dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

A forum where anything goes. Introduce yourselves to other members of the forums, discuss how your name evolves when written out in the Game of Life, or just tell us how you found it. This is the forum for "non-academic" content.
User avatar
confocaloid
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by confocaloid » April 8th, 2024, 5:18 am

b-engine wrote:
April 7th, 2024, 10:17 pm
10. Is 3-state OT having same possibilities as 2-state INT? I'm now focusing on 3-state OTCA.
In one obvious sense, "3-state outer-totalistic" and "2-state isotropic" are two entirely different rulespaces, and hence they give different possibilities.
In another sense...

The full set of possibilities (range-1 Moore neighbourhood, three cellstates, outer totalistic rules):
  • the middle cell can be in one of three states (factor 3)
  • there are 45 distinguishable possibilities for the bag of neighbour cell states (factor 45):

    Code: Select all

    00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
    20 21 22 23 24 25 26
    30 31 32 33 34 35
    40 41 42 43 44
    50 51 52 53
    60 61 62
    70 71
    80
    (the first digit = the number of state-1 neighbours, second digit = the number of state-2 neighbours)
  • for each of 3 x 45 = 135 distinguishable 3x3 conditions, one can separately choose the future state of the middle cell (out of 3 possibilities).
Hence there are 3^135 = 25785133671514281396116148947909178321838248752307264505595053707 different cellular automata in this rulespace.
In comparison, "only" 2^102 = 5070602400912917605986812821504 different cellular automata can be described using Hensel notation.

If 3^135 seems too many, one could consider smaller 3-state rulespaces.
For example, make the three transitions 0 -> 2, 1 -> 1, 2 -> 1 forbidden. Then "only" 2^135 = 43556142965880123323311949751266331066368 CA can be defined (where state 1 can be intuitively understood as "newborn cell" and state 2 can be intuitively understood as "old cell").

Further, arrange things so that a cell "knows" its own current state (0, 1, 2), but a cell cannot distinguish state-1 neighbours from state-2 neighbours. (Every cell knows that it is 3-state, but sees the neighbourhood as 2-state.) Then only 2^27 = 134217728 different cellular automata can be defined. (You can apply different survival conditions to "newborn" and "old" cells, but otherwise it's analogous to Life-like cellular automata.)

There are many other possibilities for choosing a sub-rulespace within 3-state R1 Moore OT.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

Haycat2009
Posts: 806
Joined: April 26th, 2023, 5:47 am
Location: Bahar Junction, Zumaland

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by Haycat2009 » April 8th, 2024, 5:59 am

b-engine wrote:
April 7th, 2024, 10:17 pm
11. What's the most chaotic non-explosive rule? (This means that soups last extremely long and apgsearch will do poorly on those rules)
B3/S237e, B3/S235e and B3/S234z in descending order. I could not find anything further from Conway Life, but to be fair I checked using 100x100 - 50x50 soups.
b-engine wrote:
April 7th, 2024, 10:17 pm
10. Is 3-state OT having same possibilities as 2-state INT? I'm now focusing on 3-state OTCA.
No, 3-state OTCA has more. For a start you can make the third state do ANYTHING you want. (Generation? Neutronium? Egg? Killer? Wire?) INT cannot pull that trick off.
Last edited by Haycat2009 on April 8th, 2024, 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
~ Haycat Durnak, a hard-working editor
Also, support Conway and Friends story mode!
I mean no harm to those who have tested me. But do not take this for granted.

User avatar
confocaloid
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by confocaloid » April 8th, 2024, 6:02 am

For #11, there's an entire dedicated thread: Very nearly exploding rules.

Haycat2009
Posts: 806
Joined: April 26th, 2023, 5:47 am
Location: Bahar Junction, Zumaland

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by Haycat2009 » April 8th, 2024, 6:12 am

12. Are there any non-downsteam spaceships in Marine?
~ Haycat Durnak, a hard-working editor
Also, support Conway and Friends story mode!
I mean no harm to those who have tested me. But do not take this for granted.

User avatar
confocaloid
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by confocaloid » April 8th, 2024, 6:30 am

I didn't explore OCA:Marine, but I just found this seemingly-relevant discussion:
MathAndCode wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 1:19 pm
[...]
Moosey wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 8:12 am
I wonder whether there are southwest/northeast ships in this rule. (Northwest ships are impossible)
Because the rule doesn't have B4, B3, or birth with less cells in the neighborhood, a population's northward edge can never extend past its initial northward edge. The same thing is true for the westward edge. Therefore, I don't think that spaceships can have any northwards or westwards velocity in Marine. However, spaceships with directions like east or southsoutheast are still theoretically possible.
[...]

User avatar
b-engine
Posts: 1526
Joined: October 26th, 2023, 4:11 am
Location: Somewhere on earth

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by b-engine » April 8th, 2024, 9:51 am

13. Are size of predecessors affect the commonness of a certain pattern?
14. Are oscillators like tumbler considered as shuttle?
15. What's the known sparker with highest clearance?
My rules
-
100th post: 18 November 2023
1000th post: 8 March 2024
10000th post:
-
Warning: This user has grammar issues, and auto-capitalize everything he clicked.

User avatar
confocaloid
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by confocaloid » April 8th, 2024, 11:51 am

16. Do you trust periodic cellular automata patterns that break their promises?

User avatar
b-engine
Posts: 1526
Joined: October 26th, 2023, 4:11 am
Location: Somewhere on earth

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by b-engine » April 11th, 2024, 5:52 am

17. How if someone pried a use of a large still life?
18. Why there're no pages in Category:Oscillators_with_period_81?
19a. How many states are necessary for a wire OTCA to be Turing complete?
19b. How many states are necessary for a wire OTCA to have universal constructors?
20. Why steaths are required in Codd's CA?
---EDIT---
21. Can alternating rules behave like generation rules? (Like B23/S|B/S23 called as Brian's Brain ripoff)
22. What may come from a 3-state OTCA rulegolfing script?
23. What's the rule with most oscillators? (I may call it SoManyOscs)
24. What's the criteria needed for a rule to contain an adjustable spaceship?
---EDIT 2---
25. Why some people mistake tub and pond?
My rules
-
100th post: 18 November 2023
1000th post: 8 March 2024
10000th post:
-
Warning: This user has grammar issues, and auto-capitalize everything he clicked.

User avatar
breaker's glider gun
Posts: 673
Joined: May 23rd, 2021, 10:26 am
Location: the inside of a stuffed anaconda or maybe [click to not expand]

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by breaker's glider gun » April 22nd, 2024, 12:05 pm

C_R_116 wrote:
March 31st, 2024, 3:34 pm
I Do The Opposite.
And it's way more annoying.
:?: :?: . . . :!:
Give me a suggestion of something to draw here!

User avatar
confocaloid
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by confocaloid » April 24th, 2024, 12:22 am

26. How to improve the tutorial Tutorials/Catagolue stdin symmetry?
27. How to improve the article Cellular automaton?
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

User avatar
tommyaweosme
Posts: 314
Joined: January 15th, 2024, 9:37 am

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by tommyaweosme » April 24th, 2024, 10:15 pm

28. why am i so bad at catalysts?

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
b2o$b2o5$3o5b2o$obo5b2o$obo!
29. why is it called a puffer. it should be called a thingship.
home from sleepover

User avatar
b-engine
Posts: 1526
Joined: October 26th, 2023, 4:11 am
Location: Somewhere on earth

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by b-engine » April 25th, 2024, 2:26 am

tommyaweosme wrote:
April 24th, 2024, 10:15 pm
28. why I'm so bad at catalysts?

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
b2o$b2o5$3o5b2o$obo5b2o$obo!
29. why its called a puffer? it should be called a thingship.
Nowadays new catalysts are hard to find by hand, and most catalysts need specific active region and position in order to work.
It "puffs" things, so it's called "puffer".

31. Why transparent catalysts are hard to find?
32. Is there any spaceship made by corderizing unstable active regions other than cordership?
My rules
-
100th post: 18 November 2023
1000th post: 8 March 2024
10000th post:
-
Warning: This user has grammar issues, and auto-capitalize everything he clicked.

User avatar
tommyaweosme
Posts: 314
Joined: January 15th, 2024, 9:37 am

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by tommyaweosme » April 25th, 2024, 4:26 pm

b-engine wrote:
April 25th, 2024, 2:26 am
tommyaweosme wrote:
April 24th, 2024, 10:15 pm
28. why I'm so bad at catalysts?

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
b2o$b2o5$3o5b2o$obo5b2o$obo!
29. why its called a puffer? it should be called a thingship.
Nowadays new catalysts are hard to find by hand, and most catalysts need specific active region and position in order to work.
It "puffs" things, so it's called "puffer".

31. Why transparent catalysts are hard to find?
32. Is there any spaceship made by corderizing unstable active regions other than cordership?
you edited my quote :(

31A. for the same reason as i am bad at catalysts
home from sleepover

iddi01
Posts: 130
Joined: January 24th, 2024, 5:14 am
Location: B3-n/S1e2-a3-e4e

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by iddi01 » May 9th, 2024, 8:35 am

b-engine wrote:
April 25th, 2024, 2:26 am
31. Why transparent catalysts are hard to find?
LifeWiki wrote: The chance of a block in a specific location in an infinite random soup is approximately 1 in 473.
...so even for block, you need on average 473 attempts to get a successful transparent reaction.

33. Why the mods stop regularly visiting the OCA forum nowadays?
34. Why people don't like apgsearching other people's rules nowadays?
Wiki: User:iddi01

I'm making a poll. please contribute.

First gun i constructed:

Code: Select all

x = 69, y = 69, rule = B3-n/S1e2-a3-e4e
2$32b3o$32bobo$32bobo$32b3o27$63b4o$b4o58bo2bo$bo2bo23bo4b2o28b4o$b4o
21bobo$28bo21$35bo$34b3o6$33b3o$33bobo$33bobo$33b3o!

User avatar
confocaloid
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by confocaloid » May 10th, 2024, 4:20 am

iddi01 wrote:
May 9th, 2024, 8:35 am
[...] 33. Why the mods stop regularly visiting the OCA forum nowadays? [...]
Relatively high volume of "low effort, low contribution" posts.
Combined with a vastly larger area to understand, before you get the ability to meaningfully determine what likely counts as a productive contribution and what likely doesn't.
iddi01 wrote:
May 9th, 2024, 8:35 am
[...] 34. Why people don't like apgsearching other people's rules nowadays? [...]
Way too many interesting, notable, apgsearchable cellular automata to study them all one by one?
Focusing on specific rulesets misses other possibilities for exploration.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

User avatar
b-engine
Posts: 1526
Joined: October 26th, 2023, 4:11 am
Location: Somewhere on earth

Re: dumb questions that will probably never get answered (at least here)

Post by b-engine » May 10th, 2024, 5:34 am

35. Will the physical copy of Life Lexicon ever come out?
36. What type of oscillators are hardest to find?
My rules
-
100th post: 18 November 2023
1000th post: 8 March 2024
10000th post:
-
Warning: This user has grammar issues, and auto-capitalize everything he clicked.

Post Reply