## Soup search results

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
mniemiec
Posts: 1196
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Soup search results

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:21 am
I think this P4 needs a name, since it is an edgy domino sparker, and it is statorless. ..
dvgrn wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:34 am
Mark Niemiec's database has it as "24-bit P4 #1", no synthesis; pentadecathlon.com calls it 24P4.1.
Catagolue has one C2_4 soup for xp4_g880anziaw5kze5011 but the oscillator shows up early, so converting to a glider recipe looks tricky.
I have generally been assigning canonical names (like "15.60") for still-lifes that have been exhaustively searched, and ad-hoc names (like "45-bit still-life #1") for ones that have not (or, more recently, for 25+-bit ones that have been seached, but for which I don't have the list myself). For oscillators, I often used similar ad-hoc names like "24-bit period four oscillator #1", but I have been slowly trying to convert these and spaceships to the Pentadecathlon nomenclature (like 24P4.1 or 20P7H1V0.1), or its equivalent when the patterns aren't actually on the Pentadecathlon list. Unfortunately, since the suffix assignments are arbitrary, there's no objective way to name them, but this is rarely a problem as the number of oscillators and spaceships is usually fairly small.
Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 6:55 am
Is it possible to synthesize these inserts between the blocks? ...
(By the way, you will likely have an easier time if you replace the two separate one-bit sparks at the bottom with a domino-spark; the results are the same in the next generation).

It might be possible, but I doubt it would be easy. The 4-bit spark at the bottom left is basically an "insert a block via broken toad" method; I know of several of these; unfortunately, about half of them use a predecessor that would hit the block first, and all of them require gliders that come from the direction of the block. I suspect that a large random 3- or 4-glider search might find some suitable ways to make this.

The things on the bottom center will be more difficult. To get the single bit to appear beside the block, it would require a massive overloading just below the block.

Here are some feeble attempts; these would require a lot of work to fix:
1) Generation -11: 3-glider collision making "broken toad" (glider placement will be problematic)
2) Generation -2: 2-generation predecessor (which does not kill one bit that absolutely needs to die, and does not provide the two lower 1-bit sparks; it also interferes with the broken toad)
3) Generation -1: one-generation predecessor (which makes what we need except for bottommost bit)
4) Generation 0: your predecessor (replacing 2 bits with dominoes)
5) Generation 4: first phase of oscillator appears

Code: Select all

x = 140, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
105boo$$104bo102b3o3bo103boobbo103boobbo22boo6boo102bo6bo20b3ob3ob o5bo3boo28boo4boo22boo4boo22boo4boo22bobboboobbo4bo4boo28boo4boo22b oo4boo22boo4boo20bobboobobbo4b3o26bo29boo31bo6bo23bob3ob3oboo30boo 10boo16b5o4b5o21bobboo23boo6boooo16bobobo12b4obb4obbo17b4obboob5o19bo bboobbo30boobbobbobbo4boo13b3o4bo7bo18bo3b3o9boo22bo4bobo3bo18boo8bo bo25bo9bobo9bo89boo!  A for awesome Posts: 2129 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: Pembina University, Home of the Gliders Contact: ### Re: Soup search results Burloaferimeter variant in G1, found by Rob Liston: Code: Select all x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23 oobboobobobbooob bbbooooobbobbbbb obobobobbbobbbbb ooooobobobbbboob oobbbobooboooobo ooobobobbbbbbboo bbboooobbboboooo bbobobbobooooobb bbboooobbbbbobob oobooobobboboboo boobbboooobooboo obbbobbbooobboob bbboobooobobbooo ooobbobbbooooobo bbboobobobboooob oboobbboobobbboo! praosylen#5847 (Discord) x₁=ηx V*_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)$$x_1=\eta xV^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$goldenratio Posts: 121 Joined: July 26th, 2020, 10:39 pm Location: Exactly where you'd expect ### Re: Soup search results And with a good reaction too, if a bit dirty: Code: Select all x = 45, y = 29, rule = B3/S23 42bobo42b2o43bo39b2o9bo69bo9bo3bo9bo2bo5b2o8b2ob2o5b2o4bo4bo bo4bo5bo4bo19bo3o3b3o10bobo19b2o4bo4bo4bo415b3o! Immediate reaction: Code: Select all x = 18, y = 17, rule = B3/S23 4b2o3bo2bo6bob2obo3bo2b3o6b2o7b3oo2bo8bo2b3oo2bo7bo5bob2o9bo 4bo12bo3bo14bo!  EDIT: Collaborative 13G synthesis on the Discord: Code: Select all x = 128, y = 96, rule = B3/S23 15bo110bo16b2o106b2o15b2o108b2o13126bo125bo125b3o1298bobo98b2o 99bo663bo61b2o62b2o662b2o62bobo62bo7bo70bobo70b2o351bo21b2o 52b2o19bobo51b2o20bo548b3o50bo49bo1076b3o76bo77bo255b3o57bo 56bo16bob2oobo! EDIT2: Now 12G with a lucky cleanup by dvgrn: Code: Select all x = 197, y = 97, rule = B3/S23 160bo158b2o159b2o11195bo194bo194b3o15166bo164b2o165b2o10128bo 126b2o127b2o3116bo116b2o115bobo472bo71bo71b3o56b2o130b2o56bo 59bo56bo17b3o39bo3bobo50bo17bo41bo4b2o69bo4bo47b3o3b3o51b3o3b3o2 56bo59bob2o53bo59boobo53bo59bo2bo15143b2o143bobo143bo2113b2o 112bobo114bo7176b3o176bo177bo! cool epic gun since I have nothing else for a signature Code: Select all x = 5, y = 7, rule = B2n3-cq4e5y6c7c/S23-k 2o2o33bo3b2o3bo!  MikeP Posts: 101 Joined: February 7th, 2010, 9:51 am Location: Ely, Cambridgeshire, UK ### Re: Soup search results Code: Select all #CXRLE Pos=-62,-64 x = 124, y = 128, rule = B3/S23:T124,128 16b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o16b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o619b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o18bo2b o27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo18bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo19b2o29b2o29b2o29b 2o323b3o28b3o28b3o28b3o5b2o18bo10b2o18bo10b2o18bo10b2o18bo5b2o17bo 11b2o17bo11b2o17bo11b2o17bo2o29b2o29b2o29b2o2o29b2o29b2o29b2o628b2o 29b2o29b2o29b2o27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo 2bo28b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o323b3o28b3o28b3o28b3o11b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o 10bo18b2o10bo11b2o11bo17b2o11bo17b2o11bo17b2o11bo16b2o29b2o29b2o29b 2o16b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o619b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o18bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27b o2bo18bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo19b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o323b3o28b3o28b 3o28b3o5b2o18bo10b2o18bo10b2o18bo10b2o18bo5b2o17bo11b2o17bo11b2o17bo 11b2o17bo2o29b2o29b2o29b2o2o29b2o29b2o29b2o628b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o 27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo28b2o29b2o 29b2o29b2o323b3o28b3o28b3o28b3o11b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o10bo 11b2o11bo17b2o11bo17b2o11bo17b2o11bo16b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o16b2o29b2o 29b2o29b2o619b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o18bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo18bo2bo 27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo19b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o323b3o28b3o28b3o28b3o5b2o 18bo10b2o18bo10b2o18bo10b2o18bo5b2o17bo11b2o17bo11b2o17bo11b2o17bo2o 29b2o29b2o29b2o2o29b2o29b2o29b2o628b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o27bo2bo27bo2bo 27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo28b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o323b 3o28b3o28b3o28b3o11b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o10bo11b2o11bo17b2o 11bo17b2o11bo17b2o11bo16b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o16b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o619b 2o29b2o29b2o29b2o18bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo18bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo 27bo2bo19b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o323b3o28b3o28b3o28b3o5b2o18bo10b2o18bo 10b2o18bo10b2o18bo5b2o17bo11b2o17bo11b2o17bo11b2o17bo2o29b2o29b2o29b 2o2o29b2o29b2o29b2o628b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2b o27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo27bo2bo28b2o29b2o29b2o29b2o323b3o28b3o28b3o 28b3o11b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o10bo18b2o10bo11b2o11bo17b2o11bo17b2o11bo 17b2o11bo!  From this soup: Code: Select all #CXRLE Pos=-15,-16 x = 31, y = 32, rule = B3/S23:T31,32 o2b4ob4ob6o2bo3bob4oobob2obobo6b2o2bobob3o3bo2bobo7b3o3bo4bobobo2bo o3bo2bo2bob4o2b2ob3obo2b2o3bobob2obo3b3ob3obo3b2o4o4bo5bob2ob2obo3b 3obobo2b2o2b2ob5o2b2obo6boob2obob2o2bo5b4obob2o3bobobob2obob2obo2b 3ob2obo2b2o2boob3obob5ob2ob2o4bob2obo4b4o2bo2bob2o2bo2bo3b3oboo2bo 5b3o2b4ob4obobobo2o2bo2b2o2b2obob6ob2o3b2obo9b2o2b2o2b3ob5ob2o5o2bo 2bobobo2bobo3bobobo2boo4b5ob2o2bo2b4obo3bobo2b2o5bo2b3obobob3o2bobo b2o3b3obob2o3b2ob2o3b2obobo3b2o2b3o2b4ob2ob2obo2bo3bo5o2bobobob4o6b 4o2b2obobobob2o3bo3bo4bo3b2oboo2bobo4bo2bo7bobo2bob3o5bob2o2bob3o3b o2b2obob2oobo5b3obob2o2b2o4bob2obob4o6bo2bo2bobobobo2b5o3b2ob4ob2o 2b4obo2bob2o2bobobo3bo4bo2b3obob2obob2oboo2b4ob3ob3o2b2o9b3o3bob4o 4b2ob2o4bobo3bobo2o3bo3bo3bo2b3ob3ob3o2boo2b5o3b6o3bobob4ob2oob2ob 3obobob2o2b4o3b2o2bobo!  dvgrn Moderator Posts: 7290 Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm Location: Madison, WI Contact: ### Re: Soup search results MikeP wrote: October 2nd, 2020, 9:22 pm Code: Select all #CXRLE Pos=-62,-64 x = 124, y = 128, rule = B3/S23:T124,128... Weird one! No symmetry, shift (0,-14) every 590 ticks, settles sometime between T=610 and T=1200. wwei23 Posts: 1557 Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm Location: The (Life?) Universe ### Re: Soup search results Could this be considered a 14c/590 agar ship? EDIT : Corrected "replicator" to "agar". This is what I get for messing around with HighLife too much. Edit 2: Put "agar" in quotes. yujh Posts: 1589 Joined: February 27th, 2020, 11:23 pm Location: China ### Re: Soup search results wwei23 wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 12:36 am Could this be considered a 14c/590 agar ship? EDIT : Corrected "replicator" to "agar". This is what I get for messing around with HighLife too much. Edit 2: Put "agar" in quotes. I don't think so since they interact with each other. Or I don't know... B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!! Mission: find a rule with 2-5ob,7-15d,3-5o ships and 4 sparky hp osc. B2ikn35j6i/S23-a8 B2ck3ar4ac5e6c7/S1e2-an3ejnr4air5iy6c7c8 calcyman Posts: 2320 Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm ### Re: Soup search results dvgrn wrote: October 2nd, 2020, 9:53 pm No symmetry, shift (0,-14) every 590 ticks, settles sometime between T=610 and T=1200. In Conway's orbifold notation, it has xx symmetry (two parallel axes of glide-reflection): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper ... %97%C3%97) What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic! HartmutHolzwart Posts: 514 Joined: June 27th, 2009, 10:58 am Location: Germany ### Re: Soup search results Do you start a new approach to search toroidal random soups? Nobody has done that since Achim Flammenkamp”s census quite a few years back. Could we use modified apgsearch technology for this exercise? MikeP Posts: 101 Joined: February 7th, 2010, 9:51 am Location: Ely, Cambridgeshire, UK ### Re: Soup search results I had a hunch that there might be interesting things lurking in the non-square toroids, which I haven't heard of anyone trying to search before. I wrote a basic searcher that runs on an FPGA. It chooses random soups, runs them until periodic, throws out all the p1s and p2s, and reports the rest to software. Right now it's chewing through about 125,000 soups per second, but I think I can improve that. I'd certainly like to try and reuse the bit of apgsearch that separates patterns into their components. I've accumulated quite a pile of p30 soups; most are just blinkers and pentadecathlons, and maybe apgsearch can filter these out. I haven't looked at how to do this yet, though. hkoenig Posts: 152 Joined: June 20th, 2009, 11:40 am ### Re: Soup search results MikeP wrote:I'd certainly like to try and reuse the bit of apgsearch that separates patterns into their components. I'd also be interesting in knowing how apgsearch finds escaping spaceships. Where is all that in the source code? Is there any high level description of the processes involved? I'm in the process of rewriting a lot of my Life tools, and my old brute force method for Glider detection no longer works. (And partitioning could be more efficient...) Naszvadi Posts: 702 Joined: May 7th, 2016, 8:53 am Contact: ### Re: Soup search results MikeP wrote: October 2nd, 2020, 9:22 pm ... From this soup: Code: Select all #CXRLE Pos=-15,-16 x = 31, y = 32, rule = B3/S23:T31,32 o2b4ob4ob6o2bo3bob4oobob2obobo6b2o2bobob3o3bo2bobo7b3o3bo4bobobo2bo o3bo2bo2bob4o2b2ob3obo2b2o3bobob2obo3b3ob3obo3b2o4o4bo5bob2ob2obo3b 3obobo2b2o2b2ob5o2b2obo6boob2obob2o2bo5b4obob2o3bobobob2obob2obo2b 3ob2obo2b2o2boob3obob5ob2ob2o4bob2obo4b4o2bo2bob2o2bo2bo3b3oboo2bo 5b3o2b4ob4obobobo2o2bo2b2o2b2obob6ob2o3b2obo9b2o2b2o2b3ob5ob2o5o2bo 2bobobo2bobo3bobobo2boo4b5ob2o2bo2b4obo3bobo2b2o5bo2b3obobob3o2bobo b2o3b3obob2o3b2ob2o3b2obobo3b2o2b3o2b4ob2ob2obo2bo3bo5o2bobobob4o6b 4o2b2obobobob2o3bo3bo4bo3b2oboo2bobo4bo2bo7bobo2bob3o5bob2o2bob3o3b o2b2obob2oobo5b3obob2o2b2o4bob2obob4o6bo2bo2bobobobo2b5o3b2ob4ob2o 2b4obo2bob2o2bobobo3bo4bo2b3obob2obob2oboo2b4ob3ob3o2b2o9b3o3bob4o 4b2ob2o4bobo3bobo2o3bo3bo3bo2b3ob3ob3o2boo2b5o3b6o3bobob4ob2oob2ob 3obobob2o2b4o3b2o2bobo!  Period is 9440, according to oscar. Hdjensofjfnen Posts: 1612 Joined: March 15th, 2016, 6:41 pm Location: r cis θ ### Re: Soup search results Naszvadi wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 1:14 pm MikeP wrote: October 2nd, 2020, 9:22 pm ... From this soup: Code: Select all #CXRLE Pos=-15,-16 x = 31, y = 32, rule = B3/S23:T31,32 o2b4ob4ob6o2bo3bob4oobob2obobo6b2o2bobob3o3bo2bobo7b3o3bo4bobobo2bo o3bo2bo2bob4o2b2ob3obo2b2o3bobob2obo3b3ob3obo3b2o4o4bo5bob2ob2obo3b 3obobo2b2o2b2ob5o2b2obo6boob2obob2o2bo5b4obob2o3bobobob2obob2obo2b 3ob2obo2b2o2boob3obob5ob2ob2o4bob2obo4b4o2bo2bob2o2bo2bo3b3oboo2bo 5b3o2b4ob4obobobo2o2bo2b2o2b2obob6ob2o3b2obo9b2o2b2o2b3ob5ob2o5o2bo 2bobobo2bobo3bobobo2boo4b5ob2o2bo2b4obo3bobo2b2o5bo2b3obobob3o2bobo b2o3b3obob2o3b2ob2o3b2obobo3b2o2b3o2b4ob2ob2obo2bo3bo5o2bobobob4o6b 4o2b2obobobob2o3bo3bo4bo3b2oboo2bobo4bo2bo7bobo2bob3o5bob2o2bob3o3b o2b2obob2oobo5b3obob2o2b2o4bob2obob4o6bo2bo2bobobobo2b5o3b2ob4ob2o 2b4obo2bob2o2bobobo3bo4bo2b3obob2obob2oboo2b4ob3ob3o2b2o9b3o3bob4o 4b2ob2o4bobo3bobo2o3bo3bo3bo2b3ob3ob3o2boo2b5o3b6o3bobob4ob2oob2ob 3obobob2o2b4o3b2o2bobo!  Period is 9440, according to oscar. Huh, and mod 590 as well. MikeP's agar is weirder than I originally thought. Code: Select all x = 5, y = 9, rule = B3-jqr/S01c2-in3 3bo4boo2bo2o22oo2bo4bo3bo! Code: Select all x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2-i3-y4i 4b3o6boo3b3o2obo!  bubblegum Posts: 389 Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm Location: click here to do nothing ### Re: Soup search results Second Schick engine by Rob Liston: Code: Select all x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23 3o3b2o4bo2bo4obo3bo2b2obobo4bo7b2ob4obo4bobobo4o2bo2bo2bobob3ob2o bo3bobobob2o2b9o2b3obobobo4bo2o2bo2b2oboobob2obo2b2ob2o2o2b4o2bo bo2boob2ob3o2b2ob2oo4bo2bobo2bobo2bob3o2bob2oboo2bo4b4obobo4b6ob 2o2bo! Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring bubblegum wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed] part-time stator reducer MathAndCode Posts: 652 Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm ### Re: Soup search results bubblegum wrote: October 5th, 2020, 12:22 pm Second Schick engine by Rob Liston: Why does the Schick engine occur less commonly than the Coe ship? Shouldn't symmetric objects be favored because asymmetric patterns can have symmetric descendants, but symmetric patterns can't have asymmetric descendants? Marine has a non-centered Moore neighborhood and at least one elementary gun with a very high period (11,843). I'm in the process of reducing the glider cost of universal construction. mniemiec Posts: 1196 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am ### Re: Soup search results hkoenig wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 12:52 pm I'd also be interesting in knowing how apgsearch finds escaping spaceships. Where is all that in the source code? Is there any high level description of the processes involved? I'm not sure how apgsearch does it, but it's possible to do this robustly. For example, if you assume a Life-like rule (e.g. one that lacks B012a that permit growth at c), every pattern can be placed entirely within an octagonal with (1,2) oblique sides, hull whose N, S, E, and W corners grow orthogonally at c/2, and the NW, NE, SW, SE corners expand diagonally at c/3, and the pattern can never exceed this octagon. If one extracts potential spaceships from a pattern and then recomputes the octagon, if they move away at c/2 orthogonally, c/3 diagonally, or obliquely at an appropriate speed, and the spaceship's outer hull (including all phases) is at least two spaces outside the octagona, that octagon can never catch up to the spaceship. In Life, since diagonal movement is restricted to c/4, the octagon degenerates to a diamond, but the above method would still work. MathAndCode wrote: October 5th, 2020, 7:05 pm Why does the Schick engine occur less commonly than the Coe ship? Shouldn't symmetric objects be favored because asymmetric patterns can have symmetric descendants, but symmetric patterns can't have asymmetric descendants? While that's true, asymmetric predecessors tend to be much more common (with certain exceptions, like traffic lights, honeyfarms, and Pi heptominoes). A lot of symmetric patterns evolve from asymmetric predecessors and only become symmetrical within the last couple of generations; sometimes the two asymmetric halves evolve in totally different ways. bubblegum Posts: 389 Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm Location: click here to do nothing ### Re: Soup search results mniemiec wrote: October 5th, 2020, 8:19 pm hkoenig wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 12:52 pm I'd also be interesting in knowing how apgsearch finds escaping spaceships. Where is all that in the source code? Is there any high level description of the processes involved? I'm not sure how apgsearch does it, but it's possible to do this robustly. For example, if you assume a Life-like rule (e.g. one that lacks B012a that permit growth at c), every pattern can be placed entirely within an octagonal with (1,2) oblique sides, hull whose N, S, E, and W corners grow orthogonally at c/2, and the NW, NE, SW, SE corners expand diagonally at c/3, and the pattern can never exceed this octagon. If one extracts potential spaceships from a pattern and then recomputes the octagon, if they move away at c/2 orthogonally, c/3 diagonally, or obliquely at an appropriate speed, and the spaceship's outer hull (including all phases) is at least two spaces outside the octagona, that octagon can never catch up to the spaceship. In Life, since diagonal movement is restricted to c/4, the octagon degenerates to a diamond, but the above method would still work. I'm interested in how apgsearch detects spaceships of less than the maximum speed, say, the loafer. Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring bubblegum wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed] part-time stator reducer A for awesome Posts: 2129 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: Pembina University, Home of the Gliders Contact: ### Re: Soup search results mniemiec wrote: October 5th, 2020, 8:19 pm MathAndCode wrote: October 5th, 2020, 7:05 pm Why does the Schick engine occur less commonly than the Coe ship? Shouldn't symmetric objects be favored because asymmetric patterns can have symmetric descendants, but symmetric patterns can't have asymmetric descendants? While that's true, asymmetric predecessors tend to be much more common (with certain exceptions, like traffic lights, honeyfarms, and Pi heptominoes). A lot of symmetric patterns evolve from asymmetric predecessors and only become symmetrical within the last couple of generations; sometimes the two asymmetric halves evolve in totally different ways. Another factor is that patterns with D2_1 symmetry are generally much less common if they have at least one on cell on their line of symmetry, since once there are no such cells in a pattern they can't reappear at a later time — in these cases symmetric predecessors will often be quite rare, since they don't usually form from symmetric starting patterns later than the first few tens of generations of the reaction or so. praosylen#5847 (Discord) x₁=ηx V*_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)$$x_1=\eta xV^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}

MathAndCode
Posts: 652
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

### Re: Soup search results

bubblegum wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 8:24 pm
mniemiec wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 8:19 pm
hkoenig wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 12:52 pm
I'd also be interesting in knowing how apgsearch finds escaping spaceships. Where is all that in the source code? Is there any high level description of the processes involved?
I'm not sure how apgsearch does it.
I'm interested in how apgsearch detects spaceships of less than the maximum speed, say, the loafer.
I doubt that apgsearch uses that method for two reasons:
1. Using the method of whether or not something would escape, a pair of gliders where neither was more than a few diagonals ahead of the other, no matter how much sideways separation, would have to be counted as a single spaceship because neither would be uncatchable if the other suddenly turned into a LWSS or something.
2. Apgsearch obviously has found a loafer, and the copperhead has been detected in symmetric soups.
In order to correctly detect spaceships, still lifes, and oscillators, apgcode must be able to do all of the following:
• It must be able to divide a group of cells into separate objects so it doesn't list the entire pattern as one object (and doesn't view a glider going away from a block as a pattern that never stabilizes.
• It must remember past sets of cells so it can compare them to current sets of cells. Otherwise, it won't be able to detect any oscillators.
• It must keep track of the order of past generations. Otherwise, it would not be able to figure out the period of an oscillator or spaceship.
• It must be able to measure displacement from past states in order to be able to distinguish oscillators and spaceships.
• It must keep track of patterns over multiple generations so that it knows which past states correspond to which current patterns. Otherwise, if a ∏-heptomino or other common happened to occur in two different places at different times with the same orientation, apgcode would interpret it as a spaceship.
• It must be able to tell when one cluster separates into several clusters. Otherwise, it would interpret a honey farm as one 24-bit still life instead of four 6-bit still lifes.
• It must remember cluster history, i.e. which clusters came from the same parent cluster before it split and what the states of the parent cluster where. Otherwise, it would be unable to detect oscillators made of multiple clusters that only interact with each other for some of the time, such as the queen bee shuttle, or oscillators that split into multiple clusters that then rejoin into one cluster, such as the pentadecathlon.
This is everything necessary for properly identifying still lifes, oscillators, and spaceships that I could think of, but I might be missing something. I suspect that the list will also be sufficient to identify puffers, guns, rakes, and factories without mistakes. The only other thing that I would suggest would be to allow Catagolue to identify objects before the soup finishes settling, which seems like it should be possible with everything from the list. Giving Catagolue the ability to recognize when a pattern becomes a reflected, glide-reflected, or rotated version of itself, possibly as well as additional objects, instead of having to wait for the object to return to its initial orientation would be nice but not necessary, and it would probably require additional code anyway.
Marine has a non-centered Moore neighborhood and at least one elementary gun with a very high period (11,843).
I'm in the process of reducing the glider cost of universal construction.

wwei23
Posts: 1557
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
Location: The (Life?) Universe

### Re: Soup search results

Apgsearch is open-source. I don't think that understanding its code will be very easy though.

bubblegum
Posts: 389
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm

### Re: Soup search results

MathAndCode wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 10:35 pm
mistakes
You had to pick the yl72 whose population increase period is 72.
In other words, you had to pick a feature and not a mistake.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
bubblegum wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
part-time stator reducer

MathAndCode
Posts: 652
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

### Re: Soup search results

bubblegum wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 10:44 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 10:35 pm
mistakes
You had to pick the yl72 whose population increase period is 72.
In other words, you had to pick a feature and not a mistake.
But the two BLSEs are separate and therefore should not be counted as a single puffer, so the modulus should not be 72.
Marine has a non-centered Moore neighborhood and at least one elementary gun with a very high period (11,843).
I'm in the process of reducing the glider cost of universal construction.

bubblegum
Posts: 389
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm

### Re: Soup search results

MathAndCode wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 11:09 pm
bubblegum wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 10:44 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 10:35 pm
mistakes
You had to pick the yl72 whose population increase period is 72.
In other words, you had to pick a feature and not a mistake.
But the two BLSEs are separate and therefore should not be counted as a single puffer, so the modulus should not be 72.
Their histories touch, which means it's a single object. The reasoning behind this involves RROs.
EDIT: And the mod is not 72, it's the full period of the BLSEs (288) due to their nonsymmetry. I mean the period of the population increase, which is 72.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
bubblegum wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
part-time stator reducer

MathAndCode
Posts: 652
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

### Re: Soup search results

bubblegum wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 12:08 am
Their histories touch, which means it's a single object.
But then wouldn't we have to do the same for constellations, like counting the four blocks in a blockade as one object?
bubblegum wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 12:08 am
And the mod is not 72, it's the full period of the BLSEs (288) due to their nonsymmetry. I mean the period of the population increase, which is 72.
But, at least in my opinion, the two should be counted separately, and for each, the population would increase with period 144, not 72.
Marine has a non-centered Moore neighborhood and at least one elementary gun with a very high period (11,843).
I'm in the process of reducing the glider cost of universal construction.

bubblegum
Posts: 389
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 11:59 pm

### Re: Soup search results

MathAndCode wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 12:13 am
bubblegum wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 12:08 am
Their histories touch, which means it's a single object.
But then wouldn't we have to do the same for constellations, like counting the four blocks in a blockade as one object?
bubblegum wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 12:08 am
And the mod is not 72, it's the full period of the BLSEs (288) due to their nonsymmetry. I mean the period of the population increase, which is 72.
But, at least in my opinion, the two should be counted separately, and for each, the population would increase with period 144, not 72.
How do you think are the blocks' histories supposed to touch?
I probably should have been more specific, as in histories for periodic objects only. Otherwise, apgsearch would be submitting the entire contents of a soup, marked PATHOLOGICAL if spaceships exist, to Catagolue as one object.
And for your opinion, an RRO can have its period divided by simply including more copies of itself in its loop. apgoucher decided that apgsearch was going to report those with their divided period instead of their individual periods. This is basically a variant of the decision to consider a "boring p24" (don't ask me who named that) one object. The BLSE's periodic history envelopes touch, which mean they are the same object and use the same population increase period, which since they happen to be in perfect antiphase, is 72.

EDIT: This is what I get for not using the preview button
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
bubblegum wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
part-time stator reducer