"Fast Salvos"
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
"Fast Salvos"
This thread is to talk about "fast salvos". In other words, salvos that need timing to work.
Currently, I'm trying to find a reasonably small salvo that pushes a block (or anything else) by (15,15), and emits at least one glider heading in the opposite direction from the salvo, but no gliders in the same direction as the salvo.
Currently, I'm trying to find a reasonably small salvo that pushes a block (or anything else) by (15,15), and emits at least one glider heading in the opposite direction from the salvo, but no gliders in the same direction as the salvo.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
Re: "Fast Salvos"
What's your upper limit for the size of the salvo? I have collections of recipes that include lots of ways to do that, but not very efficiently  ten or a dozen gliders, it looks like.Extrementhusiast wrote:Currently, I'm trying to find a reasonably small salvo that pushes a block (or anything else) by (15,15), and emits at least one glider heading in the opposite direction from the salvo, but no gliders in the same direction as the salvo.
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I'm looking for something on the order of five gliders. (Moves that produce a sideways glider are also OK; the last glider can just be kicked back.)
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I tried writing a script to run random combinations of three gliders and see how often a good push reaction would come along. So far the results haven't been terribly promising, but clearly there's a lot of space to search. The most likely reaction I saw was probablyExtrementhusiast wrote:I'm looking for something on the order of five gliders.
Code: Select all
x = 22, y = 14, rule = LifeHistory
2C2.2A$2C2.A.A$4.A8$12.2A$12.A.A4.2A$12.A6.A.A$19.A!
Code: Select all
x = 62, y = 58, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C3.2A$4.2A$6.A8$13.2A$12.2A6.2A$14.A4.2A$21.A36$47.2A10.3A$46.2A
11.A$48.A11.A3$51.3A$51.A$52.A!
Code: Select all
x = 63, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
.2C$.2C3$2A$A.A$A4$16.2A$16.A.A$16.A6$16.2A$15.2A$17.A8$25.A$24.2A$
24.A.A15$35.A$34.2A$34.A.A14$42.A$41.2A$41.A.A9$61.A$60.2A$60.A.A!
Code: Select all
x = 273, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
.2C108.2C98.2C$.2C108.2C98.2C3$2A108.2A98.2A$A.A107.A.A97.A.A$A109.A
99.A4$16.2A108.2A98.2A$16.A.A107.A.A97.A.A$16.A109.A99.A6$16.2A108.2A
98.2A$15.2A108.2A98.2A$17.A109.A99.A8$25.A109.A99.A$24.2A108.2A98.2A$
24.A.A107.A.A97.A.A7$147.3A$147.A$148.A5$31.3A$31.A209.3A$32.A208.A$
242.A25$61.A109.A99.A$60.2A108.2A98.2A$60.A.A107.A.A97.A.A!
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I'm deciding to revisit this problem, with a bit of a difference. Is it possible to have a threeglider salvo to move it five spaces diagonally, with the same restrictions otherwise?
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Is any additional junk allowed?
EDIT: Any restriction on the duration of the reaction?
EDIT: Any restriction on the duration of the reaction?
Ivan Fomichev
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: "Fast Salvos"
No additional junk is allowed. Reaction length can be any amount of time. Anything can be pushed.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Here you are:
Code: Select all
x = 12, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o4b2o$6bobo$6bo4$5b2o$5bobo$5bo2$9b3o$9bo$10bo!
Ivan Fomichev
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I wonder, if one can build a spaceship out of blockic seeds and fast salvos like following:
2G+B>2G+B
2G+B>2G+2B
2G+B>2G
2G+B>2G+B
Code: Select all
x = 212, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2o98b2o98b2o$2o98b2o98b2o$6b2o98b2o$6bobo97bobo97b2o$6bo99bo99bobo$
206bo2$4b2o124b2o$4bobo123bobo$4bo125bo79b2o$209b2o$211bo!
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o$6b2o$6bobo$6bo6$15b2o$14b2o$16bo!
Code: Select all
x = 128, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
2o98b2o$2o98b2o$6b2o98b2o$6bobo97bobo$6bo99bo6$126bo$25b2o98b2o$25bobo
97bobo$25bo!
Ivan Fomichev
Re: "Fast Salvos"
A faster one (and the search is still running):
Code: Select all
x = 15, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o2$6b2o$6bobo$6bo8$10b2o$9b2o$11bo9$12b3o$12bo$13bo!
Ivan Fomichev
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: "Fast Salvos"
What about four or fiveglider searches on 15space pushes?
EDIT: 23space pushes would also work, but that may be getting to be a bit too far.
EDIT: 23space pushes would also work, but that may be getting to be a bit too far.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I'm afraid that anything more than a superficial search involving 5+ colliding objects is out of the reach of gencols. I think it's more probable to find (15, 15) block pusher with 3 gliders. Unfortunately I don't have a spare machine to start the search right away. Are you interested in more results of (5, 5) search or shall I stop it and run a new one?
Ivan Fomichev
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Alan Hensel mentioned something very much like this a few months ago  he called them "fluff relays". Seems to me that, while it's certainly possible that such a spaceship exists, the odds are pretty low of actually finding a combination of seeds where all the input and output gliders line upcodeholic wrote:I wonder, if one can build a spaceship out of blockic seeds and fast salvos...
The simplest case that would produce a spaceship might be two groups of blocks with a glider shuttling back and forth between them. Each collision recreates that same pattern of blocks at some offset (X,Y) and creates a 180degree return glider that lines up with the opposite input. The two block constellations have to be different from each other  the glider in one direction has to do a "push" and the other one a "pull" of the exact same size. Otherwise it's some kind of growing pattern, not a normal spaceship.
Fulfilling even one of the above conditions strikes me as wildly improbable. Fulfilling all of them together seems like just plain too much to hope for, so I think I'll stick with search projects that have a better chance of succeeding.
That said, I would love to see a "fluff database" with a few billion records in it  I'm sure one could find some impressive cycles, some variant of A > B > C > A as Alan Hensel described... but it seems like you'd have to look at millions of different cycles before you found one where all the gliders would line up properly.
I would be most happy if someone would prove me wrong about this.
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I've found a (15, 15) block pusher with 5 gliders.
EDIT: By the way, there are two alternative (3, 5) 2glider block pushers that could be used (but they stabilize later):
EDIT: The second alternative is somewhat special, because the return glider does not interact with any salvos, that might be still in flight. Though probably it does not matter for your goal.
Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o7$6b2o$6bobo$6bo6$10bo$9b2o$9bobo3$18b2o$18bobo4bo$18bo5b2o$24bob
o8$11b3o$11bo$12bo!
Code: Select all
x = 61, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
2o48b2o$2o48b2o7$6b2o46b2o$6bobo45bobo$6bo47bo4$59b2o$58b2o$10b2o48bo$
10bobo$10bo!
Code: Select all
x = 77, y = 85, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o7$4b2o$4bobo$4bo4$9b2o$8b2o$10bo5$18b2o$18bobo4bo$18bo5b2o$24bobo
8$11b3o$11bo$12bo24$54b2o$54bobo$54bo4$59b2o$58b2o$60bo5$68b2o$68bobo
4bo$68bo5b2o$74bobo8$61b3o$61bo$62bo!
Last edited by codeholic on September 4th, 2013, 3:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ivan Fomichev
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Well, the idea with one glider is not new. Gabriel Nivasch even wrote a script once, that searches for such kind of collisions: http://www.gabrielnivasch.org/fun/life/dvgrn wrote:Alan Hensel mentioned something very much like this a few months ago  he called them "fluff relays".
I wondered, if another approach could be more promising, namely instead of getting variance on the stable part of the pattern, to get it from different glider constellations, and use a single block as a target. But probably, it's not.
Ivan Fomichev
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Another approach gave other 5 5glider (15, 15) block pushers:
I found no 5glider (23, 23) block pushers, but plenty of 6glider pushers, e. g.
If you're interested in more of them, I'll write a script to display them.
Code: Select all
x = 248, y = 53, rule = B3/S23
2o48b2o48b2o48b2o48b2o$2o7b2o39b2o48b2o48b2o48b2o$9bobo44b2o98b2o48b2o
$9bo46bobo47b2o48bobo47bobo$28bo27bo49bobo47bo49bo$27b2o77bo$b3o23bobo
86b3o$bo114bo$2bo114bo3$68b3o103b3o41b3o$68bo105bo43bo$63b2o4bo105bo
37b2o4bo$63bobo147bobo$63bo149bo5$173b3o$121bo51bo$120b2o52bo$120bobo
3$40b2o$40bobo$40bo3$95b2o148b2o$95bobo147bobo$95bo149bo2$39b3o$39bo
110b2o$40bo109bobo$150bo2$94b3o147b3o$94bo110b2o37bo$95bo109bobo37bo$
205bo2$149b3o$149bo$150bo3$204b3o$204bo$205bo!
Code: Select all
x = 57, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
12b3o$2o10bo$2o11bo$6b2o$6bobo$6bo4$20bo$19b2o$19bobo7$36b2o$36bobo7b
2o$36bo8b2o7b2o$47bo6bobo$54bo!
Ivan Fomichev
 Extrementhusiast
 Posts: 1817
 Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
 Location: USA

 Posts: 372
 Joined: June 13th, 2015, 12:04 pm
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Is necroposting frowned upon at these forums? This post is relevant to the topic, so I think it'd be better to bump this thread than make a new one. I've tried using gencols for these, but filt, leq and geq seem to have no effect on the output  I'm using the Windows executable dvgrn posted in 2013  and I'd rather not have to manually search through the results.
I'm currently looking for both a twounitpush salvo and a twounit pull that use only two gliders and don't return anything. There are probably hundreds of them, but I haven't found anything by hand.
Also, what's the largest distance that a block can be both pushed and pulled with three gliders (again without a return glider)? It would help if it were a factor or multiple of a common period, specifically 46 or 30.
I'm currently looking for both a twounitpush salvo and a twounit pull that use only two gliders and don't return anything. There are probably hundreds of them, but I haven't found anything by hand.
Also, what's the largest distance that a block can be both pushed and pulled with three gliders (again without a return glider)? It would help if it were a factor or multiple of a common period, specifically 46 or 30.
nutshell • tlife • Discord 'Conwaylife Lounge'gamer54657 wrote:God save us all.
God save humanity.
hgkhjfgh
Re: "Fast Salvos"
I don't think there are hundreds  hundreds of block moves, certainly, but not ones that keep the block on the same diagonal. The twoglider search space isn't big enough, though the threeglider space should be.M. I. Wright wrote:I'm currently looking for both a twounitpush salvo and a twounit pull that use only two gliders and don't return anything. There are probably hundreds of them, but I haven't found anything by hand.
Paul Chapman did some work along these general lines, several years ago, but the idea quickly changed to allow multiple "cycles" of gliders, as long as they came in the rightsized groups and on the same three lanes. Then it turned out that triplets of gliders were overkill  you could make a Geminoid construction arm with pairs of gliders on just two lanes.M. I. Wright wrote:Also, what's the largest distance that a block can be both pushed and pulled with three gliders (again without a return glider)? It would help if it were a factor or multiple of a common period, specifically 46 or 30.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a PUSH3 with three gliders (PULL3 is trivial). But PUSH2 and PULL2 are much more likely to exist, and PUSH1 and PULL1 are the only ones I'd really bet on. PULL6 and (especially) PUSH6 seem a little overoptimistic to hope for, from just three gliders... not that I would mind being pleasantly surprised.
I'm curious about what went wrong when you tried gencols  and it's probably time for me to remind myself how gencols works, anyway. Here goes:
If there's going to be a push or pull reaction, one of the gliders will have to hit the block. So let's start there.
First I tried
gencols pat obj/block.life obj/glider_nw.life tc 20 20 filt 1 > gliderblockcollisions.life
but that was wrong  the fifth line gave me a "reaction" where the glider missed the block completely. Eventually I figured out that gencols only seems to apply filters and geq and leq parameters when there's a "gen" target setting. So you get better results from
gencols pat obj/block.life obj/glider_nw.life tc 20 20 filt 12 gen 256 > gliderblockcollisions.life
The output format is a little annoying  you get the final pattern packed onto the same line with the initial pattern, separated by a space. I use a text editor with regularexpression search and replace to delete everything after the space in all the lines, when I don't need that information  or delete everything before the space, if I only want to work with the output. Here's a cleanedup version to use for the next step:
gliderblockcollisions.life:
Code: Select all
**!**!!!!!!!....**!....*.*!....*!
**!**!!!!!!!......**!......*.*!......*!
**!**!!!!!!!...**!...*.*!...*!
**!**!!!!!!!.....**!.....*.*!.....*!
**!**!!!!!!!.......**!.......*.*!.......*!
gencols pat gliderblockcollisions.life obj/glider_nw.life tc 20 80 filt 1 nph 4 geq 4 leq 4 gen 512 > blockoutputs.life
and you get 352 passing reactions, many of which are trivial variants of the 3step twoglider block pull (and a few more are tubs, which gencols doesn't have a filter to exclude):
Code: Select all
x = 29, y = 10258, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C2$9.2C$9.C.C$9.C3$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C3$3.2C$
3.C.C$3.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C2$9.2C$9.C.C$9.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C
$4.C$10.2C$10.C.C$10.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C5$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$2C$
2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C5$5.2C$5.C.C$5.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C4$10.2C$10.
C.C$10.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C3$8.2C$7.2C$9.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$
4.C4$9.2C$8.2C$10.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C5$8.2C$7.2C$9.C12$2C$2C7$
4.2C$4.C.C$4.C4$4.3C$4.C$5.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C3$11.3C$11.C$12.C
12$2C$2C6$11.3C$4.2C5.C$4.C.C5.C$4.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.C$4.C7$8.3C$8.
C$9.C12$2C$2C5$10.C$9.2C$4.2C3.C.C$4.C.C$4.C12$2C$2C6$10.C$4.2C3.2C$
4.C.C2.C.C$4.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C4.C$4.C.C2.2C$4.C4.C.C12$2C$2C7$4.2C$4.C.
C5.C$4.C6.2C$11.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C3$8.2C$8.C.C$8.C12$2C$2C3$
11.2C$11.C.C$11.C2$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C4.2C$6.C.C3.C.C$6.C5.C
12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C4.2C$6.C6.C.C$13.C12$2C$2C6$15.2C$6.2C7.C.C$6.C.C
6.C$6.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C4$13.2C$13.C.C$13.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.
C$6.C6$10.2C$10.C.C$10.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C6$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C12$2C
$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C7.2C$6.C9.C.C$16.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C6$11.2C$11.C
.C$11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C3$16.2C$16.C.C$16.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.
C$6.C7$8.2C$8.C.C$8.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C8$8.2C$8.C.C$8.C12$2C$2C
7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C4$16.2C$16.C.C$16.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C8.2C$6.C10.C.C
$17.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C2$17.2C$17.C.C$17.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$
6.C9$11.2C$11.C.C$11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C7$15.2C$15.C.C$15.C12$
2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C11$12.2C
$12.C.C$12.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C10$15.2C$15.C.C$15.C12$2C$2C7$6.
2C$6.C.C$6.C10$17.2C$17.C.C$17.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C3$10.2C$9.2C$
11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C2$11.2C$10.2C$12.C12$2C$2C6$15.2C$6.2C6.
2C$6.C.C7.C$6.C12$2C$2C5$14.2C$13.2C$6.2C7.C$6.C.C$6.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$
6.C.C$6.C4$4.2C$3.2C$5.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$5.2C$4.2C$6.C12$2C$
2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C6$7.2C$6.2C$8.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C7$10.2C$9.2C
$11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C6$6.2C$5.2C$7.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C7.2C$
6.C8.2C$17.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C7$11.2C$10.2C$12.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$
6.C.C$6.C7$13.2C$12.2C$14.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C6$15.2C$14.2C$16.C
12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C7$5.2C$4.2C$6.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C9$7.2C
$6.2C$8.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C10$10.2C$9.2C$11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C
.C$6.C8$15.2C$14.2C$16.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C8$17.2C$16.2C$18.C12$
2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C9$17.2C$16.2C$18.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C4$6.3C
$6.C$7.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5.3C$12.C$13.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.
C3$2.3C$2.C$3.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C$15.3C$15.C$16.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C
$6.C.C$6.C4$15.3C$15.C$16.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$3.3C$3.C$4.C12$
2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C8$10.3C$10.C$11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C9$10.3C
$10.C$11.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C10$11.3C$11.C$12.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.
C.C$6.C10$8.3C$8.C$9.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C12$9.3C$9.C$10.C12$2C$
2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C11$15.3C$15.C$16.C12$2C$2C3$12.C$11.2C$11.C.C2$6.2C
$6.C.C$6.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C4.C$6.C.C2.2C$6.C4.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C3.C
$6.C4.2C$11.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C3$10.C$9.2C$9.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.
2C$6.C.C$6.C4$6.C$5.2C$5.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$9.C$8.2C$8.C.C
12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$13.C$12.2C$12.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$
12.C$11.2C$11.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C4$14.C$13.2C$13.C.C12$2C$2C
7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C6$10.C$9.2C$9.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C8$10.C$9.2C$
9.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$6.C5$16.C$15.2C$15.C.C12$2C$2C7$6.2C$6.C.C$
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C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C13$17.2C$16.2C$18.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C
8$23.2C$22.2C$24.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C14$18.2C$17.2C$19.C12$2C$2C
7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C9$24.2C$23.2C$25.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C15$19.2C$
18.2C$20.C12$2C$2C4$9.3C$9.C$10.C$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$
3.C6.3C$10.C$11.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C3$6.3C$6.C$7.C12$2C$2C6$11.
3C$3.2C6.C$3.C.C6.C$3.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C7.3C$3.C.C6.C$3.C9.C12$2C$2C7$3.
2C$3.C.C$3.C4$7.3C$7.C$8.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C7.3C$3.C9.C$14.C12$2C$
2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C5$8.3C$8.C$9.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C10.3C$14.C$
15.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C6$9.3C$9.C$10.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C$
15.3C$15.C$16.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C7$10.3C$10.C$11.C12$2C$2C7$3.
2C$3.C.C$3.C2$16.3C$16.C$17.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C8$11.3C$11.C$12.
C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C3$17.3C$17.C$18.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C9$
12.3C$12.C$13.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C4$18.3C$18.C$19.C12$2C$2C7$3.
2C$3.C.C$3.C10$13.3C$13.C$14.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C5$19.3C$19.C$
20.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C11$14.3C$14.C$15.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.
C6$20.3C$20.C$21.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$15.3C$15.C$16.C12$2C$2C
7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C7$21.3C$21.C$22.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C13$16.3C$16.
C$17.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C8$22.3C$22.C$23.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$
3.C14$17.3C$17.C$18.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C9$23.3C$23.C$24.C12$2C$
2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C15$18.3C$18.C$19.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C10$24.3C$
24.C$25.C12$2C$2C4$10.C$9.2C$9.C.C$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C
4.C$3.C5.2C$9.C.C12$2C$2C4$11.C$10.2C$10.C.C$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$2C$2C5$
12.C$11.2C$3.2C6.C.C$3.C.C$3.C12$2C$2C6$13.C$3.2C7.2C$3.C.C6.C.C$3.C
12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C3$8.C$7.2C$7.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C9.C$3.C.C7.2C$
3.C9.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C4$9.C$8.2C$8.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C
9.C$3.C10.2C$14.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C5$10.C$9.2C$9.C.C12$2C$2C
7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12.C$15.2C$15.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C6$11.C$10.2C
$10.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C$17.C$16.2C$16.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C
$3.C7$12.C$11.2C$11.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C2$18.C$17.2C$17.C.C12$
2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C8$13.C$12.2C$12.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C3$19.
C$18.2C$18.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C9$14.C$13.2C$13.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.
2C$3.C.C$3.C4$20.C$19.2C$19.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C10$15.C$14.2C$
14.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C5$21.C$20.2C$20.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C
$3.C11$16.C$15.2C$15.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C6$22.C$21.2C$21.C.C
12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C12$17.C$16.2C$16.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C
7$23.C$22.2C$22.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C13$18.C$17.2C$17.C.C12$2C$
2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C8$24.C$23.2C$23.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C14$19.C$
18.2C$18.C.C12$2C$2C7$3.2C$3.C.C$3.C9$25.C$24.2C$24.C.C!
Code: Select all
x = 265, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
69.4B$5.B2D28.2D28.2D.4B23.2DB2.B24.2D28.2D28.2D28.2D28.2D3.2B$3.3BDC
A27.2D27.B2DB.4B22.2DB.3B23.2D28.2D28.2D28.2D27.B2D5B2.B$3.4B2A.2B26.
2A23.2B.9B20.9B140.13B$.12B25.2A23.6B2A.4B19.10B137.16B$14B49.4B2.2A
2.4B19.4B2A4B136.17B$9B2.4B48.5B6.4B19.3B2A.4B24.2A110.16B$.9B2.4B49.
4B6.4B19.4B2.4B23.2A29.2A81.14B$3.8B2.4B49.4B6.2B2D19.4B2.4B53.2A29.
2A50.13B$4.2B2.2B2D2.4B49.2B2D6.BDBD19.2B2D2.2B2D83.2A29.2A21.3B$9.BD
BD2.3BD49.BDBD6.DB21.BDBD2.BDBD113.2A20.4B5.2A$10.DB4.B2DB49.DB31.DB
4.DB136.4B5.2A$17.DBD226.4B$247.2B5.2D4BDB$254.DBD2B2DB$254.D4BDBD$
254.8B$254.7B$255.5B$256.4B$257.4B$258.4B$259.4B$260.2B2D$261.BDBD$
262.DB!
gencols pat gliderblockcollisions.life obj/glider_nw.life tc 20 50 nph 4 gen 256 > gliderpairshittingblock.life
That will give you about four thousand block+2G collisions to start with. Make sure you include nph 4 (i.e., 4 phases for the third glider) or you'll only get the first thousand.
Now things get a little crazy no matter what you do! If you keep the "tc" values to a small enough range, you might be able to get a gencols search to finish in a reasonable time. You could run separate searches for "tc 20 23", "tc 24 27", etc., and see if you're getting good results.
gencols pat gliderpairshittingblock.life obj/glider_nw.life tc 20 23 filt 1 nph 4 geq 4 leq 4 gen 512 > 3gliderblockoutput.life
The above looks like it will probably take hours to complete, at least on my old laptop, and there will be lots more results for different tc ranges. You could write different ranges to different output files, or I guess maybe append to the same file with >> instead of >, but that seems a bit dangerous...! The above seems to generate several thousand candidate 3glider groups per hour on my system.
Another idea would be to split that output file into four thousand separate files, and build a long batch file that runs gencols separately on each one. That way at least you could see what progress gencols was making, and estimate how long it would take to finish.
You'll certainly need some kind of postprocessing  a Python script, let's say, that goes through all the candidate results and reports just the blocks that have reappeared on the key diagonal.
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Funny, the first PUSH reaction that showed up in my small random sample was a +2 push, not a +1:
This is just the results of a partial manual scan through the attached file, which is the output from the sample search at the end of the last posting, which is only a very small fraction of the total search space. It ran for 80 minutes on my system and produced 5661 candidate 4cell output patterns.
Again, a quick Python script needs to be written to sort out the ones that keep the block on the correct diagonal.
Code: Select all
x = 351, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
244.2B3.B$3.4B117.3B115.10B$.7B113.7B114.11B.3B$2A6B58.B54.8B113.17B$
2A7B22.2AB30.4B52.10B25.4B82.19B$2B2D6B21.ACD28.2C5B22.B2D26.2B2D7B
21.2D.4B23.2DB2.B24.2D27.B2D18B10.2D28.2D28.2D3.2B$.B2D7B21.2D27.B2C
6B19.3BDCA25.2B2D8B19.B2DB.4B22.2DB.3B22.B2D7B20.B2D23B5.2D28.2D27.B
2D5B2.B$2.10B49.3B.6B18.4B2A.2B22.4B2A2B.4B16.2B.9B20.9B20.11B19.28B
62.13B$2.8B3D47.12B15.12B21.4B2A3B.2B2D15.6B2A.4B19.10B17.14B18.28B
60.16B$2.8BD2B47.13B13.14B21.9B.BDBD14.4B2.2A2.4B19.4B2A4B16.15B16.
28B61.17B$3.4B2.2BDB47.6B.4B3D12.9B2.4B21.9B.DB15.5B6.4B19.3B2A.4B16.
8B2A5B15.11B3D13B63.16B$4.4B2.4B47.5B2.3BD2B13.9B2.4B20.10B19.4B6.4B
19.4B2.4B17.5B.2A6B16.7B2AD10B.B68.14B$5.4B2.4B47.5B2.3BD16.8B2.4B22.
8B19.4B6.2B2D19.4B2.4B16.6B.8B15.7B2ABD27.2A50.13B$6.2B2D2.2B2D48.2B
2D2.4B16.2B2.2B2D2.4B22.2B2D4B19.2B2D6.BDBD19.2B2D2.2B2D18.2B2D.3BD4B
14.5B2D31.2A29.2A21.3B$7.BDBD2.BDBD48.BDBD2.4B20.BDBD2.3BD22.BDBD4B
19.BDBD6.DB21.BDBD2.BDBD18.BDBD.B2D5B14.4BDBD61.2A20.4B5.2A$8.DB4.DB
50.DB4.3BD20.DB4.B2DB22.DB2.4B19.DB31.DB4.DB20.DB3.DBD.4B14.B.BDB84.
4B5.2A$73.B2DB26.DBD27.4B89.4B14.4B84.4B$74.DBD57.4B89.4B14.4B84.2B5.
2D4BDB$135.4B89.2B2D14.4B90.DBD2B2DB$136.4B89.BDBD14.4B89.D4BDBD$137.
2B2D89.DB16.4B88.8B$138.BDBD107.4B87.7B$139.DB109.4B87.5B$251.4B87.4B
$252.4B87.4B$253.4B87.4B$254.4B87.4B$255.B3D87.2B2D$256.D2B88.BDBD$
257.D90.DB!
Again, a quick Python script needs to be written to sort out the ones that keep the block on the correct diagonal.
 Attachments

 3gliderblockoutput.txt
 Gencols results for tc 20 23 (only)
 (861.24 KiB) Downloaded 343 times

 Posts: 372
 Joined: June 13th, 2015, 12:04 pm
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Whoa, thanks a ton! And yep, adding the gen argument did the trick for gencols.
How would I go about checking the output with Python? The output after the space is shrunken down to just the pattern (instead of including the bounding box of the initial pattern) so I assume you mean to do it within Golly, but when I try to run a python script I get the message 'The Python library does not have this symbol: Py_Initmodule4'.
How would I go about checking the output with Python? The output after the space is shrunken down to just the pattern (instead of including the bounding box of the initial pattern) so I assume you mean to do it within Golly, but when I try to run a python script I get the message 'The Python library does not have this symbol: Py_Initmodule4'.
nutshell • tlife • Discord 'Conwaylife Lounge'gamer54657 wrote:God save us all.
God save humanity.
hgkhjfgh
Re: "Fast Salvos"
Well, Python is supposed to Just Work with Golly. When it doesn't, it's usually a fairly simple mismatch between the versions: in particular, you need to have installed Python 2.x  the latest compatible version is Python 2.7.10, not 3.4.3.M. I. Wright wrote:...when I try to run a python script I get the message 'The Python library does not have this symbol: Py_Initmodule4'.
If that's not the problem, then make sure that if you're running 32bit Golly, that you've installed a 32bit version of Python, or if it's a "64bit" or "x8664" version of Golly, that you install the 64bit version of Python.
If that doesn't help, post some specifics about your platform, operating system, and if possible the names of the installer files you used for Golly and Python, and maybe someone will have some advice...!