New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

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edwin
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New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

Post by edwin » August 9th, 2020, 5:08 am

Hi all,

I've been doing some research into diehard patterns. Is there a known list of diehards?

Could we start a new page or section in the Wiki to list notable diehards? I'm thinking a leaderboard/table style page, similar to https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/List_of ... ethuselahs

By notable I mean longest-lasting for any given bounding box. I've tried searching for such a page but I can't find one, so I'm assuming it doesn't exist.

Thoughts?

Edwin.

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yujh
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Re: New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

Post by yujh » August 9th, 2020, 5:31 am

edwin wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 5:08 am
Hi all,

I've been doing some research into diehard patterns. Is there a known list of diehards?

Could we start a new page or section in the Wiki to list notable diehards? I'm thinking a leaderboard/table style page, similar to https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/List_of ... ethuselahs

By notable I mean longest-lasting for any given bounding box. I've tried searching for such a page but I can't find one, so I'm assuming it doesn't exist.

Thoughts?

Edwin.
There’s a page for diehards.diehard

And a glider hits a block makes a diehard.
So the glider can be as far as you want.

I do think L/I is important for diehards.(also small bounding boxes)
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

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GUYTU6J
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Re: New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

Post by GUYTU6J » August 9th, 2020, 5:51 am

IMHO the diehards are generally not as noable as methuselahs, but if a table for the diehards with the longest lifespan in the given bounding boxes exists and is confirmed, it could be a section in the diehard article (instead of a standalone article).

Wait — what bounding boxes are you planning to list in the table? Those with small sizes may be boring and known, and larger ones can be trivial (e.g. a distant 2-glider annihilation). If you are talking about random soup style diehards, well, the search will be massively difficult and you may as well turn to doing a census for the ashes from those non-vanishing soups. Dying patterns are definitely not comparable to a novel object or a new glider synthesis recipe.

edwin
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Re: New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

Post by edwin » August 9th, 2020, 6:30 am

yujh wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 5:31 am
And a glider hits a block makes a diehard.
So the glider can be as far as you want.
I do think L/I is important for diehards.(also small bounding boxes)
Absolutely, which is why I think it would need to be listed by initial bounding box. It's the same with long-lived methuselahs. You can have a methuselah that lives arbitrarily long by constructing a glider and one of several other shapes arbitrarily far apart. So just like the long-lived methuselahs page, the diehard page (or section within the existing diehard page) should list them by initial bounding box size. And I agree, ones that are small are far more interesting.
GUYTU6J wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 5:51 am
Wait — what bounding boxes are you planning to list in the table? Those with small sizes may be boring and known
I was thinking of listing similar items to what's on the long-lived methuselahs page (most are methuselahs or similar, some are soups; all have small bounding boxes).

So what are the known diehards that have a small initial size and small bounding box? I mean, I know there's THE diehard, but what are the other known ones? For example, are there any other population=7 diehards that fit into a small bounding box, say 7 x 4, that live for longer than 130? What about population=8 diehards that fit into a similar bounding box? What's the longest lived diehard fitting those criteria that exist?

Is there an official register of these things? If not, why not start recording these here in the Wiki? How about we list all the known ones to start with, and let people try to break records (longer lasting diehard with either smaller initial population or smaller bounding box).

That's what I was thinking of.

(Maybe this already exists on another website?)

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dvgrn
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Re: New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

Post by dvgrn » August 9th, 2020, 8:02 am

edwin wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 6:30 am
Is there an official register of these things? If not, why not start recording these here in the Wiki? How about we list all the known ones to start with, and let people try to break records (longer lasting diehard with either smaller initial population or smaller bounding box).

That's what I was thinking of.

(Maybe this already exists on another website?)
Not that I know of. Diehards haven't seen the level of exhaustive enumeration work that's been done for small-bounding-box methuselahs.
'
There is the messless category that was added on Catagolue, relatively recently, so we have some statistics for 16x16 soups now.

I think you have the right general idea here. Any given diehard discovery in a small bounding box is probably not worth making a separate LifeWiki article for, but a leaderboard-type article similar to the List of long-lived methuselahs seems like it would be fine.

Hunting
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Re: New Wiki Section - List of Diehards

Post by Hunting » August 11th, 2020, 4:23 am

One thing I have to note is: Diehards are occasionally useful too, for example in the pure nonfiller project:

Code: Select all

x = 63, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory
32.3A$32.A2.A$25.3A4.A6.3A$24.A2.A4.A3.A.A2.A$24.A2.A4.A3.A.A2.A$23.
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20.3A3.A.A9.A8.A$18.A9.A10.A5.3A$18.3A28.A$16.A6.2A4.A17.3A$16.3A5.A.
2A.A21.A$14.A9.A3.2A7.2A10.3A$14.3A8.2A.2A7.2A14.A$12.A8.3A2.A.2A21.
3A$12.3A6.2A2.3A4.2A21.A$10.A19.2A.2A7.2A9.3A$10.3A11.A.A.4A.A8.2A13.
A$8.A16.2A6.A9.A3.A7.3A$8.3A6.2A7.A5.2A6.A4.3A11.A$6.A10.2A20.A2.A.A
12.3A$6.3A29.3A.3A.A13.A$3.A.A25.A10.A3.A10.A.3A$2.5A.A12.A6.A3.3A5.A
2.3A15.A$.2A6.A10.5A3.A11.A2.5A9.5A$2A4.2A12.A3.A3.A11.2A10.A.A$.A.A
3.A2.A10.2A4.A3.A3.A4.2A10.A2.A3.A.A$8.A.A10.2A11.A3.A3.A12.2A4.2A$.
5A9.5A2.A11.A3.5A10.A6.2A$.A15.3A2.A5.3A3.A6.A12.A.5A$.3A.A10.A3.A10.
A25.A.A$2.A13.A.3A.3A29.3A$3.3A12.A.A2.A20.2A10.A$3.A11.3A4.A6.2A5.A
7.2A6.3A$5.3A7.A3.A9.A6.2A16.A$5.A13.2A8.A.4A.A.A11.3A$7.3A9.2A7.2A.
2A19.A$7.A21.2A4.3A2.2A6.3A$9.3A21.2A.A2.3A8.A$9.A14.2A7.2A.2A8.3A$
11.3A10.2A7.2A3.A9.A$11.A21.A.2A.A5.3A$13.3A17.A4.2A6.A$13.A28.3A$15.
3A5.A10.A9.A$15.A8.A9.A.A3.3A$17.3A.A.2A10.A6.A$17.A16.2A2.3A$19.2A2.
2A2.A.A4.A5.A$19.A10.A2.A.A.3A$21.A2.A.A3.A4.A2.A$21.A2.A.A3.A4.A2.A$
21.3A6.A4.3A$27.A2.A$28.3A!
For reference, a pure non-filler is:
calcyman wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 10:17 am
a pattern where
  • Every cell in the universe is alive in at least one generation;
  • Every cell in the universe is eventually dead (or, equivalently, alive in only finitely many generations).
Which is obviously a perfect fit for diehards.

--

My OCA methuselah search tool toad_search (not yet officially released 'cause it's poorly written) supports detecting diehards while searching for methuselah. You can set a lower lifespan threshold for them.

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