Gun Discussion Thread

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
Sokwe
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by Sokwe » September 23rd, 2021, 1:34 pm

hotdogPi wrote:
September 23rd, 2021, 12:09 pm
p46: left is a working oscillator (already known); right is one that emits gliders but crashes into the twin bees
A gun using that reaction was posted here.
-Matthias Merzenich

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iNoMed
Posts: 227
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 3:05 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by iNoMed » September 26th, 2021, 3:06 pm

Here's an unusual period-30 glider gun variant that only requires a single queen bee to generate gliders (With the assistance of a modified period-30 pre-pulsar shuttle):

Code: Select all

x = 33, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
bo14bo$obo3b2o7bobo$bo4b3o7bo$6b2o2$20b2o$20bo2bo$6b2o16bo$bo4b3o15bo
6b2o$obo3b2o3bobo10bo6b2o$bo10b2o6bo2bo$12bo7b2o3$9b2o$7bo4bo2$6bo6bo$
4b3ob2obob3o$3bo3bo3bo4bo$3bobob2o2b5o$4b2obo2bo$7b5obo$4b3o5bobo$3bo
3b2o3bobo$4b2obobob2ob2o$5bo2bo$5bobo$4b2obobo$8b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4b2o3b2o3bo3b2ob2o3b2ob2o$2o2bobo3bo2bobobobobobobobobobo$obobo2bo2bob
o2bobo2bo2bobo3bobo$2bobo3bobobobo2bo5bobo3bobob2o$b2ob2o3b2ob2o3b2o3b
2ob2o3b2ob2o!

MathAndCode
Posts: 4958
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by MathAndCode » September 26th, 2021, 3:59 pm

iNoMed wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 3:06 pm
Here's an unusual period-30 glider gun variant that only requires a single queen bee to generate gliders (With the assistance of a modified period-30 pre-pulsar shuttle):
I reduced the bounding box by two columns.

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
2bo14bo$bobo3b2o7bobo$2bo4b3o7bo$7b2o2$19b2o$19bo2bo$2o3b2o16bo$2o3b3o
15bo$5b2o3bobo10bo$11b2o6bo2bo6b2o$11bo7b2o6bo2bo$27b3o2$8b2o16bob2o$
6bo4bo12b3obo$23bo5bo$5bo6bo11b5o$3b3ob2obob3o11bo$2bo3bo3bo4bo$2bobo
b2o2b5o$3b2obo2bo$6b5obo$3b3o5bobo$2bo3b2o3bobo$3b2obobob2ob2o$4bo2bo
$4bobo$3b2obobo$7b2o!

Jormungant
Posts: 372
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by Jormungant » September 30th, 2021, 1:56 pm

Potential path towards p64 gun... ?

Code: Select all

x = 85, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
4$17.2A18.2B$17.A.A8.2A6.3A$13.A.A.A.A8.A.A5.3BAB$9.2A.A.2A.A.2A.2A.
2A.A.A4.A3BAB$7.A2.A.A3.A.A4.A.A.A.A4.A.A2BA$4.A2.2A.A.BABA2.A.2A.B.A
.A4.A2BA.A5.2A$4.3A3.A.B2A.2BA.A.2AB2ABA2.BA3BA6.2A$7.4A.AB2ABA2.A.A.
A.A.A2.BA3B$4.2A.A3.A.A.A.B2.4AB3A5.3A5.6A$3.A.2A3B2A.A.2AB.2B2.A2B.
2B4.2B5.A3.A2.A$3.A3.2AB.A.A.2B2ABAB.2BABABA4.2B5.3A2.2A14.2A.2A$4.3A
.B.A.2A4BA.A2B.2BA3BA2.4B5.AB18.A3.A$6.A.A.A2.A3BAB.BA2BA.2B2A.2B3AB
4.2A2B5.2A5.2A4.2A$7.2A.A.BA.2BA2.BA.A.2A2B3.5B3.B2A2B3.3A6.A3.A.A.4A
2.2A$10.A.A.2BA.2A2B.A.B.B2.7BA2B.2AB3.A4.A5.4A.A.B2.A2.A.A$10.A.A.2A
.B2A2B2AB3A9B2A.3AB.BA.4A.A.3A4.ABA2BA5.A$9.2A.A9.A2.2BA2B.6BA2B.2A2B
3A.B.A.A.A2.A2BA5B4.ABA.2A$13.6A.A.A10.BAB4.B2A2BA.A3B3A2.3A.2A2.2AB
3.BA.A2.A$15.A2.A.2A10.3BA5.2A2BA2BAB3A.B2A3B3A.B2A2.3A.A.A$24.2A5.B.
3AB5.A2.3A2.A.A2B3AB2ABA.AB4AB.A.A$23.B2AB3.3B.4B4.3A.A.2A2BAB.BA.B.B
.A.A.ABABA.A$12.8B4.2B3.2A2B2.4B4.3BA2B3.B3AB.A.2A2.A.A3.A.A$11.5B2A
3B4.2B2.2A3B2.4B4.A4B3.BA2.A.2A4.A.4A.A$11.4BA2BA2B3.6BA3B3.4B3.BA3BA
B2.AB2A4.3A6.A$10.8B2A2B.12B3.4B3.A.2B3A.AB2.3A.A6.A$9.3BA5B3A2B.B3A
7B4.3BA5.A.BA3.2A2.2A7.2A$10.BA.A3BAB.AB.2BA9B5.3BA5.A.2A3.A$12.2A3B
3A4.2BA4BA4BA4.3AB5.A.A2.A$25.2BA7B.3A3.4B5.A3.2A$12.2A3B3A7.BA2BA2B
5.A3.4B$10.BA.A3BAB.AB8.A3B5A5.4B$9.3BA5B3A2B10.B3A.A.A4.4B$10.8B2A2B
11.A.A2BAB3A3.4B$11.4BA2BA2B11.B.5B4.A3.3BA$11.5B2A3B10.2A2B2ABA.3A5.
3BA$12.8B10.A.2B2.B.A.A8.3AB$30.A.A2B2A2B.A9.4B$29.2A.A.2B.AB2A.A2.A
5.4B$28.A3.2ABABA3B.4A6.4B$29.3A2.A.5BA11.4B$32.3ABA.AB5A.A7.4B$31.A
2.B4.A.B.A.2A8.3BA$31.2A.2B.3A3B13.3BA$33.4B5A15.3AB$31.3A.B.3B.BA15.
4B$30.A2.5A2BA2.A15.4B$29.A.2A4B.A.4A16.4B$29.A.A.B.3B2A21.4B$28.2A.
3A.2B.A.2A20.4B$31.A.2B.2AB.A22.3BA5.4B$28.2A.A2BA2BA2.A23.3BA3.2A2B$
28.A.A3.2AB3A.2A22.3AB.2B2A$30.A.A.A.AB.B.A24.5BAB$29.A.2A.AB2.BA.A
25.5B$29.A3.A2.BA.A.2A20.C2.B2A3B$30.2A2.3AB.A.A20.C.CB3A5B$28.A.A.2A
4.2A2.A21.2BA2BA4B2.2A$28.2A4.AB2A2.A.A22.B2ABA5BABAB$34.A.2B2A.A.2A
21.B2A2B3.3AB$35.A4B.A.A.A18.5B5.2A2B$41.A2.A19.2A9.2B2A$40.2A23.A9.B
3A$62.3A11.4B$62.A13.4B$75.B2A2B$76.2A!

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iNoMed
Posts: 227
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Location: Scotland

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by iNoMed » October 17th, 2021, 5:42 am

Here's a variant of the period-144 gun with a bounding box of 1,178 cells (38x31), barely larger than the current record of 1,155 cells:

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
2o24b2o$2o24b2o$18b2o$16b2o2bo$14b3ob2o15b2o$14bobo18bo$33bobo$33b2o2$
10b3o2b3o2$29bo$28b3o$11bobo13bo2b2o$8b2ob3o17bo$7bo2b2o18b3o$8b2o21b
2o$2o$2o3$25b2obo$20b2o3b4o$20bo2bo3$20bob2o$15b2o2bobo$15bo4bo$19bo$
16bo2bo!
Edit: This gun design has a use! Here's a period-288 gun with 1,892 cell bounding box (Down from 2,040 cells), using a CC semi-snark that cannot be used with the 1,155-cell P144 gun:

Code: Select all

x = 44, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
25b2o15b2o$25b2o15b2o3$39bo$39bo$39bo$35bo$34bo2b2o$33bo3bo$33bo2b2o$
34b2o4$15b2o$15b2o16b2o$31b2o2bo$15bo15bo3bo$14bobo13b2o2bo$14bo2bo2b
2o11bo$18bob2o7bo$16b2o11bo$12b2o15bo$12b2o2$42b2o$3b2o37b2o$3bobo22b
2o$4bo23b2o4$7b2o27b2o$7b2o27bo$2b2o33b3o$bobo35bo$bo$2o13b2o$15bo$8b
2o6b3o$8b2o8bo!
Edit 2: P432 has been reduced as well, to 1800 cells:

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 36, rule = B3/S23
2o24b2o$2o7bo16b2o$8b3o$7bo$8b2obo23b2o$9b2obo22bo$33bobo$33b2o2$10b3o
2b3o4$15bob2o$16bob2o8b2o$20bo7b2o$17b3o$2o16bo$2o35bo$35b3o$34bo$34b
2o$20b2o$20b2o21b2o$43bobo$21bo23bo$20bobo22bob2o$15b2o2bo2bo12b2o5b2o
bobo$15b2obo16b2o5b2obobo$19b2o24bob2o$26b2o14b4o2bo$25bobo14bo3b2o$
25bo18b2o$24b2o19bo$43bo$43b2o!
Edit 3: P576 reduced to 1,976 cells, effectively confirming this gun design's advantages when it comes to period-multiples:

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 38, rule = B3/S23
2o24b2o$2o24b2o3$21b2o12b2o$8b2o8b3obo12bo$8b2o6bo3bo12bobo$6b2o8bo16b
2o$5bo2bo8b2o$5bo16bo$9b2o8bo2bo$11bo8b2o$7bo3bo6b2o$5bob3o8b2o$5b2o
21b2o$28b2o$35b2o$2o34bo$2o32bo5b2o$34b2o5bo$41bob2o$34b2o2b2obo2bo$
20b2o12b2o3bob2o$20bobo16bo$21b3o14b2o$22b2o21b2o$20bobo22bobo$15b2o2b
obo8bobo14bo$15bobo2bo10b2o14bob2o$16b4o11bo5b2o5b2obobo$17b2o18b2o5b
2obobo$47bob2o$28b2o14b4o2bo$27bobo14bo3b2o$27bo18b2o$26b2o19bo$45bo$
45b2o!
Edit 4: Rounding off the 3-digit P144N guns, here's a minor reduction to P864 from 2,430 cells to 2,352 cells:

Code: Select all

x = 48, y = 48, rule = B3/S23
2o24b2o$2o24b2o$18b2o$16b2o2bo$14b3ob2o15b2o$14bobo18bo$33bobo$33b2o2$
10b3o2b3o2$29bo$28b3o$11bobo13bo2b2o$8b2ob3o17bo$7bo2b2o18b3o$8b2o21b
2o$2o$2o2$34b2o$25b2obo5b2o$20b2o3b4o$20bo2bo$43b2o$20bo2bo18bobo$19bo
2bo20bo$19bobo$20bo2$13bo6b2o17b2o$13b3o4b2o17b2o$16bo27b2o$15b2o27bob
o$46bo$6b2o23b2o13b2o$5bobo24bo$5bo23b3o6b2o$2b2obo23bo8b2o$3bobob2o$
3bobob2o$2b2obo7b2o$2bo2b4o3bo2bo7b2o$3b2o3bo4b2o8bobo$5b2o18bo$5bo19b
2o$7bo$6b2o!
Edit 5: Filter-based P288 design with a "1,888 cell" (Edit 6: Turns out it's actually 59x33, not 59x32... The semi-snark design still reigns supreme!) bounding box:

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
30b2o24b2o$30b2o24b2o3$21b2o12b2o$22bo12b2o11bo$22bobo12b4o6bobo$23b2o
12bobob2o7bo$36bo8bo5bo$36bo2bo8bo2bo$36bo5bo8bo$9bo3bo23bo7b2obobo$4b
o3bobobobo3bo19bobo6b4o$2bo5bobobobo5bo18bo11b2o$2o2b2obobo3bobob2o2b
2o5b2o21b2o$5bobo7bobo10b2o$5bobo7bobo$56b2o$56b2o4$36b2o$36b2o$5bobo
7bobo18b2o$5bobo7bobo18bo$2o2b2obobo3bobob2o2b2o4bo7bobo$2bo5bobobobo
5bo4b2o9bobob3o$4bo3bobobobo3bo7b2o9bob4o$9bo3bo24bo!

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4b2o3b2o3bo3b2ob2o3b2ob2o$2o2bobo3bo2bobobobobobobobobobo$obobo2bo2bob
o2bobo2bo2bobo3bobo$2bobo3bobobobo2bo5bobo3bobob2o$b2ob2o3b2ob2o3b2o3b
2ob2o3b2ob2o!

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wwei47
Posts: 1055
Joined: February 18th, 2021, 11:18 am

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by wwei47 » October 17th, 2021, 6:08 pm

Here's a statorless gun:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
3bo2bo$7bo$8b2o$2bob2o6bo$2bo2bo3bo$bo3bob3o$o11bo$3b3obo3bo$3bo3bo2b
o$o6b2obo$3b2o$5bo$6bo2bo$12bo$10b4o$9bob5o$8b2o6bo9b2o$9b3obo3bo7bob
o$2b2o6b2o2bobo10bo$2b2o3$5b2o$4bo2bo21b2o$6b2o18bo$25bobo2b2o$9bo13b
obob3o2bo$8b3o12bo2b6o$8bo2bo14b2ob2o$10b2o13b6o2bo$24bo2b3obobo$25b2o
2bobo$30bo$26b2o$11b2o$11bo2bo$12b3o$13bo2$15b2o$15bo2bo$16b2o3$2b2o15b
2o$2b2o15b2o!
EDIT: With that other mechanism instead:

Code: Select all

x = 80, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
46b2o$45bo2bo$46b2o27$35bo2bobo8b2o$33b2obob3o$34bo6bo7bo3bo$33b2o5bo
7bo$49b2ob2o$34bo5b2o7b2o$33bo6bo$34b3obob2o$34bobo2bo$52bo$50bo3bo$55b
o$48bo5bo$47b2o3b2o$46b3obobo$50b2o$45b2o2bobo$44bob2ob2o$43bo5bo$44b
o$44bo3bo29b2o$2o44bobo29b2o$2o33b2o$19bo15b2o$4b2o11b2obo$3b2o15bo$2b
o4b3o6bo$3bobobo68bo$5b2o3bo9bo14b2o38bobo$7bo2bo6bo2bo13bo2bo37bobo$
10bo6bo18b2o38bo$7bo2bo6bo2bo$7bo9bo3b2o16bo31b2o$20bobobo13b3o27b2ob
3o$11bo6b3o4bo12bo2bo25b3ob2o$7bo15b2o15b2o26b2o$7bob2o11b2o$8bo55bo$
2o24b2o35bobo$2o24b2o35bobo$41b2o21bo$41bo2bo$42b3o28bo$43bo28bobo$72b
obo$45b2o$45bo2bo12b2o15b2o$46b2o13b2o15b2o3$32b2o15b2o$32b2o15b2o!
Self-proclaimed synthesis "expert"

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iNoMed
Posts: 227
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 3:05 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by iNoMed » October 18th, 2021, 4:59 am

I've done it again - Here's the new smallest P144 gun with a bounding box of 1,116 cells (36x31):

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o$18b2o14bo$16b2o2bo11b3o$14b3ob2o11bo$14bobo14b2o4$10b3o2b3o2$29b
o$28b3o$11bobo13bo2b2o$8b2ob3o17bo$7bo2b2o18b3o$8b2o21b2o$2o$2o3$25b2o
bo$20b2o3b4o$20bo2bo3$20bob2o$15b2o2bobo$15bo4bo$19bo$16bo2bo!

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
4b2o3b2o3bo3b2ob2o3b2ob2o$2o2bobo3bo2bobobobobobobobobobo$obobo2bo2bob
o2bobo2bo2bobo3bobo$2bobo3bobobobo2bo5bobo3bobob2o$b2ob2o3b2ob2o3b2o3b
2ob2o3b2ob2o!

Sokwe
Moderator
Posts: 2037
Joined: July 9th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by Sokwe » October 18th, 2021, 5:21 am

I managed to reduce the original form of the p32 gun enough to be just slightly smaller than hotdogPi's newer symmetric gun:

Code: Select all

x = 53, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
14b2o18b2o$14bobo8b2o$10bobobobo8bobo5bo3bo$6b2obob2obob2ob2ob2obobo4b
o4bo$4bo2bobo3bobo4bobobobo4bobobo$bo2b2obob2obo2bob2obo3bo5bobobo9bo
2bo3b2o$b3o3bobobo3bobob3o2b2o2bo4bo8b8o2bo$4b4ob2ob2o3bo5bobo2bo3bo8b
o8b2o$b2obo5bo3bo2b2o2b2o17bo2bob2obo$obob4o2bobo3b2o3b2o2bo4b2o9b3ob
2o3b2o$o3bo3bobo7bo2bo3bo12b4o4bobobo$b3obobobo2b2o3bobo5bo12b2o5bob2o
bo$3bobobo4b2obo3b3o2b2o14bo3bobobob2o$4b2obobo10bobob2o13b2obo2bo2bo
2bo$7bobobo5b2o3bobo5b3o4bo2b5o3b2o$7bobob2ob6obob3o4b3o6bo$6b2obo9bo
3b2o6bo5bo2b5o3b2o$10b6obobo19b2obo2bo2bo2bo$12bo2bob2o21bo3bobobob2o$
21b2o15b2o5bob2obo$21b2o15b4o4bobobo$41b3ob2o3b2o$13b3o20bo3bo2bob2obo
$13bob2o17bobo4bo8b2o$13b2o2bo9b3o5b2o5b8o2bo$9bo3b6o8b3o14bo2bo3b2o$
8bobo2b2o2bo8bo3bo$9b2o3b3o10b3o3bo$27b3o3b3o$9b2o3b3o19bo$8bobo2b2o2b
o17b2o7bo$9bo3b6o11b2o2bo2b2o3bobo$13b2o2bo12bo4bobo5b2o$13bob2o6b2o2b
o5b3o2bo$13b3o7bo2bobo7bobo$24bo6b3o2bob2o$21b3o3b3obobo2bobo$20bo5bo
2bobo2b2o2bo$20b2o6b2obo3bobo14bo$17b2obo5bo2bobobobob2o11bobo$17b2obo
3b2ob3obob2o16b2o$20bobobobo3bo$17b2ob5obo2bo$17bobo5bo3b2o$20b5o$22bo
!
The bottom sparker could potentially by made shorter. It certainly can if Rich's p16 is replaced with a figure eight as in this p32 oscillator:

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
b3o$o9b2o$o3bo5b2o$o2bobo$2bobo2bo$3bo3bo$7bo8b3o$4b3o9b3o$15bo3bo$16b
3o3bo$16b3o3b3o$4bo2bo17bo$4b6o14bobo$10bo8b2o2bobo$6b4obo7bo2bobo$2b
2obo5bo4bo6bo$o2bobo3bob3ob2o$2o3bo6b2ob2o3b2o$4bo4b2obo5bob2o$3bo3b2o
bo2b2o2b2o2b2o$3bob2o3bo6bo2bo2bo$2b2o4bobob6ob5o$4b4obobo5bo$4bo2bobo
2b4obob3o$8b2o4bob2obo2bo$20b2o!
Unfortunately, the figure eight conflicts with the oscillator in the upper left corner.

Regarding hotdogPi's symmetric p32 gun, I managed to make a monomer form with an enormous proof-of-concept p4:

Code: Select all

x = 69, y = 56, rule = B3/S23
49b2o3b2o$48bobo3b2o$46b4o$39b2o3bob3o16b2o$39b2o3b2ob2o16bo$44b2o3bo
3b3o6b2obobo$53b2o8bobo2bo$46b3o2bo3b2o6bo4bo$39b2o10bo2b3o7b3o$39bobo
2bo6bo2b4o$40b4o2bo6bo2bobo3b4obo$20b2o2b2o3b2ob2ob2o4b3o2bo10b2o3bo2b
obo$4b2o14bo3bo3bobobo3bo4b2o3bo2b3o15bo$3bobo16bobo3bobo2b3o7b2o21b2o
$3bo14b5obob2obobobo8b3o3bo3b2o12bo$2obo5b2o2bo3bobo3bobobobob2o16b2ob
2o3b2o4bo2b2o$2obo2bob3o6b2o2b2o2bobob2o18b3obo3b2o3bobob2o$3bobo6bobo
bobo2bo5b3o2bobo13b4o10b2o$3bo2bob2ob2obo2b3ob4ob2o2bo2bo8b2o3bobo13b
2o$4bobobo3bobo7bo3b3o2bobob3o4b2o3b2o14b2o$5bo3b2obo2b4o2b2o3bobo4bo
5bo23bo$11bobobo2bo3bo3b2ob2o6bo2bo20b2o$11bobo6b3o4bo4bo2b2o2b2o$10b
2o2b3obobo2b2o2bo3bobob5obo20bo$11bobobo3bobob3o4b2o4bo4b2o10bo5bo2bo$
11bob4o3bo5bo2bobo5bo2bo3bo2b3o3bo5bobo$12b2obobo3b5o2bo7b2obo2b2o6b3o
bo$23bo2b2o8bo5b2o7bobo$16bobo6bo6b2o3b2o3bo4bo10b2o$18bo5b2o6bo2bobob
o3b3o3bo8bobo$19b2o13b2o7b2o8bo6bo$15bo3b2o14bo2b2o11bobo6b2o$14bobob
2o15bobobob2o2bo6b2o$14bobobo17b2obo4b2o$15bo22b2ob4o$16b4o14b3o5bo$
34bo2b2ob2o3b2o2b2o$16b3o17bo2b2ob4obo2bo$15bo21bo9b2obob2o7bo$15bo3bo
18b3o2bo3bo2bobo6bobo$16b2obo14bo5bo2bo5bo2bo7b2o$18bo14bobo4bobo7b2o$
18bobo11bobo2b2obob2ob5o$19b2o11bobob2o2b3o6bo$33bobo3bo3bo3bobob2o$
35bob2ob2o5bobo2bo$34bobobobo2b2obo2b2o$34bo2bo2b2o2b3obo$33b2ob2o2bob
o5bo$32bo2b2ob2o8b2o$32b2o8bo$34b2o2b3ob3o$34bo2bo2b2o3bo$32bobo3b2o2b
2obo$32b2o6bo2b2o$40b2o!
It's quite a bit larger than the symmetric form. There might be a p4 that makes it smaller than the existing p32 guns, but based on the difficulty I had finding the above solution, I'm not confident.

Edit: I found a p4 sparker that works with Rich's p16 and is shorter than even the version with the figure eight:

Code: Select all

x = 53, y = 43, rule = B3/S23
14b2o18b2o$14bobo8b2o$10bobobobo8bobo5bo3bo$6b2obob2obob2ob2ob2obobo4b
o4bo$4bo2bobo3bobo4bobobobo4bobobo$bo2b2obob2obo2bob2obo3bo5bobobo9bo
2bo3b2o$b3o3bobobo3bobob3o2b2o2bo4bo8b8o2bo$4b4ob2ob2o3bo5bobo2bo3bo8b
o8b2o$b2obo5bo3bo2b2o2b2o17bo2bob2obo$obob4o2bobo3b2o3b2o2bo4b2o9b3ob
2o3b2o$o3bo3bobo7bo2bo3bo12b4o4bobobo$b3obobobo2b2o3bobo5bo12b2o5bob2o
bo$3bobobo4b2obo3b3o2b2o14bo3bobobob2o$4b2obobo10bobob2o13b2obo2bo2bo
2bo$7bobobo5b2o3bobo5b3o4bo2b5o3b2o$7bobob2ob6obob3o4b3o6bo$6b2obo9bo
3b2o6bo5bo2b5o3b2o$10b6obobo19b2obo2bo2bo2bo$12bo2bob2o21bo3bobobob2o$
21b2o15b2o5bob2obo$21b2o15b4o4bobobo$41b3ob2o3b2o$13b3o20bo3bo2bob2obo
$13bob2o17bobo4bo8b2o$13b2o2bo9b3o5b2o5b8o2bo$9bo3b6o8b3o14bo2bo3b2o$
8bobo2b2o2bo8bo3bo$9b2o3b3o10b3o3bo$27b3o3b3o$9b2o3b3o19bo$8bobo2b2o2b
o17b2o7bo$9bo3b6o11b2o2bo2b2o3bobo$13b2o2bo6bobo3bo4bobobo3b2o$13bob2o
9bo6b3o2bobo$13b3o6b2o4bo7bobobo$21bo4bo4b3o2bo2bo$20bob8obobo2bo$20bo
8bobo2b2o$18b2ob11o20bo$17bo2bo4bo2bo21bobo$17b2o2bo4bo24b2o$22bobobo$
24bo!
-Matthias Merzenich

erictom333
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by erictom333 » October 18th, 2021, 6:34 pm

Am I the only one who thinks guns should be optimised in terms of population, not bounding box?

Book
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by Book » October 18th, 2021, 6:46 pm

Bounding box and population are both worth pursuing. There is no single optimum gun for a period. Several may be of interest for different reasons.

Sphenocorona
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by Sphenocorona » October 18th, 2021, 7:24 pm

erictom333 wrote:
October 18th, 2021, 6:34 pm
Am I the only one who thinks guns should be optimised in terms of population, not bounding box?
I believe part of the reason behind the focus on bounding box is because beyond a certain point, most minimal population guns for a given period will just look like a glider reflector and glider duplicator spaced arbitrarily far apart, in an adjustable trombone-slide sort of fashion, with a single glider bouncing between them. You just have to find the minimum population combinations of reflector + duplicator for all the possible period offsets mod 8, and those 8 families of guns will be the smallest population guns possible for almost all periods.

With bounding box optimization, there is no simple shortcut that works for all possible periods, as once you extend the trombone slide far enough, there's another way to use that space more effectively. Both population and bounding box are useful qualities to minimize for guns, but the case for optimizing bounding box provides far more opportunities for improvements. Basically, population optimization only has 8 cases (plus a finite number of exceptions) to try and optimize, but there are vastly more options in the realm of bounding box optimization and so you're going to see improvements there more often.

erictom333
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by erictom333 » Yesterday, 10:30 pm

Sphenocorona wrote:
October 18th, 2021, 7:24 pm
erictom333 wrote:
October 18th, 2021, 6:34 pm
Am I the only one who thinks guns should be optimised in terms of population, not bounding box?
I believe part of the reason behind the focus on bounding box is because beyond a certain point, most minimal population guns for a given period will just look like a glider reflector and glider duplicator spaced arbitrarily far apart, in an adjustable trombone-slide sort of fashion, with a single glider bouncing between them. You just have to find the minimum population combinations of reflector + duplicator for all the possible period offsets mod 8, and those 8 families of guns will be the smallest population guns possible for almost all periods.

With bounding box optimization, there is no simple shortcut that works for all possible periods, as once you extend the trombone slide far enough, there's another way to use that space more effectively. Both population and bounding box are useful qualities to minimize for guns, but the case for optimizing bounding box provides far more opportunities for improvements. Basically, population optimization only has 8 cases (plus a finite number of exceptions) to try and optimize, but there are vastly more options in the realm of bounding box optimization and so you're going to see improvements there more often.
Thing is, I'm most interested in low period guns, up to p200 or so (plus the few in the 200s with mostly active regions). For these, it would be either suboptimal or impossible to use a trombone slide design.

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yujh
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by yujh » Today, 8:18 am

erictom333 wrote:
Yesterday, 10:30 pm
Thing is, I'm most interested in low period guns, up to p200 or so (plus the few in the 200s with mostly active regions). For these, it would be either suboptimal or impossible to use a trombone slide design.
1. Why does everyone need to focus on low period guns?
2. Glider loops. Nowadays glider duplicators work at low periods like 74, 75 and 78+ (including 78) and snark is fairly low in population. It is much lower in population than a dense p3 or p4 sparker.
3. If you get a small gun like ggg, you can use oscillators or semi snarks or semi cenarks to duplicate the period, which won’t add much to the population, but the latter two is much bigger in bb while oscillators cannot filter a glider stream if the period isn’t correct. (So you might see a p16 doing that job but I haven’t seen a a p32 doing so(probably because of the spark but anyways))
4. People are just used to do so. Very important.
5. You are not the only person, but there might not be a lot of us that think gun pop is more important than bb
Nothing to apgsearch? Try b38s23/C1!

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!

b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8

B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8

B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Rule modifier

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

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wwei47
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by wwei47 » Today, 8:28 am

yujh wrote:
Today, 8:18 am
erictom333 wrote:
Yesterday, 10:30 pm
Thing is, I'm most interested in low period guns, up to p200 or so (plus the few in the 200s with mostly active regions). For these, it would be either suboptimal or impossible to use a trombone slide design.
1. Why does everyone need to focus on low period guns?
Why does no one need to focus on low period guns?
Self-proclaimed synthesis "expert"

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ihatecorderships
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Location: Falls Church, VA

Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by ihatecorderships » Today, 9:06 am

wwei47 wrote:
Today, 8:28 am
Why does no one need to focus on low period guns?
I agree. It feels like there is too little interest in lower period guns. Personally, I consider guns that consist of a lower-period engine and a filter/semi-snark "trivial."

Jormungant
Posts: 372
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Re: Gun Discussion Thread

Post by Jormungant » Today, 9:58 am

Well, nothing prevents anyone from considering an alternate characterization of a "True period" gun that is more restrictive, where no cell is allowed to have a sequence of states that is a sub-period of the gun period. That being said, period=1 is a sub period that might be useful (I think I heard that from someone, somewhere), and many interesting oscillator require low period sparks to survive too, so I guess one should still want to allow periods below 11 or something (largest prime factor of N?).

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