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Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 25th, 2019, 9:41 am
by dvgrn
testitemqlstudop wrote:What the heck is going on on Discord with EVERY SINGLE PERSON OTHER THAN ME saying he shouldn't be added?
This doesn't seem accurate at all. The straw poll tally on Discord is currently about evenly split between "don't trust" and "trust but {various precautions}" -- with a small majority on the "trust" side. That's much better than the near-unanimous straw poll in favor of removing EV's trusted flag half a year ago.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 26th, 2019, 7:53 am
by Entity Valkyrie 2
Entity Valkyrie 3 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:
testitemqlstudop wrote:What the heck is going on on Discord with EVERY SINGLE PERSON OTHER THAN ME saying he shouldn't be added?
This doesn't seem accurate at all. The straw poll tally on Discord is currently about evenly split between "don't trust" and "trust but {various precautions}" -- with a small majority on the "trust" side. That's much better than the near-unanimous straw poll in favor of removing EV's trusted flag half a year ago.
What is the thing on Discord?

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 26th, 2019, 8:33 am
by dvgrn
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:What is the thing on Discord?
Please, please, just go back to posting messages with a single account like everyone else does. Fake quotes by "Entity Valkyrie 3" just make everything you post harder to read, for no good reason. If you used your original "Entity Valkyrie" account, everyone would be much happier.

The Discord discussion area is called the "ConwayLife Lounge". It's fairly easy to sign up and access it. Here's the invite link.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 27th, 2019, 7:31 pm
by Entity Valkyrie 2
Then I will stop using any accounts other than "Entity Valkyrie 2".

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 29th, 2019, 12:21 pm
by AGreason
Username:AGreason

I've ruled out p5 phoenixes viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1437&p=83405#p83405 and would like to edit the Phoenix article accordingly

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 29th, 2019, 12:36 pm
by Ian07
AGreason wrote:Username:AGreason

I've ruled out p5 phoenixes viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1437&p=83405#p83405 and would like to edit the Phoenix article accordingly
Done!

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 30th, 2019, 2:02 am
by Entity Valkyrie 2
I am never trustable, even if I promised you not to make silly edit wars. I can only promise to only make user pages for now on, until I made some discovery. Please move page User:Entity Valkyrie to User:Entity Valkyrie 2 if possible.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 30th, 2019, 1:19 pm
by dvgrn
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:I can only promise to only make user pages for now on, until I made some discovery.
This is clearly a good-faith effort to solve the problem, so thank you! Unfortunately that promise isn't very helpful, for several reasons.

1) The shared goal of the worldwide project of LifeWiki editing is to make it easier for people to find useful information about Conway's Life. People get added as LifeWiki editors in hopes that they will make good contributions to articles -- like the majority of your November 2018 - February 2019 edits.

If you're just going to edit your own user pages to document your own constructions, there doesn't seem to be much point in your being on the LifeWiki at all. Your own web pages or blog would be a much more appropriate place to put your own inventions.

2) You said, "... until I make some discovery." This is really worrisome! You still seem to have the idea that it's okay to document your own discoveries on the LifeWiki. Remember the Three-Step Checklist.

New details are welcome on the LifeWiki, but you have to be able to cite independent sources for them. If you're adding a pattern or a term to the LifeWiki, it should be possible to also add a link to where at least one person besides you is referring to the pattern or using the term. Otherwise you're just making things up... Sure, you might have invented a really good term, or a really impressive pattern. But it's still really important to get someone else to agree with you before you add anything to the LifeWiki.
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:Please move page User:Entity Valkyrie to User:Entity Valkyrie 2 if possible.
You'll be able to do that kind of thing yourself, once you can convince a LifeWiki moderator to switch on your "trusted" flag again.

Today you seem to be undermining your own credibility, though. It will be much harder for anyone to trust you now that you've posted "I am never trustable" in three different places, here and on Discord. That message is coming entirely from you, not from anyone else.

Time to Hit the Reset Button?
If you'll take my advice, you'll stop worrying about any of this. These forums are about cellular automata, not about you. With this new "Entity Valkyrie 2" account you've mostly just been making off-topic posts that do nothing but draw attention to yourself.

You used to make interesting discoveries and build ambitious new Conway's Life patterns -- which is more than most people manage to do, honestly. If you're still interested in doing those things, then please go right ahead!

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: September 30th, 2019, 1:26 pm
by dvgrn
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:I am never trustable, even if I promised you not to make silly edit wars.
I think I understand what you mean here, but it isn't coming across very well. Do you mean that you don't think you'll be able to distinguish "notable" edits on the LifeWiki from "non-notable" ones, even when you're doing your best to make only notable edits?

An occasional editing mistake is perfectly okay, so don't let that worry you. Everyone makes mistakes. The problem that led to the removal of your LifeWiki "trusted" flag was that you didn't seem to be paying attention when people asked you to do things differently. You kept making the same mistakes over and over, and often when problems were pointed out, you didn't respond in any way.

Probably the most important thing you can do is to get into the habit of responding to other people's comments and questions. It's harder to trust someone if you can't reliably carry on a conversation with them.

Re: Massive spam attacks on the wiki (and forums?)

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 1:41 am
by Entity Valkyrie 2
muzik wrote:How about putting a limit on page title lengths, and anything that exceeds that number blocks the user (if not a trusted account)?
How about: "Untrusted users can only edit their own User pages"?

Re: Massive spam attacks on the wiki (and forums?)

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 3:12 am
by Billabob
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
muzik wrote:How about putting a limit on page title lengths, and anything that exceeds that number blocks the user (if not a trusted account)?
How about: "Untrusted users can only edit their own User pages"?
From my experience on other forums, SEO spambots will often sign up accounts on wikis only to fill their user page with gambling site links. I don't see how this will benefit anyone other than you and spammers, although the distinction is a bit blurry at this point.

Re: Massive spam attacks on the wiki (and forums?)

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 4:22 am
by Apple Bottom
Billabob wrote:From my experience on other forums, SEO spambots will often sign up accounts on wikis only to fill their user page with gambling site links. I don't see how this will benefit anyone other than you and spammers, although the distinction is a bit blurry at this point.
Coming out of the woodwork for a moment, I'll agree with you and Dave.

I'll also echo Dave's sentiment that the LifeWiki's aim is to be a comprehensive resource relating to a) Conway Life specifically, and b) cellular automata in general (while not covering any other CA in the same depth as Conway Life). It's manifestly not a playground.

User pages should be used for things that are related to either the topics the LifeWiki already covers, or the wiki's technical or administrative side. There's leeway, of course (I'm pretty sure some of my own user subpages fail this criterion), but user pages are not a way to get around the restrictions and rules laid down for content in the main article namespace, rules such as "don't create pages for your own discoveries". The forum remains the best place to report those. (Or start your own blog. There's some very interesting Life-related blogs out there already, so why not start another?)

Keep in mind that the LifeWiki doesn't exist for the benefit of its authors. It exists for the benefit of its readers. It aims to be comprehensive, informative, in-depth, relevant[1], and correct (not necessarily in the order). Rules such as "don't write about your own discovery" only exist so as to remind people of the focus on the reader, and to warn them that their judgement might be clouded when writing about their own patterns.

1. "Relevant" also means that not every tidbit of information needs to be included in an article.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 5:51 am
by testitemqlstudop
To now I still do not understand why LifeWiki doesn't document every ridiculously specific discovery that perhaps can't be used later. From its suffix, LifeWiki is supposed to be a collection of all current knowledge of Life and ideally other CA. This will help newcomers and experienced contributors easily browse for suitable patterns in some construction. I don't see why the "notability guidelines" are so strict - it isn't like the server has some limit on page amounts.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 6:55 am
by Moosey
testitemqlstudop wrote:To now I still do not understand why LifeWiki doesn't document every ridiculously specific discovery that perhaps can't be used later.
There's a lot of ridiculously specific discoveries out there. I doubt we'd be capable of documenting them all. But I'd agree, I'd like to see more conduits on the wiki.
testitemqlstudop wrote:From its suffix, LifeWiki is supposed to be a collection of all current knowledge of Life and ideally other CA. This will help newcomers and experienced contributors easily browse for suitable patterns in some construction. I don't see why the "notability guidelines" are so strict - it isn't like the server has some limit on page amounts.
That's a fair point, but perhaps we can add another namespace-- SN (for seminotable) and have fewer notability guidelines there.

(And if this idea is a good one, EV deserves half the credit for stirring this whole thing up)

EDIT:
Billabob wrote: From my experience on other forums, SEO spambots will often sign up accounts on wikis only to fill their user page with gambling site links. I don't see how this will benefit anyone other than you and spammers, although the distinction is a bit blurry at this point.
I'd like to point out that, as trusted users, we could delete the content of their user pages. Because of that, it wouldn't be worse than what is already happening on the forums.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 7:44 am
by testitemqlstudop
Moosey wrote:I doubt we'd be capable of documenting them all.
One way to start is to be less restrictive to people who want to add new discoveries.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 11:29 am
by dvgrn
testitemqlstudop wrote:
Moosey wrote:I doubt we'd be capable of documenting them all.
One way to start is to be less restrictive to people who want to add new discoveries.
Among the people who have done the most work over the years to maintain the LifeWiki, there seems to be a reasonably solid consensus that

1) without manually-set "trusted" flags, the old status quo was unmanageable. Spammers were sometimes adding thousands of pages in a few minutes, and there was no way for human editors with limited time to keep up with that kind of damage.

2) with manually-set "trusted" flags, things are working out pretty well. The current system doesn't seem particularly restrictive at all. Anyone is free to add anything they want, as long as they can make persuasive arguments that their contributions belong on the LifeWiki.

If someone adds a lot of new articles without making any persuasive arguments, those changes will probably be reverted. And if someone keeps damaging large numbers of articles without responding to repeated community requests to Please Stop That, then as a last resort we can flip the trusted flag back off. We've only had to do that once so far; most people seem to settle in over time, and even more or less come to agree with the common consensus about what "notability" is.
Moosey wrote:...perhaps we can add another namespace-- SN (for seminotable) and have fewer notability guidelines there.
Personally I'm not at all interested in adding another namespace, with another set of guidelines for what goes there (since we still wouldn't want spam, or even pointless self-advertising). I wouldn't mind at all if someone wanted to create a whole separate wiki for this kind of thing, basically just like the one EV set up at one point -- earlier this year, before EV2. Then someone else could volunteer to do the maintenance work, if any... and there wouldn't be any damage to the usability of the current LifeWiki.

Re: Massive spam attacks on the wiki (and forums?)

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 11:58 am
by dvgrn
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
muzik wrote:How about putting a limit on page title lengths, and anything that exceeds that number blocks the user (if not a trusted account)?
How about: "Untrusted users can only edit their own User pages"?
@EV2: Your new account now has "trusted" status. If you only want to edit your user pages for now, then you're certainly free to do that. However, please remember that the LifeWiki is not a playground.

We're all hoping that instead of making user pages about your own patterns, you will go back to making useful non-user-page contributions and updates, like what you've done in the past -- but hopefully at a somewhat lower volume, with a little more review and proofreading!

We're also hoping that if you do go back to LifeWiki editing, you'll work on communicating a little better, by answering questions when they come up on your new user page and so on.

Also, you've made a few posts on the forums in the last day or two that seem pointless and annoying enough that people have reported them as off-topic (or "Other"). Please review these, try to understand why people found them so annoying, and be careful not to post anything like that outside of the Sandbox again.

(Moderators tend to be much less happy when they have to waste any non-zero amount of time dealing with these kinds of reports.)

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 1st, 2019, 10:05 pm
by Entity Valkyrie 2
I had decided only start editing actual LifeWiki pages from 3 October, when I am totally free of other homeworks.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 24th, 2019, 7:54 pm
by bubblegum
Can I get my account trusted sometime?(User:Bubblegum)
I'm good at spotting typos.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: October 24th, 2019, 8:14 pm
by Ian07
bubblegum wrote:
October 24th, 2019, 7:54 pm
Can I get my account trusted sometime?(User:Bubblegum)
I'm good at spotting typos.
Done!

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: November 9th, 2019, 11:24 am
by Gustone
I just registered on the wiki

I think i can make lifeviewer inlets instead of images for every page (like weekender distaff)

and lifeviewer configs for pages like space rake

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: November 9th, 2019, 11:51 am
by Ian07
Gustone wrote:
November 9th, 2019, 11:24 am
I just registered on the wiki

I think i can make lifeviewer inlets instead of images for every page (like weekender distaff)

and lifeviewer configs for pages like space rake
Done!

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: November 11th, 2019, 10:48 pm
by YaDunDidIt
Could I get my account trusted too? Messed around with Life for a while but just now getting into the community.
I'm enjoying making glider synthesis for design I can't find one for (though definitely not the first).
Thx in advance.

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: November 11th, 2019, 10:54 pm
by Ian07
YaDunDidIt wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 10:48 pm
Could I get my account trusted too? Messed around with Life for a while but just now getting into the community.
I'm enjoying making glider synthesis for design I can't find one for (though definitely not the first).
Thx in advance.
Done. Welcome to the community!

Re: LifeWiki Trusted Account Request Thread - Post requests here

Posted: November 13th, 2019, 12:58 pm
by Yoshi
Hello, I'm Yoshi! I'd like to request to have permission and granted access to edit articles on LifeWiki.