The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 29th, 2015, 12:46 am

simsim314 wrote:H->Qeen bee (qeen be converts to two C on its own)...
I've mentioned elsewhere the old p15 QB-to-2R converter, which works equally well with this conduit:

Code: Select all

x = 82, y = 59, rule = LifeHistory
58.2A$59.A$58.A$58.2A$49.2A8.B$49.A.A7.3B$37.2B11.AB6.6B$36.4B9.2B3.B
2.10B$37.3B6.B2.19B3.2B2.2B$37.4B4.16B2A15BD$35.7B2.17B2A15BDBD$35.8B
.B2D31B3DB$33.13B2D32BD$20.C12.13BD32B$20.3C10.16B.4B5.13B.B$23.C9.
21B5.7B.B$22.2C10.8B.9B$22.7B3.B.7B3.6B20.2A$22.8B.11B3.4B20.A.A$21.
21B27.A$20.23B13.2B10.2A$21.22B11.6B$19.30B3.2A6B2A$14.B.29B2A4BA2BA
4BA2BAB$13.2CB.26B.A2BAB16A$13.2C30B2A4BA2BA4BA2BAB$14.B.33B3.2A6B2A$
16.27B11.6B$16.12B.14B13.2B10.2A$16.13B2.11B27.A$16.12B3.11B3.4B20.A.
A$16.10B6.B.7B3.6B20.2A$16.10B8.8B.9B$15.10B8.21B5.7B.B$15.10B8.16B.
4B5.13B.B$7.2C6.10B8.13BD32B$8.C7.9B8.13B2D32BD$8.C.CB4.9B.2B7.5B2DB.
B2D31B3DB$9.2CB.14B2C6.5BDB2.17B2A15BDBD$11.16B2C8.4B3D.16B2A15BD$11.
14B.2B9.3B3.D2.B2.19B3.2B2.2B$12.13B11.4B9.2B3.B2.10B$11.14B.2B9.2B
11.AB6.6B$9.18B2C20.A.A7.3B$7.18B.B2C20.2A8.B$7.2BC15B2.B30.2A$6.3BCB
C4B.8B33.A$7.2B3C4B2.7B34.A$6.5BC4B2.7B33.2A$5.10B3.7B$4.4B11.7B$4.3B
12.7B$2.4B13.6B$2.2A16.5B$3.A14.6B$3A15.6B$A17.4B$18.2B2CB$20.2C!
I hope a nice variety of stable century-to-X converters will turn up soon. Is there a known P1 conduit that works here, to produce a H-to-2H? A good Spartan Herschel splitter could still possibly be a useful addition for self-constructing circuitry, anyway.

The new loaf-restoring H-to-R (or as shown, H-to-H, an Fx244) is also a really nice addition, though likely to be somewhat eclipsed by the Blockic p120 loop. Congratulations again on all the recent CatForce progress! It's nice having an optional extra glider available in the middle of a conduit, like in the Fx244. Quite a few recent discoveries just have one or more "interior" gliders that get absorbed.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 29th, 2015, 1:29 am

chris_c wrote:...the F117 variant I posted above is more useful than I thought. The initial H->B segment allows some connections to B->X that are not possible with the more usual H->B.
Good Golly, that's an understatement. This turns Guam's old R126 turn into a very workable ambidextrous Spartan Herschel splitter, which is also a transceiver and a merge circuit. That sets I think at least three simultaneous records for compactness, compression and constructibility in those various categories:

Code: Select all

x = 251, y = 125, rule = B3/S23
45bo20bo$44bobo7bo11b3o69b2o$37b2o6bo6b3o14bo67bobo$37b2o12bo16b2o67b
2o$25b2o24b2o$25bo$26b3o103bo$28bo102bobo$77bo53bobo31bo$31b2o42b3o54b
o30b3o$31b2o25b2o15bo65b2o7bo11bo$58b2o15bo65b2o7b3o9b2o$20b2o64bo66bo
$20b2o63bobo64b2o39bo$85bobo104bobo$86bo105bobo$193bo$55b2o108b2o15bo$
55bo109b2o15bo$56b3o123b3o$36b2o20bo125bo$36b2o3$118b2o$118b2o55b2o$
156b2o18bo$156bo16b3o$157b3o13bo$159bo4$123b2o$122bobo$122bo$121b2o$
127b2o$127b2o2$141b2o$125b2o14bobo$124bobo16bo$124bo18b2o$123b2o3$2b2o
$3bo$3o125b2o$o128bo8b2o$129b3o6bo$139b3o$141bo4$122b2o$121bobo$121bo$
120b2o7$130b2o$130b2o7b2o$139bo$137bobo$137b2o3$119b2o$120bo$120bobo$
121b2o3$135b2o$135bobo$137bo$137b2o5$250bo$105bo142b3o$105b3o139bo$
108bo28b2o108b2o$95b2o10b2o28b2o$96bo$96bobo47b2o$97b2o46bobo$145b2o4$
140b2o$139bo2bo$97bo42b2o$97bobo127b2o$97b3o106bo20b2o$99bo10b2o94b3o$
110b2o97bo$106b2o100b2o$107bo$104b3o7b2o62bo$90b2o12bo10bo61bobo$91bo
20b3o62bobo63b2o$88b3o21bo65bo64b2o$88bo116b2o$123b2o80b2o25b2o$123b2o
107b2o$220b2o$220b2o2b2o10bo$224b2o10b3o$239bo$212b2o24b2o$195b2o16bo
12b2o$195bo14b3o6bo6b2o$196b3o11bo7bobo$198bo20bo!
#C [[ ZOOM 2 AUTOSTART STEP 4 ]]
It used to be that a Herschel receiver was the only thing that worked to supply the input to the R126, which seriously limited its usefulness as a G4 emitter. Another great find to round out the month!

(Whew, and I thought last week was plenty exciting enough. It's going to take a while to sort out all the implications of this new G4 transmitter/splitter/merge technology.)

EDIT: Another minor improvement to chalk up to the new H-to-B variant: it allows a rectifier to be placed quite a bit closer to an F117's first natural glider output. A boojum reflector still wins the race in this case, but it has a significantly slower recovery time -- though this whole sample conduit is a bit suspect in that regard, except for maybe a few overclocked periods:

Code: Select all

x = 147, y = 216, rule = LifeHistory
136.2A$135.A2.A$136.2A8$140.3D$141.D$139.3D6$141.D$140.3D$139.D2.2D2$
141.2D$141.2D7$112.2A4.2A$112.2A3.A2.A$118.2A$134.D$134.2D9.A$135.2D
7.A.A$135.D8.A.A$134.D10.A2$113.2A$113.2A4.D16.2A$118.3D15.2A7.2A$
117.D2.2D23.2A10$90.2A4.2A$90.2A3.A2.A$96.2A$112.D$112.2D9.A$113.2D7.
A.A$113.D8.A.A$112.D10.A2$91.2A$91.2A4.D16.2A$96.3D15.2A7.2A$95.D2.2D
23.2A6$136.2A$135.A2.A$136.2A2$68.2A4.2A$68.2A3.A2.A$74.2A$90.D$90.2D
9.A$91.2D7.A.A$91.D8.A.A37.3D$90.D10.A39.D$139.3D$69.2A$69.2A4.D16.2A
$74.3D15.2A7.2A$73.D2.2D23.2A2$141.D$140.3D$139.D2.2D2$57.A83.2D$57.
3A81.2D$60.A$47.2A10.2A$29.2A17.A$30.A17.A.A$17.A11.A19.2A$17.3A9.2A
37.D$20.A47.2D9.A32.2A4.2A$7.2A10.2A48.2D7.A.A31.2A3.A2.A$8.A60.D8.A.
A37.2A$8.A.A57.D10.A54.D$9.2A123.2D9.A$28.D3.2A15.C85.2D7.A.A$28.2D2.
2A15.C.D18.2A63.D8.A.A$29.2D18.3C18.2A7.2A53.D10.A$29.D21.C11.2A14.2A
$28.D34.A49.2A$64.3A46.2A4.D16.2A$9.E56.A51.3D15.2A7.2A$9.E.E105.D2.
2D23.2A$9.3E$11.E10.2A$22.2A$18.2A10.A$19.A9.A.A$16.3A10.A.A$2.2A12.A
13.A$3.A$3A$A89.2A4.2A$90.2A3.A2.A$96.2A$112.D$112.2D9.A$113.2D7.A.A$
113.D8.A.A$112.D10.A2$20.2A69.2A$20.2A69.2A4.D16.2A$96.3D15.2A7.2A$
38.2A55.D2.2D23.2A$38.A.A$40.A$40.2A$9.2A$4.2A2.A2.A$4.A4.A.A$.2A.A5.
A18.2A$2.A.A.2A21.A.A$.A2.A2.A23.A$.2A2.A4.A20.2A35.2A4.2A$6.5A57.2A
3.A2.A$74.2A$5.A.2A81.D$5.2A.A81.2D9.A$91.2D7.A.A$91.D8.A.A$90.D10.A
2$69.2A$69.2A4.D16.2A$74.3D15.2A7.2A$73.D2.2D23.2A6$57.A$57.3A$60.A$
47.2A10.2A$29.2A17.A$30.A17.A.A$17.A11.A19.2A$17.3A9.2A37.D$20.A47.2D
9.A$7.2A10.2A48.2D7.A.A$8.A60.D8.A.A$8.A.A57.D10.A$9.2A$28.D3.2A15.C$
28.2D2.2A15.C.D18.2A$29.2D18.3C18.2A7.2A$29.D21.C11.2A14.2A$28.D34.A$
64.3A$9.E56.A$9.E.E$9.3E$11.E11.2A7.2A$23.A8.2A$24.3A$26.A2$2.2A$3.A$
3A$A$6.A$5.A.A$5.A.A$4.2A.2A16.2A$25.2A$4.2A.2A$5.A.2A34.2A$3.A39.A.A
$3.2A40.A$45.2A2$11.2A$5.2A4.2A$4.A.A27.2A$4.A29.A.A$3.2A31.A$11.2A
23.2A$11.2A3$17.A$16.A.A$17.A!
#C [[ AUTOSTART ZOOM 2 STEP 4 LOOP 800 ]]
EDIT 3/6/2019: Another thing about R126 that I didn't notice, is that the sidesnagger actually makes another of Guam's ambidextrous Herschel transceivers Spartan as well:

Code: Select all

x = 195, y = 149, rule = LifeHistory
147.4B9.2A4.2B$146.4B10.A.A2.5B$145.4B12.2A8B$144.4B14.B.7B$143.4B16.
B.6B$143.4B15.5BA2B$139.B2.5B14.5BABAB$138.2AB.6B14.4BABAB$138.2A8B
14.5BAB$139.2B.6B14.6B.3B$142.7B13.13B$142.8B13.B.10B$142.8B8.2A4.14B
$141.8B9.A5.14B$141.10B4.BA.A4.16B$140.14B.B2A5.15B$139.17B8.14B$139.
17B7.14B$136.B.17B7.13B$135.2A19B6.13B$135.2AB.19B4.14B$136.B2.22B.B
3D9B$140.17BD6BD8B.3B$141.9B.4BDBD6B3D6B2.2A$142.8B.4B3D12B.B3.A$142.
8B.4BD15B5.3A$142.9B.18B8.A$140.2B.10B6.11B2.2A$139.2A14B3.9B4.B2AB$
139.2A15B.11B3.3B$140.20B.7B4.B.B$143.16B2.6B3.6B.B$143.10B.4B3.7B.2B
2A4B2A$142.15B4.9BA2BAB.B2A$143.13B4.11BABAB2.B$144.11B6.11BAB$145.4B
.4B6.14B$144.4B.4B7.15BA$143.4B.4B8.14BA.A$142.4B.4B9.5B2A7B.2A$141.
4B.4B10.5B2A4B$140.4B.4B11.11B$139.4B.4B12.12BA$138.4B.4B15.8B2.3A$
137.4B.4B16.7B6.A$136.4B.4B17.6B6.2A$135.4B.4B17.7B$134.4B.4B12.2A5.
7B$133.4B.4B13.A.A3.8B$132.4B.4B16.A3.8B$131.4B.4B17.2A.9B$130.4B.4B
20.11B$129.4B.4B21.12B$128.4B.4B22.12B$127.4B.4B24.10B6.2A$126.4B.4B
23.11B7.A$125.4B.4B24.14B.BA.A$124.4B.4B24.2A13B.B2A$51.B10.2A5.2A52.
4B.4B25.2A15B$49.5B8.A5.B2AB42.2A6.4B.4B27.B.15B$49.6B4.BA.A6.2B4.2A
36.B2AB4.4B.4B30.14B$49.6B2.B.B2A6.2B4.A.A2.2A33.3B3.4B.4B32.11B.B2A$
47.13B5.B.5B2.BA3.A33.B.B3.4B.4B33.9B3.BA.A$47.12B5.2AB.2B2A5B3.A31.
10B.4B33.8B8.A$47.14B3.2A3BA2BA4B2.2A29.11B.4B34.7B9.2A$46.16B3.2B.BA
BA5B2.B8.2A19.11B.4B34.11B$39.3B4.15B.B5.2BA9B7.A.A17.12B.4B35.12B$
38.7B.19B4.12B6.BA17.12B.4B36.12B$38.5B2AB.18B5.12B2.B3.2B15.9B2A6B
38.11B$37.5BA2BA19B.2B.21B2.B10.10BA2BA4B.B35.4B.4B3DB$37.6B2A15BD15B
2A16B8.12B2A9B33.2A4.4BD2B$38.20BDBD15B2A17B6.6B2A17B33.A4.2B3D2B$39.
2B.6B.9B3D34B4.8B2A16B31.3A6.6B$39.B.8B2.2B.4BD36B2.29B30.A8.7B$38.2A
B.6B7.71B39.8B$37.A.A3.B15.21B5.4B.34B42.8B$37.2A19.9B4.B.7B5.39B42.
9B$49.A8.10B19.31B2.B.B42.6B.4B$49.3A6.6B.4B20.28B2.3B43.7B.4B$52.A4.
2B3D2B2.4B20.27B2.B2AB43.6B2.4B$51.2A4.4BD2B3.4B21.24B4.2A44.6B3.4B$
51.4B.4B3DB2.6B23.17B.B.B2A48.6B4.4B9.A$53.11B.8B24.9B.6B2.BA.A46.8B
4.4B6.3A$52.12B.4B.4B25.6B5.2B6.A45.8B6.4B4.A$52.23B24.8B11.2A44.9B6.
4B3.2A$52.11B.12B24.5B2A57.9B7.8B$41.B9.9B3.14B25.3B2A56.10B8.5B$39.
4B5.2B.22B.4B25.2B58.3B2A5B9.4B$38.7B2.27B.4B23.4B51.2A3.4B2A5B8.5B$
36.2B2A35B.4B22.B2AB52.A3.11B7.8B$36.BA2BA35B.4B22.2A53.A.A12B6.4B2.B
2A$37.B2A37B.4B77.2A2.8B7.4B4.A$37.4B.31B.4B.4B81.7B6.4B6.3A$38.2B2.
30B3.4B.4B81.6B5.4B9.A$43.21B.3B2.B5.4B.4B80.6B4.4B$45.B4.11B3.4B9.4B
.4B78.7B3.4B$44.3B5.8B4.B2AB10.4B.4B78.12B$43.B2AB6.6B6.2A12.4B.4B70.
A6.11B$44.2A9.2B23.4B.4B6.2A61.3A4.10B$56.2B23.4B.4B4.B2AB51.A11.A2.
10B.B$55.B2AB23.4B.4B3.3B36.A15.3A8.2A3.8B.2BA$56.2A25.4B.4B3.B.B33.
3A18.A7.15BA.A$84.4B.10B31.A20.2A3.B5.12B.BA$85.4B.11B29.2A19.8B2.13B
$86.4B.11B19.2A8.B21.20B$87.4B.12B17.A.A7.3B19.20B$88.4B.12B17.AB6.6B
16.19B.B2A$89.17B15.2B3.B2.10B11.21B.BA.A$88.B.18B10.B2.19B3.2B2.24B
4.A$86.23B8.16B2A15BC14B4.4B2.2A$85.17B2A6B6.17B2A15BCBC4B.6B7.2A$86.
16B2A8B4.34B3C4B2.B.5B5.A$85.29B2.36BC4B7.2A6.3A$85.71B8.A9.A$87.34B.
4B5.13B.4B16.3A$87.39B5.7B.B5.3B19.A$88.B.B2.31B19.4B$89.3B2.28B21.2A
$88.B2AB2.27B23.A$89.2A4.24B22.3A$93.2AB.B.17B25.A$92.A.AB2.6B.9B$92.
A6.2B5.6B$91.2A11.8B$104.2A5B$104.2A3B$106.2B$105.4B$105.B2AB$106.2A!

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Kazyan
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » April 29th, 2015, 1:35 am

I'm CatForcing a century as best I can. It's a stubborn object, but something's got to give. Maybe when I figure out GPU acceleration with Linux and an Intel machine.

So many converters that dead-end at a currently-unusable century...a versatile century acceptor is quite called for now.
Tanner Jacobi

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 29th, 2015, 2:05 am

Scorbie wrote:Sorry to ask this again, but is this known? This can be combined with the syringe to make a reasonable reflector.
Apologies, this deserved a quicker reply. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen it before. The only dependent H-to-Gs that I can recall (suppressing the Herschel's first natural glider) are the old standard H-to-Gs #8 and #9.

So, yes, this allows for a syringe variant that uses just a couple of standard eater2s, or various eater2 variants could be substituted in -- the point being, no big ugly welds at all, and no oversized F166 or Lx200 tripling the size of the syringe:

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 76, rule = B3/S23
50bo$49bobo$49bobo$47b3ob2o11bo$46bo15b3o$21b2o11bo12b3ob2o8bo$21b2o
10bobo13bob2o8b2o$33bobo$32b2ob3o$38bo$32b2ob3o$32b2obo6$67b2o$29b2o
13b2o21b2o$29b2o13b2o$14b2o$13bo2bo57bo$12bob2o56b3o$12bo58bo$11b2o58b
2o$26b2o$26bo$27b3o49b2o$3b2o24bo50bo$4bo75bob2o$2bo69b2o4b3o2bo$2b5o
14b2o49b2o3bo3b2o$7bo13bo55b4o$4b3o12bobo41b2o15bo$3bo15b2o41bobo12b3o
$3b4o55bo13bo$b2o3bo3b2o49b2o14b5o$o2b3o4b2o69bo$2obo75bo$3bo75b2o$3b
2o3$11b2o$12bo$9b3o$9bo48bo$58bobo$58b2o5$40bo$40b3o$43bo$42b2o7$52b2o
$45b2o5bobo$45b2o7bo$54b2o2$41bo$40bobob2o$40bobobobo$37b2obobobobo2bo
$37bo2bo2b2ob4o$39b2o4bo$45bobo$46b2o!
#C [[ AUTOSTART STEP 4 ZOOM 5 ]]
Unfortunately it ends up being a color-preserving turner. A color-changer would have been nice. Looks like it might save nine rows on an occasional Snark turn, though... and more importantly for the gun collection and similar timing-adjustment uses, it will change the even-odd parity of a glider, even if it doesn't change the color. Compare the yellow gliders below, both shown at T=200:
x = 115, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
22.2A58.2D$22.A.A57.D.D$24.A4.2A53.D4.2D$20.4A.2A2.A2.A47.4D.2D2.D2.D
$20.A2.A.A.A.A.2A47.D2.D.D.D.D.2D$22.BABABA.A52.BDBDBD.D$23.B2ABA.A
53.B2DBD.D$24.2B.BA55.2B.BD$23.3B57.3B10.A$14.2A6.4B48.2D6.4B9.A.A$
15.A6.B2A3B47.D6.B2D3B7.A.A$15.A.AB3.B2A3B47.D.DB3.B2D3B5.3A.2A11.A$
16.2AB.10B46.2DB.10B2.A4.B10.3A$18.13B36.2A9.2BA10B2.3AB2AB7.A$18.14B
34.B2AB8.BABA10B3.A.2AB.4B2.2A$18.15B34.3B8.BABA11B6.10B$20.8B2.4B32.
B.B9.2AB3A4B2.4B5.8B$20.6B5.4B31.5B8.5BAB5.4B4.11B$19.9B4.4B30.6B6.2A
B3A4B4.5B2.12B$18.4B4.2A5.4B29.8B4.2ABA4.2D5.18B$17.4B5.A7.4B29.14B5.
D5.19B$16.4B7.3A5.4B26.15B7.3D2.17B$15.4B10.A6.4B24.15B10.D2.17B$14.
4B19.4B23.15B4.3B3.B2.18B$13.4B21.4B21.17B.B.2B2.23B3.B$12.4B23.4B20.
48B.B2A$11.4B25.4B18.13B2A13B2A11BE9B2A$10.4B27.4B16.14B2A13B2A12BE9B
$9.4B29.4B14.2AB3.36B3E5B.3B$8.4B31.4B12.A2.A4.43B$7.4B33.4B10.A.2A5.
6B3.B2.2B2.26B$6.4B35.4B9.A7.6B13.13B3.8B$5.4B37.4B7.2A6.9B14.9B8.5B$
4.4B39.4B13.4B4.2A15.7B11.4B$3.4B41.4B11.4B5.A21.B13.4B$2.A3B43.BEBE
9.A3B7.3A33.4B$.B2AB46.2E8.B2AB10.A34.3B$BABA47.E8.BABA47.B!
[[ VIEWONLY HEIGHT 240 ZOOM 5 ]]
Congratulations on the find! Seems as if I've been saying that a lot lately, but it's certainly worth saying it again for this... And there's still another day left in April.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » April 29th, 2015, 6:13 am

dvgrn wrote: is also a really nice addition, though likely to be somewhat eclipsed by the Blockic p120 loop.
Actually the loop came out as is from the CatForce search. The other stuff was kinda tricky search.
Kazyan wrote:I'm CatForcing a century as best I can. It's a stubborn object
Yep... getting the same feeling (doing the same search).

EDIT@Scorbie - very nice finding.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simeks » April 29th, 2015, 5:19 pm

A transparent version of Scorbies new H->G with pretty good clearence on both sides:

Code: Select all

x = 80, y = 76, rule = B3/S23
obo$b2o$bo26$28bobo$29b2o$29bo15$71bo$70bobo$70bobo$69b2ob2o2$29b2o38b
2ob2o$29b2o8b2o28b2obobo$39bo2b2o30bo$40b2o2bo28b2ob2obo$43bobo30bob2o
$40b2obo2bo29bo$40b2o2bobo28b2o$43b2ob2o5$75b2o$37b2o13b2o21b2o$37b2o
13b2o$22b2o$21bo2bo$20bob2o$20bo$19b2o$34b2o$34bo$35b3o$23b2o12bo$22bo
bo$24bo!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » April 29th, 2015, 6:09 pm

I was trying to spartanise Scorbie catalyst. And although this solution can't work with syringe it looks at least as new H->G

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
16.C$14.3C$13.C$3.C9.2C$3.3C4.5B$6.C3.3B6.2C$5.2C2.5B4.B2CB$5.3B.5B5.
2B$7.9B2.2B$6.15B9.C$6.16B6.3C$5.18B4.C$5.19B3.2C$6.23B5.B$7.20B5.5B$
6.23B2.6B$5.31B2C$4.30B.B2C$5.29B2.B$6.28B$7.28B$8.27B$8.27B$9.23B$
10.20B$11.15B$14.13B$13.15B$13.16B$13.17B$13.16B$15.13B$14.4B.2B2C5B$
13.4B2.2B2C3B$12.4B2.8B$11.4B4.8B$10.4B5.3BC4B$9.4B7.BCBC3B$8.4B8.2CB
2C2B$7.4B.D7.BC2BCB$6.4B.D.D6.BC3BC$5.4B2.D.D6.BC.2B$4.4B.3D.2D$3.4B.
D$2.4B3.3D.2D$.4B6.D.2D$4B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Scorbie » April 29th, 2015, 6:40 pm

simeks wrote:A transparent version of Scorbies new H->G
Wow.that's really nice!
simsim314 wrote:I was trying to spartanise Scorbie catalyst. And although this solution can't work with syringe it looks at least as new H->G
Yeah. This is what I intended to find first, so that the full reflector would have only one eater2. I haven't searched too thoroughly, but tweaking one of the intermediate results did give an acceptable conduit, so I posted it right away. So there might be some possibility of spartanization.

And congrats with the seemingly new conduit!
Best wishes to you, Scorbie

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 29th, 2015, 7:41 pm

simsim314 wrote:I was trying to spartanise Scorbie catalyst. And although this solution can't work with syringe it looks at least as new H->G...
That's the old HtoG#8, with #9 as an Lx200-based variant. Same old familiar glider -- there are a lot of ways to suppress that active reaction, I seem to recall, starting with truncations of the F166 conduit and working back.

Once the H-to-G recognizer script is ready for prime time, it will be trivial to select an H-to-G and get the statistics on each output glider, to find out if it's been seen before. There's not that much work left, but unfortunately I have no more time for writing Python this week.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » April 30th, 2015, 2:46 am

This one redefines uselessness. 296 ticks recovery H->G that allows G->G lane shift:

Code: Select all

x = 105, y = 126, rule = B3/S23
29b2o$29bo$27bobo$27b2o4$19b2o$19b2o16bo$2o33b3o$obo31bo$b2o31b2o4$43b
2o$43b2o2$6b2o$7bo$4b3o$4bo8$16b2o$16b2o$28b2o$28b2o$15bo$14bobo$15bo$
12b3o$12bo$19bo$18bobo$18bobo$16b3ob2o$15bo$16b3ob2o$18bob2o2$28b2o$
28b2o7b2o$37bo$29bo5bobo$28b2o5b2o$28bobo3$15b2o$15b2o5$31bo$30bobo$
30bobo$31bo$32b3o$34bo58$103bo$102b2o$102bobo!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Scorbie » April 30th, 2015, 2:55 am

simsim314 wrote:This one redefines uselessness. 296 ticks recovery H->G that allows G->G lane shift:
What a transparent block. That one takes a long time to recover.
I like the twit eater. Maybe that could be complementary to the normal eater? (by being expensive but farther away)
Best wishes to you, Scorbie

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » April 30th, 2015, 3:55 am

OK finally a more or less normal spartan-ish (has tub with tail) reflector (with 211 ticks recovery):

Code: Select all

x = 83, y = 107, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o7$36bo$34b3o$33bo$33b2o2$4b2o$4b2o$42b2o$42b2o13$15b2o$
15b2o$27b2o$27b2o$14bo$13bobo$14bo$11b3o$11bo$18bo$17bobo$17bobo$15b3o
b2o$14bo$15b3ob2o$17bob2o2$27b2o$27b2o7b2o$36bo$28bo5bobo$27b2o5b2o$
27bobo3$14b2o$14b2o5$30bo$29bobo$29bobo$30bo$31b3o$33bo37$80b2o$80bobo
$80bo!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 30th, 2015, 8:44 am

simsim314 wrote:OK finally a more or less normal spartan-ish (has tub with tail) reflector (with 211 ticks recovery)...
The trick from here works fine to get rid of the tub-with-tail, so that just leaves the eater2. It's still a color-preserving turn, though.

Code: Select all

x = 83, y = 107, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o7$36bo$34b3o$33bo$33b2o2$4b2o$4b2o$42b2o$42b2o15$27b2o$
13b2o12b2o$14bo$14bobo$15b2o3$18bo$17bobo$17bobo$15b3ob2o$14bo$15b3ob
2o$17bob2o2$27b2o$27b2o7b2o$36bo$34bobo$27b3o4b2o$27bo$28bo2$14b2o$14b
2o5$30bo$29bobo$29bobo$30bo$31b3o$33bo37$81bo$80b2o$80bobo!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » April 30th, 2015, 5:45 pm

Seems to me new Lx262 (or H->B with many B->X variations):

Code: Select all

x = 75, y = 53, rule = LifeHistory
41.2B$39.5B$37.7B$36.9B12.2C$36.15B6.C$30.2C5.16B.BC.C$31.C5.16B.B2C$
31.C.CB2.18B$32.2CB.19B$34.21B$34.21B$18.B.7B7.23B$12.B.13B4.B2.B.22B
9.C$4.55B6.3C$.2B.BD21B2D31B4.C$2C3B3D18B2D33B3.2C$2CB.BDBD15B2C2B2D
37B5.B$.B2.3BD15B2C3BD35B5.5B$5.6B2.2B3.11B.36B2.6B$19.10B3.41B2C$22.
6B7.B2.33B.B2C$24.3B11.33B2.B$26.B13.2B.28B$26.2C11.4B.28B$27.C11.B2C
B2.27B$24.3C13.2C3.27B$24.C21.23B$47.20B$48.15B$51.13B$50.15B$50.16B$
50.17B$50.16B$52.13B$51.4B.2B2C5B$50.4B2.2B2C3B$49.4B2.8B$48.4B4.8B$
47.4B5.3BC4B$46.4B7.BCBC3B$45.4B8.2CB2C2B$44.4B9.BC2BCB$43.4B10.BC3BC
$42.4B11.BC.2B$41.4B$40.4B$39.4B$38.4B$37.4B$36.4B$35.4B$34.4B!
@dvgrn - I think we won the battle (made spartan variation) but lose the war (there are already stable "almost spartan" reflectors with recovery ~200). I think we still need to search for much faster spartan reflector to make it useful.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 30th, 2015, 6:10 pm

simsim314 wrote:@dvgrn - I think we won the battle (made spartan variation) but lose the war (there are already stable "almost spartan" reflectors with recovery ~200). I think we still need to search for much faster spartan reflector to make it useful.
Yes, I was just thinking that a slow-salvo construction for the new reflector will still be just about as expensive as for an old standard Silver reflector (because we have to pre-build the seed constellation for the eater2, then do whatever cleanup is necessary, and build the rest of the still lifes.)

It would certainly be nice to find something about as small and simple as the semi-Snark. I suppose it's too much to hope for, that CatForce might be able to locate a reaction that restores a sacrificial still life placed in the eater2's location?

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
5bo$4bobo$5b2o2$13b2o$13b2o7b2o$22bo$20bobo$13b3o4b2o$13bo$14bo2$2o$2o
5$16bo$15bobo$15bobo$16bo$17b3o$19bo!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » April 30th, 2015, 6:39 pm

Just wondering why don't we use something like that, it's known conduit and recovery time = 115.

Code: Select all

x = 129, y = 64, rule = LifeHistory
83.C$81.3C$80.C$80.2C$68.C8.5B$68.3C5.4B$71.C3.7B$61.C8.2C2.9B$38.2C
11.C7.3C5.B2.3B.11B10.C21.2C$37.B2CB9.C.C5.C7.3B3.13B10.3C17.2B2CB$
38.3B9.C.C5.2C6.18B2C12.C16.4B$37.B.B9.2C.3C4.B6.18B2C11.2C16.6B$37.
5B8.B4.C2.3B4.18B.B12.4B15.5B$37.6B6.2CB3C3.4B2.18B17.3B14.6B$37.8B4.
2C.C5.5B.20B15.4B13.7B$38.13B8.26B2.7B.B4.4B12.6B$36.13B11.25B.14B.4B
10.7B$35.15B12.50B4.6B$35.15B10.B2.50B2.7B$34.17B.B5.55B2.7B$34.55B2C
22B.9B$33.9B2A2B2C13B2C26B2C32B$32.9BABA2B2C13B2C33B3.2B2.20B4.B$31.
2CB3.6BA39B2.10B11.19B.B2C$30.C2.C4.45B3.6B16.19B2C$29.C.2C5.6B3.B2.
2B2.28B5.3B19.17B.B$29.C7.6B13.4B2.7B.13B4.B20.17B$28.2C6.9B17.6B2.
13B3.2C20.17B$35.4B4.2C19.3B3.11B5.C19.2CB.15B$34.4B5.C21.B4.9B8.3C
15.C.CB4.12B$33.4B7.3C24.8B10.C15.C9.11B$32.4B10.C24.8B25.2C8.13B$31.
4B36.6B37.12B$30.4B81.10B$29.4B83.9B$28.4B84.9B$27.4B85.9B$26.4B87.5B
$25.4B88.4B$24.4B89.4B$23.4B89.4B$22.4B89.4B$21.4B$20.4B$19.4B$18.4B$
17.4B$16.4B$15.4B$14.4B$13.2A2B$12.2B2A$11.2BAB$10.4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$
6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.4B$4B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Scorbie » April 30th, 2015, 6:43 pm

dvgrn wrote:Yes, I was just thinking that a slow-salvo construction for the new reflector will still be just about as expensive as for an old standard Silver reflector (because we have to pre-build the seed constellation for the eater2, then do whatever cleanup is necessary, and build the rest of the still lifes.)
Wait. That makes a lot of changes to my search direction. I thought a sgr with only one eater2 would be comparable to silver's reflector, so I was searching for spartan catalysts that preserve the block and hampers the fng from the b. If even that is more expensive, then I shall search for other things.
Best wishes to you, Scorbie

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 30th, 2015, 8:57 pm

simsim314 wrote:Just wondering why don't we use something like that, it's known conduit and recovery time = 115...
Maybe we should. That's the line of investigation that chris_c was following a couple of weeks ago. Cost for the circuit you posted is 14 simple objects + beehive-with-tail + eater2. One based on the Lx200 might have a recovery time as low as 94 ticks -- should be 90 except for the boat-bit cleanup -- but it would need a few more still lifes. The cheapest options all seem to produce 0-degree or 180-degree turners and splitters:

Code: Select all

#C With apologies for the gratuitously damaged eater...
x = 144, y = 127, rule = B3/S23
92bo$90b3o$89bo$79b2o8b2o$71bo8bo$48b2o11bo7b3o8bobo$48b2o10bobo5bo12b
2o$60bobo5b2o25b2o$59b2ob3o30b2o$65bo2b2o$59b2ob3o3bobo$59b2obo6bo$95b
2o$95b2o5$56b2o13b2o$56b2o13b2o$41b2o$40bo2bo$39bob2o$39bo$38b2o$53b2o
$53bo$54b3o$56bo4$77b2o49bo$37b3o38bo49b3o$39bo38bobo50bo$38bo40b2o49b
2o4$79b2o$79b2o5$104b2o$104b2o$84b2o$78b2o3bo2bo55b2o$78b2o4b2o56b2o3$
101b2o$101bo19b2o$102b3o15bobo$104bo15bo$14b2o103b2o$13bobo$15bo6$9bo$
8bobo$7bo2bo$8bo2$3b2o$2bo2bo17b2o$3bobo17bo15bo$4bo16bobo15b3o$6b3o
12b2o19bo$7b2o32b2o3$2o56b2o4b2o$2o55bo2bo3b2o$58b2o$22bo15b2o$20bobo
15b2o$20b3o$20bo3$63b2o$63b2o3$30b2o$30bo32b2o$10b2o19b3o29bobo$10b2o
21bo31bo$65b2o4$87bo$87b3o$90bo$89b2o$104b2o$47b2o55bo$46bobo52b2obo$
46bo53bo2bo$45b2o54b2o$71b2o13b2o$71b2o13b2o5$47b2o$47b2o$74bo6bob2o$
73bobo3b3ob2o$74b2o2bo$47b2o30b3ob2o$47b2o25b2o5bobo$61b2o12bo5bobo10b
2o$61bobo8b3o7bo11b2o$63bo8bo$53b2o8b2o$54bo$51b3o$51bo!
#C [[ AUTOSTART STEP 8 ZOOM 3 ]]
Quite possibly this could be competitive with the right B-to-G converter. What do we have in that department, that might make a cheap 90-degree turner? None of the three B-to-Gs in Calcyman's conduit collection quite work in this context.

-----------------------------------------

Anyway... from chris_c's trial patterns, an eater2 costs about four common objects (seed = traffic light + half-traffic-light + beehive + loaf) and a beehive-with-tail costs two common objects (seed = half-TL + loaf), plus a dozen or so gliders for cleanup. That adds up to twenty common objects to build in all, plus or minus a few cleanup gliders -- roughly the same cost as the Silver reflector. (There's a more recent eater2 seed, which turns out to be just about the same cost -- five common objects instead of four, but a lot of them are super-cheap blocks, and very little cleanup is needed.)

The SE Silver reflector recipe in the linear GoL propagator pattern is just about 280 gliders. If that's a representative sample, we can probably build circuitry at a cost of about 14 gliders per still life -- maybe a little less, as the recipes get better. So maybe we can agree that new constructible reflectors will be really interesting if they take significantly less than 280 gliders to slow-salvo construct, starting from a block -- under 200 gliders, let's say, bonus points for under 150, and super extra bonus points for under 100.

Big disclaimer: I'm just making up these metrics out of thin air, pretty much. This all leaves aside, for example, the question of whether a syringe reflector is worth more because of the greatly improved compression rating. I guess it's only worth more if all the other circuitry that it's connected to has an equally high compression rating -- so then we'd do the cost calculation on all of the circuitry at once.

With a lot of experience with slow-salvo constructions, maybe we'll be able to come up with some better estimation tricks. A constellation that's spread over a larger area will take a few more gliders to build on average. Each object that's within two cells of another object will tend to cost a few gliders more -- unless the two objects can be built in one step with a constellation construction recipe, in which case it will be a few gliders cheaper instead (!). Eaters actually cost maybe two gliders more than blocks or blinkers, maybe one glider more than boats or loaves, and if they have to be built around a corner behind something else they add up to about the same as a beehive-with-tail... etc., etc.

And I still have absolutely no idea how exactly the cost calculation will change when someone starts programming two-armed universal constructors. I'm really looking forward to seeing how quickly a syringe could be built with slow glider pairs from a syringe-based universal constructor...!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » April 30th, 2015, 9:14 pm

Scorbie wrote:Wait. That makes a lot of changes to my search direction. I thought a sgr with only one eater2 would be comparable to silver's reflector, so I was searching for spartan catalysts that preserve the block and hampers the fng from the b. If even that is more expensive, then I shall search for other things.
Well... "comparable to Silver's reflector" seems to be just about right, based on the longer analysis posted above. What you're looking for won't be more expensive, but it might not be less expensive either.

So if you can find something that's eater2 plus beehive-with-tail plus six to eight small still lifes, then (at least according to my wild guesses) that's going to be a significant improvement over a Silver reflector -- especially if it has a small bounding box, fast recovery time, and/or multiple possible glider outputs.

Nine or ten Spartan still lifes might still be a small improvement. A dozen still lifes probably gets you back to just "comparable". Again, these are just my rough guesses. The only thing we know for sure is that one orientation of Silver reflector costs less than 280 gliders... and that recipe was assembled by hand, with no particularly impressive attempts at optimization. No doubt there are equivalent recipes with less than 250 gliders -- 12 gliders per still life or thereabouts.

Maybe it makes sense to not search near the streetlight too much longer (i.e., where the syringe variants are) and wander off into the surrounding darkness instead, in hopes of stumbling on a new mechanism that doesn't need any eater2s at all...!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Scorbie » May 1st, 2015, 12:01 am

dvgrn wrote:Anyway... from chris_c's trial patterns, an eater2 costs about four common objects (seed = traffic light + half-traffic-light + beehive + loaf) and a beehive-with-tail costs two common objects (seed = half-TL + loaf), plus a dozen or so gliders for cleanup. That adds up to twenty common objects to build in all, plus or minus a few cleanup gliders -- roughly the same cost as the Silver reflector. (There's a more recent eater2 seed, which turns out to be just about the same cost -- five common objects instead of four, but a lot of them are super-cheap blocks, and very little cleanup is needed.)
Well, about the eater2, we aren't investigating the full search space, as the eater2s in the soups have to be strict still lifes, while there are other (probably cheaper) pseudo still life variants. However, I'm skeptical if they will be cheaper than three gliders...

I'm not an expert in slow salvo tech, and I'm not sure if a G2H is really necessary. Specifically what components are needed in slow salvo construction?

Wait: the reflector I found has two eater2s, a beehive with tail, and six still lifes. Isn't that an improvement?
Best wishes to you, Scorbie

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 1st, 2015, 12:40 am

Scorbie wrote:Well, about the eater2, we aren't investigating the full search space, as the eater2s in the soups have to be strict still lifes, while there are other (probably cheaper) pseudo still life variants. However, I'm skeptical if they will be cheap enough.
Ah, that's right -- wildmyron outlined a way to add pseudo-still-life eater2s to an apgsearch exceptions list. But it would take quite a long run (with an old pre-1.0 apgsearch that doesn't report to Catagolue, presumably) before any of those variants would be likely to show up -- and longer still before they'd start showing up on the edges of their construction envelopes.
Scorbie wrote:And I'm not an expert in slow salvo tech, and I'm not sure if a G2H is really necessary. Specifically what components are needed in slow salvo construction?
Well, it's true that it's not necessary -- or rather, we have G-to-Hs already, but they look suspiciously like Silver reflectors. A small Spartan G-to-H would certainly be nice, though. Imagine something like chris_c's early blueprint for a quadratic-growth replicator, but with the eight Silver reflectors replaced by syringe-sized Spartan G-to-2Gs. Half as many still lifes would mean a much shorter construction recipe, and therefore a much smaller pattern.

-- We'll also need to add quite a bit more circuitry to copy the signals in the loops, after the construction stage is done, and guide the resulting gliders into the child loops. More compact circuitry options will make it easier to solve those timing problems, and will (probably) increase the odds that the quadratic-replicator project will actually get completed sometime... simsim314's and chris_c's recent discoveries are definitely good steps in the right direction.
Scorbie wrote:Wait: the reflector I found has two eater2s, a beehive with tail, and six still lifes. Isn't that an improvement?
Quite possibly, yes. 6sL + (4-5sL equivalent eater2)*2 + (2-3sL equivalent BHWT) + ~15-20 cleanup gliders is... maybe equivalent to constructing 17 to 20 common still lifes. That could be a really bad estimate -- could be wrong in either direction -- but that's about what it looks like so far.

So until an actual recipe for all four orientations is complete, it doesn't look like a huge improvement -- maybe 5% or 10% fewer gliders, 15% at the most but I'll believe that when I see it. Guess I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for something closer to a 50% reduction.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 1st, 2015, 12:43 am

Another possible target for a search: have any B-heptomino outputs showed up recently that are just slightly imperfect -- a block or other small still life left about ten steps directly behind, or anywhere along a diagonal line from there?

Guam's old BFx157 conduit is impressively prolific in terms of useful glider outputs, but it still seems to be tricky to get the initial B-heptomino in there with only Spartan conduits:

Code: Select all

x = 158, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
14bo16bo38bo16bo$14b3o13bobo20b2o15b3o13bobo20b2o$17bo13bo20bobo18bo
13bo20bobo$5b2o9b2o35bo7b2o9b2o35bo$6bo55bo$6bobo53bobo$7b2o54b2o7$6b
2o34b2o18b2o34b2o$6b2o34b2o11b2o5b2o34b2o11b2o$55b2o54b2o$123b2o$123bo
bo$125bo$125b2o2$27b2o54b2o71bo$14b2o11b2o5b2o34b2o11b2o5b2o63bobo$14b
2o18b2o34b2o18b2o63bobo$156bo$12bo115b2o$12b2o114b2o$2o11b2o$2o11bo$
12bo$35b2o54b2o$34bobo53bobo$34bo55bo$25bo7b2o9b2o35bo7b2o9b2o$24bobo
18bo13bo20bobo18bo13bo$25b2o15b3o13bobo20b2o15b3o13bobo$42bo16bo38bo
16bo!
-- It can be done with no still lifes larger than eight bits, though, so maybe it's time to fish around in Catagolue for edge-of-envelope recipes for a few more of these potentially useful still lifes.

Simsim314's new BLx46 conduit doesn't quite do the trick; there's a 1hd overlap with an unstoppable output glider, which has to be reset or pre-set by a spare glider from somewhere. And chris_c's new H58Bb doesn't change anything -- there's always a 2hd overlap with the key eater above the input Herschel.

--------------------------------------

I'd like to start giving all these conduits specific short names, along the lines of the examples above -- "BFx157" and "BRx46" and "H58Bb". If and when other conduits are discovered with input the same as output, maybe they can borrow the F/Fx/L/Lx/R/Rx/B/Bx syntax from Herschel conduits, and just have a standard prefix as in Calcyman's elementary conduit collection. Herschels are the default, so a prefix "H" can be omitted -- but if it's not a Herschel conduit, we just give the standard one- or two-letter designator first.

"H58Bc" is a little harder to explain. The F117 conduit contains the original 58-tick H-to-B converter, so I'd like to call that variant "H58B" or "H58Ba", following a tradition started by Karel Suhajda in Hersrch of naming variants with lowercase letter suffixes. Then chris_c's new discovery is the "c" variant.

We can't use F, L, R, B orientations so easily in general when the end object is different from the start object, so the syntax in these cases is just {start object}{number of ticks}{end object}{variant letter}.

-- Well, maybe we could define a standard orientation for Herschels and B-heptominos, come to think of it, or any other active reaction that has an obvious direction of travel. Let's say the natural B-to-H transition through empty space is "BF20H". Then the F117 conduit would become "HFx58Ba" followed by "BFx59H" (otherwise known as Conduit 1).

Does that work, or is it going to be too complicated to be usable? I'd like to start using shorthand identifiers like BFx157 and BRx46, but not if it's just going to confuse everybody except for me.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Scorbie » May 1st, 2015, 1:25 am

dvgrn wrote:So until an actual recipe for all four orientations is complete, it doesn't look like a huge improvement -- maybe 5% or 10% fewer gliders, 15% at the most but I'll believe that when I see it. Guess I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for something closer to a 50% reduction.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I'll just crop the search results and see if there's any spartan solutions and move on. But, as you said, I think this will likely be a tentative solution before the advent of the spartan SGR.
Best wishes to you, Scorbie

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » May 1st, 2015, 5:36 am

Although not the promised G->H, and yet G6->R and G13->R (using modified Guam's G4):

Code: Select all

x = 131, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
41.CBC$40.B2CB$39.3BC$38.4B83.CBC$37.4B83.B2CB$28.2C6.4B83.3BC$27.B2C
B4.4B83.4B$28.3B3.4B83.4B$27.B.B3.4B75.2C6.4B$26.10B2.CBC70.B2CB4.4B$
24.11B2.B2CB71.3B3.4B$23.11B2.3BC71.B.B3.4B$C20.12B2.4B71.10B$3C17.
13B.4B70.11B$3.C15.18B70.11B$2.2C.2B10.20B47.C20.12B9.CBC$2.6B8.23B
45.3C17.13B8.B2CB$4.5B6.6B2C17B47.C15.18B3.3BC$3.3B2DB4.8B2C17B5.2C
39.2C.2B10.20B2.4B$3.2B2D2B2.23B2C4B5.C40.6B8.26B$3.3BD26BC2BC2B3.BC.
C42.5B6.6B2C18B$4.30B2C5B.B2C42.3B2DB4.8B2C17B5.2C$4.35B2C2B44.2B2D2B
2.23B2C4B5.C$4.28B.5BC2BCB44.3BD26BC2BC2B3.BC.C$5.26B3.5BCBCB45.30B2C
5B.B2C$5.26B3.6BC2B45.35B2C2B$6.24B6.8B44.28B.5BC2BCB$9.17B.B.B2C4.8B
45.26B3.5BCBCB$11.9B.6B2.BC.C5.5B46.26B3.6BC2B$13.6B5.2B6.C5.4B48.24B
6.8B$13.8B11.2C5.5B49.17B.B.B2C4.8B$14.5B2C21.2C51.9B.6B2.BC.C5.5B$
16.3B2C21.C54.6B5.2B6.C5.4B$17.2B24.3C51.8B11.2C5.5B$16.4B25.C52.5B2C
21.2C$16.B2CB80.3B2C21.C$17.2C82.2B24.3C$100.4B25.C$100.B2CB$101.2C!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 1st, 2015, 12:39 pm

simsim314 wrote:Although not the promised G->H, and yet G6->R and G13->R (using modified Guam's G4)...
Interesting, and unexpected! This is a strange-looking alteration of the old Herschel receiver... it also allows 90-degree glider inputs to reset the circuit, no matter if they're same-color or different-color gliders (left and right in the pattern below, respectively).
x = 124, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
51.C69.C$50.BC.C66.BC.C$49.2B2C66.2B2C$48.4B66.4B$47.4B66.4B$46.4B66.
4B$45.4B66.4B$44.4B66.4B$43.4B66.4B$42.4B66.4B$41.4B66.4B$40.4B66.4B$
39.4B66.4B$38.4B66.4B$37.4B66.4B$20.E7.2C6.4B58.2C6.4B$19.2BE5.B2CB4.
4B49.E8.B2CB4.4B$19.3EB5.3B3.4B49.2BE8.3B3.4B$20.4B3.B.B3.4B50.3EB6.B
.B3.4B$21.4B.10B52.4B4.10B$22.13B54.4B.11B$23.11B56.14B$C20.12B37.C
20.12B$3C17.13B37.3C17.13B$3.C15.18B36.C15.18B$2.2C.2B10.20B2.4B29.2C
.2B10.20B2.4B$2.6B8.26B30.6B8.26B$4.5B6.6B2C18B33.5B6.6B2C18B$3.3B2DB
4.8B2C17B5.2C26.3B2DB4.8B2C17B5.2C$3.2B2D2B2.23B2C4B5.C27.2B2D2B2.23B
2C4B5.C$3.3BD26BC2BC2B3.BC.C27.3BD26BC2BC2B3.BC.C$4.30B2C5B.B2C29.30B
2C5B.B2C$4.35B2C2B31.35B2C2B$4.28B.5BC2BCB31.28B.5BC2BCB$5.26B3.5BCBC
B32.26B3.5BCBCB$5.26B3.6BC2B32.26B3.6BC2B$6.24B6.8B32.24B6.8B$9.17B.B
.B2C4.8B35.17B.B.B2C4.8B$11.9B.6B2.BC.C5.5B38.9B.6B2.BC.C5.5B$13.6B5.
2B6.C5.4B41.6B5.2B6.C5.4B$13.8B11.2C5.5B39.8B11.2C5.5B$14.5B2C21.2C
40.5B2C21.2C$16.3B2C21.C43.3B2C21.C$17.2B24.3C41.2B24.3C$16.4B25.C40.
4B25.C$16.B2CB66.B2CB$17.2C68.2C!
#C [[ VIEWONLY HEIGHT 240 ]]
That's never been possible for this orientation of receiver before -- same-color gliders could be made to work in two different ways, but only the mirror image of this orientation would accept either same- or different-color gliders.

Also it enables a new 20sL stable transparent G-to-G27 converter (or G-to-G with another eater) and a new G-to-H, about the same size and construction cost as the Silver reflector and G-to-H:

Code: Select all

x = 241, y = 195, rule = B3/S23
56b2o$56b2o$84bo$82b3o$58b2o21bo$58b2o21b2o$71b2o$71bo$69bobo$69b2o2$
22b2o55bo$22b2o7b2o45bobo$31b2o44bo2bo$78b2o$82b2o$23bo58bobo$22bobo
59bo$22bobo35b2o22b2o$23bo36b2o4$41bo$40bobo$41b2o5$67b2o$67b2o3$18b2o
$17bobo$17bo$16b2o7b2o$25b2o2$86b2o$86bobo$86bo3$35b2o$35bo$33bobo$33b
2o7$47b2o$47bo$45bobo$41b2o2b2o$41b2o$2o$bo$bobo$2bo37b2o4b2o$40b2o4b
2o7$46bo$45bobo$47bo$47b2o10$45b2o$44bo2bo$45b2o106$239bo$238b2o$238bo
bo!
Lousy compression rating, unfortunately (609 ticks)... though it could maybe be overclocked down to the low to mid-200s.

EDIT: What's the "modified Guam's G4"? I'm drawing a blank on that reference.

It was useful to go look for a G13, though. Turns out there's a whole pile of very reasonable new adjustable conduits based on this receiver, especially because it just barely manages to be ambidextrous for the known H-to-G6 transmitter (!).

Here's B357+4N and Lx369+4N, and there are a lot more using other receiver variants. Not quite Spartan due to the eater2, but close enough to be slow-constructible -- and very decent repeat times, smaller than the old 117-tick transceiver for one orientation:

Code: Select all

#C B357+4N (repeat time 130) and Lx369+4N (repeat time 110)
x = 140, y = 104, rule = B3/S23
111b2o$112bo$112b3o6$105b2o$104bobo$104bo$103b2o7$113b2o$113b2o2$120bo
b2o$120b2obo7$118bo$117bobo$118b2o11$45b2o$45b2o$73bo$71b3o20b2o$47b2o
21bo23b2o$47b2o21b2o26b2o$60b2o36b2o$60bo51b2o$58bobo51b2o$11bo46b2o$
9b3o$8bo59bo$8b2o57bobo$66bo2bo$67b2o55b2o$62b2o7b2o51b2o$61bo2bo6bobo
28b2o$o61b2o9bo29bo$3o46b2o22b2o25b3o$2bo15b2o29b2o49bo9bo$2bo15b2o89b
obo$109bobo$110bo$30bo$29bobo75bo$30b2o74bobo$21b2o82bo2bo$22bo83b2o$
21bo76b2o$21b2o74bobo9b2o$56b2o39bo11bo$56b2o38b2o12b3o$112bo2$76b2o
59b2o$76b2o59b2o2$55b2o59b2o$56bo60bo$56bobo58bobo$57b2o59b2o5$76b2o
59b2o$76b2o59b2o$57bo60bo$57bobo58bobo$57b3o58b3o$59bo60bo3$75b2o59b2o
$75bobo58bobo$50b2o12bob2o9bo33b2o12bob2o9bo$51bo10b3ob2o9b2o33bo10b3o
b2o9b2o$48b3o10bo47b3o10bo$48bo13b3ob2o41bo13b3ob2o$64bobo58bobo$64bob
o58bobo$65bo60bo!
-- Yes, it's a bit strange that the two circuits can be adjusted to produce their output Herschels at exactly the same time. Just a one-chance-in-four coincidence due to the timing of the H-to-G6.

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