Code: Select all
x = 30, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
3A$A2.A17.3A$.3A16.A2.A$20.3A5$3.C$2.C.A2.CA13.C$2.2A3.A.A11.C.A2.CA$
9.A11.2A3.A.A$9.2A17.A$28.2A!
Code: Select all
x = 30, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
3A$A2.A17.3A$.3A16.A2.A$20.3A5$3.C$2.C.A2.CA13.C$2.2A3.A.A11.C.A2.CA$
9.A11.2A3.A.A$9.2A17.A$28.2A!
Code: Select all
x = 58, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
41b2o$19b2o10b2o9bo$o2bo13bo2bo8bo2bo9bob2o5b2o3b2o$4o10bo2b2o10b2o8b
2ob2obo5bo2bo2bo$6bo6bobobo7bobobo7bo2bo11b5o$2b5o6b2obo2bo5b2obo2bo5b
2obo$2bo13bob2o8bob2o7bo14bo$4bo11bo11bo10bobo11bobo$3b2o10b2o10b2o11b
2o12bo!
I forgot to tell you that the forms shown may not be identical to the forms used in the search. For instance, for that catalyst, I use this tetramer form:My names for the first still life is "Z siamese carrier and table".
Code: Select all
x = 10, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
3.C2.C$3.4A$A8.A$10A2$10A$A8.A$3.4A$3.C2.C!
Code: Select all
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#P 0 1280
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#P 80 1280
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#P 160 1280
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#P 240 1280
................**.
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#P 320 1280
.............**.*.**.
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#P 400 1280
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#P 480 1280
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#P 560 1280
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#P 640 1280
....................*.
..................***.
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#P 0 1360
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#P 80 1360
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#P 160 1360
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#P 240 1360
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#P 320 1360
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.....*.**.*...*.
........*.****.
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......*.*..***.
.....**.*..*.**.
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.....**..*.**.*.
.....***.*.*.
.....*.*......*.
Code: Select all
x = 10, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2o4b2o$2bo2bobo$2bo3bo$2bo$2o$6b2o$6bo$7b3o$9bo!
Hive-tail-eater #1, hive-tail-eater #2, two blocks, block and eater, long hook and block, long hook, eater on dock, modified long hook and block.Scorbie wrote:@A for awesome Would I name the catalysts you suggested as Pierce-xxx or something else?
Whoops, apologies to A for awesome... Didn't see your big new post of new catalysts... Will census with that next time. I was referring to your first suggestions:A for awesome wrote:Hive-tail-eater #1, hive-tail-eater #2, two blocks, block and eater, long hook and block, long hook, eater on dock, modified long hook and block.Scorbie wrote:@A for awesome Would I name the catalysts you suggested as Pierce-xxx or something else?
Code: Select all
x = 33, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
28b2o$6b2o10b2o9bo$4bo2bo8bo2bo9bob2o$bo2b2o10b2o8b2ob2obo$obobo7bobob
o7bo2bo$2obo2bo5b2obo2bo5b2obo$3bob2o8bob2o7bo$3bo11bo10bobo$2b2o10b2o
11b2o!
Hehe, yep those are pretty hard to find a good name. I followed gameoflifeboy's suggestions and named the first two boat_with_long_leg_on_sth and hook_with_long_leg_on_sth.A for awesome wrote:To be honest, I have no earthly idea.
Code: Select all
0.405 uniq_block_eater
0.256 uniq_table_table
0.231 uniq_pi_splitter
0.203 uniq_gourmet
0.183 uniq_twit
0.171 uniq_boat_eater
0.166 uniq_pierce
0.163 uniq_edgy_b_to_g
0.157 uniq_kazyan
0.157 uniq_transp_hive
0.143 uniq_eater_table
0.142 uniq_transp_block
0.134 uniq_eater_hook_with_tail
0.093 uniq_boat_with_long_leg_on_sth
0.092 uniq_mikep
0.086 uniq_transp_loaf
0.081 uniq_reflector_hook
0.066 uniq_hook_with_long_leg_on_sth
0.065 uniq_sokwe
0.050 uniq_ship_eater_variant
0.047 uniq_transp_boat
0.042 uniq_long_dock
0.030 uniq_beehive_with_long_leg
0.025 uniq_table
0.021 uniq_dead_spark_coil
0.017 uniq_transp_pond
0.013 uniq_boat_with_tail
0.011 uniq_ship
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2$6bo2$7b3o$8bo2$8b2o2bo$7bob4o$5b3o$4bo3b3o$5b3o2bo$7bo!
To be honest, I have no earthly idea.Scorbie wrote:Whoops, apologies to A for awesome... Didn't see your big new post of new catalysts... Will census with that next time. I was referring to your first suggestions:A for awesome wrote:Hive-tail-eater #1, hive-tail-eater #2, two blocks, block and eater, long hook and block, long hook, eater on dock, modified long hook and block.Scorbie wrote:@A for awesome Would I name the catalysts you suggested as Pierce-xxx or something else?Code: Select all
x = 33, y = 9, rule = B3/S23 28b2o$6b2o10b2o9bo$4bo2bo8bo2bo9bob2o$bo2b2o10b2o8b2ob2obo$obobo7bobob o7bo2bo$2obo2bo5b2obo2bo5b2obo$3bob2o8bob2o7bo$3bo11bo10bobo$2b2o10b2o 11b2o!
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$4bo2bo$bo2b2o$obobo$2o2bo$4b2o!
Code: Select all
x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
o2bo$4o$6bo$2b5o$2bo$4bo$3b2o!
Oh, true. What was I thinking!gmc_nxtman wrote:By reducing the first catalyst, its name becomes trivial: table siamese carrier on boat.
Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23 6b2o$4bo2bo$bo2b2o$obobo$2o2bo$4b2o!
Table siamese carrier on boat it is. Mind you though, these two aren't strictly the same. The cis-boat with long leg on sth has some catalyses that table siamese carrier on boat cannot do.A for awesome wrote:Oh, true. What was I thinking!gmc_nxtman wrote:By reducing the first catalyst, its name becomes trivial: table siamese carrier on boat.Code: Select all
x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23 6b2o$4bo2bo$bo2b2o$obobo$2o2bo$4b2o!
Code: Select all
x = 40, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
4bo2bo26bo2bo$ob2o3b3o20bob2o3b3o$2o2bo3b2o20b2o2bo3b2o$3obo2bobo20b3o
bo2bobo$o2bob2o2bo20bo2bob2o2bo$4o3bobo20b4o3bobo$b6ob2o21b6ob2o$b6ob
2o21b6ob2o$5o4bo20b5o4bo$2ob2obo23b2ob2obo5$b2o28b2o$bo2bo26bo2bo$3b2o
2bo25b2o2bo$4bobobo25bobobo$2bo2bob2o25bo2b2o$2b2obo27b2o$5bo$5b2o!
Good. I think that one's easier to remember.gmc_nxtman wrote:Also, I propose naming this one:as "Table on big pedestal".Code: Select all
x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23 o2bo$4o$6bo$2b5o$2bo$4bo$3b2o!
Code: Select all
x = 33, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A2.2A.2A13.2A2.2A$A2.A3.A.A12.A2.A3.A$3A4.A.A12.3A4.A.2A$4.CA.A.2A
15.CA.2A.A$2.C2.A.A2.C13.C2.A$2.2A.A.AC15.2A.A$3.A.A20.A$3.A.A20.A.A$
2.2A.2A20.2A!
Code: Select all
0.316 uniq_block_eater
0.226 uniq_table_table
0.224 uniq_pi_splitter
0.198 uniq_gourmet
0.157 uniq_pierce
0.149 uniq_edgy_b_to_g
0.143 uniq_twit
0.138 uniq_transp_block
0.138 uniq_kazyan
0.137 uniq_transp_hive
0.136 uniq_eater_hook_with_tail
0.136 uniq_long_hook
0.120 uniq_boat_eater
0.102 uniq_eater_table
0.093 uniq_transp_ship
0.079 uniq_transp_loaf
0.061 uniq_reflector_hook
0.060 uniq_table_table+1
0.060 uniq_sokwe
0.057 uniq_two_blocks
0.056 uniq_mikep
0.050 uniq_long_dock
0.042 uniq_eater_on_dock
0.038 uniq_transp_tub
0.037 uniq_modified_long_hook_and_block
0.037 uniq_transp_boat
0.032 uniq_long_hook_and_block
0.026 uniq_moose_antlers-1
0.025 uniq_moose_antlers
0.024 uniq_ship_eater_variant
0.022 uniq_beehive_with_long_leg
0.020 uniq_hook_with_long_leg_on_sth
0.017 uniq_hive_with_tail
0.016 uniq_ship
0.014 uniq_dead_spark_coil
0.013 uniq_table
0.012 uniq_hive-tail-eater#1
0.011 uniq_hive-tail-eater#2
0.011 uniq_transp_pond
0.009 uniq_boat_with_tail
I've been paying attention to this thread without contributing, but now I have to say: this catalyst rating project is really awesome.Scorbie wrote:(EDIT; rewrote everything)
Tweaked the code to deal with some caveats, and here's the result of the 2000-soup search I ran...
Code: Select all
x = 75, y = 61, rule = LifeHistory
2.A$A.A$.2A17$57.A.2A$57.2A.A2$55.5A$54.A2.C2.A$44.A9.2A3.A.A$42.A.A
15.2C$43.2A15$73.2A$73.2A4$61.A$60.A.A$61.2A9$49.2A$48.A.A$48.A$47.2A!
Thanks It's way still a work in progress and has subtle inconsistencies between search conditions. (And only today I found some quirks in my own tweak... Yep, the code is still very unstable.) I hope they get settled down after it gets mature. Also, credits to chris_c who analyzed the ptbsearch code and thankfully answered the flood of questions from me.dvgrn wrote:I've been paying attention to this thread without contributing, but now I have to say: this catalyst rating project is really awesome.
Checked the link and I think your area of interest would be a pretty ambitious field on its own. My search currently only uses catalysts and mechanisms from users' recommendations. Your project would investigate all relatively small still lifes without any assumptions of the catalysis mechanism.dvgrn wrote:It takes care of a line of research I've been going on about for years now (and I see I'm not the only one) -- but I was never brave enough to tackle it. I was mostly interested in rating relatively small simple objects that might find a use in self-contructing circuitry. This is a lot more ambitious, and it's really nice to see those ratings as part of a larger survey.
Yep, you are right. I'll post the new 'common catalysts' after I get back home.dvgrn wrote:I take it that the standard ship+eater migrated into the "common conduits"? Seems as if the ship+eater variant would be much higher on the list, otherwise. What is the full list of common conduits now?
Originally I haven't thought about adding this feature for the reasons stated above about my goal. However, as the search goes on, I was also interested at how common the block / eater / eater2 etc. would be. I haven't thought of an easy way, but I'll try to add those after things become stable. (My guess is that it would be REALLY common. And keep in mind that these so-called frequencies are relative values, and they could be well over 1. I'll elaborate it later.)dvgrn wrote:Is there an easy way to assign them some kind of provisional rating as well, and put them at the top of the list or something?
That would be an interesting catalyst to add as I just became curious if that can do more than eating centuries. (Like the interesting pi_splitter catalyst that can do more than just splitting pis.)dvgrn wrote:My first suggestion for a catalyst to analyze is the century eater
Well, inside Paul Callahan's original ptblist.pl there was a default value of $gen0 = 18 gens So I have been using that value since the start of this project. I wonder if he set this default value because he did a similar search along these lines.dvgrn wrote:A tangential thought: how many ticks do you run the random soups before you start applying catalysts?
While I can't agree with you more with the first statement, the ideal value of the catalysing start time would differ by the goal of the search. As I stated before, my personal goal of this search was find catalysts common in ptbsearch runs, specifically to find conduits or G->X s or something similar. If the searches start from T=100, then (one, it would take more time, and two,) most of the soups would have evolved into common methuselahs such as Herschel and pis, so the search would have a positive bias towards them. And in conduit searching, one would rather not perturb further if these objects come up, as it's already a(n almost) working conduit.dvgrn wrote:It seems as if at least the first ten ticks or so would be kind of noisy, and wouldn't give very reliable information about catalysts' usefulness. When I was imagining my vaporware version of this project, I thought it would be good to run it on 1000-tick methuselahs (let's say) and start catalyzing at T=100 or so.
Interesting! I think 18 ticks is long enough that small soups will have settled down into behavior that's statistically similar to T=100, though not necessarily indistinguishable.Scorbie wrote:Well, inside Paul Callahan's original ptblist.pl there was a default value of $gen0 = 18 gens So I have been using that value since the start of this project...
As I stated before, my personal goal of this search was find catalysts common in ptbsearch runs, specifically to find conduits or G->X s or something similar. If the searches start from T=100, then (one, it would take more time, and two,) most of the soups would have evolved into common methuselahs such as Herschel and pis, so the search would have a positive bias towards them. And in conduit searching, one would rather not perturb further if these objects come up, as it's already a(n almost) working conduit.
Code: Select all
R H HF B R B TL Pi TL LOM TL TL LOM HF
Code: Select all
x = 10, y = 10, rule = LifeHistory
A.A3.A2.A$2A2.3A2.A$4.A.3A$3A2.5A$A.2A2.2A$2A5.2A$2.3A.A$.A3.A$2A2.2A
.A.A$.A2.2A.A.A!
That seems more or less arbitrary -- reactions aren't going to get any less "natural" at T=10000 than at T=1000, but most likely the soup explosion will be unmanageably large by that time. Reactions probably aren't significantly more natural at T=10000 than at T=1000, either.Scorbie wrote:@dvgrn you have a point. I am currently not sure which is the ideal tine of interaction. I don't think I can send a thorough reply right now but I'll think about it more when I get more time. In the meanwhile, what do you think is the appropriate time interval of interaction? From gen 100 to ???
I've been following this thread too, and found it very interesting, but now that you explain how you plan to use the results it seems even more important!Scorbie wrote: I would say the objective of this project is rather small and specific, which is to determine the most popular catalysts and write the 'ideal' scorbie.list file to use in ptbsearch.
Code: Select all
x = 84, y = 259, rule = LifeHistory
74.2C$74.C6.2C$76.C5.C$72.4C.C.3C$72.C2.C.C.C$76.C3$5.2C$4.C.3C$4.C4.
C$.2C.C.2C.C$.2C.C.C.C$5.C6$A63.A$A.A61.A.A$3A61.3A$2.A63.A19$10.2C$
10.C3.2C$12.C2.C$11.4C2$11.2C$10.C2.C$11.2C.C.2C$14.C.2C$14.C$A11.C.C
$A.A9.2C$3A$2.A7$79.2C$79.C$80.C$77.4C2.C$77.C3.3C$80.C$80.2C9$13.2C$
14.C$14.C.2C$13.2C2.C$12.C2.C$13.2C2$A12.2C49.A$A.A10.C.C48.A.A$3A11.
C49.3A$2.A63.A24$15.C$14.C.C$15.2C2$15.2C$A13.C.C$A.A12.C$3A$2.A29$A
63.A$A.A61.A.A$3A11.C49.3A$2.A9.3C51.A$11.C$12.C.3C$8.C.C.2C3.C$8.2C.
C3.2C$11.C.2C$11.2C.C2$77.C$76.C.C$75.C.C$73.3C.C.C$72.C5.2C$72.2C16$
A$A.A$3A$2.A10.2C$11.C2.C$11.3C2$11.3C$11.C2.C$13.2C14$63.C.C$58.2C2.
C.2C$58.C3.C$22.C36.3C.3C$20.3C38.C.C2.C$19.C45.2C$20.C$19.2C$18.C$A
17.5C$A.A19.C42.A$3A15.2C45.2A$2.A16.C44.2A$19.C.C$20.2C22$62.2C.2C$
63.C.C2.2C.C$62.C3.2C2.2C$62.C.2C2.C$63.C.C.C.2C.C$A65.2C.C.2C$A.A$3A
$2.A61.3A5$17.2C$14.2C2.C$13.C.3C$13.C4.3C$14.3C4.C$16.C.3C$16.C.C$
17.C!
Still haven't thought much about the idea, but I'll try that next time and see how it goes.dvgrn wrote:So if you put together an apgsearch-like soup generator that keeps testing soups and returns the first one that lasts for more than (say) 250 ticks, then maybe you could just test T=100 through T=200. If you want to run fewer soups, just filter out only 1200-tick methuselahs and test everything from T=100 through T=1100.
Thankssimeks wrote:I've been following this thread too, and found it very interesting, but now that you explain how you plan to use the results it seems even more important!
Not at all. I've recently started to attach the latest results at the first post. Hope that helps. I'll add them to the next run when I solve the problem with the code and things get a little more stable.simeks wrote:I've been trying to keep up with what's been tested, but if any of these have already been suggested, I apologize.
Okay. I'm trying to change the search method so that every catalyst is taken into account. I thought of this:dvgrn wrote:Is there an easy way to assign them some kind of provisional rating as well, and put them at the top of the list or something?
Code: Select all
#Spartan Catalysts
block
block_supplement
two_blocks
transp_block
transp_hive
transp_loaf
boat
transp_boat
ship
transp_ship
tub
transp_tub
transp_pond
mirrored_boat
eater
block_eater
boat_eater
ship_eater
#Semispartan Catalysts
hook_with_tail
long_hook_with_tail
twit
hive_with_tail
hive-tail-eater#1
hive-tail-eater#2
boat_with_tail
table
moose_antlers
moose_antlers-1
bookend
dead_spark_coil
reflector_hook
dual_eater
long_dock
beehive_with_long_leg
long_hook
long_hook_and_block
eater_on_dock
hurricane
table_siamese_carrier_on_boat
century_eater
h_to_teardrop
#Slightly Contstructible Catalysts?
eater2
bookend_on_pedestal
eater_with_pedestal
table_on_long_pedestal
eater_hook_with_tail
gourmet
eater_table
eater_tub_with_hook
kazyan
mikep
hive_siamese_table_on_boat
hive_siamese_table_on_eater
ship_eater_variant
sokwe
eater3
BTS
edgy_b_to_g
#Absolutely Nonspartan Catalysts
eater_with_bookend
eater_inductor_hook_with_tail
table_table
table_table+1
regenerative_loop
modified_long_hook_and_block
simeks
hook_with_long_leg_on_sth
pierce
blinker_eater
pi_splitter
drifter
eater_misc
eater4
Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
8bob2o$8b2obo$6b2o$5bo3b2o$5b4ob3o$13bo$7b2ob3o$2b3o2b2obo$bo3bo$o3b2o
$bo!
...which I posted in the Herschel Conduits thread. Make sure you give attribution!A for awesome wrote:What about this one ("rock eater 2"):Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 11, rule = B3/S23 8bob2o$8b2obo$6b2o$5bo3b2o$5b4ob3o$13bo$7b2ob3o$2b3o2b2obo$bo3bo$o3b2o $bo!
I didn't know that. I only saw the variant with the eater 1.Extrementhusiast wrote:...which I posted in the Herschel Conduits thread. Make sure you give attribution!A for awesome wrote:What about this one ("rock eater 2"):Code: Select all
x = 14, y = 11, rule = B3/S23 8bob2o$8b2obo$6b2o$5bo3b2o$5b4ob3o$13bo$7b2ob3o$2b3o2b2obo$bo3bo$o3b2o $bo!
Code: Select all
x = 9, y = 11, rule = LifeHistory
A$A$.A.A$.3A3.2A$5.C2.A$5.3A$2.C$2.4A$5.A$4.A$4.2A!
Code: Select all
x = 54, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
10.A$8.A40.2A$8.A19.2A18.A.A$6.2A20.A.A11.2A4.A$13.2A15.A11.2A2.C2A$
8.2C.C2.A8.3A4.A.2A11.C3.2A$7.C.C.3A10.2A.2C.A.A12.CA2C2.A$2.2A3.C.C
18.C.A.A.A14.C2A$2.A2.C.A.3A16.C.A2.2A10.3CA$3.4A.A3.A13.A.A.A9.2A3.C
3.5A$8.A2.2A11.3A.2A10.A2.C.C.2A4.A$5.A.A15.A17.3A.C.A2.A$5.2A16.2A
21.A2.2A$43.3A$43.A$4.2A.A$4.A.2A2$5.5A15.A$2A2.A4.C14.A.A$A2.A2.C15.
A2.A2.A$.A.A.AC15.2A.A.2A$2A.A4.3A14.A3.2A$3.A3.A9.A4.2C.C.2A2.A$3.2A
2.A.A8.2A2.2C.C2.A.A$8.A11.A5.CA2.2A$8.3A16.A.A$9.A2.A14.A.A$12.A15.A
$11.A!
Code: Select all
x = 90, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory
6.A3.2A17.A3.2A17.A3.2A18.A3.2A$7.2A.2A18.2A.2A18.2A.2A19.2A.2A$5.A.A
20.A.A20.A.A21.A.A$6.A22.A22.A23.A$2A2.3A4.2A.A2.A5.2A2.3A4.2A.2A7.2A
2.3A4.2A.A9.2A2.3A4.2A.A2.A$2A9.2A.4A5.2A9.2A.A8.2A9.2A.3A7.2A9.2A.4A
$39.A23.A$11.5A18.5A.A16.5A2.A16.5A$10.A5.A16.A5.A16.A5.3A15.A5.A.2A$
11.2A2.2A14.3A.A.A19.2A2.A19.2A2.2A.A$6.2A.A.A18.A3.2A.2A13.2A.A.A.A
2.A16.A.A.A2.A2.A$6.A.2A2.A18.2A3.A15.A.2A.A.2A.A15.A.A2.3A2.2A$11.2A
20.2A.A21.A2.A16.A2.2A$33.A.A23.2A16.2A4.3A$83.A2.A$85.2A!
Well, my first piece of advice is that I don't really know what I'm talking about, so you shouldn't rely on my advice too much.Scorbie wrote:@dvgrn What would you think is a wise judgement? Changing the react gens to around 100~130 or Running about 100 soups, or some compromise in between?