Thread for your unsure discoveries

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » May 7th, 2021, 8:55 am

EvinZL wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 4:25 pm
I got a different glider working on it before
Do we have any conduits that make it? I saw a clean output once, but I didn't bother saving it because it wasn't a recognized bottleneck.
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

Jormungant
Posts: 342
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Jormungant » May 7th, 2021, 5:36 pm

Not sure if someone did work this out in a better way, but I was wondering if there is a mwss turner (made with NE gliders and east ward xHSS only). I worked out the following, but I am not sure if something else without bait exists:

Code: Select all

x = 83, y = 71, rule = LifeHistory
13$44.3B$14.34B3.2B2.2B$14.4A39B$13.A3BA39B$15.2BA29B2D8B5.2C$15.BA
30B2D8B5.2C$43.14B$45.7B.B$44.4B$43.4B$42.4B$41.4B$40.4B$39.4B32.2D$
38.4B33.2D$37.4B$36.4B$35.4B$34.4B$33.2A2B$33.B2A$33.AB31$41.2C$40.C.
C$42.C!

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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by dvgrn » May 7th, 2021, 6:21 pm

Jormungant wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 5:36 pm
Not sure if someone did work this out in a better way, but I was wondering if there is a mwss turner (made with NE gliders and east ward [xWSS] only). I worked out the following, but I am not sure if something else without bait exists...
There's certainly _something_ without a bait -- e.g., we could patch something together out of known 0-degree single-channel recipes for MWSSes, starting from an MWSS hitting an initial glider to produce a target block.

That might be too many gliders or too slow to be useful here, but then again maybe it could be boiled down to something useful -- I don't remember what the minimum number of slow gliders is to get an MWSS out, but it's not a really embarrassingly large number.

Jormungant
Posts: 342
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Jormungant » May 7th, 2021, 6:41 pm

Maybe I forgot to put some context (my bad), I noticed there is good inserters in the caterpillar thread, but I fear I build some mwss flotilla on the harder to reach side. So I was hoping to get something that would fit the following, but it might be impossible :/

Code: Select all

x = 283, y = 350, rule = LifeHistory
19$64.3A73.2A50.2A.A15.A2.A$64.A.2A124.3A16.A$47.A17.3A124.3A16.A13.A
$46.3A16.3A68.A56.2A17.A.A9.3A$45.2A.A16.2A68.3A85.2A.A$45.3A86.2A.A
24.3A58.3A$46.2A86.3A24.A2.A59.2A$88.A45.3A27.A11.A$63.3A21.3A45.2A
27.A10.3A56.3A$63.A2.A19.2A.A71.A.A10.2A.A56.A$34.A28.A22.3A85.3A57.A
$33.3A12.A14.A22.3A86.2A57.A$32.2A.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A139.A$32.3A11.
2A.A44.3A$33.2A11.3A45.A.2A$46.3A46.3A$47.2A6.A39.2A$54.3A$54.A.2A$
55.3A35.A$55.2A35.3A$92.A.2A$93.3A$53.A39.3A15.3A$52.3A38.2A16.A2.A$
52.A.2A55.A$53.3A55.A$53.3A20.A35.A.A$53.2A20.3A13.3A$74.2A.A13.A2.A$
74.3A14.A$36.A37.3A14.A57.A$35.3A13.3A21.2A6.A8.A.A53.3A$34.2A.A13.A
2.A27.3A62.2A.A$34.3A14.A30.A.2A61.3A$34.3A14.A31.3A41.3A17.3A$35.2A
15.A.A28.2A42.A2.A17.2A6.A$127.A27.3A$127.A27.A.2A51.A$81.A46.A.A25.
3A50.3A15.3A$80.3A73.2A50.2A.A15.A2.A$80.A.2A124.3A16.A$63.A17.3A124.
3A16.A$62.3A16.3A68.A56.2A17.A.A$61.2A.A16.2A68.3A$61.3A86.2A.A24.3A$
62.2A86.3A24.A2.A$104.A45.3A27.A11.A$79.3A21.3A45.2A27.A10.3A$79.A2.A
19.2A.A71.A.A10.2A.A$50.A28.A22.3A85.3A$49.3A12.A14.A22.3A86.2A$48.2A
.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A$48.3A11.2A.A44.3A$49.2A11.3A45.A.2A$62.3A46.3A$
63.2A6.A39.2A$70.3A$70.A.2A$71.3A35.A$71.2A35.3A$108.A.2A$109.3A$69.A
39.3A15.3A$68.3A38.2A16.A2.A$68.A.2A55.A$69.3A55.A$69.3A20.A35.A.A$
35.B.2B30.2A20.3A13.3A$38.B51.2A.A13.A2.A$22.6B4.4A54.3A14.A$22.4A2B
3.AB2.A16.A37.3A14.A57.A$21.A3BA2B4.B2.A15.3A13.3A21.2A6.A8.A.A53.3A$
23.2BA2B4.B.A15.2A.A13.A2.CD26.3A62.2A.A$23.BA4B7.3B11.3A14.A2.2D26.A
.2A61.3A$50.3A14.A31.3A41.3A17.3A$51.2A15.A.A28.2A42.A2.A17.2A6.A$
143.A27.3A$143.A27.A.2A51.A$97.A46.A.A25.3A50.3A$96.3A73.2A50.2A.A$
96.A.2A124.3A$79.A17.3A124.3A$78.3A16.3A68.A56.2A$77.2A.A16.2A68.3A$
38.3B3.4B7.B21.3A86.2A.A24.3A$38.2B3.4B31.2A86.3A24.A2.A$38.B3.4B74.A
45.3A27.A11.A$41.2A2B50.3A21.3A45.2A27.A10.3A$41.B2A9.2A40.A2.A19.2A.
A71.A.A10.2A.A$41.AB9.A.A11.A28.A22.3A85.3A$54.A10.3A12.A14.A22.3A86.
2A$64.2A.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A$64.3A11.2A.A44.3A$65.2A11.3A45.A.2A$78.
3A46.3A$79.2A6.A39.2A$86.3A$86.A.2A$87.3A35.A$87.2A35.3A$124.A.2A$
125.3A$85.A39.3A15.3A$84.3A38.2A16.A2.A$84.A.2A55.A$85.3A55.A$85.3A
20.A35.A.A$85.2A20.3A13.3A$106.2A.A13.A2.A$106.3A14.A$106.3A14.A57.A$
83.3A21.2A6.A8.A.A53.3A$83.A2.A27.3A62.2A.A$83.A30.A.2A61.3A$83.A31.
3A41.3A17.3A$84.A.A28.2A42.A2.A17.2A6.A$159.A27.3A$159.A27.A.2A$113.A
46.A.A25.3A$112.3A73.2A$49.2C61.A.2A$48.C.C44.A17.3A$50.C43.3A16.3A
68.A$93.2A.A16.2A68.3A$93.3A86.2A.A24.3A$94.2A86.3A24.A2.A$136.A45.3A
27.A11.A$111.3A21.3A45.2A27.A10.3A$111.A2.A19.2A.A71.A.A10.2A.A$79.3B
DB27.A22.3A85.3A$79.2B3D12.A14.A22.3A86.2A$79.B2DBD11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.
A$79.B3DB10.2A.A44.3A$79.B.2DB10.3A45.A.2A$94.3A46.3A$95.2A6.A39.2A$
102.3A$102.A.2A$103.3A35.A$103.2A35.3A$140.A.2A$141.3A$101.A39.3A15.
3A$100.3A38.2A16.A2.A$100.A.2A55.A$101.3A55.A$101.3A20.A35.A.A$101.2A
20.3A13.3A$122.2A.A13.A2.A$122.3A14.A$71.B5.7BD2B35.3A14.A57.A$71.2B
4.6B3DB12.3A21.2A6.A8.A.A53.3A$71.B5.5B2DBDB12.A2.A27.3A62.2A.A$71.2B
4.5B3D2B12.A30.A.2A61.3A$71.B5.5B3D3B11.A31.3A41.3A17.3A$71.2B4.6B2D
2B13.A.A28.2A42.A2.A17.2A6.A$71.B5.10B88.A27.3A$71.B5.10B88.A27.A.2A$
77.10B42.A46.A.A25.3A$71.B5.10B41.3A73.2A$77.10B41.A.2A$77.10B24.A17.
3A$77.10B23.3A16.3A68.A$77.10B22.2A.A16.2A68.3A$77.10B22.3A86.2A.A24.
3A$77.10B23.2A86.3A24.A2.A$77.10B65.A45.3A27.A$77.10B40.3A21.3A45.2A
27.A$77.10B40.A2.A19.2A.A71.A.A$77.10B11.A28.A22.3A$77.10B10.3A12.A
14.A22.3A$77.10B9.2A.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A$77.10B9.3A11.2A.A44.3A$77.
10B10.2A11.3A45.A.2A$77.10B23.3A46.3A$77.10B24.2A6.A39.2A$78.9B31.3A$
77.10B31.A.2A$78.9B32.3A35.A$77.10B32.2A35.3A$78.9B69.A.2A$77.10B70.
3A$78.9B30.A39.3A15.3A$77.10B29.3A38.2A16.A2.A$78.9B29.A.2A55.A$78.9B
30.3A55.A$80.7B30.3A20.A35.A.A$80.7B30.2A20.3A13.3A$80.7B51.2A.A13.A
2.A$80.7B51.3A14.A$80.7B13.A37.3A14.A57.A$80.7B12.3A13.3A21.2A6.A8.A.
A53.3A$80.7B11.2A.A13.A2.A27.3A62.2A.A$80.7B11.3A14.A30.A.2A61.3A$80.
7B11.3A14.A31.3A41.3A17.3A$80.7B12.2A15.A.A28.2A42.A2.A17.2A6.A$80.7B
104.A27.3A$80.7B104.A27.A.2A$80.7B58.A46.A.A25.3A$80.7B57.3A73.2A$80.
7B57.A.2A$80.7B40.A17.3A$80.7B39.3A16.3A68.A$80.7B38.2A.A16.2A68.3A$
80.7B38.3A86.2A.A$80.7B39.2A86.3A$80.7B81.A45.3A$80.7B56.3A21.3A45.2A
$80.7B56.A2.A19.2A.A$80.7B27.A28.A22.3A$80.7B26.3A12.A14.A22.3A$80.7B
25.2A.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A$80.7B25.3A11.2A.A44.3A$80.7B26.2A11.3A45.A
.2A$80.7B39.3A46.3A$80.7B40.2A6.A39.2A$80.7B47.3A$80.7B47.A.2A$80.7B
48.3A35.A$80.7B48.2A35.3A$80.7B85.A.2A$80.7B86.3A$80.7B46.A39.3A15.3A
$80.7B45.3A38.2A16.A2.A$82.5B45.A.2A55.A$81.6B46.3A55.A$133.3A20.A35.
A.A$133.2A20.3A13.3A$154.2A.A13.A2.A$154.3A14.A$116.A37.3A14.A57.A$
115.3A13.3A21.2A6.A8.A.A53.3A$114.2A.A13.A2.A27.3A62.2A.A$114.3A14.A
30.A.2A61.3A$114.3A14.A31.3A41.3A17.3A$115.2A15.A.A28.2A42.A2.A17.2A
6.A$207.A27.2A$207.A27.A$161.A46.A.A25.A$160.3A73.A$160.A.2A$143.A17.
3A$142.3A16.3A68.A$141.2A.A16.2A68.3A$141.3A86.2A.A$142.2A86.3A$184.A
45.3A$159.3A21.3A45.2A$159.A2.A19.2A.A$130.A28.A22.3A$129.3A12.A14.A
22.3A$128.2A.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A$128.3A11.2A.A44.3A$129.2A11.3A45.A.
2A$142.3A46.3A$143.2A6.A39.2A$150.3A$150.A.2A$151.3A35.A$151.2A35.3A$
188.A.2A$189.3A$149.A39.3A15.3A$148.3A38.2A16.A2.A$148.A.2A55.A$149.
3A55.A$149.3A20.A35.A.A$149.2A20.3A13.3A$170.2A.A13.A2.A$170.3A14.A$
132.A37.3A14.A$131.3A13.3A21.2A6.A8.A.A$130.2A.A13.A2.A27.3A$130.3A
14.A30.A.2A$130.3A14.A31.3A41.3A$131.2A15.A.A28.2A42.A2.A$223.A$223.A
$177.A46.A.A$176.3A$176.A.2A$159.A17.3A$158.3A16.3A$157.2A.A16.2A$
157.3A$158.2A$200.A$175.3A21.3A$175.A2.A19.2A.A$146.A28.A22.3A$145.3A
12.A14.A22.3A$144.2A.A11.3A14.A.A20.2A6.A$144.3A11.2A.A44.3A$145.2A
11.3A45.A.2A$158.3A46.3A$159.2A6.A39.2A$166.3A$166.A.2A$167.3A35.A$
167.2A35.3A$204.A.2A$205.3A$165.A39.3A15.3A$164.3A38.2A16.A2.A$164.A.
2A55.A$165.3A55.A$165.3A20.A35.A.A!
I am not builging the right mwss at the momment, I guess I could pick a period of 992 instead of 496 to get this to work with more space, since I did pack these xHSS a lot, there is probably means to space them, but many xWSS do work in pairs, and the timing is tricky (so I do not want to revisit it if possible ^^')

addendum: Clean version:

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
$11.4A$.4A5.A3.A$A3.A9.A$4.A8.A$3.A14$20.2A$21.2A9.2A$20.A10.A.A$33.A
10$6.A$6.2A$5.A.A13$9.A$9.2A$8.A.A3$28.2A$27.A.A$29.A!

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 11th, 2021, 1:10 pm

transparent beehive:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
9bo$8bobo$8bobo$9bo8$b3o$b3o$obo$2o!
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

Jormungant
Posts: 342
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Jormungant » May 11th, 2021, 4:22 pm

some more glider xWSS forward collisions, which work but not really for what I want :/

Code: Select all

x = 289, y = 96, rule = LifeHistory
24$181.6B$181.5B$181.B2A3B$181.ABA2B$181.2BA3B$181.5B$181.6B$181.5B$
181.6B$14.4B8.6B.7B141.5B$13.4B10.13B141.6B$12.C3B10.14B$11.B2CB12.
13B$11.CBC12.14B$27.13B53.4B6.8B3.5B133.4B9.6B$26.14B52.4B7.9B2.5B
132.3AB11.6B$27.13B51.A3B8.8B3.5B132.2BA11.6B$26.14B50.B2AB9.9B2.5B
133.A13.6B$25.3B3A9B49.BABA10.8B3.5B146.6B$25.2BA2BA9B48.4B11.9B2.5B
147.6B$25.5BA9B47.4B12.8B3.5B146.6B$25.5BA9B63.9B2.5B144.2B2D5B$25.5B
A9B63.9B2.5B143.3B2D4B$25.4BA7BC2B63.4B3A2B2.5B142.4B.6B$25.11B3CB63.
3BA2BA2B2.5B141.11B$25.4B.5B2CBCB63.6BA2B2.5B142.2B2.7B$29.6B3C2B63.
6BAB3.5B142.B3.6B$30.6B2C65.6BAB3.5B146.7B$29.9B65.5BAB4.5B82.B63.6B$
25.13B65.5B6.5B82.B63.7B$25.13B65.5B6.B3AB82.2B62.6B$25.13B65.5B6.BA
2BA82.B3.3A57.7B$25.13B65.5B6.BA3B82.2B2.A2BA56.7B$25.B4.8B65.5B6.BAB
84.B2.BA3B56.2B3A2B$25.B3.6BC2B65.5B8.A.A82.2B.BA3BA55.BA2BA2B$25.B4.
4B3CB65.5B93.B.2BA3B57.3BA2B$25.B3.4B2CBCB65.5B93.2B.2BABAB56.3BAB$
30.3B3C2B65.5B93.B.6B59.BAB$29.5B2C67.5B93.2B.6B58.AB$30.6B67.5B93.B.
6B54.B$29.6B6.B61.5B93.2B.6B9.3A41.4BDB$30.6B67.5B93.B.6B9.A2BA41.B3A
DB$29.6B68.B3AB93.2B.6B8.3BAB39.BA2BA2B$30.6B2.B64.BA2BA93.B.6B8.A3BA
B38.3D2BA2B$28.7B2.2B64.BA3B93.2B.6B8.3BAB39.4BA2B$27.12B64.BAB95.B.
6B8.BABA2B41.2BA2B$25.14B66.A.A.4B5.B82.2B.6B8.5B41.BA2B$25.14B162.B.
6B8.6B42.B$24.15B168.3B8.5B42.B$23.16B168.2B8.6B$23.16B168.3B8.5B$24.
15B168.2B8.BA4B$27.5BC6B168.3B7.3A3B$27.4B3C5B168.2B7.BAB2A2B$27.4BCB
2C4B168.3B6.2B3A2B42.B3ADB$26.6B3C4B168.2B6.3B3A2B41.BA2BA2B$32.3C4B
168.3B6.2B2A3B41.2D2BA2B$32.2C173.2B2.3A.8B41.4BA2B$207.3BA2BA2.7B43.
BA3B$207.2B.3BA9B42.B3.B$207.6BAB.7B$207.2B.ABA10B$207.8B.7B$207.2B.
13B$207.2B.5B.7B!

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 19th, 2021, 9:06 am

most likely known

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$3bo$3bobo$4b2o2$11b2o$11b2o$13bo$13bo$13bo2$3b2o$2bobo$2bo$b2o2$
9b2o$8bobo$8b2o2$11b2o$11bo$12b3o$14bo!
edit: one-glider seed for u-turner and long boat.

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo8bo$bo8bo$5bo4b3o$4bobo$3bo2bo$4b2o2$10bo$11b2o$9b2o$11bo!
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » May 19th, 2021, 3:39 pm

C28 wrote:
May 19th, 2021, 9:06 am
most likely known
It actually wasn't known, although now, I have added it to the Elementary Conduits Collection. Thank you.
Attachments
ECC update draft.txt
(512.52 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 20th, 2021, 10:43 am

(18,1)c/48

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 78, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o16$2b2o$bo2bo$2b2o16$3b2o$2bo2bo$3b2o16$4b2o$3bo2bo$4b2o19$
10bo$9b3o$9bo!
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

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May13
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by May13 » May 20th, 2021, 11:10 am

I have three questions about these conduits (TEARDROP-to-G and LoM-to-B):

Code: Select all

x = 44, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
35bo$o34b3o$3o35bo$3bo33b2o$2b2o3$13b2o$13bo27b3o$11bobo25b3o$11b2o$4b
3o$3bo2bo30b2o$3bo2bo31bo$4b2o29b3o$35bo!

  1. Are they known?
  2. Are they useful?
  3. Is it possible to give them systematic names (like GNE7T4 for the Snark)?

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 21st, 2021, 11:41 am

52c/140

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o24$11b2o$10bo2bo$11b2o24$b2o$o2bo$b2o24$6bo$5b3o$5bo!
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

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ihatecorderships
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by ihatecorderships » May 21st, 2021, 11:47 am

Octomino II to G

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o2$5bo$4b3o$4bob2o$7bo$9b2o$9bobo$11bo$11b2o!
Very small, so it's probably known but I don't see it in the ECC. (the ECC doesn't even have an Octomino II section.)

Edit: Octomino II to R

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 13, rule = LifeHistory
6.2D$7.2D$7.D$5.C$2A2.3C$2A2.C.2C$7.C3$12.2A$12.A.A$14.A$14.2A!
-- Kalan Warusa

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B2ek3ij4-jnqrz/S23
2b2o$3bo$ob2o$3o!

MathAndCode
Posts: 4684
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » May 21st, 2021, 5:44 pm

May13 wrote:
May 20th, 2021, 11:10 am
I have three questions about these conduits (TEARDROP-to-G and LoM-to-B):
  1. Are they known?
  2. Are they useful?
  3. Is it possible to give them systematic names (like GNE7T4 for the Snark)?
I remember finding the LoM-to-B several months ago, but I didn't include it in the Elementary Conduits Collection because it didn't look connectable. It's still possible to systematically name it, though, in which case its name would be SS23B. The teardrop-to-glider conduit doesn't look familiar, but teardrops aren't used in conduits.
ihatecorderships wrote:
May 21st, 2021, 11:47 am
Octomino II to G

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o2$5bo$4b3o$4bob2o$7bo$9b2o$9bobo$11bo$11b2o!
Very small, so it's probably known but I don't see it in the ECC. (the ECC doesn't even have an Octomino II section.)
I haven't seen that before, but I'm not going to put it in the Elementary Conduits Collection for two reasons. First, it looks unconnectable. Specifically, it does not look practical to get the input region in without it interacting with the bottom-right fishhook prematurely. In my opinion, the most practical way seems to be having a parent of the B-heptomino or B-heptalet interact with the bottom-right fishhook (or an eater 2, which can replace it), in a recovering state.

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
o20bo$3o18b3o$3bo20bo$2b2o19b2o3$4b3o18b3o$3bo2bo17bo2bo$6bo17bo2bo$8b
obo18bo3bo$9bobo18b6o$11bo19bo4bo$11b2o17b2ob3o$31bobo$31bobo$32bo!
However, even that is very impractical, and if it occurred, I would consider it to be one single conduit, not a separate X-to-Octomino II conduit and an Octomino II-to-glider conduit. The other reason, which also applies to your second conduit, is that I currently only know of one way to make that sequence, and it doesn't work with other conduits (or rather wouldn't work) because the output goes in the direction that the input would have came from.

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
6bo$6b3o$7bo4$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!


To both of you:
If you want to have the teardrop, octomino II, or any other region added to the Elementary Conduits Collection, all you have to do is prove that it's useful in conduits by finding conduits that output and input it that can connect to each other and possibly identifying it as an intermediate in conduits that were previously considered elementary. I was part of efforts to do the same thing for the E- and I-heptominos a few months back, and those became successful, so I know that it's possible. I recommend that anyone who seeks to undertake such an effort look at and conduct his/her effort in the thread for finding new bottlenecks.
I have historically worked on conduits, but recently, I've been working on glider syntheses and investigating SnakeLife.

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by GUYTU6J » May 21st, 2021, 10:29 pm

Can someone insert the remaining monogram here to complete a synthesis for the smallest carnival shuttle variant?

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
3ob3o$3bo$2o3b2o$3bo$3ob3o5b2o$11bo2bo$11bobo$12bo2$8b2o$7bobo3b2o$7b
2o3b2o$14bo!
The seed for the central region is found by octohash, which unluckily sticks out at the back.

EDIT one hour later: this 8G synthesis based on a G1 soup is not edge-shooting, but it reduces the cost of monogram by 2G:

Code: Select all

x = 85, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
10bo$8b2o$9b2o2$o64b2o3b2o$b2o63bobobo$2o64b2ob2o$25bobo38bobobo$25b2o
38b2o3b2o$18bo7bo$18bobo$18b2o4$82bobo$82b2o$83bo$11b2o$11bobo$11bo66b
3o5$15b2o$15bobo$15bo6b3o$22bo$23bo!
EDIT2: another simple monogram reaction from here

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
12bo$11bobo$11b2o$24b2o$23bo2bo$24bobo$21bo3bo$o19bobo$o19bo2bo$o20b2o
3$12bo$11b3o$10b2ob2o!
EDIT3: this edge-shooting p2 1G seed from here does not work, unfortunately.

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$bo3bobo$obo3bo$o2bo$b2o11b3o2$6b2o4bo5bo$6b2o4bo5bo$12bo5bo2$14b
3o9$8b2o$7bo2bo$8b2o7b2o$17bobo$17bo!
EDIT4: If the dot were not there... Even the crossing gliders is not an issue as big. (Seed from here)

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
18bo$16b2o$17b2o3$7b2o11bobo$7bobo11b2o$8b2o11bo2$12bo$11bobo$11bo2bo
15bo$3ob3o5b2o15bobo$3bo25bobo$2o3b2o23bo$3bo33bo$3ob3o29bobo$32bo4bo$
31bobo$31bobo$32bo$20b3o2$25bo$24b2o13bo$24bobo11b2o$38bobo$19bo$18bob
o$19bo!
#C [[ PASTET 54 PASTEMODE 6 PASTE o! 16 14 ]]
---

Remember Yuan Longping. Remember Wu Mengchao.
Lifequote:
In the drama The Peony Pavilion, Tang Xianzu wrote: 原来姹紫嫣红开遍,似这般都付与断井颓垣。
(Here multiflorate splendour blooms forlorn
Midst broken fountains, mouldering walls.)
I'm afraid there's arrival but no departure.
Chinese people, enjoy your 🥩🥚🥛 and 🐟!

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 24th, 2021, 8:49 am

almost a u-turner to LWSS

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 27, rule = B3/S23
9bo$7b3o$6bo$6b2o4$b3o$b3o$obo$2o$9b2o$9b2o9$9b2o$5bo3b2o$4bobo$3bobo
$3bo$2b2o!

edit: gen 100 shows something that might be of use in glider synthesises

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
10b3o$10b3o$9bobo$9b2o6$2o14b2obo$2o14b2ob3o$22bo$16b2ob3o$5b2o10bobo
$5b2o10bobo$18bo!
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 27th, 2021, 7:06 pm

might be known

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
6ob2o$6ob2o$7b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o$2o$2ob6o$2ob6o2$13bo$13bobo$13b
2o$3b2o2b2o$3b2o2b2o!
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Sokwe » May 27th, 2021, 8:28 pm

C28 wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 7:06 pm
might be known

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
6ob2o$6ob2o$7b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o$2o$2ob6o$2ob6o2$13bo$13bobo$13b
2o$3b2o2b2o$3b2o2b2o!
It's a nice rediscovery. I'm not sure who first found it, but Noam Elkies used it to create some low-period 180-degree reflectors in October and November of 2007. From jslife/misc/reflectors-180-2.lif:

Code: Select all

#C Two closely-related fast 180-degree reflection reactions,
#C shown at various periods.
#C Noam Elkies, 4 Oct 07 - 15 Nov 07.
x = 215, y = 135, rule = B3/S23
13bo3bo27bobobo29bobobo33bobobo38bo3bobobo25bobobo3bobobo2$13bo3bo27bo
37bo33bo3bo38bo3bo33bo7bo2$13bobobo27bobobo33bo33bobobo38bo3bobobo25bo
bobo3bobobo2$17bo27bo3bo33bo33bo3bo38bo7bo25bo7bo2$17bo27bobobo33bo33b
obobo38bo3bobobo25bobobo3bobobo5$43b2o5b2o$43b2o5b2o2$41b6ob6o$42bo2b
2ob2o2bo$40bo5bobo5bo$40b2o11b2o2$45b5o$46bobo$46bobo$45bobobo$45bo3bo
2$45bobobo$41b2o2b2ob2o2b2o$40bo2bob2ob2obo2bo$40bobo2b2ob2o2bobo$39b
2o2b3o3b3o2b2o$39bo2bo9bo2bo$40b2obobo3bobob2o$41bobobo3bobobo$40bo2bo
7bo2bo$41b2o9b2o$45b2ob2o$41b2obobobobob2o$39bo2b3o2bo2b3o2bo$39b2o13b
2o$45bo3bo33b2o79bo$44b2obob2o26b2o5b3o76bobo43b2o$42b2o3bo3b2o23bo2bo
2bo4bo27b2ob2obo40bo3bo25bo16bo$42b2obo3bob2o23bobo2bob4obob2o22b2o2b
2ob2o39bo3bo24b3o13bobo$41b2o2b2ob2o2b2o21b2o2b3obo4bobo31bo39bo3bo23b
3obo7b2o3b2o$41b3o2bobo2b3o22bobo3bo2bo2bobo23b2o46bo3bo22b3o2bo6b4o$
46bobo27bob2ob2o2bob2ob2ob2o19b2o5b2o39bo3bo23b4o6bo2b3o$41bobo2b3o2bo
bo20bob2o5b2o4bo4bo26b2o39bo3bo19b2o3b2o7bob3o$41bo3bo3bo3bo19bobo3bob
2o2b3obob3o20bo48bobo19bobo13b3o$43bo7bo21bo2bob2obo2bo2b2ob2o22b2ob2o
2b2o41bo20bo16bo$43bo7bo22b2o7b2o30bob2ob2o62b2o2$47bo4$41b2o2b2o36b2o
2b2o26b2o2b2o37b2o2b2o33b2o2b2o$41b2o2b2o36b2o2b2o26b2o2b2o37b2o2b2o
33b2o2b2o$51b2o40b2o30b2o41b2o37b2o$51bobo39bobo29bobo40bobo36bobo$51b
o41bo31bo42bo38bo$44bo70b2o$43bobo26b2o7b2o28b2o4b4o61b2o$43b2o2bobo
21bo2bob2obo2bo2b5o21b2o2b2ob3o41bo20bo15b3o$41b2o2bo2b2o21bobo3bob2o
2b3obob3o23bo45b3o19bobo16bo$42bobo27bob2obo3b2o4bo4bo67b2ob2o19b2o2bo
2bo6bo4bo$42bob6o24bob2ob2o2b4ob2ob2o66b3ob3o21bo3bo6bo4bo$43bo5bo24bo
bo4b2obobobo70b3ob3o21bo4bo6bo3bo$44b3o26b2ob4obo2bobobo70b3ob3o21bo4b
o6bo2bo2b2o$46bo27bobo2bob4obob2o69b3ob3o22bo16bobo$74bo2bo2bo4bo74b2o
b2o24b3o15bo$75b2o5b3o76b3o43b2o$81b2o79bo10$76b2o40b2o30b2o41b2o$76bo
bo39bobo29bobo40bobo$78bo41bo31bo42bo$78b2o40b2o30b2o41b2o5$19bo$19b3o
bo2b2o177bo$22b2o3bo177b3o$19b2o3b3o181bo$19bob2obo182b2o$23bo4b2o$22b
2o3bobo180bo$18b2ob2o4bo181b3o$17bobo2bo3b2o15b2o163b5o$18bo3bo15b2o2b
obo163b2ob3o$22bo14b3o2bo166bo2bo$22bo10b2o5b3o167b2o$23bobo6bo2bob2ob
o2b2o$10b2o2b2o9bo3bo2b2obo2bob2obo$10b2o2b2o10b5ob2o2bobobo2bo80bo$
20b2o5b2o4bobo2bo2b2o81b3obo2b2o$20bobo7bo2bobob2o88b2o3bo$20bo9bo2bob
obo86b2o3b3o76b2o$35bo3bo84bob2obo77bo2bo$34b2o2b2o88bo4b2o71b3ob2o$
11b7o109b2o3bobo72b5o$9bob3ob3obo103b2ob2o4bo75b3o$122bobo2bo3b2o15b2o
59bo$8bo3b2ob2o3bo102bo3bo15b2o2bobo$6b2obo2bo3bo2bob2o104bo14b3o2bo
63b2o$9b2obo3bob2o107bo10b2o5b3o63bo$4bobo3b2o5b2o3bobo103bobo6bo2bob
2obo2b2o62b3o$4bo3bo11bo3bo90b2o2b2o9bo3bo2b2obo2bob2obo48b2o2b2o11bo$
6bo3b2o5b2o3bo92b2o2b2o10b5ob2o2bobobo2bo48b2o2b2o$3b2obobobo7bobobob
2o99b2o5b2o4bobo2bo2b2o59b2o$bo2b2ob2o2b3ob3o2b2ob2o2bo97bobo7bo2bobob
2o63bobo$o2b2o4b2o2bobo2b2o4b2o2bo96bo9bo2bobobo64bo$o2bo4bo2bo5bo2bo
4bo2bo86b2o23bo3bo$b2ob6obobobobob6ob2o83b2o4b4o18b2o2b2o37b2o$3bobo2b
o3b2ob2o3bo2bobo85b2o2b2ob3o62bo15b3o$3bo10bo10bo89bo67bobo16bo$4b2ob
6o3b6ob2o159b2o2bo2bo6bo4bo$5b3o5b3o5b3o163bo3bo6bo4bo$2b3o3b2ob2o3b2o
b2o3b3o160bo4bo6bo3bo$bo3b2o3bo3bo3bo3b2o3bo159bo4bo6bo2bo2b2o$2b3o3bo
bob5obobo3b3o161bo16bobo$5b2o2bo9bo2b2o165b3o15bo$4bo2bobobob3obobobo
2bo182b2o$4b2o2b2ob2obob2ob2o2b2o!
Notice that there are two different types of reflectors here. On May 24, 2015, Michael Simkin found a way to improve the second type of reflector.
-Matthias Merzenich

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 28th, 2021, 7:00 am

Sokwe wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:28 pm
C28 wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 7:06 pm
might be known

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
6ob2o$6ob2o$7b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o$2o5b2o$2o$2ob6o$2ob6o2$13bo$13bobo$13b
2o$3b2o2b2o$3b2o2b2o!
It's a nice rediscovery. I'm not sure who first found it, but Noam Elkies used it to create some low-period 180-degree reflectors in October and November of 2007. From jslife/misc/reflectors-180-2.lif:

Code: Select all

#C Two closely-related fast 180-degree reflection reactions,
#C shown at various periods.
#C Noam Elkies, 4 Oct 07 - 15 Nov 07.
x = 215, y = 135, rule = B3/S23
13bo3bo27bobobo29bobobo33bobobo38bo3bobobo25bobobo3bobobo2$13bo3bo27bo
37bo33bo3bo38bo3bo33bo7bo2$13bobobo27bobobo33bo33bobobo38bo3bobobo25bo
bobo3bobobo2$17bo27bo3bo33bo33bo3bo38bo7bo25bo7bo2$17bo27bobobo33bo33b
obobo38bo3bobobo25bobobo3bobobo5$43b2o5b2o$43b2o5b2o2$41b6ob6o$42bo2b
2ob2o2bo$40bo5bobo5bo$40b2o11b2o2$45b5o$46bobo$46bobo$45bobobo$45bo3bo
2$45bobobo$41b2o2b2ob2o2b2o$40bo2bob2ob2obo2bo$40bobo2b2ob2o2bobo$39b
2o2b3o3b3o2b2o$39bo2bo9bo2bo$40b2obobo3bobob2o$41bobobo3bobobo$40bo2bo
7bo2bo$41b2o9b2o$45b2ob2o$41b2obobobobob2o$39bo2b3o2bo2b3o2bo$39b2o13b
2o$45bo3bo33b2o79bo$44b2obob2o26b2o5b3o76bobo43b2o$42b2o3bo3b2o23bo2bo
2bo4bo27b2ob2obo40bo3bo25bo16bo$42b2obo3bob2o23bobo2bob4obob2o22b2o2b
2ob2o39bo3bo24b3o13bobo$41b2o2b2ob2o2b2o21b2o2b3obo4bobo31bo39bo3bo23b
3obo7b2o3b2o$41b3o2bobo2b3o22bobo3bo2bo2bobo23b2o46bo3bo22b3o2bo6b4o$
46bobo27bob2ob2o2bob2ob2ob2o19b2o5b2o39bo3bo23b4o6bo2b3o$41bobo2b3o2bo
bo20bob2o5b2o4bo4bo26b2o39bo3bo19b2o3b2o7bob3o$41bo3bo3bo3bo19bobo3bob
2o2b3obob3o20bo48bobo19bobo13b3o$43bo7bo21bo2bob2obo2bo2b2ob2o22b2ob2o
2b2o41bo20bo16bo$43bo7bo22b2o7b2o30bob2ob2o62b2o2$47bo4$41b2o2b2o36b2o
2b2o26b2o2b2o37b2o2b2o33b2o2b2o$41b2o2b2o36b2o2b2o26b2o2b2o37b2o2b2o
33b2o2b2o$51b2o40b2o30b2o41b2o37b2o$51bobo39bobo29bobo40bobo36bobo$51b
o41bo31bo42bo38bo$44bo70b2o$43bobo26b2o7b2o28b2o4b4o61b2o$43b2o2bobo
21bo2bob2obo2bo2b5o21b2o2b2ob3o41bo20bo15b3o$41b2o2bo2b2o21bobo3bob2o
2b3obob3o23bo45b3o19bobo16bo$42bobo27bob2obo3b2o4bo4bo67b2ob2o19b2o2bo
2bo6bo4bo$42bob6o24bob2ob2o2b4ob2ob2o66b3ob3o21bo3bo6bo4bo$43bo5bo24bo
bo4b2obobobo70b3ob3o21bo4bo6bo3bo$44b3o26b2ob4obo2bobobo70b3ob3o21bo4b
o6bo2bo2b2o$46bo27bobo2bob4obob2o69b3ob3o22bo16bobo$74bo2bo2bo4bo74b2o
b2o24b3o15bo$75b2o5b3o76b3o43b2o$81b2o79bo10$76b2o40b2o30b2o41b2o$76bo
bo39bobo29bobo40bobo$78bo41bo31bo42bo$78b2o40b2o30b2o41b2o5$19bo$19b3o
bo2b2o177bo$22b2o3bo177b3o$19b2o3b3o181bo$19bob2obo182b2o$23bo4b2o$22b
2o3bobo180bo$18b2ob2o4bo181b3o$17bobo2bo3b2o15b2o163b5o$18bo3bo15b2o2b
obo163b2ob3o$22bo14b3o2bo166bo2bo$22bo10b2o5b3o167b2o$23bobo6bo2bob2ob
o2b2o$10b2o2b2o9bo3bo2b2obo2bob2obo$10b2o2b2o10b5ob2o2bobobo2bo80bo$
20b2o5b2o4bobo2bo2b2o81b3obo2b2o$20bobo7bo2bobob2o88b2o3bo$20bo9bo2bob
obo86b2o3b3o76b2o$35bo3bo84bob2obo77bo2bo$34b2o2b2o88bo4b2o71b3ob2o$
11b7o109b2o3bobo72b5o$9bob3ob3obo103b2ob2o4bo75b3o$122bobo2bo3b2o15b2o
59bo$8bo3b2ob2o3bo102bo3bo15b2o2bobo$6b2obo2bo3bo2bob2o104bo14b3o2bo
63b2o$9b2obo3bob2o107bo10b2o5b3o63bo$4bobo3b2o5b2o3bobo103bobo6bo2bob
2obo2b2o62b3o$4bo3bo11bo3bo90b2o2b2o9bo3bo2b2obo2bob2obo48b2o2b2o11bo$
6bo3b2o5b2o3bo92b2o2b2o10b5ob2o2bobobo2bo48b2o2b2o$3b2obobobo7bobobob
2o99b2o5b2o4bobo2bo2b2o59b2o$bo2b2ob2o2b3ob3o2b2ob2o2bo97bobo7bo2bobob
2o63bobo$o2b2o4b2o2bobo2b2o4b2o2bo96bo9bo2bobobo64bo$o2bo4bo2bo5bo2bo
4bo2bo86b2o23bo3bo$b2ob6obobobobob6ob2o83b2o4b4o18b2o2b2o37b2o$3bobo2b
o3b2ob2o3bo2bobo85b2o2b2ob3o62bo15b3o$3bo10bo10bo89bo67bobo16bo$4b2ob
6o3b6ob2o159b2o2bo2bo6bo4bo$5b3o5b3o5b3o163bo3bo6bo4bo$2b3o3b2ob2o3b2o
b2o3b3o160bo4bo6bo3bo$bo3b2o3bo3bo3bo3b2o3bo159bo4bo6bo2bo2b2o$2b3o3bo
bob5obobo3b3o161bo16bobo$5b2o2bo9bo2b2o165b3o15bo$4bo2bobobob3obobobo
2bo182b2o$4b2o2b2ob2obob2ob2o2b2o!
Notice that there are two different types of reflectors here. On May 24, 2015, Michael Simkin found a way to improve the second type of reflector.
huh, interesting. weird how it wasn't until 2004 that periodic 180 degree reflectors were made. oh well.
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

mniemiec
Posts: 1297
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by mniemiec » May 28th, 2021, 7:20 am

C28 wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 7:00 am
huh, interesting. weird how it wasn't until 2004 that periodic 180 degree reflectors were made. oh well.
Not all of them. It was known in the 1970s that pentadecathlons could reflect gliders 180 degrees. In 1992, Dean Hickerson found that Twin Bees could reflect a glider 180 degrees after first temporarily turning it into a block. There may have been others.

pcallahan
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by pcallahan » May 28th, 2021, 9:59 am

mniemiec wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 7:20 am
C28 wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 7:00 am
huh, interesting. weird how it wasn't until 2004 that periodic 180 degree reflectors were made. oh well.
Not all of them. It was known in the 1970s that pentadecathlons could reflect gliders 180 degrees. In 1992, Dean Hickerson found that Twin Bees could reflect a glider 180 degrees after first temporarily turning it into a block. There may have been others.
I was too young to do any of this in the 1970s, but starting in the early-to-mid 90s, one of the first things I did with any new oscillator with an exposed spark was to collide gliders to see if I could find any reflections. 180° reflectors are less versatile, but I found them routinely. I was hoping to be able to find one in the examples from gencols (1994) but I don't see any. The collisions with the p46 shuttle have some 90° glider reflections, conversions to and from LWSS and a direct 90° LWSS reflection. Did I miss a 180° reflection?

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 28th, 2021, 12:28 pm

mniemiec wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 7:20 am
C28 wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 7:00 am
huh, interesting. weird how it wasn't until 2004 that periodic 180 degree reflectors were made. oh well.
Not all of them. It was known in the 1970s that pentadecathlons could reflect gliders 180 degrees. In 1992, Dean Hickerson found that Twin Bees could reflect a glider 180 degrees after first temporarily turning it into a block. There may have been others.
speaking of which, i noticed this:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3bo$2bobo$bobo$obo$bo4bo$5bo$5b3o$2o$2o3$9bo$3b2o3bobo$3b2o4bo!
all that is needed is to find a still life that can replace the long barge.
need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by hotdogPi » May 28th, 2021, 12:41 pm

C28 wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 12:28 pm
speaking of which, i noticed this:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3bo$2bobo$bobo$obo$bo4bo$5bo$5b3o$2o$2o3$9bo$3b2o3bobo$3b2o4bo!
all that is needed is to find a still life that can replace the long barge.
This seems to last a bit longer, although it still doesn't work:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b3o2b2o$7bo$b6o$o3bo4bo$2o6bo$8b3o$3b2o$3b2o3$12bo$6b2o3bobo
$6b2o4bo!

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C28
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by C28 » May 28th, 2021, 12:42 pm

hotdogPi wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 12:41 pm
C28 wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 12:28 pm
speaking of which, i noticed this:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3bo$2bobo$bobo$obo$bo4bo$5bo$5b3o$2o$2o3$9bo$3b2o3bobo$3b2o4bo!
all that is needed is to find a still life that can replace the long barge.
This seems to last a bit longer, although it still doesn't work:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b3o2b2o$7bo$b6o$o3bo4bo$2o6bo$8b3o$3b2o$3b2o3$12bo$6b2o3bobo
$6b2o4bo!
no luck for me either.

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo$2b2o5b2o$8bobo$7bobo$8bo4bo$12bo$12b3o$7b2o$7b2o3$16bo$10b2o
3bobo$10b2o4bo!

need some help with the (13,1)c/31 spaceship

pcallahan
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by pcallahan » May 28th, 2021, 1:33 pm

C28 wrote:
May 28th, 2021, 12:28 pm
all that is needed is to find a still life that can replace the long barge.
Well, OK, but you can say that about any destructive turner. Finding a still life is unlikely, though you might be able to replace it with a spark and find a higher period reflector (I did not look closely enough to guess if that's possible).

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EvinZL
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by EvinZL » May 28th, 2021, 1:39 pm

I tested all the common still lives. none of them even come close to working.

So, the only hope is to use a Bellman catalyst to replace it, rather than trying to restore an uncommon sacrificial object. Hotdogpi's pattern seems on the right track, though that specific type of interaction seems doomed to fail, as there isn't enough room on the right to save it.

Code: Select all

x = 59, y = 12, rule = B2i3-kq4j/S2-i3
.2A7.2A35.2A7.2A$3A7.3A15.3A15.3A7.3A$.2A7.2A15.A3.A15.2A7.2A$26.A5.A
$26.A5.A$26.3A.3A2$26.3A.3A$26.A5.A$26.A5.A$27.A3.A$28.3A!

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