Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

[confocaloid]

Tangential: https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... s-quantity

I would be more interested in specific sets of survival (S) and stagnation (A) conditions, either neighbour-counting or isotropic, that allow indestructible structures. I think knowing just the lowest number of A/S conditions is unlikely to lead to further interesting consequences.

[Mathemagician314]

Would the following objects count as OMOS's and SMOS's respectively, even though the spaceships never actually complete a full cycle?

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x = 13, y = 4, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
obo$b2o7bobo$obo7b2o$10bobo!

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x = 9, y = 9, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
3o$bo$obo4$6bobo$7b2o$6bobo!

Here's the spaceship on its own for reference, it has a speed of 10c/39o:

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x = 3, y = 3, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
3o$bo$obo!

[NimbleRogue]

Would the following objects count as OMOS's and SMOS's respectively, even though the spaceships never actually complete a full cycle?

Yes they would be

Also question, what is the largest amount of cells of the smallest still life in a rule?
For example life's smallest still life is the block, with 4 cells, but in this rule, the smallest still life has 17 cells

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x = 5, y = 5, rule = B4a/S2a3i5cn7e8
bobo$5o$b3o$5o$bobo!

[yujh]

I definitely don't have an answer for int, but for outer totalistic rules according to this sheet it might be B24678/S246 with minimum 364.

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x = 36, y = 36, rule = B24678/S246
18bo$16bob2o$15b2ob2obo$13bob2o2bob2o3bo$8bo3b2obo5b2obob2o$7b2obob2o
8bob2ob2o$6b2ob2obo7b2obobo2b2o$5b2o2bobob2o3bobob2o5b2o$4b2o5b2obobob
2obo8b2o$3b2o8bob2ob3ob3o3b2o$5b2o3b3ob3o2b3ob3o3b2o$4b2o3b3ob3o6bob2o
b2o$6b2ob2obo7b2obobobob3o$3b3obobobob2o6b2obobobob3o$2b3obobobob2o8bo
b2ob2o$6b2ob2obo11b3o4b3o$b3o4b3o14b3o4b3o$3o4b3o$26b3o4b3o$b3o4b3o14b
3o4b3o$2b3o4b3o11bob2ob2o$7b2ob2obo8b2obobobob3o$3b3obobobob2o6b2obobo
bob3o$4b3obobobob2o7bob2ob2o$7b2ob2obo6b3ob3o3b2o$5b2o3b3ob3o2b3ob3o3b
2o$6b2o3b3ob3ob2obo8b2o$4b2o8bob2obobob2o5b2o$5b2o5b2obobo3b2obobo2b2o
$6b2o2bobob2o7bob2ob2o$7b2ob2obo8b2obob2o$8b2obob2o5bob2o3bo$9bo3b2obo
2b2obo$14bob2ob2o$16b2obo$17bo!

[TYCF]

Is this agar called waffle? Some spaceships containing this agar are called waffle ships.

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x = 9, y = 9, rule = B2-ce3ejknq4aceikwy5-ikq6-in7e/S1c2cn3cikqr4-ajrw5cejkq6-k7e8
bobobobo$9o$bobobobo$9o$bobobobo$9o$bobobobo$9o$bobobobo!

[hotdogPi]

It's currently unnamed as far as I know, but it's as good a name as any.

[eRroR_6o6]

How does the LTL custom neighborhood actually work?

[Haycat2009]

Where can I find the Glider database since Internet achieve does not save everything? And how do I tell what is Glider 13264, 7171, 190, 4139?

[confocaloid]

Where can I find the Glider database since Internet achieve does not save everything? [...]

glider.db (archived copy): https://web.archive.org/web/20221104201 ... /glider.db

[...] And how do I tell what is Glider 13264, 7171, 190, 4139?

Glider 7171: https://web.archive.org/web/20150422141 ... s0/g4.html
xq6_1owo1z128821/b2s0
viewtopic.php?p=16447#p16447

Glider 190: https://web.archive.org/web/20060916083 ... /g190.html

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#C Glider 190
#C ::B0126/S245:B0126/S245:20:1:-1:3:3:2bo2$3o!
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B0126/S245
2bo2$3o!

I believe the following is Glider 13264 (derived from this, this and glider.db):

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#C ::B0123458/S02346:B0123458/S02346:20:0:-10:15:7:obob2o3b2obobo$obo9bobo$3ob2o3b2ob3o$bo11bo$bobo7bobo2$2b2o7b2o!
x = 15, y = 7, rule = B0123458/S02346
obob2o3b2obobo$obo9bobo$3ob2o3b2ob3o$bo11bo$bobo7bobo2$2b2o7b2o!

I believe the following is Glider 4139 (derived from glider.db and this):

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#C ::B015/S023:B0158/S023:10:-1:0:7:5:2obo$o2bo2bo$o4bo$o2bo2bo$2obo!
x = 7, y = 5, rule = B015/S023
2obo$o2bo2bo$o4bo$o2bo2bo$2obo!

[confocaloid]

How does the LTL custom neighborhood actually work?

https://golly.sourceforge.io/Help/Algor ... tml#custom

[Haycat2009]

How do I make a custom rule such that some transitions use rotate8reflect, while others use permute?

[muzik]

Are there any ways to make this replicator truly clean without using more than two states?

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x = 6, y = 6, rule = B34qtw5y/S23
3b3o$3bobo$3b3o2$2o$2o!

I made this absurd 10-state demo some years ago, but we can surely do better.

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x = 6, y = 6, rule = twyRepTamed
3b3o$3bobo$3b3o2$2o$2o!

[confocaloid]

Are there any ways to make this replicator truly clean without using more than two states?

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x = 6, y = 6, rule = B34qtw5y/S23
3b3o$3bobo$3b3o2$2o$2o!

I made this absurd 10-state demo some years ago, but we can surely do better.

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x = 6, y = 6, rule = twyRepTamed
3b3o$3bobo$3b3o2$2o$2o!

Differential rulegolfing shows that the nine living conditions { B4q, B5n, B5q, B6c, S3k, S4q, S5r, S6e, S8 } are not queried before T = 95, but are queried before T = 110. Toggling some nonempty subset of those conditions might lead to interesting results.

In particular, toggling B5n kills the gliders:

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x = 6, y = 6, rule = B34qtw5ny/S23
3b3o$3bobo$3b3o2$2o$2o!

[Period1GliderGun]

In particular, toggling B5n kills the gliders:

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x = 6, y = 6, rule = B34qtw5ny/S23
3b3o$3bobo$3b3o2$2o$2o!

14c/272o in that rule:

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x = 5, y = 8, rule = B34qtw5ny/S23
bo$bo$obo$bo$bo2$3b2o$3b2o!

[muzik]

Differential rulegolfing shows that the nine living conditions { B4q, B5n, B5q, B6c, S3k, S4q, S5r, S6e, S8 } are not queried before T = 95, but are queried before T = 110. Toggling some nonempty subset of those conditions might lead to interesting results.

Are there programs that can be used to check this automatically?

I remember the following failed replicator also having a version that replicates correctly, but searching back then turned up no results (hence why I did a three-state stabilization).

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x = 3, y = 3, rule = B38/S2378
3o$obo$obo!

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x = 3, y = 3, rule = ForcedRepl
3o$obo$obo!

B34tw5y/S23 (the rule I originally got the other quadratic replicator from) also has this, which may be too messy to tame into a 17c/47 orthogonal quadratic replicator:

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x = 3, y = 3, rule = B34tw5y/S23
3o$obo$3o!

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x = 20, y = 20, rule = B34tw5y/S23
17b3o$17bobo$17b3o15$3o$obo$3o!

[confocaloid]

Are there programs that can be used to check this automatically?

I used a script from viewtopic.php?p=148838#p148838 twice, to compute which conditions are queried before a certain generation, and copied the results into a text editor. Then derived the differences by eyes.
Writing a script that takes two generation numbers and does everything else automatically is left as an exercise.

edit:

B34tw5y/S23 (the rule I originally got the other quadratic replicator from) also has this, which may be too messy to tame into a 17c/47 orthogonal quadratic replicator:

I got this after several attempts (there might be something better):

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x = 3, y = 2, rule = B34tw5cy6a/S23
3o$obo!

[confocaloid]

Would the following objects count as OMOS's and SMOS's respectively, even though the spaceships never actually complete a full cycle?

Code: Select all

x = 13, y = 4, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
obo$b2o7bobo$obo7b2o$10bobo!

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x = 9, y = 9, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
3o$bo$obo4$6bobo$7b2o$6bobo!

Here's the spaceship on its own for reference, it has a speed of 10c/39o:

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x = 3, y = 3, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
3o$bo$obo!

I think the diagonal 3c/46 spaceship is not SMOS, because It is impossible to rewind the two orthogonal 10c/39 spaceships arbitrarily far back in time without interactions. Hence there is no obvious way to actually make the 3c/46d out of two colliding 10c/39o. (I did not find a non-obvious synthesis either, but that would not change the answer.)

Whether or not the p77 oscillator is OMOS is more or less a choice, whenever you're collecting/classifying them. Some may consider the p77 oscillator to be OMOS, because the two colliding 10c/39o spaceships are rewindable arbitrarily far back in time without interactions. Others may choose to reject it, because once the oscillator is formed, the spaceships never go through their full period without interacting.

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#C [[ STOP 39 ]]
x = 33, y = 4, rule = B2ci3-ein4einrty5en6-ae8/S02ace3-ejkr4cijknqy5er6ace7c8
obo$b2o27bobo$obo27b2o$30bobo!

[Haycat2009]

Why is 3x3 named that even though 3x3 blocks do not emulate anything?

(This is a real Lifeviewer alias)

[confocaloid]

Why is 3x3 named that even though 3x3 blocks do not emulate anything?

(This is a real Lifeviewer alias)

Please give or link the rule definition in the question.

[Haycat2009]

Why is 3x3 named that even though 3x3 blocks do not emulate anything?

(This is a real Lifeviewer alias)

Please give or link the rule definition in the question.

Try it in a Lifeviewer - B35cky/

[Period1GliderGun]

Try it in a Lifeviewer - I am not sure of its rulestring.

Using the "copy rule" function gives the rulestring as B35cky68/S0245-c6n.

[Haycat2009]

Try it in a Lifeviewer - I am not sure of its rulestring.

Using the "copy rule" function gives the rulestring as B35cky68/S0245-c6n.

So why is it named 3x3 despite a lack of 3x3 simulation?

[confocaloid]

So why is it named 3x3 despite a lack of 3x3 simulation?

So why do you believe "3x3 simulation" should be relevant for this question?

Try it in a Lifeviewer - I am not sure of its rulestring.

Using the "copy rule" function gives the rulestring as B35cky68/S0245-c6n.

I think the alias was added to Catagolue in this commit: https://gitlab.com/hatsya/open-source/c ... 7f0a490b68
The commit summary reads "a correction and more isonontot rules from the dark ages of the forums".
Searching "B35cky68" on the forum did not help me to find anything relevant. That might be because "dark ages" referred to time before modern Hensel notation, or because forum search for some reason does not find some old posts.

#added later: Rule:3x3 exists and links to viewtopic.php?p=26264#p26264 in the comment section. That linked forum post includes a 2-state rueltable and what amounts to an explanation of the name:

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@RULE 3x3
@TABLE
n_states:2
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4reflect
0,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,1
0,1,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,1
0,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1
0,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1
0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,1
0,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,1
0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1
0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1
0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1
0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
0,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,1,1
0,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,1,1
0,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,1
0,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,1
0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1
1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,1
1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,1
1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0
1,1,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0
1,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,0
1,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0
1,1,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,0
1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0
1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,0
1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0
1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0
1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0
1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,1
1,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,0,1
1,1,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1
1,1,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,1
1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,1
1,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1
1,1,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,1
1,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1
1,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,1
1,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1
1,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,1
1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1
1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1
1,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,0,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,1
1,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,1
1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,1
1,0,0,1,1,1,1,0,1,1
1,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,1
1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,1
1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,1
1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,1
1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,0
1,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,0
1,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,1,0
1,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,1,0
1,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,1,0
1,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,0
1,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,1,1
1,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0
1,1,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,0
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0

This rule is loosely a variant of Move and is designed to have a very large diversity of objects that fit inside a 3x3 bounding box in all phases. Here they are in order from left to right of decreasing frequency:

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x = 74, y = 3, rule = 3x3
6bo4bo6bo5bo11bo6bo3bobo4b2o3bobo4b2o3bobo$bo4bo5b2o3b3o3b3o3b3o3bobo
3bo6bo5bo4bo5b3o3b2o$6bo5bo11bo4b2o5bo4b2o4b2o4b2o5b2o3b2o5bo!

[...]

[Haycat2009]

So why is it named 3x3 despite a lack of 3x3 simulation?

So why do you believe "3x3 simulation" should be relevant for this question?
[...]

[/quote]

I thought that it was analogous to 2x2, where 2x2 blocks simulate something, so I expected 3x3 to have 3x3 blocks simulating something.

[confocaloid]

I think the rule was named so because it was designed to have many objects that fit inside a 3x3 bounding box in all phases. (See the quoted post above)