Caterpillar's little brother research

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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codeholic
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by codeholic » September 20th, 2014, 11:09 am

HartmutHolzwart wrote:Are there any interesting reaction between a pi and a single glider that might be helpful?
It's hard to guess, what one might find helpful :) What's on your mind?
HartmutHolzwart wrote:Would thre be any way to systematically search for small tagalongs for one or two pis? The period is clearly out reach for wls and similar search programs.
One possible approach for finding high-period tagalongs could be to generate some junk behind the tower, run it for several hundred generations and check if the thing is persistent. I wrote a Golly script once to search for pi-wave tagalong puffers this way. Usually they're pretty dirty.
Ivan Fomichev

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » September 23rd, 2014, 3:28 pm

Pi reflects a backwards glider

Code: Select all

x = 161, y = 124, rule = B3/S23
5$22bo99bo$22bo99bo$22bo99bo16$21b3o97b3o16$22bo99bo$22bo99bo$22bo99bo
16$21b3o97b3o16$22bo99bo$22bo99bo$22bo99bo13$46bo104bo$45bo104bo$45b3o
102b3o$21b3o97b3o13$22bo99bo$21b3o97b3o$20b2ob2o95b2ob2o8$121b3o!
Maybe this could come in handy at some point in time. E.g. in an alternative mechanism to create the second blinker trail at the front.

Edit:

Code: Select all

x = 66, y = 121, rule = B3/S23
5$21bo$21bo$21bo16$20b3o16$21bo$21bo$21bo16$20b3o16$21bo$21bo$21bo13$
46bobo$46b2o$47bo$20b3o13$21bo$20b3o$19b2ob2o8$20b3o!
Edit2:

Code: Select all

x = 267, y = 137, rule = B3/S23
30$29bo49bo70bo58bo$29bo49bo70bo58bo$29bo49bo70bo58bo16$28b3o47b3o68b
3o56b3o16$29bo49bo70bo58bo$29bo49bo70bo58bo$29bo49bo70bo58bo16$28b3o
47b3o68b3o56b3o13$29bo49bo70bo58bo$28b3o47b3o68b3o56b3o$27b2ob2o45b2ob
2o66b2ob2o54b2ob2o3$104b2o$104bobo$104bo2$248b2o$28b3o47b3o68b3o56b3o
37bobo$248bo$23b2o$23bobo$23bo151b2o$175bobo$175bo!

HartmutHolzwart
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » September 27th, 2014, 4:01 pm

One idea to reduce size would be to design a front end that needs less gliders, i.e. less *WSS to duplicate and position the 24 gliders to build 12 blinkers in the current x6 front end.

This could be done by first building only one blinker trail and building the second one only later with the help of some pies running on the already existing trail. If that would work out completely, then the 24 gliders could be reduced to 18. 12 are still needed to build the primary trail, but the second would be built by one glider and a fleet of pies subsequently modifying the debris left by the collision of the glieder with the first pi.

Gencols can be used to find suitable reaction between an upstream or downstream glider and the first pi. It can also be used to find collisions between a pi and some simple still lifes like blocks, blinkers and bee hives.

Edit:

This collision shows, how far one can get sideways with a pi and a single glider:

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 95, rule = B3/S23
8$8bo$8bo$8bo16$7b3o16$8bo$8bo$8bo16$7b3o4$38bo$36b2o$37b2o7$8bo$7b3o$
6b2ob2o8$7b3o!
Edit2:

relatively clean, with distance 28, but we need 32...

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 98, rule = B3/S23
12$15bo$15bo$15bo16$14b3o6$18bo$18bobo$18b2o8$15bo$15bo$15bo16$14b3o
13$15bo$14b3o$13b2ob2o8$14b3o!
Edit 3:

1) the 12 gliders would be on teh left side of the caterpillar, wehre we have a lot of room because there is no burning helix to build. The right side would nee fewer upstream *WSS and would therefore be shorter.

2) Once we have a second blinker trail, the number of possible pi interactions on theses two trails, that produce some useful exhaust, incrfeases dramatically. There must be some way to finally produce an apprpriately spaced blinker trail in the end!

Edit 4:

clean 36 with forward glider:

Code: Select all

x = 52, y = 85, rule = B3/S23
3$3bo$3bo$3bo16$2b3o16$3bo$3bo$3bo16$2b3o13$3bo$2b3o$b2ob2o3$42bo$41b
2o$41bobo3$2b3o!

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » October 6th, 2014, 4:58 pm

Unfortunately, the 28 spaced glider -> blinker + pond reaction has it's drawbacks:

Code: Select all

x = 105, y = 313, rule = B3/S23
37$45bo$45bo$45bo11$93bo$93bobo$93b2o3$44b3o16$45bo$45bo$45bo5$83bo$
81b2o$82b2o9$44b3o16$45bo$45bo25bo$45bo24bo$70b3o15$44b3o12$59bobo$59b
2o$60bo2$45bo$45bo$45bo16$44b3o6$48bo$48bobo$48b2o8$45bo$45bo$45bo16$
38bo5b3o$36b2o$37b2o11$45bo$44b3o$43b2ob2o4$45bo$43bo3bo$41bo7bo$41bo
7bo$41b2ob3ob2o3$26bo$25b2o3b2o4bo4bo7b2o4b2o$24b2ob6o2bo4bo10b2obobo$
25b2o7bobo3bo3bobo5b2o$27b2ob2obob2o3bo3bobo3b2o$29b3o2b3obo2bo7b2o7bo
$29bo4bobob3o3bobo4bo6b2o$33bo2bo7bobo3b2o7bo$32b2ob2o6bo3bo8bobo$33bo
bo19bo2bo$34bo21b2o3$45bo$24bo20bo$24b2o19bo$26bo$19bo$18b3o$19bo$19b
2o6bo$19b2o$20bobo$21bob2obo3b3o$21bo5bo4bo$22bo4bo2bobo6$44b3o8$17b3o
11b2o$30bo2bo$30bo2bo$31b2o5$45bo$45bo$45bo6$18bo$18bo12b2o$18bo11bo2b
o$30bo2bo$31b2o6$44b3o8$17b3o11b2o$30bo2bo$30bo2bo$31b2o!
Unfortunately, it's not so easy to destroy the pond in a clean way.

The clean 36 spaced glider -> blinker is clearly to wide!

So no progress so far...

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » October 27th, 2014, 6:13 pm

this might help with building a shorter endcap:

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 210, rule = B3/S23
2$13b3o16$14bo$14bo$14bo16$13b3o16$14bo$14bo$14bo16$13b3o16$14bo$14bo$
14bo16$13b3o16$14bo$14bo$14bo16$13b3o16$14bo$14bo$14bo9$34bo$34bobo$
34b2o5$13b3o13$14bo$13b3o$12b2ob2o4$14bo$12bo3bo$10bo7bo$10bo7bo$10b2o
b3ob2o4$3b2o4b2o7b2o4b2o$3bobob2o11b2obobo$6b2o5bobo5b2o$8b2o3bobo3b2o
$bo7b2o7b2o7bo$2o6bo4bobo4bo6b2o$o7b2o3bobo3b2o7bo$bobo8bo3bo8bobo$bo
2bo19bo2bo$2b2o21b2o!
An incoming backward glicer leads to the deletion of the next blinker and releases two backward gliders in different direction to eventually either repeat the reaction or simply delete another blinker on a different trail.

I haven't tried yet whether this really works out.

HartmutHolzwart
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » November 4th, 2014, 5:19 pm

This is a first stept deleting the three rightmost blinker trails with one glider stream.

Code: Select all

x = 175, y = 371, rule = B3/S23
33$138b3o7$113b3o9$139bo$139bo$10bo128bo$11bo$9b3o3$114bo$74b3o37bo$
114bo9$138b3o6$75bo$75bo37b3o$75bo5$20bobo$21b2o$21bo$139bo$139bo$139b
o5$114bo$74b3o37bo$114bo9$138b3o6$75bo$33bo41bo37b3o$31bobo41bo$32b2o
7$139bo$139bo$139bo5$114bo$74b3o37bo$114bo9$138b3o$43bo$44b2o$43b2o3$
75bo$75bo37b3o$75bo8$139bo$139bo$139bo5$114bo$74b3o37bo$114bo4$55bo$
56bo$54b3o3$138b3o6$75bo$75bo37b3o$75bo14$139bo$114bo24bo$65bobo6b3o
37bo24bo$66b2o46bo$66bo14$75bo62b3o$75bo37b3o$75bo10$78bo$76bobo$77b2o
2$139bo$114bo24bo$74b3o37bo24bo$114bo15$75bo62b3o$75bo37b3o$75bo4$74b
3o11bo$74b3o12b2o$88b2o$74bobo2$66b2o2b2o7b2o2b2o$65bobo3bobo3bobo3bob
o$65bo6bo5bo6bo$65bo3bo5bo5bo3bo$66bob3o9b3obo$67bo2b2o7b2o2bo55bo$69b
o2b2o3b2o2bo32bo24bo$69b2o3bobo3b2o32bo24bo$69b2o2bo3bo2b2o32bo$71b2o
5b2o3$75bo$75bo$75bo9$100bo37b3o$101bo11b3o$99b3o4$114bo$74b3o36b3o$
112bo3bo$114bo$110bo3bo3bo$105b2o3bo7bo3b2o$105b2o3bob5obo3b2o$104bo6b
ob3obo6bo$105b2o15b2o$105b5o9b5o$109bo9bo19bo$108bo2b2o3b2o2bo18bo$
108b2ob2o3b2ob2o18bo$109bo2bo3bo2bo$110b2o5b2o3$75bo$75bo$75bo9$138b3o
7$74b3o!
The idea would be to chain this reaction multistage.

Even simpler:

Code: Select all

x = 130, y = 291, rule = B3/S23
5$113b3o7$88b3o3$52b3o6$114bo$114bo$114bo5$89bo$89bo$89bo$53bo$53bo$
53bo6$113b3o7$88b3o3$52b3o6$114bo$114bo$114bo5$89bo$89bo$89bo$53bo$53b
o$53bo6$113b3o7$8bo79b3o$6bobo$7b2o$52b3o6$114bo$114bo$114bo5$89bo$89b
o$89bo$53bo$53bo$53bo6$113b3o$18bo$19b2o$18b2o4$88b3o3$52b3o6$114bo$
114bo$114bo5$89bo$89bo$89bo$53bo$53bo$53bo$30bo$31bo$29b3o3$113b3o7$
88b3o3$52b3o12$114bo$89bo24bo$40bobo46bo24bo$41b2o46bo$41bo11bo$53bo$
53bo12$113b3o$88b3o3$52b3o8$53bo$51bobo$52b2o2$114bo$89bo24bo$89bo24bo
$89bo$53bo$53bo$53bo12$113b3o$88b3o3$52b3o2$63bo$64b2o$63b2o8$114bo$
89bo24bo$89bo24bo$89bo$53bo$53bo$53bo12$75bo37b3o$76bo11b3o$74b3o2$52b
3o2$89bo$88b3o$87bo3bo$89bo$85bo3bo3bo$80b2o3bo7bo3b2o$80b2o3bob5obo3b
2o$79bo6bob3obo6bo$80b2o15b2o$80b5o9b5o$84bo9bo19bo$83bo2b2o3b2o2bo18b
o$83b2ob2o3b2ob2o18bo$84bo2bo3bo2bo$53bo31b2o5b2o$53bo$53bo12$113b3o4$
52b3o!
or

Code: Select all

x = 131, y = 300, rule = B3/S23
4$114b3o7$89b3o2$53b3o7$115bo$115bo$115bo5$90bo$90bo$54bo35bo$54bo$54b
o7$114b3o7$89b3o2$53b3o7$115bo$115bo$115bo5$90bo$90bo$54bo35bo$54bo$
54bo7$114b3o7$9bo79b3o$7bobo$8b2o43b3o7$115bo$115bo$115bo5$90bo$90bo$
54bo35bo$54bo$54bo7$114b3o$19bo$20b2o$19b2o4$89b3o2$53b3o7$115bo$115bo
$115bo5$90bo$90bo$54bo35bo$54bo$54bo2$31bo$32bo$30b3o3$114b3o7$89b3o2$
53b3o13$115bo$90bo24bo$41bobo46bo24bo$42b2o10bo35bo$42bo11bo$54bo13$
114b3o$89b3o2$53b3o9$54bo$52bobo$53b2o2$115bo$90bo24bo$90bo24bo$54bo
35bo$54bo$54bo13$114b3o$89b3o2$53b3o3$64bo$65b2o$64b2o8$115bo$90bo24bo
$90bo24bo$54bo35bo$54bo$54bo13$76bo37b3o$77bo11b3o$75b3o$53b3o3$90bo$
89b3o$88bo3bo$90bo$86bo3bo3bo$81b2o3bo7bo3b2o$81b2o3bob5obo3b2o$80bo6b
ob3obo6bo$81b2o15b2o$81b5o9b5o$85bo9bo19bo$84bo2b2o3b2o2bo18bo$84b2ob
2o3b2ob2o18bo$54bo30bo2bo3bo2bo$54bo31b2o5b2o$54bo13$114b3o3$53b3o!

HartmutHolzwart
Posts: 422
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Location: Germany

Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » November 16th, 2014, 4:13 pm

Just to show what I mean:

This pattern could replace the right half of the endcap of the original caterpillar at appr. half the length.

Code: Select all

x = 653, y = 1037, rule = B3/S23
83$344b3o4$223bo$223bo$223bo3$319b3o2$283b3o2$198bo$198bo$162bo35bo$
162bo182bo$162bo182bo$345bo2$258b3o205b3o$441b3o$222b3o$405b3o2$320bo$
146bo173bo$147bo136bo35bo$145b3o136bo$284bo2$197b3o$380b3o$161b3o$344b
3o2$259bo207bo$259bo182bo24bo$223bo35bo182bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo
182bo$406bo2$319b3o2$283b3o2$198bo$198bo182bo$162bo35bo182bo$162bo182b
o35bo$162bo182bo$345bo2$258b3o205b3o$156bobo282b3o$157b2o63b3o$157bo
247b3o2$320bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo2$197b3o$380b3o$161b3o$344b3o
2$259bo207bo$259bo182bo24bo$223bo35bo182bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo
182bo$406bo2$319b3o2$283b3o2$198bo$198bo182bo$162bo6bo28bo182bo$162bo
4bobo175bo35bo$162bo5b2o175bo$345bo2$258b3o205b3o$441b3o$222b3o$405b3o
2$320bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo2$197b3o$380b3o$161b3o$344b3o2$259b
o207bo$259bo182bo24bo$223bo35bo182bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo182bo$
406bo2$179bo139b3o$180b2o$179b2o102b3o2$198bo$198bo182bo$162bo35bo182b
o$162bo182bo35bo$162bo182bo$345bo2$258b3o205b3o$441b3o$222b3o$198bo
206b3o$197b3o$196b5o119bo$195bo5bo118bo$194b2o5b2o81bo35bo$193b2o7b2o
80bo$194bobo3bobo81bo$195b2o3b2o2$380b3o$161b3o$344b3o$192bo$190b4o4bo
60bo207bo$190bo2b2o3bo4bo55bo182bo24bo$189bo2bob2o2bo5b2o17bo35bo182bo
24bo$188bo4b2o8b3obo15bo182bo35bo$187bo5bo10b5o14bo182bo$186b2obo15b2o
b2o196bo$187b2o2b2o11b3ob2o$187b5o13b5o109b3o$188bob2o13b2obo$185bo3b
2o2b3o5b3o2b2o3bo71b3o$195bo5bo$187bo6b2o5b2o6bo$183bo3b2o4bo9bo4b2o3b
o167bo$162bo218bo$162bo182bo35bo$162bo182bo$345bo2$258b3o205b3o$441b3o
$222b3o$186bo218b3o$186bobo$186b2o132bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo2$
204bobo$205b2o173b3o$161b3o41bo$344b3o2$259bo207bo$259bo182bo24bo$223b
o35bo182bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo182bo$406bo2$319b3o2$283b3o3$381bo$
162bo218bo$162bo182bo35bo$162bo13bo168bo$174b2o169bo$175b2o$258b3o205b
3o$441b3o$222b3o$405b3o2$217bo102bo$215bobo102bo$216b2o66bo35bo$284bo$
284bo3$380b3o$161b3o$344b3o2$259bo207bo$259bo182bo24bo$223bo35bo182bo
24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo182bo$406bo2$319b3o2$283b3o3$381bo$381bo$345b
o35bo$345bo$345bo$227bo$228b2o28b3o205b3o$227b2o212b3o$222b3o$405b3o2$
320bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo3$380b3o2$344b3o2$259bo207bo$259bo
182bo24bo$223bo35bo182bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo182bo$406bo2$319b3o2$
283b3o2$239bo$240bo140bo$238b3o140bo$345bo35bo$345bo$345bo2$258b3o205b
3o$441b3o$222b3o$405b3o2$320bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo3$259bo120b
3o$258b3o$257bo3bo82b3o$257b2ob2o$467bo$442bo24bo$223bo218bo24bo$223bo
182bo35bo$223bo182bo$255bo7bo142bo$249bobo2bo9bo$250b2o2b3ob3ob3o54b3o
$250bo$283b3o2$248b2o2bobo9bobo2b2o$248bob3o2bo7bo2b3obo110bo$251bo15b
o113bo$252b2obo7bob2o78bo35bo$245b2o5bo2b2o5b2o2bo5b2o71bo$244bo2bo5bo
b2o5b2obo5bo2bo70bo$244bo2bo5b2o9b2o5bo2bo$245bob2o21b2obo192b3o$245bo
27bo167b3o$222b3o22b2o21b2o$405b3o2$320bo$320bo$250bo33bo35bo$248b2o
34bo$249b2o33bo3$380b3o2$344b3o$265bo$263bobo201bo$264b2o176bo24bo$
223bo218bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo182bo$406bo2$319b3o2$283b3o3$381bo$
381bo$345bo35bo$345bo$345bo2$466b3o$238bo202b3o$222b3o12bo$237b3o165b
3o2$320bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$275bo8bo$276b2o$275b2o$380b3o2$344b3o
2$467bo$442bo24bo$223bo218bo24bo$223bo182bo35bo$223bo182bo$406bo2$319b
3o2$283b3o3$381bo$381bo$345bo35bo$345bo$345bo2$466b3o$441b3o2$287bo
117b3o$288bo$286b3o31bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo3$380b3o2$344b3o2$
467bo$442bo24bo$442bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo2$319b3o2$283b3o3$381bo
$381bo$345bo35bo$345bo$297bobo45bo$298b2o$298bo167b3o$441b3o2$405b3o2$
320bo$320bo$284bo35bo$284bo$284bo3$380b3o2$344b3o2$467bo$442bo24bo$
442bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$320bo85bo$319b3o$317b2obob2o$317b2o3b2o$283b
3o31bobobobo$310bo9bo$308bobo4b3o5b3o$309b2o4b3o5b3o55bo$316bobo3bobo
56bo$315b3o5b3o19bo35bo$314b3o7b3o18bo$316bo7bo20bo$309bo21bo$308bobo
3b2o9b2o3bobo133b3o$309b2o3b2o2bo3bo2b2o3b2o109b3o$308b3o3b2obobobobob
2o3b3o$306b5o3bo11bo3b5o70b3o$307b4o4b2ob2ob2ob2o4b4o$308b2obo5bo5bo5b
ob2o$309b2o19b2o$284bo$284bo$284bo2$312bo$311bo68b3o$311b3o$344b3o2$
467bo$442bo24bo$442bo24bo$323bo82bo35bo$324b2o80bo$323b2o81bo4$283b3o
3$381bo$381bo$345bo35bo$345bo$345bo2$466b3o$441b3o2$405b3o3$300bobo$
284bo15b2o$284bo16bo$284bo3$380b3o$335bo$336bo7b3o$334b3o$467bo$442bo
24bo$442bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo4$283b3o3$381bo$381bo$345bo35bo$
345bo$345bo2$466b3o$441b3o2$405b3o5$345bobo$346b2o$346bo2$380b3o2$344b
3o2$467bo$442bo24bo$442bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo7$381bo$381bo$345bo
35bo$345bo$345bo2$466b3o$441b3o$358bo$356bobo46b3o$357b2o8$380b3o2$
344b3o2$467bo$442bo24bo$442bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo7$381bo$381bo$
345bo22bo12bo$345bo23b2o$345bo22b2o10b3o$380b3o$379bo3bo82b3o$379b2ob
2o57b3o2$405b3o$372b2o15b2o$370bo5b2o7b2o5bo$368bo9bo5bo9bo$368bo2b5o
2bo5bo2b5o2bo$368bo3bo2bob3o3b3obo2bo3bo$370bo21bo$370bo4bo11bo4bo$
371b2o2bo11bo2b2o$373b2o13b2o2$344b3o2$374bobo90bo$374b2o66bo24bo$375b
o66bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo2$383bo$384bo$382b3o5$345bo$345bo$345bo
2$466b3o$441b3o2$405b3o7$363bo$363bobo$363b2o2$344b3o2$467bo$442bo24bo
$393bobo46bo24bo$394b2o10bo35bo$394bo11bo$406bo9$345bo$345bo$345bo2$
466b3o$441b3o2$405b3o9$406bo$404bobo$405b2o2$467bo$442bo24bo$442bo24bo
$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo13$466b3o$441b3o2$405b3o3$416bo$417b2o$416b2o8$
467bo$442bo24bo$442bo24bo$406bo35bo$406bo$406bo13$428bo37b3o$429bo11b
3o$427b3o$405b3o3$442bo$441b3o$440bo3bo$442bo$438bo3bo3bo$433b2o3bo7bo
3b2o$433b2o3bob5obo3b2o$432bo6bob3obo6bo$433b2o15b2o$433b5o9b5o$437bo
9bo19bo$436bo2b2o3b2o2bo18bo$436b2ob2o3b2ob2o18bo$406bo30bo2bo3bo2bo$
406bo31b2o5b2o$406bo$432bo2bo$432b4o$432bo2bo4$441bobo$442b2o$442bo4$
466b3o3$405b3o11$427bo$425b2o$426b2o39bo$467bo$467bo$406bo$406bo$406bo
$454bo$452bobo$453b2o10$466b3o3$405b3o!
I hope to complete the whole endcap with this method at some point in time. Not exactly a breakthrough, but at least a small step using a new reaction.

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dvgrn
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by dvgrn » November 16th, 2014, 5:57 pm

HartmutHolzwart wrote:I hope to complete the whole endcap with this method at some point in time. Not exactly a breakthrough, but at least a small step using a new reaction.
Has anyone been able to collect slow-salvo *WSS recipes from the 31c/240 centipede project that can be used to shorten the Caterpillar? I'm thinking primarily of MWSS and LWSS slow-salvo recipes.

It still seems quite possible to build all but one of the *WSSes in the original 6x helix with slow salvos, though -- there's only one HWSS that would have to be done with some variant of the old eater+4G method (and at least the eater could be built with a slow salvo).

-- Or did I miss a serious problem somewhere? -- that wouldn't be too surprising.

If we choose either forerakes or backrakes (only) for building the slow-salvo-buildable *WSSes, they'll stack together much more nicely than the fore- and backrake pairs in the original Caterpillar. How many blinker trails would be needed to get the usual slow-salvo choice of send/don't-send a glider? Presumably this would for each lane in turn, on a stripe of width 6*17=102? What's the cheapest way to cycle through all 102 lanes?

Are there easy shortcuts to get rakes on different lanes from the default one, using catchers and throwers or several parallel sets of blinker trails, etc.? Has somebody collected the known 17c/45 pi-climber rake tricks yet in a form that's compatible with slow-salvo constructions -- or is all of this still on the To-Do list?

HartmutHolzwart
Posts: 422
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Location: Germany

Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » December 26th, 2014, 5:38 pm

Here is a very modest attempt for building a new endcap for the caterpillar.

Code: Select all

x = 729, y = 2977, rule = B3/S23
179$289bobo$292bo$288bo3bo$292bo$289bo2bo$290b3o74$291bobo$290bo$290bo
3bo$290bo$290bo2bo$290b3o35$290b2o$289b3o$289b3o$289b2obo$290b3o$291bo
34$289bobo$292bo$288bo3bo$292bo$289bo2bo$290b3o35$291b2o$291b3o$291b3o
$290bob2o$290b3o$291bo34$291bobo$290bo$290bo3bo$290bo$290bo2bo$290b3o
17$237b3o14$269b3o2$238bo$238bo$238bo12$270bo$270bo$270bo$36b3o$237b3o
3$167b3o6$103b3o4$68b3o$269b3o$37bo$37bo200bo$37bo161b3o36bo$238bo$
168bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o151bobo$292bo$104bo183bo3bo$104bo187bo$104bo
184bo2bo$290b3o$69bo$69bo200bo$69bo200bo$270bo$36b3o161bo$200bo36b3o$
200bo2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$136bo2$103b3o4$68b3o$269b3o$37bo$37bo200bo$
37bo161b3o36bo$238bo$168bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69b
o221b2o$69bo200bo20b3o$69bo200bo20b3o$270bo19bob2o$36b3o161bo89b3o$
200bo36b3o51bo$200bo2$167b3o2$136bo174b3o$136bo$136bo2$103b3o4$68b3o
505b3o$269b3o$37bo$37bo200bo$37bo161b3o36bo$238bo$168bo167b3o$168bo
382b3o$168bo143bo$312bo83b3o$135b3o174bo58b3o2$104bo$104bo$104bo326b3o
2$69bo421b3o83bo$69bo200bo306bo$69bo200bo245b3o58bo$270bo$36b3o161bo$
200bo36b3o51bobo$200bo89bo46bo$290bo3bo42bo214bo$167b3o120bo46bo214bo$
290bo2bo103bo154bo$136bo153b3o18b3o58bo24bo$136bo235bo24bo$136bo235bo
83b3o2$103b3o326bo$432bo$432bo59bo$492bo$68b3o421bo24bo58b3o$269b3o
245bo$37bo479bo$37bo200bo$37bo161b3o36bo$238bo$168bo167b3o$168bo382b3o
$168bo143bo$312bo83b3o$135b3o174bo58b3o83bo$457bo$104bo352bo$104bo$
104bo326b3o2$69bo421b3o83bo$69bo200bo306bo$69bo200bo245b3o58bo$270bo$
36b3o161bo$200bo36b3o$200bo136bo$337bo214bo$167b3o167bo214bo$397bo154b
o$136bo174b3o58bo24bo$136bo153b2o80bo24bo$136bo152b3o80bo83b3o$289b3o$
103b3o183b2obo139bo$290b3o139bo$291bo140bo59bo$492bo$68b3o421bo24bo58b
3o$269b3o245bo$37bo479bo33b3o$37bo200bo312b3o$37bo161b3o36bo311bo3bo$
238bo311b2ob2o$168bo$168bo$168bo143bo$312bo$135b3o174bo58b3o2$104bo
266bobo173bobo2bo2bobo$104bo266bobo173b2o3bo3b2o$104bo265bo3bo173bo3bo
3bo$370bo3bo$69bo300b2ob2o$69bo200bo270b3ob2o11b2ob3o$69bo200bo270bobo
b2o11b2obobo$269bobo271bo2b2o9b2o2bo$36b3o161bo167bo7bo167b6o5b6o$200b
o36b3o28b2ob2o87bob6obo5bob6obo153b2o5bo13bo5b2o$200bo67b2ob2o85b3ob6o
9b6ob3o150bo2bo4b2o2bo5bo2b2o4bo2bo$237bobo27b2o3b2o86bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo
2bo152b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o$167b3o67bobo28b2ob2o87bobo4bobo5bobo4bobo
152b2ob2o21b2ob2o$236bo3bo120bo21bo$136bo99bo3bo70b3o48b3obo11bob3o$
136bo99b2ob2o122b3o13b3o$136bo124b6o7b6o$258bobo19bobo$103b3o152bo9bo
3bo9bo268b3o$234bo7bo15bo8b2o3b2o8bo$226bob6obo5bob6obo7bobo3b2ob2o3b
2ob2o3bobo6bobo259bobo$224b3ob6o9b6ob3o6bo21bo10bo78b3o58bo118bobo$68b
3o155bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo2bo9bo19bo7bo3bo139bo117bo3bo22bo$226bobo4bobo5bo
bo4bobo9bo2bo13bo2bo11bo139bo58b3o56bo3bo22bo$37bo189bo21bo12bo15bo10b
o2bo43b3o58bo152b2ob2o22bo$37bo190b3obo11bob3o41b3o104bo$37bo161b3o27b
3o13b3o149bo58b3o58bo$517bo$168bo101bo246bo30bo7bo$168bo101bo269bob6ob
o5bob6obo$168bo101bo41bo225b3ob6o9b6ob3o$312bo227bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo2bo$
135b3o99b3o72bo227bobo4bobo5bobo4bobo$541bo21bo$104bo437b3obo11bob3o$
104bo438b3o13b3o$104bo$372bo$69bo302bo$69bo302bo58b3o58bo$69bo267bo
154bo83b3o$337bo154bo58b3o$36b3o161bo136bo58b3o58bo$200bo51b2o203bo$
200bo256bo58b3o2$167b3o93bo5b3o$264bo$136bo101bo7bobo13b3o46b3o$136bo
101bo7bo2bo$136bo101bo7bobo2b2o$251b2o$103b3o3$371b3o58bo$68b3o361bo
144bo$432bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo298b3o58bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo
161b3o195bo58b3o58bo$517bo$168bo101bo246bo$168bo101bo$168bo101bo41bo$
312bo$135b3o99b3o72bo2$104bo$104bo$104bo$372bo$69bo302bo$69bo302bo58b
3o58bo$69bo267bo154bo83b3o$273bobo61bo154bo58b3o$36b3o161bo73b2o61bo
58b3o58bo$200bo73bo182bo$200bo256bo58b3o2$167b3o99b3o2$136bo101bo72b3o
$136bo101bo$136bo101bo2$103b3o3$371b3o58bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o
58bo24bo$37bo298b3o58bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo161b3o195bo58b3o
58bo$517bo$168bo101bo246bo$168bo101bo$168bo101bo41bo$291bobo18bo$135b
3o99b3o50bo21bo$290bo3bo$104bo185bo$104bo181bo3bo2bo$104bo179bobo3b3o$
285b2o85bo$69bo302bo$69bo302bo58b3o58bo$69bo267bo154bo83b3o$337bo154bo
58b3o$36b3o161bo69bo66bo58b3o58bo$200bo68bobo185bo$200bo67bo3bo184bo
58b3o$268bo3bo$167b3o67b3o$237b3o$136bo99bo3bo70b3o$136bo97bo2bobo2bo
26b3o$136bo129bob5obo$266b9o$103b3o132bo28bo5bo$234bo2b3o2bo$234b3o3b
3o$311b3o57b3o58bo$68b3o188b2o19b2o30bo119bo144bo$259bo2bob4o5b4obo2bo
28b2ob2o117bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo222bo2bob5ob5obo2bo26b11o18b3o58bo154bo
24bo$37bo189b2o5bo7bo5b2o13bo3b3ob3o3bo26b2o4bobobo4b2o76bo154bo$37bo
161b3o25bobobo13bobobo8bo7bo7bo7bo21bo5bo3bo5bo76bo58b3o58bo$231bob2ob
o3bob2obo10b2o6bob4ob4obo6b2o19bo15bo196bo$168bo58bo3bobo2b2ob2o2bobo
3bo6bo6bobob3ob3obobo6bo20b2ob3o3b3ob2o197bo$168bo58bo4b2o3bobo3b2o4bo
7b3o21b3o24bo2bobo2bo$168bo55b2o4bob2o2b2ob2o2b2obo4b2o5b2o21b2o25b2ob
obob2o$224bo5bo3bobo3bobo3bo5bo6bo21bo26b2o5b2o$135b3o87bo25bo56b3o3b
3o$226b3o19b3o$104bo$104bo164b3o$104bo$238bo65b2o5b3o5b2o51bo$69bo168b
o64bo3bo9bo3bo50bo$69bo168bo65bobo11bobo51bo58b3o58bo$69bo267bo154bo
83b3o$337bo154bo58b3o$36b3o161bo136bo58b3o58bo$200bo256bo$200bo256bo
58b3o2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$136bo$270bo$103b3o164bo$270bo41bo$245bo2bo
63bo$237b3o5b4o15bobo45bo58b3o58bo$68b3o174bo2bo16b2o165bo144bo$265bo
166bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo298b3o58bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo161b3o
195bo58b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo164b3o
$104bo$238bo72b3o58bo$69bo168bo133bo$69bo168bo133bo58b3o58bo$69bo267bo
154bo83b3o$337bo154bo58b3o$36b3o161bo136bo58b3o58bo$200bo256bo$200bo
256bo58b3o2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo140bo$136bo138bobo$270bo5b2o$103b3o164b
o$270bo41bo$312bo$237b3o72bo58b3o58bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o58bo
24bo$37bo298b3o58bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo161b3o195bo58b3o58bo$
517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo164b3o$104bo$238bo72b
3o58bo$69bo168bo133bo$69bo168bo133bo58b3o58bo$69bo267bo154bo83b3o$337b
o154bo58b3o$36b3o161bo136bo58b3o58bo$200bo86bo169bo$200bo87b2o167bo58b
3o$287b2o$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$136bo$270bo$103b3o164bo$270bo41bo$312bo$
237b3o72bo58b3o58bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo298b3o58bo
154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo161b3o195bo58b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$
168bo$168bo100b3o$269b3o$135b3o130bo3bo$268b2ob2o$104bo$104bo$104bo$
238bo60bo11b3o58bo$69bo168bo61bo71bo$69bo168bo59b3o71bo58b3o58bo$69bo
195bobo2bo2bobo61bo154bo83b3o$265b2o3bo3b2o36bo24bo154bo58b3o$36b3o
161bo65bo3bo3bo35b2ob2o22bo58b3o58bo$200bo109b2ob2o142bo$200bo256bo58b
3o$259b3ob2o11b2ob3o$167b3o89bobob2o11b2obobo26bo7bo$261bo2b2o9b2o2bo
22b3o2bo9bo2b3o$136bo125b6o5b6o22b2o3bobo7bobo3b2o$136bo119b2o5bo13bo
5b2o15b2ob2o3bo7bo3b2ob2o$136bo118bo2bo4b2o2bo5bo2b2o4bo2bo15b2ob6o5b
6ob2o$255b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o16bo2bo13bo2bo$103b3o149b2ob2o21b2ob2o17b
2o15b2o$304bo4bo5bo4bo$304bo3bo7bo3bo$237b3o66bo3bo3bo3bo52b3o58bo$68b
3o238bo5b3o114bo144bo$306bo9b2o114bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo231b3o34bobo27b
3o58bo154bo24bo$37bo262b2o4b2o89bo154bo$37bo161b3o195bo58b3o58bo$517bo
$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo$312bobo$135b3o175b2o$313bo$104bo$104bo$104bo$
238bo133bo$69bo168bo133bo$69bo168bo133bo58b3o58bo$69bo200bo66bo154bo
83b3o$270bo66bo154bo58b3o$36b3o161bo69bo66bo58b3o58bo$200bo256bo$200bo
256bo58b3o2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$136bo$296bo$103b3o188b2o$295b2o2$237b
3o131b3o58bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo231b3o64b3o58bo
154bo24bo$37bo287bo71bo154bo$37bo161b3o121bobo71bo58b3o58bo$324b2o11bo
179bo$168bo167b3o178bo$168bo166bo3bo$168bo166b2ob2o2$135b3o$328bo17bo$
104bo221b4o2b2o7b2o2b4o$104bo220bob3o2b2o7b2o2b3obo$104bo219b3o3b2o2bo
5bo2b2o3b3o$238bo86bo5bo2bo5bo2bo5bo22bo$69bo168bo87b5o3bo5bo3b5o23bo$
69bo168bo88b2ob2o11b2ob2o24bo58b3o58bo$69bo200bo57bo2bo11bo2bo145bo83b
3o$270bo58b2o13b2o146bo58b3o$36b3o161bo69bo125b3o58bo$200bo140bo115bo$
200bo130bo9bo115bo58b3o$284bo45bo$167b3o113bo46b3o$283b3o$136bo$136bo$
136bo2$103b3o232bo$339b2o$338b2o$237b3o131b3o58bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432b
o58b3o58bo24bo$37bo231b3o125bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo161b3o195bo
58b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo$104bo$238b
o133bo$69bo168bo133bo$69bo168bo80bobo50bo58b3o58bo$69bo249b2o171bo83b
3o$320bo171bo58b3o$36b3o161bo195b3o58bo$200bo256bo$200bo256bo58b3o2$
167b3o180bo$351bo$136bo212b3o$136bo$136bo2$103b3o3$237b3o131b3o58bo$
68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$
37bo161b3o195bo58b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o$308bo$
104bo203bobo$104bo203b2o$104bo267bo$238bo132bobo$69bo168bo131bo3bo$69b
o168bo130b2obob2o55b3o58bo$69bo302bo119bo83b3o$360bobo5bo7bo115bo58b3o
$36b3o161bo160b2o5bo2bobo2bo19b3o58bo$200bo160bo6bo2bobo2bo80bo$200bo
167bo7bo80bo58b3o$369b2o3b2o$167b3o196b2o9b2o$366b2o9b2o$136bo224b2ob
4o9b4ob2o$136bo223bo5bo11bo5bo$136bo224bo21bo$359bob2o3b2ob3ob3ob2o3b
2obo$103b3o252bo8b2ob2ob2ob2o8bo$359bo2bo5bobo3bobo5bo2bo$360b2obo5bo
5bo5bob2o$237b3o122bo19bo49bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo
359bo154bo24bo$37bo359bo154bo$37bo161b3o163bo31bo58b3o58bo$298bo64b2o
152bo$168bo127b2o66b2o151bo$168bo128b2o$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo271bo$104b
o269bobo$104bo270b2o$238bo$69bo168bo$69bo168bo192b3o58bo$69bo422bo83b
3o$492bo58b3o$36b3o161bo195b3o58bo$200bo256bo$200bo256bo58b3o2$167b3o
2$136bo$136bo$136bo2$103b3o2$353bo$237b3o46bo65bo79bo$68b3o214bo66b3o
77bo144bo$285b3o108b3o33bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo357bo3bo152bo24bo$37bo356b
o2bo2bo151bo$37bo161b3o191bo3bo3bo54b3o58bo$394bob3obo116bo$168bo217bo
7b2obob2o116bo$168bo218b2o3bobo5bobo$168bo217b2o7bo3bo$395bo3bo$135b3o
253bo11bo$391bo11bo$104bo288bo7bo$104bo281bo5bo9bo5bo$104bo280bobo3b2o
9b2o3bobo$238bo149bobo4bo3bo4bobo$69bo168bo149bobo2bobo3bobo2bobo$69bo
168bo144bo4bo2bo2bobobobo2bo2bo4bo19b3o58bo$69bo313bo4bo3b4o3b4o3bo4bo
80bo83b3o$384bo3bo4b3o3b3o4bo3bo81bo58b3o$36b3o161bo184b3o19b3o47bo$
200bo256bo$200bo256bo58b3o2$167b3o2$136bo251bobo$136bo204bobo44b2o$
136bo137bobo64b2o46bo$274b2o66bo$103b3o169bo3$237b3o161bo30bo$68b3o
331bo29bo144bo$400b3o29bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo514bo24bo$37bo514bo$37bo
161b3o254b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo$
104bo$238bo$69bo168bo$69bo168bo192b3o58bo$69bo422bo83b3o$492bo58b3o$
36b3o161bo176bo79bo$200bo129bo46bobo77bo$200bo62bo66bobo44b2o78bo58b3o
$263bobo64b2o$167b3o93b2o2$136bo$136bo$136bo274bobo$412b2o$103b3o306bo
3$237b3o192bo$68b3o361bo144bo$432bo58b3o58bo24bo$37bo514bo24bo$37bo
514bo$37bo161b3o254b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo
326b3o$104bo326b3o$104bo262bo62bo3bo$238bo81bo44b2o63b2ob2o$69bo168bo
14bo64b2o46b2o$69bo168bo12b2o66b2o171bo$69bo182b2o238bo83b3o$492bo58b
3o$36b3o161bo256bo$200bo256bo$200bo223bo2bobo2bo2bobo19bo58b3o$422bobo
2b2o3bo3b2o$167b3o253b2o3bo3bo3bo2$136bo$136bo284b3ob2o11b2ob3o$136bo
284bobob2o11b2obobo$423bo2b2o9b2o2bo$103b3o318b6o5b6o$418b2o5bo13bo5b
2o$417bo2bo4b2o2bo5bo2b2o4bo2bo$199b3o35b3o177b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o$68b
3o128b3o215b2ob2o21b2ob2o129bo$198bo3bo288b3o58bo24bo$37bo160b2ob2o
349bo24bo$37bo514bo$37bo418b3o58bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo253bo$168bo
186bo65bo$195bobo2bo2bobo102bo45bo66b3o$135b3o57b2o3bo3b2o35bo65bo46b
3o$196bo3bo3bo35bo66b3o$104bo135b3o$104bo$104bo84b3ob2o11b2ob3o$189bob
ob2o11b2obobo26bo198bo$69bo121bo2b2o9b2o2bo28bo199b2o$69bo122b6o5b6o
29bo198b2o53bo$69bo116b2o5bo13bo5b2o277bo83b3o$185bo2bo4b2o2bo5bo2b2o
4bo2bo276bo58b3o$36b3o146b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o241bo$185b2ob2o21b2ob2o
241bo$457bo58b3o2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo62b3o$136bo$199bobo$103b3o93bobo$
198bo3bo$198bo3bo254bo$198b2ob2o253b3o$68b3o384b2ob2o117bo$454b2o3b2o
30b3o58bo24bo$37bo372bobo42b2ob2o92bo24bo$37bo158bo7bo138bobo64b2o140b
o$37bo150bob6obo5bob6obo83bobo44b2o66bo105bo$186b3ob6o9b6ob3o81b2o46bo
172bo$168bo19bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo2bo84bo219bo$168bo19bobo4bobo5bobo4bobo$
168bo20bo21bo$190b3obo11bob3o238bobobo3bo3bo$135b3o53b3o13b3o240bobo4b
o4b2o$448b6o3bo3b2o$104bo343bo$104bo342bo19bo$104bo341bob2o15b2obo$
446bobo17bobo$69bo129b3o245b3o15b3o$69bo378bo17bo25bo$69bo373b2o8b2o5b
2o8b2o20bo83b3o$442b2obo4bo2b2o5b2o2bo4bob2o19bo58b3o$36b3o402bobobo4b
o2bo7bo2bo4bobobo$442bob3o5b2o7b2o5b3obo$516b3o2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$
136bo$446bo$103b3o293bo46bobo$332bo66bobo44b2o$200bo84bo46bobo64b2o$
200bo84bobo44b2o$68b3o129bo84b2o290bo$491b3o58bo24bo$37bo514bo24bo$37b
o424bobo87bo$37bo425b2o52bo$463bo53bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$
104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo129b3o$69bo422bo$69bo422bo83b3o$492bo58b3o$36b
3o2$516b3o$436bo$167b3o219bo44b2o$322bo64b2o46b2o$136bo138bo44b2o66b2o
$136bo136b2o46b2o$136bo137b2o2$103b3o$475bo$200bo272bobo$200bo273b2o$
68b3o129bo376bo$491b3o58bo24bo$37bo514bo24bo$37bo514bo$37bo479bo$517bo
$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo$491b3o$135b3o$490bo3bo$104bo385bo3bo$104bo383b
o7bo$104bo381b2o4bo4b2o$486bo4bobo4bo$69bo129b3o284bo3bo3bo3bo$69bo
354bo62b2obo3bob2o$69bo307bo45bo65bo5bo80b3o$310bo65bo46b3o125b3o$36b
3o224bo45bo66b3o$262bo46b3o$262b3o219bob3o27b3o$483bobobo3bo$167b3o
320bob2o4b2o$481bo4b2o3bo6bo3bo$136bo343bo3bobo2bo8bo3bo$136bo351bo13b
o$136bo343b2o$484bo$103b3o391b2o$489bo5bo4bo$200bo289bo3bo$200bo280b2o
bo5bo3bo5bob2o$68b3o129bo286bo2bo3bo2bo79bo$481b2o4bobo5bobo4b2o48bo
24bo$37bo514bo24bo$37bo514bo$37bo479bo$517bo$168bo348bo$168bo$168bo2$
135b3o$479bobo$104bo307bobo64b2o$104bo260bobo44b2o66bo$104bo193bobo64b
2o46bo$251bobo44b2o66bo$69bo129b3o49b2o46bo$69bo182bo$69bo430bo75b3o$
501bo49b3o$36b3o460b3o2$516b3o2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$136bo2$103b3o$516b
3o$200bo316bo$200bo$68b3o129bo310b3o7b3o53bo$510bobo3b3o3bobo27bo24bo$
37bo472bo13bo27bo24bo$37bo472b2ob2o5b2ob2o27bo$37bo474bo3bobo3bo$468bo
43b3o5b3o$168bo232bo66bobo$168bo185bo46bobo64b2o$168bo118bo66bobo44b2o
107bob2o$240bo46bobo64b2o153bo$135b3o102bobo44b2o220bo4bob2o$240b2o
267bo4b2o2bo3b3o$104bo405bo2b3obo4b3o2bo$104bo405bo5bo10bo$104bo422bo
2$69bo129b3o$69bo$69bo506b3o$514bobobobo30b3o$36b3o477bobo$513bo2bobo
2bo$513bo7bo2$167b3o2$136bo$136bo$136bo2$103b3o2$200bo304bo$200bo257bo
44b2o$68b3o129bo190bo64b2o46b2o71bo$344bo44b2o66b2o93bo24bo$37bo239bo
64b2o46b2o160bo24bo$37bo192bo44b2o66b2o207bo$37bo190b2o46b2o$229b2o$
168bo357bo$168bo355bobo$168bo356b2o2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo
129b3o$69bo$69bo506b3o$551b3o$36b3o4$167b3o2$136bo356bo$136bo309bo45bo
$136bo242bo65bo46b3o$332bo45bo66b3o$103b3o159bo65bo46b3o$218bo45bo66b
3o$200bo16bo46b3o$200bo16b3o$68b3o129bo335bo40bo$537b2o13bo24bo$37bo
498b2o14bo24bo$37bo514bo$37bo2$168bo$168bo$168bo383bo$552bo$135b3o413b
obo2$104bo443b2ob3ob2o$104bo440bob2obo3bob2obo$104bo439b5obo3bob5o$
545b2o2bo5bo2b2o$69bo129b3o347b2o3b2o$69bo474bo2bo2bo3bo2bo2bo$69bo
479bobobobo20b3o$545bo3b2o3b2o3bo$36b3o510bo5bo$481bobo64bo7bo$434bobo
44b2o61bo$367bobo64b2o46bo60b2o$167b3o150bobo44b2o66bo106b3o$253bobo
64b2o46bo174b2o12bob2o$136bo69bobo44b2o66bo222bo12bob2o$136bo69b2o46bo
296bo6bobo$136bo70bo344bo$550b3o$103b3o2$200bo$200bo$68b3o129bo376bo$
577bo$37bo539bo$37bo$37bo2$168bo$168bo$168bo2$135b3o2$104bo$104bo$104b
o432bo$470bo66bobo$69bo353bo46bobo64b2o$69bo286bo66bobo44b2o$69bo239bo
46bobo64b2o151b3o$242bo66bobo44b2o$36b3o203bobo64b2o$242b2o$561bobo$
562b2o$167b3o392bo2$136bo$136bo$136bo2$103b3o4$68b3o506bo$577bo$37bo
539bo$37bo$37bo$135b3o$135b3o30bo$134bo3bo29bo$134b2ob2o29bo358bo$460b
o64b2o$413bo44b2o66b2o$346bo64b2o46b2o$104bo194bo44b2o66b2o$104bo127bo
64b2o46b2o$104bo125b2o66b2o$131bobo2bo2bobo89b2o$69bo61b2o3bo3b2o432b
2o$69bo62bo3bo3bo431bo2b2o$69bo503bo3b2o2$36b3o86b3ob2o11b2ob3o$125bob
ob2o11b2obobo$127bo2b2o9b2o2bo$128b6o5b6o$122b2o5bo13bo5b2o16b3o$121bo
2bo4b2o2bo5bo2b2o4bo2bo$121b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o$121b2ob2o21b2ob2o3$103b
3o3$135b3o$68b3o$135bobo$37bo97bobo377bo$37bo96bo3bo309bo65bo$37bo96bo
3bo262bo45bo66b3o$134b2ob2o195bo65bo46b3o$168bo118bo45bo66b3o$168bo51b
o65bo46b3o$168bo50bo66b3o$132bo7bo78b3o$124bob6obo5bob6obo$122b3ob6o9b
6ob3o$104bo19bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo2bo$104bo19bobo4bobo5bobo4bobo$104bo20bo
21bo$126b3obo11bob3o$69bo57b3o13b3o$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$135b3o2$167b3o6$
103b3o$503bobo$436bobo64b2o$389bobo44b2o66bo$68b3o251bobo64b2o46bo$
275bobo44b2o66bo$37bo170bobo64b2o46bo$37bo170b2o66bo$37bo98bo72bo$136b
o$136bo31bo$168bo$168bo4$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$
135b3o2$167b3o$492bo$425bo66bobo$378bo46bobo64b2o$311bo66bobo44b2o$
264bo46bobo64b2o$103b3o91bo66bobo44b2o$197bobo64b2o$197b2o2$68b3o2$37b
o$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo31bo$168bo$168bo4$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo$
69bo$69bo$482bo$36b3o376bo64b2o$368bo44b2o66b2o$135b3o163bo64b2o46b2o$
254bo44b2o66b2o$167b3o17bo64b2o46b2o$185b2o66b2o$186b2o4$103b3o4$68b3o
2$37bo$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo31bo$168bo$168bo4$104bo$104bo365bo$
104bo298bo65bo$356bo45bo66b3o$69bo219bo65bo46b3o$69bo172bo45bo66b3o$
69bo105bo65bo46b3o$174bo66b3o$36b3o135b3o2$135b3o2$167b3o6$103b3o4$68b
3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo2$458bobo$391bobo64b2o$344bobo44b2o
66bo$277bobo64b2o46bo$104bo125bobo44b2o66bo$104bo125b2o46bo$104bo126bo
2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$135b3o8$103b3o4$68b3o2$37bo409bo$37bo342bo66b
obo$37bo98bo196bo46bobo64b2o$136bo129bo66bobo44b2o$136bo82bo46bobo64b
2o$219bobo44b2o$219b2o4$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$135b
3o8$103b3o331bo$370bo64b2o$323bo44b2o66b2o$256bo64b2o46b2o$68b3o138bo
44b2o66b2o$207b2o46b2o$37bo170b2o$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo6$104bo$
104bo$104bo2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$135b3o2$425bo$358bo65bo$311bo45bo
66b3o$244bo65bo46b3o$197bo45bo66b3o$196bo46b3o$103b3o90b3o4$68b3o2$37b
o$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo6$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo$69bo$69bo$413bobo
$36b3o307bobo64b2o$299bobo44b2o66bo$135b3o94bobo64b2o46bo$185bobo44b2o
66bo$185b2o46bo$186bo5$103b3o4$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo6$
104bo$104bo297bo$104bo230bo66bobo$288bo46bobo64b2o$69bo151bo66bobo44b
2o$69bo104bo46bobo64b2o$69bo104bobo44b2o$174b2o$36b3o2$135b3o8$103b3o
4$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo$392bo$325bo64b2o$278bo44b2o66b
2o$211bo64b2o46b2o$164bo44b2o66b2o$104bo57b2o46b2o$104bo58b2o$104bo2$
69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$135b3o8$103b3o4$68b3o$380bo$37bo275bo65bo$37bo
228bo45bo66b3o$37bo98bo62bo65bo46b3o$136bo15bo45bo66b3o$136bo14bo46b3o
$151b3o5$104bo$104bo$104bo2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o2$135b3o8$103b3o262bo
bo$301bobo64b2o$254bobo44b2o66bo$187bobo64b2o46bo$68b3o69bobo44b2o66bo
$140b2o46bo$37bo103bo$37bo$37bo98bo$136bo$136bo6$104bo$104bo$104bo2$
69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o4$357bo$290bo66bobo$243bo46bobo64b2o$176bo66bobo
44b2o$176bobo64b2o$176b2o$103b3o4$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo8$104bo$104bo$
104bo2$69bo$69bo$69bo277bo$280bo64b2o$36b3o194bo44b2o66b2o$166bo64b2o
46b2o$164b2o66b2o$165b2o7$103b3o4$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo8$104bo230bo$
104bo163bo65bo$104bo116bo45bo66b3o$154bo65bo46b3o$69bo83bo66b3o$69bo
83b3o$69bo2$36b3o10$103b3o4$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo3$323bobo$256bobo64b
2o$209bobo44b2o66bo$142bobo64b2o46bo$142b2o66bo$104bo38bo$104bo$104bo
2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o10$103b3o4$68b3o$312bo$37bo207bo66bobo$37bo160b
o46bobo64b2o$37bo93bo66bobo44b2o$131bobo64b2o$131b2o6$104bo$104bo$104b
o2$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o9$302bo$103b3o129bo64b2o$188bo44b2o66b2o$186b
2o46b2o$187b2o$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo12$69bo$69bo$69bo2$36b3o3$290bo$
223bo65bo$176bo45bo66b3o$175bo46b3o$175b3o7$68b3o2$37bo$37bo$37bo12$
69bo$69bo$69bo208bobo$211bobo64b2o$36b3o125bobo44b2o66bo$164b2o46bo$
165bo7$68b3o$68b3o$67bo3bo$67b2ob2o4$37bo$37bo$37bo$64bobo2bo2bobo$64b
2o3bo3b2o$65bo3bo3bo3$58b3ob2o11b2ob3o$58bobob2o11b2obobo$60bo2b2o9b2o
2bo188bo$61b6o5b6o122bo66bobo$55b2o5bo13bo5b2o69bo46bobo64b2o$54bo2bo
4b2o2bo5bo2b2o4bo2bo68bobo44b2o$54b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o68b2o$54b2ob2o21b
2ob2o3$36b3o3$68b3o2$68bobo$68bobo$67bo3bo$67bo3bo$67b2ob2o4$65bo7bo$
57bob6obo5bob6obo$55b3ob6o9b6ob3o$37bo19bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo2bo$37bo19bobo
4bobo5bobo4bobo$37bo20bo21bo$59b3obo11bob3o$60b3o13b3o178bo$190bo64b2o
$143bo44b2o66b2o$141b2o46b2o$142b2o2$68b3o7$68b3o$36b3o$68bobo$66bo5bo
$65b3obob3o$61b3obo7bob3o$60bobo4bobobo4bobo$67bobobo$61b4o2b5o2b4o$
62b2o4bobo4b2o$62b5o5b5o$64b3o5b3o4$60bo17bo166bo$60bo2b2o3b3o3b2o2bo
99bo65bo$37bo24b3o9b3o54bo45bo66b3o$37bo22bo17bo51bo46b3o$37bo22bo17bo
51b3o8$68b3o$67bo3bo$66bo5bo$66bo5bo$66b3ob3o4$36b3o3$64bo9bo$63bo4b3o
4bo$63b3o7b3o2$59b2o17b2o$58bob2o15b2obo$58bo21bo152bobo$61bo15bo88bob
o64b2o$59b3o15b3o39bobo44b2o66bo$54b3o8b2o5b2o8b3o34b2o46bo$57bo6bo9bo
6bo38bo$53bo9bo11bo9bo$54b5o5b2o7b2o5b5o$37bo19bo23bo$37bo$37bo2$69bo$
68b3o$67bo3bo$67bo3bo$67b2ob2o$67bo3bo$66bo5bo$66b2o3b2o$67bo3bo$62b2o
11b2o$60bo3bo9bo3bo$59bo5bo7bo5bo$57bob2o3b2o7b2o3b2obo$56bobo2b7o3b7o
2bobo$36b3o19bo6bo2bobo2bo6bo$56b2o7b3o3b3o7b2o$57bobo6bo5bo6bobo$58bo
bo17bobo141bo$59bo19bo75bo66bobo$108bo46bobo64b2o$108bobo44b2o$108b2o
2$69bo$69bo$69bo5$37bo$37bo$37bo9$68b3o4$212bo$145bo64b2o$98bo44b2o66b
2o$36b3o57b2o46b2o$97b2o8$69bo$69bo$69bo5$37bo$37bo$37bo7$200bo$133bo
65bo$68b3o61bo66b3o$132b3o$36b3o$36b3o$35bo3bo$35b2ob2o7$32bobo2bo2bob
o$32b2o3bo3b2o$33bo3bo3bo2$68b2o$26b3ob2o11b2ob3o19b2o$26bobob2o11b2ob
obo$28bo2b2o9b2o2bo$29b6o5b6o$23b2o5bo13bo5b2o$22bo2bo4b2o2bo5bo2b2o4b
o2bo$22b2obo5b3o7b3o5bob2o$22b2ob2o21b2ob2o3$188bobo$121bobo64b2o$121b
2o66bo$36b3o83bo2$36bobo$36bobo29b2o$35bo3bo28b2o$35bo3bo$35b2ob2o4$
33bo7bo$25bob6obo5bob6obo$23b3ob6o9b6ob3o$25bo2bo2b5o3b5o2bo2bo$25bobo
4bobo5bobo4bobo$26bo21bo$27b3obo11bob3o$28b3o13b3o3$68b2o$68b2o2$36b3o
2$177bo$110bo66bobo$110bobo64b2o$110b2o2$36b3o2$36bobo$34bo5bo$33b3obo
b3o$29b3obo7bob3o$28bobo4bobobo4bobo$35bobobo28b2o$29b4o2b5o2b4o22b2o$
30b2o4bobo4b2o$30b5o5b5o$32b3o5b3o4$28bo17bo$28bo2b2o3b3o3b2o2bo$30b3o
9b3o$28bo17bo$28bo17bo4$167bo$68b2o30bo64b2o$68b2o28b2o66b2o$99b2o$36b
3o$35bo3bo$34bo5bo$34bo5bo$34b3ob3o7$32bo9bo$31bo4b3o4bo$31b3o7b3o$68b
2o$27b2o17b2o20b2o$26bob2o15b2obo$26bo21bo$29bo15bo$27b3o15b3o$22b3o8b
2o5b2o8b3o$25bo6bo9bo6bo$21bo9bo11bo9bo$22b5o5b2o7b2o5b5o$25bo23bo105b
o$88bo65bo$87bo66b3o$87b3o$37bo$36b3o$35bo3bo$35bo3bo28b2o$35b2ob2o28b
2o$35bo3bo$34bo5bo$34b2o3b2o$35bo3bo$30b2o11b2o$28bo3bo9bo3bo$27bo5bo
7bo5bo$25bob2o3b2o7b2o3b2obo$24bobo2b7o3b7o2bobo$26bo6bo2bobo2bo6bo$
24b2o7b3o3b3o7b2o$25bobo6bo5bo6bobo$26bobo17bobo$27bo19bo2$68b2o$68b2o
2$37bo$37bo$37bo105bobo$143b2o$144bo3$37bo$36b3o$35bo3bo$33bo7bo$33bo
7bo$29b2o2bo3bo3bo2b2o$28b2o6bobo6b2o$29bo5bo3bo5bo$30bob4o3b4obo$36bo
bo$32bo9bo$32bo9bo$33bobo3bobo$34bo5bo3$37bo$29bo7bo7bo$28bo2bo5bo5bo
2bo5$132bo$132bobo$132b2o$37bo$36b3o$35b5o$34bo5bo$33b2o5b2o$32b2o7b2o
$33bobo3bobo$34b2o3b2o6$37bo$32bo4bo4bo$30b2o5bo5b2o$28bob3o9b3obo$27b
5o11b5o$26b2ob2o13b2ob2o$26b2ob3o11b3ob2o$26b5o13b5o$27bob2o13b2obo$
24bo3b2o2b3o5b3o2b2o3bo$34bo5bo$26bo6b2o5b2o6bo$22bo3b2o4bo9bo4b2o73bo
$120b2o$121b2o2$37bo$36b3o$34b2obob2o$34b2o3b2o$34bobobobo$37bo$32b3o
5b3o$32b3o5b3o$33bobo3bobo$32b3o5b3o$31b3o7b3o$33bo7bo$26bo21bo$25bobo
3b2o9b2o3bobo$26b2o3b2o2bo3bo2b2o3b2o$25b3o3b2obobobobob2o3b3o$23b5o3b
o11bo3b5o$24b4o4b2ob2ob2ob2o4b4o$25b2obo5bo5bo5bob2o$26b2o19b2o5$110bo
$36b3o70bo$109b3o4$37bo$36b3o$35bo3bo$37bo$33bo3bo3bo$28b2o3bo7bo3b2o$
28b2o3bob5obo3b2o$27bo6bob3obo6bo$28b2o15b2o$28b5o9b5o$32bo9bo$31bo2b
2o3b2o2bo$31b2ob2o3b2ob2o$32bo2bo3bo2bo$33b2o5b2o4$36b3o5$98bobo$98b2o
$99bo$36b3o2$35bo3bo$35bo3bo$33bo7bo$31b2o4bo4b2o$31bo4bobo4bo$31bo3bo
3bo3bo$32b2obo3bob2o$34bo5bo6$30b2o4b3o4b2o$27bo3bo11bo3bo$27bo3bo11bo
3bo$27bo19bo3$31b2o9b2o$29bo4bo5bo4bo$35bo3bo$26b2obo5bo3bo5bob2o$32bo
2bo3bo2bo44bo$26b2o4bobo5bobo4b2o38bobo$87b2o2$36b3o$36b3o$35bo3bo$33b
o2bobo2bo3$37bo$33bo2b3o2bo$33b3o3b3o5$26b2o5bo7bo5b2o$26bobobo13bobob
o$30bob2obo3bob2obo$26bo3bobo2b2ob2o2bobo3bo$26bo4b2o3bobo3b2o4bo$23b
2o4bob2o2b2ob2o2b2obo4b2o$23bo5bo3bobo3bobo3bo5bo$24bo25bo$25b3o19b3o
3$77bo$37bo37b2o$37bo38b2o$37bo3$37bo$36bobo$35b2ob2o3$33bo7bo$28b2o2b
obo5bobo2b2o$26b2obo2bo9bo2bob2o$26bo2b2o13b2o2bo$26bo3b4o7b4o3bo$27bo
5b2o5b2o5bo$28bo2b3obo3bob3o2bo$29b4o9b4o$30bob2o2bobo2b2obo$31bo11bo$
32b4o3b4o$33bo7bo2$37bo$37bo$37bo2$65bo$64bo$64b3o12$36b3o16$37bo$37bo
$37bo!


Note that I did not synchronize the right half with the original endcap (see the gaps in the blinker rows), so it needs some adjuster pies there. Just to get it out...

HartmutHolzwart
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » May 14th, 2015, 12:37 pm

1) Are there any new onesided recipes for small *WSS flotillas coming out of apgsearch?
2) Would these help in building new helices?

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dvgrn
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by dvgrn » May 14th, 2015, 8:06 pm

HartmutHolzwart wrote:1) Are there any new onesided recipes for small *WSS flotillas coming out of apgsearch?
Don't think so. The most common *WSS flotilla that Catagolue has found is about two million times rarer than its corresponding singleton spaceship. 99% of soups either won't suggest any obvious recipe at all, or they won't produce a reasonable one-sided recipe. And there are only about seventy such soups to sort through, anyway.

There are probably thousands of soups that produce fairly closely spaced small flotillas. Maybe that's enough that a few of them would happen to suggest a one-sided recipe. But unless the spaceships are so close that apgsearch's recognition code can't separate them, or unless there are so many spaceships that it generates a high score, those soups won't be flagged in any special way, so there's no way to find them.
HartmutHolzwart wrote:2) Would these help in building new helices?
Good thought, but I don't expect any big breakthroughs. Current helix search code doesn't allow any of these *WSS-on-*WSS flotillas anyway, right? So it would be necessary to write new code to throw the various (42 possible?) flotillas into the mix -- which it seems pretty clear should only be done on a case-by-case basis, if an edge-shooting recipe can actually be found.

HartmutHolzwart
Posts: 422
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » July 11th, 2015, 4:06 pm

So again the question:

What are the best one-sided *WSS constructions currently known?

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by Kazyan » July 11th, 2015, 5:12 pm

Those would be Simkin's results on page 7 of the Engineless Caterpillar thread, I think, which I believe still need to be sorted through.

Besides the cost of the helix, are the *WSS streams that fan out the helix's glider the most efficient way of doing that, currently?
Tanner Jacobi

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by simsim314 » July 11th, 2015, 5:42 pm

I don't believe one sided (i.e. slow salvo) is good solution for very dense *WSS helixes. I would go for something like - two sided slow salvo, meaning using not the adjustment trick in the original caterpillar, and not single glider salvo but adjusted pairs, like in Gemini.

There might be an option to reduce the density of the *WSS helix somehow and then slow salvos will work much better. Not saying it's impossible to work out some slow salvo recipes, but I think it will be very messy and hard, and this is very risky path.

Another problem is that my recipes are monochromatic single state, you should run the Glue++ for non monochromatic and non same state.

Notice that no "Glue" for glider pairs exists, but it's not hard to modify Glue++ for glider pairs.

----

Anyway I would rather challenge to find a universal design for every speed > c/2, as the main problem is the restriction of using gliders or any diagonal signal for that matter.

Maybe some recursive caterloopillar (using slower cateloopillars as signals to construct faster ones) or something of the sort.

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » July 21st, 2015, 8:42 am

I seem to be too vague with my questions:

Is it possible now to construct this constellation of *WSS with a one-sided (not necessarily slow salvo) approach fast enough for x6 (i.e. p240)?

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 181, rule = B3/S23
11$40b3o$39bo2bo$42bo$38bo3bo$42bo$39bobo5$38b3o$37bo2bo$40bo$36bo3bo$
36bo3bo$40bo$37bobo17$40b3o$40bo2bo$40bo$40bo3bo$40bo$41bobo5$38b3o$
38bo2bo$38bo$38bo3bo$38bo3bo$38bo$39bobo17$40b3o$39bo2bo$42bo$38bo3bo$
42bo$39bobo5$38b3o$37bo2bo$40bo$36bo3bo$36bo3bo$40bo$37bobo17$40b3o$
40bo2bo$40bo$40bo3bo$40bo$41bobo5$38b3o$38bo2bo$38bo$38bo3bo$38bo3bo$
38bo$39bobo17$40b3o$39bo2bo$42bo$38bo3bo$42bo$39bobo5$38b3o$37bo2bo$
40bo$36bo3bo$36bo3bo$40bo$37bobo!


Moerover: Do we now have the technology to construct the x5 helix (that must be fast enough for p225)?

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by dvgrn » July 22nd, 2015, 2:04 pm

HartmutHolzwart wrote:Is it possible now to construct this constellation of *WSS with a one-sided (not necessarily slow salvo) approach fast enough for x6 (i.e. p240)?
That would be p270 = 6*45, right? *WSSes are separated by 33 cells = 66 ticks, because 66 + (17*2)*6 = 45*6 for a 17c/45 pattern.

There are a lot of new results that I haven't sorted through. But HWSS recipes have continued to be relatively rare, and I haven't run across anything yet that's good enough to add an HWSS just behind that MWSS, and then get out of the way afterward. The most likely candidate I saw from simsim314's latest run -- second in the #19 row -- needs the MWSS to be two lanes farther over:

Code: Select all

x = 92, y = 237, rule = B3/S23
39bo49bo$38b3o47b3o$37b2obo46b2obo$37b3o47b3o$37b3o47b3o$38b2o48b2o5$
35bo51bo$34b3o49b3o$33b2obo48b2obo$33b3o49b3o$33b3o49b3o$33b3o49b3o$
34b2o50b2o6$bo51bo$2bo51bo$3o49b3o4$23b2o50b2o$22bobo49bobo$22b2o50b2o
3$4b2o33bo16b2o31bo$3bobo32b3o14bobo30b3o$3b2o33bob2o13b2o31bob2o$39b
3o47b3o$39b3o47b3o$39b2o48b2o3$12bo51bo$11bobo49bobo$11bo2bo20bo27bo2b
o20bo$12b2o20b3o27b2o20b3o$19b2o13bob2o33b2o13bob2o$7b3o9b2o14b3o21b3o
9b2o14b3o$35b3o49b3o$5bo5bo23b3o19bo5bo23b3o$5bo5bo23b2o20bo5bo23b2o$
5bo5bo45bo5bo$2bo51bo$2bo4b3o44bo4b3o$2bo51bo13$39bo49bo$38b3o47b3o$
37b2obo46b2obo$37b3o47b3o$37b3o47b3o$38b2o48b2o5$35bo51bo$34b3o49b3o$
33b2obo48b2obo$33b3o49b3o$33b3o49b3o$33b3o49b3o$34b2o50b2o17$39bo49bo$
38b3o47b3o$38bob2o46bob2o$39b3o47b3o$39b3o47b3o$39b2o48b2o28$39bo49bo$
38b3o47b3o$37b2obo46b2obo$37b3o47b3o$37b3o47b3o$38b2o48b2o28$39bo49bo$
38b3o47b3o$38bob2o46bob2o$39b3o47b3o$39b3o47b3o$39b2o48b2o28$39bo49bo$
38b3o47b3o$37b2obo46b2obo$37b3o47b3o$37b3o47b3o$38b2o48b2o28$39bo49bo$
38b3o47b3o$38bob2o46bob2o$39b3o47b3o$39b3o47b3o$39b2o48b2o!
I might easily have missed something. Haven't looked at simsim314's 3SL *WSS seeds for a while, for example, so maybe there's something there. On the slow-salvo side of things, it's probably time to collect all the known *WSS seeds and recipes into a database, so that it's easy to get answers to questions like this by running a script.

I don't _think_ that I've seen any MWSS recipes go by that would be likely to be able to throw an MWSS two lanes to the right of a p240 HWSS stream, either. Getting an MWSS in ahead of an HWSS is easy enough, but it takes too long to get there:

Code: Select all

x = 144, y = 153, rule = B3/S23
bo99bo$2bo99bo$3o97b3o29$34b2o98b2o$33bo2bo96bo2bo$33bo2bo96bo2bo$13b
3o11b3o4b2o77b3o11b3o4b2o2$11bo9bo9bo79bo9bo9bo$11bo8bobo8bo79bo8bobo
8bo$11bo9b2o8bo79bo9b2o8bo3$16bo99bo$15bobo97bobo$15bobo97bobo$16bo99b
o3$19b2o98b2o$19b2o98b2o65$139b3o$138bo2bo$141bo$137bo3bo$137bo3bo$
141bo$138bobo27$39b3o97b3o$39bo2bo96bo2bo$39bo99bo$39bo3bo95bo3bo$39bo
3bo95bo3bo$39bo99bo$40bobo97bobo!
As simsim314 suggested, it will certainly be worth re-running Glue++ to generate polychromatic HWSS seeds, since the latest run was monochromatic, making the recipes much more expensive on average.

A glider-pair search would be even more interesting -- an enormous search space is reachable with just three or four pairs of gliders. A workable HWSS recipe for that x6 helix doesn't seem out of the question, just very very rare, so we'll probably have to look at a ridiculous number of candidate reactions to find it.

EDIT: No, there are only three HWSS recipes in the 3SL edge-shooter results, and none of them are suitable. I'd say the odds are that a search would run for at least several weeks on a good computer before it would be likely to turn up a workable recipe for the x6 helix.

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » July 22nd, 2015, 3:26 pm

That would be p270 = 6*45, right?
-> yes!

My idea would have been to first build the still lifes for both *WSS simultaneously and then igniting them with a final glider each simultaneously as well.

Not feasible?

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by dvgrn » July 22nd, 2015, 10:42 pm

HartmutHolzwart wrote:My idea would have been to first build the still lifes for both *WSS simultaneously and then igniting them with a final glider each simultaneously as well.

Not feasible?
Well, I don't think so. Not unless we're allowed to build one *WSS from each side -- then simultaneous construction could be made to work pretty easily, I think.

Otherwise, the still lifes for one *WSS construction would inevitably overlap the still lifes for the other one. There just plain isn't very much room in the 33-cell-wide stripe between one turn of the helix and the next.

Of course you can offset one set of still lifes whatever short distance is necessary... but then you can't ignite them simultaneously, and thus the construction can't be simultaneous, and we're back to the other problem.

Conclusion: we still need to search maybe 100 billion recipes to find the hypothetical unusually good HWSS edge-shooter needed to build the x6 helix. That's just a guess -- it might take a trillion recipes. All we know is that HWSS recipes are maybe about one in a billion, and that none of them have been quite good enough yet...!

-- And as simsim314 mentioned above, the easiest and cheapest place to find 10^11 or 10^12 never-before-searched reactions is the space of slow glider-pair salvos.

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by simsim314 » July 23rd, 2015, 8:00 am

dvgrn wrote:we still need to search maybe 100 billion recipes to find the hypothetical unusually good HWSS edge-shooter
My last run reached approx. 3 Billion slow salvos cases and it got 5/8 HWSS edge shooters (which is about 30% of full kit). I missed the fact that int is in billion range, and currently Glue++ is limited by MAX_INT. This is pretty stupid mistake, but if someone wants to run Glue++ please make sure you fix this issue (or let me know).

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by dvgrn » July 23rd, 2015, 11:21 am

simsim314 wrote:My last run reached approx. 3 Billion slow salvos cases and it got 5/8 HWSS edge shooters (which is about 30% of full kit).
Let's see, we don't need a full kit of HWSSes for the x6 Caterpillar helix, we just need one very quick insertion recipe. Looking at the sample I posted, it really doesn't seem terribly unlikely that such a recipe is out there. That sample only misses by two rows, and it actually builds the HWSS backward -- i.e., the spark overshoots the target lane slightly, then collapses back into position. Seems as if the odds are good that there's a spark out there somewhere that keeps moving right as it metamorphoses into an HWSS.

Instead of that, or if that fails, we could also look into building an LWSS or MWSS stream, and then upgrading it to HWSS. The conversions I know about are all two-sided, I think, but they're optimized for very tight spaces:

Code: Select all

#C p22 MWSS to HWSS
x = 42, y = 44, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o3$7bo13bo$8bo11b3o$6b3o11bob2o$21b3o$21b3o$21b3o$13bo7b2o$
11bobo$12b2o3$21bo$20b3o5b3o$19b2obo5bo$19b3o7bo$19b3o$13b2o5b2o$12bob
o19b2o$14bo19bobo$34bo3$7b3o11bo$9bo10b3o16b3o$8bo11bob2o15bo$21b3o16b
o$21b3o$2b2o17b2o$bobo$3bo4$21bo$20b3o$19b2obo$19b3o$19b3o$20b2o!
With 66 ticks' worth of space instead of 22, isn't it likely that there's a spark that can sideswipe the back of an LWSS or MWSS and upgrade it? Or the spark could extend the front, I suppose, but that seems less likely to play well with the previous MWSS in the x6 helix. Anyway, that would give another huge search space in which to hunt for solutions.
simsim314 wrote:I missed the fact that int is in billion range, and currently Glue++ is limited by MAX_INT. This is pretty stupid mistake, but if someone wants to run Glue++ please make sure you fix this issue (or let me know).
I'd definitely be interested in getting Glue++ running in the background on my machine, to collect more HWSS edge shooters. Would be particularly interested in seeing what kind of polychromatic recipes Glue++ could come up with -- though that search was done up to a point by oblique's 'sscs' search program.

So I guess I'd be even more interested to see what Glue++ can find in the way of slow glider-pair edge shooters. You said was a "not hard" modification, as I recall, but honestly I'm not too inclined to attempt that alteration myself...!

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by dvgrn » July 23rd, 2015, 12:26 pm

dvgrn wrote:Seems as if the odds are good that there's a spark out there somewhere that keeps moving right as it metamorphoses into an HWSS.
You know, I think I'd better retract that. It's not absolutely impossible, maybe, but I'm now betting that it's very very unlikely -- just a one-in-a-quadrillion or one-in-a-quintillion chance of coming across a working reaction in a slow-salvo search.

Here for example is what looks like a pretty good HWSS edge shooter -- and look how far it is from working. The spark collides with three different *WSSes in the pre-existing stream:

Code: Select all

x = 117, y = 199, rule = LifeHistory
.A79.A$2.A79.A$3A77.3A4$22.2A78.2A$21.A2.A76.A2.A$22.2A78.2A7$21.2D
78.2D$10.A10.2D67.A10.2D$10.A79.A$10.A13.3A63.A13.3A3$16.2A78.2A$16.
2A78.2A5$2.A79.A$2.A79.A$2.A79.A32$114.A$113.3A$112.2A.A$112.3A$112.
3A$113.2A5$112.A$111.3A$110.2A.A$110.3A$110.3A$110.3A$111.2A17$114.A$
113.3A$113.A.2A$114.3A$114.3A$114.2A5$112.A$111.3A$111.A.2A$112.3A$
112.3A$112.3A$112.2A17$114.A$113.3A$112.2A.A$112.3A$112.3A$113.2A5$
112.D$111.3D$110.2D.D$110.3D$110.3D$110.3D$111.2D17$114.A$113.3A$113.
A.2A$114.3A$114.3A$114.2A28$114.A$113.3A$112.2A.A$112.3A$112.3A$113.
2A!
The key highly-unlikely item has to do with the MWSS spark. It looks like the HWSS-making reaction has to travel at lightspeed for at least five generations to get the long right edge of the HWSS to the correct lane in time after the MWSS has passed by. That translates to a straight line of length 16 at time T-5 -- no other possible options -- and we actually need length 17 to suppress the interaction with the MWSS's spark.

-- And on top of that, the region behind the line has to be adjusted so that when the line shrinks to length 6, a good HWSS (or near predecessor) has magically appeared to the left of it. That takes a lot more optimism than I can come up with:

Code: Select all

x = 33, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
4.A26.A$3.3A24.3A$2.2A.A19.C3.2A.A$2.3A20.C3.3A$2.3A20.C3.3A$3.2A20.C
4.2A$25.C$25.C$3.D21.C4.D$3.D21.C4.D$2.AD21.C4.D$.2AC21.C4.D$2A.C21.C
4.D$3AD21.C4.D$3A22.C$3A22.C$.2A22.C$25.C$25.C!
Can anyone point out a flaw in this analysis? If not, we're looking at something like a (wild guess) one-in-10^20 reaction, and the odds are basically zero that any slow-salvo search will ever find it. Even a slow-pairs search won't really help -- to travel fast enough, the reaction still has to produce a length-17 straight line.

What about the idea of upgrading an LWSS or MWSS to an HWSS, though -- or delaying the leading MWSS, or upgrading it from an LWSS? Are those options equally susceptible to this kind of reality-check analysis? Seems as if five ticks of lightspeed would still be needed even to build an LWSS that close to the MWSS, and therefore a length-15 straight line:

Code: Select all

x = 33, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory
4.A26.A$3.3A24.3A$2.2A.A19.C3.2A.A$2.3A20.C3.3A$2.3A20.C3.3A$3.2A20.C
4.2A$25.C$25.C$3.D21.C4.D$3.D21.C4.D$2.AD21.C4.D$.2AC21.C4.D$2A.A21.C
$3A22.C$.2A22.C$25.C$25.C!
Maybe with the extra distance available between LWSSes, it might be easier to build the MWSS after the LWSS? But that's still pretty close to light speed for several ticks, I think -- haven't tried that analysis yet.

The most likely construction might turn out to be a simultaneous construction, as Hartmut suggested. There's no room to build the seeds separately, so it would have to be a combined seed that happens to produce that exact MWSS+HWSS combination.

That's certainly not impossible. There could easily be a seed like that out there somewhere -- but it seems as if it would be a one-in-10^20 lucky coincidence again, and therefore unfindable without a big breakthrough in the search algorithm.

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by HartmutHolzwart » February 18th, 2016, 4:44 pm

My search for a wayto build a second row of blinkers by using one glider and an already existing pi blinker row did not lead to any useful results so far.

However I noticed the following 17c/45 pi "puffer":

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 340, rule = B3/S23
6$30bo$30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo16$
29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$
30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$
30bo$30bo16$29b3o16$30bo$30bo$30bo5$30bo$29b3o$28bo3bo$26bo7bo$26bo7bo
$22b2o2bo3bo3bo2b2o$21b2o6bobo6b2o$22bo5bo3bo5bo$23bob4o3b4obo$29bobo$
25bo9bo$25bo$26bobo3bo3bo$27bo5b3o2$36b2o!
As such, this is not really impressive. But it could be a starting point to search for other puffer orbits. I have in mind that someone systematically searched for puffer orbits by systematically monitoring the evolution of small perturbations. I can't find a reference on the forums, though. Can someone help me out?

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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by codeholic » February 18th, 2016, 5:20 pm

Jason Summers once wrote a script for searching alternative switch engine orbits (that found nothing so far). I modified this script to search for orbits supported by a 9c/30 pi wave (I found only one that was non trivial, too dirty and of a too large period to be useful for anything).

Here is Jason's original script https://github.com/conwaylife/seo-search

You can also take a look at fuse finder https://github.com/conwaylife/fuse-finder that's the script that found a way to burn exhaust from the pufferfish.
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by muzik » February 19th, 2016, 4:39 am

One question: is it necessary that the caterpillar has to be this long? It would definitely be better if we could compress it down to just a few of the "kite glider formations" around the 17c/45 reaction area.
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Re: Caterpillar's little brother research

Post by biggiemac » February 19th, 2016, 5:00 am

muzik wrote:One question: is it necessary that the caterpillar has to be this long? It would definitely be better if we could compress it down to just a few of the "kite glider formations" around the 17c/45 reaction area.
A caterpillar design uses the "kite glider formations" to build the helix that keeps it going. At 6x 17c/45, the helix from the original caterpillar is the best known. Somewhere in this thread there is a somewhat simpler 5x helix but it is still a large number of spaceships because of how close 17c/45 is to c/2 (the details on that come from the available glider + 2 or 3 upward *WSS options).

It takes as many kite glider formations as there are spaceships to synthesize in the helix. The Waterbear had 10 syntheses, so it was small. The caterpillar has over 100. So if you can find a smaller helix, a smaller ship will result, but it can't just "be made smaller."
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