The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » December 31st, 2020, 5:25 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:15 pm
I almost have an I→H.
I tried my P5 catalyst on it, and it actually worked. :P

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 114, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$9b2o2b4o2b2o$9bo2bob2obo2bo$7bobob2o4b2obobo$7b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$
10bob2o2b2obo$10bo8bo$8b2obo6bob2o$9bobo6bobo$8bo12bo$8b3ob6ob3o$11b2o
4b2o$8b2o10b2o$7bo2b10o2bo$7b2obo3b2o3bob2o$8bo3bob2obo3bo$8bo3b2o2b2o
3bo$6b2o4b2o2b2o4b2o$5bobob3o6b3obobo$5bobo14bobo$6bob2o10b2obo$8bob2o
6b2obo$7bo6b2o6bo$7b4o2b4o2b4o$5b2o3b2obo2bob2o3b2o$4bo3b2obobo2bobob
2o3bo$4b4obo10bob4o$7bo4b6o4bo$4b2obo2bo3b2o3bo2bob2o$5bobob2o8b2obobo
$4bo2b2o4bo2bo4b2o2bo$4b3o3b4o2b4o3b3o$7bob2o8b2obo$6bo2bo2b6o2bo2bo$
5bob2o2bo2b2o2bo2b2obo$5bobo4b6o4bobo$4b2obob2o2b4o2b2obob2o$3bo3bo14b
o3bo$4bobo3bo2bo2bo2bo3bobo$3b2ob2o3b8o3b2ob2o$3bo7bo6bo7bo$4b3o5b2o2b
2o5b3o$7bobo4b2o4bobo$6bo2b12o2bo$6bob2o10b2obo$11b3o2b3o$10bo2bo2bo2b
o$7bo2b2o6b2o2bo$7bo5bo2bo5bo$7bo3b3o2b3o3bo$11bo6bo$6bo6b4o6bo$5bo2b
6o2b6o2bo$b2obob3o2bo6bo2b3obob2o$b2obo8bo2bo8bob2o$4bo3bo4bo2bo4bo3bo
$4b2o3b2o2bo2bo2b2o3b2o$12bo4bo$7b4o2bo2bo2b4o$5b4o2b3o2b3o2b4o$3b3obo
4bo4bo4bob3o$2bo24bo$2bob3ob2obo6bob2ob3obo$b2obo5bob6obo5bob2o$bo3bob
o2bob2o2b2obo2bobo3bo$2b2obo6bo4bo6bob2o$3bobob4ob2o2b2ob4obobo$3bobo
4bo8bo4bobo$2b2ob4o12b4ob2o$bo9bo6bo9bo$2b5ob2obo2b2o2bob2ob5o$6bob3ob
2o2b2ob3obo$4b2o6b2o2b2o6b2o$4bo9b2o9bo$b2obo9b2o9bob2o$b2obob6obo2bob
6obob2o$4bobo4b2o4b2o4bobo$b4o3b2obo6bob2o3b4o$o5b2obobob4obobob2o5bo$
b5obo3bo6bo3bob5o$7b2o3bob2obo3b2o$3b3o2bo4bo2bo4bo2b3o$3bo2b2ob3obo2b
ob3ob2o2bo$4b2o2bo5b2o5bo2b2o$6bobo5b2o5bobo$6bo2bobob4obobo2bo$7b2o3b
o4bo3b2o2$13bo2bo7$12b2o$13bo$13b2o$14b2o7$9b2o$8bobo$8bo$7b2o2$30b2o$
30bobo$32bo$32b2o!

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » December 31st, 2020, 5:28 pm

wwei23 wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:25 pm
I tried my P5 catalyst on it, and it actually worked. :P
But can it provide extra outputs (G and R) at any timing?

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 35, rule = LifeHistory
14.D4.3D$13.3D5.D$13.D6.D$11.2C$12.C$12.2C$13.2C4$2.2A$.A2.A$.A.A$2A.
4A$2.A3.A$2.A.A23.2A$.2A.2A22.A.A$30.A$30.2A4$17.3D$17.D$16.3D8$21.2A
$20.A2.A$21.2A!
I am tentatively considering myself back.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » December 31st, 2020, 5:34 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:28 pm
But can it provide extra outputs (G and R) at any timing?
No, I was just trying to replace your long bookend on block with something that could provide that catalysis. :P

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » December 31st, 2020, 5:38 pm

wwei23 wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:34 pm
No, I was just trying to replace your long bookend on block with something that could provide that catalysis. :P
I was also somewhat joking.



Edit: Here is a version that can be followed with a dependent conduit. There might be some fancy tandem glider receiver that allows an extra output to be extracted, possibly at the cost of repeat time.

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 68, rule = LifeHistory
35.2A6.A$31.A.A2.A4.3A$29.3A.2A5.A$28.A11.2A$29.3A.2A$31.A.2A3$39.2E3.
2A$39.2E3.2A4$49.A$48.A.A$49.A7$31.2E$31.2E6$9.A6.2A.2A$9.3A5.A.2A$12.
A4.A23.2A$11.A3.A.A23.A$10.A3.A.A25.3A$10.2A3.A28.A6$34.2A$34.A$35.3A
$3.2C32.A$4.C$4.2C$5.2C13$17.2A$17.A$18.3A$2.2A5.3D8.A$3.A5.D$3A5.3D$
A$8.2E$8.2E!
I am tentatively considering myself back.

User avatar
praosylen
Posts: 2443
Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
Location: Pembina University, Home of the Gliders
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by praosylen » December 31st, 2020, 7:18 pm

wwei23 wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:25 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:15 pm
I almost have an I→H.
I tried my P5 catalyst on it, and it actually worked. :P

Code: Select all

rle
Stable version:

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 35, rule = LifeHistory
9.2A$4.2A2.A.A$4.A3.A$5.3A.4A$7.A.A2.A$3.3A.A.A$2.A2.A.2A$2.2A6$5.2C$
6.C$6.2C$7.2C7$2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A2$23.2A$23.A.A$25.A$25.2A$11.3D$11.D$10.
3D!
I still don't think there will be that much use for this, since the clearance isn't great no matter what version you use (except for maybe the slow rectifier one).
former username: A for Awesome
praosylen#5847 (Discord)

The only decision I made was made
of flowers, to jump universes to one of springtime in
a land of former winter, where no invisible walls stood,
or could stand for more than a few hours at most...

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » December 31st, 2020, 7:23 pm

A for awesome wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 7:18 pm
I still don't think there will be that much use for this, since the clearance isn't great no matter what version you use (except for maybe the slow rectifier one).
Do we not have R eaters or R-accepting conduits with good clearance?
I am tentatively considering myself back.

User avatar
Kazyan
Posts: 1247
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » December 31st, 2020, 9:04 pm

wwei23 wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 6:30 pm
Sure. I still don't know how to use CatForce and I don't understand the documentation, so please it explain it to me.
MathAndCode wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 6:32 pm
I don't know much how it works either; that's why I wanted someone who uses and understands it to write the explanation.
Sure.

In broad strokes, CatForce takes a given pattern and the bounding box/time restrictions you want to apply, and then tries a list of catalysts on that pattern. CatForce knows nothing about how the catalysts work, or even if they do work--it just checks to see if they get restored at any point, even if it's obvious that they won't. It tries every possible location of every possible combination of catalysts within the bounding box that you specify.

Of course, the input file contains the subtle details, and you have to fiddle with those to tell the program what to do. Here's an example of an input file which contains some quirks that I often use in my inputs, so I can explain them. We'll call this file "H-example.in".

Code: Select all

max-gen 250
start-gen 45
last-gen 120
num-catalyst 1
stable-interval 5
search-area -20 -20 40 35
combine-results yes 3 3 10 20
fit-in-width-height 20 20

pat o18bo$obo15bobo$3o15bo2bo$2bo$12b2o$10b3o2bobo$9bobo4bobo$9bo8bo$8b2o8b2o! -10 15
output H-example.rle
filter 50-60 4b2o$2bo2bo$bob2o$bo$2o! -2 19
filter 60 bo$obo$bo! 8 15 

=Catalysts=
cat 2o$2o 100 0 0 .
cat 2o$o$b3o$3bo! 40 -2 -2 * forbidden 2o$o$b3ob2o$3bobobo$6bo! -2 -2 forbidden bo$obo$2o2$2o$o$b3o$3bo! -2 -6 forbidden bo$2bo$3o2$3b2o$3bo$4b3o$6bo! -5 -6 forbidden 2bo$obo$b2o2$3b2o$3bo$4b3o$6bo! -5 -6
cat bo$obo$obo$bo 100 -1 -2 /
cat b2o$o2bo$bobo$2bo 100 -2 -2 +
cat bo$obo$bo 100 -1 -1 .
cat 2o$obo$bo 100 -1 -1 +
cat 2o$obo$b2o 100 -1 -1 |
I don't actually remember what max-gen does, but IIRC, CatForce doesn't bother to generate the pattern beyond this maximum number of generations. I always set max-gen to at least last-gen + 100*num-catalyst.

start-gen is the first generation in which catalysts are allowed to react with the input pattern.

last-gen is, similarly, the last generation.

num-catalysts is one of the most important parameters in the program. For the sake of examples, let's assume you're using a block, beehive, and fishhook as your catalyst list. At "1", CatForce tries every possible placement of block, then every beehive, then every fishhook. Only one catalyst is ever run past the pattern at a time. A 1-catalyst search usually only lasts a few seconds at most. At "2", CatForce tries two catalysts at once--every combination of two blocks, every combination of block + beehive, every block + eater, every two beehives, every beehive + eater, and every two eaters. At "3" CatForce tries three catalysts at once. You see how this combinatorially explodes. "2" is the sweet spot.

stable-interval: When CatForce notices that a catalyst has restored itself after an interaction, it checks to see if it survives this many generations thereafter before it's willing to call that restoration a success.

search-area: For the four numbers thereafter--w, x, y, and z--this tells CatForce to place the catalysts in a y-by-z bounding box, with the upper left corner at (w,x). CatForce does all its work on a 64x64 grid, so try to avoid going further away than 30 cells from the origin in any direction, or the results will come out all wraparoundy.

combine-results yes: This line tells Catforce to try layering some results over one another to see if that's a new solution. e.g. if a 1-catalyst solution finds that a block works near the top of a reaction, and also that an eater works way off to the left, combine-results tells CatForce to try that block and that eater together and see if it still works--even though that's technically 2 catalysts instead of the 1 you specified.

The numbers thereafter act like the stable-interval argument again--in our example, the first round of combined results have to survive for three generations before CatForce accepts that they've survived, and then the next round (when it's further combining those 2-catalyst results) has to survive 3, followed by 10, followed by 20. Every subsequent round inherits from the 20. Finally, when all is said and done, CatForce checks all of these good combinations one last time against the actual stable-interval parameter. Since stable-interval is less than the 20 required for the last round of combined-results, everything makes it through. Cat-Force usually goes through somewhere between 2 and 9 rounds of combinations before it runs out of ways to combine things. combine-results yes doesn't take very long, and is almost always worth putting in your search, but it rarely actually does anything if you're going with num-catalyst 3+.

fit-in-width-height basically tells CatForce not to bother placing two blocks at opposite ends of the bounding box during its brute-forcing. It's only useful when num-catalyst 2+, and is particularly handy for 3+. Even though Catforce will try to place catalysts everywhere within the search-area, any given combination of catalysts can't be farther apart than the smaller bounding box of fit-in-width-height. This narrows the search space a lot. CatForce stops caring about this when it gets to the combine-results yes phase, which is a good thing.

pat is the pattern you're running all these catalysts by, in RLE format without a header. The numbers at the end are the location of the upper left corner of the pattern.

You'll notice that the pat I use has some predecessors of catalysts already in it--i.e., this is a partial for a conduit, and I want CatForce to help me place more catalysts down the line. I use predecessors of the catalysts that ready belong in the partial because CatForce tries every catalyst placement within the bounding box you specify. It's totally possible that it places a tub right on top of a tub in your partial, if the bounding box reaches that far, and then CatForce will report that as a successful placement. This is particularly annoying with combine-results yes, because then it will show you Valid Eater Placement #16, but it will also show you Valid Eater Placement #16 Combined With Tub That Was There To Begin With, which look identical.

output is the output file name. You'll get a bunch of extra outputs if you use combine-results yes, and the one with 'Final' in its name will be the one you want.

filter is, well, a filter. "50-60 4b2o$2bo2bo$bob2o$bo$2o! -2 19" Means that, anytime between generations 50 and 60, 4b2o$2bo2bo$bob2o$bo$2o! must show up with its upper left corner at (-2,19). You can also use a single number for the desired generation. I often use this to check for bait restoration or to ensure that a partial conduit hasn't blown itself up.

=Catalysts= is a comment, because there's a special character at the beginning. CatForce doesn't read it as an argument.

Then there are a lot of cat lines that contain the actual catalysts. "cat" is always followed by an RLE, much like with pat; the RLE contains the actual block or eater or whatever. Then three arguments: the maximum recovery time, the x and y offsets, and the object's symmetry.
  • I like to set recovery time to 100 for Spartan objects, but you can and should lower it to the longest reasonable recovery time for non-transparent objects.
  • X and Y offsets have a bug where you have to input them as negative numbers. The purpose of these is to tell CatForce where the center of the catalyst is, so it has an easier time of computing whether something 'fits' in a bounding box or not. Generally, just halve the x and y dimensions of the catalyst and input those as negative numbers. It doesn't matter that much.
  • Under rotations and reflections, there are 8 possible ways to place a catalyst. It really saves on computation if a catalyst is symmetric, though, so you can tell CatForce what a catalyst's axes of symmetry are in order to lighten the load. Each symmetry option uses its own symbol. * for no axes, . for all axes, + for a single diagonal or orthognal axis (i.e. just spin it 90 degrees four times), | for two diagonal axes, / for two orthogonal axes, or x for 180 degree rotational symmetry.)
Tanner Jacobi
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » January 1st, 2021, 12:35 am

Kazyan wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 9:04 pm
Sure.
Thanks for explaining it to me. Only one question right now: What if there's a glider that wraps around the board or something?

User avatar
Kazyan
Posts: 1247
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » January 1st, 2021, 12:51 am

wwei23 wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 12:35 am
Thanks for explaining it to me. Only one question right now: What if there's a glider that wraps around the board or something?
Then it will wrap around the board, as predicted, and possibly interfere with another side of the reaction--or destroy some catalysts that otherwise would have valid placements. We don't want this, but it's a thing. Similarly, CatForce will sometimes give solutions that look like this:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o2$10b2o$b2o6b4o$b2o6b2ob2o$11b2o!
...because in this case, the LWSS wrapped around the 64x64 area.

For this reason, I have recently started suppressing a Herschel's FNG with a sacrificial block whenever I know the FNG will come out.
Tanner Jacobi
Coldlander, a novel, available in paperback and as an ebook. Now on Amazon.

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 1st, 2021, 1:07 am

Kazyan wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 12:51 am
For this reason, I have recently started suppressing a Herschel's FNG with a sacrificial block whenever I know the FNG will come out.
Why not simply start with the bottleneck that occurs after the Herschel has emitted its first natural glider?

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$b2o$o13bobo$15bo$14bobo$9bo$9bo$6bobo3b2o$5bobo4b2o$5bo8bo
$4b2o8bo$15bo!
I am tentatively considering myself back.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » January 1st, 2021, 1:33 am

MathAndCode wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 1:07 am
Why not simply start with the bottleneck that occurs after the Herschel has emitted its first natural glider?

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$b2o$o13bobo$15bo$14bobo$9bo$9bo$6bobo3b2o$5bobo4b2o$5bo8bo
$4b2o8bo$15bo!
Be careful which predecessors you use. Your eater parent has a block in it:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$b2o$o13bobo$15bo$14bobo$9bo$9bo2bo$6bobo4bo$5bobo4bobo$5bo
5bo2bo$4b2o8b2o!

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 1st, 2021, 1:36 am

wwei23 wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 1:33 am
Be careful which predecessors you use. Your eater parent has a block in it:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$b2o$o13bobo$15bo$14bobo$9bo$9bo2bo$6bobo4bo$5bobo4bobo$5bo
5bo2bo$4b2o8b2o!
Thank you for pointing that out. However, your solution has one cell more than necessary.

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$b2o$o13bobo$15bo$14bobo$9bo$9bo$6bobo4bo$5bobo3b2obo$5bo8b
o$4b2o8b2o!


Edit: Make that two cells more than necessary.

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$b2o$o$14b4o2$9bo$9bo$6bobo4bo$5bobo3b2obo$5bo8bo$4b2o8b2o!
I am tentatively considering myself back.

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 3rd, 2021, 9:45 pm

Jormungant wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:40 am
If you pick that century, just a little warning that it is something that is in 2 instances hidden within a well defined circuit. I did notice that it is related to the I-heptomino, and found the following links.
Do you have conduits for other common regions unrecognized by the Elementary Conduits Collection, such as the two-glider octomino? If so, could you please post them?
I am tentatively considering myself back.

Jormungant
Posts: 605
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Jormungant » January 4th, 2021, 10:21 am

MathAndCode wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 9:45 pm
Jormungant wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 8:40 am
If you pick that century, just a little warning that it is something that is in 2 instances hidden within a well defined circuit. I did notice that it is related to the I-heptomino, and found the following links.
Do you have conduits for other common regions unrecognized by the Elementary Conduits Collection, such as the two-glider octomino? If so, could you please post them?
I only looked at the elementary conduit collection for the specific case of that I heptomino (aka century). It did appear that this I-to-R (and also a I-to-G) was not a complicated find, and I could find that same required block in the same relative to the produced R in 3 instances of the collection, which allowed me to find the hidden I heptomino intermediary stage. Unless an obvious (two-glider octomino)-to-X exists, doing the same will be hard, since I never implemented a search algorithm for such a task.

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 4th, 2021, 1:39 pm

Jormungant wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:21 am
I only looked at the elementary conduit collection for the specific case of that I heptomino (aka century). It did appear that this I-to-R (and also a I-to-G) was not a complicated find, and I could find that same required block in the same relative to the produced R in 3 instances of the collection, which allowed me to find the hidden I heptomino intermediary stage. Unless an obvious (two-glider octomino)-to-X exists, doing the same will be hard, since I never implemented a search algorithm for such a task.
I figured that you must have had some separate database because the I→H+E couldn't have been from the Elementary Conduits Collection. I searched through the Elementary Conduits Collection (except for the tandem glider conduits) manually here. By the way, where are the E and S (stairstep hexomino) conduits? I thought that there were conduits for those but didn't see either sequence as an intermediate.
I am tentatively considering myself back.

Jormungant
Posts: 605
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Jormungant » January 4th, 2021, 4:46 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 1:39 pm
Jormungant wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:21 am
I only looked at the elementary conduit collection for the specific case of that I heptomino (aka century). It did appear that this I-to-R (and also a I-to-G) was not a complicated find, and I could find that same required block in the same relative to the produced R in 3 instances of the collection, which allowed me to find the hidden I heptomino intermediary stage. Unless an obvious (two-glider octomino)-to-X exists, doing the same will be hard, since I never implemented a search algorithm for such a task.
I figured that you must have had some separate database because the I→H+E couldn't have been from the Elementary Conduits Collection. I searched through the Elementary Conduits Collection (except for the tandem glider conduits) manually here. By the way, where are the E and S (stairstep hexomino) conduits? I thought that there were conduits for those but didn't see either sequence as an intermediate.
The E did not make it in the lasted conduit collection update, kazyan managed to find a good reason to include it when he found two E-to-G that worked with the only H-to-E that is known to exist (that was a dead-end before). However, the conduit collection got updated this year already for bandersnatchy reasons, so that, which appeared 1 month later, will be included in the next update. I think the stairstep hexomino is referred to as W in there (?).

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 4th, 2021, 4:50 pm

Jormungant wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 4:46 pm
The E did not make it in the lasted conduit collection update, kazyan managed to find a good reason to include it when he found two E-to-G that worked with the only H-to-E that is known to exist (that was a dead-end before). However, the conduit collection got updated this year already for bandersnatchy reasons, so that, which appeared 1 month later, will be included in the next update. I think the stairstep hexomino is referred to as W in there (?).
W refers to the wing sequence. I don't think that the stairstep hexomino has an agreed-upon letter yet, but I use S because it's rotationally symmetric and the first letter in stairstep. If you want, I can show you a S→B that I found somewhat recently.
I am tentatively considering myself back.

User avatar
bubblegum
Posts: 959
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm
Location: click here to do nothing

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by bubblegum » January 4th, 2021, 6:57 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 4:50 pm
I don't think that the stairstep hexomino has an agreed-upon letter yet
It does but it's ad-hoc and it's three letters.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

User avatar
Scorbie
Posts: 1692
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Scorbie » January 4th, 2021, 9:26 pm

bubblegum wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 6:57 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 4:50 pm
I don't think that the stairstep hexomino has an agreed-upon letter yet
It does but it's ad-hoc and it's three letters.
I'm guessing you mean LoM for Lumps of muck?

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 4th, 2021, 10:43 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 1:39 pm
I searched through the Elementary Conduits Collection (except for the tandem glider conduits) manually here.
Based on the results, it seems that the region that occurred 28,314 times would be the most useful to look into. Here's a way to turn it into an R-sequence:

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o3$12b2o$14bo$10bo2bo$10b3o15$6b2o$5bobo$5bo$4b2o!
Here's a way to turn it into a B-sequence:

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$4bo$o2bo$3o3$3b2o$3bo$4b3o$6bo!
Here's are two ways to turn it into a pi-sequence:

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$4bo$o2bo$3o2$5b2o$b2o2b2o$b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
15b2o$17bo$13bo2bo$13b3o2$3bob2o$b3ob2o$o19b2o$b3ob2o13b2o$3bobo$3bob
o$4bo!
Here's a partial way to turn it into a glider:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
7b2o$9bo$5bo2bo$5b3o5$10b2o$10bobo$2o10bo$2o10b2o!
I almost have a way to turn it into a clean blockade sequence.

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
8bo$7bobo$8bo2$6b5o$5bo4bo$4bo2bo$bo2bob2o$obobo5bo$bo2bo4bobo$4b2o2b
o2bo18bo$9b2o11b2o4b3o$24bo2bo$20bo2bo3b2o$20b3o6$27b2obo$27b2ob3o$33b
o$27b2ob3o$28bobo$28bobo$29bo!
Here's a complete way to turn it into one:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o4$14b2o$16bo$12bo2bo$12b3o14$15b2o$15bo$16b3o$18bo!
I am tentatively considering myself back.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » January 4th, 2021, 11:17 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:43 pm
Here's a partial way to turn it into a glider:
I couldn't find any way to complete it, by catalyst nor by spark, but do have this C-heptomino conversion:

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 50, rule = B3/S23
15b2o$17bo$13bo2bo$13b3o5$18b2o$18bobo$20bo$6b5o9b2o$4b2o5b2o$3bo9bo$
3bo3b3o3bo$3bo9bo$4b2o5b2o$4b3o3b3o$4bo7bo$4bobo3bobo$5b7o2$2o5bobo5b
2o$o2b2o3bo3b2o2bo$2b2obo5bob2o$5bobobobo$2b2o3bobo3b2o$bo2bo7bo2bo$2b
o3bo3bo3bo$b2ob3o3b3ob2o$o2bo9bo2bo$2ob3obobob3ob2o$bobo2bo3bo2bobo$bo
2bo2b3o2bo2bo$2b2o3b3o3b2o$7b3o$6bo3bo2$5bob3obo$6b5o2$6bo3bo$5bo5bo$b
2o2b3ob3o2b2o$bo4b2ob2o4bo$3bo2bo3bo2bo$2b4o5b4o$6bo3bo$4bo7bo$4b2o5b
2o!

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 4th, 2021, 11:38 pm

wwei23 wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 11:17 pm
I couldn't find any way to complete it, by catalyst nor by spark, but do have this C-heptomino conversion:
That's one more conduit accepting it. Which region shall we look into next? (I have a list of conduit intermediates here.
I am tentatively considering myself back.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » January 5th, 2021, 9:48 am

MathAndCode wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:43 pm
Here's a partial way to turn it into a glider:
Ho hum, ho hum, just taking another crack at sparking this thi-WHAT?!!!

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 29, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$16bo$12bo2bo$12b3o5$17b2o$17bobo$19bo$19b2o$3b2ob2o$b3o3b3o$o4b
o4bo$b4ob2ob2o$4bobobo2b2o$b2obo2b4o2bo$2bob2o2bobob2o$2bo7bobo$b2o7b
o2bo$7b2o2b3o$7b4o$11bo$6bobob2o$4b3ob2o$3bo3bo3b3o$3b2o2bob2o2bo$8bo
bo!

MathAndCode
Posts: 5141
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 5th, 2021, 10:19 am

wwei23 wrote:
January 5th, 2021, 9:48 am
Ho hum, ho hum, just taking another crack at sparking this thi-WHAT?!!!
Nice job. The two glider outputs are far enough apart for one to be deleted with an eater 5, so now we have two glider outputs and one tandem glider output.



Edit: I'm looking into E-accepting conduits now. Here's an E→B+G.

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
25.A$16.2A5.3A$16.2A4.A$22.2A4$12.2D.D$13.3D$14.D4$9.3C$8.2C$2A7.2C$2A
10$9.D$8.D$8.3D!
Unfortunately, the relative position and orientation of the B output is inconvenient in terms of repeat time.
I am tentatively considering myself back.

Jormungant
Posts: 605
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Jormungant » January 5th, 2021, 4:05 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 5:15 pm
I almost have an I→H.

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 34, rule = LifeHistory
6.2A$6.2A2$4.4A$4.A3.A$7.2A7$5.2C$6.C$6.2C$7.2C7$2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A2$23.
2A$23.A.A$25.A$25.2A$11.3D$11.D$10.3D!
Fixed!!! I→H finally!

Code: Select all

x = 53, y = 42, rule = LifeHistory
7$20.2A$15.2A2.A.A$15.A3.A$16.3A.4A$18.A.A2.A$14.3ABABAB25.A$13.A2.AB
2A.2B22.3A$13.2A2.7B20.A$17.7B2.B17.2A$13.2A5.13B.B5.6B$13.A2.AB.B2A
14B.7B$14.3AB.A2BA22B$11.3A3.3B2A23B$10.A3.A.30B$11.3A3.29B$14.3AB.
26B.2B2.2B$13.A2.AB.33B$13.2A4.33B$18.6B2.22BD3B$18.30BDBDB$19.29B3DB
$17.2AB3.27BDB$16.A.AB4.28B$16.A8.7BC15B$15.2A9.5B2C7B3.5B$26.3B3C8B
5.2B$27.2BC5B.3B$28.6B2.5B$30.3B6.2A$39.A$40.3A$42.A!
edit : mmm, it seems I missed a stable fix previously posted, I guess there is a flood of posts here lately, now that I checked, there is more useful clearance, which allows to use the P-to-I precursor, but one eater is in the part is still in the way in all cases:

Code: Select all

x = 220, y = 87, rule = LifeHistory
12$35.2A$35.A.A2.2A$37.A3.A$33.4A.3A$33.A2.A.A$9.A25.BABAB3A$9.3A22.
2B.2ABA2.A$12.A20.7B2.2A$11.2A17.B2.7B$11.6B5.B.13B5.2A$13.7B.14B2AB.
BA2.A$12.22BA2BA.B3A$12.23B2A3B3.3A$11.30B.A3.A$11.29B3.3A162.A$5.2B
2.2B.26B.B3A163.3A$5.33B.BA2.A161.A$5.33B4.2A92.2A67.2A$5.3BD22B2.6B
97.A.A2.2A$5.BDBD30B99.A3.A$5.B3D29B96.4A.3A$5.BD27B3.B2A94.A2.A.A$5.
28B4.BA.A69.A25.BABAB3A$9.15BD7B8.A69.3A22.2B.2ABA2.A$9.5B3.7B2D5B9.
2A71.A20.7B2.2A$10.2B5.8B3D3B81.2A17.B2.7B$18.9BD2B82.6B5.B.13B5.2A$
16.16B82.7B.14B2AB.BA2.A64.D$16.2D2.12B81.22BA2BA.B3A36.2A27.D.D$17.D
3.10B2A3.A76.23B2A3B3.3A33.A6.9B13.3D$14.3D2.12B2A2.A.A74.30B.A3.A29.
2A.A6.7B17.D$14.D3.12B.B3.A.A74.29B3.3A30.A2.3A4.7B$6.2A7.B3.11B4.2A.
3A66.2B2.2B.26B.B3A34.2A3.A3.6BD$7.A5.4B2.12B4.B4.A65.33B.BA2.A35.4A
3.5B2D$7.A.AB.5B.12B3.B2AB3A66.33B4.2A35.A6.3B3DB$8.2AB.18B3.B2A.A68.
3BD22B2.6B38.A.A.2A3.3BD3B16.2A$10.26B70.BDBD30B38.2A2.A4.7B16.A$9.
25B72.B3D29B43.A.A6.3B6.2D5.BA.A6.2B$9.27B70.BD27B3.B2A42.2A7.2B6.D6.
B2A7.2B$9.27B70.28B4.BA.A50.2B7.3D3.B9.2B$8.28B74.15BD7B8.A50.2B9.D3.
B10.B$7.29B74.5B3.7B2D5B9.2A48.5B3C8B$7.29B75.2B5.8B3D3B59.5BCBC7B$7.
28B78.15BD2B61.3BC2BC8B$8.26B79.19B59.4B2C11B$10.B3C19B78.C5B2D13B59.
17B$10.3BC14B83.BC5BD12B61.15B$10.B3C15B81.2B2CB3D13B62.14B$9.14B2.5B
79.2B2C2BCA13B2A63.3B.8B$8.11B8.4B78.2BC3B2A13B2A67.7B$8.12B.2B.3B.4B
79.18B73.B.4B$9.30B2.B69.10B2.5B78.2A$9.13B2A11BD7B69.6B5.7B76.A$10.
7B2D3B2A9B3D7B70.3B8.B3.2A77.3A$12.6BD14BDBD9B68.B14.A80.A$10.6B2D15B
D11B67.2A15.3A$10.2A.3BD7B2.2B2.14BAB66.A18.A$11.A2.9B10.10BABA67.A$
8.3A3.9B12.8BABA66.2A$8.A4.8B15.8BA$12.2AB.4B15.10B$11.A.AB.2B2AB14.
9B$11.A6.2A15.8B$10.2A24.7B$37.5B$38.2B!
Not sure if one noticed that this top blinker can be eaten cleanly, since that would be nice if one could fix the following, where the bottom eater can be placed in the P-to-I case:

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 97, rule = LifeHistory
14$47.2A$47.A.A2.2A$49.A3.A$45.4A.3A$45.A2.A.A$47.BABAB3A$46.2B.2ABA
2.A$45.7B2.2A$23.A21.7B$23.3A15.B3.4B5.2A$22.4BAB5.B.9B.2B2AB.BA2.A$
24.B2A4B.12B.BA2BA.B3A$23.4B16.B.2B2A3B3.3A$23.4B16.B.8B.A3.A$22.5B
16.B.7B3.3A$22.5B16.B.5B.B3A$16.2B2.2B.4B16.B.5B.BA2.A$16.11B16.B.5B
4.2A$16.11B16.B$16.3BD7B17.3B$16.BDBD7B16.4B$16.B3D7B16.4B$16.BD9B16.
2B$16.B$35.D$16.B18.2D$36.3D$38.D2B$27.2A2.4B3.5B$28.A2.4B3.5B$25.3A
4.3B3.4B2A3.A$25.A4.12B2A2.A.A$29.12B.B3.A.A$17.2A7.B3.11B4.2A.3A$18.
A5.4B2.12B4.B4.A$18.A.AB.5B.12B3.B2AB3A$19.2AB.18B3.B2A.A$21.26B$20.
25B$20.27B$20.27B$19.28B$18.29B$18.29B$18.28B$19.26B$21.B3C19B$21.3BC
14B$21.B3C15B$20.14B2.5B$19.11B8.4B$19.12B.2B.3B.4B$20.30B2.B$20.13B
2A11BD7B$21.7B2D3B2A9B3D7B$23.6BD14BDBD9B$21.6B2D15BD11B$21.2A.3BD7B
2.2B2.14BAB$22.A2.9B10.10BABA$19.3A3.9B12.8BABA$19.A4.8B15.8BA$23.2AB
.4B15.10B$22.A.AB.2B2AB14.9B$22.A6.2A15.8B$21.2A24.7B$48.5B$49.2B!
Last edited by Jormungant on January 5th, 2021, 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply