The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » December 6th, 2018, 6:55 pm

2718281828 wrote:Here, I posted a dove to G...
It fits well to this...
I think this finally almost justifies the "D" in the first post. We have a way to get from a century to a dove to a glider, and eventually back to a dove again.

However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again. We have the old Fx176 Herschel-to-pi-to-dove-to-Herschel, but we can't mix and match that with this other path, the catalysts are on opposite sides and there's no room on the other side.

This new path does look promising for getting something else out, though -- a different glider, at least, and that would be enough to certify a dove as a branch point.

-- Why do we have both "wing" and "dove" in the Elementary Conduits definition list, anyway? Maybe we should just remove "wing", since it turns into a dove in two ticks before there's any chance of interacting with it to change its evolution? EDIT: Ah, it's because I'm wrong. Must be out of practice with W and D, please disregard.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » December 6th, 2018, 7:12 pm

dvgrn wrote:Entity Valkyrie has pointed out in the LifeWiki PF35W article that the new improved PF35W, like the previous variant, allows for an F176 as well as an Fx176 -- both with a repeat time of 73 instead of 75, and with better clearance for following dependent conduit gliders. So the Herschel conduit ZIP file in Golly's pattern collection is a bit out of date there.
Related: here's a cute p2 way to tighten a row from the W-to-H.

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
32.2A$27.2B.2B2AB$20.2A4.3A5B$20.A.A4.B2.5B$17.BA.A.3A3.9B$14.2A.B2A
5.A3.8B$B12.B2A2B6.2A.3BD7B2.2B2.2B$8B6.4B6.6B2D15BD$4BC4B3.6B8.6BD
14BDBD$2B3C4B2.6B7.7B2D3B2A9B3DB$2BCBC4B.7B6.13B2A11BD$2BC15B5.25B$
19B3.12B.2B.3B.B$2.30B$4.29B$5.20B3D8B$4.23BD9B$4.21B3D8B$2.2AB.3B2.
21B$.A.AB6.20B$.A8.20B$2A7.12B.8B.B$8.10B5.8B2A$7.4B.6B6.7B.A$6.4B3.B
.B10.5BA3.2A$5.4B5.3B7.5B2.A.A2.A$4.4B5.B2AB7.2A3.2A2.3A$3.4B7.2A9.A
2.A2.2A$2.4B16.3A4.2A2.A$.4B17.A9.2A!
EDIT:
dvgrn wrote:-- Why do we have both "wing" and "dove" in the Elementary Conduits definition list, anyway? Maybe we should just remove "wing", since it turns into a dove in two ticks before there's any chance of interacting with it to change its evolution?
They are different patterns; they just have similar-looking first steps--run the isolated wing and dove to completion to see that they are indeed different explosions.
Tanner Jacobi

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by 2718281828 » December 6th, 2018, 9:46 pm

dvgrn wrote: However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again.
Other signal means H, R, pi, isn't it? Not just another glider?

Still, another dove to G:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
4$17.A$5.2A8.3A$4.A2BA6.A$4.BABA2B4.2A$4.2BA9B$6.8B$8.11B2.B$8.11B.3B
$8.15B$9.15B$7.17B$6.5B3C11B$7.4BCBC11B$7.3BC2BC11B$7.2BC2BC13B$7.3B
2C14B$7.18B$6.19B$5.21B$5.7B.13B$6.19B$6.21B$6.22B$6.4BD8B2.6B$8.2B2D
8B2.3B$9.DBD7B$9.8B$15.B$14.3B$14.B2AB$15.2A!
It also fits:

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
74.A$62.2A8.3A$61.A2BA6.A$61.BABA2B4.2A$61.2BA9B$53.A8.9B$45.2A5.A.A
6.15B2.B$46.A4.2BAB7.14B.3B$46.A.AB2.2B8.18B$47.2AB.B.6B2.20B$49.11B
2.19B$40.A9.10B2.6B3D11B$39.A.A7.13B.5BDBD11B$39.A.A5.20BD2BD11B$37.
3A.2A4.19BD2BD13B$36.A4.B5.20B2D14B$37.3AB2AB3.35B$39.A.2A39B$43.40B$
43.7B3D30B$43.7BDBD29B$44.6BD2BD3B6.21B$43.9B2D3B6.22B$43.15B5.4BD8B
2.6B$44.13B8.2B2D8B2.3B$44.12B10.DBD7B$28.B16.10B11.8B$28.2B18.10B14.
B$28.3B17.11B3.B8.3B$28.4B13.14B2.3B7.B2AB$29.4B11.20B8.2A$30.4B8.23B
.B$31.4B6.25B2A$15.4B13.4B5.25B2A$16.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$17.4B5.B2AB4.4B.
28B$18.4B5.3B5.27B2.B$19.4B3.B.B6.31B$20.4B.6B4.32B$21.10B2.34B$13.2A
7.45B$14.A8.42B.B2A$14.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$15.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$17.21B3D18B
10.2A$17.23BD17B$18.20B3D14B$17.38B$15.39B$13.19B3.17B$13.2BC15B5.14B
$12.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B$13.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$12.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$11.10B
6.4B7.A6.2A$10.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$10.3B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A$8.4B18.BA.A.A
7.2A$8.2A23.A.A.2A$9.A23.A.A.2A$6.3A25.A$6.A!
Edit1:
Another one Dove-to-G:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
3$5.A$5.3A$8.A$7.2A$7.4B$9.2B$8.5B$6.8B$4.11B$3.13B$2.16B$3.8B2D7B$3.
9B2D6B11.2A$2.9BD8B12.A$3.19B7.3A$4.5B3C10B7.A$4.5BCBC17B$5.3BC2BC18B
$5.2BC2BC20B$6.2B2C22B$6.26B$7.4B.2B6.12B$8.2B10.10B$21.6B$23.3B!
also fitting:

Code: Select all

x = 97, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
5$61.A$61.3A$64.A$63.2A$63.4B$65.2B$64.5B$62.8B$60.11B$50.A8.13B$42.
2A5.A.A6.16B$43.A4.2BAB7.8B2D7B$43.A.AB2.2B8.9B2D6B11.2A$44.2AB.B.6B
2.9BD8B12.A$46.11B2.19B7.3A$37.A9.10B2.6B3D10B7.A$36.A.A7.13B.5BDBD
17B$36.A.A5.20BD2BD18B$34.3A.2A4.19BD2BD20B$33.A4.B5.20B2D22B$34.3AB
2AB3.44B$36.A.2A30B6.12B$40.28B8.10B$40.7B3D19B8.6B$40.7BDBD19B10.3B$
41.6BD2BD3B6.8B$40.9B2D3B9.2B$40.15B$41.13B$41.12B$25.B16.10B$25.2B
18.10B$25.3B17.11B3.B$25.4B13.14B2.3B$26.4B11.20B$27.4B8.23B.B$28.4B
6.25B2A$12.4B13.4B5.25B2A$13.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$14.4B5.B2AB4.4B.28B$15.
4B5.3B5.27B2.B$16.4B3.B.B6.31B$17.4B.6B4.32B$18.10B2.34B$10.2A7.45B$
11.A8.42B.B2A$11.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$12.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$14.21B3D18B10.2A$
14.23BD17B$15.20B3D14B$14.38B$12.39B$10.19B3.17B$10.2BC15B5.14B$9.3BC
BC4B.7B7.13B$10.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$9.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$8.10B6.4B7.A6.
2A$7.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$7.3B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A$5.4B18.BA.A.A7.2A$5.2A
23.A.A.2A$6.A23.A.A.2A$3.3A25.A$3.A!
Edit2:
A signal splitter, Dove to G+R, the position of the R doesn't look too bad, still it does not fit with something else:

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
2$8.A$8.3A$11.A$10.2A$10.4B$12.2B$11.5B$9.8B$7.11B$6.13B$5.10BD5B$6.
9B2D6B$6.8BDBD6B$5.18B$6.19B$7.5B3C10B$7.5BCBC15B4.B$8.3BC2BC17B.B2A$
8.2BC2BC6BD13B2A$9.2B2C7B3D10B.B$9.12BD10B$10.4B.2B6.8B$11.2B11.7B$
25.5B$26.2B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » December 6th, 2018, 10:33 pm

2718281828 wrote:
dvgrn wrote: However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again.
Other signal means H, R, pi, isn't it? Not just another glider?
No, I think any branch to a different signal counts as a real branch point. The key is that the output signal can itself be converted to any other type of signal.

Just add a syringe to the D-to-G to get a Herschel, or whatever other signal type is wanted -- and it will be a Herschel at a spacetime location that you can't get from the other D-to-G. That means it's really time to add C-to-D and D-to-G categories to the Elementary Conduits Collection.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Freywa » December 7th, 2018, 4:44 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:BF293B:

Code: Select all

x = 71, y = 80, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$9bob2o6$16bo$15bobo$16b2o12$b2o$b2o7$58b2o10bo$58b2o8b3o$
67bo$67b2o3$2b2o62b2o$3bo62b2o$3o4b2o3b2o$o6bo4bo2bo$5bobo5b3o$5b2o$
12bob2o$12b2obo$26b2o$25bobo$25bo$24b2o2$63b2o$63b2o2$21b2o$21bobo$22b
2o32bo$18b2o35b3o$17bobo35bob2o$17bo$16b2o7$24b2o$24b2o9$36b2o$32b2o2b
2o$31bobo$31bo$30b2o!
Made of BLx134B and BRx159B.
Extremely high repeat time.
Actually made of BLx154H, HLx111R and RF28B.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » January 2nd, 2019, 3:47 am

Here's an Lx251 that Freywa pointed out a few days ago in a message on Discord:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
24.B$23.3D$23.BDB$22.2B3D$22.5B$22.6B$22.6B$22.5B$21.6B$22.6B$21.7B$
21.6B$21.6B$21.6B$20.8B$21.8B$20.9B$13.2A5.9B$14.A5.10B$14.A.AB2.5B2A
3B$15.2AB.6B2A4B$11.2A4.14B$12.A4.7BD7BA.2A$12.A.AB.6B3D4B2.2A.A$13.
2AB.5BD2B2D2B$15.13B$16.12B$16.9B$13.12B$13.11B$10.B.16B.BA$9.2A7BD
10BA.A$9.2A6B3D9B.2A$10.B.7BD7B$13.10BD3B$15.7B3D3B$14.10BD2B$5.2A7.
9B$6.A7.10B$6.A.AB4.10B3.2A$7.2AB.13B2.A2.A$9.18B3A$9.16B.B$10.16BAB
2A$9.15B.B2A2.A$7.18B.B2.2A$5.19B$5.2BC15B$4.3BCBC4B.7B$5.2B3C4B2.6B$
4.5BC4B2.6B.2B$3.10B4.7B2A$4.2B10.6B.B2A$.B2AB12.6B.B$3.A13.6B$3A14.
5B$A16.4B$B14.5B$15.2A$16.A$13.3A$13.A!
It certainly fits the criteria, but somehow it has escaped being added to the H-to-H collection until now.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Extrementhusiast » January 3rd, 2019, 2:44 am

dvgrn wrote:Here's an Lx251 that Freywa pointed out a few days ago in a message on Discord:

Code: Select all

RLE
It certainly fits the criteria, but somehow it has escaped being added to the H-to-H collection until now.
I had implied this one just ten posts ago, along with an Lx194:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 65, rule = LifeHistory
19.B$18.3D$18.BDB$17.2B3D$17.5B$17.6B$17.6B$17.5B$16.6B$17.6B$16.7B$
16.6B$16.6B$16.6B$15.8B$16.8B$15.9B$15.9B$15.10B$15.5B2A3B$15.5B2A4B$
15.11B$15.4BD7BA.2A$17.B3D4B2.2A.A$11.2A4.BDB2D2B$12.A4.6B$12.A.AB.6B
$13.2AB.7B$15.8B$16.8B$16.9B$13.12B$13.11B5.2A$10.B.11B6.A$9.2A7BD5B
2.BA.A$9.2A6B3D5B.B2A$10.B.7BD7B$13.15B$15.13B$14.13B$5.2A7.12B$6.A7.
10B$6.A.AB4.10B3.2A$7.2AB.13B2.A2.A$9.18B3A$9.16B.B$10.16BAB2A$9.15B.
B2A2.A$7.18B.B2.2A$5.19B$5.2BC15B$4.3BCBC4B.7B$5.2B3C4B2.6B$4.5BC4B2.
6B.2B$3.10B4.7B2A$2.4B10.6B.B2A$.B2AB12.6B.B$3.A13.6B$3A14.5B$A16.4B$
15.5B$15.2A$16.A$13.3A$13.A!
Time to update my list of assumptions, I guess!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » October 16th, 2019, 4:06 pm

Cross-posting EV2/AbhpzTa's new R49 Herschel conduit here.

It seems to imply a number of potentially useful composite conduits like Fx119+R49 = Lx168, not to mention A for Ampere's expectation that the key catalyst may be able to solve similar suppression problems elsewhere, e.g., where the loaf + J. Random Catalyst doesn't fit:

Code: Select all

#C no usefulness is warranted or implied,
#C   this is just a stabilized version of A for Ampere's example.
x = 73, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
22b2o48bo$23bo46b3o$23bob2o35b2o5bo$4bo16b3obo28bo5b3obo4b2o$3bobo9bo
4bo4bo27bobo3bo4bo$3bobo8bobo3b5ob2o25bobo4b3obob2o$b3ob2o7bo2bo6bobo
24b3ob2o5bobo2bo$o14b2o3b2obo3bo22bo14b2o$b3ob2o13bo3b3o24b3ob2o$3bob
2o14b2obo28bob2o$22bo$22bobo$23b2o$12b3o47b3o$13bo49bo$11b3o47b3o!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » October 24th, 2019, 5:42 am

Kazyan wrote:
June 8th, 2015, 12:53 pm
This produces an explosion so comically large it's practically a methuselah--looks like a good candidate for bait restoration attempts for that Spartan G-to-X dream.

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
2bo$o$4bo$2bo$6bo$4bo$8bo$6bo$10bo$8bo$12bo$10bo$14bo$12bo$16bo$14bo$
18bo$16bobo$17b2o4$28bo4b2o$27bobo3b2o$22b2o3bobo$22b2o4bo3$31b2o$31bo
$32b3o$34bo!
How to restore block?

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 56, rule = B3/S23
17bo$15b3o$14bo7b2o$14b2o6bo$20bobo$20b2o8$16bo$17b2o$16b2o4$27bo4b2o$
26bobo3b2o$21b2o3bobo$21b2o4bo2$4b2o$4bobo23b2o$5bo24bo$31b3o$33bo5$2b
2o$bobo$bo$2o7b2o$9b2o16$9b3o$11bo$11b2o!
The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
The 70th NAI-ve guy is watching.

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Please see User:Entity Valkyrie 2/StateInvestigator. Expect me to post StateInvestigator patterns in ExtendedLife threads.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » October 24th, 2019, 5:57 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
October 24th, 2019, 5:42 am
How to restore block?
Nothing comes to mind right away. This isn't a place where Bellman has enough room to work. An elementary single-input "factory" conduit that could drop that block back in there without getting in the way of the output would be pretty close to miraculous.

So I guess the restoration would probably have to be done with a composite conduit, synchronizing two gliders, maybe like this:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 56, rule = LifeHistory
17.A$15.3A$14.A7.2A$6.A7.2A6.A$7.2A11.A.A$6.2A12.2A12$17.A$16.2BA$16.
3AB7.A4.2A$17.4B5.A.A3.2A$18.3B2D3.A.A$19.2B2DB3.A$19.4B$4.2A14.2B$4.
A.A11.4B8.2A$5.A12.4B8.A$19.4B8.3A$20.2B2A9.A$21.2AB$22.BA3$2.2A$.A.A
$.A$2A7.2A$9.2A16$9.3A$11.A$11.2A!
Maybe an NW31 edge shooter could be used for one glider instead, but that would just make things more expensive -- it takes more circuitry to build a synchronized Herschel and glider than to just synchronize two gliders.

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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » November 16th, 2019, 6:00 am

Moosey wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 4:03 pm
Gamedziner wrote:
Extrementhusiast wrote:Let's make things confusing, shall we?

Code: Select all

x = 73, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
11.2A54.2A$12.A55.A$10.A55.A$10.5A51.5A$14.A55.A$10.2A54.2A$9.A.A53.A
.A$9.2A54.2A$13.2A54.2A$13.A.A53.A.A$.2D12.A39.2D14.A$2D13.2A37.2D15.
2A$.2D52.2D$2.D53.D8$.3C53.3C7.2A$2.C8.2A45.C8.A.A$2.3C6.A46.3C8.A$
12.3A54.2A$14.A!
The first one fails, as a glider destroys an eater.
Not really; the syringe on its own is destroyed by its Herschel. It works. So does the first one.

A good way to show this is that the conduit can be chained up to other conduits, e.g. BRx46B:

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
21.2A$22.A$20.A$20.5A$2A22.A$2A7.2A9.2A$9.2A8.A.A$19.2A$23.2A$.A21.A.
A$A.A8.2D12.A$A.A7.2D13.2A$.A9.2D$12.D8$11.3C$12.C8.2A$12.3C6.A$22.3A
$24.A$3.2D.D$4.3D$5.D!
New (possibly?) conduits: Lx231 and Lx235:

Code: Select all

x = 123, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
11.B2.2B2.2B63.B2.2B2.2B$10.11BD60.11BD$6.B2.12BDBD54.B2.12BDBD$5.2AB
.B2A9B3DB52.2AB.B2A9B3DB$5.2A3B2A11BD53.2A3B2A11BD$6.B.14B56.B.14B$8.
7B.B63.7B.B$7.7B65.7B$6.8B64.8B$6.8B64.8B$3.3B.8B60.3B.8B$3.12B60.12B
$2.2A11B.2B56.2A11B.2B$2.2A5BD7B2A55.2A5BD7B2A$3.B.3B3D4B.B2A56.B.3B
3D4B.B2A$5.5BD4B2.B59.5BD4B2.B$6.9B63.9B$6.10B62.10B$6.11B61.11B$7.
11B61.11B$6.12B60.12B$5.14B58.14B$2.17B55.17B$.2A15B55.2A15B$.2A15B
55.2A15B$2.17B55.17B$6.16B56.16B$7.16B20.2A34.16B22.2A$7.16B21.A34.
16B23.A$8.16B18.A37.16B20.A$5.20B17.5A30.20B19.5A$5.20B21.A30.20B23.A
$4.20B18.2AB31.20B20.2AB$3.22B15.BA.AB30.22B17.BA.AB$3.24B11.3B2A2B
30.24B13.3B2A2B$4.26B2.2B2.7B.B2A29.26B2.2B4.7B.B2A$2.10B.13BD15B2.BA
.A26.10B.13BD17B2.BA.A$2.2A4.2B2.7B.4BDBD6B2D7B5.A26.2A4.2B2.7B.4BDBD
6B2D9B5.A$3.A4.B4.B.3B2.4B3D5B2D8B5.2A26.A4.B4.B.3B2.4B3D5B2D10B5.2A$
3A4.2A3.2A2B4.4BD8B2D6B31.3A4.2A3.2A2B4.4BD8B2D8B$A6.A4.A2.AB4.13BD7B
30.A6.A4.A2.AB4.13BD9B$5.A.A5.3A12.2B.B.9B35.A.A5.3A12.2B.B.11B$5.2A
20.3B5.8B34.2A20.3B7.8B$9.2A.A.2A7.2A.2BA7.7B38.2A.A.2A7.2A.2BA9.7B$
9.A.2A.A8.A.2BA.A3.11B37.A.2A.A8.A.2BA.A5.11B$14.A9.A2.B2A2.12B42.A9.
A2.B2A4.11B$14.2A9.A6.12B42.2A9.A8.11B$23.A.5A2.11B52.A.5A4.11B$22.A.
A4.A2.B3D4B.4B49.A.A4.A4.B3D4B2.B2A$22.A.A2.A4.2BD4B4.2A49.A.A2.A6.2B
D4B3.BA.A$23.A3.2A3.2B3D2B4.A51.A3.2A5.2B3D2B6.A$32.6B6.3A59.6B7.2A$
32.6B8.A59.6B$32.6B68.6B$32.5B69.5B$31.6B68.6B$32.6B68.6B$31.7B67.7B$
31.6B68.6B$31.6B68.6B$31.6B68.6B$30.8B66.8B$31.8B66.8B$30.9B65.9B$30.
9B65.9B$30.10B64.10B$30.5B2A3B64.5B2A3B$30.5B2A4B3.2A58.5B2A4B3.2A$
30.11B3.A59.11B3.A$30.4BC7BA.A59.4BC7BA.A$32.B3C4B2.2A62.B3C4B2.2A$
32.BCB2C2B67.BCB2C2B$34.3B71.3B$35.2B72.2B!
The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
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Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Post by dvgrn » November 16th, 2019, 7:36 pm

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
November 16th, 2019, 6:00 am
New (possibly?) conduits: Lx231 and Lx235...
Moved this post over from the Elementary Conduits thread, since these aren't elementary. They're based directly on Extrementhusiast's HR44B / HR48B posting, so there's not a whole lot new about them. Could you please post links to your source messages when they're available? Otherwise people end up thinking, "I know I've seen that before somewhere" and wasting time on unnecessary searches.

EDIT: The quotation of Extrementhusiast's original post makes it a lot easier to find where things are coming from, so that's pretty good. Direct links (of the kind that the new forum software automatically creates for new quotations) are even better. It's possible to track back from the link to Moosey's posting, so this maybe isn't the best example of a problematic message. This one might be a better example: no words labeling the first pattern to say what it is, and nothing to say that it's an exact copy of another pattern posted in multiple other places. Duplicating patterns is usually not such a good idea anyway, but duplicating them without even saying what they are or where they came from is really not very nice. It's confusing, and it's a waste of people's time.

The Lx235 (with the older HR48B variant) is already in gmc_nxtman's H-to-H collection from a couple of years ago, which is in Golly's pattern collection. The Lx231 will have to get added whenever someone does the next H-to-H update, along with everything else that's new since August 2017.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » January 10th, 2020, 5:32 am

These reactions are definitely known, but this is a Stop and Restart:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 40, rule = B3/S23
24b2o$16b2o6bo$16b2o4bobo$22b2o$27bo$25b3o$24bo$24b2o$2bo$2bo$3o9b2o$o
11b2o18b2o$31bobo$31bo$30b2o5$33bo$31bobo$31b3o$31bo9$29b2o$29bobo$31b
o$31b2o$27b2o$18b2o7bo$3bo14b2o8b3o$3b2o25bo$2bobo!
The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » January 10th, 2020, 9:10 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
January 10th, 2020, 5:32 am
These reactions are definitely known, but this is a Stop and Restart...
Something very similar was used in the ladder circuit in Paul Chapman's prototype universal constructor from 2004. The only differences are that the block gets delivered from a different direction to keep the diagonal input lane clear, and the extra blinker doesn't get cleaned up by a catalyst because it's needed to absorb an extra glider anyway:

Code: Select all

x = 118, y = 112, rule = LifeHistory
7B.4B14.4B.6B61.4B$.7B.4B12.4B.7B60.4B$2.7B.4B10.4B2.6B60.4B$3.7B.4B
8.5B2.6B59.4B$4.7B.4B6.6B3.B2A3B57.4B$5.7B.4B3.9B.2B2A5B54.4B$6.7B.4B
.10B.9B53.4B$7.2B.19B2.9B.B49.4B$6.4B.18B.11B2A47.4B$7.34B2A46.4B$7.
35B46.4B$9.33B45.4B$11.29B46.4B$12.30B43.4B$11.26B2.B2A17.A9.A14.4B$
11.25B4.A18.3A5.3A13.4B10.A$10.24B.B2A3.3A5.2A11.A3.A15.4B11.3A$9.25B
.BA.A4.A4.A.A10.2A.B.2A13.4B15.A14.A$9.24B5.A9.A12.7B12.4B15.2A12.3A$
7.2AB3.6B.11B7.2A7.2A14.3B13.4B4.B.7B3.3B.2B7.A$6.A.AB.5B2.9B.4B15.B
13.6B11.4B.13B5.5B6.2A$6.A4.2A3.12B.4B12.3B9.2B2.6B4.36B2.5B$5.2A5.A
2.14B.4B9.6B7.4B.7B2.42B$9.3A3.15B.4B5.10B2.16B2.41B2A$9.A6.20B3.30B.
22B2A17B2A$14.30B2A46B2A16B.B$14.2A2.3B.22B2A34B2.2B3.23B$15.A3.B2.
55B11.10B2.9B$12.3A7.53B16.6B3.8B$12.A10.51B19.3B4.7B$30.18B3.B.22B
20.B3.11B$31.7B.9B7.11B2.7B20.2A2.12B$32.7B.4B12.3B.4B6.3B.B2A19.A2.
12B$33.7B.4B10.A4.2B2AB9.BA.A15.3A4.11B$34.7B.4B7.3A6.2A13.A15.A4.4B.
8B$35.7B.4B5.A24.2A19.2A4.7B$36.7B.4B4.2A45.A4.7B$37.7B.4B47.3A6.6B$
38.7B.4B46.A8.7B$39.7B.4B54.8B$40.7B.4B54.8B$41.7B.4B53.8B$42.7B.4B
51.6B2.B2A$43.7B.4B35.A14.7B.BA.A$44.7B.4B34.3A13.6B4.A$45.7B.4B36.A
5.B4.8B4.2A$46.7B.4B34.2A3.4B.6B2AB$47.7B.4B33.16B2A2B$48.7B.4B34.17B
$49.7B.4B32.17B$50.7B.4B32.13B$51.7B.4B33.12B$52.7B.4B34.10B$53.7B.BA
BA33.11B$54.7B.B2AB33.2B.7B$55.7B.A3B32.11B$56.7B.4B30.11B$57.7B.4B
29.11B$58.7B.4B28.11B$59.7B.4B27.8B2.B2A$60.7B.4B26.7B3.BA.A$61.7B.4B
25.7B6.A$62.7B.4B24.6B7.2A$63.7B.4B22.7B$64.7B.4B20.8B$65.7B.4B18.8B$
66.7B.4B16.9B$67.7B.4B14.4B.6B$68.7B.4B12.4B.7B$69.7B.4B10.4B2.6B$70.
7B.4B8.5B2.6B$71.7B.4B6.6B3.B2A3B$72.7B.4B3.9B.2B2A5B$73.7B.4B.10B.9B
$74.2B.19B2.9B.B$73.4B.18B.11B2A$74.34B2A$74.35B$76.33B$78.29B$79.30B
$78.26B2.B2A$78.25B4.A$77.24B.B2A3.3A5.2A$76.25B.BA.A4.A4.A.A$76.24B
5.A9.A$74.2AB3.6B.11B7.2A7.2A$73.A.AB.5B2.9B.4B15.B$73.A4.2A3.10B3.4B
12.3B$72.2A5.A2.12B3.4B9.6B$76.3A3.14B2.4B5.10B$76.A6.20B3.12B$81.30B
2A3BAB$81.2A2.3B.22B2A2B2AB$82.A3.B2.25B2A2B$79.3A7.26B2AB$79.A10.28B
$97.4B.13B$98.4B4.9B$99.4B4.4B$100.4B4.4B$101.4B4.4B$102.4B4.4B$103.
4B4.4B$104.4B4.4B$105.4B4.4B$106.4B4.4B$107.4B4.3B$108.4B4.2B$109.4B
4.B$110.4B$111.4B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » January 22nd, 2020, 12:33 am

Weird H-to-R:

Code: Select all

x = 72, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
o28bo28bo$3o9bo16b3o26b3o7b2o$3bo7bobo18bo9bo18bo6bo$2b2o7bobo17b2o7b
3o17b2o7bo$10b2ob2o24bo28b2o$40bo$10b2ob2o24b2o27b2o$9bobobo24bo28bobo
$10bo2bo25b2o27bo$bo9b2o17bo9bo18bo9b3o$bobo26bobo7bobo16bobo9bo$b3o7b
2o17b3o8b2o16b3o$3bo7b2o19bo28bo!

#C [[ STOP 22 ]]
Unfortunately, it couldn't connect to anything. The first still life gets changed into another, and the second and third still lives explode.
The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
The 70th NAI-ve guy is watching.

Please see User:Entity Valkyrie 2 for my own pages.

Please see User:Entity Valkyrie 2/StateInvestigator. Expect me to post StateInvestigator patterns in ExtendedLife threads.

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Re: Oscillator Discussion Thread

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » February 3rd, 2020, 1:22 am

L219:

Code: Select all

x = 117, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
35b2o11b2o52b2o$36bo10bobo53bo12bo$36bobo8bo55bobo8b3o$37b2o7b2o56b2o
7bo$114bo$46b2o65b2o$45bobo64bo$46bo66b2o$37bo9b3o54bo9bo$37bobo9bo54b
obo7bobo$37b3o64b3o8b2o$39bo66bo2$47bo66bo$45b3o64b3o$44bo66bo$43bobo
64bobo$44bo66bo3$42b2o65b2o$42b2o65b2o$2b2o65b2o$2bo66bo$3o64b3o3$12b
2o65b2o$12b2o65b2o2$39b2obo2bo60b2obo2bo$40bob4o61bob4o$38bobo64bobo$
38b2o2b2o61b2o2b2o$2b2o39bo25b2o39bo$2b2o38bo26b2o38bo$42b2o65b2o$38bo
66bo$38b3o64b3o$2b2o37bo27b2o37bo$2b2o36b2o27b2o36b2o2$11b2o23b2o40b2o
23b2o$11b2o9b2o12bobo39b2o9b2o12bobo$22b2o14bo50b2o14bo$38b2o65b2o!
P.S. I know that is the wrong thread, but all the Herschel conduit threads are pretty much dead, so I have to post it in an active thread. Sorry for the off-topic-ness!

EDIT: R64, but blinker can't be restored:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
31bo$30bobo$30bobo$29b2ob3o$35bo$2o27b2ob3o$bo27b2obo$bobo$2b2o5$14bo$
14bo$14bo6$bo$bobo$b3o15b2o$3bo15b2o7$13b3o$13bo$12b2o!
The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
The 70th NAI-ve guy is watching.

Please see User:Entity Valkyrie 2 for my own pages.

Please see User:Entity Valkyrie 2/StateInvestigator. Expect me to post StateInvestigator patterns in ExtendedLife threads.

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Re: Oscillator Discussion Thread

Post by dvgrn » February 3rd, 2020, 9:08 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
February 3rd, 2020, 1:22 am
L219:
...
EDIT: R64, but blinker can't be restored...
That "R64" would sound a lot more interesting if you mentioned the LWSS output! A good H-to-LWSS would be very nice to have. But I agree that it looks like a lost cause to get that blinker back into place. It can be done with synchronized gliders with no problem, but the mechanism will end up being larger than known H-to-LWSS converters.

The L219 might be a lost cause also. At least, I can't find any reasonable way to get a signal in to the input and a signal out of the output. I didn't try H-to-Gs that cross all the possible input conduits, but something like that would slow down the repeat time so much that the circuit wouldn't often be usable in practice. Did I miss a good connection?
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
February 3rd, 2020, 1:22 am
P.S. I know that is the wrong thread, but all the Herschel conduit threads are pretty much dead, so I have to post it in an active thread. Sorry for the off-topic-ness!
Okay, you've got me seriously puzzled here. This "Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits" thread might count as "pretty much dead" if your messages and mine don't count -- but why don't we count?

This is a thread that will be active whenever someone discovers a new Herschel conduit, and inactive otherwise. That doesn't make it dead. It will jump back to the top of the active list whenever someone posts, just like any other thread.

Anyway, that post really really didn't belong in the Oscillator Discussion thread, as far as I can tell, since it would be difficult to make an oscillator out of either pattern.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Jormungant » February 3rd, 2020, 4:09 pm

well well, managed to make that r64 h-to-h prototype into a proper blinker to lwss converter... now one needs to insert that glider I suppose.

Code: Select all

x = 45, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
4$28.2A$24.B2.B2AB4.A$24.2B2.2B4.A.A$24.5B5.A.A$33.2A.3A$34.B4.A$32.B
2AB3A$32.B2A.A$6.B.B23.B$5.2A2B$5.2A2B8.6B$6.2B10.5B$6.B11.BC3B$18.BC
3B$18.BC3B$18.5B2$8.8B$6.10B$4.12B$4.2BC9B$3.3BCBC4B.2B$4.2B3C4B2.B8.
2A$3.5BC4B2.B8.2A$2.10B$2.3B10.B$2.2B$2.B$16.6B$16.5B$16.2B3D$18.DB$
17.3D$18.B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » February 3rd, 2020, 5:14 pm

Jormungant wrote:
February 3rd, 2020, 4:09 pm
well well, managed to make that r64 h-to-h prototype into a proper blinker to lwss converter... now one needs to insert that glider I suppose.
Inserting the blinker isn't too bad when you only have to synchronize a couple of gliders, I guess. Here's the first thing that worked, with an Ee2 H-to-2G:

Code: Select all

x = 151, y = 142, rule = LifeHistory
62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.
5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B$62.5B
53.2A$62.5B52.A.A$62.5B46.2A4.A$61.6B4.2A38.A2.A2.2A.4A$60.8B2.B2AB4.
A32.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$59.10B2.2B4.A.A34.A.ABABAB$59.13B5.A.A34.A.AB2AB$
58.15B3.2A.3A33.AB.2B$52.21B4.B4.A35.3B$51.23B.B2AB3A36.4B6.2A$52.22B
.B2A.A36.3B2AB6.A$49.B.25B40.3B2AB3.BA.A$48.2A26B38.10B.B2A$48.2A24B
39.13B$32.A16.2B.22B38.6B3D5B$30.3A16.B2.23B36.7BD7B$17.A11.A22.9BCAC
12B34.4B2.3BD4B$17.3A9.2A20.25B33.4B5.6B$20.A9.B20.25B32.4B4.9B$7.2A
10.2A9.3B19.24B31.4B5.2A4.4B$8.A10.5B5.6B16.25B30.4B7.A5.4B$8.A.AB9.
4B3.10B11.26B30.4B5.3A7.4B$9.2AB.3B4.6B2.11B3.2B2.19B.9B29.4B6.A10.4B
$11.7B.9BD3B2A15BD26B27.4B19.4B$11.17B2D2B2A15BDBD12B.4B3.5B25.4B21.
4B$12.17B2D18B3D12B.2B2AB4.4B23.4B23.4B$11.18BD21BD5B.7B2.2A6.4B21.4B
25.4B$9.19BD29B.6B11.2B2D19.4B27.4B$7.18B.B3.13B.4B2.3DB.9B13.BDBD6.A
10.4B29.4B$7.2BC13B7.7B.B4.4B2.3BD3.8B14.D3B5.3A7.4B31.4B10.2A$6.3BCB
C4B.6B20.3B2.3BD5.8B14.4B7.A5.4B33.4B9.A$7.2B3C4B2.B.5B16.2AB3.4B7.7B
8.A6.4B5.2A4.4B35.4B10.A$6.5BC4B7.2A15.A.AB2.4B9.6B6.3A7.4B4.9B30.2A
5.4B5.5A$5.10B8.A16.A4.4B10.2B3D2B4.A11.4B5.6B32.A5.4B4.A$4.4B16.3A
12.2A3.4B11.2BD4B4.2A11.4B2.3BD4B32.A.AB.7B2.B3A$4.3B19.A16.4B12.B3D
4B.4B12.7BD7B31.2AB.7B3.2B.A$2.4B36.4B13.11B15.6B3D5B33.3B2D7B4A$2.2A
37.4B14.12B15.13B33.2BDBD2B2A3BAB2.2A$3.A36.4B15.12B16.10B.B2A31.4BD
2B2A2B.B3A2.A$3A36.4B17.11B18.3B2AB3.BA.A30.10B3.B.A.2A$A37.4B13.2A6.
7B19.3B2AB6.A29.8B8.A$37.4B15.A5.8B5.2A14.4B6.2A27.9B7.2A$36.4B16.A.A
B.8B6.A15.3B35.4B2.3B$35.4B18.2AB.9B2.BA.A12.AB.2B35.4B3.5B$34.4B21.
12B.B2A12.A.AB2AB33.4B7.2A$33.4B22.14B14.A.ABABAB31.4B8.A$32.4B23.2A
12B11.2A.A.A.A.A2.A28.4B10.3A$31.4B24.2A12B11.A2.A2.2A.4A27.4B13.A$
30.4B27.B.9B14.2A4.A30.4B$29.4B32.6B21.A.A27.4B$28.4B32.6B23.2A26.4B$
27.4B34.5B50.4B$26.4B35.D2B2D2B47.4B$25.4B36.B3D4B2.2A41.4B$24.4B35.
4BD7BA.A39.4B$23.4B36.11B3.A38.4B$22.4B37.5B2A4B3.2A36.4B$21.4B38.5B
2A3B41.4B$20.4B39.10B40.4B$19.4B40.9B40.4B$18.4B41.9B39.4B$5.2A10.4B
43.8B38.4B$6.A9.4B43.8B38.4B$4.A10.4B45.6B38.4B$4.5A5.4B5.2A33.2A4.6B
37.4B$9.A4.4B5.A35.A4.6B36.4B$6.3AB2.7B.BA.A35.A.AB.7B34.4B$5.A.2B3.
7B.B2A37.2AB2.6B33.4B$5.4A7B2D3B41.8B33.4B$3.2A2.BA3B2A2BDBD2B41.8B
32.4B$2.A2.3AB.2B2A2BD4B42.8B30.4B$2.2A.A.B3.10B43.7B8.A20.4B$5.A8.8B
43.6B6.3A19.4B$5.2A7.9B42.2B3D2B4.A21.4B$15.3B2.4B41.2BD4B4.2A19.4B$
13.5B3.4B40.B3D4B.4B10.A7.4B$13.2A7.4B32.2A5.11B10.3A6.4B$14.A8.4B30.
B2AB4.12B8.A8.4B$11.3A10.4B29.4B4.12B8.2A6.4B$11.A13.4B29.2B6.11B5.5B
5.4B$26.4B27.5B7.9B3.4B6.4B$27.4B25.7B.2B2.10B.7B4.4B$28.4B24.5B2.23B
3.4B$29.4B23.29B3.4B$30.4B22.35B$31.4B21.34B$32.4B20.33B$33.4B20.31B$
34.4B19.29B$35.4B18.10B.17B$36.4B17.9B2.18B$37.4B14.2AB2.6B3.15B.B2A$
38.4B12.A.AB4.2B5.15B.BA.A$39.4B11.A13.10B.3B6.A$40.4B9.2A12.7B.2B3.B
7.2A$41.4B21.4B.3B$42.4B19.4B3.B$43.4B6.A10.4B$44.4B5.3A7.4B$45.4B7.A
5.4B$46.4B5.2A4.4B$47.4B4.9B$48.4B5.6B$49.4B2.3BD4B$50.7BD7B$51.6B3D
5B$52.13B$53.10B.B2A$55.3B2AB3.BA.A$55.3B2AB6.A$57.4B6.2A$57.3B$54.AB
.2B$53.A.AB2AB$53.A.ABABAB$50.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$50.A2.A2.2A.4A$52.2A4.A$
58.A.A$59.2A!
This has some implications for when the next signal can follow, though. You could only process signals separated by an even number of ticks.

It would probably be better to extract the gliders from the input signal, and have them get there before the Herschel does -- maybe connecting up to a different 2G blinker recipe:

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 43, rule = LifeHistory
23.2A$23.2A5.A$29.A.A$29.A.A$28.2A.3A$34.A$13.A.A12.2A.3A$14.2A12.2A.
A$14.A$2A$2A2$14.D$14.D$14.D3$22.2A$21.2A$23.A$.C$.C.C$.3C15.2A$3.C
15.2A7$13.3D$13.D$12.3D8$17.2A$16.A2.A$17.2A!
That would reduce the recovery time by quite a bit. Looks like it would still be over 200 ticks, so probably this isn't an improvement over known composite X-to-LWSSes that can match the repeat time of a syringe. Still, it's a nice reminder that more things like this are bound to be out there, waiting to be found --

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