The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 13th, 2021, 6:58 pm

dvgrn wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 2:23 pm
Does anyone mind if I move a pile of posts about not-quite-working mechanisms over to a new Speculative Elementary Conduits thread? They can move right back as soon as they've been demonstrated to actually recover correctly, and connect to other conduits in a useful way.
Yes, feel free to do so. I've created conduit-related threads in the past for the same purpose. Speaking of which, do you suppose that there should be a thread for dirty/messy conduits in case two of such conduits can be chained together so that their junk annihilates each other?
dvgrn wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 2:23 pm
This is a thread about stable Herschel conduits. Can someone please explain why it seems like a good idea to post non-stable non-Herschel non-conduits here?
Maybe the problem is that not enough people know about the alternative threads. At least one of the conduit-related threads that I made is on the second page now.
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7856
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » January 13th, 2021, 7:53 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 6:58 pm
... do you suppose that there should be a thread for dirty/messy conduits in case two of such conduits can be chained together so that their junk annihilates each other?
I certainly have no objection to the existence of such a thread. On the other hand, I probably won't pay any attention to what is posted on that thread, either. While it's perfectly true that a lucky clean combination of two dirty conduits is possible, the more important question is:

Will something like that happen often enough that spending time testing combinations of dirty conduits is more worthwhile than spending time doing some other type of search?

There are many thousands of probably-useless dirty conduits that can be found and posted on a thread like that. Stick any two of them together and you have a new conduit that's 99+ percent likely to be dirty also -- and you know it will be about twice as big as the average constituent conduit. Big conduits get used very rarely in modern circuitry: years go by, for example, between the times when anyone uses any conduit in the right half of the H-to-H collection.
MathAndCode wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 6:58 pm
Maybe the problem is that not enough people know about the alternative threads. At least one of the conduit-related threads that I made is on the second page now.
Good point. I'll try adding a bigger table of relevant links to the first post in the Hunting Herschel and Hunting Elementary threads.

MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » January 14th, 2021, 8:48 pm

dvgrn wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 7:53 pm
I'll try adding a bigger table of relevant links to the first post in the Hunting Herschel and Hunting Elementary threads.
I made the thread for dirty conduits; you might want to add it to the table.
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
Extrementhusiast
Posts: 1890
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Extrementhusiast » January 16th, 2021, 11:04 pm

Extrementhusiast wrote:
September 29th, 2015, 8:54 pm
Two more partial conduits, both needing an annoying bit of cleanup:

Code: Select all

x = 92, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
61.3D$62.D$60.3D$12.D$11.3D$11.D.2D$33.A56.A$.A18.2A9.3A43.2A9.3A$.3A
16.2A8.A46.2A8.A$4.A25.2A55.2A$3.2A2$56.2A$56.2A3$2A$2A2$33.2A20.2A
33.2A$33.2A19.A.A33.2A$54.A$53.2A8$15.3C54.3C$16.C56.C$16.3C54.3C!
Managed to solve the first of these:

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
14.D$13.3D$13.D.2D$35.A$3.A18.2A9.3A$3.3A16.2A8.A$6.A25.2A$5.2A6$2.2A
$2.2A2$35.2A$35.2A4$2A$2A5$12.2A3.3C$11.A.A4.C$11.2A5.3C!
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7856
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » January 16th, 2021, 11:31 pm

Extrementhusiast wrote:
January 16th, 2021, 11:04 pm
Managed to solve the first of these:

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
14.D$13.3D$13.D.2D$35.A$3.A18.2A9.3A$3.3A16.2A8.A$6.A25.2A$5.2A6$2.2A
$2.2A2$35.2A$35.2A4$2A$2A5$12.2A3.3C$11.A.A4.C$11.2A5.3C!
Wow. That makes a new F193, among many other things.

You don't see a new Herschel conduit every day, especially not a Spartan one -- even Spartan in the old pre-slmake sense -- that lets an extra glider escape in the middle, along with the FNG.

Code: Select all

x = 62, y = 37, rule = LifeHistory
22.2A3.2B$21.B2AB.4B5.2A$22.3B.4B5.A$21.B.B2.5B.BA.A$3.4B13.11B.B2A$
4.4B9.16B$5.4B8.16B$6.4B5.17B$7.4B3.18B$8.4B.20B$9.24B$10.23B8.A$11.
22B.B4.3A$12.22B2A2.A$10.24B2A2.2A$8.27B4.B$8.2BC17B.6B4.3B$7.3BCBC
17B8.6B$8.2B3C21B3.10B$7.5BC4B.17B2.11B3.2B2.2B$6.10B2.19BD3B2A15BD$
5.4B3.B5.19B2D2B2A15BDBD$4.4B3.3B3.21B2D18B3DB$3.4B4.2A3B.21BD21BD$2.
4B3.BA.A24BD21B$.4B3.2B2A.23B3.13B.B$4B5.4B.16B3.2B4.7B.B$10.22B$10.
22B$12.20B$13.17B.B2A$13.9B3.B5.BA.A$14.7B3.3B7.A$16.3B5.B2AB6.2A$16.
B.2B5.2A$16.B2AB$17.2A!
Repeat time appears to be 175, due to the escaping glider, so it's not the best for self-constructing circuitry. The NW7 output lane is a new one, though.

wwei23

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei23 » January 16th, 2021, 11:42 pm

That Herschel looks awfully close to that ship. Do you suppose that it's possible to get that Herschel in?

Sphenocorona
Posts: 527
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Sphenocorona » January 17th, 2021, 12:42 am

wwei23 wrote:
January 16th, 2021, 11:42 pm
That Herschel looks awfully close to that ship. Do you suppose that it's possible to get that Herschel in?
Yes, the standard BFx59H (and many other conduits that produce Herschels through a B sequence) will fit, though it's a really tight fit - 1 cell closer and it wouldn't work:

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 60, rule = LifeHistory
35.2A3.2B$34.B2AB.4B5.2A$35.3B.4B5.A$34.B.B2.5B.BA.A$16.4B13.11B.B2A$
17.4B9.16B$18.4B8.16B$3.2A14.4B5.17B$4.A15.4B3.18B$3.A17.4B.20B$3.2A
17.24B$4.B18.23B8.A$4.3B17.22B.B4.3A$3.6B16.22B2A2.A$2.10B11.24B2A2.
2A$2.11B3.2B2.28B4.B$2BC3B2A15BD17B.6B4.3B$2B2C2B2A15BDBD17B8.6B$.2B
2C18B3D21B3.10B$2.BC21BD4B.17B2.11B3.2B2.2B$2.C26B2.19BD3B2A15BD$4.
13B.4B3.B5.19B2D2B2A15BDBD$4.7B.B4.4B3.3B3.21B2D18B3DB$16.4B4.2A3B.
21BD21BD$15.4B3.BA.A24BD21B$14.4B3.2B2A.23B3.13B.B$13.4B5.4B.16B3.2B
4.7B.B$23.22B$23.22B$25.20B$26.17B.B2A$26.9B3.B5.BA.A$27.7B3.3B7.A$
29.3B5.B2AB6.2A$29.B.2B5.2A$29.B2AB$30.2A5$3.2A44.2A$4.A45.A$3.A45.A$
3.2A44.2A$4.B45.B$4.3B43.3B$3.6B40.6B$2.10B36.10B$2.11B3.2B2.6B22.11B
3.2B2.6B$2BC3B2A15BD3B2.B16.2BC3B2A15BD3B2.B$2B2C2B2A15BDBDB.B2A15.2B
2C2B2A15BDBDB.B2A$.2B2C18B3D3B2A16.2B2C18B3D3B2A$2.BC21BDB.2B18.BC21B
DB.2B$2.C24B10.D10.C24B$4.13B.B17.D13.13B.B9.D3.D$4.7B.B22.D14.7B.B
11.2E3.D.D$24.2E4.D3.D34.E.E4.D$23.E.E5.D.D35.2E4.D.D$23.2E7.D41.D3.D
!

Sphenocorona
Posts: 527
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Sphenocorona » January 29th, 2021, 2:54 am

Here's a new elementary Fx187, made by adding Scorbie's G->blinker to HF157R:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 60, rule = LifeHistory
13.2A$13.A$15.A$11.5A$11.A$13.B4A$12.B.A2.A$11.6B$10.B2A3B$8.2BA2BAB$
7.3BABA3B$6.2A.2BA4B$6.2AB.5B$7.B2.5B.B$10.11B.B$10.7BD10B$8.9B2D10BD
$8.2A4.2B2D9B3DB$9.A4.13BDBD$6.3A5.13BD$6.A7.9B.2B$14.9B$8.2A4.9B$7.B
2AB2.10B$7.4B.12B$3.2B.20B$2.2A22B$2.2A22B$3.B.21B$6.19B$5.19B$5.19B.
B$5.20B2A$4.19B.B2A$2.20B3.B$2.2BC15B$.3BCBC14B$2.2B3C13B$.5BC14B$24B
$3B4.18B4.2A$2B7.17B.BA.A$B8.19B2A$10.19B$9.20B$9.20B$9.13B2A4B$9.12B
A2BA5B$10.11BABA5B2A$11.11BA6B2A$12.18B$10.20B$10.2A.9B2.2B$11.A4.6B$
8.3A7.3B$8.A7.5B$16.2A$17.A$14.3A$14.A!

User avatar
calcyman
Posts: 2412
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by calcyman » January 29th, 2021, 11:07 am

Sphenocorona wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 2:54 am
Here's a new elementary Fx187, made by adding Scorbie's G->blinker to HF157R:
Impressive!!!

It doesn't look as though a regular eater will fit, but a TWIT can suppress that escaping FNG to allow it to be connected to an independent conduit:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 60, rule = LifeHistory
13.2A$13.A$15.A$11.5A$11.A$13.B4A$12.B.A2.A$11.6B4.2A$10.B2A3B6.A$8.
2BA2BAB7.A.AB$7.3BABA3B7.A.AB.B$6.2A.2BA4B8.A3B2A$6.2AB.5B8.3B.B2A$7.
B2.5B.B6.2B3.B$10.11B.4B$10.7BD10B$8.9B2D10BD$8.2A4.2B2D9B3DB$9.A4.
13BDBD$6.3A5.13BD$6.A7.9B.2B$14.9B$8.2A4.9B$7.B2AB2.10B$7.4B.12B$3.2B
.20B$2.2A22B$2.2A22B$3.B.21B$6.19B$5.19B$5.19B.B$5.20B2A$4.19B.B2A$2.
20B3.B$2.2BC15B$.3BCBC14B$2.2B3C13B$.5BC14B$24B$3B4.18B4.2A$2B7.17B.B
A.A$B8.19B2A$10.19B$9.20B$9.20B$9.13B2A4B$9.12BA2BA5B$10.11BABA5B2A$
11.11BA6B2A$12.18B$10.20B$10.2A.9B2.2B$11.A4.6B$8.3A7.3B$8.A7.5B$16.
2A$17.A$14.3A$14.A!
If you need additional clearance, the TWIT can be inducted to the G-to-blinker catalyst:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 60, rule = LifeHistory
13.2A$13.A$15.A$11.5A3.2A$11.A7.A$13.B4A.A$12.B.A2.A.A.AB$11.6B3.A.AB
.B$10.B2A3B5.A3B2A$8.2BA2BAB5.3B.B2A$7.3BABA3B4.2B3.B$6.2A.2BA4B3.4B$
6.2AB.5B5.4B$7.B2.5B.B4.4B$10.11B.4B$10.7BD10B$8.9B2D10BD$8.2A4.2B2D
9B3DB$9.A4.13BDBD$6.3A5.13BD$6.A7.9B.2B$14.9B$8.2A4.9B$7.B2AB2.10B$7.
4B.12B$3.2B.20B$2.2A22B$2.2A22B$3.B.21B$6.19B$5.19B$5.19B.B$5.20B2A$
4.19B.B2A$2.20B3.B$2.2BC15B$.3BCBC14B$2.2B3C13B$.5BC14B$24B$3B4.18B4.
2A$2B7.17B.BA.A$B8.19B2A$10.19B$9.20B$9.20B$9.13B2A4B$9.12BA2BA5B$10.
11BABA5B2A$11.11BA6B2A$12.18B$10.20B$10.2A.9B2.2B$11.A4.6B$8.3A7.3B$
8.A7.5B$16.2A$17.A$14.3A$14.A!
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » February 13th, 2021, 5:59 pm

Jormungant wrote:
February 13th, 2021, 12:59 pm
A renegade spark disallows the mirrored (by rotation) circuit to put it back there, but maybe something else does? (fair clearance I say).
Our best hope is probably using a fishhook instead of a transparent block then attempting to suppress the additional block and preventing the fishhook from getting destroyed.

Code: Select all

x = 25, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
7.A$6.A.A$7.A2$5.5A$2A2.A4.A11.A$A2.A2.A12.3A$.A.A.2A11.A$2A.A5.A8.2A
$3.A4.A.A$3.2A2.A2.A$.2A5.2A$2.A20.2A$2.A.A18.A$3.2A16.A.A$21.2A6$3.C
$3.C.C$3.3C$5.C12$7.2A3.2A$7.2A3.2A5$10.2A$11.A$8.3A$8.A7.2A$16.2A!
However, before going any further, let's observe that the eater 3 is only there to eat a Herschel before it releases its first natural glider. This glider can escape without interfering with the LWSS-creating reaction. However, this makes deleting the rest of the Herschel before it hits the fishhook intended to delete the first Herschel's first block difficult, which is probably why the eater 3 was there in the first place.

Code: Select all

x = 25, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
$9.2A.2A$8.A.A.A.A$9.A3.A2$21.A$19.3A$18.A$18.2A3$.2A$2.A20.2A$2.A.A18.
A$3.2A16.A.A$21.2A6$3.C$3.C.C$3.3C$5.C12$7.2A3.2A$7.2A3.2A5$10.2A$11.
A$8.3A$8.A7.2A$16.2A!
Instead of giving up on extracting that Herschel's first natural glider, let's let the second Herschel crash into the first Herschel's first block.

Code: Select all

x = 25, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
$5.2A$6.A$6.A.A$7.2A$21.A$19.3A$18.A$18.2A4$23.2A$23.A$21.A.A$21.2A6$
3.C$3.C.C$3.3C$5.C12$7.2A3.2A$7.2A3.2A5$10.2A$11.A$8.3A$8.A7.2A$16.2A!
It may be possible to get an additonal signal out of that instead of simply deleting it. I haven't figured out a way to do so yet, but I have three close calls so far.

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
14.2A$14.A$5.D6.A.A$4.2D6.2A$3.2D$4.2D12.A$16.3A$15.A$15.2A4$20.2A$20.
A$18.A.A$18.2A6$C$C.C$3C$2.C12$4.2A3.2A$4.2A3.2A5$7.2A$8.A$5.3A$5.A7.
2A$13.2A!

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 50, rule = LifeHistory
12.2A$12.2A2$20.2A$20.A$18.A.A$3D15.2A$D.D$D2.D19.A$2.2D17.3A$20.A$20.
2A4$25.2A$25.A$23.A.A$23.2A6$5.C$5.C.C$5.3C$7.C12$9.2A3.2A$9.2A3.2A5$
12.2A$13.A$10.3A$10.A7.2A$18.2A!

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory
16.3D$18.D$17.D2$6.2A$6.2A5$15.2A$15.A$13.A.A$13.2A2$18.A$16.3A$15.A$
15.2A4$20.2A$20.A$18.A.A$18.2A6$C$C.C$3C$2.C12$4.2A3.2A$4.2A3.2A5$7.2A
$8.A$5.3A$5.A7.2A$13.2A!
Back to the LWSS-creating reaction, it looks like the attempted block catalysis that fails is the only way to save the fishhook from the immediate threat.

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 48, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A$3.A$3.A.A$4.2A$18.A$16.3A$15.A$15.2A4$20.2A$20.A$18.A.A$18.2A6$C
$C.C$3C$2.C12$4.2A3.2A$4.2A3.2A5$7.2A$8.A$5.3A$5.A5.2A$12.A$9.3A$9.A!

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 46, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A$3.A$3.A.A$4.2A$18.A$16.3A$15.A$15.2A4$20.2A$20.A$18.A.A$18.2A6$C
$C.C$3C$2.C12$4.2A3.2A$4.2A3.2A5$7.2A$8.A$5.3A$5.A8.2A$14.2A!
Therefore, unless a transparent reaction can be found, which seems unlikely, the catalyst will have to be sacrificial. This will increase the repeat time, but we don't have many XWSS-making conduits anyway. The fact the extra block is created so close to where the old one was will complicate matters. First, it must be deleted, luckily, a bandersnatch-rectifier or bandersnatch-boojum combination has the right lane offset to delete it. (I had a feeling that figuring out a way to release that glider would be useful.)

Code: Select all

x = 73, y = 87, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A$3.A$3.A.A$4.2A$18.A$16.3A$15.A$15.2A4$20.2A$20.A$18.A.A$18.2A6$C
$C.C$3C$2.C7$48.2A$48.A2.A.A$50.2A.3A$38.2A16.A$38.2A10.2A.3A$4.2A3.2A
39.2A.A$4.2A3.2A5$7.2E$7.2E44.2A$44.E8.2A$43.E.E$43.E2.E$44.2E$27.2A$
26.A.A$26.A24.2A$25.2A24.2A5$42.2A$42.2A8$69.A$68.A.A$68.A.A$49.2E16.
2A.2A$49.2E$67.2A.2A$31.2A34.2A.A$30.A.A39.A$30.A40.2A$29.2A2$63.2E$63.
2E4.2A$40.2A27.A.A$39.A.A29.A$39.A31.2A$38.2A23.2A$63.2A3$58.A$57.A.A
$58.A!
The only thing left is to restore the sacrificial block. There are probably many ways to do it, but I chose to use a wing sequence because we have several conduits that make it, and it edgeshoots the block well. (It's a good thing that I decided to sort the Elementary Conduits Collection update by output as well as input.)

Code: Select all

x = 73, y = 87, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A$3.A$3.A.A$4.2A$18.A$16.3A$15.A$15.2A4$20.2A$20.A$18.A.A$18.2A6$D
$D.D$3D$2.D7$48.2A$48.A2.A.A$50.2A.3A$38.2A16.A$38.2A10.2A.3A$4.2A3.2A
39.2A.A$4.2A3.2A5$7.2D$7.2D44.2A$44.E8.2A$43.E.E$43.E2.E$44.2E$27.2A$
26.A.A$26.A24.2A$25.2A24.2A4$3.2C$3.C.C36.2A$5.2C35.2A8$69.A$68.A.A$68.
A.A$49.2E16.2A.2A$49.2E$67.2A.2A$31.2A34.2A.A$30.A.A39.A$30.A40.2A$29.
2A2$63.2E$63.2E4.2A$40.2A27.A.A$39.A.A29.A$39.A31.2A$38.2A23.2A$63.2A
3$58.A$57.A.A$58.A!
However, I got stuck on a weld.

Code: Select all

x = 121, y = 98, rule = LifeHistory
2$50.2A$51.A$51.A.A$52.2A$66.A$64.3A$63.A$63.2A4$68.2A$68.A$66.A.A$
66.2A6$48.C$48.C.C$48.3C$50.C7$96.2A$11.A84.A2.A.A$10.A.A23.2B60.2A.
3A$10.A.A22.4B47.2A16.A$8.3A.2A20.4B48.2A10.2A.3A$7.A4.B11.2A7.4B15.
2A3.2A39.2A.A$8.3AB2AB2.2B4.B2AB5.4B16.2A3.2A$10.A.2A6B.7B3.4B$12.22B
$14.19B$13.19B$13.18B24.2E$13.19B23.2E44.2A$10.2B.20B59.E8.2A$9.2A22B
58.E.E$9.2AB.6BE3BC9B58.E2.E$10.B2.5BEBE2B.BC9B57.2E$12.5BE2BE2B2C10B
40.2A$13.5B2E16B38.A.A$13.19B2.B2A37.A24.2A$12.20B2.BA.A35.2A24.2A$
11.2A16B.3B4.A$11.2A21B3.2A14.2B$12.2B.7B2.10B10.2B6.4B$16.6B2.5B14.
4B4.2D3B$17.4B3.5B10.2A3.4B3.DBD2B34.2A$20.2B3.2B.B9.B2AB.6B.3B2D2B.
2B30.2A$14.A4.B2AB5.B6.2B.23B$14.3A3.2A5.2B5.2A26B$17.A8.3B5.2AB.24B$
16.2A7.4B6.B.25B$16.5B3.4B10.4B.10B3D6B$18.3B2.4B17.9BDBD6B$8.2A7.9B
19.8BDBD6B2A$8.A8.8B20.17BA.A52.A$5.2A.A.B3.10B21.15B4.A51.A.A$5.A2.
3AB.2B2A7B22.13B5.2A50.A.A$6.2A2.BA3B2A7B24.12B37.2E16.2A.2A$8.4A12B
24.12B37.2E$8.A.2B3.7B.B2A14.2A7.10B56.2A.2A$9.3AB2.7B.BA.A14.A8.10B
6.2A11.2A34.2A.A$12.A3.5B5.A2.A.A9.A.AB6.11B5.A10.A.A39.A$7.5A5.4B5.
4A.3A8.2AB.3B.11B2E.3A11.A40.2A$7.A10.4B12.A9.17B2EBA12.2A$9.A9.4B5.
2A.3A10.19B$8.2A10.4B4.2A.A13.19B47.2E$13.2A6.9B14.20B47.2E4.2A$14.A
7.6B14.20B26.2A27.A.A$14.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.22B26.A.A29.A$15.A2.A4.19BD
19B.B23.A31.2A$16.2AB3.6BC13BDBD4B.13B2A21.2A23.2A$17.9BCBD2B2E9B3D4B
2.12B2A46.2A$18.9B2C2B2E11BD4B2.11B.B$19.29B3.9B$19.17B.B13.6B.B47.A$
20.15B17.5B48.A.A$20.15B17.4B50.A$21.13B5.A3.2A8.5B$23.13B2.A.A3.A11.
2A$22.8B4.2A.A.A3.A12.A$22.6B6.2ABA4.A14.3A$22.5B8.B2.5A.A14.A$22.B.B
5.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A$23.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A$22.B2AB11.2A.A.2A$23.2A!
I didn't see any other good way to use a wing sequence, so I tried another method. It works, but the repeat time is significantly longer than the wing-based method's repeat time would be.

Code: Select all

x = 154, y = 122, rule = LifeHistory
83.2A$84.A$84.A.A$85.2A$99.A$97.3A$96.A$96.2A4$101.2A$101.A$99.A.A$
99.2A6$81.C$81.C.C$81.3C$83.C7$129.2A$129.A2.A.A$131.2A.3A$119.2A16.A
$119.2A10.2A.3A$85.2A3.2A39.2A.A$85.2A3.2A5$88.2E$88.2E44.2A$125.E8.
2A$124.E.E$85.A38.E2.E$84.A.A38.2E$85.A22.2A$107.A.A$107.A24.2A$106.
2A24.2A5$123.2A$123.2A7$90.2A$90.2A58.A$149.A.A$81.2A.A7.D56.A.A$81.A
.2A6.3D36.2E16.2A.2A$90.2DBDB35.2E$90.5B53.2A.2A$89.6B7.A9.2A34.2A.A$
89.7B4.3A8.A.A39.A$88.7B4.A11.A40.2A$88.7B4.2A9.2A$88.13B$87.8B.3B45.
2E$88.12B3.2B39.2E4.2A$24.3B61.18B15.2A27.A.A$9.A13.4B59.20B14.A.A29.
A$9.3A10.4B57.2B.21B13.A31.2A$12.A8.4B57.2A23B12.2A23.2A$11.2A7.4B58.
2A24B36.2A$11.5B3.4B60.2B.22B$13.3B2.4B63.22B$3.2A7.9B63.21B34.A$3.A
8.8B46.B15.22B34.A.A$2A.A.B3.10B47.2B13.23B35.A$A2.3AB.2B2E2BC4B47.3B
11.24B$.2A2.BA3B2E2BDBC2B47.4B9.25B$3.4A7B2C3B48.4B8.25B$3.A.2B3.7B.B
2A47.4B2.4B.25B$4.3AB2.7B.BA.A47.4B.29B$7.A4.4B5.A48.33B$2.5A5.4B5.2A
48.30B$2.A10.4B55.31B$4.A9.4B23.A28.B2.24B4.2A$3.2A10.4B22.3A12.B.3B.
B5.29B4.A$16.4B24.A10.41B6.3A$17.4B10.A11.2A3.B5.2B2E11BDB2E22B9.A$
18.4B7.3A11.8B3.2B2E9B3DB2E21B$19.4B5.A16.8B.13BDBD23B$20.4B4.2A15.
22BD24B$13.2A6.9B14.15B.2B2.28B$14.A7.6B14.17B7.4B2.7B.12B$14.A.2A5.
6B3.B2.2B2.19B14.6B2.10B.B2A$15.A2.A4.19BD15B16.3B3.10B.BA.A$16.2AB3.
6BC13BDBD4B.7B18.B4.9B5.A$17.9BCBD2B2E9B3D13B23.8B5.2A$18.9B2C2B2E11B
D14B22.9B$19.29B2.8B24.9B$19.17B.B14.6B24.9B$20.15B17.5B25.3B3.4B$20.
15B18.4B30.4B$21.13B5.A3.2A8.3B30.B2A2B$23.13B2.A.A3.A9.4B29.2A$22.8B
4.2A.A.A3.A12.2A$22.6B6.2ABA4.A13.A$22.5B8.B2.5A.A12.3A$22.B.B5.2A.A.
2A.A4.A.A13.A$23.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A$22.B2AB11.2A.A.2A$23.2A!
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
calcyman
Posts: 2412
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by calcyman » February 13th, 2021, 7:27 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
February 13th, 2021, 5:59 pm
The fact the extra block is created so close to where the old one was will complicate matters.
It works to our advantage; a block can be shifted by exactly (3,0) with a single Herschel:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A$8.A$8.A.AB$9.2AB.2B$11.5B7.A$10.7B4.3A$10.7B3.A$10.8B2.2A$9.13B$
9.11B$8.13B$9.12B4.2A$9.12B4.A$8.13B.BA.A$7.14B.B2A$7.16B$8.14B$7.16B
$5.18B$3.19B$3.2BC17B$2.3BCBC4B.11B$3.2B3C4B2.11B$2.5BC4B2.17B$.10B4.
16B$4B10.17B$3B12.16B$2B13.16B$B14.11B.4B$14.13B.3B$14.12B3.2B$13.14B
3.B$14.14B$10.18B$10.19B$9.2A3B2A14B$9.2A3B2A15B$10.B.19B$12.18B$14.
15B$9.B.18B$8.4B2DB2C11B$8.4B2DB2C11B$7.17B.3B$5.17B$3.17B$3.2BC12B$
2.3BCBC4B.6B$3.2B3C4B.5B$2.5BC10B$.10B.6B$4B$3B$2B$B!
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

Jormungant
Posts: 336
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Jormungant » February 13th, 2021, 7:33 pm

well, I think good recovery time mechanism might exist. Just need to think outside the box...

Code: Select all

x = 90, y = 89, rule = LifeHistory
6$50.C$49.C.C$50.C2$48.5C$43.2C2.C4.C11.C$43.C2.C.BCB5.5B.3C$44.C.C.
2CB7.3BC$43.2C.C.4BC4.4B2C$46.C3.BCBC3.6B$46.2C2.C2BC2.7B$44.2C5.2C
10B$45.C7.10B3.2C$45.C.CB4.9B4.C$46.2C14B.BC.C$48.14B.B2C$48.16B$49.
14B$48.16B$46.18B$43.20B$41.5BC17B$41.5BCBC4B.11B$41.5B3C4B2.11B$41.
7BC4B2.14B$41.11B4.13B$41.4B10.14B$41.3B12.13B$40.2C.2B11.13B$41.C.B
12.11B$38.3C14.13B$38.C16.12B$55.13B$55.14B$50.2C3.14B$45.2A3.2C3.14B
$20.2A24.A8.2A12B$21.A13.2A6.3A9.2A12B$21.A.AB9.B2A2B4.A11.14B$22.2AB
.3B6.4B.3B3.B8.14B$24.7B2.11B2.B8.14B$24.24B6.15B$25.23B8.2C11B$24.
24B8.2C11B$22.26B6.15B$20.28B8.7B2.2B$20.ABC2B2A21B7.6B4.2B$19.BABDAC
2BAB.18B9.B$20.2BD2C2BAB2.16B$19.2B2ABDABAB2.7B.4B$18.10B4.6B2.2B$17.
4B11.6B$17.3B13.3B$15.4B12.7B$15.2A14.2A.B.2A$16.A15.A3.A$13.3A13.3A
5.3A$13.A15.A9.A17$74.3C$74.C$75.C!
I found 2 ways to eat the block at the right time and and keep progression toward promised lwss, but I can fix proper eaters where I need them. I am sure there are many other sparks that could do the trick, just no search algorithm for that task.

addendum, just saw the last post, well that works! I wish I had some block mover collection somewhere, is there such a thing? well, time for making the smallest G-to-lwss it seems ^^

User avatar
calcyman
Posts: 2412
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by calcyman » February 13th, 2021, 7:47 pm

I wrote:
MathAndCode wrote:
February 13th, 2021, 5:59 pm
The fact the extra block is created so close to where the old one was will complicate matters.
It works to our advantage; a block can be shifted by exactly (3,0) with a single Herschel:
Here's a preliminary attempt, which (unnecessarily!) happens to produce both Herschels at the same generation:

Code: Select all

x = 115, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
45.2A44.2A$44.B2AB11.2A.A.2A26.A$45.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A25.A.AB$44.B.B
5.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A13.A11.2AB.2B$44.5B8.B2.5A.A12.3A13.5B7.A$44.6B6.2ABA
4.A13.A15.7B4.3A$44.8B4.2A.A.A3.A12.2A14.7B3.A$45.13B2.A.A3.A9.4B14.
8B2.2A$43.13B3.B.A3.2A8.3B15.13B$42.15B2.2B14.4B14.11B$26.A15.15B2.3B
12.5B13.13B$24.3A14.17B.4B11.6B13.12B4.2A$23.A17.29B2.8B13.12B4.A$12.
A10.2A15.9B2D2B2A11BD14B11.13B.BA.A$11.A.A6.5B10.2A2.9BDBD2B2A9B3D13B
11.14B.B2A$11.A.A5.4B12.A2.2AB3.6BD13BDBD4B.7B12.16B$9.3A.2A3.6B12.2A
2.A4.19BD15B12.14B$8.A4.B4.6B9.3A3.A5.6B3.B2.2B2.19B11.16B$2.A6.3AB2A
B.7B8.A3.3A5.6B14.17B8.18B$2.3A6.A.2AB2.6B.2B5.2A2.A6.9B14.15B.2B2.
20B$5.A7.21B8.4B4.2A15.22BD17B$4.2A3.B5.17B9.4B5.A16.8B.13BDBD4B.11B$
4.8B2.15B2A2B7.4B7.3A11.8B3.2B2A9B3D4B2.11B$6.22BA2BA2B5.4B10.A11.2A
3.B5.2B2A11BD4B2.17B$6.23B2A3B4.4B24.A10.18B4.16B$5.19B3.9B.4B22.3A
12.B.3B.4B10.17B$3.21B4.12B23.A19.4B12.16B$.24B4.10B43.4B13.16B$.2BC
14B4.4B3.9B43.4B14.11B.4B$3BCBC4B.6B6.4B.9B44.3B14.13B.3B$.2B3C4B2.B.
5B5.4B.7B62.12B3.2B$5BC4B7.2A6.10B30.A13.2A16.14B3.B$9B8.A8.4B.2B32.
3A12.A17.14B$2B16.3A6.4B37.A8.3A14.18B$B19.A7.4B35.2A4.2B2.A16.19B$
29.4B30.B3.8B18.2A3B2A14B$30.4B27.4B4.7B17.2A3B2A15B$31.4B25.6B.9B18.
B.19B$32.4B10.A13.6B.10B19.18B$33.4B7.3A12.19B20.15B$34.4B5.A14.19B
16.B.18B$35.4B4.2A13.17B17.4B2DB2C11B$28.2A6.9B14.15B18.4B2DB2C11B$
29.A7.6B14.17B17.17B.3B$29.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.22B13.17B$30.A2.A4.19BD
21B3.2B2.18B$31.2AB3.6BD13BDBD4B.24BD12B$32.9BDBD2B2A9B3D4B2.23BDBD4B
.6B$33.9B2D2B2A11BD4B2.23B3D4B.5B$34.29B4.24BD10B$34.17B.4B10.29B.6B$
35.15B2.3B12.16B.4B$35.15B2.2B13.12B5.3B$36.13B3.B.A3.2A7.9B6.4B$38.
13B2.A.A3.A6.11B5.2A$37.8B4.2A.A.A3.A8.7B.B2A5.A$37.6B6.2ABA4.A11.4B
2.BA.A.3A$37.5B8.B2.5A.A8.B2A2B5.A.A$37.B.B5.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A8.2A7.2A$
38.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A$37.B2AB11.2A.A.2A$38.2A!
Can anyone reduce either the bounding box, or repeat time, or both?
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » February 13th, 2021, 8:26 pm

calcyman wrote:
February 13th, 2021, 7:27 pm
It works to our advantage; a block can be shifted by exactly (3,0) with a single Herschel:
Thank you for informing me of that. I managed to chain together a solution using that.

Code: Select all

x = 93, y = 82, rule = LifeHistory
3$69.2A$70.A$70.A.AB$21.2A48.2AB.2B$20.B2AB11.2A.A.2A31.5B7.A$21.3B4.
A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A29.7B4.3A$20.B.B5.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A28.7B3.A$20.5B8.B2.5A.
A29.8B2.2A$20.6B6.2ABA4.A30.13B$20.8B4.2A.A.A3.A29.11B$21.13B2.A.A3.A
4.A22.13B$19.13B5.A3.2A4.3A7.2A12.12B4.2A$18.15B2.2B13.A6.A13.12B4.A$
18.15B2.3B11.2A3.BA.A12.13B.BA.A$17.17B.4B10.4B.B2A12.14B.B2A$17.29B
5.4B14.16B$16.13B2E11BD4B3.5B15.14B$15.14B2E9B3D4B2.7B13.16B$14.2AB3.
20BDBD4B.9B6.3B.18B$13.A2.A4.19BD16B5.22B$12.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.20B5.5B
D17B$12.A7.6B14.20B2.5BDBD4B.11B$11.2A6.9B14.25B3D4B2.11B$18.4B4.2A
15.26BD4B2.17B$5.2A10.4B5.A15.31B4.16B$6.A9.4B7.3A12.28B6.17B$4.A10.
4B10.A13.28B6.16B$4.5A5.4B5.2A18.28B6.16B$9.A4.4B5.A21.25B7.11B.4B$6.
3AB2.7B.BA.A19.5B.20B7.13B.3B$5.A.2B3.7B.B2A20.2AB4.12B3.2B9.12B3.2B$
5.4A7B2C3B23.A4.14B12.14B3.B$3.2A2.BA3B2E2BDBC2B20.3A3.A.2AB.7B.B14.
14B$2.A2.3AB.2B2E2BC4B20.A2.4AB2AB3.6B11.18B$2.2A.A.B3.10B23.A4.B3.4B
.3B11.19B$5.A8.8B24.2A.2A2.2A4.4B8.2A3B2A14B$5.2A7.9B24.A.A4.A6.2A8.
2A3B2A15B$15.3B2.4B23.A2.4A7.A10.B.19B$13.5B3.4B23.A.A2.A.A6.3A9.18B$
13.2A7.4B23.A4.2A8.A11.15B$14.A8.4B44.B.18B$11.3A10.4B20.A21.4B2DB2C
11B$11.A13.4B19.3A5.2A12.4B2DB2C11B$26.3B22.A3.B2AB10.17B.3B$50.2A4.
3B8.17B$50.5B2.B2.2B2.2B.15B$52.15BD12B$51.2A14BDBD4B.6B$41.A9.2A3B2E
9B3D4B.5B$41.3A8.B.2B2E11BD10B$44.A9.19B.6B$43.2A11.7B4.3B$35.4B4.4B
9.6B5.4B$36.4B4.4B7.8B4.4B$37.4B4.4B7.6B5.3B$38.4B4.4B6.6B5.2B$39.4B
4.4B6.6B$40.4B4.4B5.7B$41.4B4.4B4.6B$42.4B4.13B$43.20B$44.5BC13B$45.
2B3C13B$44.3BCBC14B$45.2BC18B$45.21B$47.20B$49.18B$50.17B$49.19B$49.
21B$49.21B$51.20B$50.20B$50.19B$51.18B$51.17B$52.16B$53.14B!
However, there's probably a better way.
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
bubblegum
Posts: 895
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm
Location: click here to do nothing

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by bubblegum » February 13th, 2021, 11:55 pm

Analysing both, Calcyman's raw bounding box (catalysts only) is larger than M&C's, but the effective bounding box is smaller, due to the large Fx119 plume sticking out of the contraption. Calcyman's H-to-LWSS has a repeat time of 165, while M&C's has an embarrassingly perfect repeat time of 500 and an inconvenient Fx119 glider crossing the Herschel's path.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

User avatar
JP21
Posts: 1431
Joined: October 26th, 2019, 5:39 am
Location: PH

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by JP21 » February 14th, 2021, 12:11 am

I think this is more horrible:

Code: Select all

x = 90, y = 105, rule = LifeHistory
30.2A$30.A.A$32.A4.2A$28.4A.2A2.A2.A$28.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$30.BABABA.A$31.
B2ABA.A$32.2B.BA$31.3B$22.2A6.4B$23.A6.B2A3B25.A$23.A.AB3.B2A3B24.A.A
$24.2AB.10B22.A.A$26.13B20.2A.3A$26.5B3D6B7.2A11.B4.A$26.7BD7B5.B2AB
4.2B2.B2AB3A$28.4BD3B2.4B3.7B.6B2A.A$28.6B5.22B$27.9B4.19B$26.4B4.2A
5.19B$25.4B5.A7.18B$24.4B7.3A3.19B$23.4B10.A2.20B.2B$22.4B14.22B2A$
21.4B15.9BD3BA6B.B2A$20.4B14.9BDBD2BABA5B2.B7.2A$19.4B15.10B2D2BA2BA
5B10.A$18.4B15.16B2A5B11.A.AB$17.4B15.2AB2.19B12.2AB.2B$16.4B15.A.AB
2.20B13.5B7.A$3.2A10.4B16.A4.3B.16B2A11.7B4.3A$4.A9.4B16.2A3.21B2A11.
7B3.A$2.A10.4B22.10B2.7B.2B12.8B2.2A$2.5A5.4B5.2A16.10B2.6B15.13B$7.A
4.4B5.A19.8B3.4B16.11B$4.3AB2.7B.BA.A19.4B.2B3.2B18.13B$3.A.2B3.7B.B
2A21.3B5.B2AB18.12B4.2A$3.4A7B2D3B23.4B5.2A19.12B4.A$.2A2.BA3B2A2BDBD
2B24.4B10.A13.13B.BA.A$A2.3AB.2B2A2BD4B25.4B7.3A12.14B.B2A$2A.A.B3.
10B26.4B5.A15.16B$3.A8.8B26.4B4.2A15.14B$3.2A7.9B18.2A6.9B14.16B$13.
3B2.4B18.A7.6B14.18B$11.5B3.4B17.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.20B$11.2A7.4B17.A2.
A4.19BD17B$12.A8.4B17.2AB3.6BD13BDBD4B.11B$9.3A10.4B17.9BDBD2B2A9B3D
4B2.11B$9.A13.4B17.9B2D2B2A11BD4B2.13B$24.4B17.29B4.12B$25.4B16.17B.
4B10.13B$26.4B16.15B3.2B12.12B$27.4B15.15B3.3B11.12B$28.4B15.13B5.A2B
.2A7.11B$29.4B16.13B2.A.A2B.A6.13B$30.4B14.8B4.2A.A.AB2.A7.12B$31.4B
13.6B6.2ABA4.A7.14B$32.4B12.5B8.B2.5A.A6.13B$33.4B11.B.B5.2A.A.2A.A4.
2A2.17B$34.4B11.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A5.17B$35.4B9.B2AB11.2A.A5.2A3B2A11B$
36.4B9.2A15.A5.2A3B2A11B$37.4B25.2A5.B.15B$38.4B5.4A24.15B$39.4B4.A3.
A25.13B$40.4B6.2A20.B.16B$41.4B5.6B15.4B2DB2C10B$42.4B6.5B14.4B2DB2C
10B$43.4B4.7B12.8B.8B.2B$44.4B2.8B10.11B.5B$45.14B2.2B2.14B3.B$46.22B
D8B$42.2A3.21BDBD4B$43.A4.20B3D4B$43.A.AB.22BD4B$44.2A28B$45.17B.4B$
47.19B$38.A10.16B$38.3A8.15B$41.A7.14B$28.A11.2A3.B3.13B$26.3A11.8B.
12B$25.A16.18B$25.2A15.17B$10.2A10.5B14.17B$11.A9.A3B14.18B$11.A.2A6.
B2A2B3.B2.2B2.20B$12.A2.A4.B2A16BD15B$13.2AB3.6BD13BDBD4B.9B$14.9BDBD
2B2A9B3D4B2.7B$15.9B2D2B2A11BD4B4.5B$16.29B3.5B$16.17B.B.2B10.2A$17.
15B4.3B10.A$17.15B5.A2B.2A3.3A$18.13B5.A.A2B.A3.A$20.13B2.A.AB2.A$19.
8B4.2A.A.A3.A$19.6B6.2ABA2.4A.A$19.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A$19.B.B9.2A.2A2.A2.
A.A$20.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A$19.B2AB9.A.A$20.2A11.A!

MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » February 14th, 2021, 1:09 am

bubblegum wrote:
February 13th, 2021, 11:55 pm
Analysing both, Calcyman's raw bounding box (catalysts only) is larger than M&C's, but the effective bounding box is smaller, due to the large Fx119 plume sticking out of the contraption. Calcyman's H-to-LWSS has a repeat time of 165, while M&C's has an embarrassingly perfect repeat time of 500 and an inconvenient Fx119 glider crossing the Herschel's path.
I didn't see Calcyman's post until I had posted my solution. As you can probably tell, I typically try to avoid downconversion when building things like these.

By the way, I added three more conduits to the Elementary Conduits Collection update draft, including Calcyman's H->L. I'm attaching the newest version to this post.
Attachments
ECC update draft.txt
(480.33 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
bubblegum
Posts: 895
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm
Location: click here to do nothing

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by bubblegum » February 14th, 2021, 2:48 am

JP21 wrote:
February 14th, 2021, 12:11 am
I think this is more horrible:
Pretty much, yeah, even taking in your signature pessimism. As a pure H-to-LWSS, it's pretty big and has a repeat time of 623.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » February 22nd, 2021, 10:32 pm

Which of the following is the appropriate way to mark the output?
  • using the canonical form

    Code: Select all

    x = 27, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
    16.B$13.B.4B$12.8B$10.10B3.B$8.B.10B.5B$7.2A17B$7.2A16B2A$8.2B.3BD8B.
    B2A$12.B3D5B4.B$12.2D2BD4B$11.8B$11.7B$10.11B$11.11B$12.10B$11.11B$9.
    2A7B3CB$4.2A2.A2BA3.4BC2B$.A2.A3.BABA3.2B3C2B$A.A.A.4BA5.6B$.A2.A.2AB
    7.7B$4.A.BAB9.B.4B$5.A4.A10.4B$6.5A11.4B$23.4B$8.A15.3B$7.A.A15.2B$8.
    A17.B!
  • using a form with the same child

    Code: Select all

    x = 27, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
    16.B$13.B.4B$12.8B$10.10B3.B$8.B.10B.5B$7.2A17B$7.2A16B2A$8.2B.3BD8B.
    B2A$12.B3D5B4.B$12.3D6B$11.8B$11.7B$10.11B$11.11B$12.10B$11.11B$9.2A7B
    3CB$4.2A2.A2BA3.4BC2B$.A2.A3.BABA3.2B3C2B$A.A.A.4BA5.6B$.A2.A.2AB7.7B
    $4.A.BAB9.B.4B$5.A4.A10.4B$6.5A11.4B$23.4B$8.A15.3B$7.A.A15.2B$8.A17.B!
  • using the form at the canonical time

    Code: Select all

    x = 27, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
    16.B$13.B.4B$12.8B$10.10B3.B$8.B.10B.5B$7.2A17B$7.2A16B2A$8.2B.5BD6B.
    B2A$12.4D5B4.B$12.3D6B$11.8B$11.7B$10.11B$11.11B$12.10B$11.11B$9.2A7B
    3CB$4.2A2.A2BA3.4BC2B$.A2.A3.BABA3.2B3C2B$A.A.A.4BA5.6B$.A2.A.2AB7.7B
    $4.A.BAB9.B.4B$5.A4.A10.4B$6.5A11.4B$23.4B$8.A15.3B$7.A.A15.2B$8.A17.B!
  • giving up

    Code: Select all

    x = 27, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
    16.B$13.B.4B$12.8B$10.10B3.B$8.B.10B.5B$7.2A17B$7.2A16B2A$8.2B.12B.B2A
    $12.9B4.B$12.9B$11.8B$11.7B$10.11B$11.11B$12.10B$11.11B$9.2A7B3CB$4.2A
    2.A2BA3.4BC2B$.A2.A3.BABA3.2B3C2B$A.A.A.4BA5.6B$.A2.A.2AB7.7B$4.A.BAB
    9.B.4B$5.A4.A10.4B$6.5A11.4B$23.4B$8.A15.3B$7.A.A15.2B$8.A17.B!
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7856
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » February 22nd, 2021, 10:42 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 10:32 pm
Which of the following is the appropriate way to mark the output?
  • using the canonical form...
  • using a form with the same child...
  • using the form at the canonical time...
  • giving up
Just use the canonical form. The main use of those LifeHistory markings is to allow conduits to be copied and pasted next to each other, overlapping input marks with output marks. With any of the other options, you can't do that kind of editing conveniently at all.

MathAndCode
Posts: 4486
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by MathAndCode » February 22nd, 2021, 10:50 pm

dvgrn wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 10:42 pm
Just use the canonical form. The main use of those LifeHistory markings is to allow conduits to be copied and pasted next to each other, overlapping input marks with output marks. With any of the other options, you can't do that kind of editing conveniently at all.
I do that most of the time. The only exception is B outputs. There were some B heptominoes as outputs in the Elementary Conduits Collection, so I continued that practice.
Attachments
ECC update draft.txt
(525.95 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

User avatar
Entity Valkyrie 2
Posts: 1040
Joined: February 26th, 2019, 7:13 pm
Location: Hijuatl, Zumaland
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » February 24th, 2021, 1:44 am

I tend to use this form.

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2o$b2o$2o$o!
Bx222 IS MY WORST ENEMY.

Please click here for my own pages.

My recent rules:
StateInvestigator 3.0
B3-kq4ej5i6ckn7e/S2-i34q6a7
B3-kq4ej5y6c/S2-i34q5e
Move the Box

User avatar
wwei47
Posts: 631
Joined: February 18th, 2021, 11:18 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by wwei47 » March 3rd, 2021, 9:41 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 10:32 pm
Which of the following is the appropriate way to mark the output?
I know that this is kind of old, but I'd like to share my opinion on the matter. I prefer to use the first form that appears in the evolutionary sequence of the canonical form. Two examples from P1008 gun reduction attempts, though in the first one, I failed to recognize the first generation of the C-heptomino:

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 53, rule = LifeHistory
19.A$3.2A13.A.A$3.2A16.A$18.A.A2$14.3A$13.A.A.2A$14.A$6.A10.2A$5.A.A$
5.A.A$6.A$12.A$13.A$13.A$11.A$11.A$12.A$18.A$17.A.A8.A$17.A.A6.3A$6.2A
10.A6.A$10.A14.2A$6.2A.A.A$8.3A2$4.A.A$3.A18.3D$4.A.A15.D2.2D$5.A17.3D
$24.D3$36.A$34.3A$24.3D6.A$24.D8.2A$23.3D7$33.2A$33.A.A$33.A4$.2A$A.A
$2.A!

Code: Select all

x = 188, y = 131, rule = LifeHistory
99.A$83.2A13.A.A$83.2A16.A$98.A.A2$94.3A$93.A.A.2A$94.A$86.A10.2A$85.
A.A$85.A.A$86.A$92.A$93.A$93.A$91.A38.A$91.A22.2A13.A.A$92.A22.A13.A.
A$98.A16.A.A10.2A.3A$97.A.A16.2A16.A$97.A.A28.2A.3A$86.2A10.A29.2A.A$
90.A$86.2A.A.A$88.3A2$84.A.A10.2D9.D7.D$83.A12.D2.D9.D6.D.D$84.A.A8.2D
.2D9.2D5.3D$85.A11.D10.2D8.D$108.D14$113.2A$113.A.A$113.A10$73.2A$72.
A.A$74.A22$149.2A$149.A.A$149.A10$37.2A$36.A.A$38.A22$185.2A$185.A.A$
185.A10$.2A$A.A$2.A!
In this case, I would use this form.

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
16.B$13.B.4B$12.8B$10.10B3.B$8.B.10B.5B$7.2A17B$7.2A16B2A$8.2B.2B3D7B
.B2A$12.D2BD5B4.B$12.D2BD5B$11.2BD5B$11.7B$10.11B$11.11B$12.10B$11.11B
$9.2A7B3CB$4.2A2.A2BA3.4BC2B$.A2.A3.BABA3.2B3C2B$A.A.A.4BA5.6B$.A2.A.
2AB7.7B$4.A.BAB9.B.4B$5.A4.A10.4B$6.5A11.4B$23.4B$8.A15.3B$7.A.A15.2B
$8.A17.B!

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 17, rule = Symbiosis
11.A$9.2A.A$3.A$2.3A3.A6.A$.A2.A3.2A5.A$A7.A.3A2.2A$A.3A4.A.4A.3A$.2A
2.B3.A4.A$B.B8.2A$13.A$12.2A$7.B3.2A4.2B$8.2A.A5.A$10.A3.A$9.2AB.B$8.
A2.2B4.B$8.B9.A!

User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
Posts: 7856
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Post by dvgrn » March 11th, 2021, 8:47 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
March 11th, 2021, 6:15 am
P532 gun...
H-to-G1...
So, that's a clean B266 conduit with a G1 output. That's new, isn't it?

G1 outputs can be kind of handy, because any lane with either glider color at 90 degrees to the G1 can be reached by adding a semi-cenark, usually with a couple of different choices for timing mod 8.

Code: Select all

x = 159, y = 165, rule = LifeHistory
135.4B$136.4B$11.2A.2A92.2A.2A24.4B$12.A.A94.A.A26.4B$7.2A.A5.A.2A84.
2A.A5.A.2A22.4B$6.A.A.2A3.2A.A.A82.A.A.2A3.2A.A.A22.4B$5.A2.B2.BA.AB
2.B2.A30.2A48.A2.B2.BA.AB2.B2.A22.4B4.2A$5.7AB.B7A30.A49.7AB.B7A23.4B
3.A.A$9.3B.B.3B22.A12.A52.3B.B.3B28.4B4.A$7.3AB.3B.B3A20.3A7.4A50.3AB
.3B.B3A27.4B2.2A.2A.A$6.A.BA3BA3BAB.A22.A6.A52.A.BA3BA3BAB.A27.7B.A.
2A$6.2A3.BABAB3.2A21.2A8.B3A47.2A3.BABAB3.2A26.6B3.A$11.BABAB26.5B5.B
A2.A51.BABAB22.2A6.7B2.2A$11.2BA2B28.9B2.2A51.2BA2B23.A5.BA6B$11.2B.
2B22.AB3.10B55.2B.2B23.A.AB2.ABA5B$9.B.5B21.A.AB.12B52.B.5B24.2AB.2B
2A5B$7.9B16.2A3.2A16B49.9B26.12B$7.8B2A15.A2.2A3.16B48.8B2A25.12B$6.
2A6BA2BA15.2A2.2A8B2A3B.4B46.2A6BA2BA24.12B$6.2AB.5B2AB17.A2.A.7BABAB
3.4B45.2AB.5B2AB24.10B.B2A$7.B2.8B17.2A4.7BAB5.4B45.B2.8B24.9B2.BA.A$
10.8B3.2B18.7B8.4B47.8B3.2B17.10B6.A$11.12B17.7B10.4B47.12B16.5B2.5B
5.2A$11.14B14.10B9.4B46.14B13.5B4.B.BAB$11.15B12.4B5.2A10.4B45.15B12.
4B4.2A.A.A$9.18B10.5B5.A12.3B43.18B11.3B6.A.2A$7.21B8.5B7.3A10.2B41.
21B10.2B5.A2.A$7.2BA19B6.5B10.A11.B41.2BA19B9.B6.2A.A$6.3BABA19B3.5B
64.3BABA19B3.5B8.A$7.2B3A20B.7B64.2B3A20B.7B7.A.A$6.5BA29B2.B59.5BA
29B2.B4.2A$5.10B.25B.B2A57.10B.25B.B2A$4.4B9.26B2A56.4B9.26B2A$3.4B
10.24B.2B56.4B10.24B.2B$18.23B74.23B$2.2A14.24B57.2A14.24B$3.A16.23B
57.A16.23B$3A17.24B53.3A17.24B$A19.23B54.A19.23B$19.25B72.25B$19.24B
7.2A64.24B7.2A$20.23B7.A66.23B7.A$20.25B2.BA.A66.25B2.BA.A$20.26B.B2A
67.26B.B2A$19.4B.8B2.14B68.4B.8B2.14B$18.4B3.7B3.13B67.4B3.7B3.13B$
17.4B5.5B5.12B66.4B5.5B5.12B$16.4B4.B.7B4.10B66.4B4.B.7B4.10B$15.4B.
13B3.11B65.4B.13B3.11B$5.B2.35B.2B56.B2.35B.2B$4.7BD33B56.7BD33B$4.7B
3D31B56.7B3D31B$2.9BDBD15B2A13B55.9BDBD15B2A13B$2.11BD15B2A6B.6B55.
11BD15B2A6B.6B$.BA14B2.2B3.11B2.7B54.BA14B2.2B3.11B2.7B$.ABA10B11.10B
2.5B56.ABA10B11.10B2.5B$.ABA8B16.6B3.6B55.ABA8B16.6B3.6B$2.A8B19.3B5.
4B57.A8B19.3B5.4B$2.10B20.B6.AB3.2A53.10B20.B6.AB3.2A$3.9B20.2A4.A.A.
A2.A54.9B20.2A4.A.A.A2.A$4.8B21.A3.A.2A.2A57.8B21.A3.A.2A.2A$4.7B19.
3A4.A63.7B19.3A4.A$5.5B20.A5.2A64.5B20.A5.2A$7.2B95.2B34$130.4B$131.
4B$132.4B$133.4B$134.5B$135.5B$11.2A.2A92.2A.2A23.5B$12.A.A94.A.A25.
5B10.2A$7.2A.A5.A.2A36.2A46.2A.A5.A.2A21.5B10.A$6.A.A.2A3.2A.A.A35.A
46.A.A.2A3.2A.A.A21.5B3.2A4.A.2A.A$5.A2.B2.BA.AB2.B2.A35.A44.A2.B2.BA
.AB2.B2.A21.5B.B2AB2.2A.A.2A$5.7AB.B7A30.2A2.2A44.7AB.B7A22.8B2.B$9.
3B.B.3B22.A11.A.A51.3B.B.3B27.6B.3B3A$7.3AB.3B.B3A20.3A11.A.4A44.3AB.
3B.B3A26.9BA2.A$6.A.BA3BA3BAB.A22.A8.B2A.A2.A43.A.BA3BA3BAB.A26.9B.2A
$6.2A3.BABAB3.2A21.2A7.5B47.2A3.BABAB3.2A26.8B$11.BABAB26.5B4.4B53.BA
BAB22.2A6.7B$11.2BA2B28.11B.B51.2BA2B23.A5.BA6B$11.2B.2B18.2A2.AB3.
11B.B2A50.2B.2B23.A.AB2.ABA5B$9.B.5B18.A2.A.AB.14B2A48.B.5B24.2AB.2B
2A5B$7.9B19.A.2A18B47.9B26.12B$7.8B2A19.A3.16B48.8B2A25.12B$6.2A6BA2B
A19.2A8B2A3B.4B46.2A6BA2BA24.12B$6.2AB.5B2AB20.A.7BABAB3.4B45.2AB.5B
2AB24.10B.B2A$7.B2.8B18.A4.7BAB5.4B45.B2.8B24.9B2.BA.A$10.8B3.2B13.2A
3.7B8.4B47.8B3.2B17.10B6.A$11.12B17.7B10.4B47.12B16.5B2.5B5.2A$11.14B
14.10B9.4B46.14B13.5B4.B.BAB$11.15B12.4B5.2A10.4B45.15B12.4B4.2A.A.A$
9.18B10.5B5.A12.3B43.18B11.3B6.A.2A$7.21B8.5B7.3A10.2B41.21B10.2B5.A
2.A$7.2BA19B6.5B10.A11.B41.2BA19B9.B6.2A.A$6.3BABA19B3.5B64.3BABA19B
3.5B8.A$7.2B3A20B.7B64.2B3A20B.7B7.A.A$6.5BA29B2.B59.5BA29B2.B4.2A$5.
10B.25B.B2A57.10B.25B.B2A$4.4B9.26B2A56.4B9.26B2A$3.4B10.24B.2B56.4B
10.24B.2B$18.23B74.23B$2.2A14.24B57.2A14.24B$3.A16.23B57.A16.23B$3A
17.24B53.3A17.24B$A19.23B54.A19.23B$19.25B72.25B$19.24B7.2A64.24B7.2A
$20.23B7.A66.23B7.A$20.25B2.BA.A66.25B2.BA.A$20.26B.B2A67.26B.B2A$19.
4B.8B2.14B68.4B.8B2.14B$18.4B3.7B3.13B67.4B3.7B3.13B$17.4B5.5B5.12B
66.4B5.5B5.12B$16.4B4.B.7B4.10B66.4B4.B.7B4.10B$15.4B.13B3.11B65.4B.
13B3.11B$5.B2.35B.2B56.B2.35B.2B$4.7BD33B56.7BD33B$4.7B3D31B56.7B3D
31B$2.9BDBD15B2A13B55.9BDBD15B2A13B$2.11BD15B2A6B.6B55.11BD15B2A6B.6B
$.BA14B2.2B3.11B2.7B54.BA14B2.2B3.11B2.7B$.ABA10B11.10B2.5B56.ABA10B
11.10B2.5B$.ABA8B16.6B3.6B55.ABA8B16.6B3.6B$2.A8B19.3B5.4B57.A8B19.3B
5.4B$2.10B20.B6.AB3.2A53.10B20.B6.AB3.2A$3.9B20.2A4.A.A.A2.A54.9B20.
2A4.A.A.A2.A$4.8B21.A3.A.2A.2A57.8B21.A3.A.2A.2A$4.7B19.3A4.A63.7B19.
3A4.A$5.5B20.A5.2A64.5B20.A5.2A$7.2B95.2B!
A small enough G1 emitter might end up getting used quite a lot in glider-synchronization circuits, but I'm not sure this B266 quite qualifies!

Anyway, we've definitely drifted out of the realm of elementary conduits, so I'll put this response in the Herschel Conduits thread, but will leave the original message in the Elementary Conduits thread for context.

User avatar
wwei47
Posts: 631
Joined: February 18th, 2021, 11:18 am

Re: The Hunting of the Elementary Conduits

Post by wwei47 » March 11th, 2021, 9:06 am

dvgrn wrote:
March 11th, 2021, 8:47 am
G1 outputs can be kind of handy, because any lane with either glider color at 90 degrees to the G1 can be reached by adding a semi-cenark, usually with a couple of different choices for timing mod 8.
Can't we just use a highway robber to separate the gliders?

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 17, rule = Symbiosis
11.A$9.2A.A$3.A$2.3A3.A6.A$.A2.A3.2A5.A$A7.A.3A2.2A$A.3A4.A.4A.3A$.2A
2.B3.A4.A$B.B8.2A$13.A$12.2A$7.B3.2A4.2B$8.2A.A5.A$10.A3.A$9.2AB.B$8.
A2.2B4.B$8.B9.A!

Post Reply