Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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bubblegum
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by bubblegum » January 22nd, 2021, 1:38 pm

mniemiec wrote:
January 22nd, 2021, 12:36 pm
Are you referring to the use of the "x" state? In my synthesis database, I have always "o" for "before" cells and "x" for "after" cells, and sometimes "y" for "junk" cells (for Life programs that choose to differentiate between them). Most programs (e.g. Golly using the QuickLife engine) will just treat them the same under normal Life rules, so you will see a monochromatic pattern.
This is a post from 2016.
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July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » January 22nd, 2021, 1:57 pm

bubblegum wrote:
January 22nd, 2021, 1:38 pm
This is a post from 2016.
It's on the bottom of the first page, so maybe he saw that there were new posts there but accidentally clicked to go to this thread in general instead of to go to the latest posts, scrolled down in order to go to the latest posts because he realized that he was at the top of the page, and didn't notice the page number.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by mniemiec » January 22nd, 2021, 2:05 pm

bubblegum wrote:
January 22nd, 2021, 1:38 pm
This is a post from 2016.
MathAndCode wrote:
January 22nd, 2021, 1:57 pm
It's on the bottom of the first page, so maybe he saw that there were new posts there but accidentally clicked to go to this thread in general instead of to go to the latest posts, scrolled down in order to go to the latest posts because he realized that he was at the top of the page, and didn't notice the page number.
Ah, yes! That was it! That does happen sometimes, but I usually notice before I start taking a post seriously. This is what happens when I get up and quickly check posts before having to rush out the door.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by XxAlphaHexagonxX » January 22nd, 2021, 4:59 pm

An interesting reaction?

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 10, rule = LifeSuper
7.2W$6.W2.W$6.W2.W$7.3W3$.2W$W2.W$W2.W$.3W!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by bubblegum » January 22nd, 2021, 5:36 pm

XxAlphaHexagonxX wrote:
January 22nd, 2021, 4:59 pm
An interesting reaction?

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 10, rule = LifeSuper
7.2W$6.W2.W$6.W2.W$7.3W3$.2W$W2.W$W2.W$.3W!
What's the question here?
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by wwei23 » January 22nd, 2021, 8:31 pm

dvgrn wrote:
January 22nd, 2021, 10:43 am
True... except I still would be very careful not to call those "methuselahs", because at this pattern size, there are still probably more of them than there are electrons in the visible universe.
I was thinking of things like 40514M, which apparently is interesting enough to get its own LifeWiki page.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » January 22nd, 2021, 8:48 pm

It is not interesting enough to merit its own LifeWiki page (we now have 16*16 soups that last thousands of generations longer), but I think it's left up for historical reasons (sort of like Flying Wing).

@XxAlphaHexagonxX: What part of that reaction strikes you as interesting? The only thing I can see that might make it seem that way is the strange spark it makes, which is still not interesting. Generally, reactions that are considered interesting last A Long Time, make a Rare Still-Life/Oscillator (or anything rarer than an LWSS), or edgeshoot something a long distance.
(These are only guidelines)
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And if you close your eyes—does it almost feel like you've been here before..."

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by XxAlphaHexagonxX » January 23rd, 2021, 7:35 am

This isn’t really very interesting or notable in any way, I just thought it might be useful because it lasted a few generations. Sorry if I wasted any time here.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by C28 » January 24th, 2021, 12:37 pm

what is the greatest heat a methuselah can have?
25P3H1V0.2 is my favorite c/3

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Hunting » January 27th, 2021, 9:11 am

I know I've asked this question countless times to countless people, but I can't seem to understand how to synthesis small, unnatural spaceships.

I recently tried the 19-cell c/4d in LeapLife. One of its phase contains a long boat, so I sparked the long boat to get the center of the spaceship:

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 8, rule = B2n3/S23-q
8bo$8b2o$7bobo2$5b3o10b3o12b2ob2o$2bobob3o8bob3o10bobo$bobob2o9bob2o
11bobo3b2o$o3bo12bo14bo2bo!
And that's the farthest I've got to. That's 11 cells out of 19 cells; But I can't figure out where should the rest, especially the glider, come from, and that's not mentioning I can't insert those sparks used to activate the 11 cells. How do I do it?
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goldenratio
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by goldenratio » January 27th, 2021, 11:18 am

Hunting wrote:
January 27th, 2021, 9:11 am
I know I've asked this question countless times to countless people, but I can't seem to understand how to synthesis small, unnatural spaceships.
I recently tried the 19-cell c/4d in LeapLife. One of its phase contains a long boat, so I sparked the long boat to get the center of the spaceship:

Code: Select all

snip
And that's the farthest I've got to. That's 11 cells out of 19 cells; But I can't figure out where should the rest, especially the glider, come from, and that's not mentioning I can't insert those sparks used to activate the 11 cells. How do I do it?
Goldtiger997 wrote how they do spaceship syntheses here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1557&start=475#p105292 (I used the same method for the ERS 1 synthesis)
Of course that's in Life, but the LLS part should work just fine as LLS supports INT.
As for spark_search, it appears it isn't actually coded for Life anywhere, so all you have to do to make it work in another rule (which supports gliders) is change this line

Code: Select all

g.setrule("Life")
to whatever rule you want.

EDIT: Preliminary predecessor:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 11, rule = B2n3/S23-q
9b2o$bobo7bo$2obo7bo$2bo5b2obo$7bobobo$bo4bo2bob2o$obo2bob2o4bo$2bo2b
o7bo$2b2ob4o2b2o$3bo4b4o$3bob2o2b2o2bo!
Not particularly decent, but at least shows the LLS method isn't too far-fetched.
Don't know, I don't really want to be called by my current username anymore.
Anyways the old gun:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 7, rule = B2n3-cq4e5y6c7c/S23-k
2o$2o3$3bo$3b2o$3bo!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by creeperman7002 » January 28th, 2021, 3:05 pm

Are there any strictly-volatile p4s in B2/S34H? I have seen plenty of volatility 1 p4s but none were strict volatility 1.
B2n3-jn/S1c23-y is an interesting rule. It has a replicator, a fake glider, an OMOS and SMOS, a wide variety of oscillators, and some signals. Also this rule is omniperiodic.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4856

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » January 29th, 2021, 8:44 pm

Is there a way to merge two barberpoles already in a tie with gliders. (I'm wondering whether this can allow a more efficient nonapole synthesis.)



Edit: It turns out that I miscounted; a way to merge barberpoles would be more likely to yield a cheaper undecapole synthesis.
Last edited by MathAndCode on January 31st, 2021, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by mniemiec » January 30th, 2021, 2:51 am

MathAndCode wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:44 pm
Is there a way to merge two barberpoles already in a tie with gliders. (I'm wondering whether this can allow a more efficient nonapole synthesis.)
Not at present. I remember having a conversation with Dave Buckingham in the '90s about barber pole extenders. He had a few, and I found that one of his snake-extenders worked too (and that's the one I usually use to extend snakes and barber poles). He remarked that growing a barber pole was easy, but I would have a much harder time finding a way to shrink one - something that nobody figured out how to do until just a few years ago. I suspect that welding two tied barber poles into one long one will be correspondingly more difficult.

EDIT: From the "close, but no cigar" department, comes this - which does everything except one bit; unfortunately, there's no way to save that bit, so a totally different mechanism will be needed:

Code: Select all

x = 95, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
5boo38boo38boo$5bobo16bob3obbo13bobo17b3o3bo13bobo$21bobbo3bo3bo35bo3b
o$7bobo10b3obob3ob4o13bobo17bobb4o13bobo$8boo11bobbobo5bo34bo4bo$10boo
12bob3obbo13bo5bo19bo17bobo$bbo7bo56bo$obo8bobo29bo7bobo37bobo$boobboo
7bo28bo10bo39bo$4bobo6boo28bo5bo3boo38boo$6bo$45b3o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » January 30th, 2021, 12:13 pm

mniemiec wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 2:51 am
EDIT: From the "close, but no cigar" department, comes this - which does everything except one bit; unfortunately, there's no way to save that bit, so a totally different mechanism will be needed:

Code: Select all

x = 95, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
5boo38boo38boo$5bobo16bob3obbo13bobo17b3o3bo13bobo$21bobbo3bo3bo35bo3b
o$7bobo10b3obob3ob4o13bobo17bobb4o13bobo$8boo11bobbobo5bo34bo4bo$10boo
12bob3obbo13bo5bo19bo17bobo$bbo7bo56bo$obo8bobo29bo7bobo37bobo$boobboo
7bo28bo10bo39bo$4bobo6boo28bo5bo3boo38boo$6bo$45b3o!
If the traffic light predecessor can be modified so that generation eleven looks like this, then the bit can be added from the other side.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2o$o$bobo$4bo$3b2o$b3ob2o$4b2obo$4bo$4bo2bobo$8b2o!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Schiaparelliorbust » January 30th, 2021, 12:17 pm

What is the lowest population known queen bee predecessor? I need one.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by GUYTU6J » January 30th, 2021, 12:26 pm

Schiaparelliorbust wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 12:17 pm
What is the lowest population known queen bee predecessor? I need one.
On page 6 of Lifeline Volume 4, a 7-bit and some 8-bit predecessors are mentioned. A corollary is that a gosper glider gun predecessor can have as few as 21-bits. Also, there is this post:
pcallahan wrote:
December 14th, 2019, 1:31 pm
This qualifies as useless, since we already have plenty of syntheses for Gosper's p30 glider gun but I've been obsessed with the puzzle for a couple of days of finding a minimal predecessor in terms of bounding box and cell count. Maybe somebody else can improve this.

I see this as a partial order on (max dimension, min dimension, cell count), so all of these are incomparable. Ideally, though I'd like something fitting in a 36x3 bounding box or smaller with 25 or fewer cells.

First attempt and the only one to shrink the width below 36. I imagine the cell count of 31 can be reduced, but the bounding box is too big to be interesting.

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o$o2b2o$bobob2o20b2obo$bo25bo2b2o$2obobo21b2ob2o$3bo23bobo$28b4o!
Next 21 cells with a 36x5 bounding box.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
26bo$8bobo16b2ob2o2bo$9bo17bobo4b2o$2o4b2o$bo6b3o!
Next I can shave off the top row on the right but I need to add a cell. So 22 cells with a 36x4 bounding box.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
8bobo15b3o2bo2b2o$2o7bo15bobob2o4bo$bo4b2o$8b3o!
Finally, I can shave it further, but I need to add more cells. So 26 cells with a 36x3 bounding box. (This is also a little more interesting in that the left block stabilizer appears spontaneously.)

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
o2bo2bobo$b4ob7o12bobobo4b2o$26b3ob2o3bo!
One observation is that starting patterns for the queen bee that lie entirely on one side of the center row (including the row) make it possible to avoid extending the bounding box beyond that determined by block placement.
Lifequote:
In the drama The Peony Pavilion, Tang Xianzu wrote: 原来姹紫嫣红开遍,似这般都付与断井颓垣。
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Midst broken fountains, mouldering walls.)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by ColorfulGalaxy » January 31st, 2021, 1:33 am

Any fenceposts for this?
Also, are there any stretchers for this?

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
obo2$bobo2$2bobo2$3bobo2$4bobo2$5bobo!

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 9, rule = LifeColorful
6E.2B$6E.2B$7.2B$2D5.2B$2D5.2B$2D5.2B$2D$2D.6C$2D.6C!
List of helpful topics

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by mniemiec » January 31st, 2021, 6:22 am

MathAndCode wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 12:13 pm
If the traffic light predecessor can be modified so that generation eleven looks like this, then the bit can be added from the other side. ...
Interesting idea; unfortunately, I think you'll find that it difficult to find a predecessor for this. Every way I could find to do this also adds additional cells to the attached blinkers; if you suppress those, you get one extra cell next to both blinkers. But it's possible that a more inventive indirect approach might work. Lifenthusiasts have often been known to take a problem that has previously been declared impossible and saying "hold my beer".

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hkoenig » January 31st, 2021, 11:48 am

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
2$10bo$10bobo$10bobobo2$12bobobo$17bo$11bobo2b2o2$10bobo2$9bobo2$8bobo
2$7bobo2$2b3obobo2$b2o2b2o2$bo2bo$3bo$3bo!
As for stretchers, consider that the slope is not exactly diagonal, and what sort of spaceship would be needed to do the stretching.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » January 31st, 2021, 4:21 pm

mniemiec wrote:
January 31st, 2021, 6:22 am
Interesting idea; unfortunately, I think you'll find that it difficult to find a predecessor for this. Every way I could find to do this also adds additional cells to the attached blinkers; if you suppress those, you get one extra cell next to both blinkers. But it's possible that a more inventive indirect approach might work. Lifenthusiasts have often been known to take a problem that has previously been declared impossible and saying "hold my beer".
I found a solution based on my idea that only requires the addition of what I think is a two-glider spark.

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo2$2bobo$5bo2bo$4b2o$2b3ob2o$5b2obo$5bo$5bo2bobo$11bo$10b2o!


Edit: Here's the relevant two-glider collision:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
o$obo$2o8$b3o$bo$2bo!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by mniemiec » January 31st, 2021, 6:31 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 31st, 2021, 4:21 pm
I found a solution based on my idea that only requires the addition of what I think is a two-glider spark. ... Edit: Here's the relevant two-glider collision: ...
That's not what I meant. That's the easy part. The hard part is to get the predecessor itself, without ending up with this (any attempt to make sure nothing is attached to the two blinkers will also cause an extra birth between them, which is toxic to the reaction):

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo2$2bobo$5bo$4b2o$2b3ob2o$4b3obo$5bo$5bo2bobo$11bo$10b2o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by MathAndCode » January 31st, 2021, 6:57 pm

mniemiec wrote:
January 31st, 2021, 6:31 pm

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo2$2bobo$5bo$4b2o$2b3ob2o$4b3obo$5bo$5bo2bobo$11bo$10b2o!
Could something like this be more promising?

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2o$o$bobo2$3bobo$4b2o$2b2o2b2o$6bo$5bobobo$5bo$9bobo$10b2o!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by JP21 » January 31st, 2021, 10:49 pm

ColorfulGalaxy wrote:
January 31st, 2021, 1:33 am
Any fenceposts for this?

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 40, rule = B3/S23
22b2o$3b3o12b2obobo$18bo$2b2o2bo12bo3bo2$2bo2bob2o11b2obobo$4bo19b2o$
4bo3b2o9b2o2$9b2o7b2o2$10b2o5b2o2$11b2o3b2o2$12b2ob2o2$12bobo2$11bobo
2$10bobo2$9bobo2$8bobo$2obo$ob2o3bobo$4b2o$b2o3b2o2bo$bo3b6o$2bobo6b2o
$obobo4bo3bo$2o3b5o3bo$7b2o2b2o$5b3ob2o$4bo5bo$4bobo2bo$5b2o2bobo$10b
2o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by ColorfulGalaxy » February 1st, 2021, 3:27 am

hkoenig wrote:
January 31st, 2021, 11:48 am

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
2$10bo$10bobo$10bobobo2$12bobobo$17bo$11bobo2b2o2$10bobo2$9bobo2$8bobo
2$7bobo2$2b3obobo2$b2o2b2o2$bo2bo$3bo$3bo!
As for stretchers, consider that the slope is not exactly diagonal, and what sort of spaceship would be needed to do the stretching.
Oh, thank you.

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 9, rule = LifeColorful
6E.2B$6E.2B$7.2B$2D5.2B$2D5.2B$2D5.2B$2D$2D.6C$2D.6C!
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