The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

[dvgrn]

It works okay -- the R is hiding in plain sight. Really the conduit produces an R descendant, not an actual R, similar to all the B-heptomino conduits that actually produce a B-heptaplet.

Have you actually noticed my 6 June 2020 update to the collection? (And take the latest version!)

I downloaded the latest version and opened the g4_r_0 file before making that reply, yes. What exactly should I have seen that I didn't see?

It would make it a bit easier to be sure of downloading the right file if you could edit your earlier messages to remove the two outdated copies of files with exactly the same names.

[Freywa]

It would make it a bit easier to be sure of downloading the right file if you could edit your earlier messages to remove the two outdated copies of files with exactly the same names.

Done.

[nokangaroo]

g4_r_0 doesn't seem to work. It can be stabilized ... but where is the r in all this?

It works okay -- the R is hiding in plain sight. Really the conduit produces an R descendant, not an actual R, similar to all the B-heptomino conduits that actually produce a B-heptaplet.

Add an RF28Bc to the g4_r_0 pattern and everything becomes a little clearer. The combination of red and white cells shows the location of the (theoretical) output R:

Code: Select all

x = 42, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
.B$3B$4B3.A$.4B.2BA$2.4B3AB$3.8B26.B$4.8B24.2B$5.8B22.3B$6.8B20.4B$7.
8B18.4B$8.8B16.4B$9.8B7.2A5.4B$10.8B5.B2AB3.4B$11.8B4.3B3.4B$12.8B4.B
2.5B$13.8B.9B$14.16B.3B$15.19B$16.21B3.B$10.B3.B.22B.B2A$8.13BA18B2A$
7.D14BA16B.B$6.2D12B3A6B2A7B$5.2D11B2D9B2A4B.B$6.D10B2C14B$7.D9BAC2B
2A7B3.A$11.3B2.5B2A5B5.3A$9.3B3.13B8.A$9.2A5.4B.5B9.2A$10.A4.2B4.2B2A
B$7.3A4.2BAB5.2A$7.A7.A.A$16.A!

Thanks. That's what I wanted to kill with my eater, it seems. I just found my version as g4_g_0.

In several of the conduits that take 2 gliders as input the reset glider seems to come too soon. I can see why you'd want to do that - to save space, since in some cases the reset glider is 100s of ticks after the first. Also, some are marked "1" and "2", where it is obvious that I'm not supposed to fill in both gliders at once. Am I supposed to know this and correct the timing? Because I don't want to bother you with a lot of bug reports.

[dvgrn]

It would make it a bit easier to be sure of downloading the right file if you could edit your earlier messages to remove the two outdated copies of files with exactly the same names.

Done.

Many thanks for the update! I've added a link to it from the first post in this thread.

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

I have a different suggestion for conventions with symmetry-breaking conduits: Instead of naming it "PLxR196H" (ugly) or having both "PR196H" and "PLx196H" listed separately (space consuming and visibly redundant), we can do something else:

Let's refer to both of them as "PRv196H". I used "v" here as an example, it could be some other letter.

By the same logic, this "QL226H"/"QRx226H" would simply just be called "QLv226H" regardless of mirroring:

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 58, rule = LifeHistory
34.4B$10.2A3.A17.4B$11.A2.A.A15.4B$9.A4.A.A14.4B$9.5A.A14.4B$13.A15.
4B$9.2AB2.A13.4B$8.B2A3B.A11.4B$8.5B.2A10.4B$9.3B13.4B$5.8B11.4B$4.9B
10.4B$3.10B9.4B$3.10B.3B4.4B$3.14B3.4B$3.15B.4B$3.19B$3.3BD14B5.B$3.
3B2D16B.B2A$.6B2D17B2A$7B3D17B$.6B2D18B$3.3B2D17B$3.3BD17B$3.20B$3.
20B$3.20B$3.19B$4.17B$4.18B$6.15B$6.11B3.B2A$7.10B3.BA.A$6.12B5.A$6.
12B5.2A$6.13B$6.12B$7.10B6.2B$8.9B5.4B$7.9B5.5B$8.8B5.6B$7.10B.9B$7.
21B$7.17B2A2B$3.A.2AB.14BABA2B$.3AB2AB2.13B2A3B$A4.B4.18B$.3A.2A4.17B
$3.A.A6.15B$3.A.A7.2B2.2B3.6B$4.A7.BA8.5B$12.A.A6.6B$13.2A6.6B$22.5B$
22.3D2B$23.BDB$23.3D$24.B!

(By the way, that one wasn't quite shown right in the October 1st version of the collection, I don't know if it's fixed in the new version).

QF116B would have to then be QFv116B, and all symmetry breaking P->X and Q->X conduits would have a "v" in their names when referenced as a pair. Referring to an individual isomer would still be done as QF116B or QFx116B, as in that case the mirroring matters again.

For glider outputs, we could have the south lane forms used in the dual listing, as the FNG is a south glider.

Just referring to an ancient notation; it has been shortened to T for turn.

[dvgrn]

Just referring to an ancient notation; it has been shortened to T for turn.

No, the "T for turn" notation never caught on. Please let's not re-open the question again at this late date! We've been through all this before:

I'm not sure if you know that I invented the usage of "T" to mean "turn" in Pi and QB conduits. Please add "M" to mean "move" in HF and TL conduits.

Yes, you were the one who added that line to the Conduit definition. Thanks for the reminder.

It seems as if you might still not be clear on how the LifeWiki works. LifeWiki articles should only document widely accepted terminology that's in general use. If you invented some terminology yourself, as you're claiming here, then there's no way it should be added to a LifeWiki article -- yet. If lots of other people are using the term, then it makes sense to document it.

Nine times out of ten, terms invented with the best of intentions don't ever actually get used, and after a few years any remaining traces of them in LifeWiki articles start to look fairly mysterious -- especially if the inventors don't bother to make it clear that they were the inventors. Whatever-it-is often ends up looking like Official Life Terminology, but it's impossible to find any actual examples where anyone ever used it.

The day after that T-for-turn edit was made, Freywa posted an update to the Elementary Conduits Collection that used competing terminology in place of "T" or "M", or Sphenocorona's "v" -- there were a lot of options floating around. Freywa's terminology is now baked into the names of various conduits in the ECC, which quite a few people use as a standard reference. So it seems to make sense to document that usage, rather than trying to switch back to the "T" or "v" syntax.

At the time I remember thinking that the "T" syntax was a reasonably good idea, so that edit didn't get reverted right away. Unfortunately it just hasn't caught on, for whatever reason. At this point it's just another good example of why people probably shouldn't make up new ideas and edit them into LifeWiki articles immediately.

[Jormungant]

I-to-R ...

Code: Select all

x = 108, y = 58, rule = LifeHistory
15$80.2A$78.2B2AB10.B$78.4B10.2B$77.4B10.3B$28.6B43.7B6.4B3.2A$27.11B
39.8B4.4B4.2A$27.12B.B26.2A9.7B3.4B$26.12B.B2A26.A5.B.B.13B$25.15B2A
26.A.AB.17B$24.14B.2B28.2AB.16B$24.14B33.17B$24.14B33.13B2DB$26.13B
32.12B2D2B$27.13B31.13BD2B$26.B2D11B32.3B2.2B.B.5B$26.2D11B37.4B.6B3.
C$25.2BD12B36.B2AB.6B2.2C$25.16B36.2A3.5B3C$25.8BC7B41.4B.C$27.5B2C5B
$27.3B3C4B$28.2BC5B$29.6B$31.3B!

Thanks to that, I noticed that a B-to-I was hiding in the collection, but like many X-to-R, it converges to the same sequence while never matching the I pattern exactly:

Code: Select all

x = 145, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
13$126.BDB$126.B2DB.B$126.2B3D2B$115.7B.B.5BD2B$115.19B$113.C20B$113.
BC18B$112.2B2C17B$111.2B2C2B2A13B2A$111.2BC3B2A13B2A$18.C28.C29.2C34.
18B$17.2C28.2C27.C2.C33.10B2.5B$15.3C27.3C29.2C35.6B5.7B$15.C29.C27.
2AD39.3B8.B3.2A$71.4AC39.B14.A$73.A40.2A15.3A$72.A41.A18.A$115.A$114.
2A!

and a P-to-I (again hidden from the collection)

Code: Select all

x = 52, y = 48, rule = LifeHistory
3$25.BD4B$20.6B2D3B$20.7B3D3B$20.9BD2B$22.12B$22.12B$23.10B2A3.A$21.
12B2A2.A.A$20.12B.B3.A.A$8.2A7.B3.11B4.2A.3A$9.A5.4B2.12B4.B4.A$9.A.A
B.5B.12B3.B2AB3A$10.2AB.18B3.B2A.A$12.26B$11.25B$11.27B$11.27B$10.28B
$9.29B$9.29B$9.28B$10.26B$12.B3C19B$12.3BC14B$12.B3C15B$11.14B2.5B$
10.11B8.4B$10.12B.2B.3B.4B$11.30B2.B$11.13B2A11BD7B$12.7B2D3B2A9B3D7B
$14.6BD14BDBD9B$12.6B2D15BD11B$12.2A.3BD7B2.2B2.14BAB$13.A2.9B10.10BA
BA$10.3A3.9B12.8BABA$10.A4.8B15.8BA$14.2AB.4B15.10B$13.A.AB.2B2AB14.
9B$13.A6.2A15.8B$12.2A24.7B$39.5B$40.2B!

the I-to-E does not work, but maybe there are other connection possible... here is an useless I-to-R

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory
5$20.2C$20.2C2$4.B4$3.2B$2.2CB$2.2CB$3.2B4.D$6.3B3DBC7B$7.3BDB2C5B$7.
3B3C.3B$8.2BC5B$9.6B$11.3B!

[dvgrn]

Paul Callahan suggested this morning that the left side of the Bandersnatch might be catalyzable to get a different glider out, or possibly an accessible B, R, Herschel, or some such.

I tried a couple of catgl runs. Only got this far, but catgl doesn't look for transparent blocks or beehives:

Code: Select all

x = 162, y = 92, rule = LifeHistory
63.A59.A$64.A59.A$62.3A57.3A6$97.A59.A$96.A.A57.A.A$96.A.A57.A.A$95.
2A.3A54.2A.3A$83.2A16.A41.2A16.A$83.2A10.2A.3A42.2A10.2A.3A$95.2A.A
56.2A.A7$98.2A58.2A$89.A8.2A49.A8.2A$88.A.A57.A.A$88.A2.A56.A2.A$89.
2A58.2A2$129.2D$60.2A18.D15.2A24.2A5.2D25.2A$59.A.A17.D.D14.2A25.A32.
2A$3.A55.A19.D.D38.3A$4.A53.2A20.D39.A$2.3A$63.2A$62.A.A22.2A58.2A$
62.A24.2A58.2A$61.2A12.2A58.2A$74.A.A4.2A51.A.A4.2A$37.A36.A6.A52.A6.
A$36.A.A34.2A7.3A48.2A7.3A$36.A.A45.A59.A$35.2A.3A$23.2A16.A$23.2A10.
2A.3A$35.2A.A4$2.A$2.3A$5.A57.A59.A$4.2A32.2A24.A59.A$29.A8.2A22.3A
57.3A$28.A.A$28.A2.A$29.2A2$2.2A$.A.A32.2A59.A59.A$.A34.2A58.A.A57.A.
A$2A94.A.A57.A.A$95.2A.3A54.2A.3A$10.2A71.2A16.A41.2A16.A$11.A71.2A
10.2A.3A42.2A10.2A.3A$8.3A16.2A66.2A.A56.2A.A$8.A18.2A$15.2A$14.A.A4.
2A46.2A58.2A$14.A6.A47.A.A57.A.A$13.2A7.3A45.A59.A$24.A$98.2A58.2A$
89.A8.2A49.A8.2A$63.2A23.A.A32.2A23.A.A$63.2A23.A2.A31.2A23.A2.A$89.
2A58.2A$73.D59.D$72.D.D57.D.D$72.D.D21.2A34.D.D21.2A$73.D22.2A35.D22.
2A3$132.2D$132.2D$87.2A58.2A$68.A.2A15.2A58.2A$66.3A.2A3.2A58.2A$65.A
8.A.A4.2A51.A.A4.2A$66.3A.2A2.A6.A52.A6.A$68.A.A2.2A7.3A48.2A7.3A$68.
A.A13.A59.A$69.A!

There were also G-to-TL and G-to-interchange options, but none of them made anything that seemed accessible enough to be interesting. The beehive+block constellation is actually a clean one-time turner, but it sends a glider right into the southern bank of catalysts, so definitely not useful. The spiky spark from the top G-to-beehive might be useful, but the Annoying Beehive would have to be disposed of somehow.

If anyone is interested in running catalyst/catgl searches along these lines, I can post the input files I used. The first run placed three catalysts -- 3-catalyst search with eater1, eater2,snake, block, tub-with-tail, tub, and boat -- and the second run placed another three catalysts, starting with the first two eater1s at the bottom.

Obviously there are a _lot_ more possible catalysts that could be tried, these days, and clearly it's not impossible that some combination of them would produce a clean signal output.

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

eater1, eater2,snake, block, tub-with-tail, tub, and boat

Snake is not required, since eater1 can do the same thing but spartan. Also try adding loaves and ponds -- a transparent still life could just do the trick, like the Fx77 pond version.

[dvgrn]

Snake is not required, since eater1 can do the same thing but spartan. Also try adding loaves and ponds -- a transparent still life could just do the trick, like the Fx77 pond version.

Sure, but catgl has useful shortcuts in its search algorithm that (if I remember right) basically aren't compatible with transparent objects. I mentioned this in regard to blocks and beehives above, but it's equally true of any other object that might disappear completely and then reappear.

By contrast, ptbsearch can handle transparent-catalyst reactions just fine, so that might be a reasonable next thing to try on the Bandersnatch.

[pcallahan]

I don't know if this the right place to post Bandersnatch findings, but here's something that could conceivably have a specialized use. An unstabilized Bandersnatch removes a blinker and sends a glider 180°

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
25bo$24bobo$24bobo$23b2ob3o$11b2o16bo$11b2o10b2ob3o$23b2obo7$26b2o$12b
o4bo8b2o$13b2obobo$12b2o2bo2bo$17b2o3$24b2o$24b2o5$3o12b2o$15b2o!

I haven't tried to make it repeat, since I would need a blinker source. (Is this known? It was low-hanging gencols fruit.)

Also deletions of two beehive orientations with a shifted glider. They have different phases and diagonals from the stabilized one. Oddly, they have different phases from each other but the same diagonal. I wonder if you could at least make a Rube Goldberg p30 out of this using an unstabilized queen bee (Update: never mind. This can't remove a beehive every 30 steps.)

Code: Select all

x = 112, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
27bo39bo39bo$26bobo37bobo37bobo$26bobo37bobo37bobo$25b2ob3o34b2ob3o34b
2ob3o$13b2o16bo21b2o16bo21b2o16bo$13b2o10b2ob3o22b2o10b2ob3o22b2o10b2o
b3o$25b2obo36b2obo36b2obo7$28b2o38b2o38b2o$14bo4bo8b2o24bo4bo8b2o24bo
4bo8b2o$15b2obobo34b2obobo34b2obobo$14b2o2bo2bo32b2o2bo2bo32b2o2bo2bo$
19b2o38b2o38b2o$2b2o$bobo$bo24b2o38b2o38b2o$2o24b2o38b2o38b2o5$17b2o
38b2o38b2o$17b2o38b2o38b2o$53bo$52bobo35b2o$52bobo34bo2bo$53bo36b2o!

[dvgrn]

I haven't tried to make it repeat, since I would need a blinker source. (Is this known? It was low-hanging gencols fruit.)

Hadn't heard of it. It will never really be stable circuitry, I suppose, since the phase of the blinker matters. We have plenty of less hungry mechanisms nowadays that don't have to be fed blinkers every 268+8N ticks to keep them happy.

Code: Select all

x = 209, y = 146, rule = LifeHistory
172.2A$171.A.A$165.2A4.A$163.A2.A2.2A.4A$163.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$166.A.ABAB
AB$166.A.AB2AB$167.AB.2B$170.3B$170.4B6.2A$168.3B2AB6.A$167.4B2AB3.BA
.A$166.10B.B2A$165.13B$164.6B3D5B$163.7BD7B$162.4B2.3BD4B$161.4B5.6B$
160.4B4.9B$159.4B5.2A4.4B$158.4B7.A5.4B$157.4B5.3A7.4B$156.4B6.A10.4B
$155.4B19.4B$67.A.A84.4B21.4B$67.2A.A.2A79.4B23.4B$70.A.A2.A76.4B25.
4B$65.4A.A3.2A75.4B27.4B$65.A2.A.2A78.4B29.2B2A$62.2A.A3.3B77.4B31.2A
2B$63.A.2A3.5B15.2A56.4B33.BA2B$62.A4.B2.7B13.A56.4B35.4B$62.A.3A10B
4.4B2.BA.A55.4B37.4B$63.A2.A11B2.5B2.B2A55.4B39.4B$64.A3.10B2.8B56.4B
41.4B$61.3A4.20B55.4B43.4B10.2A$61.A6.19B8.B46.4B45.4B9.A$68.18B2.B5.
2B21.A23.4B47.4B10.A$65.26B2.4B.3B.B12.3A22.4B42.2A5.4B5.5A$64.40B10.
A24.4B44.A5.4B4.A$65.21B2ABD11B2A2B5.B3.2A11.A10.4B45.A.AB.7B2.B3A$
64.22B2AB3D9B2A2B3.8B11.3A7.4B47.2AB.7B3.2B.A$64.25BDBD13B.8B16.A5.4B
50.3B2D7B4A$66.25BD22B15.2A4.4B51.2BDBD2B2A3BAB2.2A$68.27B2.2B.15B14.
9B6.2A44.4BD2B2A2B.B3A2.A$69.10B.13B7.17B14.6B7.A45.10B3.B.A.2A$69.
10B2.6B14.19B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A44.8B8.A$68.11B3.3B16.15BC19B4.A.BA44.
9B7.2A$67.4B.7B4.B14.B3.7B.4BCBC13BD6B3.B2A44.4B2.3B$66.4B3.5B18.18B
3C9B2A2BDBD9B44.4B3.5B$65.4B4.3B20.18BC11B2A2B2D9B44.4B7.2A$64.4B6.B
21.13B2.29B44.4B8.A$63.4B6.A.A20.11B11.4B.17B43.4B10.3A$62.4B6.A.2A
20.11B12.2B3.15B43.4B13.A$61.4B7.A16.2A4.11B12.3B3.15B42.4B$60.4B7.2A
15.B2AB3.11B8.2A.2BA5.13B42.4B$59.4B26.2B3.13B7.A.2BA.A2.13B43.4B$58.
4B24.4B3.14B8.A2.BA.A.2A4.8B41.4B$57.4B24.6B2.14B9.A4.AB2A6.6B40.4B$
56.4B21.2B.7B2.13B8.A.5A2.B8.5B39.4B$55.4B21.2A22B9.A.A4.A.2A.A.2A5.B
.B38.4B$54.4B22.2A21B11.A2.2A.A2.A.2A.A4.3B38.4B$53.4B24.23B11.2A.A.
2A11.B2AB36.4B$52.4B26.19BD2B30.2A36.4B$51.4B27.5B2A13BD3B22.A42.4B$
50.4B27.5BA2BA10B3D4B20.A.A40.4B$49.4B26.B2.5BABA16B21.A.A39.4B$48.4B
26.2AB.6BA17B20.2A.3A36.4B$47.4B27.2A27B7.2A11.B4.A34.4B$46.4B29.2B.
26B5.B2AB4.2B2.B2AB3A34.4B$45.4B33.21B2.4B3.7B.6B2A.A35.4B$44.4B34.
21B3.22B36.4B$43.4B35.21B4.19B37.4B$42.4B37.19B4.21B35.4B$41.4B36.22B
3.21B34.4B$40.4B35.A.2A6B.7B3.4B2.21B33.4B$39.4B34.3AB2AB2.2B4.B2AB5.
26B.2B29.4B$38.4B34.A4.B11.2A7.27B2A27.4B$37.ABAB36.3A.2A20.17BA6B.B
2A26.4B$36.B2AB39.A.A21.16BABA5B2.B26.4B$35.3BA40.A.A20.4B3C10BA2BA5B
27.4B$34.4B42.A22.3BC13B2A5B27.4B$33.4B36.2A30.2BC19B26.4B$32.4B36.B
2AB11.2A.A.2A11.23B24.4B$31.4B38.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A11.21B2A22.4B$30.
4B38.B.B5.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A9.22B2A21.4B$29.4B39.5B8.B2.5A.A8.13B2.7B.2B
21.4B$28.4B40.6B6.2ABA4.A9.14B2.6B24.4B$27.4B41.8B4.2A.A.AB2.A8.14B3.
4B24.4B$26.4B43.13B2.A.A2B.A7.13B3.2B26.4B$25.4B42.13B5.A2B.2A8.3D8B
3.B2AB15.2A7.4B$24.4B42.15B3.3B12.11B4.2A16.A7.4B$9.A13.4B43.15B3.2B
12.11B20.2A.A6.4B$9.3A10.4B43.17B.4B11.11B20.A.A6.4B$12.A8.4B44.29B2.
13B21.B6.4B$11.2A7.4B44.10BD2B2A11BD18B20.3B4.4B$11.5B3.4B44.11BD2B2A
9B3D18B18.5B3.4B$13.3B2.4B44.2AB3.6BD13BDBD4B.7B3.B14.B4.5BAB.4B$3.2A
7.9B44.AB.A4.19BD15B16.3B3.4B2A5B$3.A8.8B44.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.19B14.6B
2.3BA2BA3B$2A.A.B3.10B45.A7.6B14.17B7.13B.3B2A5B$A2.3AB.2B2A2BD4B44.
2A6.9B14.15B.2B2.27B$.2A2.BA3B2A2BDBD2B51.4B4.2A15.22BD25B$3.4A7B2D3B
50.4B5.A16.8B.13BDBD18BA6B$3.A.2B3.7B.B2A47.4B7.3A11.8B3.2B2A9B3DB2A
14B3A5B$4.3AB2.7B.BA.A45.4B10.A11.2A3.B5.2B2A11BDB2A14BA2BA3B$7.A4.4B
5.A44.4B24.A10.34B3A3B$2.5A5.4B5.2A42.4B22.3A12.B.3B.4B2.8B6A5B2ABA3B
$2.A10.4B47.4B23.A20.3B5.B2.2BA2B4A6B2AB$4.A9.4B45.4B43.4B8.4B4A3B3A
5B6.A$3.2A10.4B43.4B44.2A9.12BA3BA3B4.3A$16.4B41.4B46.A9.8B2.2BA7B3.A
$17.4B39.A3B44.3A8.2AB2.5B2.3BA7BA2.A$18.4B37.B2AB45.A9.A.AB2.4B4.BA
8B3A.A$19.4B35.BABA56.A13.7B2.B4.A$20.4B33.4B56.2A15.5B3.2A.A$21.4B
31.4B77.3B3.A.2A$22.4B29.4B78.2A.A2.A$23.4B27.4B75.2A3.A.4A$24.4B25.
4B76.A2.A.A$25.4B23.4B79.2A.A.2A$26.4B21.4B84.A.A$27.4B19.4B$28.4B10.
A6.4B$29.4B7.3A5.4B$30.4B5.A7.4B$31.4B4.2A5.4B$32.9B4.4B$33.6B5.4B$
33.4BD3B2.4B$31.7BD7B$31.5B3D6B$31.13B$29.2AB.10B$28.A.AB3.B2A4B$28.A
6.B2A3B$27.2A6.4B$36.3B$37.2B.BA$36.B2ABA.A$35.BABABA.A$33.A2.A.A.A.A
.2A$33.4A.2A2.A2.A$37.A4.2A$35.A.A$35.2A!

Also deletions of two beehive orientations with a shifted glider.

We do have various H-to-beehive factories that could drop a beehive in those locations, so maybe this could find some use as a stop-and-restart mechanism somehow.

However, there are also conduits that can restart from a glider hitting a beehive directly to make an R-pentomino, with no need for a nearby big bulky Bandersnat (5/6ths of a Bandersnatch, not counting the loaf in its stomach I guess.)

[Extrementhusiast]

However, there are also conduits that can restart from a glider hitting a beehive directly to make an R-pentomino, with no need for a nearby big bulky Bandersnat (5/6ths of a Bandersnatch, not counting the loaf in its stomach I guess.)

Tangentially related:

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
4.A$5.A$3.3A2.A$7.A.A$7.A.A$8.A5$7.2A$.2C4.2A$C2.C$.2C!

[dvgrn]

Tangentially related:

Code: Select all

[G + notquiteGtoBconduit + beehive -> H + notquiteGtoBconduit]

Wow! Has this been run past Bellman yet? I guess a replacement for that beehive is fairly unlikely, since it turns into an R-pentomino that then reacts pretty energetically with the main reaction.

[Hdjensofjfnen]

I mean, this shifts the beehive to at least a more sensible location if it were to be catalyzed back into its original position:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
13.A$14.A$12.3A2.A$16.A.A$16.A.A$17.A5$16.2A$10.2A4.2A$.A7.A2.A$A.A7.
2A$.A4.2A$7.A$4.3A$4.A!

[Jormungant]

I mean, this shifts the beehive to at least a more sensible location if it were to be catalyzed back into its original position:

Well, I did manage to find a fix to that insertion you linked, but that's not really a great component given the recovery time, so I did not complete it:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
3$16.A.A$17.2A$17.A8$13.5B$13.5B13.A$13.6BD10.A.A$13.5BDB10.A.A$13.4B
2D2B10.A$13.B2A2B2D2B$13.B2A3BD2B$13.7B$13.7B$13.6B11.2A$15.3B6.2C4.
2A$17.B5.C2BCB$17.2A3.2B2C2B$18.A3.8B$17.A5.9B$17.2A3.11B$22.11B$22.
12B$22.5B2A5B.2B$22.4BA2BA6B2A$22.5B2A7B2A$20.15B.B$20.14B$19.11B$19.
10B$19.11B8.A$13.A5.12B5.3A$13.3A3.13B3.A$16.A2.13B2.A.A$15.2A4.10B4.
A$15.4B3.9B$17.3B.9B$16.13B4.2A$15.14B4.2A$15.15B$14.16B$14.16B$13.
17B$11.19B$11.2BC16B2.A$10.3BCBC4B.9B.A.A$11.2B3C4B2.B.6B2.A$10.5BC2D
2B5.5B$9.8BD2B4.B2A2B$8.8B3DB3.AB.A.B2A$7.13B2.A.2A2.BA.A$6.14B2.A8.A
$5.15B3.3A5.2A$4.15B6.A$6.13B$6.14B$7.12B$9.3B2A3B$10.BA2BA2B$12.2AB!

[Kazyan]

Tangentially related:

Code: Select all

[G + notquiteGtoBconduit + beehive -> H + notquiteGtoBconduit]

Wow! Has this been run past Bellman yet? I guess a replacement for that beehive is fairly unlikely, since it turns into an R-pentomino that then reacts pretty energetically with the main reaction.

I've run it through bellman with max-active 6 and repair-interval 30, to no interesting results. Limited max-active 9 attempts have found unusual ways of deleting the spark, but without turning it into debris or anything. I'll do another, deeper search.

[Extrementhusiast]

Tangentially related:

Code: Select all

[G + notquiteGtoBconduit + beehive -> H + notquiteGtoBconduit]

Wow! Has this been run past Bellman yet? I guess a replacement for that beehive is fairly unlikely, since it turns into an R-pentomino that then reacts pretty energetically with the main reaction.

It's possible to put a P5 or P6 sparker to replace the beehive, e.g.:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
10bo$11bo$9b3o2bo$13bobo$13bobo$14bo5$13b2o$13b2o$4bobo2b2o$3bobob2ob
5o$b3o3bo6bo$o3b3o2b2ob2o$obo3bo3bobo$b6o2bo2bo$7bo2b2o$b3o3b2obo$obo
2bobo2bo$o3b2o3bo$b3o2b3o$3bo2bo!

However, most solutions are then incompatible with a following Conduit 1, limiting its utility.

[dvgrn]

It's possible to put a P5 or P6 sparker to replace the beehive...
However, most solutions are then incompatible with a following Conduit 1, limiting its utility.

I guess there's some potential application as yet another periodic 2G -> Herschel converter -- G7, G8, G9, G10, G11, or G12, no timing constraints on the second glider except maybe for the edge cases G7 and G12, didn't check those carefully but they work at least sometimes:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 49, rule = LifeHistory
3.C$4.C$2.3C7$11.2B$11.3B$11.4B$3.C8.4B$4.C8.4B$2.3C9.4B$15.4B$16.4B$
17.4B$18.4B$19.4B$20.4B$21.4B$21.5B$20.7B2.4B$.A17.15B$A.A3.5B8.15B$A
.A3.7B6.15B$.A4.10B2.14BAB$6.25BABA$6.25BABA$6.16B2A8BAB$6.16B2A10B$
7.26B$14.2B.B.13B$13.3B8.2B.B.4B$9.2A.2BA9.4B2.B2AB$9.A.2BA.A6.6B3.2A
$10.A2.B2A6.ABA2B2A$11.A9.A.A.2A.5A$9.A.5A3.3A.2BA.B4.A$9.2A4.A2.A3.
3AB.2A.2A$12.3A3.A.A3.AB2.A.A$9.2A.A6.6AB.A2.A$9.A.A11.B.A2.2A$19.3A
2B.2A.A$18.A.A2.A.A2.A$18.A3.2A3.A$19.3A2.3A$21.A2.A!

But I think we have an awful lot of oscillator assisted 2G->H conversions at this point, and there doesn't seem to be anything too special about this one.

[dvgrn]

This is probably better for the Elementary Conduits thread, but here's a simple C-to-G that isn't present elsewhere. It won't be particularly useful until there's a conduit that this actually attaches to, though.

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
11bo$10bobo$10bobo$2o7b2ob3o$bo13bo$bobo5b2ob3o$2b2o5b2obo2$6bo$5b3o$
4b2o!

It looks sort of promising, though, so let's in fact mention it in Elementary Conduits. It does allow connections to some other conduits, but only "self-defeating" ones so far, unless I've missed a trick:

Code: Select all

x = 65, y = 108, rule = LifeHistory
4.4D2.D12.3D3.3D3.3D3.3D$4.D3.D.D5.D.D.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D$4.D3.D.D
6.3D6.D5.D.D3.D.D$4.4D2.D5.5D3.2D5.D3.3D2.D$4.D5.D6.3D6.D3.D3.D3.D.D$
4.D5.D5.D.D.D.D3.D2.D4.D3.D.D3.D$4.D5.5D8.3D2.5D2.3D3.3D3$21.E$20.E.E
$20.E.E$18.3E.2E7.2E$17.E13.E$18.3E.2E5.E.E$20.E.2E5.2E$25.3D$25.DBD$
25.D2BD$25.2B2D$23.7B$22.9B$23.7B$3.B20.6B$3.2B18.10B$3.3B17.11B3.B$
3.4B13.14B2.3B$4.4B11.20B$5.4B8.23B.B$6.4B6.25B2A$7.4B5.25B2A$8.4B3.
27B$9.4B.28B$10.27B2.B$10.31B$10.32B$8.34B$8.34B$8.32B.B2A$8.30B3.BA.
A$9.28B7.A$9.4B3C18B10.2A$11.4BC17B$11.2B3C14B$12.18B$11.18B$10.17B$
11.14B$12.13B$12.7B.5B$12.2A7.3B$13.A6.2A$10.3A7.A$10.A7.A.A$18.2A14$
D3.D.D12.3D3.3D2.4D2.D12.3D3.3D3.3D$D3.D.D11.D5.D3.D.D3.D.D11.D3.D.D
3.D.D3.D$D3.D.D5.D3.D.D5.D3.D.D3.D.D5.D3.D5.D.D2.2D.D$5D.D6.D.D2.4D3.
4D.4D2.D6.D.D5.D2.D.D.D.D$D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D5.D.D2.D2.D7.D5.D3.2D2.D.D$D
3.D.D6.D.D2.D3.D5.D.D3.D.D6.D.D3.D4.D3.D.D3.D$D3.D.5D.D3.D2.3D3.3D2.D
3.D.5D.D3.D.5D2.3D3.3D4$27.A$27.3A$30.A$29.2A$29.5B$27.B3.4B$26.2AB.
5B6.E$26.2A7B5.E.E$27.B.2B2A3B4.E.E$30.A2BA2B3.2E.3E$23.A5.2B2A4B3.B
4.E$23.3A3.7B3.2EB3E$14.A11.A3.5B3.B2E.E$14.3A8.2A4.10B$17.A7.14B$16.
2A3.B5.7BD5B$16.8B2.7B3D3B$18.15BD7B$18.17B.2B.2E$17.19B3.E$15.21B4.
3E$13.24B5.E$13.2BC14B4.4B$12.3BCBC4B.6B6.4B$13.2B3C4B2.B.5B5.4B$12.
5BC4B7.2C6.4B$11.10B8.CA7.4B$10.4B16.3D6.3B$10.3B19.D7.2B$10.2B29.B!

[Jormungant]

well, that b-to-g works, but that the only thing:

Code: Select all

x = 62, y = 53, rule = LifeHistory
4$31.4B$32.4B$31.C.4B$30.C3.4B$30.3C2.4B$36.4B$37.4B$38.6B$37.8B$37.
9B$36.11B$35.11B5.2A$34.12B5.A$34.11B3.BA.A$33.14B.B2A$32.17B$30.19B$
29.20B$24.B2.21B$23.3B.22B$23.26B$23.28B$22.30B$18.33B$7.A11.31B$6.A.
A10.D30B$6.A.A8.3BD23B.4B$7.A8.4B2D21B2.3B$16.3B2D22B4.AB$17.2BD23B3.
A.A$17.26B3.2A$19.24B$7.2A10.B2.2B2A18B$7.2A15.2A2B4.2B.8B$11.2A2.A.A
8.B9.6B$7.5A.2A.A.A16.7B$7.A6.A3.3A14.6B$8.2A.2A2.3A3.A13.8B$9.A.A3.A
3.A.A11.5B3.2A$9.A2.A2.6A12.2AB5.A$10.2A2.A19.A7.3A$11.A.2A3.3A10.3A
10.A$11.A2.A.A2.A.A9.A$12.A3.2A3.A$13.3A2.3A$15.A2.A!

there is a b-to-r/g that nearly works, but I could not find a way to insert an eater:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
26.C$25.C$25.3C11$7.4B$8.4B$9.4B$10.4B$11.4B3.B$12.4B2.B$13.4B.B7.A$
14.5B5.3A$13.6B4.A$2.A11.6B.B.2A$.A.A10.D10B$.A.A8.3BD7B$2.A8.4B2D6B$
11.3B2D6B$12.2BD7B$12.7B.3B$14.5B.B2A$2.2A10.B2A2B.BA.A$2.2A11.2A4.B
2A$6.2A2.A.A6.4B$2.5A.2A.A.A5.2A$2.A6.A3.3A4.A$3.2A.2A2.3A3.A3D$4.A.A
3.A3.A.AD$4.A2.A2.6A$5.2A2.A$6.A.2A3.3A$6.A2.A.A2.A.A$7.A3.2A3.A$8.3A
2.3A$10.A2.A!

[wildmyron]

there is a b-to-r/g that nearly works, but I could not find a way to insert an eater:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
26.C$25.C$25.3C11$7.4B$8.4B$9.4B$10.4B$11.4B3.B$12.4B2.B$13.4B.B7.A$
14.5B5.3A$13.6B4.A$2.A11.6B.B.2A$.A.A10.D10B$.A.A8.3BD7B$2.A8.4B2D6B$
11.3B2D6B$12.2BD7B$12.7B.3B$14.5B.B2A$2.2A10.B2A2B.BA.A$2.2A11.2A4.B
2A$6.2A2.A.A6.4B$2.5A.2A.A.A5.2A$2.A6.A3.3A4.A$3.2A.2A2.3A3.A3D$4.A.A
3.A3.A.AD$4.A2.A2.6A$5.2A2.A$6.A.2A3.3A$6.A2.A.A2.A.A$7.A3.2A3.A$8.3A
2.3A$10.A2.A!

Is this an interesting enough reflection reaction that it would be worthwhile finding p3, p4, p5, and other periodic completions for this reaction?

[dvgrn]

Is this an interesting enough reflection reaction that it would be worthwhile finding p3, p4, p5, and other periodic completions for this reaction?

I wouldn't say Definitely No, but it's hard to see where these would be used very often. They'd all be color-changers, and we already have bumpers with most of the relevant periods, that are smaller than this and have a significantly lower safe repeat time.

There's bound to be some convoluted path in a Quetzal or somewhere, where substituting one of these things in will just happen to allow a significantly shorter path than the equivalent bumper, and so it will reduce the bounding box by a few cells. Not sure how motivated people would be to look for things like that... and the p14-p1024 gun collection is already so highly optimized that there usually won't be room for reflectors even of this moderate size.

[wildmyron]

Is this an interesting enough reflection reaction that it would be worthwhile finding p3, p4, p5, and other periodic completions for this reaction?

I wouldn't say Definitely No, but it's hard to see where these would be used very often. They'd all be color-changers, and we already have bumpers with most of the relevant periods, that are smaller than this and have a significantly lower safe repeat time.

Ok, thanks. I suspected that might be the case which is why I asked before diving in to JLS.

[Kazyan]

Is this an interesting enough reflection reaction that it would be worthwhile finding p3, p4, p5, and other periodic completions for this reaction?

I wouldn't say Definitely No, but it's hard to see where these would be used very often. They'd all be color-changers, and we already have bumpers with most of the relevant periods, that are smaller than this and have a significantly lower safe repeat time.

There's bound to be some convoluted path in a Quetzal or somewhere, where substituting one of these things in will just happen to allow a significantly shorter path than the equivalent bumper, and so it will reduce the bounding box by a few cells. Not sure how motivated people would be to look for things like that... and the p14-p1024 gun collection is already so highly optimized that there usually won't be room for reflectors even of this moderate size.

I figure that a p3 or p5 replacement would turn the whole thing into a periodic G-to-R, which could allow for smaller guns of whatever periods turn out to be most convenient for the assembly.