Day and Night Spaceships containing Antispaceships

[RakeGuy1246]

After seeing that it is indeed possible to put antioscilators inside oscilators in the Day and Night cellular automaton, I started to wonder if you could contain antispaceships inside of spaceships in Day and Night. Not just smaller spaceships that move at the same rate as the bigger one in the same direction as the big one either. The smaller antispaceship can move at any rate, in any direction(s), as long as it manages to remain within the spaceship at all times.

[Hunting]

/rate/speed/

After seeing that it is indeed possible to put antioscilators inside oscilators in the Day and Night cellular automaton, I started to wonder if you could contain antispaceships inside of spaceships in Day and Night. Not just smaller spaceships that move at the same rate as the bigger one in the same direction as the big one either. The smaller antispaceship can move at any rate, in any direction(s), as long as it manages to remain within the spaceship at all times.

The two spaceship should be at the same speed or they will break obviously. Is there such a thing called "Whiteship"?

[yujh]

/rate/speed/

After seeing that it is indeed possible to put antioscilators inside oscilators in the Day and Night cellular automaton, I started to wonder if you could contain antispaceships inside of spaceships in Day and Night. Not just smaller spaceships that move at the same rate as the bigger one in the same direction as the big one either. The smaller antispaceship can move at any rate, in any direction(s), as long as it manages to remain within the spaceship at all times.

The two spaceship should be at the same speed or they will break obviously. Is there such a thing called "Whiteship"?

There's one :(known a long time ago)

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 34, rule = B3678/S34678
11bobobobobobobobobobobo5bo$10bobobobobobobobobobob2o2bo9bo$10b24ob3ob
o4b2obo$4b2o4b21o2b2ob3ob2obob3o$2bo2b10ob14o6b2ob2ob2o3b2o$b3obo2b5o
2b16o6b2o$4o2b6obo2bob14obo4b2o$b2obobob4o5b8ob8obo$3bob7obo2bob5o2b
10o$3bob8o2b7obo2bob7o$b2obobob7ob6o5b7obo$4o2b16obo2bob4obo4b2o$b3obo
2b15o2b6o6b2o$2bo2b20ob4o6b2ob2ob2o3b2o$4b2o4b21o2b2ob3ob2obob3o$10b
24ob3obo4b2obo$10bobobobobobobobobobob2o2bo9bo$11bobobobobobobobobobob
o5bo7$15bo$13b2o$12bob2obo$12b5o8bo$12bob2obo5b2o$13b2o7bob2obo$15bo6b
5o$22bob2obo$23b2o$25bo!

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 49, rule = B3678/S34678
10b2o32bo$9bob3o28b2ob2o$9b5o27bob4o$5b2o2b5o27b6o$4bob9o27b5o$3bob10o
29b3o$3b15o25bob2o$3b17o24b3o$4b16o25b2o$b11ob7o26bo$ob8o2bo2b6o25bo$
9obo4b6o$8obo5b9o$2b6o4b14o$b8o2bob13o$4b22o$4bob3ob17o$6b15o2b4o$6b
14obob7o$8b11obo2b9o$7b11o2bo3b9o$10b8o2bo2bob7o$10bob7ob3ob2ob9o$12b
10ob4ob7o$12b11o2bob10o$14b9o2bob9o$13b12ob9o$16b16o$16bob14o2bo$18b
14ob3o$18b18obo$19b11o2b6o$18bob7obobo4b3obo$19bo2b4o3b3o2b5o$22b5ob6o
4bo$22bobobo2b4obo2bo$23b2obo2b5ob2ob2o$24bo3b5o2b5o$31b2o2b2o2bo$33b
2o3b2o3bo$36bo4bob3o$37b10o$41b6o$40b5o$39b5o$40b3o$39bobo$40bobo$41bo
!

[Hunting]

/rate/speed/

After seeing that it is indeed possible to put antioscilators inside oscilators in the Day and Night cellular automaton, I started to wonder if you could contain antispaceships inside of spaceships in Day and Night. Not just smaller spaceships that move at the same rate as the bigger one in the same direction as the big one either. The smaller antispaceship can move at any rate, in any direction(s), as long as it manages to remain within the spaceship at all times.

The two spaceship should be at the same speed or they will break obviously. Is there such a thing called "Whiteship"?

There's one :(known a long time ago)

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 34, rule = B3678/S34678
11bobobobobobobobobobobo5bo$10bobobobobobobobobobob2o2bo9bo$10b24ob3ob
o4b2obo$4b2o4b21o2b2ob3ob2obob3o$2bo2b10ob14o6b2ob2ob2o3b2o$b3obo2b5o
2b16o6b2o$4o2b6obo2bob14obo4b2o$b2obobob4o5b8ob8obo$3bob7obo2bob5o2b
10o$3bob8o2b7obo2bob7o$b2obobob7ob6o5b7obo$4o2b16obo2bob4obo4b2o$b3obo
2b15o2b6o6b2o$2bo2b20ob4o6b2ob2ob2o3b2o$4b2o4b21o2b2ob3ob2obob3o$10b
24ob3obo4b2obo$10bobobobobobobobobobob2o2bo9bo$11bobobobobobobobobobob
o5bo7$15bo$13b2o$12bob2obo$12b5o8bo$12bob2obo5b2o$13b2o7bob2obo$15bo6b
5o$22bob2obo$23b2o$25bo!

Thanks. Is it extensible on the other dimension though?

[RakeGuy1246]

/rate/speed/
The two spaceship should be at the same speed or they will break obviously.

Not necessarily. If the spaceship containing the antispaceship has something in it to bring the antispaceship back to the front when it reaches the back, or vis versa, then we could contain an antispaceship moving at a different speed than the spaceship containing it, even moving backwards. This is why I made this a forum instead of posting it on the "simple non-cgol questions" forum. There is nothing simple about it.

[bubblegum]

Not necessarily. If the spaceship containing the antispaceship has something in it to bring the antispaceship back to the front when it reaches the back, or vis versa, then we could contain an antispaceship moving at a different speed than the spaceship containing it, even moving backwards. This is why I made this a forum instead of posting it on the "simple non-cgol questions" forum. There is nothing simple about it.

The person asking the question is basic, therefore it should go on the thread for basic non-CGOL questions.

Okay, that was a little mean. (Understatement of the year?) Let's try again.

So you're envisioning a spaceship in D&N with an interior that just happens to have a signal-transferring mechanism that can be activated by another spaceship of a different simplified speed where the signals just happen to be able to reconstruct the spaceship on a good location and trajectory to repeat the cycle while not being destroyed? That's like asking "Is there a 34-glider RCT recipe?" Possibly, but very very very very unlikely. At least people might try and improve the RCT recipe. Basically, it's a statistical certainty that this amazing mythical spaceship that's better than all others doesn't exist. I might as well try synthesising the 3-block twin bees shuttle with 3 gliders.

Also, 1) this is definitely a basic question, 2) this is just a continuation of the antioscillator question that nobody asked for (and in fact, was completely trivial), and 3) there's already a dedicated D&N thread.

[RakeGuy1246]

So you're envisioning a spaceship in D&N with an interior that just happens to have a signal-transferring mechanism that can be activated by another spaceship of a different simplified speed where the signals just happen to be able to reconstruct the spaceship on a good location and trajectory to repeat the cycle while not being destroyed? That's like asking "Is there a 34-glider RCT recipe?" Possibly, but very very very very unlikely. At least people might try and improve the RCT recipe. Basically, it's a statistical certainty that this amazing mythical spaceship that's better than all others doesn't exist. I might as well try synthesising the 3-block twin bees shuttle with 3 gliders.

I'm not necessarily envisioning that type of spaceship. It was just an example to show that, theoretically, it is possible to have an internal antispaceship that moves at a different speed. There are other ways to create such a thing of course, such as having a mechanism on both ends that builds one use 180 degree reflectors at a set pace so that the internal spaceship, moving at a faster speed that the external one containing it, can get reflected and destroy the reflector before the reflector has a chance to destroy the machine that created it. I'm just saying that, even if it seems that I'm envisioning it done one way, there are still other, potentially simpler methods to effective do the same thing that I originally asked, which is simple to have a faster or slower moving internal antispaceship.

[wildmyron]

Is there such a thing called "Whiteship"?

There's one :(known a long time ago)

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 34, rule = B3678/S34678
11bobobobobobobobobobobo5bo$10bobobobobobobobobobob2o2bo9bo$10b24ob3ob
o4b2obo$4b2o4b21o2b2ob3ob2obob3o$2bo2b10ob14o6b2ob2ob2o3b2o$b3obo2b5o
2b16o6b2o$4o2b6obo2bob14obo4b2o$b2obobob4o5b8ob8obo$3bob7obo2bob5o2b
10o$3bob8o2b7obo2bob7o$b2obobob7ob6o5b7obo$4o2b16obo2bob4obo4b2o$b3obo
2b15o2b6o6b2o$2bo2b20ob4o6b2ob2ob2o3b2o$4b2o4b21o2b2ob3ob2obob3o$10b
24ob3obo4b2obo$10bobobobobobobobobobob2o2bo9bo$11bobobobobobobobobobob
o5bo7$15bo$13b2o$12bob2obo$12b5o8bo$12bob2obo5b2o$13b2o7bob2obo$15bo6b
5o$22bob2obo$23b2o$25bo!

Thanks. Is it extensible on the other dimension though?

There are many such mechanisms at this speed in Day and Night. Here's one I put together after finding a few parts with JLS:

Code: Select all

x = 82, y = 86, rule = B3678/S34678
10b2o62b2o$5bo67bobobo$3bobob3o2bo60b3o3bo$2b5o3bo62b3o2bo2bo$b6o3b2o
62b4o2bo$9o61b3o3bobobo$b10o3bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobo3b5o$2bob69ob2obo$3b73o$2bob73o$b77obo$79o$b77obo$2bob
73o$3b19o2b36o2b14o$3b14ob41obobob12o$2bob11obobo3b2ob34o3b3ob11o$b13o
5b3ob36o3b2ob2ob10obo$13o6b3o2b36o4b2ob12o$b11o9b35o3b3obobob11obo$2bo
b9o10b3obobobobobobobobobobobobobobob3o5b14o$3b11obo43bo2bob12o$3b12o
47b14o$2bob10obo47b14o$b12o51bob12obo$12o53b14o$b12o51bob12obo$2bob10o
bo47b14o$3b12o19b2o10b2o14b14o$3b12o14bo15bobobo12b14o$2bob10obo11bobo
b3o2bo8b3o3bo11b14o$b12o13b5o3bo10b3o2bo2bo10bob12obo$12o13b6o3b2o10b
4o2bo12b14o$b12o11b9o9b3o3bobobo11bob12obo$2bob10obo9b10o3bobo3b5o14b
14o$3b12o11bob17ob2obo12b14o$3b12o12b21o14b14o$2bob10obo10bob21o14b14o
$b12o12b25obo12bob12obo$12o12b27o14b14o$b12o12b25obo12bob12obo$2bob10o
bo10bob21o14b14o$3b12o12b21o14b14o$3b12o12b21o14b14o$2bob10obo10bob21o
14b14o$b12o12b25obo12bob12obo$12o12b27o14b14o$b12o12b25obo12bob12obo$
2bob10obo10bob21o14b14o$3b12o12b21o14b14o$3b12o11bob17ob2obo12b14o$2bo
b10obo9b10o3bobo3b5o14b14o$b12o11b9o9b3o3bobobo11bob12obo$12o13b6o3b2o
10b4o2bo12b14o$b12o13b5o3bo10b3o2bo2bo10bob12obo$2bob10obo11bobob3o2bo
8b3o3bo11b14o$3b12o14bo15bobobo12b14o$3b12o19b2o10b2o14b14o$2bob10obo
47b14o$b12o51bob12obo$12o53b14o$b12o51bob12obo$2bob10obo47b14o$3b12o
47b14o$3b11obo43bo2bob12o$2bob9o10b3obobobobobobobobobobobobobobob3o5b
14o$b11o9b35o3b3obobob11obo$13o6b3o2b36o4b2ob12o$b13o5b3ob36o3b2ob2ob
10obo$2bob11obobo3b2ob34o3b3ob11o$3b14ob41obobob12o$3b19o2b36o2b14o$2b
ob73o$b77obo$79o$b77obo$2bob73o$3b73o$2bob69ob2obo$b10o3bobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo3b5o$9o61b3o3bobobo$b6o3b2o
62b4o2bo$2b5o3bo62b3o2bo2bo$3bobob3o2bo60b3o3bo$5bo67bobobo$10b2o62b2o!

As for containing a slower or faster spaceship within anther spaceship, that's a much more complex task. Your idea of building OTRs at just the right pace to bounce a faster ship around within the slower ship seems like a practical idea to me, but I'm not going to put in any time to try building it. Converting ships to signals and vice versa seems a lot trickier to me, though there are certainly examples of this in the isotropic non-totalistic rule space (see the recent posts in the Rules with small adjustable spaceships thread for some examples). Finding mechanisms like that is a lot easier when you have the flexibility of searching the rule space as well as pattern building.