Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

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muzik
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by muzik » February 16th, 2020, 10:57 am

Hunting wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 10:45 am
muzik wrote:
February 15th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Are b1357s1357, b1357s02468, b02468s1357 and b02468s02468 reversible? I've heard on multiple occasions that they are but given the way large patterns tend to immediately die out at generations 2^n it doesn't seem at all possible for an outer-totalistic rule to generate these patterns from a void.
Because there is B1, there's no pattern that can die out.
Yes, obviously, but are the rules reversible?
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Moosey » February 16th, 2020, 12:07 pm

muzik wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 10:57 am
Hunting wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 10:45 am
muzik wrote:
February 15th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Are b1357s1357, b1357s02468, b02468s1357 and b02468s02468 reversible? I've heard on multiple occasions that they are but given the way large patterns tend to immediately die out at generations 2^n it doesn't seem at all possible for an outer-totalistic rule to generate these patterns from a void.
Because there is B1, there's no pattern that can die out.
Yes, obviously, but are the rules reversible?
Yes- there is an algorithm which can generate those patterns from a void surrounded by the replicated patterns
I am a prolific creator of many rather pathetic googological functions

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Naszvadi » March 20th, 2020, 9:28 am

Is there a totalistic B2*/* life-like rule (withOUT B0) that supports at least one of the following gliders and there are at least one right-angle nonexploding collision between two gliders AND streams?

Code: Select all

x = 20 , y = 3 , rule=B2/S
boo6boo6boo$obbo4bo$11bobbbbobbo!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » April 8th, 2020, 8:25 am

Can anyone please apgsearch the following rule?

Code: Select all

B34t5y7/S23
Bx222 IS MY WORST ENEMY.

Please click here for my own pages.

Also, please apgsearch B34t5y7/S23 (B-life)

The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
The 70th NAI-ve guy is watching.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Hunting » April 8th, 2020, 8:28 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:25 am
Can anyone please apgsearch the following rule?

Code: Select all

B34t5y7/S23
That belongs to the apgsearch - haul requests thread, and you already posted that multiple times as well.
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » April 8th, 2020, 8:29 am

I neither have the latest version of apgsearch, nor know how to compile, run or use it. I don't know how to use gcc-g++, git or whatever is needed to run it.
Bx222 IS MY WORST ENEMY.

Please click here for my own pages.

Also, please apgsearch B34t5y7/S23 (B-life)

The ENEERG-y of the EVAD is watching.
The 70th NAI-ve guy is watching.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Saka » April 8th, 2020, 8:31 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 8:29 am
I neither have the latest version of apgsearch, nor know how to compile, run or use it. I don't know how to use gcc-g++, git or whatever is needed to run it.
What problem are you getting, exactly? Did you try following the "Contributing to Catagolue" tutorial on the wiki?
Tutorials/Contributing_to_Catagolue

Code: Select all

o3b2ob2obo3b2o2b2o$bo3b2obob3o3bo2bo$2bo2b3o5b3ob4o$3o3bo2bo2b3o3b3o$
4bo4bobo4bo$2o2b2o2b4obo2bo3bo$2ob4o3bo2bo2bo2bo$b2o3bobob2o$3bobobo5b
obobobo$3bobobob2o3bo2bobo!
(Check gen 3)
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Hunting » April 8th, 2020, 8:48 am

Help I can't upload the results to Catagolue.
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » April 8th, 2020, 9:00 am

Help I can’t get Apgsearch here at all!!!!
I have python 2.7.1,golly 3.2 and nothing else. No twitter or access to Catagolue.
B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!
Mission: find a rule with 2-5ob,7-15d,3-5o ships and 4 sparky hp osc.
B2ikn35j6i/S23-a8
B2ck3ar4ac5e6c7/S1e2-an3ejnr4air5iy6c7c8

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Hunting » April 8th, 2020, 9:05 am

yujh wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 9:00 am
Help I can’t get Apgsearch here at all!!!!
I have python 2.7.1,golly 3.2 and nothing else. No twitter or access to Catagolue.
Download apgsearch, run it in Golly, what's the problem with this method?
MLP: Multi-Layer Perceptron

"Look at this country! U R Gay. Hehehehehe!"
Moosey wrote:
February 5th, 2019, 7:51 pm
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“Quick, hide it!”
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yujh
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » April 8th, 2020, 9:16 am

Hunting wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 9:05 am
yujh wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 9:00 am
Help I can’t get Apgsearch here at all!!!!
I have python 2.7.1,golly 3.2 and nothing else. No twitter or access to Catagolue.
Download apgsearch, run it in Golly, what's the problem with this method?
Where to download?
B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!
Mission: find a rule with 2-5ob,7-15d,3-5o ships and 4 sparky hp osc.
B2ikn35j6i/S23-a8
B2ck3ar4ac5e6c7/S1e2-an3ejnr4air5iy6c7c8

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by LaundryPizza03 » April 21st, 2020, 2:44 am

David Eppstein mentions on his website that B3/S45678 contains a small p22 oscillator. Does anyone have any knowledge of this?

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
LaundryPizza03 at Wikipedia

The latest edition of new-gliders.db.txt and oscillators.db.txt have 31150 spaceships and 1205 oscillators from outer-totalistic rules. You are invited to help!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Naszvadi » April 21st, 2020, 4:56 am

LaundryPizza03 wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 2:44 am
David Eppstein mentions on his website that B3/S45678 contains a small p22 oscillator. Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
Not really, found from random seeds: P2s, P3s, P5 and P114

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 98, rule = B3/S45678
11b3o12bo8b2o$10bo3bo10b3o7b2o$14bo11bo8b2o$14bo20b2o$12b2o$11bo$10bo$
10bo$10b5o17$11b3o12b2o8b2o$10bo3bo10b4o6b4o$14bo10b4o6b4o$14bo11b2o8b
3o$12b2o$14bo$14bo$10bo3bo$11b3o22$10b5o11b2o$10bo14b4o$10bo15b2o$10bo
$10b4o$14bo$14bo$10bo3bo$11b3o22$2bo4bo5bo14b2o2bo$b2o3b2o4b2o12b6o5bo
$obo2bobo3bobo11b8ob3o$2bo4bo2bo2bo11b12o$2bo4bo2b5o10b14o$2bo4bo5bo
12bob3ob7o$2bo4bo5bo12b3o2bob7o$2bo4bo5bo12bob3ob7o$2bo4bo5bo11b14o$
25b12o$25b8ob3o$26b6o5bo$28b2o2bo!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Macbi » April 21st, 2020, 5:26 am

LaundryPizza03 wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 2:44 am
David Eppstein mentions on his website that B3/S45678 contains a small p22 oscillator. Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
I found it with LLS:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 6, rule = B3/S45678
bobo$2ob2o$5o$b3o$b3o$2bo!

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yujh
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » April 21st, 2020, 8:42 am

Can anyone find a c/2 in this rule?(a rule with gliders)(is it possible?)(searching width 75!!!)

Code: Select all

x=0,y=0,rule= B3aijn/S2ae3jnr
!
B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!
Mission: find a rule with 2-5ob,7-15d,3-5o ships and 4 sparky hp osc.
B2ikn35j6i/S23-a8
B2ck3ar4ac5e6c7/S1e2-an3ejnr4air5iy6c7c8

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Hunting » April 21st, 2020, 9:12 am

yujh wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 8:42 am
Can anyone find a c/2 in this rule?(a rule with gliders)(is it possible?)(searching width 75!!!)

Code: Select all

x=0,y=0,rule= B3aijn/S2ae3jnr
!
Not up to logical width 13 of every symmetry.
MLP: Multi-Layer Perceptron

"Look at this country! U R Gay. Hehehehehe!"
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Saka » May 8th, 2020, 8:56 am

Is there a known Isotropic Totalistic / Non-Totalistic rule that can be made to explode at a relativistic speed (speeds between c/2 and c) in all directions. By "be made", I mean that it is ok to specify a pattern, but it has to chaotically explode at a relativistic speed forever (Without any c explosions overtaking).
Kinda like this, but this still has some c replicators and it is eventually overtaken by a c explosion

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 13, rule = B2ac3ae/S1c2i3i
5bo$4b2o$5bo8$bo2bo$2o3bo$bo!

Code: Select all

o3b2ob2obo3b2o2b2o$bo3b2obob3o3bo2bo$2bo2b3o5b3ob4o$3o3bo2bo2b3o3b3o$
4bo4bobo4bo$2o2b2o2b4obo2bo3bo$2ob4o3bo2bo2bo2bo$b2o3bobob2o$3bobobo5b
obobobo$3bobobob2o3bo2bobo!
(Check gen 3)
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by lemon41625 » May 21st, 2020, 3:57 am

How do B0 rules work without instanteaous filling up every cell in the plane? I just realised my current definition of naive rules would allow such behaviour (even though my implementation does not).
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Saka » May 21st, 2020, 4:00 am

lemon41625 wrote:
May 21st, 2020, 3:57 am
How do B0 rules work without instanteaous filling up every cell in the plane? I just realised my current definition of naive rules would allow such behaviour (even though my implementation does not).
Golly runs the inverse rule every odd generation. Details copy-pasted from Golly:
Golly wrote:Emulating B0 rules

Rules containing B0 are tricky to handle in an unbounded universe because every dead cell becomes alive in the next generation. If the rule doesn't contain Smax (where max is the number of neighbors in the neighborhood: 8 for Moore, 6 for Hexagonal or 4 for Von Neumann) then the "background" cells alternate from all-alive to all-dead, creating a nasty strobing effect. To avoid these problems, Golly emulates rules with B0 in the following way:

A totalistic rule containing B0 and Smax is converted into an equivalent rule (without B0) by inverting the neighbor counts, then using S(max-x) for the B counts and B(max-x) for the S counts. For example, B0123478/S01234678 (AntiLife) is changed to B3/S23 (Life) via these steps: B0123478/S01234678 -> B56/S5 -> B3/S23.

A non-totalistic rule is converted in a similar way. The isotropic letters are inverted and then S(max-x)(letters) is used for B counts and B(max-x)(letters) is used for the S counts. The 4 neighbor letters are swapped using the following table:
4c -> 4e
4e -> 4c
4k -> 4k
4a -> 4a
4i -> 4t
4n -> 4r
4y -> 4j
4q -> 4w
4j -> 4y
4r -> 4n
4t -> 4i
4w -> 4q
4z -> 4z

A totalistic rule containing B0 but not Smax is converted into a pair of rules (both without B0): one is used for the even generations and the other for the odd generations. The rule for even generations uses inverted neighbor counts. The rule for odd generations uses S(max-x) for the B counts and B(max-x) for the S counts. For example, B03/S23 becomes B1245678/S0145678 (even) and B56/S58 (odd).

A non-totalistic rule is converted in a similar way. For even generations invert both B(x)(letter) and S(x)(letter). For odd generations except 4-neighbor letters, use B(x)(letter) if and only if the original rule has S(max-x)(letter) and use S(x)(letter) if and only if the original rule has B(max-x)(letter). For 4-neighbor isotropic letters use the table above. For example, B0124-k/S1c25 becomes B34k5678/S01-c34678 (even) and B367c/S4-k678 (odd).

For a MAP rule B0 is equivalent to the first bit being 1. Smax is equivalent to the 511th bit being 1. For B0 with Smax the rule is converted to NOT(REVERSE(bits)). For B0 without Smax the even rule is NOT(bits) and the odd rule is REVERSE(bits).

In all cases, the replacement rule(s) generate patterns that are equivalent to the requested rule. However, you need to be careful when editing an emulated pattern in a rule that contains B0 but not Smax. If you do a cut or copy then you should only paste into a generation with the same parity.

Code: Select all

o3b2ob2obo3b2o2b2o$bo3b2obob3o3bo2bo$2bo2b3o5b3ob4o$3o3bo2bo2b3o3b3o$
4bo4bobo4bo$2o2b2o2b4obo2bo3bo$2ob4o3bo2bo2bo2bo$b2o3bobob2o$3bobobo5b
obobobo$3bobobob2o3bo2bobo!
(Check gen 3)
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Rocknlol » May 31st, 2020, 7:45 pm

Saka wrote:
May 8th, 2020, 8:56 am
Is there a known Isotropic Totalistic / Non-Totalistic rule that can be made to explode at a relativistic speed (speeds between c/2 and c) in all directions. By "be made", I mean that it is ok to specify a pattern, but it has to chaotically explode at a relativistic speed forever (Without any c explosions overtaking).
[/code]
B02357/S2356 explodes with 3c/4 speed in all directions, as do the other 3 rules that have the spaceship below:

Code: Select all

#C Glider 2096, 3c/4 diagonal
#C
#C B012345678 S012345678
#C  X-XX X-X-   -XX-XX--
#C
x = 6, y = 3, rule = B02357/S2356
b2o$o2b3o$ob4o!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by LaundryPizza03 » June 16th, 2020, 12:11 pm

Is there a proof that the maximum speed in B0 is 3c/4 diagonal? I'm pretty sure it is, but is there an explicit proof that speeds between 3c/4 and c diagonal are impossible?

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
LaundryPizza03 at Wikipedia

The latest edition of new-gliders.db.txt and oscillators.db.txt have 31150 spaceships and 1205 oscillators from outer-totalistic rules. You are invited to help!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by toroidalet » June 16th, 2020, 3:58 pm

A 3c/4 frontend alternates between moving ahead by a full diagonal (due to B1c) and a half diagonal. The only way to move faster is to have 2 full diagonals, but this means that B1c is on in both even and odd generations, meaning that the rule explodes at c.
Without B0, we can only move a half diagonal per generation, which is why c/2 is the fastest diagonal speed for non-B0.
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by NoAyeBeardo » June 30th, 2020, 5:13 am

Which rules are omniperiodic?
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » June 30th, 2020, 6:18 am

NoAyeBeardo wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 5:13 am
Which rules are omniperiodic?
...... https://www.conwaylife.com/forums/view ... =11&t=2597
There’s an infinite amount of rules that are omniperiodic, I suppose.
B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!
Mission: find a rule with 2-5ob,7-15d,3-5o ships and 4 sparky hp osc.
B2ikn35j6i/S23-a8
B2ck3ar4ac5e6c7/S1e2-an3ejnr4air5iy6c7c8

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by NoAyeBeardo » June 30th, 2020, 6:38 am

What do you mean by infinite (all? some?)
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