HBK Synth and Gun (script)

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simsim314
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HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by simsim314 » December 30th, 2014, 9:54 pm

Following the discussions about guns of large ships, I've made a synth and gun (script) for parallel HBK.

To see the synth rle go here.

Or run the script that can be found here.

The script requires either hbk.data file in the same place of the script (attached, and here), or the parallel hbk in active window.

To setup the script to create the gun (which is 2 billion active cells - so golly freezes) - just use Define = "GUN", instead Define = "SYNTH" (it's one of the first lines). Never saw the gun in action, so I might miss something important. The gun is setup to period of 159,280,000. I've verified this period to work with the synth.
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hbk.zip
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Sphenocorona
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by Sphenocorona » December 30th, 2014, 10:24 pm

Two BILLION??? That far surpasses the Caterpillar as the most populated 'interesting' pattern ever constructed, though I suppose it should be expected that it must necessarily be huge in the first place... Anyway, it's awesome! Currently waiting for the gun to finish being built. I can confirm that the 47,795 glider synthesis does indeed work and runs quite well, considering the extreme repetitiveness of the construction.

By the way, the script simply does nothing if a rule other than B3/S23 is the current rule, but that's a simple matter to deal with.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by chris_c » December 30th, 2014, 10:41 pm

simsim314 wrote:Following the discussions about guns of large ships, I've made a synth and gun (script) for parallel HBK.
That was quick! It was good fun to watch the synth though... maybe I will try the gun tomorrow. My back-of-the-envelope calculation was that the widest point of the Parallel HBK in the (-1,-2) direction is about (1200, 2400) therefore 400 loops are required to get the ship to leave its own envelope. That should take around 400 * 250,000 = 100M generations.

Incidentally, if the "salvo target" sections of the ship are shifted NE by 2029 cells then you end up with a ship of period 2^18. Theoretically that should allow Hashlife to "run away" with the thing, but in practice I have never got that to happen. I suppose you would need to run for around 2^36 generations before the distance moved by the ship becomes a multiple of 2^18. Does anyone know enough about the Golly internals to comment on this?

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by simsim314 » December 31st, 2014, 2:11 am

Thinking about it I did the gun totally wrong. We need two circulating streams of gliders, that will trigger the "clock" interaction from both sides (kind of giant golly ticker). This will seriously reduce the construction to the size of the synth itself (seems I was over enthusiastic to put into use my logarithmic gun script...).

Maybe will just need two colors, but that's it. No need for 2 billion.

EDIT The recovery time is kinda a problem with this idea, maybe we Need N such constructions. (say if recovery time is 300+ we'll have 300 such glider loops).

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by simsim314 » December 31st, 2014, 4:13 am

Sphenocorona wrote:Currently waiting for the gun to finish being built.
I think it's a lost cause... I've a better design idea now, that will actually run in golly. This gun script will take a lifetime to finish, not talking about actually running.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by Sphenocorona » December 31st, 2014, 4:52 am

Yep, several hours passed by and the script was still only at 1500 out of nearly 10000 of whatever that counter was counting, so I had to stop it.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » December 31st, 2014, 5:35 am

My congratulations anyway! Have you finished running the script yourself? How big the .mc file was?

EDIT:
simsim314 wrote:Never saw the gun in action
Ah, just read that phrase again. The question is withdrawn.
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 4:55 am

chris_c wrote:EDIT2: the best I could find coming from the other side:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
44bo$43bo$43b3o18$23bo$23bobo$23b2o14$2bobo$2b2o$3bo6$3o$o$bo21$25b2o$
25bobo$25bo9$40b3o$40bo$41bo!
How about monochromatic syntheses, producing half-bakeries of different colors? Gliders from different salvos may be of different colors, but in this case the colors in the other recipe should have the same colors correspondingly.

My idea is to build a stable controllable "sniper gun", consisting of two parts, that shoot gliders at each other. Gliders collide and produce a monochromatic salvo that goes orthogonally. Each part of the gun is controlled by its own glider loop, that determines when gliders are fired. (It's similar how the HBK itself works.)

I tried collisions of a glider with the output of Paul Callahan's Herschel transmitter, but found no orthogonal gliders. What are other double- or multi-barrelled Herschel conduits?

EDIT: Ah, actually we don't necessarily need recipes to be monochromatic. We can have two sniper guns for each color. It would even reduce the bounding box, I guess. Avoiding conflicts should be easy, since the repeat time of these controllable sniper guns is pretty large.
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by chris_c » January 1st, 2015, 8:45 am

codeholic wrote:
chris_c wrote:EDIT2: the best I could find coming from the other side:

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
44bo$43bo$43b3o18$23bo$23bobo$23b2o14$2bobo$2b2o$3bo6$3o$o$bo21$25b2o$
25bobo$25bo9$40b3o$40bo$41bo!
How about monochromatic syntheses, producing half-bakeries of different colors? Gliders from different salvos may be of different colors, but in this case the colors in the other recipe should have the same colors correspondingly.

My idea is to build a stable controllable "sniper gun", consisting of two parts, that shoot gliders at each other. Gliders collide and produce a monochromatic salvo that goes orthogonally. Each part of the gun is controlled by its own glider loop, that determines when gliders are fired. (It's similar how the HBK itself works.)

I tried collisions of a glider with the output of Paul Callahan's Herschel transmitter, but found no orthogonal gliders. What are other double- or multi-barrelled Herschel conduits?

EDIT: Ah, actually we don't necessarily need recipes to be monochromatic. We can have two sniper guns for each color. It would even reduce the bounding box, I guess. Avoiding conflicts should be easy, since the repeat time of these controllable sniper guns is pretty large.
Yeah, that sounds like it should work. A little while ago I made made these 2H->G glider inserters based on the recipes here.

Code: Select all

x = 818, y = 329, rule = B3/S23
48b2o$48bobo$50bo4b2o$46b4ob2o2bo2bo$46bo2bobobobob2o$49bobobobo$50b2o
bobo$54bo2$40b2o$41bo7b2o$41bobo5b2o$42b2o7$52b2o$52bo$53b3o$55bo4$
479b2o$479bobo$481bo4b2o$477b4ob2o2bo2bo$477bo2bobobobob2o$480bobobobo
$481b2obobo$485bo2$471b2o$472bo7b2o$472bobo5b2o$473b2o7$483b2o$483bo$
484b3o$3b2o481bo$4bo$2bo$2b5o14b2o$7bo13bo$4b3o12bobo$3bo15b2o$3b4o$b
2o3bo3b2o$o2b3o4b2o$2obo$3bo$3b2o3$11b2o$12bo$9b3o$9bo4$102b2o$102b2o
9$87b2o339b2o$87b2o340bo$427bo$427b5o14b2o$432bo13bo$429b3o12bobo$428b
o15b2o$428b4o$426b2o3bo3b2o$425bo2b3o4b2o$97b2o326b2obo$107b2o319bo$
98b2o7bo320b2o93b2o$99bo8b3o412b2o$110bo$436b2o$437bo$434b3o$434bo$83b
2o$83bo5b2o$81bobo4bobo$77b2o2b2o5bo419b2o$77b2o8b2o419b2o2$67bo$65bob
2o$64b2obo$66bo32b2o$99b2o2$106bob2o$106b2obo$528b2o$83b2o443bo$65b2o
16bobo2b2o439b3o$64bobo18bo3bo441bo$64bo20b2o2bobo$63b2o4b2o19b2o$67bo
2bo$67b2o$76b2o26b2o384bob2o$76b2o26bobo193b2o188b2obo16b2o$106bo186b
2o5b2o195b2o10bobo$106b2o185b2o195b3o4bo11bo$490bo2bo4bo6bo2b2o$481bo
10b2o3b2o4b3o$295b2o17b2o8b2o153bob2o19bo$295b2o17bo9b2o152b2obo20b2o$
86b2o201b2o21bobo165bo238bo$86bo4b2o10b2o184b2o21b2o206b2o195b3o11bo$
84bobo15bobo225b2o188b2o169b2o23bo14b3o$84b2o6b2o8b2o226b2o360bo23b2o
16bo14bo$93bo5bo226b2o199bob2o161bobo38b2o12b3o$99b7o2bo201bo15b2o199b
2obo162b2o2b2o47bo$105b4o201bo386b2o47b2o$66bo32b5o204b3o$66b3o8bo21bo
2bob5o199bo399bo$69bo7b2o6b2o21bo222b2o177b2o196b3o34b2o$68b2o14bobo
16b2obo224b2o177bobo197bo15b2o17b2o$78b2o4bo18b2ob2o404bo197bo15b2o$
83b2o418b2o7b2o$91b2o410b2o$91b2o193b2o$287bo8b3o$107b2o178bobo8bo232b
2o$63b2o42b2o179b2o8b2o17b2o212bo159b2o36b2o$64bo253bo210bobo158bobo
16b2o19bo$64bobo251b3o191b2o15b2o159bo18bobo16bo$65b2o445b2o175b2o20bo
16b2o12b2o$324b2o379b2o4b2o19b2o8bo$324bo380bo2bo24bo6b3o$79b2o244b3o
201b2o176b2o21b3o$79bobo245bo201bobo166b2o30bo$81bo406b2o41bo166b2o$
81b2o7b2o8b2o209b2o175bobo40b2o$89bobo220bo176bo$89bo9b2o208b3o436b2o$
61bob2o23b2o9bo189b2o18bo414bo23bobo$61b2obo216bo7b2o14b2o417b3o23bo$
281b3o21bo217b2o202bo22b2o$70b2o212bo21b3o204b2o173b2o36b2o14b2o$70b2o
211b2o23bo205bo7b2o165bo52b2o$106b2o376bob2o23b3o8bo166bobo$82bo23bobo
210b2o163b2obo23bo178b2o$82b3o23bo210b2o$85bo22b2o383b2o$84b2o14b2o
200bo23bob2o163b2o$100b2o198b3o23b2obo199b2o178bo$80b2o208b3o6bo10b2o
193bo23bobo175b3o$80bo209bo8b2o10bo193b3o23bo165b3o6bo$78bobo208b2o20b
obo194bo22b2o164bo8b2o$78b2o232b2o193b2o14b2o171b2o$63bo459b2o$63b3o
262bo174b2o228b2o8b2o$66bo259b3o174bo230bo8bobo$65b2o258bo11bo163bobo
230b3o8bo$71bo232b2o4bo14b2o8b3o163b2o242b2o$71b2o231bo4bobo22bo151bo
224b2o$302bobo5bo23b2o150b3o222bo$72b2o17b2o8b2o199b2o185bo219bobo$
101bobo384b2o219b2o$92b2o9bo390bo232b2o$93bo9b2o183b2o204b2o230bobo$
287bobo405b2o29bo$287bo207b2o17b2o8b2o168bobo28b2o$286b2o26b2o20bo187b
obo167bo$58b2o253bobo18bobo178b2o9bo166b2o$58b2o253bo20b3o179bo9b2o$
82bo221b2obo4b2o7b2o11bo$80bobo221bob2o14bo388b2obo$79b2o238b3o389bob
2o$63b2o232b2o20bo161b2o252b2o$63b2o232b2o182b2o221b2o29b2o$59b2o444bo
198b2o$59b2o442bobo236bob2o$77b2o21b2o400b2o238b2obo$76bobo21b2o384b2o
238b2o$65b2o9bo17b2o390b2o239bo$65b2o8b2o17b2o191bo194b2o243bobo$287b
3o192b2o244b2o$290bo209b2o21b2o169b2o$96b2o191b2o208bobo21b2o170bo48bo
$89b2o5b2o390b2o9bo17b2o176bobo44b3o$89b2o397b2o8b2o17b2o177b2o43bo11b
o$726bo14b2o8b3o$725bobo22bo$519b2o205bo23b2o$307b2o203b2o5b2o$296b3o
8bo204b2o200b2o$296bo8bobo395b3o8bo$295b2o8b2o396bo8bobo$702b2o8b2o2$
730b2o20bo$729bobo18bobo$729bo20b3o$728b2o7b2o11bo$738bo$735b3o$735bo
3$304b2o81bo$288b2o14b2o79b3o323b2o$289bo22b2o70bo310b2o14b2o$286b3o
23bo71b2o310bo22b2o$286bo23bobo380b3o23bo$310b2o381bo23bobo$392b2o323b
2o$393bo$393bob2o$292bo92b2o4b3o2bo$292b3o90b2o3bo3b2o303bo$295bo94b4o
305b3o$294b2o80b2o15bo308bo6b3o$375bobo12b3o308b2o8bo$375bo13bo321b2o$
374b2o14b5o$394bo$392bo$392b2o4$314b2o$314b2o405b2o$721b2o8$299b2o$
299b2o405b2o100bo$706b2o98b3o$805bo$805b2o3$813b2o$814bo$814bob2o$806b
2o4b3o2bo$806b2o3bo3b2o$811b4o$797b2o15bo$796bobo12b3o$796bo13bo$795b
2o14b5o$815bo$813bo$813b2o11$323bo$323b3o$326bo$325b2o7$335b2o$328b2o
5bobo$328b2o7bo$337b2o2$324bo$323bobob2o$323bobobobo$320b2obobobobo2bo
$320bo2bo2b2ob4o$322b2o4bo$328bobo425bo$329b2o425b3o$759bo$758b2o7$
768b2o$761b2o5bobo$761b2o7bo$770b2o2$757bo$756bobob2o$756bobobobo$753b
2obobobobo2bo$753bo2bo2b2ob4o$755b2o4bo$761bobo$762b2o!
They are surely not optimal for this purpose but they would do the job. Also here is a fast two-sided recipe for an HB:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
10bo$8b2o$obo6b2o$2o$bo11$3bo$2b2o$2bobo$14b3o$14bo$15bo!
I think it implies that everything in the Parallel HBK can be built from two pairs of fast orthogonal gliders which could be built using 8 sniper guns in total.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 9:01 am

I tried out an alternative approach in the meanwhile, but it would slow down the synthesis compared to your approach with stable edge-shooters, I guess. On the other hand, this way you can reduce the amount of stable circuitry, that makes it easier to make a quadratic growth pattern, e. g. a puffer that makes HBK guns :wink:

Here's how you can make an orthogonal glider with 3 pairs of gliders shot on the same tracks:

Code: Select all

x = 197, y = 193, rule = B3/S23
196bo$194b2o$195b2o41$153bo$151b2o$152b2o41$110bo$108b2o$109b2o8$95b2o
$94bobo$96bo48$45b2o$44bobo$46bo42$b2o$obo$2bo!
I failed to find a recipe with just two pairs.

(That would be great to find two recipes for different colors that can run on the same tracks.)
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 9:47 am

chris_c wrote:I think it implies that everything in the Parallel HBK can be built from two pairs of fast orthogonal gliders which could be built using 8 sniper guns in total.
In fact you need just 4, if you slightly modify the recipe so that each pair contains gliders of different colors. Then you need just two guns of each color for each salvo.

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
10bo$8b2o$obo6b2o$2o$bo11$3bo$2b2o$2bobo10b2o$15bobo$15bo!
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by chris_c » January 1st, 2015, 10:01 am

Yeah that could be an attractive method if you can find a recipe of the opposite color. Here's a quick speed estimation:

Population of HBK: 132946
Average pop per still life: Slightly less than 14.
Gliders per still life: At most 3.
Gliders per glider: Hopefully 3.
Time between gliders: At least 386 gens if G->H is involved (or do you have something better in mind?). Let's assume 400.

132946 / 14 * 3 * 3 * 400 < 35,000,00

It takes approx 100 millions gens for the HBK to get out of the way so I think the speed implied by your approach is going to be fine.

.....
codeholic wrote:In fact you need just 4, if you slightly modify the recipe so that each pair contains gliders of different colors. Then you need just two guns of each color for each salvo.
Oooh, nice idea. What about the period of the glider loops? Do we need P1 or can we get away with P4 or P8? If so, does that open up any optimisation avenues? I'll try to think harder on this.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 11:14 am

chris_c wrote:What about the period of the glider loops? Do we need P1 or can we get away with P4 or P8? If so, does that open up any optimisation avenues? I'll try to think harder on this.
I'm not sure if I understood you right. What do you mean by the period of a glider loop?
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 12:22 pm

codeholic wrote:(That would be great to find two recipes for different colors that can run on the same tracks.)
Hooray!

Code: Select all

x = 467, y = 470, rule = B3/S23
464bobo$464b2o$465bo38$424bo$424bobo$424b2o39$383bo$383bobo$383b2o45$
336bo$335bo$335b3o46$288bo$288bobo$288b2o39$247bo$247bobo$247b2o53$
196b2o$197b2o$196bo40$154bo$154b2o$153bobo48$104b2o$103bobo$105bo16$
86b2o$87b2o$86bo33$51bo$51b2o$50bobo48$b2o$obo$2bo!
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by chris_c » January 1st, 2015, 1:41 pm

codeholic wrote: I'm not sure if I understood you right. What do you mean by the period of a glider loop?
For example, the Golly ticker is based around an insanely nice P46 glider duplicator followed by P46 G->LWSS. I was thinking if we could get away with only using gliders with equal timing mod 4 or mod 8 then there might be something similar (but obviously not that good) for this situation.

Anyway, the idea was somewhat tenuous with the 2H->G method and it definitely won't apply to your single lane recipes (nice find btw!).

With your two recipes we just need four high period looped guns that fire gliders on a single lane. Is there any prior art in this area?

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 6:08 pm

chris_c wrote:I was thinking if we could get away with only using gliders with equal timing mod 4 or mod 8 then there might be something similar (but obviously not that good) for this situation.
If you use gliders of equal timing mod 4 or mod 8 then you won't be able to choose the lane you're firing the glider with the sniper gun with enough granularity... or you'll need proportionally more guns.
chris_c wrote:Anyway, the idea was somewhat tenuous with the 2H->G method and it definitely won't apply to your single lane recipes (nice find btw!).
Thanks.
With your two recipes we just need four high period looped guns that fire gliders on a single lane. Is there any prior art in this area?
I think the best state of art in this area is still Herschel loops bootstrapped with snarks. I think one can reach a decent repeat time with this approach (I can try, though I'm not a particularly good Herschel plumber.)
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by simsim314 » January 1st, 2015, 6:15 pm

@codeholic - I really see no reason not to use chris_s G->H salvo recipes. Anyway I was exploring this issue way back, when me and dvgrn talked about universal construction of opposite glider collisions (in the Serizawa Universal Constructor thread). I posted my recipes there - I also verified 3 is the minimum, with brute force and posted recipes for both colors there. This is definitely an interesting direction in universal constructors arena.

@chris_s I think golly ticker approach should work. Also your 4 glider recipe is not "edgy" enough to work "out of the box" with my script. Here is a sample:

Code: Select all

x = 105, y = 111, rule = B3/S23
41$48b3o$50bo$49bo15b3o$65bo$66bo4$47b2o$46bobo$48bo4$68bo$67b2o$67bob
o10$8b3o$10bo$9bo65b3o$75bo$76bo4$7b2o$6bobo$8bo4$78bo$77b2o$77bobo!
This clarify the difference:

Code: Select all

x = 72, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
23.2C$22.2C26.3C$24.C27.C$51.C15.3C$8.2C57.C$7.C.C58.C$9.C3$49.2C$.C
5.3C38.C.C$.2C6.C40.C$C.C5.C3$33.C36.C$32.2C35.2C$32.C.C34.C.C!
There is also a small issue using the ticker approach - one should have big enough step from recipe to recipe, as there are many "jumps" of ~1K distance from recipe to the next (stream jumps). This limits the opposite collision approach to make slower synth. But considering the repeat time is around 150M this is pretty minor holdback. (I know your calculation say it's 100M but my tests in practice show that for this synth the period is about 160M).

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 6:36 pm

simsim314 wrote: I really see no reason not to use chris_s G->H salvo recipes.
Well, I posted one of the possible reasons above: it can be made glider-constructible easier, so you can build quadratic growth patterns. But I also agree that chris_c's approach is promising a better result in terms of the population and maybe the bounding box.
simsim314 wrote:Also your 4 glider recipe is not "edgy" enough to work "out of the box" with my script. Here is a sample:
One can modify the HBK to increase the distance between half-bakeries (though it is perhaps forbidden by Official Half-Baked Knightship Gun Optimization Rules).
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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by simsim314 » January 1st, 2015, 7:10 pm

codeholic wrote:One can modify the HBK to increase the distance between half-bakeries
Well it's not totally useless recipe. If one wants to optimize the number of gliders for the synth, it's possible to alternate between 5 and 4 gliders recipes. Also sometimes changing the order of synth will allow the 4 gliders to work out of the box.

I think in general, some point is being missed in the "optimization" arena. We tend to optimize the constructed result, and not the script that generated it, and it's legit of course. But sometimes as designers, we should look at the simplicity of the design itself. For example using the same 5 gliders recipe is making life so much simpler. Yes of course you pay in glider count, but you optimize the "headache". The less recipes you use in your design, the less "special cases" you have, the more straightforward your script is the better. This is one of the "optimization" parameters that should be somehow included, or at least considered.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by chris_c » January 1st, 2015, 8:22 pm

The 4G recipe should be fine. Just build from the opposite direction:

Code: Select all

x = 163, y = 314, rule = B3/S23
155bo$154bo$146bo7b3o$146bobo$146b2o28$125bo$124bo$116bo7b3o$116bobo$
116b2o28$95bo$94bo$86bo7b3o$86bobo$86b2o2$69bo$68bo$60bo7b3o$60bobo$
60b2o28$39bo$38bo$30bo7b3o$30bobo$30b2o28$9bo$8bo$o7b3o$obo$2o65$2b2o$
2bobo$2bo12b2o$14b2o$16bo4$32b2o$32bobo$32bo12b2o$44b2o$46bo4$62b2o$
62bobo$62bo12b2o$74b2o$76bo70$88b2o$88bobo$88bo12b2o$100b2o$102bo4$
118b2o$118bobo$118bo12b2o$130b2o$132bo4$148b2o$148bobo$148bo12b2o$160b
2o$162bo!
It should be better to build in this direction anyway: all of the sites for the new ship will be accessible as soon as the old ship leaves the envelope. From the other direction I imagine you will need to wait an extra few million generations until the old ship gets even further out of the way: the sides of the ship are steeper than a 45 degree diagonal.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 8:54 pm

How about reviving idea with loops of glider pairs made with Herschel transmitters and receivers, instead of single gliders? This way one can get Herschels very fast, so one can reduce the bounding box and make the gun work faster.

EDIT: that would double the population, though. I hope it is allowed by OHBKGOR.
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by simsim314 » January 1st, 2015, 9:08 pm

codeholic wrote:How about reviving idea with loops of glider pairs made with Herschel transmitters and receivers, instead of single gliders?
Was thinking about it. the problem is that the loop should be of 100M period. So if we keep it all with Herschel to reduce the period, we have two options:

1. Have a huge amount of Herschel conduits (2 Billion active cells is optimistic estimation).
2. Use Herschel splitters and period multipliers. This requires very good H plumbing.

I think that keeping it all in glider state, is optimal in the sense that the glider gun loop size is only twice as big as the synth (2 gliders for each glider). This comes down to very small cell count - and for this app. it's pretty crucial.

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 9:17 pm

I didn't mean having a huge Herschel loop. I meant having a circulating salvo of glider pairs, operated by Herschel transmitters and receivers.
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by chris_c » January 1st, 2015, 9:45 pm

codeholic wrote:I didn't mean having a huge Herschel loop. I meant having a circulating salvo of glider pairs, operated by Herschel transmitters and receivers.
Yes, I've been making this based on your glider recipes. I must say that I like the simplicity.

Code: Select all

x = 944, y = 948, rule = B3/S23
515b2o$516bo$515bo5b2o$515b2o4bobo$523bo$521bob2o$521b2o2bo$524b2o8$
510b2o$509bobo$509bo$508b2o13$519b2o$519b2o2$510b2obo$510bob2o4$529b2o
$528bobo$528bo$527b2o4$508b2o$509bo$509bobo$510b2o15b2o$527b2o3$510b2o
$509bobo$509bo$508b2o6$526b2o$526bo$527b3o$529bo4$510b2o$509bobo$509bo
$508b2o7$518b2o$518b2o2$525bob2o$525b2obo$508b2o$508b2o$498b2o$499bo$
499bobo$500b2o9$504b2o$503bobo$503bo$502b2o6$519b2o$519b2o20$521b2o$
521b2o2$528bob2o$528b2obo7$526bo$525bobo$526b2o14$502b2o$502b2o$506b2o
$506b2o$520b2o$520b2o5$523bo$522bobo7b2o$522bobo7b2o$510b2o11bo$511bo$
508b3o$508bo$512b2o$512b2o114$641bo$640b2o$640bobo3$649b3o$649bo$650bo
34$682bo$681b2o$681bobo3$690b3o$690bo$691bo41$729b2o$728b2o$730bo2$
738b2o$738bobo$738bo28$928b2o$928b2o$933bo$931b3o$930bo$918bo11b2o$
908b2o7bobo$908b2o7bobo$918bo5$777bo142b2o$776b2o142b2o$776bobo155b2o$
934b2o$938b2o$785b3o150b2o$785bo$786bo12$914b2o$914bobo$915bo7$910bob
2o$910b2obo2$919b2o$919b2o9$818bo$817b2o$817bobo3$826b3o$826bo$827bo
104bo$930b3o$929bo$929b2o$921b2o$921b2o6$938b2o$938bo$936bobo$936b2o9$
940b2o$940bobo$942bo$942b2o$932b2o$932b2o$913bob2o$913b2obo$86bo$86b3o
833b2o$89bo832b2o$88b2o767b3o$101bo53b2o700bo$99b3o53b2o701bo$98bo$98b
2o767b2o$157b2o707b2o$157b2o709bo63b2o$18bo27bo9bo15bo11b2o84b2o760bo$
16b3o27b3o5b3o13b3o11b2o84bo759bobo$15bo18b2o13bo3bo15bo98bobo759b2o$
15b2o17bo13b2o3b2o14b2o97b2o$35bo136b2o$34b2o136b2o$912bo$ob2o908b3o$
2obo911bo$914b2o$79b2o$31b2o46b2o26b2o$31b2o74b2o50b2o$2b2ob2o121b2o
29b2o$2bo3bo121b2o36b2o$3b3o159bo2bo763b2o$5bobo158b2o764bo$6b2o74b2o
56bo789bobo$62b2o19bo55bobo788b2o$42bo6b2o11bobo17bo57b2o$40b3o6b2o13b
o17b2o47b2o$39bo24b2o66bo780b2o$39b2o90bo781b2o15b2o$131b2o797bobo$
166b2o764bo$166b2o764b2o4$913b2o$913bo$911bobo$911b2o4$928b2obo$928bob
2o2$921b2o$921b2o13$932b2o$932bo$930bobo$930b2o8$916b2o$916bo2b2o$917b
2obo$918bo$918bobo4b2o$919b2o5bo$925bo$925b2o27$254b2o$254bobo$254bo7$
259bo$258b2o$258bobo32$296b3o$296bo$297bo7$301b2o$300b2o$302bo38$347bo
$346b2o$346bobo8$350b3o$350bo$351bo26$384b2o$384bobo$384bo7$389bo$388b
2o$388bobo25$419b3o$419bo$420bo7$424b2o$423b2o$425bo38$470bo$469b2o$
469bobo8$473b3o$473bo$474bo75$416b2o$416b2o$451b2o$452bo90b2o$451bo66b
2o24bo$451b2o47b2o17bo13b2o6b3o$442b2o57bo17bobo11b2o6bo$442bobo55bo
19b2o$443bo56b2o74b2o$416b2o158bobo$415bo2bo159b3o$416b2o36b2o121bo3bo
$423b2o29b2o121b2ob2o$423b2o50b2o74b2o$475b2o26b2o46b2o$503b2o2$580bob
2o$580b2obo2$410b2o136b2o$410b2o61b2o73bo$414b2o56bobo38b2o14b2o3b2o
13bo17b2o$413bobo56bo41bo15bo3bo13b2o18bo$413bo57b2o25b2o11b3o13b3o5b
3o27b3o$412b2o84b2o11bo15bo9bo27bo$425b2o$425b2o$484b2o$485bo$427b2o
53b3o$427b2o53bo$494b2o$494bo$495b3o$497bo!
A rough estimate of the final population is 132946 / 14 * 3 * 3 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 5 = 3.5 million.

A rough estimate of the construction time is 132946 / 14 * 3 * 3 * 120 = 10.25 million ticks.

My estimate for the time for the HBK to move away is 100 million ticks.

Therefore I think it should be doable to build a gun that is 512 times the period of the HBK, 512 * 245912 = 125,906,944

(I made sure that the loop gun has period a multiple of 8 to make this period possible.)

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Re: HBK Synth and Gun (script)

Post by codeholic » January 1st, 2015, 10:11 pm

Well done! You can pack them even closer.

Code: Select all

x = 944, y = 948, rule = B3/S23
515b2o$516bo$515bo5b2o$515b2o4bobo$523bo$521bob2o$521b2o2bo$524b2o8$
510b2o$509bobo$509bo$508b2o13$519b2o$519b2o2$510b2obo$510bob2o4$529b2o
$528bobo$528bo$527b2o4$508b2o$509bo$509bobo$510b2o15b2o$527b2o3$510b2o
$509bobo$509bo$508b2o6$526b2o$526bo$527b3o$529bo4$510b2o$509bobo$509bo
$508b2o7$518b2o$518b2o2$525bob2o$525b2obo$508b2o$508b2o$498b2o$499bo$
499bobo$500b2o9$504b2o$503bobo$503bo$502b2o6$519b2o$519b2o20$521b2o$
521b2o2$528bob2o$528b2obo7$526bo$525bobo$526b2o14$502b2o$502b2o$506b2o
$506b2o$520b2o$520b2o5$523bo$522bobo7b2o$522bobo7b2o$510b2o11bo$511bo$
508b3o$508bo$512b2o$512b2o114$641bo$640b2o$640bobo3$649b3o$649bo$650bo
23$670b2o$669b2o$671bo2$679b2o$679bobo$679bo23$699b2o$699bobo$699bo2$
709bo$708b2o$708bobo33$738b2o$738bobo$738bo2$748bo$747b2o$747bobo19$
928b2o$928b2o$933bo$931b3o$930bo$918bo11b2o$908b2o7bobo$908b2o7bobo$
918bo2$773b2o$773bobo$773bo$920b2o$783bo136b2o$782b2o150b2o$782bobo
149b2o$938b2o$938b2o14$914b2o$914bobo$915bo5$803bo$802b2o$802bobo105bo
b2o$910b2obo2$811b3o105b2o$811bo107b2o$812bo15$932bo$930b3o$929bo$929b
2o$921b2o$921b2o6$938b2o$938bo$936bobo$936b2o9$940b2o$940bobo$942bo$
942b2o$932b2o$932b2o$913bob2o$913b2obo$86bo$86b3o833b2o$89bo832b2o$88b
2o$101bo53b2o$99b3o53b2o$98bo$98b2o$157b2o$157b2o773b2o$18bo27bo9bo15b
o11b2o84b2o760bo$16b3o27b3o5b3o13b3o11b2o84bo759bobo$15bo18b2o13bo3bo
15bo98bobo759b2o$15b2o17bo13b2o3b2o14b2o97b2o$35bo136b2o$34b2o136b2o$
912bo$ob2o908b3o$2obo911bo$914b2o$79b2o$31b2o46b2o26b2o$31b2o74b2o50b
2o$2b2ob2o121b2o29b2o$2bo3bo121b2o36b2o$3b3o159bo2bo763b2o$5bobo158b2o
764bo$6b2o74b2o56bo789bobo$62b2o19bo55bobo788b2o$42bo6b2o11bobo17bo57b
2o$40b3o6b2o13bo17b2o47b2o$39bo24b2o66bo780b2o$39b2o90bo781b2o15b2o$
131b2o797bobo$166b2o764bo$166b2o764b2o4$913b2o$913bo$911bobo$911b2o4$
928b2obo$928bob2o2$921b2o$921b2o13$932b2o$932bo$930bobo$930b2o8$916b2o
$916bo2b2o$917b2obo$918bo$918bobo4b2o$919b2o5bo$925bo$925b2o27$254b2o$
254bobo$254bo7$259bo$258b2o$258bobo20$285b2o$285bobo$285bo7$290bo$289b
2o$289bobo21$316b3o$316bo$317bo7$321b2o$320b2o$322bo18$346b2o$345b2o$
347bo7$350b2o$350bobo$350bo18$376bo$375b2o$375bobo8$379b3o$379bo$380bo
27$414b2o$414bobo$414bo7$419bo$418b2o$418bobo131$416b2o$416b2o$451b2o$
452bo90b2o$451bo66b2o24bo$451b2o47b2o17bo13b2o6b3o$442b2o57bo17bobo11b
2o6bo$442bobo55bo19b2o$443bo56b2o74b2o$416b2o158bobo$415bo2bo159b3o$
416b2o36b2o121bo3bo$423b2o29b2o121b2ob2o$423b2o50b2o74b2o$475b2o26b2o
46b2o$503b2o2$580bob2o$580b2obo2$410b2o136b2o$410b2o61b2o73bo$414b2o
56bobo38b2o14b2o3b2o13bo17b2o$413bobo56bo41bo15bo3bo13b2o18bo$413bo57b
2o25b2o11b3o13b3o5b3o27b3o$412b2o84b2o11bo15bo9bo27bo$425b2o$425b2o$
484b2o$485bo$427b2o53b3o$427b2o53bo$494b2o$494bo$495b3o$497bo!
Would you still try out your idea with glider inserters and colored gun pairs? Fast synthesis of a half-bakery with just four gliders is too attractive.
Ivan Fomichev

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