Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

For discussion of other cellular automata.
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yujh
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » June 29th, 2021, 12:34 am

breaker's glider gun wrote:
June 28th, 2021, 10:46 pm
yujh wrote:
June 28th, 2021, 7:07 pm
breaker's glider gun wrote:
June 28th, 2021, 5:39 pm
2, Life live cell that makes birthed cells in range 5 instead birth as it.
Not possible yet.
:(

I wanted to make a blinker that mysteriosly dissapears after some time - a cell type two glider (pure black) flies nearby.
I don’t even understand what you mean, but golly only support range 1.
At range five, what? Where in range five?
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by wwei47 » June 29th, 2021, 10:54 am

wwei47 wrote:
June 28th, 2021, 9:23 pm
Does the no spaceships with S0123 in totalistic rules thing apply to B2 rules?
Repost because new page
Help me find high-period c/2 technology!
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Overview of periods: https://bit.ly/3LwE0I5
Most wanted periods: 76,116

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by LaundryPizza03 » June 29th, 2021, 11:23 pm

wwei47 wrote:
June 29th, 2021, 10:54 am
wwei47 wrote:
June 28th, 2021, 9:23 pm
Does the no spaceships with S0123 in totalistic rules thing apply to B2 rules?
Repost because new page
Yes. The proof for B3/S0123 (and any INT rule with all of S012acek3aijn4a) takes place at a cell that maximizes x+y and which maximizes y among such cells:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 10, rule = B3/S0123History
B$2B$3B$3BACD$3B3A$7B$8B$9B$10B$11B!
In the above figure, killing the white cell at (x,y) (necessary for the pattern to shrink) requires all four green cells at (x-1,y), (x-1,y-1), (x,y-1), and (x+1,y-1) to be on, but then the red cell at (x+1,y) turns on as well. The proof with B2 is similar, except with the red cell at (x,y+1):

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 10, rule = B2/S0123History
B$2B$3B.D$3BAC$3B3A$7B$8B$9B$10B$11B!

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by GUYTU6J » July 2nd, 2021, 5:46 am

The program XScreenSaver includes a "Cloud Life", for which the introduction says:
Generates cloud-like formations based on a variant of Conway's Life. The difference is that cells have a maximum age, after which they count as 3 for populating the next generation. This makes long-lived formations explode instead of just sitting there.
What made me amazed is that in the simulation a block turns into a pond, then evolves asymmetrically to a long barge before dying out. Bi-pond becomes a less symmetrical p4 oscillator.
Can we find a (probably HROT/LtL?) cellular automata to preproduce the behaviour?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by pzq_alex » July 20th, 2021, 11:33 pm

I know this question may be too general, but how to find a good rule?
\sum_{n=1}^\infty H_n/n^2 = \zeta(3)

How much of current CA technology can I redevelop "on a desert island"?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » July 21st, 2021, 12:56 am

pzq_alex wrote:
July 20th, 2021, 11:33 pm
I know this question may be too general, but how to find a good rule?
tutorials
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by pzq_alex » July 21st, 2021, 12:58 am

yujh wrote:
July 21st, 2021, 12:56 am
tutorials
https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Tutorials/Finding_rules is too general.
\sum_{n=1}^\infty H_n/n^2 = \zeta(3)

How much of current CA technology can I redevelop "on a desert island"?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by LaundryPizza03 » July 29th, 2021, 10:34 pm

pzq_alex wrote:
July 21st, 2021, 12:58 am
yujh wrote:
July 21st, 2021, 12:56 am
tutorials
https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Tutorials/Finding_rules is too general.
One common starting point is the B-heptomino in Conway's Game of Life. Usually, adding S4i and then toggling some of the other INT transitions makes B-like patterns more dynamic, like so:

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B2n3-q/S2-c3-ae4i
2bo$b3o$2obo!
You should be able to verify that this rule has an (18,12)c/67 blinker puffer, perhaps through apgsearch.

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 3, rule = B3-q4z5y/S234k5j
2b2o$b2o$2o!
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by GUYTU6J » August 3rd, 2021, 12:05 am

Where can I see a thorough description about the invention of and investigations in SnowLife (B3/S1237)?

It is not in MCell rules lexicon, and all I could find is that 1) it was added to the LifeWiki list in this edit by Apple Bottom and 2) someone claimed to be its creator in this post but has never been active since then.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bprentice » August 12th, 2021, 8:27 pm

A few weeks ago a post to the "Other Cellular Automata" board referenced an old rule. The rule had 3 states, used the Moore neighborhood and depended on the neighbor counts of all 3 states. I don't remember the rule's name and can't find the reference. Can someone please post the reference.

Brian Prentice

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by GUYTU6J » August 16th, 2021, 2:02 am

CG wrote:Should OCA:Symbiosis be considered a Neutronium variant of Immigration?
No, the three rules have more distinct features. From the rule table of Symbiosis, a dead cell does not turn on if it is surrounded by any number of live neighbouring cells with different color, while in Immigration the cell may be born. In Neutronium, there are additional rules about neighbour counts for the neutronium state.

Also, I have reverted your edit to LifeWiki talk page, which is not an appropriate place to ask this kind of basic question.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by ColorfulGabrielsp138 » August 18th, 2021, 6:04 am

Is this a sawtooth?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 11, rule = 23/36
3o$3bo$3bo$3bo7$11b3o!

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 21, rule = LifeColorful
11.E$10.3E$10.E.2E$13.E4$2.2B$.2B$2B$.2B15.2D$19.2D$18.2D$17.2D4$7.C$
7.2C.C$8.3C$9.C!
I have reduced the glider cost of quadratic growth to eight and probably to seven. Looking for conduits...

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by ColorfulGabrielsp138 » August 18th, 2021, 8:06 am

ColorfulGabrielsp138 wrote:
August 18th, 2021, 6:04 am
Is this a sawtooth?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 11, rule = 23/36
3o$3bo$3bo$3bo7$11b3o!
And is this an edge-repair spaceship?

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 13, rule = B3/S234iw
3o16b3o$o2bo15bo2bo$2b2o17b2o8$13b3o$13bo$14bo!

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 21, rule = LifeColorful
11.E$10.3E$10.E.2E$13.E4$2.2B$.2B$2B$.2B15.2D$19.2D$18.2D$17.2D4$7.C$
7.2C.C$8.3C$9.C!
I have reduced the glider cost of quadratic growth to eight and probably to seven. Looking for conduits...

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by kiho park » September 7th, 2021, 9:49 am

ColorfulGabrielsp138 wrote:
August 18th, 2021, 8:06 am
And is this an edge-repair spaceship?

Code: Select all

x = 23, y = 13, rule = B3/S234iw
3o16b3o$o2bo15bo2bo$2b2o17b2o8$13b3o$13bo$14bo!
Hmm.. Not really
Can small adjustable spaceships overrun the speed limit of (|x|+|y|)/P = 1?

## B0 rules are the best! ##

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by C28 » September 23rd, 2021, 8:10 am

2 questions:
1) does this ever stablize?

Code: Select all

x = 68, y = 63, rule = B2c3aijn4k/S2-k34cnqrt
b2o3bobob2ob2o3bo3bo2b2o3bo2bob2ob3o2bo2bo4b3obo2bo7bo$ob4obo2b2o2bo3b
7ob2ob4ob3o2b4o2b4o2b2ob3obob3o3bo$6o3b3ob2ob2ob6ob3ob2ob2obo2bo3b2o2b
4ob4o2bo3b6o$3ob2o2b2o3b7o3b3obo2b6o4bo5bo2bo3bobobobobo4b2o$b2ob3o4b
2ob5o3b2o7b4o2b3obo3bo2bobob2ob2o2bo2b3ob2o$o6b6o4bo2bo2b3o2b4o3b3o4b
ob3o4b2o2bobo2bo2b2o2bo$bobo3bo3b3o4b4o6b4ob3o12b5ob2obobo3bob2o$b4o3b
obo2bo2b4o2bobobo11b4o2b2obobobo5bob2obo2b2o$ob3o3b2o2bobo3bob3ob2o3b
2ob2ob3o2b2o3bob2obob4o4bo3bobo$bo4b4obo2bobo3b2o3b2ob3obo2bo2b2o2bo3b
o3b3obo2bobob3o3bo$2b3o2bo3bob2obo2bobo2b3ob3obobo2b6obob6obobo2b6o2b
2o$2b3o3bob4o2bobob2o2bob2o2bo2b2o5bob2o2b2ob3o13b2o$2obobob2o2bobo2b
o4bo2bo2bo2bob4ob2o2bo3bo3b2o2b2ob2o2b3ob4o$o7b3o2b2o2bo3b3obobo2b4ob
o3b4o4b2ob3ob3o3b6o$o2bob2o3b2o3b3obo2bo2bob2o2bo2bobo3b2o2bobob2o6b2o
2bobob4o$bo2b2o2b9ob3obob3obo2b2ob2o5bo2b6o2bo2b4ob6o$2obobob8o2bobob
o2bo4b3o2b3obo2b3o3b2o3bo2b4o2b4o$2o2bo5bob2ob3o4bo6b4o3b2o2bob2ob3ob
3ob4obob2ob2o2bo$o5bobobo2b4o2bob6obob2obo5b3o5bo2bobo5b2ob3ob2o$2bo2b
o2b3ob2o6bob2obo7bob2o2b7ob2ob2o2bobobo2b3o2b2o$2bobobo4bo4bo2b3obo2b
3ob2ob3ob2ob2o4bo4b2o2b3o4b4o$obo3b2o2bo5bob3obo3b7o3b2o2bo2b2o4b2ob2o
b3ob3o4bo$o2bo2bob3ob2ob2o6bo2b4ob2o6b3obobob2o2bo2b2o7b4o$3b2o2b2o4b
ob2o8b2ob2o2b4obobobo3bob5o7bo2bo3bo$5o4b3ob2ob3o5bob5obo2b4o2b2o2bob
2obobo2b2ob5o2b2o$bo2b6ob3o2bobo2b2o3bob3ob2o3b3obo3bo2b4o3bo8bo$obob
ob3obob3obob2o7b2o3bob2o2b5ob3obobo2bo2bobo2b3o2b2o$ob4o9bobobobo4bob
ob3ob6o6bo3b6ob3obo3b2o$2ob2o4bob7o2b4o2bo2b3ob4ob4o3bo2b4o2bob3o2b2o
bo2bo$3o3b2o6b2o2b7obob3o2bo5b3ob2o3b7obobob5ob2o$3bo2b2o3b2o3bo2b2o4b
4o2bob3o3bobob3o2bobobo2b3obo2b4obo$2ob5o5b3o3b2o2b3o3b2o2b2o2bo4b4o2b
3obo2b3o2b4ob3o$2b5ob3o2b2o3bob2o3bobob3ob4o5bo4b2obo2b3o2bo2bo4b2o$3o
b2ob5ob3o4b3o4b2obob3obobobob3ob2o2b4obob3obo2b4o$b2o2bo3bobo3b2ob2o3b
2o4b2ob3o2b6o2bob5o13bo$2o2bo4bo3b2ob2o2b2obo3b2o2b2o2bob2ob3obob2o3b
3ob3ob2o4bo$o3bo3bob2obob8obo2bo2b2ob3ob2o3bob3o2bo4b2ob3o4b4o$b4ob3o
2bo2bob3o2b4obob4obo6bob2o2bo3b4o6b2ob2obo$2b8o2bo2b2obo2b2o4b2obobo5b
ob2ob3obob2ob2o2b2o3bob4o$b2o2bo2bo2bo5bob2ob2o2bob2ob3o2b2ob5o4bobob
2o2b2o3b2obo2bo$o2bo3bo3b5ob2ob3o2bo3bo3bobo2b3o6bob2o3b2o2b3ob2o2b2o
$bo2b3o2b7ob2ob3o2b2o5bobob2o2b2o3bo2b2ob3ob2obob2o2b4o$2b3ob2obo4bo3b
o2bo2b2ob3o2b4o3b3o4b4o2b2obobobobo2bo$bo2b6o4b3ob6ob2ob3o2bobobob2ob
ob2ob2ob8ob3o2b3o$o2b6o2bo2bob2obobo2b4o2b2ob3o2b2obob2o4bo4b2o2bo4bo
2b2o$bob2o4bo3bo2bobo2b5obobo2b2o3b2obob4o2b2o2bo3b3ob2obobo$ob3obob5o
bob2ob2o3bo4b2obobobobo2bo7b6o3b4o3b2o$3b2o2bob2o4bobob3o2bo4bo3bob2o
bo3b2ob2ob2ob4o2bob2ob4obo$2o3bo3b2ob5o3b2o5bo3b8ob2o2b2o2bo2b2o3bobo
b2o4b2o$bo2bo2b2o2b2o2bob2o2bob2obobobo5bobo2bobobo2bobo2bob3ob3obob2o
$bo2bob3obo5bo3b2obobo3bo3bo2b2o2bo2bo3b3obo3bo4b2o2b2obo$b2ob4ob3o3b
obobobob2o2b3ob2ob2o2bobob2o3b2ob4ob4o2b2o2b3o$2b8ob2ob2obo2b2ob2ob2o
4bob2o2bobo2bob2ob3obo3b2o3bo2bob2o$ob2obo2bo2b3o2bo2bobo7bobo2bobo5b
3o2bob2ob4obo2b2ob2o2bo$bob2ob3obo2b2o2b3o4bo2bo4b2ob2ob6ob3obo3b2obo
2b2o4bo$b2o3bo4b3ob2o4bo2bob3ob4obobo2bob2obob3obo4bo2b2obob2obo$o4b3o
2b5o5b2o2bo5b2obob4obob2o2b2o2bobo3b2obob3o2b2o$2ob2o3bo3bob4o8bob2o2b
2ob2ob4ob2ob3ob3o3b7obo2bo$o2bobo2b4obo3bo2b4ob3obob4obob2o2bo3b3ob3o
2b2o3b3obob2o$2o2bob2ob2obob3ob3o7bob2o2b4ob3o5b2o3b8ob3obo$2ob3obob2o
bo3b3o2b2o2bobobo3bobob5o2bobo3bob2ob2obob4o2bo$2ob3ob2o3bobob2o7b3ob
3ob4o2b3o2bo7b2o7bobo2b2o$3bobob2ob2o4b2o3b4o3b2o2bo2b2o2bo3b4obo2b2o
2bo2b2obo4b2o!
2) can those river-like things be used as "construction arms"?
- Christopher D'Agostino

adopted father of the U-turner

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
9bo$8bobo$8bobo$9bo8$b3o$b3o$obo$2o!
the U-turner gallery
255P132
B3/S234z (Zlife)

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » September 23rd, 2021, 10:20 am

C28 wrote:
September 23rd, 2021, 8:10 am
2 questions:
1) does this ever stablize?

Code: Select all

snip
2) can those river-like things be used as "construction arms"?
For the first question I would rather say no, this rule is like cloudsdale by GUYTU6J but it makes more of those ‘rivers’ things (I don’t know how to call them) than it erases.
For the second I would say yes and no, you might find a puffer with weird speed out of it, but you can hardly do anything else with it since it only grows but not shrinks
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by affamatodidio » October 26th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Hello fellow people. I'm currently wondering how I would go about finding Pi conversions in specific rules. Is there a general way to think about these constructions? As I'm currently trying to find a T-eater in a different rule (B3/S2-i3-k) and the closest I have gotten to an eater - that is fast - is the following snippet:

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 12, rule = B3/S2-i3-k
27b3o$10b2o15bobo$10b2o15bobo3$3bob2o3bo10bo$b3ob2o2b3o7b6o$o17bo4bo$
b3ob2o12b3ob2o$3bobo15bobo$3bobo15bobo$4bo17bo!
As you can probably tell, it makes the block turn into a pi. I don't know how I would go about finding a reaction to create a block where the pi-heptomino currently is. This would be some sort of pi-to-block converter, if that helps.

Thank you for reading and any help is much appreciated.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by GUYTU6J » October 27th, 2021, 5:30 am

affamatodidio wrote:
October 26th, 2021, 5:16 pm
...I'm currently trying to find a T-eater in a different rule (B3/S2-i3-k) ...
As the rule is only two transitions from Life, I tried existing catalyses first. An eater 3 with alternative base works for that purpose:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 15, rule = B3/S2-i3-k
15bo$14b2o$b2o12bo$obo6b2o$obob2o2bo2bo$bo2bo4bobo$4bo5bo$3b2ob2o$bo2b
o2bo$b2o2bo4bo$6b5o$7bo$5bo4b3o$5b2o2bo2bo$10b2o!
As for the other question, as far as I know, there isn't any general program written for that purpose in INT rules. (If there is, be sure to tell me!) To hunt for possible catalysts/transparent reactions, simple enumeration of collisions by hand and observing carefully can sometimes work.
C28 wrote:
September 23rd, 2021, 8:10 am
2 questions:
[checkerboard agar with crystallographic defects]
2) can those river-like things be used as "construction arms"?
They are highly chaotic in nature, and I don't see how to tame them and send well-defined signals so as to construct things in an organized manner.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by wwei47 » October 27th, 2021, 8:35 am

GUYTU6J wrote:
October 27th, 2021, 5:30 am
As for the other question, as far as I know, there isn't any general program written for that purpose in INT rules. (If there is, be sure to tell me!)
I hacked dr for LeapLife before-maybe there's a way to generalize the hack for all isotropic rules?
Help me find high-period c/2 technology!
My guide: https://bit.ly/3uJtzu9
My c/2 tech collection: https://bit.ly/3qUJg0u
Overview of periods: https://bit.ly/3LwE0I5
Most wanted periods: 76,116

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by erictom333 » October 30th, 2021, 5:08 am

Does there exist a rule where every pattern has at least one predecessor, but some patterns have more than one predecessor?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by silversmith » October 31st, 2021, 9:24 am

erictom333 wrote:
October 30th, 2021, 5:08 am
Does there exist a rule where every pattern has at least one predecessor, but some patterns have more than one predecessor?
No, because if you have a rule where each pattern has at least one predecessor, then having one pattern with two predecessors would require n+1 predecessors in an area with n possible patterns, which according to the pigeonhole principle is impossible.
A simulator with the tools I couldn’t find elsewhere: https://www.silversimulations.com/caplayer/
Documentation:https://github.com/teraxtech/caplayer

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by EvinZL » October 31st, 2021, 6:20 pm

affamatodidio wrote:
October 26th, 2021, 5:16 pm
Hello fellow people. I'm currently wondering how I would go about finding Pi conversions in specific rules. Is there a general way to think about these constructions? As I'm currently trying to find a T-eater in a different rule (B3/S2-i3-k) and the closest I have gotten to an eater - that is fast - is the following snippet:

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 12, rule = B3/S2-i3-k
27b3o$10b2o15bobo$10b2o15bobo3$3bob2o3bo10bo$b3ob2o2b3o7b6o$o17bo4bo$
b3ob2o12b3ob2o$3bobo15bobo$3bobo15bobo$4bo17bo!
As you can probably tell, it makes the block turn into a pi. I don't know how I would go about finding a reaction to create a block where the pi-heptomino currently is. This would be some sort of pi-to-block converter, if that helps.

Thank you for reading and any help is much appreciated.

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S2-i3-k
5b2o$5b2o3$6b2o$bo4b2o$obo$2o$6bo$5b3o!

erictom333
Posts: 171
Joined: January 9th, 2019, 2:44 am

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by erictom333 » November 1st, 2021, 2:30 am

silversmith wrote:
October 31st, 2021, 9:24 am
erictom333 wrote:
October 30th, 2021, 5:08 am
Does there exist a rule where every pattern has at least one predecessor, but some patterns have more than one predecessor?
No, because if you have a rule where each pattern has at least one predecessor, then having one pattern with two predecessors would require n+1 predecessors in an area with n possible patterns, which according to the pigeonhole principle is impossible.
However, a pattern's predecessor can be larger than the pattern itself. For example, adding an arbitrarily distant dot to a pattern will not change its output (in a rule with no S0).
A proposed construction: A rule where, for every configuration of cells in the NW, N, NE, W and center of a neighborhood, there exists a configuration of cells in the E, SW, S and SE such that the cell is on in the next generation, and another such that it is off.

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bibunsekibun
Posts: 345
Joined: April 17th, 2021, 7:58 pm
Location: Japan

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bibunsekibun » November 1st, 2021, 2:48 am

Can this Replicator be (2,5)c/21 Spaceship?

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 4, rule = B34y/S23-e
b2o$obo$obo$2o!
sorry I can only speak Japanese, English is made by machine translation
I'm a fan of methuselahs

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silversmith
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by silversmith » November 1st, 2021, 10:43 am

erictom333 wrote:
November 1st, 2021, 2:30 am
However, a pattern's predecessor can be larger than the pattern itself. For example, adding an arbitrarily distant dot to a pattern will not change its output (in a rule with no S0).
A proposed construction: A rule where, for every configuration of cells in the NW, N, NE, W and center of a neighborhood, there exists a configuration of cells in the E, SW, S and SE such that the cell is on in the next generation, and another such that it is off.
Alternative problems arise if the predecessor of a pattern needs to be larger than the original pattern.

One is that two such patterns could be placed next to each other such that they share a neighborhood and would not have a predecessor.

Another is that a pattern could also be made where the outer cells are already set to specific values, such that this larger pattern does not have a predecessor.
Last edited by silversmith on December 6th, 2021, 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A simulator with the tools I couldn’t find elsewhere: https://www.silversimulations.com/caplayer/
Documentation:https://github.com/teraxtech/caplayer

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