The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7664
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » October 18th, 2020, 12:26 pm


wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » October 18th, 2020, 12:37 pm

I wasn't able to stabilize one of MathAndCode's partial conduits with only stable catalysts, but I did manage to find a stabilization with a V-sparker. A pentadecathalon, Tanner's P46, or P64 thunderbird hassler can support the reaction. It is worth noting that the golden eaters are there to keep the outputs from blowing up the whole display, and that the periodic portion of the conduit is only there for cleanup.

Code: Select all

x = 124, y = 34, rule = LifeHistory
17.A48.A43.A$17.3A46.3A41.3A$20.A48.A43.A$19.2A9.E37.2A9.E13.2A17.2A
9.E$28.3E46.3E41.3E$27.E48.E14.A3.A24.E$27.2E20.2A25.2E13.A4.A23.2E$
50.A42.A.A.A$10.A38.A9.A34.A.A.A4.A$10.3A36.2A8.3A33.A4.A2.3A$13.A10.
D37.A10.D22.A3.A5.A10.D$12.2A9.3D16.2A17.2A9.3D30.2A9.3D$25.D17.A30.D
22.2A19.D$42.A$42.2A2$.2A6.2A31.2A4.A9.2A$A2.A4.A2.A30.A.A.2A.2A6.A2.
A29.A5.2A4.A$A2.A4.A2.A31.A2.2A.2A5.6A28.A4.A2.A.2A.2A$A2.A4.A2.A28.
3A14.A2.A29.A5.2A4.A$.2A6.2A29.A17.2A4$14.2A47.2A32.2A8.2A$14.2A5.C
41.2A5.C36.2A5.C$20.3C4.2A40.3C4.2A18.A3.A12.3C4.2A$22.C4.2A21.2A19.C
4.2A17.A4.A14.C4.2A$46.2A2.2A42.A.A.A$45.A.A45.A.A.A$45.A45.A4.A$44.
2A45.A3.A2$93.2A!

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 18th, 2020, 12:48 pm

wwei23 wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 12:37 pm
I wasn't able to stabilize one of MathAndCode's partial conduits with only stable catalysts, but I did manage to find a stabilization with a V-sparker. A pentadecathalon, Tanner's P46, or P64 thunderbird hassler can support the reaction. It is worth noting that the golden eaters are there to keep the outputs from blowing up the whole display, and that the periodic portion of the conduit is only there for cleanup.
The golden eater converts the R-pentomino into a phi spark, which means that this would theoretically work with two synchronized R-pentominos. Is there a way to use some smoke from a previous conduit or converter that outputs an R?
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

Jormungant
Posts: 297
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by Jormungant » October 18th, 2020, 3:58 pm

I see I see, someone opened a can of worms...

Code: Select all

x = 2033, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory
22.13D107.13D687.13D$18.20D6.6D88.20D6.6D668.20D6.6D75.18D10.19D653.
18D10.19D73.18D10.19D$16.25D2.8D85.25D2.8D665.25D2.8D72.22D6.22D33.3D
2.4D8.5D2.3D2.D3.D583.22D6.22D70.22D6.22D$14.37D83.37D663.37D72.23D5.
23D31.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D583.23D5.23D69.23D5.23D178.D3.D.5D7.5D
.5D.D3.D$12.40D80.40D660.40D70.24D4.24D31.D5.D3.D.D3.D4.D6.D.D3.D2.4D
576.24D4.24D68.24D4.24D34.D3.D.D12.3D2.5D.D3.D109.D3.D.D15.D5.D.D3.D$
11.41D79.41D659.41D70.24D4.24D31.D2.2D.4D3.D.D4.D4.3D2.5D.D3.D576.24D
4.24D68.24D4.24D34.D3.D.D11.D5.D5.D3.D38.D3.D.D12.3D2.5D.D3.D.D34.D3.
D.D5.D3.D4.D5.D2.D3.D2.4D$9.43D77.43D657.43D70.24D4.24D31.D3.D.D2.D4.
D4.D8.D.D3.D.D3.D576.24D4.24D68.24D4.24D34.D3.D.D5.D3.D.D5.D5.D3.D2.
4D32.D3.D.D11.D5.D5.D3.D.D34.5D.3D4.D.D4.D5.D3.5D.D$8.44D76.44D51.A
48.2A554.44D70.24D4.24D31.D3.D.D3.D2.D.D2.D5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D576.24D4.
24D68.24D4.24D34.5D.D6.D.D2.4D3.3D2.5D.D3.D32.D3.D.D5.D3.D.D5.D5.D3.D
.4D31.D3.D.D7.D4.D5.D4.D3.D.D$7.45D75.45D50.A.A47.3B21.B530.45D71.23D
5.23D32.3D2.D3.D.D3.D.D6.3D2.D3.D2.4D577.23D5.23D69.23D5.23D34.D3.D.D
7.D3.D3.D5.D.D3.D.D3.D32.5D.D6.D.D2.4D3.3D2.5D.D3.D30.D3.D.D6.D.D2.D
5.D5.D3.D.D$6.46D24.6D44.46D49.A.BA2.2A41.A3BA20.2B529.46D24.6D41.22D
6.22D650.22D6.22D23.6D41.22D6.22D35.D3.D.D6.D.D2.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D
32.D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D5.D.D3.D.D3.D30.D3.D.D5.D3.D.D5.D5.D3.D2.4D$6.18D
10.18D23.9D42.18D10.18D48.A.2B3.2A41.A4BA18.3B529.18D10.18D23.9D41.
18D10.19D653.18D10.19D23.9D41.18D10.19D36.D3.D.5D.D3.D2.3D3.3D2.D3.D
2.4D32.D3.D.D6.D.D2.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$5.16D16.15D22.12D39.16D16.15D
48.2A.4A34.B9.BABA.A16.4B528.16D16.15D22.12D41.11D20.11D658.11D20.11D
25.12D41.11D20.11D112.D3.D.5D.D3.D2.3D3.3D2.D3.D.4D$4.15D20.13D22.13D
37.15D20.13D50.2A2.5A30.2B10.A.ABAB13.4B528.15D20.13D22.13D40.11D20.
11D658.11D20.11D25.13D40.11D20.11D$4.14D22.12D22.15D35.14D22.12D37.A
8.4A.2AB4.A30.3B10.A4BA11.4B529.14D22.12D22.15D38.11D20.11D658.11D20.
11D25.15D38.11D20.11D$3.14D24.11D22.17D32.14D24.11D37.3A5.A4.A.A.2A
33.4B10.A3BA10.4B529.14D24.11D22.17D36.11D20.11D658.11D20.11D25.17D
36.11D20.11D$3.13D25.11D22.19D30.13D25.11D40.A5.3A.A.2BA.A33.4B9.3B
11.4B530.13D25.11D22.19D34.11D20.11D59.A598.11D20.11D25.19D34.11D20.
11D45.2A.2A2.2A4.B$2.13D26.11D22.21D27.13D26.11D39.ABA6.A.A5B.A33.4B
9.2C10.4B530.13D26.11D22.21D32.11D20.11D57.3A598.11D20.11D25.21D32.
11D20.11D46.A.A2.A.A3.3D132.A$2.12D28.9D25.20D26.12D28.9D34.B5.A.AB6.
2B.4A.A34.4B10.B3.B4.4B531.12D28.9D25.20D31.11D20.11D56.A601.11D20.
11D27.20D31.11D20.11D45.A3.2A.B4.BDB70.7B55.3A12.B.3B.B.2B$.13D28.9D
26.21D23.13D28.9D34.2B5.A3B5.2AB2ABA.2A34.4B4.2B.3B2.9B531.13D28.9D
26.21D29.11D20.11D55.B2A600.11D20.11D28.21D29.11D20.11D46.2A.A2.2B2.
2B3D65.2A2.B3D3B58.A10.13B$.12D31.6D29.21D21.12D31.6D35.3B6.4B3.BA2B
2A.A37.4B2.7B.9B532.12D31.6D29.21D27.11D20.11D41.2A10.5B600.11D20.11D
30.21D27.11D20.11D47.A.A.BA8B63.2B2AB.2BD4B57.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD$.12D68.
21D19.12D72.4B5.6B2.3B.B.A38.4B.16B533.12D68.21D25.11D20.11D42.A7.D2.
3B602.11D20.11D32.21D25.11D20.11D46.A2.A.A.A8B62.4B2.2B3D2B57.8B3.2B
2A9B3DB$.11D71.20D18.11D74.4B4.7B2.D3.A40.21B532.11D71.20D24.11D20.
11D42.A.AB2.3BD4B602.11D20.11D34.20D24.11D20.11D44.A2.3A.2A2.7B62.5B.
6B60.8B.13BDBD$.11D48.45D16.11D75.4B2.8B.2B4.3A37.21B532.11D48.45D22.
42D43.2AB.2B3D3BA2B600.42D11.45D22.42D44.3A9.5B6.2A55.12B60.22BD$12D
48.47D13.12D76.16B6.A37.21B531.12D48.47D20.42D45.9BABA3B598.42D11.47D
20.42D47.A7.6B5.A2.A.2A52.11B59.15B.2B2.2B$12D48.49D11.12D77.16B42.
21B532.12D48.49D18.42D44.10BABA3B598.42D11.49D18.42D46.2A3.B4.6B3.ABA
.A.2A52.10B6.2A50.17B$12D48.50D10.12D77.17B40.23B531.12D48.50D17.42D
45.10BA2B.B2A596.42D11.50D17.42D46.8B.7B3.B.A.A52.13B5.A2.A.2A44.18B$
11D49.52D8.11D78.5BD12B38.2A9BD13B530.11D49.52D15.42D43.2AB.11B.BA.A
9.2B584.42D11.52D15.42D48.13B3.A2BA.A.2A49.14B3.ABA.A.2A44.2BD15B$11D
49.54D6.11D78.6BD12B37.2A10BD8B.4B529.11D49.54D13.42D42.A.AB3.7B6.A8.
3A584.42D11.54D13.42D48.13B2.D2A2.BA.A49.15B3.B.A.A46.3BDBD4B.7B$11D
17.26D6.52D8.11D17.26D33.2AB.2B3D7B2.4B37.9B3D5B5.4B528.11D17.26D6.
52D15.42D42.A7.7B5.2A7.3BAB582.42D11.52D15.42D47.16B.3B.A3.A48.14B3.A
2BA.A.2A44.2B3D13B$11D15.29D5.50D10.11D15.29D31.A.AB2.11B3.4B37.16B6.
4B527.11D15.29D5.50D17.42D41.2A7.6B14.A3BAB582.42D11.50D17.42D45.17B
3.AB.A.2A50.13B2.D2A2.BA.A44.5BD14B$11D14.31D4.49D11.11D14.31D30.A5.
10B5.4B36.18B5.4B526.11D14.31D4.49D18.42D50.7B12.A.A2BA583.42D11.49D
18.42D43.18B3.A.A.A.A50.16B.3B.A3.A42.10B2.8B$11D14.31D4.47D13.11D14.
31D29.2A5.2B2A6B6.3B37.8B2A9B4.4B525.11D14.31D4.47D20.42D50.8B9.A2BA.
A585.42D11.47D20.42D43.2BD13B5.2A2.A.A48.17B3.AB.A.2A42.4B11.7B$11D
14.31D28.21D15.11D14.31D35.3B2A6B7.2B36.8BA2BA8B5.4B524.11D14.31D28.
21D22.11D20.11D50.9B5.B.BA3BA586.11D20.11D35.21D22.11D20.11D42.3BDBD
4B.7B8.2A47.19B2.A.A.A.A43.3B12.8B$12D13.31D26.21D17.12D13.31D36.10B
8.B35.10BABA9B5.4B523.12D13.31D26.21D24.11D20.11D50.5B.4B3.4BA3B587.
11D20.11D33.21D24.11D20.11D43.2B3D4B2.B.4B2A55.2BD15B3.2A2.A.A41.4B
14.8B$12D13.31D25.21D18.12D13.31D36.8B.B2A42.11BA9B7.3B523.12D13.31D
25.21D25.11D20.11D49.7B.8B3.3A587.11D20.11D32.21D25.11D20.11D42.5BD4B
7.A2BA2.2A49.3BDBD4B.7B8.2A42.2AB15.3B2.3BD$12D13.31D23.21D20.12D13.
31D35.7B3.B2AB42.20B.BA5.2B523.12D13.31D23.21D27.11D20.11D49.3B2A2B2.
7BAB.2B588.11D20.11D30.21D27.11D20.11D41.10B8.ABAB3.A2.A47.2B3D4B2.6B
53.A15.D6.DBD$.11D14.29D22.21D23.11D14.29D36.6B6.B38.2A3.19B2.2AB5.B
524.11D14.29D22.21D29.11D20.11D50.2B2AB4.5BABAB590.11D20.11D28.21D29.
11D20.11D40.4B16.A4B.A.A.A45.5BD4B3.4B51.3A15.3A6.2D$.11D16.26D22.20D
25.11D16.26D38.5B4.A.3A36.A3.17B3.DAB2A530.11D16.26D22.20D31.11D20.
11D50.6B3.5B2A2B590.11D20.11D27.20D31.11D20.11D40.3B19.B2A.A2.A45.10B
5.5B49.A17.3B$.11D29.11D22.20D27.11D29.11D40.5B4.2A3.A37.A.2AB.14B2.
3A2BA529.11D29.11D22.20D33.11D20.11D50.6B2.8B.B2A588.11D20.11D25.20D
33.11D20.11D38.4B20.BAB.A47.4B15.2A66.A3BA$.12D28.11D22.19D28.12D28.
11D40.4B8.2A37.2AB2AB5.B2.B2.B2AB3.BABA.A528.12D28.11D22.19D34.11D20.
11D49.7B.7B3.BA.A587.11D20.11D25.19D34.11D20.11D38.2A20.A4.A48.3B16.A
67.AB.BA$2.11D28.11D22.17D31.11D28.11D41.5B3.3A42.B6.3B5.2A6.A.ABAB
527.11D28.11D22.17D36.11D20.11D49.6B.4B.2B2A5.A587.11D20.11D25.17D36.
11D20.11D39.A20.5A47.4B18.3A65.3B$2.12D27.11D22.15D33.12D27.11D44.2A
2.A2.A39.2A.2A5.B2AB13.A2B3A526.12D27.11D22.15D38.11D20.11D50.9B4.2A
5.2A586.11D20.11D25.15D38.11D20.11D36.3A73.2A22.A64.A3BA$2.13D26.11D
22.13D35.13D26.11D44.A3.2A42.A.A7.2A15.2ABAB526.13D26.11D22.13D40.11D
20.11D50.8B600.11D20.11D25.13D40.11D20.11D36.A25.A50.A86.A.3A.A$3.13D
25.11D22.12D37.13D25.11D45.3A44.A.A24.B2A529.13D25.11D22.12D41.11D20.
11D49.9B600.11D20.11D25.12D41.11D20.11D61.A.A46.3A87.A.B.B.A$3.15D23.
11D23.9D39.15D23.11D47.A45.A26.AB529.15D23.11D23.9D43.11D20.11D49.9B
600.11D20.11D26.9D43.11D20.11D62.A47.A88.2A.A.A.2A$4.16D19.13D24.6D
42.16D19.13D652.16D19.13D24.6D45.11D20.11D49.6B603.11D20.11D27.6D45.
11D20.11D198.A2.2A.2A2.A$4.20D11.17D72.20D11.17D652.20D11.17D71.20D
10.20D45.B3D2B599.20D10.20D70.20D10.20D194.2A7.2A$5.47D73.47D653.47D
70.23D6.23D44.3BD2B598.23D6.23D68.23D6.23D$6.46D74.46D654.46D69.25D5.
24D43.2B3DB597.25D5.24D66.25D5.24D$7.45D75.45D655.45D69.25D4.26D45.B
599.25D4.26D65.25D4.26D$8.44D76.44D656.44D68.26D4.26D644.26D4.26D64.
26D4.26D$9.42D78.42D658.42D69.26D4.26D644.26D4.26D64.26D4.26D$10.39D
81.39D661.39D72.25D4.26D645.25D4.26D65.25D4.26D$12.35D85.35D665.35D
74.25D5.24D646.25D5.24D66.25D5.24D$15.30D90.30D670.30D77.23D6.23D648.
23D6.23D68.23D6.23D$18.24D96.24D676.24D82.19D10.20D651.19D10.20D71.
19D10.20D$23.14D106.14D686.14D!
Not sure how to structure theses, that wont be trivial.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 18th, 2020, 6:16 pm

Jormungant wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 3:58 pm
I see I see, someone opened a can of worms...
This isn't that bad. If nothing else, periodic conduits are partials for stable conduits that could be completed.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » October 18th, 2020, 6:24 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:16 pm
Jormungant wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 3:58 pm
I see I see, someone opened a can of worms...
This isn't that bad. If nothing else, periodic conduits are partials for stable conduits that could be completed.
I would also like to add:
A periodic stabilization is better than no stabilization at all.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 18th, 2020, 6:51 pm

wwei23 wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:24 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:16 pm
Jormungant wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 3:58 pm
I see I see, someone opened a can of worms...
This isn't that bad. If nothing else, periodic conduits are partials for stable conduits that could be completed.
I would also like to add:
A periodic stabilization is better than no stabilization at all.
I agree with that, but that's the part that appeared to worry Jormungant.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7664
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » October 18th, 2020, 7:00 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:51 pm
wwei23 wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:24 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 6:16 pm
This isn't that bad. If nothing else, periodic conduits are partials for stable conduits that could be completed.
I would also like to add:
A periodic stabilization is better than no stabilization at all.
I agree with that, but that's the part that appeared to worry Jormungant.
The "can of worms" is just that there are so incredibly many of these periodic conduits, that it's likely to be a real challenge to keep them all organized.

If someone wants to tackle this in an organized way, I'd suggest adapting the stamp-collection-maker script from the Elementary Conduits Collection, and start making separate small files for each periodic conduit, with standardized names applied in the comments for each file. Unless some kind of centralized repository is kept up to date, after about ten pages of this thread it will get really hard to remember or figure out if a "new" conduit discovery is really just an old one that everyone has forgotten about.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 18th, 2020, 7:20 pm

dvgrn wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 7:00 pm
The "can of worms" is just that there are so incredibly many of these periodic conduits, that it's likely to be a real challenge to keep them all organized.

If someone wants to tackle this in an organized way, I'd suggest adapting the stamp-collection-maker script from the Elementary Conduits Collection, and start making separate small files for each periodic conduit, with standardized names applied in the comments for each file. Unless some kind of centralized repository is kept up to date, after about ten pages of this thread it will get really hard to remember or figure out if a "new" conduit discovery is really just an old one that everyone has forgotten about.
I see what you mean; this could get out of hand easily, For example, maybe the conduits should be sorted by period in order to make it easier for people trying to build something. However, conduits that work at a certain period will also be useful for multiples of that period, so maybe they should also be listed for multiples of that period. However, even if periodic conduits are not listed under multiples of their periods, there is still the question of what to do with conduits that can be stabilized by sparkers of multiple periods. And if periodic conduits are listed under multiples of their periods, what if one sparker can be replaced by a larger sparker with a factor of the first sparker's period? In addition, some oscillators throw sparks in multiple directions, which raises the question of whether or not composite conduits based on that should be categorized…
Maybe instead of having humans deal with this nightmare (which is similar to the knapsack problem), someone should create a computer program to handle this.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7664
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » October 18th, 2020, 7:43 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 7:20 pm
Maybe instead of having humans deal with this nightmare (which is similar to the knapsack problem), someone should create a computer program to handle this.
Just collecting all the data -- repeat time, period, input and output signals, etc. -- as comments in separate pattern files for each conduit, would be a very good start. Then in the future we can easily add a little code to the stamp-collection maker script, to do things like filter out all conduits with a repeat time over X, or show only conduits compatible with period P, or only conduits with an R-pentomino input.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 28th, 2020, 3:13 pm

wwei23 found a periodic R→L based off a stable near-convertor that I found.
wwei23 wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 2:44 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 2:01 pm
This is frustratingly close but does not appear to be completabe.

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$11b2o$10b2o$2b2o7bo$bobo$bo$2o!
#C [[ RLE dot o! ]]
#C [[ PASTET 18 ]]
#C [[ PASTE dot 9 2 ]]
A figure 8 will do. Now to remove the block somehow.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
2b2o2$o3bo$o4bo$2bobobo$3bobobo$4bo4bo$5bo3bo2$6b2o4$12b2o$11b2o$3b2o
7bo$2bobo$2bo$b2o!
Here's a way to remove the block.

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$16bo2bobo$o3bo9b2obob3o$o4bo9bo6bo$2bobobo7b2o5bo$3bobobo$4bo4bo5bo5b2o$5bo3bo4bo6bo$15b3obob2o$6b2o7bobo2bo4$12b2o$11b2o$3b2o7bo$2bobo$2bo$b2o!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7664
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » October 28th, 2020, 3:19 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 3:13 pm
wwei23 found a periodic R→L based off a stable near-convertor that I found...
Here's a way to remove the block.
Do you have a known X-to-R conduit that can put the R-pentomino in that position?

This has always been the big problem with attempted contributions to the Elementary Conduits collection. People new to conduit-making start out with a pi, R, B, or whatever, add catalysts and find a nice conversion -- but they end up putting catalysts right in the way of all the likely directions that a signal could travel to get to the input point.

This one seems less unlikely than some candidate conduits, but it might be tough to find an X-to-R that still lets the LWSS escape.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 28th, 2020, 6:21 pm

dvgrn wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Do you have a known X-to-R conduit that can put the R-pentomino in that position?

This has always been the big problem with attempted contributions to the Elementary Conduits collection. People new to conduit-making start out with a pi, R, B, or whatever, add catalysts and find a nice conversion -- but they end up putting catalysts right in the way of all the likely directions that a signal could travel to get to the input point.

This one seems less unlikely than some candidate conduits, but it might be tough to find an X-to-R that still lets the LWSS escape.
I didn't worry about it at the time because Rs, unlike Bs and Hs, tend to not only form in a single orientation relative to the reaction that created them; however, after I saw your post, I looked at a few R conduits, and none of them seemed to work (although I haven't gone through the full list). My inspiration for creating the partial was observing a shape that appeared to resemble a LWSS in generations 23 and 24 of an R-pentomino without any catalysts, so it's possible (but not likely) that an alternative catalyst could be used that could provide more clearance if necessary.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » October 28th, 2020, 8:55 pm

Come on. Another near miss, this time with a blinker:

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
3b2o5b2o$3b2o5b2o12$4bo5bo$3b3o3b3o$2bo3bobo3bo$2bo9bo$3b3o3b3o5$5b2ob
2o$6bobo$2b2ob2ob2ob2o$2bo2bo3bobo$2bo7bo$2bo2bo$3b2o2$9bobo$10bo4$11b
2o$10b2o$11bo$2b2o$3bo$3o$o!
EDIT: This probably doesn't do any better, because the sparker is too wide. I still think it's a bit better.

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9b3o$3b2o4b3o4b2o$3bobo3b3o3bobo$5bo9bo$5b2o7b2o$8b5o$3b15o$2bo6b
3o6bo$2bo2b4obob4o2bo$b2obo3b2ob2o3bob2o$o3b2o2bo3bo2b2o3bo$3o6b3o6b3o
$3b5o5b5o$2bo4b2obob2o4bo$2b2o2b3obob3o2b2o$10bo2$2o6bo3bo$bo8bo$bobo$
2b2o2$12b2o$11b2o$12bo!
Edit 2: Better than the last one:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
10bo2bo$8b3o2b3o$7bo3b2o3bo$6bo2bobo2bobo$6bob2o2b4o$5b2o4bo$4bo2bobob
5o$4bobo7bobo$3b2ob2obob2o3bo$3bo9b3o$4b3o4bobo$6bo4b2o$7b5o$2o$bo$bob
o$2b2o2$11b2o$10b2o$11bo!

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 28th, 2020, 9:38 pm

wwei23 wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 8:55 pm

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
10bo2bo$8b3o2b3o$7bo3b2o3bo$6bo2bobo2bobo$6bob2o2b4o$5b2o4bo$4bo2bobob
5o$4bobo7bobo$3b2ob2obob2o3bo$3bo9b3o$4b3o4bobo$6bo4b2o$7b5o$2o$bo$bob
o$2b2o2$11b2o$10b2o$11bo!
I removed one cell in a way that I knew would create a blockade just for fun.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
7bo2bo$5b3o2b3o$4bo3b2o3bo$3bo2bobo2bobo$3bob2o3b3o$2b2o2bo$bo2bo2b6o$bobo3bo3bobo$2ob2o2b3o3bo$o5bo3b3o$b3ob2obobo$3b2o2bobo7$5b2o$4bo2$8bo$9bo$5bo3bo$6b3o!
Kazyan wrote:
October 27th, 2020, 10:13 pm
As for active regions to search catalysts for, perhaps one half of a LoM explosion. It tends to split apart around generation 20.

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
25bo2bo$23b3o2b3o$22bo3b2o3bo$21bo2bobo2bobo$21bob2o3b3o$20b2o2bo$19bo2bo2b6o$19bobo3bo3bobo$18b2ob2o2b3o3bo$18bo5bo3b3o$19b3ob2obobo$21b2o2bobo3$2b2o3b2o$bo2bobo2bo$bob2ob2obo$2o2bobo2b2o22b2o$2bobobobo3bo20b2o$2b5o2b2obo$2o4bo2bo2b2o$bob3o5b3o12bo$bo2bo6b3o13bo$2bo3bob2o2bo10bo3bo$3b3ob2ob2o12b3o$5bo4bo$6b3obo$8b2o5$25b2o$25b2o!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

Sphenocorona
Posts: 521
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by Sphenocorona » October 28th, 2020, 11:20 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 3:13 pm
wwei23 found a periodic R→L based off a stable near-convertor that I found.
I remember seeing (either by finding it myself or seeing others mention it) this general spark-assisted LWSS production method a few years back, though I'm not sure if a truly usable periodic conduit based on it was ever made at the time.

Regardless, I think this relatively compact form using Karel's p15 should prove that some versions of this reaction *can* be used in periodic conduit circuitry:

Code: Select all

x = 86, y = 54, rule = LifeHistory
26.B$25.BAB5.B$25.3A4.3B$24.ABABA3.BAB$24.ABABA2.BAB2A$23.2B3A2B.BAB
2A$23.3BA3B.3AB$22.9B.3B$22.9B.3B10.2A$23.3BA3B.3AB8.2B2AB8.2A$23.2B
3A2B.BAB2A7.4B9.A$24.ABABA2.BAB2A7.9B.BA.A$24.ABABA3.BAB9.8B.B2A$25.
3A4.3B8.11B$25.BAB4.3B8.12B$26.B5.5B.B.14B$7.4B7.A12.24B$8.4B6.3A8.B.
24B$9.4B8.A6.2C8B2D16B$10.4B6.2A6.2C7B2D18B$11.4B5.6B3.9BD18B$12.4B6.
5B2.3B4.50B$13.4B4.7B7.51B$14.4B2.8B7.51B$15.14B2.2B2.51B$16.22BD47B$
12.2A3.21BDBD4B.9B$13.A4.20B3D4B2.7B5.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D$13.
A.AB.22BD4B2.7B10.A$14.2A28B4.6B5.D3.BAB5.B$15.17B.4B10.7B9.3B4.3A$
17.19B12.6B5.D2.2BA2B3.3B$8.A10.16B13.7B7.BABAB2.A3BA$8.3A8.15B14.6B
5.D.7B.B3AB$11.A7.14B15.5B8.2B3A2B.4B$10.2A3.B3.13B15.6B6.D9B.3B$10.
8B.12B16.4B9.9B.3B$12.18B17.2B2AB7.D.2B3A2B.4B$12.17B20.2A10.7B.B3AB$
11.17B31.D2.BABAB2.A3BA$9.18B35.2BA2B3.3B$7.19B33.D3.3B4.3A$7.2BC15B
38.BAB4.3B$6.3BCBC4B.9B33.D4.A5.5B.B$7.2B3C4B2.7B44.9B$6.5BC4B4.5B34.
D7.B.10B$5.10B3.5B43.2C8B2CB$4.4B10.2A39.D6.2C7B2C2B$4.3B12.A47.9BC2B
$2.4B10.3A40.D7.3B4.12B$2.2A12.A56.13B$3.A55.D13.13B$3A71.12B$A58.D
14.12B!
I don't know if other conduit combinations can precede this as well, this is just the first that worked. Even still, most other R outputs either collide with the sparker or block the output lane, as seems to keep happening to working L outputs for some reason. Fortunately, the existence of a compatible backwards turn conduit for the initial input means this one doesn't end up too painful.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 28th, 2020, 11:43 pm

Sphenocorona wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 11:20 pm
I remember seeing (either by finding it myself or seeing others mention it) this general spark-assisted LWSS production method a few years back, though I'm not sure if a truly usable periodic conduit based on it was ever made at the time.

Regardless, I think this relatively compact form using Karel's p15 should prove that some versions of this reaction *can* be used in periodic conduit circuitry:

Code: Select all

x = 86, y = 54, rule = LifeHistory
26.B$25.BAB5.B$25.3A4.3B$24.ABABA3.BAB$24.ABABA2.BAB2A$23.2B3A2B.BAB
2A$23.3BA3B.3AB$22.9B.3B$22.9B.3B10.2A$23.3BA3B.3AB8.2B2AB8.2A$23.2B
3A2B.BAB2A7.4B9.A$24.ABABA2.BAB2A7.9B.BA.A$24.ABABA3.BAB9.8B.B2A$25.
3A4.3B8.11B$25.BAB4.3B8.12B$26.B5.5B.B.14B$7.4B7.A12.24B$8.4B6.3A8.B.
24B$9.4B8.A6.2C8B2D16B$10.4B6.2A6.2C7B2D18B$11.4B5.6B3.9BD18B$12.4B6.
5B2.3B4.50B$13.4B4.7B7.51B$14.4B2.8B7.51B$15.14B2.2B2.51B$16.22BD47B$
12.2A3.21BDBD4B.9B$13.A4.20B3D4B2.7B5.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D.D$13.
A.AB.22BD4B2.7B10.A$14.2A28B4.6B5.D3.BAB5.B$15.17B.4B10.7B9.3B4.3A$
17.19B12.6B5.D2.2BA2B3.3B$8.A10.16B13.7B7.BABAB2.A3BA$8.3A8.15B14.6B
5.D.7B.B3AB$11.A7.14B15.5B8.2B3A2B.4B$10.2A3.B3.13B15.6B6.D9B.3B$10.
8B.12B16.4B9.9B.3B$12.18B17.2B2AB7.D.2B3A2B.4B$12.17B20.2A10.7B.B3AB$
11.17B31.D2.BABAB2.A3BA$9.18B35.2BA2B3.3B$7.19B33.D3.3B4.3A$7.2BC15B
38.BAB4.3B$6.3BCBC4B.9B33.D4.A5.5B.B$7.2B3C4B2.7B44.9B$6.5BC4B4.5B34.
D7.B.10B$5.10B3.5B43.2C8B2CB$4.4B10.2A39.D6.2C7B2C2B$4.3B12.A47.9BC2B
$2.4B10.3A40.D7.3B4.12B$2.2A12.A56.13B$3.A55.D13.13B$3A71.12B$A58.D
14.12B!
I don't know if other conduit combinations can precede this as well, this is just the first that worked. Even still, most other R outputs either collide with the sparker or block the output lane, as seems to keep happening to working L outputs for some reason. Fortunately, the existence of a compatible backwards turn conduit for the initial input means this one doesn't end up too painful.
That's a clever find. I thought of the pentadecathlon but not Karel's p15.
Also, I'm sorry for accidentally stealing your discovery (or whoever's discovery that was).
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

Hunting
Posts: 4302
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 2:54 am

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by Hunting » October 29th, 2020, 12:38 am

I'm joining the fun. Modifying Kittyst.
wwei23 wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 2:44 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 2:01 pm
This is frustratingly close but does not appear to be completabe.

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$11b2o$10b2o$2b2o7bo$bobo$bo$2o!
#C [[ RLE dot o! ]]
#C [[ PASTET 18 ]]
#C [[ PASTE dot 9 2 ]]
A figure 8 will do. Now to remove the block somehow.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
2b2o2$o3bo$o4bo$2bobobo$3bobobo$4bo4bo$5bo3bo2$6b2o4$12b2o$11b2o$3b2o
7bo$2bobo$2bo$b2o!
Judging from this post, not all R+catalyst+spark reactions are enumerated?
she/her

LeapLife is the 4th most searched non-totalistic rule on Catagolue, after Rule X3VI, Snowflakes and FishLife.

A LeapLife Status Report (NOW WITH LIFEVIEWER ANIMATION!)

LeapLife - DirtyLife - LispLife

Welcome back.

Sphenocorona
Posts: 521
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by Sphenocorona » October 29th, 2020, 12:50 am

MathAndCode wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 11:43 pm
Also, I'm sorry for accidentally stealing your discovery (or whoever's discovery that was).
Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. These sorts of simple reactions (in this case R + dot spark + [one of several simple catalyst placements]) are often re-discoveries of older (sometimes very old) findings, but every so often there's the exception anybody could've easily found, but that nobody's heard of before. If you look on the forums and can't find any mention of one of these sorts of useful but simple reactions, it can't hurt to mention it in an appropriate thread. If it's known, at least the forums will get a bit more documentation on it, but if not, you may be the lucky one to have found it! In this case, the fact that you and wwei23 brought it up means that we now have an example of a working conduit with it in a place where it hopefully won't end up getting lost :)

On the matter of the conduit itself, for periods up to 20, the only other oscillator choice I could find that's compatible with the input method above produces a p14 version of the conduit:

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
5.B3.B$4.5BAB$.2B.4B3A.2B$2A4B2A3BAB2A$2AB.2BA2B2A.B2A$.B.3BAB2A2B.B$
4.3B.3B2$4.3B.3B$.B.3BAB2A2B.B$2AB.2BA2B2A.B2A$2A4B2A3BAB2A$.2B.4B3A.
2B$4.5BAB$5.B2.3B$8.5B.B$7.9B$5.B.10B$4.2C8B2CB$4.2C7B2C2B$5.9BC2B$5.
3B4.12B$11.13B$11.13B$12.12B$12.12B!

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 29th, 2020, 10:15 am

Sphenocorona wrote:
October 29th, 2020, 12:50 am
Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. These sorts of simple reactions (in this case R + dot spark + [one of several simple catalyst placements]) are often re-discoveries of older (sometimes very old) findings, but every so often there's the exception anybody could've easily found, but that nobody's heard of before. If you look on the forums and can't find any mention of one of these sorts of useful but simple reactions, it can't hurt to mention it in an appropriate thread. If it's known, at least the forums will get a bit more documentation on it, but if not, you may be the lucky one to have found it! In this case, the fact that you and wwei23 brought it up means that we now have an example of a working conduit with it in a place where it hopefully won't end up getting lost :)

On the matter of the conduit itself, for periods up to 20, the only other oscillator choice I could find that's compatible with the input method above produces a p14 version of the conduit:

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
5.B3.B$4.5BAB$.2B.4B3A.2B$2A4B2A3BAB2A$2AB.2BA2B2A.B2A$.B.3BAB2A2B.B$
4.3B.3B2$4.3B.3B$.B.3BAB2A2B.B$2AB.2BA2B2A.B2A$2A4B2A3BAB2A$.2B.4B3A.
2B$4.5BAB$5.B2.3B$8.5B.B$7.9B$5.B.10B$4.2C8B2CB$4.2C7B2C2B$5.9BC2B$5.
3B4.12B$11.13B$11.13B$12.12B$12.12B!
When I found it, I figured that it couldn't be completed due to the sparks that the R-pentomino throws off right where the ideal catalyst would go, so I didn't think about whether or not it had already been discovered (which, now that I think about it, still displays faulty reasoning), although now that multiple periodic completions have been found, a stable completion seems somewhat more likely (although still not very likely).
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 29th, 2020, 4:05 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 29th, 2020, 3:41 pm
I doubt that it would be possible to get a conduit out of this (although that's what I thought last time).
I was wrong.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2$9bo15b2o$9b3o13bo$10bo15bo$25b2o2$32b2o$32bo$33bo$32b2o2$19bo2bo9b2o$17b2o4b2o6bobo$19bo2bo9bo$22b2ob2o6b3o$24b2ob2o6bo$22bo2bo$20b3o3b3o$22bo$22b2obo$23bo2bo$26bo$23bo2bo$24b2o2b2o$28bobo$30bo$30b2o!


Edit: Here is a demonstration that it can be connected to other conduits (between an intentionally messy RF28B and a Bx222).

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 53, rule = LifeHistory
19.2A8.2A$20.A8.2A$20.A.A$21.2A2$28.C15.2A$28.3C13.A$29.C15.A$44.2A2$51.2A$11.3D37.A$12.D39.A$10.3D38.2A2$.A36.A2.A9.2A$.3A32.2A4.2A6.A.A$4.A21.3D.D7.A2.A9.A$3.A.A21.3D11.2A.2A6.3A$4.A22.3D13.2A.2A6.A$41.A2.A$2.A36.3A3.3A$.A.A.A35.A$.A2.2A35.2A.A$2A40.A2.A$45.A$42.A2.A$43.2A2.2A$47.A.A$10.2A19.2A16.A$10.2A19.2A16.2A2$.2A.A7.D$.A.2A6.3D18.2A$10.2D.D18.A$33.3A$35.A2$7.2A$6.A.A$6.A13.D.D6.2A.A$5.2A13.D.D6.A.2A$20.3D4$8.A.2A$6.3A.2A$5.A$6.3A.2A6.2A$8.A.A8.A$8.A.A5.3A$9.A6.A!
The BFx1H only needs to have trailing junk behind the B-heptomino if it is not followed by a dependent conduit, but dependent conduits are dependent on the input object being formed in the standard manner (which is not the original meaning of dependent, but I like this one better because it allows the term to be applied to conduits accepting objects besides Herschels), the only dependent conduit that accepts an object that enters the Herschel sequence so late is L122, which doesn't fit in this case, so I will try to find a conduit that can make the R-pentomino (obviously with the Herschel going into a different conduit) or an alternative way to make the B-heptomino. (Does anyone know of conduits that turn an active region into a B-heptomino with some junk just behind it?)



Another edit: I somehow made a Herschel going in the opposite direction (although it's definitely useless unless, at the very least, someone finds a more compact V-sparker).

Code: Select all

x = 45, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
2A$.A$.A.A$2.2A12.3D$17.D$15.3D8$18.C15.2A$18.3C13.A$19.C15.A$34.2A2$41.2A$41.A$42.A$41.2A2$28.A2.A9.2A$26.2A4.2A6.A.A$16.3D.D7.A2.A9.A$17.3D11.2A.2A6.3A$17.3D13.2A.2A6.A$31.A2.A$29.3A3.3A$31.A$17.2A12.2A.A$17.2A13.A2.A$35.A$32.A2.A$33.2A2.2A$37.A.A$39.A$39.2A!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

Sphenocorona
Posts: 521
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by Sphenocorona » October 29th, 2020, 8:26 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 29th, 2020, 4:05 pm
(Does anyone know of conduits that turn an active region into a B-heptomino with some junk just behind it?)
Here's one that works:

Code: Select all

x = 45, y = 71, rule = LifeHistory
10.B$9.3D$9.BDB$8.2B3D$8.5B$8.6B$8.6B$8.5B$7.6B$8.6B$7.7B$7.6B15.2A$
7.8B4.B8.A$8.B2A6B.4B3.BA.A$7.2B2A13B.B2A$8.18B13.2A$9.17B13.A$12.13B
11.BA.A$11.12B10.2A.B2A$11.10B11.B2A2B$10.11B12.4B$10.7B.2B11.6B$9.
11B11.9B$10.11B9.11B$10.11B8.12B$10.11B7.13B$8.2AB2.4B3DB4.15B4.A$7.A
.AB3.4BD4BA4BA10B3.3A$7.A6.2B3D3BA6BA3B3A4B.A$6.2A7.8BA4BA4BA6BA.A$
15.7B3.8B3A5B2A$14.9B4.B.8B.2B$15.9B6.7B4.2A$15.9B7.6B5.A$15.8B7.6B5.
A$14.10B.B5.5B5.2A$13.10B.2BA6.2B$12.13BA.A6.2A$13.6BD4B.BA8.A$14.4B
3D3B10.A$15.3BD5B10.2A$15.8B$14.9B$12.11B$12.10B$11.12B$10.14B$10.17B
$11.15B2A$11.15B2A$10.17B$7.16B$6.16B$6.16B$5.16B$4.20B$4.20B$5.20B$
4.22B$2.24B$25B$2BC13B.10B$2BCBC4B.7B2.2B4.2A$2B3C4B2.3B.B4.B4.A$4BC
4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A$8B4.BA2.A4.A6.A$B12.3A5.A.A$22.2A$13.3A$13.A2.A$15.
2A!

MathAndCode
Posts: 3802
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » October 29th, 2020, 9:02 pm

Sphenocorona wrote:
October 29th, 2020, 8:26 pm
Here's one that works
Thank you. I definitely would not have thought of placing a tub there.
So now we have HLx111R, an intentionally messy RF28B, a dependent p46 BFx1H, then an Fx77. Of course, the right V-sparker would allow us to use a normal RF28B instead of an intentionally messy one (which is why I treat the BFx1H as a separate conduit), but Tanner's p46 is the only V-sparker that I've tried so far that works. However, I believe that wwei23 has been looking for more V-sparkers lately, so maybe that will change soon.



Edit: I found a new V-sparker, but unfortunately, not a new period.

Code: Select all

x = 54, y = 70, rule = LifeHistory
9.3D$9.BDB$8.2B3D$8.5B$8.6B$8.6B$8.5B$7.6B$8.6B$7.7B$7.6B15.2A$7.8B4.B8.A$8.B2A6B.4B3.BA.A$7.2B2A13B.B2A$8.18B$9.17B$12.13B$11.12B$11.10B11.B3.B$10.11B18.BA.A2.2A$10.7B.2B5.2A4.2B.B4.A3.A.3A4.2A$9.11B5.2A4.2B.B2.3BA6.2A3.2A$10.11B9.3B.B2.4B5A.A$10.11B8.4B.B3.3B3.3A$10.11B4.A.A3BABAB3.3B$8.2AB2.4B3DB4.2BA.2BAB4.B.B4.3A$7.A.AB3.4BD4BA4B2.2B3.A.B3.5A.A$7.A6.2B3D3BA3BAB2.2BA3.A2B.A6.2A3.2A$6.2A7.8BA4B.3B3.A.2BA3.A.3A4.2A$15.7B3.2BA3BAB4.3BA.A2.2A$14.9B2.A.A.2BABA2B2.2B$15.9B6.6B$15.9B7.5B$15.8B7.6B$14.10B.B5.5B$13.10B.2BA6.2B$12.13BA.A$13.6BD4B.BA$14.4B3D3B$15.3BD5B$15.8B$14.9B$12.11B$12.10B$11.12B$10.14B$10.17B$11.15B2A$11.15B2A$10.17B$7.16B$6.16B$6.16B$5.16B$4.20B$4.20B$5.20B$4.22B$2.24B$25B$2BC13B.10B$2BCBC4B.7B2.2B4.2A$2B3C4B2.3B.B4.B4.A$4BC4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A$8B4.BA2.A4.A6.A$B12.3A5.A.A$22.2A$13.3A$13.A2.A$15.2A!
The twin bees shuttle also requires the RF28B to be messy.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

User avatar
yujh
Posts: 1909
Joined: February 27th, 2020, 11:23 pm
Location: CHINA

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by yujh » October 30th, 2020, 5:41 am

MathAndCode wrote:
October 29th, 2020, 9:02 pm
Sphenocorona wrote:
October 29th, 2020, 8:26 pm
Here's one that works
Thank you. I definitely would not have thought of placing a tub there.
So now we have HLx111R, an intentionally messy RF28B, a dependent p46 BFx1H, then an Fx77. Of course, the right V-sparker would allow us to use a normal RF28B instead of an intentionally messy one (which is why I treat the BFx1H as a separate conduit), but Tanner's p46 is the only V-sparker that I've tried so far that works. However, I believe that wwei23 has been looking for more V-sparkers lately, so maybe that will change soon.



Edit: I found a new V-sparker, but unfortunately, not a new period.

Code: Select all

snip
The twin bees shuttle also requires the RF28B to be messy.
No it’s well known.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the Periodic Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » October 30th, 2020, 8:56 am

yujh wrote:
October 30th, 2020, 5:41 am
No it’s well known.
I think MathAndCode meant he found another known V-sparker that could support the conduit.

Post Reply