H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
MathAndCode
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » December 30th, 2020, 10:35 pm

Scorbie wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 10:31 pm
Bellman can be run on Linux as well. There's an ubuntu binary in Bellman-szlim repo. (and compiling isn't too hard)
My computer uses macOS. I'm aware of the existence of emulators, but from what I hear, Bellman searches already take long enough without them.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » December 30th, 2020, 11:14 pm

Scorbie wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 9:29 pm
That reaction relies on the catalyst's leftmost two cells removed on gen 8 (otherwise it would make a hard-to-reach HF) so my best bet would be Bellman.
If it can be finished, it would make a relatively rare SE output, an SE2 I believe. Unless I've missed one in the last few years of wishing-someone-else-would-take-over-maintenance-of-the-HtoG-collection, there aren't any known elementary SE2s.

MathAndCode
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » December 30th, 2020, 11:18 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 11:14 pm
Unless I've missed one in the last few years of wishing-someone-else-would-take-over-maintenance-of-the-HtoG-collection, there aren't any known elementary SE2s.
Doesn't the Elementary Conduits Collection list H→Gs?
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » December 30th, 2020, 11:25 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 11:18 pm
dvgrn wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 11:14 pm
Unless I've missed one in the last few years of wishing-someone-else-would-take-over-maintenance-of-the-HtoG-collection, there aren't any known elementary SE2s.
Doesn't the Elementary Conduits Collection list H→Gs?
Yes, but I strongly suspect there are some missing, from the past few years.

Also, for the patterns that I build, the H-to-G stamp collection method of organizing these things is far more useful. Often I need to pick something like "output in such-and-such direction, odd lane number" (or even lane number) "and timing number either 1 or 5 mod 8". Whether it's elementary or not is irrelevant, so it's nice to have some of the small composites, Herschel conduits that output gliders in passing, etc., in the stamp collection as well.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » December 30th, 2020, 11:47 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 11:25 pm
Yes, but I strongly suspect there are some missing, from the past few years.
If the Elementary Conduits Collection is incomplete, I think that that problem should be addressed. I was going through the Elementary Conduits Collection, and I realized that it includes an H→G with a constituent H→P but does not include the corresponding H→P in the H→P section. Also, several of the conduits included are not elementary. I would like to see these problems fixed, and I am willing to help.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » December 31st, 2020, 9:35 am

MathAndCode wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 11:47 pm
dvgrn wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 11:25 pm
Yes, but I strongly suspect there are some missing, from the past few years.
If the Elementary Conduits Collection is incomplete, I think that that problem should be addressed. I was going through the Elementary Conduits Collection, and I realized that it includes an H→G with a constituent H→P but does not include the corresponding H→P in the H→P section. Also, several of the conduits included are not elementary. I would like to see these problems fixed, and I am willing to help.
Awesome! Okay, the last time the H-to-G and H-to-G{n} collection was updated was the, um, "annual update" in October 2016, but there was an update by Freywa to the Elementary Conduits Collection just a bit over six months ago. If you want more elementary conduits in the ECC, the main idea is to start with the ec-6-6-20.zip file in that link, add more separate named and commented RLE files, one for each new conduit, and then re-run the script. Would you be interested in giving that a try?

So far it has always seemed to be easiest to have one person do the coordinating for an update project, just because there tends to be a lot of duplicated work otherwise. Other contributors often add posts to the relevant thread, to point out any converters that still seem to be missing.

I guess what I'll volunteer to do is to scan through everything that has showed up in this thread since October 2016, and update the H-to-G stamp collection pattern accordingly -- the H-to-G collection doesn't have a builder script to go with it yet, but I don't think I'm quite willing to tackle that project yet.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » December 31st, 2020, 12:55 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 9:35 am
If you want more elementary conduits in the ECC, the main idea is to start with the ec-6-6-20.zip file in that link, add more separate named and commented RLE files, one for each new conduit, and then re-run the script. Would you be interested in giving that a try?
Yes, although I'd like to make changes beyond that. For example, filling in the input (from state 4 to state 3) of every conduit is tedious, and some conduits are dependent, so I'd like to see that changed—including for the conduits already in there.
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 9:35 am
So far it has always seemed to be easiest to have one person do the coordinating for an update project, just because there tends to be a lot of duplicated work otherwise. Other contributors often add posts to the relevant thread, to point out any converters that still seem to be missing.
I'm more concerned about not everything being in any single version. For example, Jormungant apparently has a separate repository of conduits, such as these I conduits, and I'm wondering what other regions are in there, such as E and S, that should be added to the Elementary Conduits Collection. And of course, other people could similarly have separate collections.
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 9:35 am
I guess what I'll volunteer to do is to scan through everything that has showed up in this thread since October 2016, and update the H-to-G stamp collection pattern accordingly -- the H-to-G collection doesn't have a builder script to go with it yet, but I don't think I'm quite willing to tackle that project yet.
I would like the Elementary Conduits Collection to include your collection; otherwise, it wouldn't be complete. Is it possible to run the ECC script on glider conduits?

Also, I think that we should (separately) keep track of messy conduits in case we find two messy conduits whose messes cancel each other out to make a clean conduit.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » December 31st, 2020, 1:32 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 12:55 pm
... filling in the input (from state 4 to state 3) of every conduit is tedious, and some conduits are dependent, so I'd like to see that changed—including for the conduits already in there.
Well, whoever does the work gets to make the rules about what goes into the collection. I'm not sure that changing every conduit to have a state 3 input would be a universally welcomed change, though. I find that when I'm sticking conduits together, I spend enormously more time deleting out input signals when I don't want them, than adding input signals when I do want them. It's really very handy to be able to overlap State 4 markers in Golly, when icons are turned on, and see through the floating pattern-to-be-pasted to the current universe, to get things lined up right.

We might consider switching the ECC to LifeSuper instead of LifeHistory, and coloring the input and output with two different marked states -- state 4 and state 8 let's say. That way If you want a copy of the ECC with state 3 inputs, you just use toChangeState.py once to change the state 4s to state 3, then convert to LifeHistory and save your own copy.

I do agree that it's nice to have a pre-Herschel marked to feed into dependent conduits. On the other hand, for connection purposes I still really want to have a plain state-4 Herschel input in dependent conduits, to help with copy-paste sticking things together. So maybe a good plan would be to include a "pre-H -> H" conduit in the ECC, like this:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = LifeHistory
.AB$2B2AD$3BACBD$4BDCDB$5ABD$3BAB!
MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 12:55 pm
I would like the Elementary Conduits Collection to include your collection; otherwise, it wouldn't be complete. Is it possible to run the ECC script on glider conduits?
Sure, it will work fine, as long as someone creates and comments all the separate RLE files for everything that's missing from the ECC. But it's not entirely an appropriate thing to do. A lot of the H-to-Gs are composite conduits -- but they're still very much worth collecting in the H-to-G collection, because that way you can look up specific output lane numbers for each direction and find the best fit for your particular purpose. It wastes an awful lot of time to constantly have to rebuild everything from its elementary pieces.
MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 12:55 pm
Also, I think that we should (separately) keep track of messy conduits in case we find two messy conduits whose messes cancel each other out to make a clean conduit.
The return on investment for that project seems relatively low to me. We could certainly create some kind of Messy Conduit Dumping Ground thread, but maintaining a thread like that is a lot of work, to say nothing of building a formal collection... so I'd advise only doing it after we're all up to date on existing collections.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » December 31st, 2020, 1:48 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:32 pm
Well, whoever does the work gets to make the rules about what goes into the collection. I'm not sure that changing every conduit to have a state 3 input would be a universally welcomed change, though. I find that when I'm sticking conduits together, I spend enormously more time deleting out input signals when I don't want them, than adding input signals when I do want them.
When I've chained together fairly long sequences of conduits, I've typically gone from the end to the beginning, so the input of one conduit being state 3 wouldn't be a problem because it would be overwritten by the state 4 output of the previous conduit. I can see situations where the chain could be built in either direction, and in that case, the person could simply build in the more convenient order, but I can't remember any situations where I have had to build the chain forwards.
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:32 pm
It's really very handy to be able to overlap State 4 markers in Golly, when icons are turned on, and see through the floating pattern-to-be-pasted to the current universe, to get things lined up right.
Wouldn't you still be able to line the conduits up that way if the inputs were state 3?
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:32 pm
I do agree that it's nice to have a pre-Herschel marked to feed into dependent conduits. On the other hand, for connection purposes I still really want to have a plain state-4 Herschel input in dependent conduits, to help with copy-paste sticking things together. So maybe a good plan would be to include a "pre-H -> H" conduit in the ECC, like this:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = LifeHistory
.AB$2B2AD$3BACBD$4BDCDB$5ABD$3BAB!
Yes, that's my plan for dependent conduits.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » December 31st, 2020, 2:25 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:48 pm
I can see situations where the chain could be built in either direction, and in that case, the person could simply build in the more convenient order, but I can't remember any situations where I have had to build the chain forwards.
Different working patterns, I guess. Happens to me all the time, to the point where if a version of the ECC appears with "live" signals in the input locations, I'll immediately search-and-replace my copy and replace all state 3 with state 4. Not really a big deal either way.

My bias toward marked signals instead of live signals comes from way back, I think. If I remember right, older version of Hersrch used to have live signals for both inputs and outputs -- this was before LifeHistory caught on at all, so there wasn't much other way to show the conduit hookups. So after Hersrch built a loop for you, you always had to go in and delete great piles of signals by hand.
MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:48 pm
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:32 pm
It's really very handy to be able to overlap State 4 markers in Golly, when icons are turned on, and see through the floating pattern-to-be-pasted to the current universe, to get things lined up right.
Wouldn't you still be able to line the conduits up that way if the inputs were state 3?
Sure, but half the time I'd end up with a live signal where I didn't want one, and then I'd have to change it back to state 4 -- usually I _do_ want the marked-OFF Herschel there for reference, in case it's necessary to rebuild part of a circuit, so I can't just select-and-delete.

The way the translucent-overlap works is that OFF cells are defined as checkerboard icons, so you can see any live cells through the gaps in the checkerboard. ON cells are circular, so you can see OFF cells around their edges but not through them.

MathAndCode
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » December 31st, 2020, 2:33 pm

dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:25 pm
Different working patterns, I guess. Happens to me all the time, to the point where if a version of the ECC appears with "live" signals in the input locations, I'll immediately search-and-replace my copy and replace all state 3 with state 4. Not really a big deal either way.
Yes, although one can't selectively use that search-and-replace trick for state 4 cells in the input but not state 4 cells in the output.
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:25 pm
The way the translucent-overlap works is that OFF cells are defined as checkerboard icons, so you can see any live cells through the gaps in the checkerboard. ON cells are circular, so you can see OFF cells around their edges but not through them.
Is Golly supposed to do that? I just checked, and state 2 and state 4 cells seem to be opaque when pasting on my computer.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » December 31st, 2020, 2:47 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:33 pm
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:25 pm
Different working patterns, I guess. Happens to me all the time, to the point where if a version of the ECC appears with "live" signals in the input locations, I'll immediately search-and-replace my copy and replace all state 3 with state 4. Not really a big deal either way.
Yes, although one can't selectively use that search-and-replace trick for state 4 cells in the input but not state 4 cells in the output.
Right, so what do you think of switching to LifeSuper so that inputs can be marked with a different state than outputs? Really I'd prefer sticking with LifeHistory and leaving both inputs and outputs as state 4, though, since in practice I pretty much never want either of them on.

When I want to turn a marked-OFF Herschel on, I select it and use Alt+K to switch the state from 4 to 3.
MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:33 pm
dvgrn wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:25 pm
The way the translucent-overlap works is that OFF cells are defined as checkerboard icons, so you can see any live cells through the gaps in the checkerboard. ON cells are circular, so you can see OFF cells around their edges but not through them.
Is Golly supposed to do that? I just checked, and state 2 and state 4 cells seem to be opaque when pasting on my computer.
Everything is opaque unless you have icons turned on. It's View > Show Cell Icons, also controlled by a mysterious pair of buttons in the Edit bar.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » January 3rd, 2021, 7:27 pm

I found a way to turn a Herschel into this nine-cell pure glider generator.

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
bo$o$o$o2bo$bobo$2b2o!
However, finding a way to allow both gliders to escape seems rather tight.

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o11bo$15b3o$15bobo$17bo7$15b2o$15bo$16b3o$4b2o12bo$4b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
bo$b3o$4bo$3b2o11bo$16b3o$16bobo$18bo7$16b2o$16bo$17b3o$2b2o3b2o10bo$3bo3bo$3o5b3o$o9bo!
It is possible to extract both gliders, or will we have to settle for one?
By the way, how common is that particular nine-cell object? I've seen it before somewhat recently in this I→2G+P conduit.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » January 3rd, 2021, 10:51 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 7:27 pm
By the way, how common is that particular nine-cell object? I've seen it before somewhat recently in this I→2G+P conduit.
I don't recognize it offhand, and it doesn't seem as if there's a known H-to-2G that produces it -- I checked the glider pair adjustment toolkit, and there are only a few glider pair outputs in the Ee2/Oo2 category (three each) (and none of them are 90-degree outputs).

Then I tried the octohash database, and found that the nine-cell object can be created by a symmetric five-cell spark hitting a ship -- it's not precisely a phi spark, more like a sabotaged pi-heptomino, which you can get from a glider hitting a pond, and nothing else very common apparently:

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$b2o3$8b2o$7bo2bo$7bo2bo$8b2o2$10b2o$10bobo$10bo!
This was the only match in the current octohash database, so it's not terribly common, but also not terribly uncommon... I suspect the great majority of the 118,133 nine-cell polyplets don't have any octohash matches at all, though I haven't run through the survey to prove that.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by bubblegum » January 3rd, 2021, 11:28 pm

dvgrn wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 10:51 pm
Then I tried the octohash database, and found that the nine-cell object can be created by a symmetric five-cell spark hitting a ship -- it's not precisely a phi spark, more like a sabotaged pi-heptomino, which you can get from a glider hitting a pond, and nothing else very common apparently:
This is a common-as-dirt spark (thrown off by the table for example) that can be created by a glider hitting a lot of things (with terrible clearance obviously):

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3o5$4b2o$4b2o!
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » January 3rd, 2021, 11:47 pm

dvgrn wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 10:51 pm
Then I tried the octohash database, and found that the nine-cell object can be created by a symmetric five-cell spark hitting a ship -- it's not precisely a phi spark, more like a sabotaged pi-heptomino, which you can get from a glider hitting a pond, and nothing else very common apparently:

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$b2o3$8b2o$7bo2bo$7bo2bo$8b2o2$10b2o$10bobo$10bo!
The relevant spark is the child of a P spark.

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2o8b2o$obo2b2o3bobo2bo$b2o2b2o4b2o2b2o$5bo9b2o!
The P spark has several four-cell predecessors (and multiple two-glider syntheses (although at least one also produces other sparks)), so the fact that it only has one common one-glider seed is probably a fluke.

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
o14bo14bo2$b2o13b2o13b2o$3bo4bo9bo3bo10bo2bo$2bo2b3o9bo3b2o9bo3b2o$2bo14bo2bo11bo$35bo!
Back to the nine-cell predecessor, it's produced in different ways in the I→2G+P and the prospective H→2G. It seems like the kind of object that could probably be produced with fewer cells, although I don't know for sure. As for the partial H→2G, it's probably the case that at least one glider can be extracted, although the resulting H→G may already be known.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » January 4th, 2021, 6:55 am

bubblegum wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 11:28 pm
This is a common-as-dirt spark (thrown off by the table for example) that can be created by a glider hitting a lot of things (with terrible clearance obviously)...
Yup, I was worried about there being something wrong with the octohash database, especially since the spark is symmetrical -- seemed like a version with the ship inverted should also have showed up in the search.

But it looks like glider+pond is the only single-object collision that produces a sufficiently edgy P-spark-child, and it produces another spark two cells below the P-spark-child's leading cell, a little before that, so the inverted-ship version doesn't work.
MathAndCode wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 11:47 pm
As for the partial H→2G, it's probably the case that at least one glider can be extracted, although the resulting H→G may already be known.
If you comment out the "Conduit has been damaged" error-check line in the H-to-G recognizer script at the top of this thread, you can find out what the systematic name is for those two gliders. Example input:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
3b2o7bo$3b2o3b2obobo$9bobobo$o8bobob2o$3o7bo$3bo$2b2o7$bo$bobo$b3o$3bo
11b2o$15bo$16b3o$18bo!
Turns out the two gliders are NW22T117 and NE14T-17, neither of which are shown in the current H-to-G collection:

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 69, rule = LifeHistory
D3.D.D3.D2.3D3.3D2.5D3.D5.D3.5D$2D2.D.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D3.D4.2D4.2D7.D$D.
D.D.D3.D5.D5.D3.D5.D5.D6.D$D2.2D.D.D.D4.D5.D4.D5.D5.D5.D$D3.D.D.D.D3.
D5.D5.D5.D5.D4.D$D3.D.2D.2D2.D5.D6.D5.D5.D3.D$D3.D.D3.D.5D.5D3.D4.3D
3.3D2.D4$D3.D.5D3.D6.D2.5D9.D3.5D$2D2.D.D6.2D5.2D4.D10.2D7.D$D.D.D.D
7.D4.D.D4.D11.D6.D$D2.2D.3D5.D3.D2.D4.D3.5D3.D5.D$D3.D.D7.D3.5D3.D11.
D4.D$D3.D.D7.D6.D4.D11.D3.D$D3.D.5D2.3D5.D4.D10.3D2.D4$.3D2.D3.D8.3D
2.5D2.3D4.D$D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D2.2D$D5.D3.D11.D3.D7.D3.D$.3D2.D.
D.D.5D4.D4.D6.D4.D$4.D.D.D.D9.D5.D5.D5.D$D3.D.2D.2D8.D6.D4.D6.D$.3D2.
D3.D7.5D3.D3.5D2.3D9$15.4B$16.4B$17.4B$18.4B$19.4B$20.4B$19.7B$19.8B$
18.2A8B$18.2AB.7B$19.B3.6B$15.A8.6B11.B$15.3A7.6B9.2B$18.A7.6B7.3B$
17.2A3.B2.8B5.4B$17.8B.8B3.4B$19.21B$19.20B$18.20B$16.21B$14.21B$14.
2BC14B$13.3BCBC4B.6B$14.2B3C4B2.B.5B$13.5BC4B7.2A$12.10B8.A$11.4B16.
3A$10.4B19.A$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$7.3B$7.2B$7.B!
So if there's a way to liberate either one of those gliders, it would break new ground as far as I can tell.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by Jormungant » January 4th, 2021, 9:30 am

Bandersnatchy h-to-g:

Code: Select all

x = 171, y = 81, rule = LifeHistory
17$145.A$144.A.A$48.A86.2A7.A.A$47.A.A84.B2AB5.2A.3A$38.2A7.A.A78.2A
5.3B6.B4.A$37.B2AB5.2A.3A75.B2AB2.B2.B5.B2AB3A$31.2A5.3B6.B4.A74.14B.
B2A.A$30.B2AB2.B2.B5.B2AB3A76.17B$30.14B.B2A.A77.17B$31.17B78.18B$30.
17B78.8BA11B$29.18B71.2A2.AB.7BABA10B$28.8BA11B70.A2.A.A8BA2BA8B$21.
2A2.AB.7BABA10B71.A.2A.9B2A8B$21.A2.A.A8BA2BA8B71.2A6.18B$22.A.2A.9B
2A8B73.A8.16B$21.2A6.18B72.A.AB5.17B$22.A8.16B73.2AB2.19B2A$22.A.AB5.
17B61.A12.22B2A$23.2AB2.19B2A60.3A10.23B6.A$25.22B2A63.A10.21B5.3A$
25.23B6.A56.2A4.2B4.20B5.A$26.21B5.3A52.B3.8B3.21B5.2A$26.20B5.A53.4B
4.7B3.20B2.5B$25.21B5.2A51.6B.9B3.16B.8B$26.20B2.5B51.6B.10B.9B.7B2.
8B$26.16B.8B52.27B2.8B2.8B$25.9B.7B2.8B50.22B4.B6.16B$24.9B2.8B2.8B
49.21B12.18B$23.4B4.B6.16B49.19B14.17B$22.4B12.18B45.20B14.16B.B2A$
21.4B14.17B43.21B13.17B2.BA.A$20.4B14.16B.B2A41.2BC21B3.2B2.20B5.A$
19.4B13.17B2.BA.A39.3BCBC4B.24BD15B6.2A$18.4B12.19B5.A40.2B3C4B2.23BD
BD4B.7B$17.4B13.2BC15B6.2A38.5BC4B2.23B3D4B2.6B$16.4B13.3BCBC4B.7B46.
10B4.22B2.D4B3.6B$15.4B15.2B3C4B2.6B45.4B10.29B6.4B$14.4B15.5BC4B3.6B
44.3B10.18B.4B12.B2A2B$13.4B15.10B6.4B42.4B11.14B5.3B14.2A.B2A$12.4B
15.4B12.B2A2B42.2A13.11B6.4B18.BA.A$12.3B16.3B14.2A.B2A41.A14.11B5.2A
23.A$12.2B15.4B18.BA.A37.3A16.7B.B2A5.A23.2A$29.2A23.A37.A20.4B2.BA.A
.3A$30.A23.2A56.B2A2B5.A.A$27.3A83.2A7.2A$27.A!


MathAndCode
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » January 4th, 2021, 2:02 pm

dvgrn wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 6:55 am
Turns out the two gliders are NW22T117 and NE14T-17, neither of which are shown in the current H-to-G collection:
So if there's a way to liberate either one of those gliders, it would break new ground as far as I can tell.
The northeast glider is probably going to be easier to liberate because it doesn't go directly towards the catalysts. The northwest glider is theoretically possible but significantly more difficult. However, the nine-cell region must form in order for either glider to be released, so the northwest glider will most likely need to be deleted as opposed to suppressed. Because, as mentioned before, it heads straight towards where the catalysts will most likely be, we will either need a catalyst to do double-duty (which doesn't seem to have any options in this particular case) or need to turn the bottom region into something that annihilates the glider instead of simply destroying the bottom region. Here are a couple of near-misses for the latter:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o11bo$15b3o$15bobo$17bo7$15b2o$15bo$16b3o$4b2o12bo$4b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
bo$b3o$4bo$3b2o11bo$16b3o$16bobo$18bo7$16b2o$16bo$9b2obo4b3o$2b2o5b2o
b3o4bo$3bo11bo$3o6b2ob3o$o9bobo$10bobo$11bo!
Since we have a reaction that at least theoretically works with the proper catalysts and does not come down to simple deletion, it might be better to leave finding a solution to Bellman.
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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dvgrn
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » January 5th, 2021, 10:43 am

Cross-posting from the Elementary Conduits thread:

here are three new H-to-Gs based on Sphenocorona's and AbhpzTa's new H-to-P conduit -- SE34T-17, NE39T123, and SE47T123:

Code: Select all

x = 71, y = 168, rule = LifeHistory
17.3D2.5D2.3D5.D2.5D9.D3.5D$16.D3.D.D5.D3.D3.2D4.D10.2D7.D$16.D5.D9.D
2.D.D4.D11.D6.D$17.3D2.3D5.2D2.D2.D4.D3.5D3.D5.D$20.D.D9.D.5D3.D11.D
4.D$16.D3.D.D5.D3.D4.D4.D11.D3.D$17.3D2.5D2.3D5.D4.D10.3D2.D5$23.BA$
22.BABA$22.BABA13.2A$23.BA2B12.A.A4.2A$21.5B14.AB2.2B2AB6.2A$20.9B2.
6B.3B3.4B7.A$20.22B2.6B2.BA.A$21.30B.B2A$20.18B2A13B$18.20B2A13B$16.
37B$16.2BC34B$15.3BCBC20B4.9B$16.2B3C17B.B4.11B$15.5BC16B7.BAB.B3.4B$
14.21B9.A.A.2A3.4B$13.4B5.14B6.3A.ABA5.4B$13.3B4.17B4.A3.A4.A4.4B$11.
4B5.2A2.14B4.A2.A.4A5.4B$11.2A8.A2.15B4.A.A.A9.4B$12.A5.3A3.15B5.A3.
3A7.4B$9.3A6.A6.15B10.A8.4B$9.A16.13B21.4B$28.5B3.2B23.4B$26.6B3.2B
25.3B$26.2A.B4.B2AB25.2B$27.A7.2A27.B$24.3A$24.A21$16.D3.D.5D2.3D3.3D
2.5D3.D4.3D3.3D$16.2D2.D.D5.D3.D.D3.D3.D4.2D3.D3.D.D3.D$16.D.D.D.D9.D
.D3.D3.D5.D7.D5.D$16.D2.2D.3D5.2D3.4D3.D5.D6.D4.2D$16.D3.D.D9.D5.D3.D
5.D5.D7.D$16.D3.D.D5.D3.D5.D3.D5.D4.D4.D3.D$16.D3.D.5D2.3D3.3D4.D4.3D
2.5D2.3D5$60.A$58.3A$57.A$57.2A11.B$54.5B10.2B$52.5B11.3B$39.A11.9B7.
4B$20.BA17.3A8.14B2.4B$19.BABA19.A6.15B.4B$19.BABA13.2A3.2A5.20B$20.B
A2B12.A.A2.5B2.19B$18.5B14.AB4.4B.18B$17.9B2.6B.3B4.5B.18B$17.22B2.
25B$18.47B$17.18B2A28B$15.20B2A29B$13.52B$13.2BC48B$12.3BCBC20B2.24B$
13.2B3C17B.B2.25B$12.5BC16B6.23B$11.21B9.22B$10.4B5.14B8.17B.2B$10.3B
4.17B7.2A4.12B$8.4B5.2A2.14B7.A7.9B$8.2A8.A2.15B3.3A9.8B$9.A5.3A3.15B
3.A12.5B.B2A$6.3A6.A6.15B17.3B.BA.A$6.A16.13B16.5B4.A$25.5B3.2B17.2AB
6.2A$23.6B3.2B19.A$23.2A.B4.B2AB15.3A$24.A7.2A16.A$21.3A$21.A14$12.3D
2.5D4.D2.5D.5D3.D4.3D3.3D$11.D3.D.D7.2D6.D3.D4.2D3.D3.D.D3.D$11.D5.D
6.D.D5.D4.D5.D7.D5.D$12.3D2.3D3.D2.D4.D5.D5.D6.D4.2D$15.D.D5.5D2.D6.D
5.D5.D7.D$11.D3.D.D8.D2.D7.D5.D4.D4.D3.D$12.3D2.5D4.D2.D7.D4.3D2.5D2.
3D5$44.A$44.3A$47.A$46.2AB6.2A$46.5B4.A$48.3B.BA.A$46.5B.B2A$33.A11.
8B$14.BA17.3A8.9B$13.BABA19.A4.12B$13.BABA13.2A3.2A2.13B.2B$14.BA2B
12.A.A2.22B$12.5B14.AB4.20B$11.9B2.6B.3B4.22B$11.22B2.23B$12.46B$11.
18B2A28B$9.20B2A29B$7.52B$7.2BC49B$6.3BCBC20B2.26B$7.2B3C17B.B2.27B$
6.5BC16B6.26B$5.21B9.26B$4.4B5.14B8.27B$4.3B4.17B7.2A6.15B.4B$2.4B5.
2A2.14B7.A7.14B2.4B$2.2A8.A2.15B3.3A9.9B7.4B$3.A5.3A3.15B3.A12.5B11.
3B$3A6.A6.15B17.5B10.2B$A16.13B21.2A11.B$19.5B3.2B22.A$17.6B3.2B24.3A
$17.2A.B4.B2AB25.A$18.A7.2A$15.3A$15.A!

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Kazyan
Posts: 1070
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by Kazyan » January 11th, 2021, 7:35 pm

Here's a NW19T100:

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 92, rule = LifeHistory
11.D3.D.D3.D3.D4.3D2.5D3.D4.3D3.3D$11.2D2.D.D3.D2.2D3.D3.D3.D4.2D3.D
3.D.D3.D$11.D.D.D.D3.D3.D3.D3.D3.D5.D3.D2.2D.D2.2D$11.D2.2D.D.D.D3.D
4.4D3.D5.D3.D.D.D.D.D.D$11.D3.D.D.D.D3.D7.D3.D5.D3.2D2.D.2D2.D$11.D3.
D.2D.2D3.D7.D3.D5.D3.D3.D.D3.D$11.D3.D.D3.D2.3D3.3D4.D4.3D3.3D3.3D4$
12.3D2.D3.D8.3D2.5D2.3D4.D$11.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D2.2D$11.D5.D3.D
11.D3.D7.D3.D$12.3D2.D.D.D.5D4.D4.D6.D4.D$15.D.D.D.D9.D5.D5.D5.D$11.D
3.D.2D.2D8.D6.D4.D6.D$12.3D2.D3.D7.5D3.D3.5D2.3D26$.4B$2.4B$3.4B$4.4B
$5.4B$6.4B$7.4B$8.4B$9.4B11.2A$10.4B10.A$11.4B11.A$12.4B6.5A$13.4B5.A
$14.4B6.B4A$15.4B5.BA2.A$16.4B2.6B$8.2A7.10B$9.A8.9B$9.A.AB6.8B$10.2A
B.3B3.8B.2B$12.18B2A$12.16B.B2A$13.15B2.B$12.15B$10.17B$8.19B$8.2BC
15B$7.3BCBC4B.7B$8.2B3C4B2.7B$7.5BC4B2.7B$6.10B2.8B$5.4B8.8B$4.4B10.
3BAB$3.4B12.BABAB$2.4B13.BABAB$.4B14.2BA2B$4B12.A2.5B2.A$3B12.A.A.2B.
2B.A.A$2B12.A.A2.2BA2B2.A.A$B13.A4.BABAB4.A$15.A3.BABAB3.A$12.3A.BA3B
A3BAB.3A$11.A3.3AB.3B.B3A3.A$11.3A3.3B.B.3B3.3A$14.6AB.B6A$13.A2.B2.B
A.AB2.B2.A$14.A.A.2A3.2A.A.A$15.2A.A5.A.2A$20.A.A$19.2A.2A!
Tanner Jacobi
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.

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dvgrn
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Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » January 17th, 2021, 12:50 pm

Extrementhusiast's new F193, or rather HFx134B, implies a new H-to-2G -- an NW7T182 glider (which is a new lane for the collection) along with the standard SW-2T21 FNG.

I think there are just a couple of H-to-3Gs possible by adding known B-to-Gs directly to the HFX134B -- SW57T399 and NE46T28. They're kind of big and maybe not worth collecting, but on the other hand they're Spartan and have several transparent lanes near the output lane. NE46T28 is transparent with a clearance of -1 to 5:

Code: Select all

x = 214, y = 84, rule = LifeHistory
70.D3.D.D3.D.5D.5D3.D4.3D3.3D40.D3.D.D3.D.5D.5D3.D4.3D3.3D$D3.D.D3.D.
5D.5D3.D4.3D3.3D30.2D2.D.D3.D5.D3.D4.2D3.D3.D.D3.D39.2D2.D.D3.D5.D3.D
4.2D3.D3.D.D3.D$2D2.D.D3.D5.D3.D4.2D3.D3.D.D3.D29.D.D.D.D3.D4.D4.D5.D
3.D3.D5.D39.D.D.D.D3.D4.D4.D5.D3.D3.D5.D$D.D.D.D3.D4.D4.D5.D3.D3.D5.D
29.D2.2D.D.D.D3.D5.D5.D4.3D5.D40.D2.2D.D.D.D3.D5.D5.D4.3D5.D$D2.2D.D.
D.D3.D5.D5.D4.3D5.D30.D3.D.D.D.D2.D6.D5.D3.D3.D3.D41.D3.D.D.D.D2.D6.D
5.D3.D3.D3.D$D3.D.D.D.D2.D6.D5.D3.D3.D3.D31.D3.D.2D.2D.D7.D5.D3.D3.D
2.D42.D3.D.2D.2D.D7.D5.D3.D3.D2.D$D3.D.2D.2D.D7.D5.D3.D3.D2.D32.D3.D.
D3.D.D7.D4.3D3.3D2.5D39.D3.D.D3.D.D7.D4.3D3.3D2.5D$D3.D.D3.D.D7.D4.3D
3.3D2.5D3$71.3D2.D3.D8.3D2.5D2.3D4.D42.3D2.D3.D8.3D2.5D2.3D4.D$.3D2.D
3.D8.3D2.5D2.3D4.D31.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D2.2D41.D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.
D3.D3.D2.2D$D3.D.D3.D7.D3.D3.D3.D3.D2.2D31.D5.D3.D11.D3.D7.D3.D41.D5.
D3.D11.D3.D7.D3.D$D5.D3.D11.D3.D7.D3.D32.3D2.D.D.D.5D4.D4.D6.D4.D42.
3D2.D.D.D.5D4.D4.D6.D4.D$.3D2.D.D.D.5D4.D4.D6.D4.D35.D.D.D.D9.D5.D5.D
5.D45.D.D.D.D9.D5.D5.D5.D$4.D.D.D.D9.D5.D5.D5.D31.D3.D.2D.2D8.D6.D4.D
6.D41.D3.D.2D.2D8.D6.D4.D6.D$D3.D.2D.2D8.D6.D4.D6.D32.3D2.D3.D7.5D3.D
3.5D2.3D41.3D2.D3.D7.5D3.D3.5D2.3D$.3D2.D3.D7.5D3.D3.5D2.3D3$71.3D2.D
3.D.5D.5D.5D2.3D3.3D3.3D34.D3.D.5D4.D3.3D2.5D2.3D3.3D$70.D3.D.D3.D.D
9.D3.D3.D3.D.D3.D.D3.D33.2D2.D.D7.2D2.D7.D3.D3.D.D3.D$70.D5.D3.D.D8.D
4.D7.D.D3.D.D3.D33.D.D.D.D6.D.D2.D7.D7.D.D3.D$71.3D2.D.D.D2.3D4.D5.D
5.2D3.4D2.4D33.D2.2D.3D3.D2.D2.4D4.D6.D3.3D$74.D.D.D.D5.D2.D6.D7.D5.D
5.D33.D3.D.D5.5D.D3.D3.D5.D3.D3.D$70.D3.D.2D.2D.D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D5.D5.D
33.D3.D.D8.D2.D3.D3.D4.D4.D3.D$71.3D2.D3.D2.3D2.D7.D4.3D3.3D3.3D34.D
3.D.5D4.D3.3D4.D3.5D2.3D5$213.B$141.B19.2A3.2B44.2B$2.B19.2A3.2B32.B
19.2A3.2B53.2B17.B2AB.4B5.2A35.3B$2.2B17.B2AB.4B5.2A24.2B17.B2AB.4B5.
2A45.3B17.3B.4B5.A35.4B$2.3B17.3B.4B5.A25.3B17.3B.4B5.A46.4B15.B.B2.
5B.BA.A34.4B$2.4B15.B.B2.5B.BA.A25.4B15.B.B2.5B.BA.A47.4B13.11B.B2A
34.4B$3.4B13.11B.B2A27.4B13.11B.B2A49.4B9.16B35.4B$4.4B9.16B30.4B9.
16B52.4B8.16B34.4B$5.4B8.16B31.4B8.16B53.4B5.17B34.4B$6.4B5.17B33.4B
5.17B55.4B3.18B33.4B$7.4B3.18B34.4B3.18B56.4B.20B31.4B$8.4B.20B34.4B.
20B56.24B19.A10.4B$9.24B35.24B57.23B19.3A7.4B$10.23B36.23B8.A49.22B.B
20.A5.4B$11.22B.B35.22B.B4.3A50.22B2A18.2A.7B$12.22B2A35.22B2A2.A18.A
32.24B2A18.9B$10.24B2A33.24B2A2.2A15.3A30.27B9.B11.6B$8.27B32.27B4.B
14.A33.2BC17B.6B7.2A2B4.2B4.5B$8.2BC17B.6B32.2BC17B.6B4.3B8.B3.2A31.
3BCBC17B10.2B2A10B.7B$7.3BCBC17B11.2A23.3BCBC17B8.6B5.7B32.2B3C21B3.
24B$8.2B3C21B7.A25.2B3C21B3.10B2.5B33.5BC4B.43B$7.5BC4B.17B3.BA.A24.
5BC4B.17B2.18B31.10B2.43B$6.10B2.19B.B2A24.10B2.23B2A13B2A27.4B3.B5.
43B$5.4B3.B5.21B25.4B3.B5.23B2A13B2A26.4B3.3B3.44B4.2A$4.4B3.3B3.22B
24.4B3.3B3.40B26.4B4.2A3B.45B2.A.A$3.4B4.2A3B.22B23.4B4.2A3B.40B25.4B
3.BA.A49B2.BA$2.4B3.BA.A25B23.4B3.BA.A45B24.3B3.2B2A.23B2.27B$2.3B3.
2B2A.23B25.3B3.2B2A.23B3.19B24.2B5.4B.16B3.2B5.25B$2.2B5.4B.16B3.2B
26.2B5.4B.16B3.2B4.7B.10B25.B7.22B8.26B$2.B7.22B29.B7.22B17.9B32.22B
9.26B$10.22B37.22B15.11B34.20B9.25B$12.20B39.20B15.11B35.17B.B2A7.3B
2.20B$13.17B.B2A38.17B.B2A12.2A9B36.9B3.B5.BA.A7.B5.15B$13.9B3.B5.BA.
A37.9B3.B5.BA.A11.2A10B36.7B3.3B7.A13.14B$14.7B3.3B7.A38.7B3.3B7.A12.
10B39.3B5.B2AB6.2A13.13B$16.3B5.B2AB6.2A39.3B5.B2AB6.2A14.6B40.B.2B5.
2A22.13B$16.B.2B5.2A48.B.2B5.2A23.6B40.B2AB29.14B$16.B2AB55.B2AB30.5B
4.2A36.2A31.13B$17.2A57.2A30.4B.B2A.A.A68.14B$107.4B2.B2ABA68.2AB.12B
$106.4B5.B2.A66.A.AB3.B2.6BAB$105.4B5.2A.2A66.A10.4BABA$104.4B7.A.A
66.2A11.3B2A$103.4B8.A.A79.3B$102.4B10.A81.4B$101.4B95.2A$100.4B96.A$
99.4B98.3A$98.4B101.A$97.4B$96.4B$95.4B$94.4B!
Repeat time is 175 for all three, whether or not the NW7T182 glider is eaten or escapes.

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bubblegum
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by bubblegum » January 17th, 2021, 2:59 pm

Appending a BFx59H gives a nice, trivial G52-in-passing conduit as well as the 2G, 3G and G59 variants.
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MathAndCode
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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by MathAndCode » January 23rd, 2021, 9:54 pm

Fun fact: The ship that a Herschel creates is from a glider-blinker collision. Suppressing the blinker allows the glider to escape.

Code: Select all

x = 42, y = 58, rule = B3/S23
23bo$23b3o$23bobo$2o23bo$2o6$24b2o$24bobo$26bo$26b2o$28bo$26b3o$25bo$
25b2o6$35bo$33b3o$32bo$32b2o$10b2o$10b2o6$22b2o$22b2o7$40bo$39bobo$40b
o4$30b2o3b2o$30b2o3b2o3$22bob2o$20b3ob2o$19bo11b2o$20b3ob2o5bo$22bobo
2bo4b3o$26b2o6bo!
I'm having difficulty finding a version that lets three gliders escape and doesn't require staged recovery.

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
23bo$23b3o$23bobo$2o23bo$2o6$24b2o$24bobo$26bo$26b2o3$24bo$22b3o$21bo
$20bobo$21b2o2$21b2o$22bo$22bobo$23b2o!
I have reduced the cost of universal construction to seventeen gliders and probably to sixteen. All that remains is for the universal operations to be found.

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Re: H-to-G and H-to-Gn converter collection

Post by dvgrn » January 23rd, 2021, 10:56 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 23rd, 2021, 9:54 pm
Fun fact: The ship that a Herschel creates is from a glider-blinker collision. Suppressing the blinker allows the glider to escape...
See HSE19T42 in the Elementary Conduits collection (though it isn't elementary, of course, so it's colored yellow):

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 81, rule = LifeHistory
D3.D2.3D2.5D3.D4.3D2.5D4.D3.3D$D3.D.D3.D.D6.2D3.D3.D3.D5.2D2.D3.D$D3.
D.D5.D7.D3.D3.D3.D4.D.D6.D$5D2.3D2.3D5.D4.4D3.D3.D2.D5.D$D3.D5.D.D7.D
7.D3.D3.5D3.D$D3.D.D3.D.D7.D7.D3.D6.D3.D$D3.D2.3D2.5D2.3D3.3D4.D6.D2.
5D10$5.2E.E$5.E.2E2$6.5E$.2E2.E4.E$.E2.E.BEB$2.E.E.2EB$.2E.E.4BE$4.E
3.BEBE$4.2E2.E2BE$9.2E3B$11.7B$11.9B$11.10B$11.11B$7.14B$7.14B$6.16B$
6.17B$6.11B2E4B$7.10B2E9B$7.24B$7.25B$8.24B$9.24B$8.26B$9.26B$7.29B$
7.2E.21B2E4B$8.E3.18BE2BE3B$5.3E5.9B.8B2E4B$5.E7.8B3.4B2.6B$15.5B5.4B
2.B$15.6B2.7B$15.16B$16.2B.13B$14.4B2.14B$14.2E3.16B$15.E3.17B$12.3E
4.17B$12.E7.17B$13.2E5.17B$14.E5.18B$14.E.EB3.18B$15.2EB.19B$17.21B$
17.20B$18.19B$17.20B$15.22B$13.24B.2B$13.2BD23B2E$12.3BDBD19B.B2E$13.
2B3D4B.14B2.B$12.5BD4B2.14B$11.10B2.9B.6B$10.4B9.11B2.4B$9.4B9.13B2.
4B$8.4B10.13B3.4B$8.2EB10.13B5.4B$6.3BE10.14B6.4B$6.3E11.13B8.4B$6.E
13.13B9.3B$20.13B10.2B$21.11B!
That one's been around for a long time, almost twenty years now I think. Generally if you discover an H-to-G these days, especially with a manual search, it's worth running the script in the first post of this thread, and see what it says the systematic name is for the output glider. If a search on that name doesn't turn up anything, you might have something new.

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