNB" refers to in this case? What you mean by "Lucy"? Why there is a doubt about whatever is asked here? What is the idea of the question (i.e. why would someone be curious about it)?

[C28]

In Lucy+Fx153, is the FNB a bait (in the old, stricter sense of the term) block?

I don't think it would. the combo might be a block keeper if the SNG from Lucy/L141 can escape.

edit: yep

Code: Select all

x = 74, y = 64, rule = LifeHistory
9.2A44.2A$9.2A44.2A2$2A.A42.2A.A$A.2A42.A.2A3$20.2A44.2A$20.A45.A$18.
A.A43.A.A$18.2A44.2A3$4.2A44.2A$3.A.A43.A.A$3.A45.A$.3A43.3A$A45.A$.3A
43.3A$4.A45.A$3.A.A43.A.A$4.A4.2C39.A4.2D$9.2C44.2D2$5.2A44.2A$5.2A44.
2A6$24.2A44.2A$2.A21.A.A21.A21.A.A$2.3A21.A21.3A21.A$5.A20.2A23.A20.2A
$4.2A44.2A2$26.2A44.2A$25.A.A43.A.A$26.A45.A3$24.2A44.2A$24.2A44.2A2$
3.A45.A$3.A.A43.A.A$3.3A43.3A$5.A45.A5$7.A45.A$6.A.A43.A.A$7.A45.A5$10.
2A44.2A$11.A45.A$8.3A43.3A$8.A45.A!

[Sokwe]

is there anything stopping me from naming the L141 conduit "Lucy"?

In Lucy+Fx153...

Lucy/L141

I'll be a bit more explicit than previous posters. Please do not attempt to name new conduits. We have a tolerably effective systematic naming scheme for them. Even the most fundamental conduits (excluding glider reflectors) don't have names. It would be confusing and moderately annoying to have exceptions.

Next are people are going to start inventing pronouns that apply only to certain Life patterns and objects?

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I don't think there would be much opportunity to, nor any perceived purpose in creating novel articles, conjunctions, prepositions, or pronouns for Life. Excessive naming, if it's truly an issue, would almost certainly stop at nouns and maybe verbs and adjectives. Let's avoid distant hypotheticals, please.

[miha1]

how do i post a pattern here?

[hotdogPi]

Using either Golly or LifeViewer (LifeViewer is the in-browser simulator on this website), select all (or a region) and click copy (or control-C). On the forum post, click the "pattern" or </> tag (they're identical), and then paste it in. It should look like this:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
o$2obo$2b2o!

[miha1]

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory:K40*,20
3$4.4A$3.A3.A$7.A$6.A2$6.A$7.A$2.A4.A$3.5A4$2.6A$.A5.A$7.A$6.A!

what is this? it seems interesting to me because its spark gets flipped.

[b-engine]

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory:K40*,20
3$4.4A$3.A3.A$7.A$6.A2$6.A$7.A$2.A4.A$3.5A4$2.6A$.A5.A$7.A$6.A!

What is this? It seems interesting to me because its spark gets flipped.

Welcome to the forums!

I'm feeling sorry, but this is just an uninteresting standard spaceship flotilla. Any flotilla can been made using any xWSSes. If you get a trust flag on LifeWiki (see LifeWiki:Editor_pages. You will need to create a separate wiki account with either same or different username), please don't try to add this into LifeWiki, as LW:NB stated. Doing so in the mainspace and the page will get deleted by others.

EDIT: You don't need that pattern in a Klein bottle. Remove :K40*,20 does the same and faster. That spark flipping is actually an illusion. Nothing can travel faster than 1 cell per generation (a.k.a speed of light) in CAs using R1 Moore neighborhood.

[Haycat2009]

Are Elkie’s p5 and Drifty Eater 3 related? I notice the similarity.

[Sokwe]

Are Elkie’s p5 and Drifty Eater 3 related? I notice the similarity.

What similarity? Can you be more specific? I can see how they have a little bit of stator in common, but as far as I can tell the similarity ends there.

[Vort]

Hello.
I read at wiki page Engineered diehard about patterns which have extremely large lifespan.
It looks like they use empty space outside of initial pattern for storing some sort of counter.
I wonder, is it possible to achieve similar results without using such extra space, by placing initial pattern inside of torus?
Did anyone tried it?

[hotdogPi]

With a 100×100 torus, there are 10000 cells and therefore only 2^10000 possible states. The lifespan of any pattern before settling cannot be more than that.