## The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
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### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Extrementhusiast wrote:Well, here's one other way to get in, and it's Spartan, to boot...
Ah, much nicer. Will have to figure out how to add that to Spartan Hersrch at some point -- it would make a good compact delay conduit.

Except... haven't you just moved the problem back one step? Is there a Spartan way to deliver an R to that location? Even a Herschel receiver can't manage that trick. (?) (I may be behind the times again.)

So for the moment I'm looking at a full Herschel conduit along the lines of an Lx424:

Code: Select all

``````x = 81, y = 67, rule = B3/S23
68b2o\$69bo\$69b3o6\$62b2o\$61bobo\$61bo\$60b2o2\$23b2o\$24bo14b2o\$24bobo12b2o
9b2o\$25b2o23b2o2\$21b2o36b2o9b2o\$21bo37b2o9b2o\$22b3o\$24bo52bob2o\$77b2ob
o\$59b2o\$59b2o\$18b2o3b2o\$18bobobobo\$20bobo\$19b2ob2o\$75bo\$49b2o23bobo\$
49b2o24b2o4\$14b2o\$13bo2bo2b2o\$13b3o2bobo\$16b2o\$13b2obo\$13bo2bo2bo\$14b
3obobo57b2o\$18b2o58b2o\$16b2o\$17bo\$8bo8bobo29b2o\$8b3o7b2o29b2o\$11bo\$10b
2o2\$75b2o\$75bo\$34b2o40b3o\$34b2o42bo2\$9bo\$9bobo\$9b3o\$11bo11b2o\$23bo\$24b
3o\$26bo2\$2b2o\$3bo\$3o\$o!``````
Definitely workable, but not so Spartan after all. Am I missing something?

Sphenocorona
Posts: 484
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Unrelated to the above discussion, but I found an almost-transparent reaction between a Herschel and a ship, where the ship is converted into a block and pond before being changed into a boat in the same position as the ship:

Code: Select all

``````#C [[ AUTOSTART GPS 30 LOOP 175 ]]
x = 24, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
22.2C\$21.C.C\$21.2C9\$3A\$.A\$.3A!``````
Might it be possible to place a catalyst to interact with the spark to turn the boat into a loaf (and then use an eater to convert that) or directly into a ship?

Sphenocorona
Posts: 484
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

As a very lazy demonstration of the new technology I made this highway robber pattern:

Code: Select all

``````x = 236, y = 196, rule = LifeHistory
119.2A\$118.A.A\$112.2A4.A\$110.A2.A2.2A.4A\$110.2A.A.A.A.A2.A\$113.A.ABAB
AB\$113.A.AB2AB\$114.AB.2B49.B2A\$117.3B46.2BA2BAB\$117.4B6.2A37.3B2A3B\$
115.3B2AB6.A36.12B\$115.3B2AB3.BA.A35.14B\$113.10B.B2A37.13B\$112.13B39.
14B\$111.14B38.15B\$110.15B38.14B\$109.4B2.8B40.13B\$108.4B5.6B40.B3D8B\$
107.4B4.9B39.2BD5B\$106.4B5.2A4.4B38.2B3D2B\$105.4B7.A5.4B37.6B\$104.4B
5.3A7.4B35.7B\$103.4B6.A10.4B33.8B\$102.4B19.4B31.8B\$101.4B21.4B29.9B\$
100.4B23.4B27.D3B.6B\$99.4B25.4B25.D3B.7B\$84.A13.4B27.4B23.B3D2.6B\$84.
3A10.4B29.4B21.4B3.6B\$87.A8.4B31.4B19.4B4.6B\$86.2A7.4B33.4B3.B2.A10.
4B4.8B\$86.5B3.4B35.4B5.3A7.4B6.8B\$88.3B2.4B37.4B7.A5.4B6.9B\$78.2A7.9B
39.4B5.2A4.4B7.9B\$78.A8.8B41.4B4.9B8.10B\$75.2A.A.B3.10B43.4B5.6B9.5B
2A3B\$75.A2.3AB.2B2A7B44.4B2.8B9.5B2A4B\$76.2A2.BA3B2A7B45.15B7.11B\$78.
4A12B46.14B7.12BA.2A\$78.A.2B3.7B.B2A45.13B4.2A3.8B2.2A.A\$40.2A37.3AB
2.7B.BA.A45.10B.B2A2.A4.7B\$39.A.A40.A2.6B5.A47.3B2AB3.BA.A.A4.6B\$33.
2A4.A37.5A3.6B5.2A46.3B2AB6.A.A.AB.6B\$31.A2.A2.2A.4A33.A7.B2.4B54.4B
6.A2.2AB.7B\$31.2A.A.A.A.A2.A35.A9.4B53.3B6.2A4.9B\$34.A.ABABAB36.2A10.
4B49.AB.2B14.10B\$34.A.AB2AB50.4B47.A.AB2AB13.11B\$35.AB.2B52.4B46.A.AB
ABAB8.B4.12B\$38.3B26.2A11.A12.4B42.2A.A.A.A.A2.A5.A2B.B.13B\$38.4B6.2A
16.B2AB9.A.A12.4B41.A2.A2.2A.4A4.A.A18B\$36.3B2AB6.A18.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A
5.4B42.2A4.A9.AB.17B\$36.3B2AB3.BA.A17.B.B9.2A.2A2.A2.A.A5.4B47.A.A10.
16B\$34.10B.B2A18.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A6.4B47.2A10.16B\$33.13B20.6B6.2ABA2.4A
.A8.4B51.2A6.15B\$32.14B20.8B4.2A.A.A3.A11.4B51.A8.14B\$31.15B21.13B2.A
.AB2.A11.4B50.A.AB2.B.12B.B2A\$22.A7.4B2.8B21.14B4.A.A2B.A3.A7.4B50.2A
B.15B.BA.A\$20.3A6.4B5.6B20.15B5.A2B.2A3.3A6.4B51.17B4.A\$19.A8.4B4.9B
19.15B4.3B10.A6.4B50.19B2.2A\$18.A.A6.4B5.2A4.4B17.17B.B.2B10.2A7.4B
50.18B\$17.BA.A5.4B7.A5.4B16.29B3.5B5.4B50.18B\$16.3BA5.4B5.3A7.4B14.
13B2A11BD4B4.5B4.4B43.A7.16B\$14.4B6.4B6.A10.4B12.14B2A9B3D4B2.7B5.4B
41.A.A6.16B\$12.6B5.4B19.4B10.2AB3.20BDBD4B.9B5.4B40.A.A7.13B.B2A\$11.
7B4.4B21.4B8.A2.A4.19BD15B7.4B37.3A.2A5.9B3.B2.BA.A\$4.B.4B.8B2.4B23.B
3D6.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.20B7.4B35.A4.B5.10B9.A\$3.2AB.17B25.D3B5.A7.6B14.
18B7.4B35.3AB2AB2.11B9.2A\$3.2A18B27.D3B3.2A6.9B14.17B7.4B36.A.2A14B\$
4.2B.16B28.4B9.4B4.2A15.17B7.4B10.2A7.2A16.18B\$7.16B29.4B7.4B5.A16.
18B7.4B8.B2A2B5.A.A17.15B2A\$8.15B30.4B5.4B7.3A11.8B.12B7.4B8.4B2.BA.A
.3A14.16B2A\$9.12B.B2A29.4B3.4B10.A11.2A3.B3.13B7.4B5.7B.B2A5.A13.17B\$
9.11B2.BA.A29.4B.4B24.A7.14B7.4B3.11B5.2A13.17B\$10.10B5.A30.7B22.3A8.
15B7.4B3.9B6.4B10.17B\$10.6B2A2B5.2A30.5B23.A10.16B7.4B2.12B5.3B8.18B\$
10.6B2A3B36.5B32.19B7.4B.16B.4B6.17B.B2A\$10.10B36.7B29.17B.4B7.34B2.
11B2.BA.A\$6.A.2AB.8B35.4B.4B27.2A28B.27BD4B2.11B6.A\$4.3AB2AB3.7B33.4B
3.4B25.A.AB.22BD4B.24B3D4B2.11B6.2A\$3.A4.B6.6B32.4B5.4B24.A4.20B3D4B
2.23BDBD4B.12B\$4.3A.2A4.6B32.4B7.4B22.2A3.D20BDBD4B.24BD20B\$6.2A2.A4.
5B31.4B9.4B25.D21BD21B3.2B2.23B\$9.A.A.8B28.5B11.4B23.B3D10B2.2B2.22B
11.21B\$5.A.2A.A.A8B27.5B13.4B21.4B2.8B10.17B12.4B.17B\$5.2A.A.BA2B.6B
27.5B14.4B19.4B4.7B12.16B10.4B3.16B\$8.A2.2B2.2B3D2B25.8B7.A5.4B6.A10.
4B6.5B12.18B8.4B3.17B\$8.2A.B3.2BD4B.2B21.9B5.3A6.4B5.3A7.4B5.6B13.19B
6.4B4.16B\$6.2A2.A.A2.B3D7B19.10B4.A10.4B7.A5.4B6.2A18.19B4.4B3.2AB.3B
3.7B\$5.A2.A2.2A2.13B16.11B4.2A10.4B5.2A4.4B8.A19.6B.12B2.4B3.A.AB7.6B
\$6.2A7.14B14.12B2.4B11.4B4.9B6.3A20.6B.17B4.A12.B.3B\$15.14B13.17B14.
4B5.6B7.A23.4B4.7B.6B4.2A12.2BA3B\$16.14B11.13B2A2B2A14.4B2.8B33.B3.8B
3.4B17.2A.A.A2.A\$19.10B11.14B2A.B2A15.15B35.2A4.2B2.6B16.2A.A.4A\$18.
10B4.2A5.16B3.B17.14B36.A7.D7B18.2A\$10.B3.B.10B6.A5.4B.B3D5B25.13B33.
3A7.BDBD2.4B14.2A4.5A\$9.19B.BA.A4.4B2.2BD5B27.10B.B2A26.A4.A8.2B2D4.
4B13.A6.A2.A\$7.B.19B.B2A4.4B3.2B3D2B30.3B2AB3.BA.A25.3A10.4B6.4B13.A
3.A\$6.2A22B5.4B4.6B31.3B2AB6.A28.A8.4B8.4B11.2A3.2A\$6.2A22B4.4B4.7B
33.4B6.2A26.2A7.4B10.4B\$7.23B3.4B4.8B33.3B35.5B3.4B12.4B\$7.23B2.4B4.
8B31.AB.2B38.3B2.4B14.4B\$9.26B4.9B30.A.AB2AB27.2A7.9B16.4B7.A\$10.11B
2.11B4.4B.6B29.A.ABABAB26.A8.8B18.4B6.3A\$8.13B3.9B4.4B.7B26.2A.A.A.A.
A2.A2.A18.2A.A.B3.10B20.4B8.A\$8.2AB.8B4.3B.4B4.4B2.6B28.A.A2.2A.9A16.
A2.3AB.2B2A7B21.4B6.A.A\$9.A2.8B5.B.4B4.4B3.6B28.A.A4.A9.A16.2A2.BA3B
2A7B22.4B5.A.AB\$6.3A3.8B6.4B4.4B4.6B27.2A.2A3.A.4A.3A8.2A9.4A12B23.4B
5.A3B\$6.A6.6B6.4B4.4B4.8B29.A2.A.A.A2.A.A9.B2AB8.A.2B3.7B.B2A22.4B6.
4B\$7.2A4.6B5.4B4.4B6.8B28.A.2A.A.A2.A.A9.3B10.3AB2.7B.BA.A22.4B5.6B\$
8.A4.6B4.4B4.4B6.9B16.A9.2A.A2.A2.A.2A.2A9.B.B12.A.7B5.A6.A16.4B4.7B\$
8.A.AB.7B2.4B4.4B7.9B16.3A6.A.A.A.A3.A.A2.B8.5B7.5A.8B5.2A3.3A17.4B2.
8B.4B.B\$9.2AB2.6B.4B4.4B8.10B18.A6.A3.A.4A2.AB2A6.6B7.A10.4B8.A21.17B
.B2A\$11.8B.4B4.4B9.5B2A3B17.2A12.A3.A.A.2A4.8B9.A9.4B7.2A21.18B2A\$11.
12B4.4B10.5B2A4B3.2A11.4B9.A2.BA.A2.13B9.2A10.4B3.5B21.16B.2B\$12.10B
4.4B11.11B3.A14.3B7.A.2BA.A5.13B20.4B2.3B23.16B\$13.8B4.4B12.4BD7BA.A
13.4B7.2A.2BA5.15B20.9B7.2A13.15B\$14.8B.5B15.B3D4B2.2A4.2A8.5B10.3B4.
15B21.8B8.A11.2AB.12B\$14.13B10.2A4.D2B2D2B9.A8.6B11.2B.B.17B21.10B3.B
.A.2A7.A.AB2.11B\$9.A4.12B12.A4.6B7.BA.A8.8B2.29B21.7B2A2B.B3A2.A7.A5.
10B\$7.3A3.14B11.A.AB.6B3.3B.B2A8.14BD11B2A13B20.7B2A3BAB2.2A7.2A5.2B
2A6B\$6.A5.16B11.2AB.14B11.13B3D9B2A14B19.12B4A15.3B2A6B\$6.2A3.18B12.
16B12.7B.4BDBD20B3.B2A16.2AB.7B3.2B.A16.10B\$3.5B2.20B12.14B12.15BD19B
4.A2.A14.A.AB.7B2.B3A17.8B.B2A.A\$2.4B.6B2.14B12.16B11.19B2.2B2.B3.6B
5.2A.A13.A5.4B4.A19.7B3.B2AB3A\$2.10B4.12B13.18B8.17B14.6B7.A12.2A5.4B
5.5A7.A6.6B6.B4.A\$.28B13.20B2.2B.15B14.9B6.2A17.4B10.A7.3A5.6B4.2A.3A
\$30B13.15BD22B15.2A4.4B23.4B9.A12.A4.5B4.A2.2A\$31B13.7B.4BDBD13B.8B
16.A5.4B21.4B10.2A9.B2AB2.8B.A.A\$32B.B10.6B2.4B3D9B2A2B3.8B11.3A7.4B
19.4B23.4B.8BA.A.2A.A\$.30B.B2A8.6B3.4BD11B2A2B5.B3.2A11.A10.4B17.4B
25.10B.2BAB.A.2A\$2.6B2C23B2A8.4B6.18B10.A24.4B15.4B27.4B3D2B2.2B2.A\$
3.4BC2BC20B.2B9.2B2AB12.4B.3B.B12.3A22.4B13.4B29.5BD2B3.B.2A15.A\$3.4B
CBC22B9.2AB.2A14.4B19.A23.4B11.4B27.2B.4B3DB2.A.A2.2A11.3A\$4.4BC3B3.
18B7.A.AB18.3B44.4B9.4B26.13B2.2A2.A2.A9.A\$6.4B5.19B6.A23.B2A43.4B7.
4B27.13B7.2A10.2A\$5.4B6.15B.4B4.2A23.BA.A43.4B5.4B27.14B17.4B\$5.4B5.
15B3.4B31.A44.4B3.4B29.14B15.3B19.A\$6.B3C4.16B3.4B30.2A44.4B.4B29.10B
2.4B14.4B18.3A\$7.C.2B3.16B4.4B76.7B28.B.11B2.4B12.5B9.A11.A\$8.C3B2.
15B6.4B76.5B28.2A14B.4B11.6B8.3A8.2A5.4B\$9.4B2.4B.9B7.4B75.5B28.2A26B
2.8B11.A7.11B\$10.4B7.6B10.4B73.7B28.23BD14B9.2A3.B5.11B\$11.4B8.4B11.
4B71.4B.4B27.21B3D13B10.8B2.11B2A\$12.4B8.2B13.4B69.4B3.4B30.17BDBD4B.
7B13.19B2A\$13.4B23.4B67.4B5.4B29.2A15BD15B12.20B\$14.4B23.4B65.4B7.4B
25.B.B2A6B2.2B2.19B11.20B\$15.4B23.4B63.4B9.4B23.2A8B11.17B8.21B\$16.4B
23.4B61.4B11.4B22.2AB.4B15.15B.2B2.25B\$17.4B23.4B59.4B13.4B22.B3.2B
17.22BD14B4.4B\$18.4B23.4B57.4B15.4B26.2B16.8B.13BDBD4B.6B6.4B\$19.4B
23.4B55.4B17.4B24.B2AB13.8B3.2B2A9B3D4B2.B.5B5.4B\$20.4B23.4B53.4B19.
4B24.2A14.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD4B7.2A6.4B\$21.4B23.4B51.4B21.4B40.A10.18B8.A
8.4B\$22.4B23.4B49.4B23.4B36.3A12.B.3B.4B16.3A6.4B\$23.4B23.4B47.4B25.
4B35.A19.4B19.A7.4B\$24.4B23.4B45.4B27.4B53.4B29.4B\$25.4B23.4B43.4B29.
4B51.4B31.4B\$26.4B23.4B41.4B31.4B49.4B33.4B\$27.4B23.4B39.4B33.4B47.4B
35.4B\$28.4B23.4B37.4B35.4B45.4B37.4B\$29.4B23.4B35.4B37.4B43.4B39.4B\$
30.4B23.4B33.4B39.4B41.4B41.4B\$31.4B23.4B31.4B41.4B39.4B43.4B\$32.4B
23.4B29.4B43.4B37.4B45.4B\$33.4B23.4B27.4B45.4B35.4B47.4B\$34.4B23.4B
25.4B47.4B33.4B49.4B\$35.4B23.4B23.4B49.4B31.4B51.4B\$36.4B23.4B21.4B
51.4B29.4B53.3B\$37.4B23.4B19.4B53.4B27.4B55.2B\$38.4B23.4B6.A10.4B55.
4B25.4B57.B\$39.4B23.4B5.3A7.4B57.4B23.4B\$40.4B23.4B7.A5.4B59.4B21.4B\$
41.4B23.4B5.2A4.4B61.4B19.4B\$42.4B23.4B4.9B63.4B6.A10.4B\$43.4B23.4B5.
6B65.4B5.3A7.4B\$44.4B23.4B2.8B66.4B7.A5.4B\$45.4B23.15B65.4B5.2A4.4B\$
46.4B23.14B66.4B4.9B\$47.4B23.13B67.4B5.6B\$48.B26.10B.B2A66.4B2.8B\$77.
3B2AB3.BA.A66.15B\$77.3B2AB6.A67.14B\$79.4B6.2A67.13B\$79.3B77.10B.B2A\$
76.AB.2B80.3B2AB3.BA.A\$75.A.AB2AB79.3B2AB6.A\$75.A.ABABAB80.4B6.2A\$72.
2A.A.A.A.A2.A78.3B\$72.A2.A2.2A.4A75.AB.2B\$74.2A4.A78.A.AB2AB\$80.A.A
76.A.ABABAB\$81.2A73.2A.A.A.A.A2.A\$156.A2.A2.2A.4A\$158.2A4.A\$164.A.A\$
165.2A!``````
There's probably a lot of optimization issues with it, and it's slower than already existing ones (repeat time 2808 or so), but after putting a good few hours into this, it'd be pretty pointless to just get rid of it.

Also, maybe a new elementary conduit stamp collection is in order, featuring all the new conduits along with the old?

EDIT: Fixed an uncleaned block. No idea how the relevant eater disappeared.
Last edited by Sphenocorona on March 28th, 2015, 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

biggiemac
Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Sphenocorona wrote:As a very lazy demonstration of the new technology I made this highway robber pattern:

Code: Select all

``````x = 225, y = 196, rule = LifeHistory
119.2A\$118.A.A\$112.2A4.A\$110.A2.A2.2A.4A\$110.2A.A.A.A.A2.A\$113.A.ABAB
AB\$113.A.AB2AB\$114.AB.2B49.B2A\$117.3B46.2BA2BAB\$117.4B6.2A37.3B2A3B\$
115.3B2AB6.A36.12B\$115.3B2AB3.BA.A35.14B\$113.10B.B2A37.13B\$112.13B39.
14B\$111.14B38.15B\$110.15B38.14B\$109.4B2.8B40.13B\$108.4B5.6B40.B3D8B\$
107.4B4.9B39.2BD5B\$106.4B5.2A4.4B38.2B3D2B\$105.4B7.A5.4B37.6B\$104.4B
5.3A7.4B35.7B\$103.4B6.A10.4B33.8B\$102.4B19.4B31.8B\$101.4B21.4B29.9B\$
100.4B23.4B27.D3B.6B\$99.4B25.4B25.D3B.7B\$84.A13.4B27.4B23.B3D2.6B\$84.
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6B6.B4.A\$.28B13.20B2.2B.15B14.9B6.2A17.4B10.A7.3A5.6B4.2A.3A\$30B13.
15BD22B15.2A4.4B23.4B9.A12.A4.5B4.A2.2A\$31B13.7B.4BDBD13B.8B16.A5.4B
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76.5B28.2A14B.4B11.6B8.3A8.2A5.4B\$9.4B2.4B.9B7.4B75.5B28.2A26B2.8B11.
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4B27.21B3D13B10.8B2.11B2A\$12.4B8.2B13.4B69.4B3.4B30.17BDBD4B.7B13.19B
2A\$13.4B23.4B67.4B5.4B29.2A15BD15B12.20B\$14.4B23.4B65.4B7.4B25.B.B2A
6B2.2B2.19B11.20B\$15.4B23.4B63.4B9.4B23.2A8B11.17B8.21B\$16.4B23.4B61.
4B11.4B22.2AB.4B15.15B.2B2.25B\$17.4B23.4B59.4B13.4B22.B3.2B17.22BD14B
4.4B\$18.4B23.4B57.4B15.4B26.2B16.8B.13BDBD4B.6B6.4B\$19.4B23.4B55.4B
17.4B24.B2AB13.8B3.2B2A9B3D4B2.B.5B5.4B\$20.4B23.4B53.4B19.4B24.2A14.
2A3.B5.2B2A11BD4B7.2A6.4B\$21.4B23.4B51.4B21.4B40.A10.18B8.A8.4B\$22.4B
23.4B49.4B23.4B36.3A12.B.3B.4B16.3A6.4B\$23.4B23.4B47.4B25.4B35.A19.4B
19.A7.4B\$24.4B23.4B45.4B27.4B53.4B29.4B\$25.4B23.4B43.4B29.4B51.4B31.
3B\$26.4B23.4B41.4B31.4B49.4B33.2B\$27.4B23.4B39.4B33.4B47.4B35.B\$28.4B
23.4B37.4B35.4B45.4B\$29.4B23.4B35.4B37.4B43.4B\$30.4B23.4B33.4B39.4B
41.4B\$31.4B23.4B31.4B41.4B39.4B\$32.4B23.4B29.4B43.4B37.4B\$33.4B23.4B
27.4B45.4B35.4B\$34.4B23.4B25.4B47.4B33.4B\$35.4B23.4B23.4B49.4B31.4B\$
36.4B23.4B21.4B51.4B29.4B\$37.4B23.4B19.4B53.4B27.4B\$38.4B23.4B6.A10.
4B55.4B25.4B\$39.4B23.4B5.3A7.4B57.4B23.4B\$40.4B23.4B7.A5.4B59.4B21.4B
\$41.4B23.4B5.2A4.4B61.4B19.4B\$42.4B23.4B4.9B63.4B6.A10.4B\$43.4B23.4B
5.6B65.4B5.3A7.4B\$44.4B23.4B2.8B66.4B7.A5.4B\$45.4B23.15B65.4B5.2A4.4B
\$46.4B23.14B66.4B4.9B\$47.4B23.13B67.4B5.6B\$48.B26.10B.B2A66.4B2.8B\$
77.3B2AB3.BA.A66.15B\$77.3B2AB6.A67.14B\$79.4B6.2A67.13B\$79.3B77.10B.B
2A\$76.AB.2B80.3B2AB3.BA.A\$75.A.AB2AB79.3B2AB6.A\$75.A.ABABAB80.4B6.2A\$
72.2A.A.A.A.A2.A78.3B\$72.A2.A2.2A.4A75.AB.2B\$74.2A4.A78.A.AB2AB\$80.A.
A76.A.ABABAB\$81.2A73.2A.A.A.A.A2.A\$156.A2.A2.2A.4A\$158.2A4.A\$164.A.A\$
165.2A!``````
There's probably a lot of optimization issues with it, and it's slower than already existing ones (repeat time 2808 or so), but after putting a good few hours into this, it'd be pretty pointless to just get rid of it.

Also, maybe a new elementary conduit stamp collection is in order, featuring all the new conduits along with the old?
There's an uncleaned block in that pattern (next to the B); as a result the conduit chain that resets the loaf breaks partway. Also, gnarly weld.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

Sphenocorona
Posts: 484
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Fixed the break in the conduit. That weld was truly exasperating to make - I might have spent around half an hour on that one part alone. But that weld is the simplest one I could find.

The bounding box can be easily reduced to some extent by replacing some of the edge snarks with a chain of multiple snarks. The use of the new R421 was probably total overkill in trying to delay the right side gliders, but it worked.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Sphenocorona wrote:The bounding box can be easily reduced to some extent by replacing some of the edge snarks with a chain of multiple snarks. The use of the new R421 was probably total overkill in trying to delay the right side gliders, but it worked.
As a demonstration of new technology, it seems fine the way it is -- no need to worry about bounding boxes.

If a reduction in size or repeat time is wanted, it will probably make sense to really restart from scratch. Looking at that three-stage rebuild of a loaf, I don't know why I ever thought that that was a good idea... the initial highway-robber reaction is nice and quick, but recovery is bound to be painfully slow. I seem to recall it was supposed to be a proof-of-concept, just to show that it was possible to snag a glider from one lane and leave gliders in adjacent lanes untouched.

With all the Bellman/ptbsearch/catgl activity lately, it seems quite possible that someone could dig up a much better H->bait converter -- either a direct H-to-loaf, or any other constellation that can be generated cleanly at the very edge of its reaction envelope by a H-to-junk converter, and that collapses fairly cleanly into a 90-degree glider. Anyone have any likely candidates lying around?

There are so many H-to-junk converters that show up in conduit searches, that one of them is bound to be just what we want... the problem is figuring out how to be reasonably efficient at testing and discarding all the other thousands of candidates. It would be nice to have an organized H->junk converter collection set up; pretty much any converter where the junk is right at the edge of its reaction envelope, with no catalysts in the way, has a small but nonzero probability of being useful to somebody sometime.
Sphenocorona wrote:Also, maybe a new elementary conduit stamp collection is in order, featuring all the new conduits along with the old?
Definitely! An update of Calcyman's collection would make a lot of sense now, with more readable labels for the sections.

A rebuild of the Herschel-conduit pattern in Golly's Signal-Circuitry folder is also long overdue -- none of Guam's discoveries are in there yet, even. Maybe the two should be combined into one large stamp collection, with some kind of labeling or index for the Herschel conduits, marking the locations of all the intermediate objects. It's really useful to see examples of how each elementary conduit can actually be used.

If someone wants to undertake the project, I'll check in the completed stamp collection to Golly immediately...!

chris_c
Posts: 938
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Copying Calcyman's H->Loaf from here and applying recent discoveries gives a 911 tick Highway Robber:

Code: Select all

``````x = 101, y = 73, rule = B3/S23
27b2o11bo\$27b2o10bobo\$39bobo2b2o3bo\$38b2ob2o2bo2bobo\$42bobo3bobo\$38b2o
bo2b4obo\$38b2obobo3bo\$42bobo3bo\$43bobo3bo\$44bo3b2o\$63bo\$61b3o\$60bo9bo\$
35b2o23b2o6b3o\$35b2o30bo\$20b2o45b2o\$19bo2bo48b2o\$18bob2o49bo\$18bo50bob
o\$17b2o50b2o\$32b2o\$32bo\$33b3o\$35bo11b2o23bo\$48bo22bobo\$45b3o8b2o14bo\$
45bo11bo\$7bo46b3o\$7b3o44bo\$10bo\$o8b2o\$3o\$3bo\$2b2o15b2o\$19b2o40b2o28bo\$
62bo26b3o\$47bo11b3o26bo\$45b3o11bo28b2o\$44bo\$44b2o\$50b2o44b2o\$9b2o39b2o
7bo37bo\$8bo2bo45b3o37bob2o\$8bobo45bo32b2o4b3o2bo\$9bo46b2o31b2o3bo3b2o\$
94b4o\$64b2o14b2o15bo\$64bo10b2o2bobo12b3o\$62bobo11bo2bo13bo\$62b2o10bo2b
3o14b5o\$74b3o21bo\$77bo18bo\$76b2o18b2o\$91b2o\$91bo\$88b2obo\$87bo2bo\$88b2o
\$73b2o\$40b2o31b2o\$40bo\$41b3o6b2o\$43bo2b2o2b2o\$43bobobo12b2o3bo\$24b3o
15b2obo14bo3bobo\$24bo17bo2bo15bo3bobo\$25bo17b2o17bo3bobob2o\$60bob4o2bo
b2o\$59bobo3bobo\$59bobo2bo2b2ob2o\$60bo3b2o2bobo\$68bobo10b2o\$69bo11b2o!
``````

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

chris_c wrote:Copying Calcyman's H->Loaf from here and applying recent discoveries gives a 911 tick Highway Robber...
Sub-1000-tick recovery is pretty impressive for a single-lane highway robber... Hmm, it's not too easy to actually get an output signal from it at that repeat rate, is it?

Code: Select all

``````x = 172, y = 153, rule = B3/S23
42b2o11bo\$42b2o10bobo\$54bobo2b2o3bo\$53b2ob2o2bo2bobo\$57bobo3bobo\$53b2o
bo2b4obo\$53b2obobo3bo\$57bobo3bo\$58bobo3bo\$59bo3b2o\$78bo\$76b3o\$3b2o70bo
9bo\$4bo45b2o23b2o6b3o\$2bo47b2o30bo\$2b5o14b2o12b2o45b2o\$7bo13bo12bo2bo
48b2o\$4b3o12bobo11bob2o49bo\$3bo15b2o12bo50bobo\$3b4o25b2o50b2o\$b2o3bo3b
2o35b2o\$o2b3o4b2o35bo\$2obo44b3o\$3bo46bo11b2o23bo\$3b2o58bo22bobo\$60b3o
8b2o14bo\$60bo11bo\$11b2o56b3o\$12bo56bo\$9b3o\$9bo5bo\$15b3o\$18bo\$17b2o15b
2o\$34b2o40b2o28bo\$77bo26b3o\$62bo11b3o26bo\$60b3o11bo28b2o\$59bo\$59b2o\$
65b2o44b2o\$24b2o39b2o7bo37bo\$23bo2bo45b3o37bob2o\$23bobo45bo32b2o4b3o2b
o\$24bo46b2o31b2o3bo3b2o\$109b4o\$79b2o14b2o15bo\$79bo10b2o2bobo12b3o\$77bo
bo11bo2bo13bo\$77b2o10bo2b3o14b5o\$89b3o21bo\$92bo18bo\$91b2o18b2o\$106b2o\$
106bo\$103b2obo\$102bo2bo\$103b2o\$88b2o\$55b2o31b2o\$55bo\$56b3o6b2o\$58bo2b
2o2b2o\$58bobobo12b2o3bo\$57b2obo14bo3bobo\$57bo2bo15bo3bobo\$58b2o17bo3bo
bob2o\$75bob4o2bob2o\$74bobo3bobo\$74bobo2bo2b2ob2o\$75bo3b2o2bobo\$83bobo
10b2o\$84bo11b2o3\$98b2o11bo\$98b2o10bobo\$110bobo2b2o3bo\$109b2ob2o2bo2bob
o\$113bobo3bobo\$109b2obo2b4obo\$109b2obobo3bo\$113bobo3bo\$114bobo3bo\$115b
o3b2o\$134bo\$132b3o\$131bo9bo\$106b2o23b2o6b3o\$106b2o30bo\$91b2o45b2o\$90bo
2bo48b2o\$89bob2o49bo\$89bo50bobo\$88b2o50b2o\$103b2o\$103bo\$104b3o\$106bo
11b2o23bo\$119bo22bobo\$116b3o8b2o14bo\$116bo11bo\$125b3o\$125bo2\$71bo\$71b
3o\$74bo\$73b2o15b2o\$90b2o40b2o28bo\$133bo26b3o\$118bo11b3o26bo\$116b3o11bo
28b2o\$115bo\$115b2o\$121b2o44b2o\$80b2o39b2o7bo37bo\$79bo2bo45b3o37bob2o\$
79bobo45bo32b2o4b3o2bo\$80bo46b2o31b2o3bo3b2o\$165b4o\$135b2o14b2o15bo\$
135bo10b2o2bobo12b3o\$133bobo11bo2bo13bo\$133b2o10bo2b3o14b5o\$145b3o21bo
\$148bo18bo\$147b2o18b2o\$162b2o\$162bo\$159b2obo\$158bo2bo\$159b2o\$144b2o\$
111b2o31b2o\$111bo\$112b3o6b2o\$114bo2b2o2b2o\$114bobobo12b2o3bo\$95b3o15b
2obo14bo3bobo\$95bo17bo2bo15bo3bobo\$96bo17b2o17bo3bobob2o\$131bob4o2bob
2o\$130bobo3bobo\$130bobo2bo2b2ob2o\$131bo3b2o2bobo\$139bobo10b2o\$140bo11b
2o3\$108bo\$107b2o\$107bobo!
[[ AUTOSTART STEP 8 ]]``````
But no doubt substituting a G-to-2G for the initial G-to-G stage would produce something pretty close to that recovery time, maybe even still below 1000 ticks.

chris_c
Posts: 938
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:Hmm, it's not too easy to actually get an output signal from it at that repeat rate, is it?
No, not so easy. This one works at 886 ticks but still no nice output.

Code: Select all

``````x = 102, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
23b2o11bo\$23b2o10bobo\$35bobo2b2o3bo\$34b2ob2o2bo2bobo\$38bobo3bobo\$34b2o
bo2b4obo\$34b2obobo3bo\$38bobo3bo15b2o\$39bobo3bo14bo\$40bo3b2o12bobo\$54b
2o2b2o\$54b2o2\$31b2o\$31b2o\$16b2o48b2o\$15bo2bo47b2o7b2o\$14bob2o57bo\$14bo
58bobo\$13b2o58b2o\$28b2o\$28bo\$29b3o\$31bo10b2o\$41bobo\$41bo\$o39b2o23bo\$3o
61bobob2o\$3bo44b2o12b3obobo\$2b2o15b2o28bo11bo3bo4bo21bo\$19b2o22bo2b3o
13bo2bob4o19b3o\$43b4o7b2o7bobobo21bo\$54b2o8bo3b3o18b2o\$45b4o21bo\$44bo
3bo\$44b2o51b2o\$50b2o46bo\$9b2o39b2o7bo38bob2o\$8bo2bo45b3o30b2o4b3o2bo\$
8bobo45bo33b2o3bo3b2o\$9bo46b2o37b4o\$81b2o15bo\$64b2o14bobo12b3o\$64bo15b
o13bo\$62bobo14b2o14b5o\$62b2o10bo24bo\$74b3o20bo\$77bo19b2o\$76b2o\$91b2o\$
91bo\$88b2obo\$87bo2bo\$88b2o\$73b2o\$40b2o31b2o\$40bo\$41b3o6b2o\$43bo2b2o2b
2o\$43bobobo12b2o3bo\$24b3o15b2obo14bo3bobo\$24bo17bo2bo15bo3bobo\$25bo17b
2o17bo3bobob2o\$60bob4o2bob2o\$59bobo3bobo\$59bobo2bo2b2ob2o\$60bo3b2o2bob
o\$68bobo10b2o\$69bo11b2o!
``````
EDIT: 951 ticks with glider output:

Code: Select all

``````x = 110, y = 117, rule = B3/S23
50b2o\$50bobo\$52bo4b2o\$48b4ob2o2bo2bo\$48bo2bobobobob2o\$51bobobobo\$52b2o
bobo\$56bo2\$42b2o\$43bo7b2o\$43bobo5b2o\$44b2o7\$54b2o\$54bo\$55b3o\$57bo15\$
90bo\$90b3o\$93bo\$92bobo\$92bobo\$93bo5\$108b2o\$7bo100b2o\$7b3o\$10bo\$o8b2o\$
3o85b2o\$3bo83bobo\$2b2o15b2o66bo\$19b2o65b2o7b2o\$95b2o\$47bo\$45b3o55b2obo
\$44bo58b2ob3o\$44b2o63bo\$50b2o51b2ob3o\$9b2o39b2o7bo42bo2b2o\$8bo2bo45b3o
41bobo\$8bobo45bo26bo16bobob2obo\$9bo46b2o25b3o15bo2bob2o\$86bo17bo\$64b2o
19b2o16b2o\$64bo16b2o17bobo2b2o\$62bobo16bo18b2o2bo2bo\$62b2o19bo21b2o\$
82b2o6\$79b2o\$79b2o17b2o\$98b2o\$40b2o\$40bo\$41b3o6b2o47b2o\$43bo2b2o2b2o
47bo\$43bobobo38b2o12b3o\$24b3o15b2obo41bo14bo\$24bo17bo2bo38b3o\$25bo17b
2o39bo7\$91bo\$89b3o\$88bo\$88b2o7\$78b2o\$77bobo5b2o\$77bo7b2o\$76b2o2\$90bo\$
86b2obobo\$85bobobobo\$82bo2bobobobob2o\$82b4ob2o2bo2bo\$86bo4b2o\$84bobo\$
84b2o!
``````
Last edited by chris_c on March 28th, 2015, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Extrementhusiast
Posts: 1812
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:
Extrementhusiast wrote:Well, here's one other way to get in, and it's Spartan, to boot...

Ah, much nicer. Will have to figure out how to add that to Spartan Hersrch at some point -- it would make a good compact delay conduit.

Except... haven't you just moved the problem back one step? Is there a Spartan way to deliver an R to that location? Even a Herschel receiver can't manage that trick. (?) (I may be behind the times again.)

So for the moment I'm looking at a full Herschel conduit along the lines of an Lx424:

Code: Select all

``````x = 81, y = 67, rule = B3/S23
68b2o\$69bo\$69b3o6\$62b2o\$61bobo\$61bo\$60b2o2\$23b2o\$24bo14b2o\$24bobo12b2o
9b2o\$25b2o23b2o2\$21b2o36b2o9b2o\$21bo37b2o9b2o\$22b3o\$24bo52bob2o\$77b2ob
o\$59b2o\$59b2o\$18b2o3b2o\$18bobobobo\$20bobo\$19b2ob2o\$75bo\$49b2o23bobo\$
49b2o24b2o4\$14b2o\$13bo2bo2b2o\$13b3o2bobo\$16b2o\$13b2obo\$13bo2bo2bo\$14b
3obobo57b2o\$18b2o58b2o\$16b2o\$17bo\$8bo8bobo29b2o\$8b3o7b2o29b2o\$11bo\$10b
2o2\$75b2o\$75bo\$34b2o40b3o\$34b2o42bo2\$9bo\$9bobo\$9b3o\$11bo11b2o\$23bo\$24b
3o\$26bo2\$2b2o\$3bo\$3o\$o!``````
Definitely workable, but not so Spartan after all. Am I missing something?
I don't think so. So, let's find some seeds for the pair of bookends. Here are two:

Code: Select all

``````x = 51, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
4b2o\$4b2o6\$3obobo42bo\$4b2o38b2o2bo\$5bo33b3o2bobob3o\$45bo3\$4b2o36b2o\$4b
2o36b2o!
``````
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

Sphenocorona
Posts: 484
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

By the way, since that article from 2009 says there are no known "perfect" highway robbers, has that changed in the last 6 years? Here's two baits that might be usable:

Code: Select all

``````#C [[ AUTOSTART GPS 20 LOOP 60 ]]
x = 48, y = 12, rule = LifeHistory
8.A6.2C3.C12.A6.2C3.2C\$8.2A4.C2.C.C.C11.2A4.C2.C2.C.C\$7.A.A5.2C3.2C
10.A.A5.2C4.2C\$6.B.B22.B.B\$5.4B21.4B\$4.2C2B21.2C2B\$3.2B2C21.2B2C\$2.2B
CB21.2BCB\$.A3B21.A3B\$B2AB21.B2AB\$ABA22.ABA\$.B24.B!``````
(I love the fact that viewer settings can be put into [/code] blocks, and when showing them in the viewer, the settings will still be followed. It makes posts take up less vertical space, and I would assume it's less taxing on users on slow, low-end systems, too.)

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Sphenocorona wrote:By the way, since that article from 2009 says there are no known "perfect" highway robbers, has that changed in the last 6 years? Here's two baits that might be usable...
Yup, I have that same beehive+boat bait in my notes from 2004, but have made no progress on reconstructing that constellation cheaply.

There are two parts to perfection, incidentally: one is the initial "perfect robbery" part, where the bait collapses quickly off the highway so that no following glider sees any leftover sparks. The other is the "perfect cleanup", where the reconstructed bait still life does not impinge on the key glider lane until the circuit is completely ready to accept another glider.

I doubt that anything can be done about gliders that have already gone partway past the bait site. It would be very impressive if a highway robber could be designed that had no "forbidden zone" time period when gliders can not be allowed on the key lane. It's not completely absolutely impossible, but a baker's dozen different reactions and output signals and recovery modes might be needed, so I think the resulting object would be so horrendously slow as to not be all that interesting.

But it could be possible for a bait still-life construction to push a cell into the glider lane very late, just as it's stabilizing, going from its out-of-the-way state to its ready-to-rob state in just one tick. Don't know if that's too likely for the beehive+boat bait, though.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Scorbie and A for awesome posted a couple of functional pre-honeyfarm-to-glider converters over on the Useless Discoveries thread, that I'm transferring over here because I'm not quite sure that they're really useless.

Clearance is definitely fairly limited for getting the pre-honeyfarm in... but I figure if I can really easily design an engineered way to do the insertion, then probably there are plenty of natural reactions out there somewhere, that throw a pre-honeyfarm the same distance:

Code: Select all

``````x = 155, y = 52, rule = LifeHistory
15.A99.A\$13.3A97.3A\$12.A99.A\$12.2A85.2A11.2A\$98.A2.A\$9.3D86.A.2A7.3D\$
8.D3.D82.2A.A9.D3.D\$7.D5.D81.2A.A8.D5.D\$7.D5.D84.2A7.D5.D\$7.D5.D25.6A
53.A2.A5.D5.D25.6A\$2.2A4.D3.D26.A5.A53.2A.A5.D3.D26.A5.A\$.A.A5.3D27.A
61.A7.3D27.A\$.A38.A57.A.A39.A\$2A96.2A2\$3.2A\$3.2A2\$109.2A\$109.2A2\$5.A.
2A13.A99.A\$3.3A.2A12.2A98.2A\$2.A18.A.A97.A.A\$3.3A.2A7.2A\$5.A.A9.A\$5.A
.A8.A\$6.A9.2A7\$36.A99.A\$35.2A98.2A\$35.A.A97.A.A13\$53.A99.A\$52.2A98.2A
\$52.A.A97.A.A!``````
[I didn't try to find a similar trick for simeks' third HF-to-2G, because that one really does seem closed-in enough to be unusable in practice.]

It would be nice to find a compatible H-to-HF or two, to make this into a legitimate elementary conduit to add to the collection.

Scorbie
Posts: 1443
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Seems useless, but hoping if somebody could get something out.

Code: Select all

``````x = 11, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
2A\$.A7.2A\$.A.A5.2A\$2.2A12\$7.A\$6.3A\$5.2A.A!
``````
Best wishes to you, Scorbie

Extrementhusiast
Posts: 1812
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

A rather hollow Rx262:

Code: Select all

``````x = 70, y = 42, rule = LifeHistory
16.2A\$17.A\$17.A.A23.2A\$18.2A23.A\$41.A.A\$41.2A4\$7.A\$7.3A\$10.A58.D\$9.2A
56.3D\$50.2A15.D.D\$50.2A15.D\$2A\$2A4\$47.2A\$33.2A12.A\$33.2A13.3A\$50.A9\$
15.2A\$15.2A2\$15.A\$14.3A\$14.3A2\$13.4A\$13.5A\$14.A.2A!
``````
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Extrementhusiast wrote:A rather hollow Rx262...
Wow! A new Spartan dependent conduit, joining F166 and Lx200, and it turns in a new direction -- and repeat time isn't too bad, either (145 ticks).

Seems like it's definitely time to collect recent discoveries into a new build of Hersrch. Quite possibly there will be new Spartan searches to do to synchronize N gliders to run a minimal invariant turner, if nothing else.

Extrementhusiast
Posts: 1812
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

An H-to-3G:

Code: Select all

``````x = 23, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
9.2A\$9.2A2\$21.2A\$2A19.2A\$2A15\$4.3C\$5.C8.2A\$5.3C6.A\$15.3A\$17.A!
``````
A similar H-to-R-loaf:

Code: Select all

``````x = 29, y = 34, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A\$6.A.A\$6.2A\$23.A\$21.3A\$20.A\$20.2A7\$2A\$2A2\$26.2D\$25.D2.D\$26.D.D\$
27.2D10\$4.3C\$5.C8.2A\$5.3C6.A\$15.3A\$17.A!
``````
The known converters don't work, but it seems that others might. Interestingly, removing the eater gives a very nice H-to-block:

Code: Select all

``````x = 42, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A\$6.A.A\$6.2A\$23.A\$21.3A\$20.A\$20.2A7\$2A\$2A38.2D\$40.2D14\$4.3C\$5.C\$5.
3C!
``````
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

simsim314
Posts: 1733
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Extrementhusiast wrote:An H-to-3G:
Here is an even simpler one:

Code: Select all

``````x = 25, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
23b2o\$23bo\$21bobo\$21b2o4\$2o\$2o2\$22bo\$20bobo\$20b3o\$20bo8\$12b2o\$12bo\$13b
3o\$15bo!
``````

simsim314
Posts: 1733
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

I was playing with CatForce, and reported all pairs of successful catalysts (no pairs in CatForce directly). Here are some interesting stuff I found (some of it is probably known):

Code: Select all

``````x = 1403, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
1387bo\$10bo1375bobo\$8b2o427bo82bo865bobo\$7b2o426b3o80b3o100bo765bo\$6bo
427bo82bo101b3o85b2o\$7b5o262bo159b2o81b2o99bo88bo\$8bo93bo169b3o343b2o
85bobo\$100b2o69bo99bo92bo340b2o431bo137b2o\$99b2o69bobo22bo75b2o89b3o
772bobo136b2o\$98bo72bo21b2o166bo776bo\$3bo95b5o88b2o167b2o\$2bobo76b2o
17bo90bo\$3bo77b2o109b5o680b2o\$193bo254bo82bo177bo167bo178b2o\$276bo169b
2o81b2o176b2o166bobo178bo\$274b2o169b2o81b2o102bo73b2o167b2o177bobo\$2o
81b2o188b2o91bo77bo82bo102b2o73bo348b2o\$obo79bobo187bo91b2o79b5o78b5o
96b2o75b5o65b2o287bo\$2bo79bo190b5o85b2o81bo82bo98bo78bo68bo286b3o\$2b2o
77b2o191bo87bo251b2o13b5o140bobo285bo\$182b2o179b5o247bo14bo143b2o286b
2o100bo\$182bo181bo247b3o236b2o26bo282b2o237bo\$183b3o72b2o93b2o257bo
238b2o24b2o89b2o191b2o129bo106b2o\$185bo73bo93bo522b2o75b2o13bo191bo
129b2o106b2o\$256b3o95b3o161b2o355bo77b2o11bobo192b5o123b2o106bo\$256bo
99bo161bo357b5o85b2o194bo125bo109b5o\$519b3o171b2o83bo98bo189bo221b5o
105bo\$430b2o89bo171b2o81b2o287b2o223bo\$431bo343b2o287b2o208b2o\$428b3o
343bo288bo211bo\$428bo346b5o284b5o203b3o108b2o\$757b2o17bo193bo94bo91b2o
113bo111bo\$757b2o209b2o187b2o222b3o\$967b2o412bo\$966bo\$967b5o\$968bo!
``````

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

simsim314 wrote:I was playing with CatForce, and reported all pairs of successful catalysts (no pairs in CatForce directly). Here are some interesting stuff I found (some of it is probably known)...
Yup, I recognize the majority of these. Some of the ones that I don't recognize have probably been investigated, too, but it never hurts to re-run a search (maybe with some new catalysts like the ship+eater) if someone has the time for it.

Here are the ones that are likely to lead to rediscoveries:
• #1: same output as Lx134
• #2: see HtoG#24 (SE lane 15)
• #4: same initial catalysts as F171
• #5: B94 on top of input H, has been looked at before, not too likely to be useful
• #7: same output as Fx78 (so same initial catalysts as F117)
• #9: same output as Lx134
• #A: see HtoG#25 (SE lane 18)
• #E: block in same location as Fx176 / H-to-pi converter
• #F: transparent beehive in same location as HtoG#3 (SE lane -3), and both catalysts in same locations as in HtoG#12 (NW lane 9)

Code: Select all

```x = 629, y = 197, rule = LifeHistory 7.9D85.4D85.8D75.9D83.8D68.19D63.9D68.22D\$5.13D79.8D83.13D69.14D81.8D 68.19D60.13D67.22D\$4.15D74.12D81.16D66.18D78.9D68.19D59.15D66.22D\$3. 17D71.14D80.18D64.20D77.9D68.19D57.17D66.22D\$3.7D3.7D70.15D79.8D4.8D 63.8D5.7D76.10D68.6D69.10D3.4D67.6D10.6D\$2.7D5.7D69.15D79.7D7.6D63.6D 8.7D74.11D68.6D68.8D77.6D9.7D\$2.6D7.6D70.6D.7D78.7D8.7D63.4D10.6D74. 11D68.6D67.8D79.4D10.7D\$.7D7.7D76.7D78.7D9.6D77.6D73.12D68.6D67.7D94. 6D\$.6D9.6D76.7D78.6D10.6D77.6D73.12D68.6D66.7D94.7D\$.6D9.6D76.7D78.6D 10.6D77.6D72.13D68.6D65.7D95.7D\$7D9.7D75.7D79.4D10.7D76.7D72.6D.6D68. 15D56.7D95.6D\$7D9.7D75.7D93.7D75.7D72.7D.6D68.17D54.6D2.7D86.7D\$6D10. 7D75.7D92.8D69.13D71.7D2.6D68.18D53.17D84.7D\$6D10.7D75.7D91.8D69.13D 72.7D2.6D68.19D51.20D82.6D\$6D10.7D75.7D90.9D69.13D71.7D3.6D68.9D3.8D 50.21D80.7D\$6D10.7D75.7D89.9D71.13D70.6D4.6D68.7D6.7D50.12D2.7D80.7D\$ 6D10.7D75.7D88.9D77.9D68.7D4.6D69.4D9.7D49.10D5.7D79.6D\$6D10.7D75.7D 87.9D80.7D68.6D5.6D83.6D49.9D7.6D78.7D\$7D9.7D75.7D86.9D82.7D66.7D5.6D 83.6D50.8D7.7D77.7D\$7D9.7D75.7D84.10D83.7D66.6D6.6D83.6D50.7D8.7D77. 6D\$7D9.6D76.7D83.9D86.6D65.22D80.6D50.6D10.6D76.7D\$.6D9.6D76.7D82.9D 87.6D65.22D80.6D50.7D9.6D76.6D\$.7D7.7D76.7D81.9D88.6D65.22D80.6D50.7D 8.7D76.6D\$2.6D7.6D77.7D80.9D89.6D65.22D79.7D51.6D8.7D75.7D\$2.7D5.7D 77.7D79.9D73.5D11.7D78.6D66.5D11.7D51.7D6.7D76.6D\$3.7D3.7D78.7D77.9D 9.4D62.6D8.8D79.6D65.8D7.8D53.7D4.8D76.6D\$3.17D71.21D70.23D60.22D76. 13D62.22D54.18D76.7D\$4.15D71.23D69.23D61.20D76.14D63.20D56.16D77.6D\$ 5.13D72.23D69.23D62.18D77.14D65.17D59.13D78.6D\$7.9D75.21D70.23D65.12D 81.13D68.11D64.9D81.4D11\$14.BD\$12.A2D2B425.C82.C\$10.ABCD3B423.3C80.3C 80.C\$9.BACA.2B423.C82.C81.3C\$10.AB5D262.C159.2C81.2C79.C\$12.BD3B89.BD 169.3C323.2C\$104.A2D2B67.C99.C92.C\$102.ABCD3B66.C.C21.BD75.2C89.3C\$ 101.BACA.2B68.C20.A2D2B164.C\$8.C93.AB5D86.ABCD3B164.2C\$7.C.C76.2C16.B D3B85.BACA.2B\$8.C77.2C107.AB5D\$197.BD3B250.BD81.BD\$280.BD168.A2D2B78. A2D2B\$278.A2D2B165.ABCD3B76.ABCD3B78.BD\$5.2C81.2C186.ABCD3B87.BD75.BA CA.2B76.BACA.2B77.A2D2B\$5.C.C79.C.C185.BACA.2B86.A2D2B75.AB5D76.AB5D 74.ABCD3B\$7.C79.C188.AB5D83.ABCD3B77.BD3B78.BD3B73.BACA.2B\$7.2C77.2C 190.BD3B82.BACA.2B227.2C11.AB5D\$187.2C177.AB5D227.C13.BD3B\$187.C180.B D3B224.3C\$188.3C72.2C93.2C237.C\$190.C73.C93.C\$261.3C95.3C161.2C\$261.C 99.C161.C\$524.3C\$435.2C89.C\$436.C\$433.3C\$433.C25\$629F27\$8.9D81.8D\$6. 13D77.12D250.9D3.4D\$4.16D74.15D64.14D73.19D77.19D60.17D60.25D64.27D\$ 3.18D73.16D62.16D71.23D72.21D59.21D56.26D64.27D\$3.8D3.8D71.7D3.8D61. 16D71.24D70.22D59.22D55.26D64.27D\$2.7D7.7D69.7D6.7D61.15D72.24D68.9D 4.10D60.22D55.25D64.27D\$2.6D8.7D69.6D7.7D66.11D74.6D8.7D67.8D9.7D62. 6D7.8D57.6D10.6D68.6D11.6D\$2.6D9.6D69.6D8.7D65.11D74.6D9.7D66.7D11.6D 62.6D9.7D56.6D10.6D68.6D11.6D\$2.6D9.6D68.7D8.7D64.13D73.6D10.6D65.7D 12.6D62.6D10.6D56.6D10.6D68.6D11.6D\$2.6D9.6D68.7D9.6D64.13D73.6D10.6D 65.6D13.6D62.6D10.7D55.6D10.6D68.6D11.6D\$2.6D8.7D68.7D9.6D63.7D.7D72. 6D10.6D64.7D14.4D63.6D11.6D55.6D10.6D68.6D11.6D\$2.7D7.7D68.7D8.8D62. 7D.7D72.6D9.7D64.6D82.6D11.7D54.6D4.4D3.4D69.6D4.4D4.4D\$3.8D3.8D70.6D 8.8D62.6D3.6D72.6D9.7D64.6D82.6D12.6D54.6D3.6D75.6D3.6D\$3.18D71.7D6. 9D61.7D3.7D71.6D7.8D65.6D82.6D12.6D54.6D3.6D75.6D3.6D\$4.17D71.7D5.10D 61.6D5.6D71.21D65.6D82.6D12.6D54.15D75.15D\$4.17D72.8D2.11D60.7D5.7D 70.20D66.6D82.6D12.6D54.15D75.15D\$3.19D72.20D60.7D5.7D70.21D65.6D82. 6D12.6D54.15D75.15D\$2.9D3.9D72.19D60.6D7.6D70.22D64.6D82.6D12.6D54. 15D75.15D\$2.7D7.7D73.18D59.21D69.6D8.9D63.6D82.6D12.6D54.6D3.6D75.6D 3.6D\$.7D9.6D75.7D2.6D60.21D69.6D10.8D62.6D82.6D12.6D54.6D3.6D75.6D3. 6D\$.7D9.7D82.7D59.23D68.6D11.7D62.7D81.6D12.6D54.6D4.4D4.4D68.6D4.4D\$ .7D9.7D82.7D59.23D68.6D12.6D62.7D81.6D11.7D54.6D11.6D67.6D\$.7D9.7D81. 7D59.7D11.7D67.6D12.6D63.7D14.4D62.6D11.6D55.6D11.6D67.6D\$.7D9.7D80. 7D60.7D11.7D67.6D12.6D63.8D12.6D61.6D10.7D55.6D11.6D67.6D\$2.7D7.7D79. 9D60.6D13.6D67.6D12.6D64.8D10.7D61.6D9.7D56.6D11.6D67.6D\$2.8D5.8D69. 5D3.10D60.7D13.7D66.6D10.8D65.9D6.9D61.6D7.9D56.6D11.6D67.6D\$3.19D70. 17D60.11D6.14D60.26D67.22D60.23D54.26D63.18D\$4.17D70.16D62.12D5.14D 59.27D68.20D60.23D54.27D63.18D\$5.15D72.13D64.12D5.14D59.25D72.16D62. 21D56.27D63.18D\$8.9D77.9D66.11D6.14D60.22D77.10D66.18D59.26D63.18D10\$ 602.C\$601.C.C\$601.C.C\$602.C\$14.2C\$14.C\$12.C.C\$12.2C409.C87.2C\$422.C.C 86.2C\$423.C3\$184.2C\$15.BD167.C178.2C\$13.A2D2B164.C.C178.C\$11.ABCD3B 164.2C177.C.C\$10.BACA.2B344.2C\$11.AB5D85.2C267.C\$13.BD3B85.C266.3C\$ 101.C.C265.C\$101.2C266.2C77.BD\$158.2C25.BD259.A2D2B164.BD\$158.2C23.A 2D2B87.2C167.ABCD3B75.BD85.A2D2B\$181.ABCD3B72.2C13.C167.BACA.2B74.A2D 2B82.ABCD3B\$180.BACA.2B73.2C11.C.C168.AB5D71.ABCD3B81.BACA.2B\$181.AB 5D85.2C171.BD3B70.BACA.2B83.AB5D\$2C102.BD77.BD3B185.BD147.AB5D84.BD3B \$2C100.A2D2B264.A2D2B148.BD3B\$100.ABCD3B262.ABCD3B133.2C\$99.BACA.2B 262.BACA.2B135.C\$100.AB5D262.AB5D131.3C88.2C\$84.2C16.BD3B169.BD93.BD 3B66.2C63.C91.C\$84.2C188.A2D2B163.2C152.3C\$272.ABCD3B317.C\$271.BACA. 2B\$272.AB5D\$274.BD3B! #C [[ VIEWONLY ZOOM 1 HEIGHT 240 ]]```
Of the remaining ones... #B looks as if it might possibly lead to a nice R213, and #D just looks interesting. Don't know about the likelihood of reaching back and killing the #D leftover blinker in a reasonable amount of time.

Probably better to try running further searches on #3, #6, #8, or #C first -- something new might turn up for those. The rest have definitely already had successful searches run on them, which means that a lot of other options have already been tried and discarded there.

Of course it's always possible that any of the new Bellman catalysts will be the key to a new Herschel conduit with an old beginning. It just seems likely that the duplication rate will be a little higher in those search spaces, and the success rate a little lower.

simsim314
Posts: 1733
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

List of most potential catalysts I've found in here

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``````x = 629, y = 136, rule = LifeHistory
611.2C\$610.C.C\$497.2C112.C\$496.C.C\$497.C\$5.2C\$4.C.C\$5.C\$179.C9.C415.C
\$179.3C5.3C414.C.C\$182.C3.C194.2C222.C\$181.2C3.2C193.2C242.2C\$276.C
348.C\$274.3C234.2C110.C.C\$273.C237.C111.2C\$72.2C199.2C234.C.C\$19.2C
51.2C20.C169.2C129.2C112.2C\$19.C72.2C169.C2.C128.C\$17.C.C71.2C171.2C
127.C.C\$17.2C71.C302.2C\$73.2C16.5C531.C\$73.2C17.C532.2C\$513.C110.2C\$
511.2C110.C\$74.2C434.2C112.5C\$21.C51.C.C124.C86.C109.C111.C96.2C17.C\$
19.2C52.C124.2C85.2C108.2C113.5C91.2C\$18.2C52.2C7.2C114.2C85.2C108.2C
115.C\$17.C63.C114.C86.C109.C\$18.5C59.3C112.5C82.5C105.5C\$19.C64.C113.
C86.C109.C212.2C\$379.2C226.C.C\$380.C226.C\$377.3C226.2C\$14.C265.C96.C
122.2C\$13.C.C176.2C85.C.C218.C\$14.C177.2C86.C220.3C\$2C177.2C322.C\$2C
177.2C2\$11.2C\$11.C.C\$13.C\$13.2C68\$55.2C\$55.C\$53.C.C\$53.2C2\$37.2D22.2C
\$36.D2.2D20.C\$35.D3.2D18.C.C\$36.D2.2D18.2C\$37.2D6\$60.C\$58.C.C\$58.3C\$
58.C2\$44.2C\$43.C.C4.2C\$43.C6.C\$42.2C7.3C\$53.C!
``````
@dvgrn Thx for the comprehensive feedback. I hope to run the searches on what you mention as the most potential soon. Meanwhile I'm developing CatForce further.

I'm thinking also making some "bellman light" version for CatForce.

I think the idea of combining "local" catalysts from single step search together, into - one giant search output, and define it as single iteration is the key. Using categories and prioritization, we can get a lot of new "good stuff" from this approach.

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Extrementhusiast wrote:Interestingly, removing the eater gives a very nice H-to-block...
Or adding a block catalyst removes the final block, producing another alternate H-to-3G.

It looks like this block inserter could maybe be used as a one-time replacement for the eater2 in a syringe. I haven't tried setting it up to see if it will work, because it seems as if the resulting Spartan structure will be too slow and cumbersome to be useful.

I think it's time now for somebody (probably me) to write a quick script that, assuming that the selection is a clean H-to-nG converter, normalizes and runs it and reports the exact glider lanes and timings for each output glider. Output will look something like

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``````Dir   Lane  T      X
SW    -2    14     1
NW     9    47    -3
NW    23    68     15``````
To make this work, there will be a canonical phase for each direction of output glider, and the X value will report the location where that phase first occurs. (I'll probably report the Y value too, though that can also be calculated from the lane number.)

Probably the program should keep, and add to, a database of H-to-Gs and the various gliders' measurements, so we can easily tell if an H-to-G is really a new one or merely a variant of something previously known.

simsim314
Posts: 1733
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Here is a conduit (F271?) based on one of the previous findings:

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``````x = 47, y = 64, rule = LifeHistory
35.2C3.2C\$35.2C3.2C8\$43.2C\$28.2C13.2C\$28.2C9\$44.2C\$44.2C8\$8.2C\$7.C.C\$
8.C3\$43.2C\$43.C\$33.2C3.2C4.3C\$2.C28.C2.C4.C6.C\$.C.C27.3C5.C.C\$2.C37.
2C\$22.2C7.3C\$22.C8.C2.C\$20.C.C10.2C\$20.2C6\$2C\$2C19.C\$19.C.C\$19.3C\$19.
C\$3.2C\$3.2C4\$5.2C\$4.C.C4.2C\$4.C6.C\$3.2C7.3C\$14.C!
``````

gameoflifeboy
Posts: 474
Joined: January 15th, 2015, 2:08 am

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

One of the eaters can be replaced by a snake:

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``````x = 47, y = 64, rule = LifeHistory
35.2C3.2C\$35.2C3.2C8\$43.2C\$28.2C13.2C\$28.2C9\$44.2C\$44.2C8\$8.2C\$7.C.C\$
8.C3\$43.2C\$43.C\$33.2C3.2C4.3C\$2.C28.C2.C4.C6.C\$.C.C27.3C4.C\$2.C35.2C\$
22.2C7.3C\$22.C8.C2.C\$20.C.C10.2C\$20.2C6\$2C\$2C19.C\$19.C.C\$19.3C\$19.C\$
3.2C\$3.2C4\$5.2C\$4.C.C4.2C\$4.C6.C\$3.2C7.3C\$14.C!
[[ THEME 7 ZOOM 4 ]]
``````

dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 6163
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Contact:

### Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

simsim314 wrote:Here is a conduit (F271?) based on one of the previous findings...
That's a nice first result -- congratulations! Apparently nobody ever figured out how to extract a sideways B-heptomino from the old Lx134 reaction, instead of cleaning up the R and waiting for the Herschel.

It's getting hard to remember all these different varieties of "self-cleaning" composite circuits -- this one is a H-to-B-to-R-to-H, absorbing three internal gliders along the way, so the repeat rate is very slow as usual (286 ticks). It can follow quite a few conduits -- e.g., F117, Fx153, R190, and F171 with a little welding. Does anyone see a way to let the F171's extra glider escape?

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``````x = 52, y = 82, rule = B3/S23
14bo\$13bobo\$13bobo\$14bo\$25bo\$25bo\$23b3o9b2o3b2o\$23bo11b2o3b2o8\$43b2o\$
28b2o13b2o\$28b2o9\$44b2o\$44b2o8\$8b2o\$7bobo\$8bo3\$43b2o\$43bo\$33b2o3b2o4b
3o\$2bo28bo2bo4bo6bo\$bobo27b3o5bobo\$2bo37bobo\$22b2o7b3o8bo\$22bo8bo2bo6b
ob2o\$20bobo10b2o4b3obobo\$20b2o16bo5bo\$38b2o\$46bo\$44b3o\$43bo\$43b2o\$2o\$
2o\$46b2o\$46bo\$44bobo\$3b2o39b2o\$3b2o2\$51bo\$49b3o\$48bo\$48b2o\$12b2o\$12bo\$
13b3o\$15bo3\$50bo\$48bobo\$48b3o\$48bo2\$40b2o\$40bo\$41b3o\$43bo!``````
A really nice feature is that the minimal Lx134 catalysis works just fine, removing the protruding eater. That just happens to make Fx119+F271 into a rare near-Spartan Edge Shooter In Passing (it doesn't use up the Herschel). There might be some interesting pseudo-period guns that use that combination of circuits to get two or more timed gliders on an output lane -- or maybe just generate multiple gliders to trigger and reset a chain of semi-Snarks.

Code: Select all

``````x = 73, y = 83, rule = B3/S23
36bo\$35bobo\$35bobo\$36bo\$47bo\$47bo\$45b3o9b2o3b2o\$45bo11b2o3b2o8\$65b2o\$
50b2o13b2o\$50b2o9\$66b2o\$66b2o8\$30b2o\$29bobo\$30bo3\$65b2o\$65bo\$2bo52b2o
3b2o4b3o\$obo21bo28bo2bo4bo6bo\$b2o20bobo27b3o5bobo\$24bo37b2o\$44b2o7b3o\$
44bo8bo2bo\$42bobo10b2o\$42b2o2\$62bo\$53b2o5b3o\$53b2o4bo\$59b2o\$22b2o\$22b
2o\$58b2o\$53b2o3b2o\$53b2o\$25b2o\$25b2o3\$63b2o6b2o\$63bo7bo\$61bobo5bobo\$
34b2o25b2o6b2o\$34bo\$35b3o\$37bo\$61bo\$61b3o\$61bobo\$63bo2\$35bo\$36b2o\$35b
2o\$64b2o\$64bo\$65b3o\$67bo!``````
So now we have similar motivation as for the eater2 case, to find half a dozen edge-of-envelope recipes for the other orientation of bookends (we have this one from chris_c, which is pretty good -- can probably just add a boat to build it from a different direction).