Catalyst Discussion Thread

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 17th, 2015, 5:58 am

dvgrn wrote:Maybe it would work to refactor slightly so that each new soup adds its statistics to any previous results? Then you can just keep running for some reasonable number of hours, instead of a specific number of soups.
Good idea. That wouldn't take toooo much time, but I think I spent more than enough time for this, so I'm planning to take a break on writing code.

Reran the search with 100 soups. Unfortunately for me, quite some portion of the search consists of catalysts perturbing a free Herschel, like these: (I merged two reactions from the same soup to make the latter.)

Code: Select all

x = 153, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
8bo4bo2b2o$8b2o2bo3bo$9b3obo$10bob3o$8bo2bo2b2o$9b3o2b4o$8b2o2b3ob2o
109bo4b3obo$10bob2o88b2o23bo5bob2o$8b3o2bo3bo83bo2bob2o20bob2obo2bo$
10b3o3b2o84bobobo20b3o3bo2bo$99b4obo3bo20b3o4bo$99bo3bob4o22b2o2bo$
101bobobo22bob3o2b2o$100b2obo2bo20bo2bobob2o$104b2o23bobob4o$129bo2bo
18$5b2o$b2obo2bo$2bobobo$o3bob4o138b2o$4obo3bo138bo2bo$3bobobo138bobob
2o$2bo2bob2o136bob2o$3b2o140bo3b3o$146b3o3bo$149b2obo$146b2obobo$146bo
2bo$148b2o!
Which would be closer to 'natural', but does not fit my specific needs. As I said before, if one's going to find Herschel perturbations, Bellman would do a better job. I'm returning to my old condition; reacts from gen 20 to 50 or so. I'll post the results, and post the current source if one needs it.

EDIT: The results. Please note that free Herschels did occur pretty much. Tell me if you would like the pattern files.

Code: Select all

eater: 96.71
block: 16.4
eater2: 7.64
eater3: 3.8
boat: 3.45
BTS: 3.05
tub: 2.89
ship_eater: 2.13
drifter: 2.02
bookend_on_pedestal: 2.0
block_eater: 1.6
hook_with_tail: 1.52
eater4: 1.49
twit: 1.48
table_on_long_pedestal: 1.41
drifter_variant: 1.39
dual_eater: 1.36
transp_hive: 1.27
hive_siamese_table_on_eater: 1.23
eater_with_bookend: 0.99
long_hook_with_tail: 0.98
long_hook: 0.98
gourmet: 0.98
eater_table: 0.9
kazyan: 0.86
rock_eater2: 0.85
pi_splitter: 0.83
transp_block: 0.82
blinker_eater: 0.79
pierce: 0.78
ship_eater_variant: 0.69
boat_eater: 0.69
drifty_dual_eater: 0.61
eater_tub_with_hook: 0.58
table_table: 0.57
two_blocks: 0.47
table: 0.45
lizard: 0.43
transp_loaf: 0.4
reflector_hook: 0.38
mikep: 0.35
eater_with_pedestal: 0.35
table_siamese_carrier_on_boat: 0.34
eater_hook_with_tail: 0.33
hook_with_long_leg_on_sth: 0.32
sokwe: 0.31
eater_on_dock: 0.31
regenerative_loop: 0.29
drifter_variant_long: 0.29
transp_ship: 0.25
ship: 0.23
h_to_teardrop: 0.2
moose_antlers-1: 0.19
modified_long_hook_and_block: 0.19
eater_inductor_hook_with_tail: 0.19
bookend: 0.19
dead_spark_coil: 0.17
eater3_skeleton: 0.15
mirrored_boat: 0.13
edgy_b_to_g: 0.13
hive_with_tail: 0.12
hive_siamese_table_on_boat: 0.11
transp_boat: 0.1
century_eater: 0.1
table_table+1: 0.09
long_dock: 0.09
transp_tub: 0.08
moose_antlers: 0.07
block_supplement: 0.06
beehive_with_long_leg: 0.06
hurricane: 0.04
drifty_twit: 0.04
hive-tail-eater#2: 0.03
hive-tail-eater#1: 0.03
transp_pond: 0.02
boat_with_tail: 0.02
simeks: 0.01
long_hook_and_block: 0.01
eater_misc: 0.01

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gmc_nxtman
Posts: 1150
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by gmc_nxtman » November 17th, 2015, 9:12 pm

EDIT: This post is too long :|

What about eater 4 and eater 5?

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
3.E5.2A$4.E5.A$4.E5.A.2A$E3.E4.2A2.A$.3E2.C4.2A$6.2CACA15.E.2E$4.2C4.
A16.2E$5.C2.2A$5.A.A14.2A3.C$A2.A.C.A14.A3.C.A$4A.2A16.A3.2A$4.A19.A$
2.A.A17.A.5A$2.2A17.A.A4.A$21.A.A2.A$22.A3.2A!
Here is a BTS variant which is different from many of the others, because the "BT" part isn't even present:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 6, rule = LifeHistory
3.A.2A$.3A.A$A4.A.A$2A3.2A.A$8.A$8.2A!
And another catalyst, which I have no idea what to call:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 10, rule = LifeHistory
3.A.2A.2A$.3A.A3.A$A5.2A$.A.2A.A.4A$2A.AC.A.C2.A$7.C2$5.3E$5.E2.E$4.E
!
Here are some rock catalysts that probably aren't in the collection:

Code: Select all

x = 61, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
28bo13bo$bo3bo7bo15b3o7bob2o$obobobo6b2o15bo8b3o13bo$bo3bo7bo42b2ob2o$
16bo12bobo24bo3bo$2b3o8bobobo11b2obo7bob2o15bo$b2ob2o7b2o2bo14bo7b2o2b
o11bobo$17b2o13b2o9b2o11b2o!
The first is probably not in the collection, and the name 'bi-tub' could be used. The second is a long hook with tail, and might be in the collection. One thing to note about this catalysis is that in some places, a python can be used:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2o$o$3b2o$obobo$2o!
However, a small dot spark that is sometimes produced would destroy a python, but leave a long hook with tail unaffected.
The third is the most common catalysis of hook with tail.
The fourth is a shillelagh. It is replacable by an eleven-loop, which may provide more clearance:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
3bo9bo$ob2o6bob2o$3o7b3o3$bob2o6bob2o$b2o2bo5b2o2bo$4b2o8bo$11b3o$11bo
!
The last is a canoe, although I'm not sure that anything can place that 'L' shape in between the ends of the canoe.

I also think that Catalyst B1 and the snark catalyst should be in the collection.

Finally, I propose naming for this catalyst:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
.A.C.C.A$A.2A.2A.A$A3.A3.A$.2A.A.2A$3.A.A$3.A.A$4.A!
as 'Elk'.

User avatar
Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 18th, 2015, 1:54 am

What about eater 4 and eater 5?
I added the eater4 myself, and added the eater5 in the form if the twit eater. I'll see if that form is better, but keep in mind that even if I add that in the search, all catalysis that a twit can do will be filtered.
Here is a BTS variant which is different from many of the others, because the "BT" part isn't even present:
Most of the BTS catalysis don't work here because it doesn't have the "snake" inducting part. If you are talking about the rock catalysis, you can see that from the long hook with tail dimer.
And another catalyst, which I have no idea what to call:
I also have no idea what to call it, but I'm pretty sure I haven't added that before. Next time it will show up as something like 'b_to_blinker'.


I have the hook with tail and long hook with tail, but not the others. It seems worthwhile to add them if they are common, because they're pretty small.


Edit: what's the catalyst B1? And can a snark work independently without the help of others?
The name Elk seems like a good idea.

User avatar
Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 18th, 2015, 6:40 am

Here's the long list of catalysts and their names, which I tried to order with increasing complexity. (Slow-salvo construction cost if one seems constructible, and then size for hopeless ones.)
If any of you, especially slow-salvo masters, see something misordered, please let me know.

Code: Select all

x = 193, y = 1674, rule = LifeHistory
2C18.D6.2D15.D$AC18.D7.D15.D$20.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.D2.D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D
5.D.D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.3D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D2.D$20.4D4.2D3.3D3.
4D.D3.D14$AC18.D6.2D15.D36.2D$2C18.D7.D15.D37.D29.D$20.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.
D2.D9.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D4.D4.3D3.D.D3.3D2.4D2.5D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D.D
9.D5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D.D.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.
3D10.3D2.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D.D.D.5D.D3.D3.D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D
2.D12.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D5.D3.D.D5.D3.D3.D$20.4D4.2D3.3D3.4D.D3.D.
5D.4D3.4D.4D2.4D4.2D3.4D.D3.D2.4D.D3.D4.2D$68.D5.D$68.D5.D12$AC42.D6.
2D15.D$2C20.D21.D7.D15.D$20.5D.D3.D2.3D8.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.D2.D3.4D$22.D
3.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D.D3.D$.2C19.D3.D.D.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D
3.D.D5.3D4.3D$.CA19.D3.2D.2D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D2.D6.D$23.2D.D3.
D2.3D2.5D.4D4.2D3.3D3.4D.D3.D.4D14$2C60.D6.2D15.D$2C20.D39.D7.D15.D$
20.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D8.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.D2.D$22.D3.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D
5.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D
3.D.D5.3D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D2.D$23.2D.D6.
4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D.4D4.2D3.3D3.4D.D3.D$50.D$50.D12$.2C59.D$C2.C18.D
39.D7.D$.2C17.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D8.D.2D8.D3.D2.3D$22.D3.2D2.D.D3.D.
D3.D.D5.D3.D7.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D3.D7.D3.D
3.D3.D3.D.5D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D4.D.D2.D$23.2D.D6.4D.
D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D.D3.D3.2D4.D4.4D$50.D$50.D12$.2C60.2D17.2D$C2.C18.D41.
D16.D2.D$C.C17.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D10.D4.3D3.4D2.D$.C20.D3.2D2.D.D3.
D.D3.D.D5.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D.3D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D3.D9.D3.D3.D
.D3.D2.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D2.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D
.4D2.4D2.5D3.2D3.3D3.4D2.D$50.D$50.D12$.C18.D$C.C17.D19.D$.CA17.4D3.
3D3.4D.5D$20.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$20.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$20.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D
3.D$20.4D3.3D3.4D4.2D14$.C60.D$C.C19.D39.D19.D$.2C17.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.
4D.4D8.4D3.3D3.4D.5D$22.D3.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D
$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.
D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D.4D3.3D3.4D4.2D$
50.D$50.D12$2C24.D$C.C23.D7.D$.CA18.4D.D.2D8.4D$20.D5.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D$
21.3D2.D3.D3.D3.D3.D$24.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D$20.4D2.D3.D3.2D2.4D$38.D$38.D
12$2C66.D$C.C19.D45.D7.D$.2C17.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D9.4D.D.2D8.4D$22.
D3.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D7.D5.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D
2.D3.D8.3D2.D3.D3.D3.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D11.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.
D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D.4D2.D3.D3.2D2.4D$50.D29.D$50.D29.D12$.A
30.D$A.C19.D9.D$.C18.5D.D3.D.4D$22.D3.D3.D.D3.D$22.D3.D3.D.D3.D$22.D
3.D3.D.D3.D$23.2D2.4D.4D14$.C72.D$C.C19.D41.D9.D$.C18.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D
3.4D.4D8.5D.D3.D.4D$22.D3.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D$22.D
3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D9.D
3.D3.D.D3.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D4.2D2.4D.4D$50.D$50.D12$.2C81.
D$C2.C18.D61.D$C2.C16.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D8.4D3.3D2.4D3.4D$.2C19.D3.
2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.
D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.
D3.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D.4D3.3D2.D3.D2.4D$50.D11.D$50.D11.D
12$.C3.C60.D7.D$C.A.A.C21.D37.D7.D19.D$.2A.2A15.D.D8.D.2D2.D.2D3.3D2.
D.2D3.3D3.4D7.4D3.3D3.4D.5D$20.D.D.D3.D3.2D2.D.2D2.D.D3.D.2D2.D.D3.D.
D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$.2A.2A14.D.D.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.D.D5.5D.D3.D7.D3.
D.D3.D.D3.D3.D$C.A.A.C13.D3.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.D.D5.D5.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D
3.D3.D$.C3.C14.D3.D3.2D2.D5.D6.3D2.D6.4D2.4D.5D.4D3.3D3.4D4.2D14$.C3.
C14.D29.D$A.A.A.A13.D7.D11.D9.D$.C3.C14.4D14.5D.D3.D.4D$20.D3.D3.D11.
D3.D3.D.D3.D$20.D3.D3.D11.D3.D3.D.D3.D$20.D3.D3.D11.D3.D3.D.D3.D$20.
4D4.2D2.5D4.2D2.4D.4D14$CA$A33.D$.3A17.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D$3.A16.D3.D
.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D$20.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D$20.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D$21.4D2.
4D4.2D2.4D.D14$A.2A22.D12.2D4.2D10.2D15.D$2A2.A21.D7.D5.D5.D11.D15.D$
3.2A16.4D.D.2D10.D5.D4.3D4.D4.4D2.3D2.D.2D$20.D5.2D2.D3.D5.D5.D3.D3.D
3.D3.D3.D.D3.D.2D2.D$21.3D2.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.5D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$24.D
.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.D7.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$20.4D2.D3.D3.2D4.2D4.2D3.4D3.2D
3.4D2.4D.D3.D$72.D$69.3D12$3.2A$4.A$3.A17.4D2.4D.4D3.3D3.3D$A.A17.D5.
D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$2A18.D5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.5D$20.D5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D$
21.4D2.4D.D3.D2.3D3.4D14$2C18.D6.2D15.D$2A2.CA14.D7.D15.D25.D$4.A.A
13.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.D2.D9.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D$6.A13.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D.D
9.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D$6.A.A11.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.3D9.5D.D3.D3.D3.
5D.D$7.AC2.2A7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D2.D8.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D$11.2C7.4D4.2D
3.3D3.4D.D3.D.5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D14$.C18.D$C.A2.CA13.D19.D23.D$2A3.A
.A12.4D3.3D3.4D.5D8.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D$7.A12.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D9.D3.D
.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D$7.A.A3.2A5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D9.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D$
8.AC2.A.C5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D9.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D$13.C6.4D3.3D3.4D4.2D.
5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D14$10.2A14.D$10.C.C13.D7.D29.D$11.2C8.4D.D.2D8.4D
9.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D$7.AC11.D5.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D
2.D$6.A.A12.3D2.D3.D3.D3.D3.D7.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D$6.A17.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D
7.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D$4.A.A13.4D2.D3.D3.2D2.4D2.5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D$4.C
A32.D$2C36.D$C.C$.2A10$2A.A16.D17.D29.D30.2D$.A.3A14.D17.D19.D5.D3.D
13.D11.D5.D$A5.A13.D.2D3.3D3.3D2.D2.D8.D3.D7.5D.D.2D8.5D2.4D9.D$.3A.A
14.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D.D9.D3.D3.D5.D3.2D2.D9.D3.D3.D3.D5.D$3.A.2A13.D3.
D.D3.D.D3.D.3D9.D.D.D3.D5.D3.D3.D9.D3.D3.D3.D5.D$20.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D
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Last edited by Scorbie on November 21st, 2015, 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
praosylen
Posts: 2443
Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
Location: Pembina University, Home of the Gliders
Contact:

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by praosylen » November 18th, 2015, 10:35 am

Scorbie wrote:Tell me if you would like the pattern files.
I am very interested to see the files, especially the bookend-on-pedestal, the transp_hive (which for some reason seems to be more common than transp_block), and the eater_3_skeleton.
former username: A for Awesome
praosylen#5847 (Discord)

The only decision I made was made
of flowers, to jump universes to one of springtime in
a land of former winter, where no invisible walls stood,
or could stand for more than a few hours at most...

User avatar
Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 18th, 2015, 3:06 pm

@A_for_awesome Will upload to my google drive soon. I really wish the forums increase the upload size limit so that I can upload it here.
EDIT: Here's the link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B057ay ... sp=sharing

The transparent hive was consistently more common than the block in searches -- which kinda intrigued me, too.

And the eater3 skeleton catalyst is really interesting to watch, although a bit uncommon. Sometimes the active region throws off a loaf to make it an eater3.

By the way, there was a slight bug on the script that affects only the last run. If a catalyst had no working reactions, the script erroneously reports that the count is the same as the count of the previous catalyst.


It gradually takes more and more time to finish the search. Maybe it's time to trim off catalysts that don't occur too often.

User avatar
Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 19th, 2015, 9:51 am

Here's the latest census, with generations 20 ~ 60:
EDIT: Dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5zuuhcwf0rvy ... 5.zip?dl=0

Code: Select all

x = 609, y = 194, rule = LifeHistory
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2D7.D2.2D.D2.2D5.D$20.D.D.D8.3D5.D2.D2.D23.3A2.2A.C10.D.D.D10.D3.3D5.
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.D.D2.3D4.D23.C4.3A12.D.D.D7.D.D.D4.D3.3D25.A16.D.D.D7.D.D.D3.D5.2D
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3D3.3D2.D25.2A19.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D25.A.A15.3D4.D4.3D2.5D2.3D27.C15.3D
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136.CA.A.2A$75.C135.3A.C.A.A274.A.2A$210.A3.A.C.A2.A272.A$210.2A2.A.A
.A.2A270.A.A$215.2A.A273.2A$218.A$218.2A!
And IRK, you can see that I made a mistake with the state 3 cells in the long hook with tail and block. (frequency 0.002) Will remove everything below 0.020 except for that.
Anyway, pretty interesting. The Elk frequency is very small, and the transparent hive frequency is way higher than those of the transparent block. (That's pretty strange...)
You may notice that there is another block. (with frequency 0.015) That's the benefit of using these four orientation of blocks instead of these two:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
AC.CA.2C.2C$2C.2C.CA.AC4$AC.2C$2C.CA!
Note that both contains the typical block catalysis; I was just curious if there are a lot of "dangling block reactions" where three cells get damaged. Pretty rare, I guess.

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praosylen
Posts: 2443
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by praosylen » November 19th, 2015, 1:48 pm

I'm sorry, but I don't have a Dropbox account, so I can't access the files.

Edit: Got it!

Edit 2: Okay, this is now my new favorite catalysis:

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
3bo$bo3bo$o3bo$b3o8$2o$2o!
Last edited by praosylen on November 19th, 2015, 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
former username: A for Awesome
praosylen#5847 (Discord)

The only decision I made was made
of flowers, to jump universes to one of springtime in
a land of former winter, where no invisible walls stood,
or could stand for more than a few hours at most...

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dvgrn
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by dvgrn » November 19th, 2015, 1:58 pm

A for awesome wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't have a Dropbox account, so I can't access the files.
That's strange. I signed up for a free Dropbox account a while back, so your mileage may vary. But when I tried the link just now, I didn't have to log in -- there was a "No thanks, continue to view" option, and then the download worked fine.

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Scorbie
Posts: 1692
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 19th, 2015, 3:08 pm

@A for awesome @dvgrn
I just thought to send A for awesome an email from now on, but I see that others may be watching. Okay. Dropbox is much simpler and can be accessed from the command line (without opening the slow web browser in my computer and waiting for my browser to react) So if you can see the files as dvgrn said, I'll just use dropbox from now on.

@dvgrn Thanks for your subscription. Searches from now on are not likely to be natural but I can upload the source (when I set ot to react from gen 100 to 200) so that others interested can tweak it. One direction to your ideal search would be setting catalysts as SLs up to 10 or 11 bits and making it all or almost transparent. The latter would lag the search significantly, though, if you make it transparent. Or one should hack CatForce for that matter.

And now I figured out why those hives were significantly common. It's because the hives can act as a "rock tub". Well morally it should have been filtered, but I ordered it with ascending order of difficulty of slow-salvo construction, and hives are cheaper than blocks. (Right?) That's why it wasn't filtered. I should probably swap those two in the next run.

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Extrementhusiast
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Location: USA

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Extrementhusiast » November 19th, 2015, 4:50 pm

Well, for the transparent ship, there was literally one entry (ninth row, first column) that wasn't the usual half traffic light eater:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2o3bobobo2b2o$obo6b2o2bobo$2o8bobo$13b3o$6b3o2bo2b2o$10b2o$6bo2bob3ob
o$10bo4bo$7bo2b2obo$8b5obo!
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

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Scorbie
Posts: 1692
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 19th, 2015, 7:05 pm

@ExtremeEnthusiast Thanks for the info. Well it would need additional tweaks to enable selective filtering, but in this case the remaining transparent ship catalysis is rare enough to just ignore.

Other news: After trimming frequency<0.02, there are still a handful of catalysts, so I'm gonna trim catalysts whose frequency is under 0.05.

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praosylen
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by praosylen » November 20th, 2015, 9:00 pm

It appears the drifty_twit catalyst can also act as a rock:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
o3bo4bo$2ob2o2b3o$bo2bo2b2o$o3bo4bo$2o2b2o2bo$bob3ob3o$bo3b5o$2b2obo$b
2o2bobo$2bo5b2o3$9b2o$8bobo$8bo$5b2obo$6bobob2o$4bobobobo$4b2o2bobo$8b
obobo$9b2ob3o$15bo$14b2o!
Is there any filtering mechanism that could remove this, and all 9 variants that showed up?

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$6bobo$8bo$8b2o2$8b4o$7bo4bo$7b2o2b2o4$2bob3o$ob3o2bobo$bo2bob2o$b
o2bo2b2o$5b2o$bob4o2bo$obob4obo$o4b3o$bo4bo$b2o3bo!
former username: A for Awesome
praosylen#5847 (Discord)

The only decision I made was made
of flowers, to jump universes to one of springtime in
a land of former winter, where no invisible walls stood,
or could stand for more than a few hours at most...

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Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 20th, 2015, 9:28 pm

A for awesome wrote:Is there any filtering mechanism that could remove this, and all 9 variants that showed up?
Hmm... I can't think of a cheap and fast way... I just hope that they're rare enough.

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Scorbie
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 21st, 2015, 1:54 am

Newest results with frequency > 0.02
(Edit: something seems to be terribly wrong with the transparent loaf. I'll take a look.
EDIT2: Urgh, it's that problematic rock tub again... Stupid me...)

Code: Select all

x = 466, y = 192, rule = LifeHistory
422.2C5.2C$19.D5.D10.3D3.3D3.3D24.2C11.3D11.D5.D3.3D32.A10.3D9.3D4.D
4.3D43.3D10.D6.D5.D29.2A3.C8.3D9.3D3.3D3.3D31.2A10.3D9.3D5.D3.3D27.A.
A3.A.A7.3D9.3D3.3D2.5D$18.2D4.2D9.D3.D.D5.D3.D23.A.A9.D3.D9.2D4.2D2.D
3.D28.A.A.A8.D3.D7.D3.D2.2D3.D3.D27.CA3.AC7.D3.D8.2D5.2D4.2D29.A3.C.A
6.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D27.2C2.A9.D3.D7.D3.D3.2D2.D3.D27.A2.C2.A7.D3.D
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29.A.2C8.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$2C16.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D29.2C.3A8.3D4.D3.
5D2.3D3.3D43.3D4.D4.3D3.3D2.5D42.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D43.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.
3D26.2A2.A12.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D$C.C71.2C.A273.A.A.A$.2A349.2A.AC11$75.
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35.2C7.3D9.3D3.3D3.3D33.C9.3D9.3D2.5D2.3D26.A16.3D9.3D3.3D3.3D$17.D3.
D7.D5.D6.2D29.A.A2.A8.D3.D7.D3.D.D9.D31.A.A7.D3.D8.2D3.D3.D2.2D33.A2.
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.D3.D.D3.D$6.A10.D2.2D7.D5.D7.D27.3A2.2A.C7.D2.2D11.D.D8.D29.CA.A.2A
6.D2.2D9.D3.D3.D3.D32.A.AC7.D2.2D7.D2.2D.D3.D.D32.A.2A.A.2A4.D2.2D7.D
2.2D.D5.D3.D28.A3.2A7.D2.2D7.D2.2D5.D.D3.D$5.A.C9.D.D.D8.3D2.4D4.D26.
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7.2D2.D5.D.D3.D33.A.2A4.2D2.D7.2D2.D3.D7.D$17.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D3.D29.A.
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3.D25.AC.A.A.A8.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D30.CA.A.A5.D3.D7.D3.D2.D8.D$18.3D
4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D29.C.C11.3D4.D3.5D2.3D2.D31.A.A12.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D27.
2C14.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D30.C12.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D30.C.A.A.A6.3D4.D4.3D2.
5D2.3D$75.C66.2A.2A208.2C3.A11$11.2A342.C$6.2C.C2.A205.2A134.A.C$5.C.
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8.3D9.3D3.3D3.3D43.3D9.3D2.5D2.3D29.A.C11.3D9.3D3.3D2.5D$5.A.C9.D3.D
7.D5.D3.D2.2D28.A.C.A.2A.A5.D3.D7.D3.D.D6.2D43.D3.D8.2D3.D5.D31.C2.2A
9.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D41.D3.D7.D3.D.D5.D3.D29.A3.C7.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D5.
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30.A.A.A10.D2.2D7.D2.2D.D3.D5.D30.C10.D2.2D7.D2.2D.D9.D30.4A7.D2.2D7.
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2C9.D.D.D9.D3.4D3.3D27.2A2.A2.2A6.D.D.D7.D.D.D2.4D3.2D30.C.C9.D.D.D7.
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2.D9.D7.D3.D32.2C9.2D2.D9.D3.D3.D5.D30.A.A.A6.2D2.D7.2D2.D5.D5.D30.C
10.2D2.D7.2D2.D5.D3.D32.4A7.2D2.D7.2D2.D3.D4.D$5.A.2A8.D3.D7.D3.D2.D
6.D30.2A.A9.D3.D8.D4.D3.D3.D43.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D29.2A2.C7.D3.D7.D3.D
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4.3D2.5D2.3D29.A.2A10.3D4.D3.5D2.3D3.3D43.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D28.A2.A11.
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207.2A139.A.C$.A.A.2A348.C$.2A7$79.2A$79.2C2$9.2C$7.C2.A7.3D8.5D2.3D
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3D9.3D2.5D2.3D43.3D9.3D3.3D2.5D$7.3A7.D3.D7.D5.D3.D.D3.D31.A.C7.D3.D
7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D29.A.A.A7.D3.D8.2D3.D6.2D34.C8.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D
27.A2.C2.A7.D3.D7.D3.D.D5.D3.D29.2C10.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D$4.C12.D2.2D7.
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2D7.D2.2D.D3.D.D3.D28.5A8.D2.2D7.D2.2D.D9.D28.A2.A9.D2.2D7.D2.2D5.D.D
$4.6A7.D.D.D8.3D5.D2.D.D.D29.3A9.D.D.D10.D5.D4.2D27.A7.A6.D.D.D9.D3.
4D4.D32.A.A8.D.D.D7.D.D.D2.3D3.3D42.D.D.D7.D.D.D2.3D5.D30.2A.A8.D.D.D
7.D.D.D4.D3.3D$9.C7.2D2.D11.D3.D3.2D2.D28.A12.2D2.D9.D5.D7.D26.A.2A.
3A7.2D2.D9.D3.D3.D3.D30.3A.A.A6.2D2.D7.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D28.5A8.2D2.D7.
2D2.D5.D3.D34.A8.2D2.D7.2D2.D3.D7.D$4.3A10.D3.D7.D3.D2.D4.D3.D27.C.A
11.D3.D8.D5.D4.D3.D27.A.A.A9.D3.D9.D3.D3.D3.D29.A5.2A6.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.
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3.2C2$72.2C$72.2A!
Ran with these cats:

Code: Select all

x = 193, y = 1314, rule = LifeHistory
2C18.D6.2D15.D$AC18.D7.D15.D$20.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.D2.D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D
5.D.D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.3D$20.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D2.D$20.4D4.2D3.3D3.
4D.D3.D14$AC42.D6.2D15.D$2C20.D21.D7.D15.D$20.5D.D3.D2.3D8.4D4.D4.3D
3.4D.D2.D3.4D$22.D3.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D.D3.D$.2C19.D3.D.D.D
.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.3D4.3D$.CA19.D3.2D.2D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.
D2.D6.D$23.2D.D3.D2.3D2.5D.4D4.2D3.3D3.4D.D3.D.4D14$2C60.D6.2D15.D$2C
20.D39.D7.D15.D$20.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D8.4D4.D4.3D3.4D.D2.D$22.D3.2D
2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.D.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D
3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D5.3D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D
5.D2.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D.4D4.2D3.3D3.4D.D3.D$50.D$50.D12$.
2C60.2D17.2D$C2.C18.D41.D16.D2.D$C.C17.5D.D.2D3.4D.4D3.4D.4D10.D4.3D
3.4D2.D$.C20.D3.2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D.3D$22.D3.D5.D3.
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.D3.D2.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D3.2D3.3D3.4D2.D$50.D$50.D12$.C18.
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22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D5.D.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D$23.2D.D6.4D.D3.D.4D2.4D2.5D
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.D3.D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D3.D2.3D2.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.5D$22.D3.D5.D3.D.D
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3.D.2D2.D$7.A.A3.2A5.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D9.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D$8.AC2.A.C5.D
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3.D3.D5.D$4.A.A13.4D2.D3.D3.2D2.4D2.5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D$4.CA32.D$2C
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3.D.5D4.2D2.4D3.2D4.2D14$3.A17.2D27.D17.D29.D30.2D$A.A.A17.D27.D17.D
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4.2D$2.A39.D$39.3D12$7.2A$7.2C13.D11.D5.D$20.5D.D3.D7.5D$22.D3.D3.D3.
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3.D5.D12.D.D2.D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D.D3.D3.D11.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$3.C.A.C3.A
9.4D.D7.2D3.D7.2D2.4D.D5.5D3.D4.4D.D7.2D3.4D.D3.D4.2D.5D3.2D3.3D2.D3.
D2.4D$3.A.C.C.2A127.D$.3A.C.A.A125.3D$A3.A.C.A2.A$2A2.A.A.A.2A$5.2A.A
$8.A$8.2A!

User avatar
Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 22nd, 2015, 4:29 am

Here are the spartan and semispartan catalysts I use right now:

Code: Select all

# Spartan catalyst file by Scorbie
# I included all spartan catalysts,
# except the two blocks combo and the Boat + Eater combo.

##Block
2C$AC!
AC$2C!
CA$2C!
2C$CA!

##Tub
.A$A.C$.C!
.C$C.A$.A!

##Boat
.C$C.C$.CA!
.C$C.C$AC!
AC$C.C$.C!
.CA$C.C$.C!

##Ship
2C$C.C$.CA!
.2C$C.C$AC!
AC$C.C$.2C!
.CA$C.C$2C!

##Transp. Block
2C$2C!

##Transp. Beehive
.2C$C2.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Loaf
.2C$C2.C$C.C$.C!
.2C$C2.C$.C.C$2.C!
2.C$.C.C$C2.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$C2.C$.2C!

##Transp. Boat
.C$C.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$2C!
2C$C.C$.C!
.2C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Ship
2C$C.C$.2C!
.2C$C.C$2C!

##Transp. Tub
.C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Pond
.2C$C2.C$C2.C$.2C!

##Eater 1
CA$A$.3A$3.A!
2.AC$.A.A$.A$2A!
A$3A$3.A$2.AC!
2.2A$2.A$A.A$CA!
CA$A.A$2.A$2.2A!
2.AC$3.A$3A$A!
2A$.A$.A.A$2.AC!
3.A$.3A$A$CA!

##Block + Eater
2C$2A2.CA$4.A.A$6.A$2A4.2A$.A$.A.A$2.AC2.2A$6.2C!
6.2C$2.AC2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A4.2A$6.A$4.A.A$2A2.CA$2C!
CA2.A$CA2.3A$7.A$6.AC$.CA$.A$2.3A2.AC$4.A2.AC!
4.A2.AC$2.3A2.AC$.A$.CA$6.AC$7.A$CA2.3A$CA2.A!

##Ship + Eater
10.2A$10.C.C$11.2C$7.AC$6.A.A$6.A$4.A.A$4.CA$2C$C.C$.2A!
.2A$C.C$2C$4.CA$4.A.A$6.A$6.A.A$7.AC$11.2C$10.C.C$10.2A!
.2C$A.C$AC$$3.CA$3.A$4.3A$7.A$6.AC$$9.CA$8.C.A$8.2C!
8.2C$8.C.A$9.CA$$6.AC$7.A$4.3A$3.A$3.CA$$AC$A.C$.2C!

Code: Select all

# Semispartan catalysts, with relative frequency > 0.1

##Block
2C$AC!
CA$2C!

##Tub
.A$A.C$.C!
.C$C.A$.A!

##Boat
.C$C.C$.CA!
.C$C.C$AC!
AC$C.C$.C!
.CA$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Block
2C$2C!

##Transp. Beehive
.2C$C2.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$C.C$.C!

##Transp. Loaf
.2C$C2.C$C.C$.C!
.2C$C2.C$.C.C$2.C!
2.C$.C.C$C2.C$.2C!
.C$C.C$C2.C$.2C!

##Transp. Ship
.2C$C.C$2C!
2C$C.C$.2C!

##Eater 1
CA$A$.3A$3.A!
2.AC$.A.A$.A$2A!
A$3A$3.A$2.AC!
2.2A$2.A$A.A$CA!
CA$A.A$2.A$2.2A!
2.AC$3.A$3A$A!
2A$.A$.A.A$2.AC!
3.A$.3A$A$CA!

##Block + Eater
2C$2A2.CA$4.A.A$6.A$2A4.2A$.A$.A.A$2.AC2.2A$6.2C!
6.2C$2.AC2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A4.2A$6.A$4.A.A$2A2.CA$2C!
CA2.A$CA2.3A$7.A$6.AC$.CA$.A$2.3A2.AC$4.A2.AC!
4.A2.AC$2.3A2.AC$.A$.CA$6.AC$7.A$CA2.3A$CA2.A!

##Ship + Eater
10.2A$10.C.C$11.2C$7.AC$6.A.A$6.A$4.A.A$4.CA$2C$C.C$.2A!
.2A$C.C$2C$4.CA$4.A.A$6.A$6.A.A$7.AC$11.2C$10.C.C$10.2A!
.2C$A.C$AC$$3.CA$3.A$4.3A$7.A$6.AC$$9.CA$8.C.A$8.2C!
8.2C$8.C.A$9.CA$$6.AC$7.A$4.3A$3.A$3.CA$$AC$A.C$.2C!

##Hook with tail
2A.A$.A.3A$A5.A$.3A.A$3.A.2A!
2.A.A$.A.2A$.A$2A.2A$3.A$2A.A$A.A!

##Long hook with tail
3.A$A.A.A$2A2.A$4.2A$2A$.A2.2A$.A.A.A$2.A!
2.A$.A.A.A$.A2.2A$2A$4.2A$2A2.A$A.A.A$3.A!
.2A.A$2.A.3A$.A5.A$A5.A$.3A.A$3.A.2A!
3.A.2A$.3A.A$A5.A$.A5.A$2.A.3A$.2A.A!

##Tub with tail eater
2C$AC3.C$4.C.A$5.A.A$7.A$7.2A!
7.2A$7.A$5.A.A$4.C.A$AC3.C$2C!
7.2C$3.C3.CA$2.A.C$.A.A$.A$2A!
2A$.A$.A.A$2.A.C$3.C3.CA$7.2C!
CA$2C3$2.C$.C.A$2.A$3.3A$5.A!
4.AC$4.2C3$3.C$2.A.C$3.A$3A$A!
5.A$3.3A$2.A$.C.A$2.C3$2C$CA!
A$3A$3.A$2.A.C$3.C3$4.2C$4.AC!

##Long Hooks
CA3.AC$C.A.A.C$2.A.A$2.A.A$.CA.AC!
.CA.AC$2.A.A$2.A.A$C.A.A.C$CA3.AC!
2C$A3.C$.4A2$.4A$A3.C$2C!
3.2C$C3.A$4A2$4A$C3.A$3.2C!

##Bookend on pedestal
6.2C$4.C2.A$4.3A$.C$.6A$6.C$.3A$A2.C$2C!
2C$A2.C$.3A$6.C$.6A$.C$4.3A$4.C2.A$6.2C!
7.AC$3.CA.A.C$4.A.A$4.A.AC$.CA.A$2.A.A$C.A.AC$CA!
CA$C.A.AC$2.A.A$.CA.A$4.A.AC$4.A.A$3.CA.A.C$7.AC!

##Table on long pedestal
C2.C$4A$6.C$7A$C$3.4A$3.C2.C!
3.C2.C$3.4A$C$7A$6.C$4A$C2.C!
CA.AC$.A.A$.A.A$CA.A.AC$3.A.A$3.A.A$2.CA.AC!
2.CA.AC$3.A.A$3.A.A$CA.A.AC$.A.A$.A.A$CA.AC!

##Dual Eater
3.2C$3.A.A$.A.A.3A$A.2A4.A$A4.2A.A$.3A.A.A$3.A.A$4.2C!
4.2C$3.A.A$.3A.A.A$A4.2A.A$A.2A4.A$.A.A.3A$3.A.A$3.2C!
3.2A$2.A2.A$3.A.A$C3A.2A$C6.C$.2A.3AC$2.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!
3.2A$2.A2.A$2.A.A$.2A.3AC$C6.C$C3A.2A$3.A.A$2.A2.A$3.2A!
Not sure if those pedestal families are cheap enough to add to the semispartan family... But they're pretty effective, so I hope they would make new results.
Slow salvo experts, is building these ridiculous or can it be okay if the results are small and fast enough?

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
9b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$4o6b3o$6bo8bo$2b5o5b4o$2bo9bo$4bo8bo$3b2o7b2o!

chris_c
Posts: 966
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by chris_c » November 22nd, 2015, 8:58 am

Scorbie wrote:Is building these ridiculous or can it be okay if the results are small and fast enough?
I haven't checked any soups so I can't comment precisely on constructability but here is a list of Catagolue frequencies found with the help of codeholic's census-matcher:

Code: Select all

Dual-eater
==========
xs14_354cgs26 33875
xs13_31e86246 7815
xs15_0ok213zca23 961
xs14_3loz32ac 714
xs15_3lkczc96 636

Total: 44001

Bookend-on-pedestal
===================
xs17_o8b96zx3156 4281
xs17_raaczx3156 243
xs22_mlligoz1w62ac 184
xs19_0gg2uge13z643 123
xs19_0caab8oz6513 99

Total: 4930

Table-on-pedestal
=================
xs17_8o1vg33z23 141
xs19_9f0v1oozw23 61
xs16_8o1vg4cz23 25
xs21_gj1u0uiz11074 25
xs21_069b8brz3113 24

Total: 276

Eater2
======
xs19_4aar0rbzx121 130
xs21_br0raicz01221 16
xs19_br0raa4z23 13
xs20_69ar0rbzx121 7
xs21_br0raicz0123 7

Total: 173

BTS
===
xs21_8e1lmz315a43 9
xs25_c97o3qicz3543 4
xs22_c97o3qicz311 3
xs20_32qb079cz321 2
xs22_9f0siicz3156 2

Total: 20

User avatar
gmc_nxtman
Posts: 1150
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 7:20 pm

Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by gmc_nxtman » November 22nd, 2015, 12:04 pm

I tried to symmetricalize as many of the catalysts as I could:

Code: Select all

x = 218, y = 212, rule = LifeHistory
CA$A33.D36.CA$.3A17.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D12.D10.A$3.A16.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D
3.D.2D2.D12.D10.3A$20.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D11.4D2.D12.A$20.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.
D16.D12.AC$21.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D15.D14$A.2A22.D12.2D4.2D10.2D15.D$2A2.A
21.D7.D5.D5.D11.D15.D$3.2A16.4D.D.2D10.D5.D4.3D4.D4.4D2.3D2.D.2D12.D
13.A.2A$20.D5.2D2.D3.D5.D5.D3.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D.2D2.D12.D12.2A2.A$
21.3D2.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.5D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D7.4D2.D9.2A3.2A$24.D.D3.D
3.D5.D5.D3.D7.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D12.D10.A2.2A$20.4D2.D3.D3.2D4.2D4.2D3.
4D3.2D3.4D2.4D.D3.D11.D12.2A.A$72.D$69.3D12$.2C17.D47.D30.2D17.2C$A2.
A16.D7.D29.D5.D3.D13.D11.D5.D11.D4.A2.A$.2A.A15.D.2D8.D3.D2.3D8.D3.D
7.5D.D.2D8.5D2.4D9.D12.D4.2A.A$4.A15.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D5.D
3.2D2.D9.D3.D3.D3.D5.D7.4D2.D6.A$4.2A14.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.5D7.D.D.D3.D5.D
3.D3.D9.D3.D3.D3.D5.D12.D7.A.2A$20.D3.D3.D4.D.D2.D11.2D.2D3.D5.D3.D3.
D9.D3.D3.D3.D5.D11.D9.A2.A$20.D3.D3.2D4.D4.4D.5D.D3.D3.2D5.2D.D3.D.5D
4.2D2.4D3.2D4.2D21.2C12$158.C$157.C.C$5.C62.D29.D11.D17.D27.A.A$4.C.C
27.D23.D9.D19.D5.D3.D11.D17.D25.3A.A.A$3.A.A15.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D8.
5D.D3.D.4D8.D3.D7.5D.D.2D8.D.2D3.3D3.3D2.D2.D13.D7.A5.A.A$.3A.A.A12.D
3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D5.D3.2D2.D7.2D2.D.D3.D.
D3.D.D.D15.D5.A.A5.A$A5.2A12.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D13.D3.D3.D.D3.D7.D.D.D3.
D5.D3.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.3D10.4D2.D5.A.A.3A$2A18.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D
13.D3.D3.D.D3.D7.2D.2D3.D5.D3.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D2.D14.D8.A.A$21.
4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D5.5D4.2D2.4D.4D2.5D.D3.D3.2D5.2D.D3.D.5D.D3.D2.3D3.3D
2.D3.D12.D8.C.C$155.C11$76.2A3.C$76.A3.C.A$.2A3.C43.5D22.A3.2A$.A3.C.
A26.D15.D27.A$2.A3.2A13.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D2.D17.D7.A.4A.A.2A$3.A16.D
3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D2.3D15.D5.A.A4.2A.A.A$.A.5A12.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D
9.D9.4D2.D4.A.A.2A4.A.A$A.A4.A12.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.D14.D6.2A.A.4A.
A$A.A.3A14.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D6.3D14.D15.A$.2A.A75.2A3.A$80.A.C3.A$81.C
3.2A11$A25.D$3A23.D7.D29.D41.D17.D29.A$3.A3.2A12.4D.D.2D8.4D9.3D3.4D.
5D2.3D2.D.2D8.D3.D2.4D.D.2D9.4D.4D2.5D16.D10.3A8.2C$2.AC4.A11.D5.2D2.
D3.D3.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D7.D3.D.D3.D.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D3.
D19.D12.A3.2A.A.C$8.A.2A9.3D2.D3.D3.D3.D3.D7.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D11.D3.D.
D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D.D3.D3.D14.4D2.D10.AC4.A.AC$5.CA.A.A13.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D
7.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D12.D.D2.D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D.D3.D3.D19.D17.A$4.C.A.A.A9.
4D2.D3.D3.2D2.4D2.5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D5.5D3.D4.4D.D7.2D3.4D.D3.D4.2D
16.D15.CA.A4.CA$4.2C3.A28.D119.C.A.2A3.A$38.D119.2C8.3A$170.A11$2C.A
47.3D34.2C.A2.A.2C$2C.3A28.D15.D3.D33.2C.4A.2C$6.A14.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D
.2D6.D18.D$2A.2A.A13.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D4.D20.D13.2A.4A.2A$.A.2A
.2A12.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D7.D16.4D2.D13.A.A2.A.A$.A18.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D6.D
22.D14.A.A2.A.A$2.3A.2C13.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D5.5D18.D14.2A.4A.2A$4.A.2C$
88.2C.4A.2C$88.2C.A2.A.2C11$6.2A70.D13.D46.2A$5.C.A26.D43.D13.D37.2A.
2A5.A$5.A15.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D9.3D2.4D9.4D2.3D3.4D.D2.D14.D18.C.A.A.
A.3A$3.A.A14.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D7.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D.D16.
D17.A5.A.A$.3A.A.A12.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D11.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D5.3D11.
4D2.D14.A.A5.A$A5.2A12.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D11.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D2.
D15.D13.3A.A.A.A.C$2A19.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D5.5D2.3D2.D3.D.5D2.4D2.3D3.4D
.D3.D13.D13.A5.2A.2A$124.2A12$213.C$2.2A16.D89.D6.2D91.A.A.C2.A$2.A6.
2A9.D7.D29.D41.D9.D7.D47.D41.3A.A.4A$4.A5.A9.D.2D8.D3.D2.3D9.4D8.4D2.
D.D3.3D3.4D2.3D8.5D2.4D.4D4.D4.3D9.3D2.4D9.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D15.D11.
A5.A$4A.A.3A10.2D2.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D7.D7.D3.D3.D.D.D.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D9.D
3.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D15.D11.A6.A$
A2.C.A.A12.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.5D8.3D4.D3.D3.D.D.D.D.5D2.3D2.5D9.D3.D3.D.D
3.D3.D3.5D7.D3.D.D3.D7.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D14.4D2.D9.2A5.2A$4.C15.D3.D3.D
4.D.D2.D15.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D9.D.D13.D3.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D11.D3.D.D3.D7.D
5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D19.D10.A6.A$20.D3.D3.2D4.D4.4D.5D.4D4.2D3.4D.D3.D2.4D.
4D3.4D.5D4.2D2.4D.4D4.2D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D3.D.5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D18.D13.
A5.A$205.4A.A.3A$205.A2.C.A.A$209.C10$114.2A8.2A$5.2A17.D15.2D72.A.A
8.A$5.A.A16.D9.D4.D2.D3.D17.D11.D5.D33.A2.2A.3A$7.A13.4D.D.2D9.D4.5D.
D3.D7.5D.D3.D7.5D13.D17.A.A.A.A$7.A.2A9.D3.D.2D2.D3.D3.3D5.D3.D3.D9.D
3.D3.D3.D5.D16.D13.2C.A.A.C$4.2C.A.A10.D3.D.D7.D4.D6.D3.D3.D9.D3.D.D.
D3.D5.D11.4D2.D13.C.A.A.C$5.C.A.A.A8.D3.D.D7.D4.D6.D3.D3.D9.D3.2D.2D
3.D5.D16.D14.C.A.A.2C$5.C.A2.2A9.4D.D7.2D3.D7.2D2.4D.5D4.2D.D3.D3.2D
5.2D13.D13.A.A.A.A$3.A.A.A46.D55.3A.2A2.A$.3A.2A44.3D55.A8.A.A$A108.
2A8.2A$2A8$114.A.2C$112.3A.2C$3.A.2A31.D42.3D27.A$3.2A.A31.D25.D15.D
3.D27.3A.4A$.2A17.D.2D3.3D3.4D.D2.D9.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D6.D13.D15.2A
3.A$A3.2A14.2D2.D.D3.D.D5.D.D9.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D4.D15.D17.2A$
4A.3A12.D5.D3.D.D5.3D9.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D7.D11.4D2.D12.A.2A$8.A11.D5.D
3.D.D5.D2.D8.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D6.D17.D13.2A.A$2.2C.3A12.D6.3D3.4D.D3.D.
5D2.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D5.5D13.D12.2A$2.2C.A104.A3.2A$110.4A.3A$118.A$
112.2C.3A$112.2C.A!
The symmetrical version of the eater_on_dock catalyst also disallows those annoying boat-bits, so that's also nice.

If there's anything wrong with these forms, let me know.

In addition, I would suggest adding the long barge to the catalyst list:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
2A12.2A2$.C11.A$C.C9.A.C3.A$.A.C9.A.C2.A$2.A.C.A7.A.A$3.C2.A8.A!
and the normal barge:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 10, rule = LifeHistory
2A.A$.2A2$.C7.A3.C11.C11.C4.A$C.A6.2A.C.A9.C.A9.C.A2.A$.A.C6.A2.A.C9.
A.C9.A.C.2A$2.C6.A4.C11.C11.C3.A2$25.2A$24.A.2A!
Also, somewhat off-topic, but from one of the catalyses, I found a one-glider component based on the eater_on_dock catalyst:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2o$o5b2o$b3obobo$3bobo$5bo$5bobo$6b2o$2b3o$4bo$3bo!

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Scorbie
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 22nd, 2015, 7:12 pm

gmc_nxtman wrote:I tried to symmetricalize as many of the catalysts as I could:
Nice to see those forms. Just keep in mind that there are some things to think about:

1. Steric Hindrance
By polymerization of catalysts, some parts may protrude so that it disallows some positions allowed by monomer forms.
2. Size
I first tried to make catalysts as polymerized as they could, but chris_c pointed out that bigger catalysts take more time than smaller catalysts. Which means, if a polymerized catalyst is significantly bigger than its monomer form, then it may even be slower.

At first glance, your hive_with_tail and eater_tub_with_hook looks really good.
Eater2 is also pretty good. I tried that a while ago. It's 1.5 times faster than the canonical form but it disallows some positions due to its massive size.
The shillelagh looks faster than its original form.
About the eater... The eater can work with its tail as in the boat-bit reaction. If we use the integral (is it?) Then we would have to add another snake, but the snake is slightly more obtrusive than the eater, so I'm not sure if that's a good choice.
The others are also pretty nice, but I would need to test them if there are any smaller forms, and verify if these forms are actually faster. (I cannot guarantee if they are faster in first glance.)


EDIT: About the long barge and the barge:
That's interesting. Actually I was pretty curious whether the barge can replace the boat. They do work in similar ways. And I'm not sure if the long barge can affect the main reaction. (It only reacts with sparks in both of the reactions you posted. I'll add them and check it out.)

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BlinkerSpawn
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by BlinkerSpawn » November 22nd, 2015, 8:19 pm

If you need a symmetric eater2, why not use this variant?

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 11, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A$2.A$4.A.2A$3.2A.2A2$3.2A.2A$3.2A.A$8.A$3A4.2A$2.A$.A!
LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed]

Image

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Scorbie
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 22nd, 2015, 8:26 pm

@BlinkerSpawn A matter of personal preference of slightly more search space over slight speed. That cannot work in some reactions because of that protrusive aircraft carrier over there. (e.g one of the eater2s in the conduit collection.) I haven't checked if that's significant but just decided to play safe.

EDIT: Incidentally, Kazyan uses that form in his/her search. So it's really a matter of personal preference.

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gmc_nxtman
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by gmc_nxtman » November 22nd, 2015, 11:23 pm

I improved three previous catalyst dimers, and dimerized the "regenerative_loop" catalyst:

Code: Select all

x = 153, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
.2A3.C43.5D30.2A3.C$.A3.C.A26.D15.D34.A3.C.A8.A$2.A3.2A13.3D3.4D.5D2.
3D2.D.2D2.D17.D17.A3.A.A5.3A$3.A16.D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D2.3D15.D
17.A4.A4.A$.A.5A12.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D9.D9.4D2.D13.3A5.A.A3.A$A.A4.A12.D
5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D5.D3.D14.D14.A8.A.C3.A$A.A.3A14.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D6.3D
14.D25.C3.2A$.2A.A13$6.2A70.D13.D42.2A$5.C.A26.D43.D13.D37.A5.A$5.A
15.3D3.4D.5D2.3D2.D.2D9.3D2.4D9.4D2.3D3.4D.D2.D14.D18.C.A.3A$3.A.A14.
D3.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D.2D2.D7.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D.D16.D17.A.A.A$.3A
.A.A12.5D.D3.D3.D3.5D.D11.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D5.3D11.4D2.D14.A.A.A$
A5.2A12.D5.D3.D3.D3.D5.D11.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D2.D15.D13.3A.A.C$
2A19.4D2.4D4.2D2.4D.D5.5D2.3D2.D3.D.5D2.4D2.3D3.4D.D3.D13.D13.A5.A$
124.2A12$120.2A6.2A$5.2A17.D15.2D77.A.A7.A$5.A.A16.D9.D4.D2.D3.D17.D
11.D5.D36.A.A.2A.3A$7.A13.4D.D.2D9.D4.5D.D3.D7.5D.D3.D7.5D13.D21.A.A.
A.A$7.A.2A9.D3.D.2D2.D3.D3.3D5.D3.D3.D9.D3.D3.D3.D5.D16.D22.A.C$4.2C.
A.A10.D3.D.D7.D4.D6.D3.D3.D9.D3.D.D.D3.D5.D11.4D2.D21.A.C$5.C.A.A.A8.
D3.D.D7.D4.D6.D3.D3.D9.D3.2D.2D3.D5.D16.D19.2C.A.2C$5.C.A2.2A9.4D.D7.
2D3.D7.2D2.4D.5D4.2D.D3.D3.2D5.2D13.D21.C.A$3.A.A.A46.D65.C.A$.3A.2A
44.3D64.A.A.A.A$A115.3A.2A.A.A$2A113.A7.A.A$115.2A6.2A5$137F5$4.2A93.
2D47.2A$.2C2.A64.D5.D23.D44.2C2.A$C.C2A15.D.2D3.3D3.3D3.3D2.4D3.3D2.D
.2D3.4D.5D7.D3.D2.3D10.D4.3D3.3D2.4D13.D10.C.C2A$C4.3A12.2D2.D.D3.D.D
3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.2D2.D.D3.D3.D5.D3.D3.D.D3.D9.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D13.D
9.C4.3A$.C2A4.A11.D5.5D.D3.D.5D.D3.D.5D.D5.D3.D3.D5.D3.D3.D.5D9.D3.D
3.D.D3.D.D3.D8.4D2.D9.C2A4.A$3.A.3A12.D5.D5.D3.D.D5.D3.D.D5.D5.D3.D3.
D5.D4.D.D2.D13.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D13.D12.A.3A$3.A.A14.D6.4D2.4D2.4D.D3.
D2.4D.D6.4D4.2D3.2D4.D4.4D.5D3.2D3.3D3.3D2.4D13.D13.A.A$4.A31.D79.D
28.3A.A$33.3D80.D27.A4.2AC$145.3A4.C$148.2AC.C$147.A2.2C$147.2A!
I am also confused about the difference between catalysts "twit" and "eater5".

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Scorbie
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 23rd, 2015, 1:33 am

gmc_nxtman wrote:I improved three previous catalyst dimers, and dimerized the "regenerative_loop" catalyst:
Huh! Pretty nice job with that eater on dock and regenerative loop. The Eater on dock does work, right?

Edit: a slightly smaller scorbic variation of the regenerative loop :wink:

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
A$A.A$3A$2.A4$18.2A$17.A2.A$14.2C2.A.A$13.C.C3A.2AC$13.C9.C$14.C2A.3A
C.C$16.A.A2.2C$16.A2.A$17.2A!
Edit: I first thought of this, but am concerned if this is too obtrusive:

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
A$A.A$3A$2.A3$20.A$18.3A$17.A3.2A$14.2C2.A2.A$13.C.C2A.A.A$13.C4.A.A$
14.C2A.A$16.A.2C$16.C2.C$17.2C!
I am also confused about the difference between catalysts "twit" and "eater5".
They are pretty much the same, except that the eater5 is less obtrusive on both sides (the "top" and "right"). How significant is that? Check out the census of the eater5, as it is the result with the twit filtered.

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Extrementhusiast
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Extrementhusiast » November 25th, 2015, 2:38 pm

What about something like this?

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o$7b2o$3b2obobo$2bobobo$2bobobo$obob2o$2o$7b2o$7b2o3$17b2o$18b2o$
18bo!
The part on the left reacts essentially the same way as eater on dock, but this variant is both dimerized and less obtrusive.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

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Scorbie
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Re: Results of catalyst tests

Post by Scorbie » November 25th, 2015, 6:34 pm

Nice suggestion. Actually the identical part is the still life on the center without the blocks, but I think that's a really good improvement.
Erm... Okay. I'll get all the improvements to work but I don't think I'll search with uncommon catalysts (frequency < 0.2) in the near future.

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