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Thread for basic questions

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby toroidalet » July 14th, 2019, 5:43 pm

The script can be found at https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/slmake/blob/master/isotropic_metafier.py, but it requires LifeLib and the rest of slmake.
"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

-Terry Pratchett
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Naszvadi » July 15th, 2019, 12:03 pm

What are the smallest glider-based and xWSS-based spartan and non-spartan P1 binary logic gates?

Improvements are possible for this A and NOT B gate:
x = 45, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
13.C29.C$12.C2B27.C2B$11.B3C26.B3C$10.4B26.4B$3.C5.4B20.D5.4B$2.2BC3.
4B20.2BD3.4B$2.3CB.4B21.3DB.4B$3.7B23.7B$4.6B24.6B$4.5B25.5B$3.6B24.
6B$2.4B2.B2A21.4B2.B2A$.4B3.BA.A19.4B3.BA.A$4B7.A18.4B7.A$3B8.2A16.4B
8.2A$28.4B$27.4B$26.4B$25.4B$24.4B$23.4B$22.4B$21.4B$20.4B$19.4B$18.
4B$17.4B$16.4B$15.4B$14.4B$13.D3B26.D$12.D3B26.D2B$11.B3D26.B3D$10.4B
26.4B$3.C5.4B20.D5.4B$2.2BC3.4B20.2BD3.4B$2.3CB.4B21.3DB.4B$3.7B23.7B
$4.6B24.6B$4.5B25.5B$3.6B24.6B$2.4B2.B2A21.4B2.B2A$.4B3.BA.A19.4B3.BA
.A$4B7.A18.4B7.A$3B8.2A17.3B8.2A!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Moosey » July 15th, 2019, 12:38 pm

Naszvadi wrote:What are the smallest glider-based and xWSS-based spartan and non-spartan P1 binary logic gates?

Improvements are possible for this A and NOT B gate:
x = 45, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory
13.C29.C$12.C2B27.C2B$11.B3C26.B3C$10.4B26.4B$3.C5.4B20.D5.4B$2.2BC3.
4B20.2BD3.4B$2.3CB.4B21.3DB.4B$3.7B23.7B$4.6B24.6B$4.5B25.5B$3.6B24.
6B$2.4B2.B2A21.4B2.B2A$.4B3.BA.A19.4B3.BA.A$4B7.A18.4B7.A$3B8.2A16.4B
8.2A$28.4B$27.4B$26.4B$25.4B$24.4B$23.4B$22.4B$21.4B$20.4B$19.4B$18.
4B$17.4B$16.4B$15.4B$14.4B$13.D3B26.D$12.D3B26.D2B$11.B3D26.B3D$10.4B
26.4B$3.C5.4B20.D5.4B$2.2BC3.4B20.2BD3.4B$2.3CB.4B21.3DB.4B$3.7B23.7B
$4.6B24.6B$4.5B25.5B$3.6B24.6B$2.4B2.B2A21.4B2.B2A$.4B3.BA.A19.4B3.BA
.A$4B7.A18.4B7.A$3B8.2A17.3B8.2A!

Here’s a non-spartan AND gate, but it’s likely useless and suboptimal.
x = 28, y = 33, rule = B3/S23
8bo11bo$8b3o8bobo$11bo7bobo$10b2o6b2ob3o$24bo$18b2ob3o$18b2obo8$26b2o$
26bo$24bobo$3bo20b2o$4bo$o3bo$b4o8$13bo$12b3o$12bob2o$13b3o$13b2o!

This eaters-only and gate works, however it’s probably a pain to tease out the glider, which is 1hd from the input heading out.
x = 52, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
o16bo19bo$3o14b3o17b3o$3bo16bo8bo10bo8bo$2b2o15b2o8bobo7b2o8bobo$29b2o
18b2o4$8b2o35b2o$7b2o35b2o$9bo36bo$4b2o15b2o18b2o$5bo16bo19bo$2b3o14b
3o17b3o$2bo16bo19bo!


Of course, it would be possible to make a giant setup where a pseudoheisenburp detects one of the Gs and launches salvos that push the output glider a nice distance out if it exists, and otherwise hit eaters, however that would be beyond overthinking it and it surely isn’t the smallest AND gate, spartan or otherwise.

XOR or OR would be hard since they have to output gliders on the exact same lane with the same timing from different inputs. ANDNOT and AND are probably the smallest ones for p1.
I am a prolific creator of many rather pathetic googological functions

My CA rules can be found here

Also, the tree game
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 16th, 2019, 8:48 am

dvgrn wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:Also, I don't think Golly would handle an oscillator with the largest known prime period.

I don't think Golly will have any more trouble than it has with period 2^86,243-1, really. Sure, you won't be able to run it through a full cycle, but you'll be able to see all the circuitry working and do some simple math to confirm the period.

This turned out to be another insurmountable opportunity (sigh)...

If I've done everything right -- someone should please check -- then the following is an oscillator with a period equal to M82589933, the largest prime number currently known. This is Mersenne prime #51, or maybe some number slightly higher than 51, they're not sure yet. M82589933 has 24,862,048 decimal digits.

Oddly enough, the pattern is less than 16K in macrocell format, and 4,441 bytes as an .mc.gz.

It would be over 20 gigabytes in ASCII format -- the pattern is 147,741 by 143,247.

Probably don't try to save it as RLE, either...

[M2] (golly 3.2)
#R B3/S23
$$$$$$$....*..*$
4 0 0 0 1
$$$$$$$*$
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$$$$$......**$......**$
4 0 0 0 29
$$$$$...**$..*.***$..*....*$
4 0 0 31 0
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13 0 0 19 40
14 0 0 21 41
$$$$.......*$
.....**$......*$......*$.......*$
4 0 43 0 44
$.......*$......*$......*$.....**$
4 0 46 0 0
5 0 45 0 47
$$$.......*$*......*$*$*.*$.**$
$$$*$*$
$$*$*$
....**$....**$$$$......*$......**$
4 49 50 51 52
$$$**$*$*$
4 0 0 54 0
$*$*$
$$$$$$.**$*.*$
4 56 0 57 0
$$.....**$.....**$
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$.......*$
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$$$....**$...*..*$....**$......**$......*$
$$$$$*$***$...*$
...**.*$...*.**$.......*$....**$..***.**$.*$..***.**$....*.**$
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*$*$$.....**$....*.*$....*$...**$
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.**$$$$.**$*.*$
.*$*.*$.*$*$
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$$$$*$.*$*$
....**$
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$$$$$...*$..*.*$..*.*..*$
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$$$$$$$*...*$
*..*.*$...*.*$***.*$..*$...*$*...*$...**$
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$$......**$......**$
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$$$$$$$.......*$
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$$$$.**$*.*$*$*$
$$$$$$$...**$
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.....*$...***$..*$..**$
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$$$*$*$$$....*$
**.*.*$.*.*.*$.*.*.**$.**..*$*....*$*.***$.**$
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....*$.***$.*$
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..**$..*$*.*$**....**$......*$....*.*$....**$
$$....**$....*.*$......*$......**$
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$$$$.....**$......*$......*$.......*$
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$$$$$.....**$.....**$
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$$....**.*$.....*.*$.....*$...***$..*...**$..****$
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*$
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$$$...**$...**..*$.......*$...****$...*..*$
$$$**$.***$....*$**..*$*.*.**$
......*$.......*$$$$......**$*.....**$*$
*.*.*$*.*.*$...*$
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$$$$$$.**$.*$
..***$....*$$$$.......*$.......*$......**$
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...*$.***$*$**$
$$$$**$.*$
$.**....*$.**...*$......**$$......**$.....*$......**$
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$$$$$$**.**$.*.**$
.*$**$..**$**..*$.*.**$*..*$...*$***$
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$$$$$*$.*$.*$
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$$$$$..*$.*.*$.*.*..**$
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$$$$$....**$....*$......*$
....****$$..******$.*$.**..**$.....**$
..*****$..*$.....***$.....*$$**$*..*.**$..**.**$
$$*$*....**$.....**$
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.*$.*$*.**$*.*..*$*...**$**$
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$$$$**$*$.***$...*$
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$$$$....**$.....*$...*$...**$
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$$$$$$.......*$.......*$
$$$$$$*$..*$
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.**...*$*..****$**.*$.*.*.**$.*.*.**$**.*$...*$...*.*$
$$$....**$....**$
....**$$$$......*$......**$
$...**$...*$**.*...*$.*.**..*$.*$.*.....*$.**$
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.....*.*$.....**$
.**$*$*$***$...*$..**$
$$$*$*$$*$*$
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$$$......*$......**$
..*.****$..*$**.*****$.*.*$...*.**$..**.**$
$$$.....**$.....**$
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..*$..******$**...*$..*$.**$$$...*..*$
$*$*$$.....**$.**..**$.*$..******$
...*****$$...****$...*..*$$$.....**$.....**$
**$.*..****$....*..*$$$..**$*..*$**$
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$$$$..**$...*$***$*$
$$.....**$.....**$$$...*..*$...****$
$$**$*..*$..**$$$....*..*$
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......*$......**$
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*$$*$*....**$.....**$
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.*$.*$*.**$*.*..*$*...**$**....**$......*$
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......**$......*$$$$$**$.*$
.*.*$..**$
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**.**..*$.*.*.*.*$.*.*.*.*$..**.*.*$......*$$$.**$
$*$
.**$
4 295 296 297 0
....**$....*$.....***$.......*$$$$.......*$
$$$$$$**$.*.....*$
.......*$......**$
.......*$$$$$.......*$....*..*$....****$
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$$**$..*$.**$......**$.......*$.....*$
$....**$....**$
.....***$$...****$...*..*$$$.....**$.....**$
**$.*$$$$..**$*..*$**$
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$$$$$$....**$.....*$
..****.*$..*..*.*$.....*.*$......**$$$$.....**$
.....*.*$......**$$$.....*$...***$..*$..**$
.....**$
4 320 321 322 323
*..*$.*.**$.*.*$.*.*$..*$
$.**$.**$
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*$$$....*$**.*.*$.*.*.*$.*.*.**$.**..*$
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**$*$.***$...*$
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$......**$......**$
$$.......*$.......*$.....*.*$.....**$
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$$*$
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*....*$*.***$.**$......*$......**$
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$$$$......**$......*$$.......*$
$$$$$$*$*$
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...**.**$...**.*$......*$......**$....**$...*..**$...**.*$....*..*$
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....*$.....***$.......*$
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$$....*$....***$.......*$......**$
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..*$**$
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*$**$
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$$$.**$..*$..*.**$...*..*$....**$
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$.....***$.....*$.......*$......**$.**$..*$**$
.*$**$
4 373 374 0 0
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$$$......**$......**$
$.......*$$...**$...**..*$$...**$...*$
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.....*$....**$
4 0 380 0 0
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.....*$.....***$$.....**$.....**$$$......*$
.**$*..*$*.**$*.*$*.*$*.**$*$*$
......**$*$*$*.**$*.*..*$..*.**$..*$.**$
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$$$$$$.....**$.....**$
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....*$..*****$.*.....*$..***..*$.....*.*$..****$..*...**$...***$
$$$$*$*$
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$$$$$....**$....*$.....***$
$$$$.*$*.*$*.*$*.**$
.......*$$$$$$$...**..*$
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.....*$.....*.*$....**.*$
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.****.**$.....*$.**..*.*$.**...**$
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..*$..*$**$......*$......**$
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6 398 411 414 417
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$$$$$$$......**$
$$$$$$*$***$
.....*$.....*$....**.*$....*..*$.....**$.......*$.......*$....**.*$
...*$***$$***$..*...**$**....**$
4 420 421 422 423
$$$$$$$.**$
$.......*$.......*$
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....**.*$
*$$$.......*$$.....***$.....*$
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$$$......*$....***$...*$....***$......**$
$.....*.*$.....**$$$......**$.....*$......**$
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**$**$
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$$$$$$......**$......**$
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.***$*$**$
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$$$$....**$.....*$.....*.*$......**$
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$$$$$....*$...*.*$..*.*$
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$$$$......*$....****$...*$...*..**$
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$$$$$*$
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...**$
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*$$$$......*$......*$......**$
$$$.......*$....*.*$....**.*$.......*$.......*$
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$$$$$$....**$....*.*$
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$$.....**$....*.*$....*$.**.*$..*.*.**$..*.*.**$
....*$....**$$$$$.....**$.....**$
4 508 509 510 511
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$$$.......*$
$$$*$*$*.**$.*..*$..**$
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.......*$.......*$......**$.......*$.......*$
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.*.**$.*.*.*$.*.*.*$..**.***$....*$***.*..*$..**...*$
$...**$*...*$*...*.*$.....**$*$*$
$$$$...*$...***$......*$.....**$
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.......*$......*$......**$
**$
.**$.**$
4 526 527 0 528
$$$$$..*...**$.*.*...*$*.*...*$
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....**$....**$
$$$$$.....**$.....*$...*.*$
...**$$$$$......*$.....*.*$......*$
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$$$$$.**$.**$
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$$.......*$.......*$
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$$$.....**$.....*$**.....*$*.....**$*$
.....*$.......*$$$...**$..*.*$..*$*.*$
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*.*.**$*.*.**$*.*$..****$**...*$..**$..*$....*$
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7 250 561 250 250
5 0 0 387 0
6 388 563 390 390
4 0 225 3 0
5 215 344 224 565
$$$$$.......*$.......*$..**$
$.......*$.......*$$$$.....**$....*.*$
..*$*.*$..*.**$.**.*$....*$....**$
4 0 567 568 569
$$$$$*$$.*$
**$$**$**$
4 571 0 572 0
....*$.**.*$..*.*.**$..*.*.**$.**.*$.*..****$..**...*$....**$
....*$......*$.....**$
4 574 59 575 0
4 236 351 0 527
5 570 573 576 577
6 563 0 566 578
5 245 188 191 195
$$$$$$...**$.*..*$
4 0 0 581 0
.**.*.*$...*.**$...*$.***$*$**$
4 583 377 0 378
5 582 352 584 386
5 231 220 224 565
$$$$**$*...**$*.*..*$*.**$
.....*$....**$$$$.......*$.......*$..**$
.*$.*.....*$*......*$$$$.....**$....*.*$
4 587 588 589 569
5 590 573 576 577
6 580 585 586 591
7 564 579 250 592
8 419 560 562 593
$$$**$.*$
4 595 0 0 0
5 0 0 596 0
$$$$..*$*.*$.**$
$$$$$$.......*$......*$
......**$$$$$$.......*$.......*$
4 598 599 0 600
$$$$$.*$**$
$$$......**$.......*$.......*$*....***$*...*$
$$$.**$.**$$$**$
4 602 0 603 604
$*.....**$.....*.*$.*...*$**..**$$**$**$
4 606 0 0 0
....****$.......*$....***$...*$....****$......*$
..*$.**$.*$.*$*$
4 608 609 0 0
5 601 605 607 610
6 597 0 611 0
$......**$......*$
$.....**$*.....*$*...*$**..**$$....**$....**$
4 613 614 0 199
$$$..**$...*$...*.**$**.*..*$.*.**$
.*$**$.......*$.......*$$$*.....**$*.....**$
$$*$.*$.*$.*.**$.*.*$.*.*$
4 616 0 617 618
$......**$.....*.*$.....*$....**$
4 620 0 0 0
$......**$......*$$$.......*$.......*$
.*.**$**..*$..**$**$.*$$*$
4 622 623 0 0
5 615 619 621 624
6 625 0 0 0
7 612 0 626 0
$$$$$.....**$......*$....*$
....**$$....**$....**$
4 0 628 0 629
$$$$$$$..**$
...*$...*.**$**.*..*$.*.**$.*$**$.......*$.......*$
$$$$$$*$.*$
4 631 0 632 633
$$$$$......**$.....*.*$.....*$
4 635 547 89 0
$$*.....**$*.....**$$......**$......*$
.*$.*.**$.*.*$.*.*$.*.**$**..*$..**$**$
.*$$*$
4 637 638 426 639
5 630 634 636 640
6 641 0 0 0
7 642 0 642 0
8 627 0 643 0
7 250 592 250 592
8 254 645 254 645
8 643 0 643 0
9 594 644 646 647
9 646 647 646 647
10 648 0 649 0
10 649 0 649 0
11 650 0 651 0
11 651 0 651 0
12 652 0 653 0
12 653 0 653 0
13 654 0 655 0
13 655 0 655 0
14 656 0 657 0
14 657 0 657 0
15 319 658 282 659
15 282 659 282 659
16 660 0 661 0
16 661 0 661 0
17 662 0 663 0
4 0 225 0 125
5 215 220 346 665
6 240 248 211 666
5 231 220 346 665
6 248 248 668 668
5 375 239 0 0
6 240 670 0 0
6 670 670 0 0
7 667 669 671 672
7 669 669 672 672
8 673 674 0 0
8 674 674 0 0
9 257 258 675 676
9 258 258 676 676
10 261 262 677 678
10 262 262 678 678
11 265 266 679 680
11 266 266 680 680
12 269 270 681 682
12 270 270 682 682
13 683 684 0 0
13 684 684 0 0
14 277 278 685 686
14 278 278 686 686
15 687 688 0 0
15 688 688 0 0
16 689 690 0 0
16 690 690 0 0
17 691 692 0 0
4 0 0 0 426
5 231 220 346 694
4 587 380 230 0
$$**$..*$.**$
4 0 0 697 0
5 696 0 698 0
6 580 585 695 699
$$$$.....**$.....*$.......*$
4 0 0 0 701
5 375 702 0 0
$$$$....**$....**$
$....**.*$....**.*$$$..*..*$..****$
$$$.**.**$..*.**$*.*$*.******$.*$
....****$....*$......*$.....**$**$.*$*$
4 704 705 706 707
$*$..*$.**$$$$*$
4 709 0 131 0
.*.****$..**..*$
4 711 0 0 0
5 708 710 712 0
6 703 713 0 0
7 669 700 672 714
8 674 715 0 0
7 642 0 0 0
8 717 0 0 0
9 646 647 716 718
10 649 0 719 0
11 651 0 720 0
12 653 0 721 0
13 722 0 0 0
14 657 0 723 0
15 688 724 0 0
16 725 0 0 0
17 726 0 0 0
18 291 664 693 727
19 0 181 0 728

EDIT: Patched quickly to remove an extra nine powers of two. It can be done better, to cut the macrocell size by another 1K or so and reduce the bounding box a little more. Not sure I'll get around to doing that, though.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Macbi » July 16th, 2019, 8:59 am

Save that file as a .mc. Don't try to paste it into Golly!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 16th, 2019, 9:37 am

Macbi wrote:Save that file as a .mc. Don't try to paste it into Golly!

Ctrl+Shift+O (or File > Open from Clipboard) should work fine. Generally I'd advise everyone to get used to Ctrl+Shift+O when moving patterns from the forums to Golly. It automatically clears the universe and changes the rule. Depending on settings, pasting into an existing universe can get you in trouble sometimes.

Anyway, reviewing the math in my head after posting the above, I realized that a factor of 2^9 (the base loop period) had somehow fallen out of my head between late last night and early this morning. Luckily it's a trivial fix. The pattern above has been updated.

As it stands, the period-512 base loop is about to send the glider that makes it through 41294962 quadri-Snarks.

Here's how I tested the pattern:

Population without base loop glider, before the glider goes through the quadri-Snarks:
2890697941

Population without base loop glider, after the glider goes through the quadri-Snarks:
3138467713

Number of quadri-Snarks:
(3138467713-2890697941)/6 = 41294962
-- because the population goes up by 6 for every quadri-Snark.

Period of the reset gun:
2^( 41294962 * 2 ) * 2^9 = 2^82589933

The reset gun speeds up the base loop by one tick, so

2^82589933-1

(?)

Here are the scripts I used to build this monstrosity. The first script builds any size and shape of period-multiplier loop you want, with the exit point adjacent to the entrance point in the upper right corner. The 32x64 base tiles are made up of two connected quadri-Snarks.

import golly as g

g.setalgo("HashLife")
g.new("lotsaquadris")

input = g.getstring("Enter space-delimited x and y values for 32x64 quadri-Snark tiles","4613 2236")
if input == "" or input.find(" ")<0:
  g.exit("Invalid input.")
xandy = input.split(" ")
repsx, repsy = int(xandy[0]), int(xandy[1])

# [4613, 2236, 41295020, 53.5]
#   (there are 58 too many quadri-Snarks in this structure --
#    we only want (82589933-9)/2 = 41294962)
# In the first working oscillator,
#   pop at T=0 is          2890697941
#   pop at T=2808630272 is 3138467713
# (3138467713-2890697941)/6 =41294962

basepat = g.parse("""o27b2obo3$29bo$27b3o$10b2o14bo$10bo15b2o$11b3o$13bo3$12b2ob2o$10bo2bob
2o$10b2o$23b2o$15bo2bo4b2o$5b2o2bo5b4o$4bob4o2bo$4bo7b7o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo
$o2bobo6bo$2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o$19bo6bobo2bo$
13bo2bo3b7ob2o$13b7o7bo$19bo2b4obo$13b4o5bo2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo$7b2o$20b2o$
15b2obo2bo$15b2ob2o3$18bo$18b3o$4b2o15bo$5bo14b2o$2b3o$2bo3$ob2o27bo$o
bo2bo25bo$4b2o$23b2o$o22b2o4bo$o5bo2b2o18b3o$3bo2b4obo$4o7bo17b3o$o3b
7ob2o15bo$3bo6bobo2bo$3b2o2b2obo3b2o4b2ob2o$7b2ob2o4b2o3bob2o2b2o$16bo
2bobo6bo$2bo15b2ob7o3bo$3o17bo7b4o$20bob4o2bo$3o18b2o2bo5bo$2bo4b2o22b
o$7b2o$26b2o$o25bo2bobo!""")

leftedge = g.parse("""34b2obo3$35bo$33b3o$32bo$32b2o23$4b2o$5bo$3bo19b2o$3b2o18bo2bo$b2o3bo
14bobob2o$o2b4o14b2obo$2obo20bo$bobob2o5b2o10b3o$bobob2o5b2o13bo$2obo
22b2o$3bo$3bobo$4b2o$11b2o$11bo25bo$8b2obo3b2o20bo$6bo2bob2o2b2o$6b2ob
o19b2o$9bo5b2o12b2o4bo$9b2o5bo18b3o$14bo$14b2o19b3o$35bo2$26b2ob2o$22b
2o3bob2o2b2o$22bo2bobo6bo$24b2ob7o3bo$26bo7b4o$26bob4o2bo$27b2o2bo5bo$
37bo2$32b2o$32bo2bobo!""") # width = 38, height = 64

upperleftcorner = g.parse("""6$36b2o$36bo2$34b4o$34bo$37bo$37bo2$32b2o$32bo2bobo!""") # width = 38, height = 16

upperedge = g.parse("""6bo2b2o$6b4obo$11bo$4b7ob2o$3bo6bobo2bo$3b2o2b2obo3b2o$7b2ob2o18b2o$
30bo$o$o27b4o$28bo$3o28bo$2bo4b2o22bo$7b2o$26b2o$o25bo2bobo!""") # width = 32, height = 16

upperrightcorner = g.parse("""6bo2b2o$6b4obo$11bo$4b7ob2o$3bo6bobo2bo$3b2o2b2obo3b2o$7b2ob2o59b2o$
72bo$o69bo5b2o$o69b2o5bo$77bob2o$3o67b2o2b2obo2bo$2bo4b2o61b2o3bob2o$
7b2o39b2o25bo$48bo25b2o$o28b2o19bo30b2o!""") # width = 87, height = 16

rightedge = g.parse("""o26bo2bo18b2o30bobo$27b2obobo14bo3b2o30bo$29bob2o14b4o2bo29bob2o$29bo
20bob2o19b2o5b2obobo$27b3o10b2o5b2obobo20b2o5b2obobo$10b2o14bo13b2o5b
2obobo30bob2o$10bo15b2o22bob2o10b2o14b4o2bo$11b3o36bo12bobo14bo3b2o$
13bo34bobo12bo18b2o$48b2o12b2o19bo$41b2o38bo$12b2ob2o25bo38b2o$10bo2bo
b2o20b2o3bob2o$10b2o25b2o2b2obo2bo$23b2o19bob2o$15bo2bo4b2o12b2o5bo$5b
2o2bo5b4o18bo5b2o$4bob4o2bo26bo$4bo7b7o19b2o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo$o2bobo6bo$
2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o9b2o$19bo6bobo2bo9bo$13bo2b
o3b7ob2o6b2o5bo$13b7o7bo8bo5b2o$19bo2b4obo5b2obo$13b4o5bo2b2o6bo2bob2o
2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo18b2obo3b2o$7b2o29bo$20b2o16b2o$15b2obo2bo9b2o$15b2ob2o
10bobo$30bo$27b2obo$18bo9bobob2o5b2o$18b3o7bobob2o5b2o$4b2o15bo5b2obo$
5bo14b2o5bo2b4o14b2o$2b3o23b2o3bo14bobo$2bo27b2o18bo$30bo19b2o$32bo$ob
2o27b2o$obo2bo$4b2o2$o$o5bo2b2o$3bo2b4obo$4o7bo$o3b7ob2o$3bo6bobo2bo$
3b2o2b2obo3b2o$7b2ob2o59b2o$72bo$2bo67bo5b2o$3o67b2o5bo$77bob2o$3o67b
2o2b2obo2bo$2bo4b2o61b2o3bob2o$7b2o39b2o25bo$48bo25b2o$o28b2o19bo30b2o
!""") # width = 87, height = 64

lowerrightcorner = g.parse("""o26bo2bo18b2o30bobo$27b2obobo14bo3b2o30bo$29bob2o14b4o2bo29bob2o$29bo
20bob2o19b2o5b2obobo$27b3o10b2o5b2obobo20b2o5b2obobo$10b2o14bo13b2o5b
2obobo30bob2o$10bo15b2o22bob2o10b2o14b4o2bo$11b3o36bo12bobo14bo3b2o$
13bo34bobo12bo18b2o$48b2o12b2o19bo$41b2o38bo$12b2ob2o25bo38b2o$10bo2bo
b2o20b2o3bob2o$10b2o25b2o2b2obo2bo$23b2o19bob2o$15bo2bo4b2o12b2o5bo$5b
2o2bo5b4o18bo5b2o$4bob4o2bo26bo$4bo7b7o19b2o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo$o2bobo6bo$
2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o$19bo6bobo2bo$13bo2bo3b7ob
2o$13b7o7bo$19bo2b4obo$13b4o5bo2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo$7b2o$20b2o$15b2obo2bo$
15b2ob2o5$4b2o$5bo$2b3o$2bo2$25bo$ob2o21b3o$obo2bo22bo$4b2o21b2o2$o$o$
3bo$4o34b2ob2o$38b2obo2bo$bo41b2o$2o28b2o$30b2o4bo2bo$36b4o$42bo$38b5o
$38bo$40bo$27b2ob2o7b2o$23b2o3bob2o2b2o$23bo2bobo6bo$25b2ob7o$27bo$27b
ob4o$28b2o2bo!""") # width = 87, height = 67
# (sticks out 6 farther than it has to, for consistency with side pieces)

loweredge = g.parse("""o27b2obo3$29bo$27b3o$10b2o14bo$10bo15b2o$11b3o$13bo3$12b2ob2o$10bo2bob
2o$10b2o$23b2o$15bo2bo4b2o$5b2o2bo5b4o$4bob4o2bo$4bo7b7o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo
$o2bobo6bo$2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o$19bo6bobo2bo$
13bo2bo3b7ob2o$13b7o7bo$19bo2b4obo$13b4o5bo2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo$7b2o$20b2o$
15b2obo2bo$15b2ob2o3$18bo$18b3o$4b2o15bo$5bo14b2o$2b3o$2bo3$ob2o27bo$o
bo2bo25bo$4b2o$23b2o$o22b2o4bo$o28b3o$3bo$4o27bo$31bo$bo$2o18b2ob2o$
16b2o3bob2o2b2o$16bo2bobo6bo$18b2ob7o$20bo$20bob4o$21b2o2bo!""") # width = 32, height = 60

lowerleftcorner = g.parse("""34b2obo3$35bo$33b3o$32bo$32b2o23$4b2o$5bo$3bo19b2o$3b2o18bo2bo$b2o3bo
14bobob2o$o2b4o14b2obo$2obo20bo$bobob2o5b2o10b3o$bobob2o5b2o13bo$2obo
22b2o$3bo$3bobo$4b2o$11b2o$11bo25bo$8b2obo3b2o20bo$6bo2bob2o2b2o$6b2ob
o19b2o$9bo5b2o12b2o4bo$9b2o5bo18b3o$14bo$14b2o21bo$37bo2$26b2ob2o$22b
2o3bob2o2b2o$22bo2bobo6bo$24b2ob7o$26bo$26bob4o$27b2o2bo!""") # width = 38, height = 60

upperrowpat = upperleftcorner
middlerowpat = leftedge
lowerrowpat = lowerleftcorner

for i in range(repsx):
  upperrowpat = g.join(upperrowpat,g.transform(upperedge,38+i*32,0))
  middlerowpat = g.join(middlerowpat,g.transform(basepat,38+i*32,0))
  lowerrowpat = g.join(lowerrowpat,g.transform(loweredge,38+i*32,0))
  g.show(str(i))
upperrowpat = g.join(upperrowpat, g.transform(upperrightcorner, 38+repsx*32,0))
middlerowpat = g.join(middlerowpat, g.transform(rightedge, 38+repsx*32,0))
lowerrowpat = g.join(lowerrowpat,g.transform(lowerrightcorner, 38+repsx*32,0))

g.putcells(upperrowpat)
for i in range(repsy):
  g.putcells(middlerowpat,0,16+i*64)
  g.show(str(i))
  if i%16==0:
    g.fit()
    g.update()
g.putcells(lowerrowpat,0,16+repsy*64)

If you try running it with the default settings (which rebuild the quadri-Snark chain for the M82589933 oscillator) be prepared to wait for a few hours. Lifelib would have been much faster, but there was no particular hurry.

The second script just looked for nearly-square quadri-Snark chains with about the right number of quadri-Snarks. I aimed a little high, because I wanted to remove a few quadri-Snarks in the corner to make a little room for the drive gun.

import golly as g

s=""
for y in range (2271-500,2271+500):
  g.show(str(y))
  for x in range (4542-500,4542+500):
    v=4*x*y+4*x+8*y+8
    if abs(v-82589933/2)<256:
      s+=str([x,y,v,v-82589933.0/2])+"\n"
g.setclipstr(s)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Naszvadi » July 17th, 2019, 4:14 am

Moosey wrote:...
Of course, it would be possible to make a giant setup where a pseudoheisenburp detects one of the Gs and launches salvos that push the output glider a nice distance out if it exists, and otherwise hit eaters, however that would be beyond overthinking it and it surely isn’t the smallest AND gate, spartan or otherwise.

XOR or OR would be hard since they have to output gliders on the exact same lane with the same timing from different inputs. ANDNOT and AND are probably the smallest ones for p1.


Spartan and small (suboptimal) AND gate for gliders that needs only one G-to-LWSS:
x = 17, y = 72, rule = LifeHistory
5.C$6.C6.C2.C$4.3C5.C$12.C3.C$12.4C$2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A9.2A$11.A$12.3A$
14.A9$5.D$6.D6.C2.C$4.3D5.C$12.C3.C$12.4C$2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A9.2A$11.A$
12.3A$14.A9$5.C$6.C6.D2.D$4.3C5.D$12.D3.D$12.4D$2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A9.2A$
11.A$12.3A$14.A9$5.D$6.D6.D2.D$4.3D5.D$12.D3.D$12.4D$2.2A$.A.A$.A$2A
9.2A$11.A$12.3A$14.A!


Extending my questions: parallel glider paths must be disjoint and must fit to smallest stable right angle glider reflector (currently it is Snark)! The trivial 2G+2Eaters AND gate violates this constraint.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby calcyman » July 17th, 2019, 6:15 am

Naszvadi wrote:Extending my questions: parallel glider paths must be disjoint and must fit to smallest stable right angle glider reflector (currently it is Snark)! The trivial 2G+2Eaters AND gate violates this constraint.


Are we talking about the same AND gate? This ancient one seems to satisfy your constraint:

Code: Select all
x = 28, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
20bo$19bo$o18b3o$3o$3bo$2b2o3$26b2o$26b2o10$2b2o$3bo$3o$o$20b3o$20bo$
21bo!
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby calcyman » July 17th, 2019, 7:09 am

dvgrn wrote:Here are the scripts I used to build this monstrosity. The first script builds any size and shape of period-multiplier loop you want, with the exit point adjacent to the entrance point in the upper right corner. The 32x64 base tiles are made up of two connected quadri-Snarks.

[...]

If you try running it with the default settings (which rebuild the quadri-Snark chain for the M82589933 oscillator) be prepared to wait for a few hours. Lifelib would have been much faster, but there was no particular hurry.


I converted this very lazily into a lifelib script by doing the following:

  • Creating a silly object called 'g' which implements [the relevant subset of] Golly's functions in terms of their lifelib equivalents;
  • Removing the calls to g.fit and g.update (which have no analogues in lifelib);
  • Adding a call at the end to save the pattern as a macrocell file.

import lifelib

repsx, repsy = 4613, 2236

class PseudoGolly(object):

    def __init__(self, lt):

        self.lt = lt
        self.currlayer = lt.pattern("")

    def parse(self, rle):

        return self.lt.pattern(rle)

    def show(self, msg):

        print(msg)

    def join(self, *args):

        x = self.lt.pattern("")
        for a in args:
            x += a
        return x

    def transform(self, p, *args):

        return p.__call__(*args)

    def putcells(self, p, *args):

        self.currlayer += p.__call__(*args)


sess = lifelib.load_rules("b3s23")
g = PseudoGolly(sess.lifetree(n_layers=1))


basepat = g.parse("""o27b2obo3$29bo$27b3o$10b2o14bo$10bo15b2o$11b3o$13bo3$12b2ob2o$10bo2bob
2o$10b2o$23b2o$15bo2bo4b2o$5b2o2bo5b4o$4bob4o2bo$4bo7b7o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo
$o2bobo6bo$2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o$19bo6bobo2bo$
13bo2bo3b7ob2o$13b7o7bo$19bo2b4obo$13b4o5bo2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo$7b2o$20b2o$
15b2obo2bo$15b2ob2o3$18bo$18b3o$4b2o15bo$5bo14b2o$2b3o$2bo3$ob2o27bo$o
bo2bo25bo$4b2o$23b2o$o22b2o4bo$o5bo2b2o18b3o$3bo2b4obo$4o7bo17b3o$o3b
7ob2o15bo$3bo6bobo2bo$3b2o2b2obo3b2o4b2ob2o$7b2ob2o4b2o3bob2o2b2o$16bo
2bobo6bo$2bo15b2ob7o3bo$3o17bo7b4o$20bob4o2bo$3o18b2o2bo5bo$2bo4b2o22b
o$7b2o$26b2o$o25bo2bobo!""")

leftedge = g.parse("""34b2obo3$35bo$33b3o$32bo$32b2o23$4b2o$5bo$3bo19b2o$3b2o18bo2bo$b2o3bo
14bobob2o$o2b4o14b2obo$2obo20bo$bobob2o5b2o10b3o$bobob2o5b2o13bo$2obo
22b2o$3bo$3bobo$4b2o$11b2o$11bo25bo$8b2obo3b2o20bo$6bo2bob2o2b2o$6b2ob
o19b2o$9bo5b2o12b2o4bo$9b2o5bo18b3o$14bo$14b2o19b3o$35bo2$26b2ob2o$22b
2o3bob2o2b2o$22bo2bobo6bo$24b2ob7o3bo$26bo7b4o$26bob4o2bo$27b2o2bo5bo$
37bo2$32b2o$32bo2bobo!""") # width = 38, height = 64

upperleftcorner = g.parse("""6$36b2o$36bo2$34b4o$34bo$37bo$37bo2$32b2o$32bo2bobo!""") # width = 38, height = 16

upperedge = g.parse("""6bo2b2o$6b4obo$11bo$4b7ob2o$3bo6bobo2bo$3b2o2b2obo3b2o$7b2ob2o18b2o$
30bo$o$o27b4o$28bo$3o28bo$2bo4b2o22bo$7b2o$26b2o$o25bo2bobo!""") # width = 32, height = 16

upperrightcorner = g.parse("""6bo2b2o$6b4obo$11bo$4b7ob2o$3bo6bobo2bo$3b2o2b2obo3b2o$7b2ob2o59b2o$
72bo$o69bo5b2o$o69b2o5bo$77bob2o$3o67b2o2b2obo2bo$2bo4b2o61b2o3bob2o$
7b2o39b2o25bo$48bo25b2o$o28b2o19bo30b2o!""") # width = 87, height = 16

rightedge = g.parse("""o26bo2bo18b2o30bobo$27b2obobo14bo3b2o30bo$29bob2o14b4o2bo29bob2o$29bo
20bob2o19b2o5b2obobo$27b3o10b2o5b2obobo20b2o5b2obobo$10b2o14bo13b2o5b
2obobo30bob2o$10bo15b2o22bob2o10b2o14b4o2bo$11b3o36bo12bobo14bo3b2o$
13bo34bobo12bo18b2o$48b2o12b2o19bo$41b2o38bo$12b2ob2o25bo38b2o$10bo2bo
b2o20b2o3bob2o$10b2o25b2o2b2obo2bo$23b2o19bob2o$15bo2bo4b2o12b2o5bo$5b
2o2bo5b4o18bo5b2o$4bob4o2bo26bo$4bo7b7o19b2o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo$o2bobo6bo$
2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o9b2o$19bo6bobo2bo9bo$13bo2b
o3b7ob2o6b2o5bo$13b7o7bo8bo5b2o$19bo2b4obo5b2obo$13b4o5bo2b2o6bo2bob2o
2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo18b2obo3b2o$7b2o29bo$20b2o16b2o$15b2obo2bo9b2o$15b2ob2o
10bobo$30bo$27b2obo$18bo9bobob2o5b2o$18b3o7bobob2o5b2o$4b2o15bo5b2obo$
5bo14b2o5bo2b4o14b2o$2b3o23b2o3bo14bobo$2bo27b2o18bo$30bo19b2o$32bo$ob
2o27b2o$obo2bo$4b2o2$o$o5bo2b2o$3bo2b4obo$4o7bo$o3b7ob2o$3bo6bobo2bo$
3b2o2b2obo3b2o$7b2ob2o59b2o$72bo$2bo67bo5b2o$3o67b2o5bo$77bob2o$3o67b
2o2b2obo2bo$2bo4b2o61b2o3bob2o$7b2o39b2o25bo$48bo25b2o$o28b2o19bo30b2o
!""") # width = 87, height = 64

lowerrightcorner = g.parse("""o26bo2bo18b2o30bobo$27b2obobo14bo3b2o30bo$29bob2o14b4o2bo29bob2o$29bo
20bob2o19b2o5b2obobo$27b3o10b2o5b2obobo20b2o5b2obobo$10b2o14bo13b2o5b
2obobo30bob2o$10bo15b2o22bob2o10b2o14b4o2bo$11b3o36bo12bobo14bo3b2o$
13bo34bobo12bo18b2o$48b2o12b2o19bo$41b2o38bo$12b2ob2o25bo38b2o$10bo2bo
b2o20b2o3bob2o$10b2o25b2o2b2obo2bo$23b2o19bob2o$15bo2bo4b2o12b2o5bo$5b
2o2bo5b4o18bo5b2o$4bob4o2bo26bo$4bo7b7o19b2o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo$o2bobo6bo$
2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o$19bo6bobo2bo$13bo2bo3b7ob
2o$13b7o7bo$19bo2b4obo$13b4o5bo2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo$7b2o$20b2o$15b2obo2bo$
15b2ob2o5$4b2o$5bo$2b3o$2bo2$25bo$ob2o21b3o$obo2bo22bo$4b2o21b2o2$o$o$
3bo$4o34b2ob2o$38b2obo2bo$bo41b2o$2o28b2o$30b2o4bo2bo$36b4o$42bo$38b5o
$38bo$40bo$27b2ob2o7b2o$23b2o3bob2o2b2o$23bo2bobo6bo$25b2ob7o$27bo$27b
ob4o$28b2o2bo!""") # width = 87, height = 67
# (sticks out 6 farther than it has to, for consistency with side pieces)

loweredge = g.parse("""o27b2obo3$29bo$27b3o$10b2o14bo$10bo15b2o$11b3o$13bo3$12b2ob2o$10bo2bob
2o$10b2o$23b2o$15bo2bo4b2o$5b2o2bo5b4o$4bob4o2bo$4bo7b7o$2b2ob7o3bo2bo
$o2bobo6bo$2o3bob2o2b2o10b2ob2o$4b2ob2o10b2o2b2obo3b2o$19bo6bobo2bo$
13bo2bo3b7ob2o$13b7o7bo$19bo2b4obo$13b4o5bo2b2o$7b2o4bo2bo$7b2o$20b2o$
15b2obo2bo$15b2ob2o3$18bo$18b3o$4b2o15bo$5bo14b2o$2b3o$2bo3$ob2o27bo$o
bo2bo25bo$4b2o$23b2o$o22b2o4bo$o28b3o$3bo$4o27bo$31bo$bo$2o18b2ob2o$
16b2o3bob2o2b2o$16bo2bobo6bo$18b2ob7o$20bo$20bob4o$21b2o2bo!""") # width = 32, height = 60

lowerleftcorner = g.parse("""34b2obo3$35bo$33b3o$32bo$32b2o23$4b2o$5bo$3bo19b2o$3b2o18bo2bo$b2o3bo
14bobob2o$o2b4o14b2obo$2obo20bo$bobob2o5b2o10b3o$bobob2o5b2o13bo$2obo
22b2o$3bo$3bobo$4b2o$11b2o$11bo25bo$8b2obo3b2o20bo$6bo2bob2o2b2o$6b2ob
o19b2o$9bo5b2o12b2o4bo$9b2o5bo18b3o$14bo$14b2o21bo$37bo2$26b2ob2o$22b
2o3bob2o2b2o$22bo2bobo6bo$24b2ob7o$26bo$26bob4o$27b2o2bo!""") # width = 38, height = 60

upperrowpat = upperleftcorner
middlerowpat = leftedge
lowerrowpat = lowerleftcorner

for i in range(repsx):
  upperrowpat = g.join(upperrowpat,g.transform(upperedge,38+i*32,0))
  middlerowpat = g.join(middlerowpat,g.transform(basepat,38+i*32,0))
  lowerrowpat = g.join(lowerrowpat,g.transform(loweredge,38+i*32,0))
  g.show(str(i))
upperrowpat = g.join(upperrowpat, g.transform(upperrightcorner, 38+repsx*32,0))
middlerowpat = g.join(middlerowpat, g.transform(rightedge, 38+repsx*32,0))
lowerrowpat = g.join(lowerrowpat,g.transform(lowerrightcorner, 38+repsx*32,0))

g.putcells(upperrowpat)
for i in range(repsy):
  g.putcells(middlerowpat,0,16+i*64)
  g.show(str(i))
g.putcells(lowerrowpat,0,16+repsy*64)

g.currlayer.save('output.mc')


The time improves from 'several hours' to 2.406 seconds:

$ time python dvgrn.py > /dev/null
Instruction set AVX2 detected

real   0m2.406s
user   0m2.268s
sys   0m0.028s


Of course, this isn't how you'd write a script in lifelib from scratch; you'd use a + b instead of g.join(a, b), and so forth.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Naszvadi » July 17th, 2019, 7:39 am

calcyman wrote:
Naszvadi wrote:Extending my questions: parallel glider paths must be disjoint and must fit to smallest stable right angle glider reflector (currently it is Snark)! The trivial 2G+2Eaters AND gate violates this constraint.


Are we talking about the same AND gate? This ancient one seems to satisfy your constraint:

Code: Select all
x = 28, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
20bo$19bo$o18b3o$3o$3bo$2b2o3$26b2o$26b2o10$2b2o$3bo$3o$o$20b3o$20bo$
21bo!


Cool!

Manually tried, can be a little bit compressed into a smaller bounding box, but I am pretty sure that this is already known. Needs 94 generations to recover for accepting new signals.

x = 56, y = 72, rule = LifeHistory
52.CB$51.BCBC$50.2B2C$49.4B$.D46.4B$2DB44.4B$DBDB42.4B$.4B40.4B$2.4B
38.4B$3.4B36.4B$4.4B34.4B$5.4B32.4B$6.4B30.4B$7.4B28.4B$8.4B26.4B$9.
4B24.4B$10.4B22.4B$11.4B20.4B$12.4B18.4B$13.4B16.4B$14.4B14.4B$15.4B
12.4B$16.4B10.4B$17.4B8.C3B$18.4B6.C3B$19.4B4.B3C$10.A9.4B2.4B$10.3A
8.8B$13.A8.6B$12.2A9.7B4.B$12.4B6.10B.3B$14.4B3.14B2A$13.22B2A$12.22B
.B$11.21B$12.19B$13.19B$13.18B$14.4B2.5B2.B$14.3B4.4B$12.4B6.4B$12.2A
9.4B$13.A10.4B$10.3A12.4B$10.A15.4B$27.4B$28.B3C$29.C3B$30.C3B$31.4B$
32.4B$33.4B$34.4B$35.4B$36.4B$37.4B$38.4B$39.4B$40.4B$41.4B$42.4B$43.
4B$44.4B$45.4B$46.4B$47.4B$48.4B$49.4B$50.4B$51.2B2C$52.BCBC$53.CB!


All four phases:
x = 77, y = 67, rule = LifeHistory
9.2D8.C39.2D8.C$9.DBD6.C2B38.DBD6.C2B$9.D3B4.B3C38.D3B4.B3C$A9.4B2.4B
30.A9.4B2.4B$3A8.8B31.3A8.8B$3.A8.6B35.A8.6B$2.2A9.7B4.B27.2A9.7B4.B$
2.4B6.10B.3B26.4B6.10B.3B$4.4B3.14B2A27.4B3.14B2A$3.22B2A26.22B2A$2.
22B.B26.22B.B$.21B29.21B$2.19B31.19B$3.19B31.19B$3.18B32.18B$4.4B2.5B
2.B36.4B2.5B2.B$4.3B4.4B39.3B4.4B$2.4B6.4B36.4B6.4B$2.2A9.4B35.2A9.4B
$3.A10.4B35.A10.4B$3A12.4B31.3A12.4B$A15.4B30.A15.4B$17.4B46.4B$18.B
3C46.B3D$19.C2B47.D2B$20.C49.D16$9.2D8.D39.2D8.D$9.DBD6.D2B38.DBD6.D
2B$9.D3B4.B3D38.D3B4.B3D$A9.4B2.4B30.A9.4B2.4B$3A8.8B31.3A8.8B$3.A8.
6B35.A8.6B$2.2A9.7B4.B27.2A9.7B4.B$2.4B6.10B.3B26.4B6.10B.3B$4.4B3.
14B2A27.4B3.14B2A$3.22B2A26.22B2A$2.22B.B26.22B.B$.21B29.21B$2.19B31.
19B$3.19B31.19B$3.18B32.18B$4.4B2.5B2.B36.4B2.5B2.B$4.3B4.4B39.3B4.4B
$2.4B6.4B36.4B6.4B$2.2A9.4B35.2A9.4B$3.A10.4B35.A10.4B$3A12.4B31.3A
12.4B$A15.4B30.A15.4B$17.4B46.4B$18.B3C46.B3D$19.C2B47.D2B$20.C49.D!


What is known about other gates like OR, XOR etc.?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Moosey » July 17th, 2019, 7:48 am

Naszvadi wrote:

What is known about other gates like OR, XOR etc.?

OR and XOR would probably be a pain. At some point you'd need to merge glider streams with the exact same timing.
The mechanism for this would just be a giant conduit one glider's side which spits off one glider to destroy the other glider and then merges the glider onto the exact same stream the other would be on with the exact same timing so that you can't tell whether A or B came in. Of course, you can adjust the timing of the gliders as much as you wish for the OR gate; XOR would be far harder because you probably can't adjust their timing.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Naszvadi » July 17th, 2019, 8:46 am

Moosey wrote:
Naszvadi wrote:

What is known about other gates like OR, XOR etc.?

OR and XOR would probably be a pain. At some point you'd need to merge glider streams with the exact same timing.
The mechanism for this would just be a giant conduit one glider's side which spits off one glider to destroy the other glider and then merges the glider onto the exact same stream the other would be on with the exact same timing so that you can't tell whether A or B came in. Of course, you can adjust the timing of the gliders as much as you wish for the OR gate; XOR would be far harder because you probably can't adjust their timing.


Partly disagree. XOR and OR are both at the same difficulty level. Crossing glider paths could kill each other and then an OR gate can be fed with the surviving one.

It is easy to see that injecting a glider in the same path is the cardinal question. Probably some Herschel magic could help, like this unsuccessful probe:
x = 110, y = 73, rule = B3/S23
13$80b2o14bo$80b2o14b2o$23b2o70bobo$23b2o46b2obo$71bob2o17bo$13b2o79bo
$14bo75bo$14bobo75bo$15b2o71bo$31b2o57bo$31b2o8b2o29bo13bo$41bo30b3o
13bo$15b2o22bobo21bo11bo8bo$14bobo22b2o6bo15b3o8b2o10bo3bo$14bo30b3o
18bo15bo6bobo$13b2o29bo20b2o17bo5bo$44b2o2$17b2o$17b2o68b2o$87bobo$89b
o$47b2o15bo24b2o$47b2o15bo20b2o$64b3o18bo$66bo11b2o6b3o$78bo9bo$79b3o$
81bo4$36b2o$36bo$37b3o$14b2o23bo$14b2o$27b2o$26bo2bo2b2o$17b2o7bobo4bo
2bo$16bobo8bo5bobobo$14b3obobo9b2obo2bo$13bo5b2o9bo2bo$13b2o12bo4bo$
27b5o2$29bo$28bobo35b2o$29bo35b2o$67bo!


Where could I get more information about Herschel tracks? Especially classification of terminating tracks a H or B would be handy. I wonder if there were experiments about H-track logic.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 17th, 2019, 9:20 am

Naszvadi wrote:Where could I get more information about Herschel tracks? Especially classification of terminating tracks a H or B would be handy. I wonder if there were experiments about H-track logic.

Sounds like you might be looking for the Elementary Conduits Collection. Also, if you open Golly's Patterns/Life/Signal-Circuitry/h-to-h-collection-26Aug2017.zip, you'll get an HTML page with a number of links to other related collections.

Unfortunately nobody has done an update to the H-to-G collection for several years now. It's supposed to contain composite conduits, Herschel conduits that release extra gliders, etc., organized by the output lane -- not just elementary conduits. But I'm sure there have been a lot of discoveries that haven't made it into that collection. A more complete categorization of H-to-2G converters would also be really nice, though we've made some progress there.

It would also be useful to have an annotation for each H-to-G, saying which glider lanes are transparent if any. This comes in handy both for signal merge operations and for assembling multi-glider shotguns. At the moment there isn't a really complete collection of transparent and near-transparent Herschel conduits. You just kind of have to know what the commonly used ones are: Fx119 inserter, NW31T120, BNE14T30, RNE-19T84, etc.

There's been some attention paid now and then to Herschel logic circuitry -- see for example here (OR gate) and here (XOR).
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Naszvadi » July 17th, 2019, 10:07 am

dvgrn wrote:
Naszvadi wrote:Where could I get more information about Herschel tracks? Especially classification of terminating tracks a H or B would be handy. I wonder if there were experiments about H-track logic.

Sounds like you might be looking for the Elementary Conduits Collection. Also, if you open Golly's Patterns/Life/Signal-Circuitry/h-to-h-collection-26Aug2017.zip, you'll get an HTML page with a number of links to other related collections.

Unfortunately nobody has done an update to the H-to-G collection for several years now. It's supposed to contain composite conduits, Herschel conduits that release extra gliders, etc., organized by the output lane -- not just elementary conduits. But I'm sure there have been a lot of discoveries that haven't made it into that collection. A more complete categorization of H-to-2G converters would also be really nice, though we've made some progress there.

It would also be useful to have an annotation for each H-to-G, saying which glider lanes are transparent if any. This comes in handy both for signal merge operations and for assembling multi-glider shotguns. At the moment there isn't a really complete collection of transparent and near-transparent Herschel conduits. You just kind of have to know what the commonly used ones are: Fx119 inserter, NW31T120, BNE14T30, RNE-19T84, etc.

There's been some attention paid now and then to Herschel logic circuitry -- see for example here (OR gate) and here (XOR).


This is the situation when the impatient lacks waiting for the answer and made an OR gate:
x = 766, y = 242, rule = LifeHistory
D191.D191.C191.C$.2D190.2D190.2C190.2C$2D2B188.2D2B188.2C2B188.2C2B$.
4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$2.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$3.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$4.
4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$5.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$6.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$7.
4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$8.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$9.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
10.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$11.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$12.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$13.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$14.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$15.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$16.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$17.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$18.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$19.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$20.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$21.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$22.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$23.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
24.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$25.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$26.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$27.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$28.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$29.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$30.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$31.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$32.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$33.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$34.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$35.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$36.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$37.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
38.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$39.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$40.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$41.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$42.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$43.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$44.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$45.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$46.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$47.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$48.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$49.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$50.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$51.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
52.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$53.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$54.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$55.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$56.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$57.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$58.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$59.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$60.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$61.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$62.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$63.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$64.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$65.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
66.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$67.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$68.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$69.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$70.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$71.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$72.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$73.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$74.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$75.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$76.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$77.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$78.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$79.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
80.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$81.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$82.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$83.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$84.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$85.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$86.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$87.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$88.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$89.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$90.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$91.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$92.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$93.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
94.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$95.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$96.4B188.4B188.4B188.
4B$97.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$98.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$99.4B188.4B188.4B
188.4B$100.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$101.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$102.4B188.4B
188.4B188.4B$103.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$104.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$105.4B
188.4B188.4B188.4B$106.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$107.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$
108.4B188.4B188.4B188.4B$109.4B8.2A178.4B8.2A178.4B8.2A178.4B8.2A$
110.4B7.A180.4B7.A180.4B7.A180.4B7.A$111.4B3.BA.A181.4B3.BA.A181.4B3.
BA.A181.4B3.BA.A$112.4B2.B2A183.4B2.B2A183.4B2.B2A183.4B2.B2A$113.6B
186.6B186.6B186.6B$114.5B187.5B187.5B187.5B$114.5B187.5B187.5B187.5B$
113.7B185.7B185.7B185.7B$112.4B.4B183.4B.4B183.4B.4B183.4B.4B$111.4B
3.4B181.4B3.4B181.4B3.4B181.4B3.4B$110.4B5.4B179.4B5.4B179.4B5.4B179.
4B5.4B$109.4B7.4B177.4B7.4B177.4B7.4B177.4B7.4B$108.4B9.4B175.4B9.4B
175.4B9.4B175.4B9.4B$107.4B11.4B173.4B11.4B173.4B11.4B173.4B11.4B$
106.4B13.4B171.4B13.4B171.4B13.4B171.4B13.4B$105.4B15.4B169.4B15.4B
169.4B15.4B169.4B15.4B$104.4B17.4B167.4B17.4B167.4B17.4B167.4B17.4B$
103.4B19.4B165.4B19.4B165.4B19.4B165.4B19.4B$102.4B21.4B163.4B21.4B
163.4B21.4B163.4B21.4B$101.4B23.4B161.4B23.4B161.4B23.4B161.4B23.4B$
100.4B25.4B159.4B25.4B159.4B25.4B159.4B25.4B$99.4B27.4B157.4B27.4B
157.4B27.4B157.4B27.4B$98.4B29.4B155.4B29.4B155.4B29.4B155.4B29.4B$
97.4B31.4B153.4B31.4B153.4B31.4B153.4B31.4B$96.4B33.4B151.4B33.4B151.
4B33.4B151.4B33.4B$95.4B35.4B149.4B35.4B149.4B35.4B149.4B35.4B$94.4B
37.4B147.4B37.4B147.4B37.4B147.4B37.4B$93.4B39.4B145.4B39.4B145.4B39.
4B145.4B39.4B$92.4B41.4B143.4B41.4B143.4B41.4B143.4B41.4B$91.4B43.4B
141.4B43.4B141.4B43.4B141.4B43.4B$90.4B45.4B139.4B45.4B139.4B45.4B
139.4B45.4B$89.4B47.4B137.4B47.4B137.4B47.4B137.4B47.4B$88.4B49.4B
135.4B49.4B135.4B49.4B135.4B49.4B$87.4B51.4B133.4B51.4B133.4B51.4B
133.4B51.4B$86.4B53.4B131.4B53.4B131.4B53.4B131.4B53.4B$85.4B55.4B
129.4B55.4B129.4B55.4B129.4B55.4B$84.4B57.4B127.4B57.4B127.4B57.4B
127.4B57.4B$83.4B59.4B125.4B59.4B125.4B59.4B125.4B59.4B$82.4B61.4B
123.4B61.4B123.4B61.4B123.4B61.4B$81.4B63.4B121.4B63.4B121.4B63.4B
121.4B63.4B$80.4B65.4B119.4B65.4B119.4B65.4B119.4B65.4B$79.4B67.4B
117.4B67.4B117.4B67.4B117.4B67.4B$78.4B69.4B115.4B69.4B115.4B69.4B
115.4B69.4B$77.4B71.4B113.4B71.4B113.4B71.4B113.4B71.4B$76.4B73.4B
111.4B73.4B111.4B73.4B111.4B73.4B$75.4B75.4B109.4B75.4B109.4B75.4B
109.4B75.4B$74.4B77.4B107.4B77.4B107.4B77.4B107.4B77.4B$73.4B79.4B
105.4B79.4B105.4B79.4B105.4B79.4B$72.4B81.4B103.4B81.4B103.4B81.4B
103.4B81.4B$71.4B83.4B101.4B83.4B101.4B83.4B101.4B83.4B$70.4B61.2E17.
2A3.4B99.4B61.2E17.2A3.4B99.4B61.2E17.2A3.4B99.4B61.2E17.2A3.4B$69.4B
63.E16.B2AB3.4B97.4B63.E16.B2AB3.4B97.4B63.E16.B2AB3.4B97.4B63.E16.B
2AB3.4B$59.A8.4B64.E.EB14.2B5.4B86.A8.4B64.E.EB14.2B5.4B86.A8.4B64.E.
EB14.2B5.4B86.A8.4B64.E.EB14.2B5.4B$57.5A5.4B5.2A59.EC2B14.2B4.5B83.
5A5.4B5.2A59.EC2B14.2B4.5B83.5A5.4B5.2A59.EC2B14.2B4.5B83.5A5.4B5.2A
59.EC2B14.2B4.5B$56.A5.A4.4B5.A62.3B12.14B80.A5.A4.4B5.A62.3B12.14B
80.A5.A4.4B5.A62.3B12.14B80.A5.A4.4B5.A62.3B12.14B$56.A2.3AB2.7B.BA.A
62.4B11.14B80.A2.3AB2.7B.BA.A62.4B11.14B80.A2.3AB2.7B.BA.A62.4B11.14B
80.A2.3AB2.7B.BA.A62.4B11.14B$55.2A.A.2B3.7B.B2A64.4B.B5.18B78.2A.A.
2B3.7B.B2A64.4B.B5.18B78.2A.A.2B3.7B.B2A64.4B.B5.18B78.2A.A.2B3.7B.B
2A64.4B.B5.18B$55.A2.4A12B67.29B77.A2.4A12B67.29B77.A2.4A12B67.29B77.
A2.4A12B67.29B$56.2A2.BA3B2A7B67.30B77.2A2.BA3B2A7B67.30B77.2A2.BA3B
2A7B67.30B77.2A2.BA3B2A7B67.30B$58.3AB.2B2A7B67.31B78.3AB.2B2A7B67.
31B78.3AB.2B2A7B67.31B78.3AB.2B2A7B67.31B$58.A.B3.10B67.32B77.A.B3.
10B67.32B77.A.B3.10B67.32B77.A.B3.10B67.32B$55.2A.A8.8B67.32B73.2A.A
8.8B67.32B73.2A.A8.8B67.32B73.2A.A8.8B67.32B$55.2A.2A7.9B64.2AB2.23B
3.4B72.2A.2A7.9B64.2AB2.23B3.4B72.2A.2A7.9B64.2AB2.23B3.4B72.2A.2A7.
9B64.2AB2.23B3.4B$68.3B2.4B62.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B84.3B2.4B62.A.AB4.B.16B
7.4B84.3B2.4B62.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B84.3B2.4B62.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B$66.5B3.4B
61.A11.10B.2B9.4B81.5B3.4B61.A11.10B.2B9.4B81.5B3.4B61.A11.10B.2B9.4B
81.5B3.4B61.A11.10B.2B9.4B$66.2A7.4B16.2A41.2A12.9B13.4B80.2A7.4B16.
2A41.2A12.9B13.4B80.2A7.4B16.2A41.2A12.9B13.4B80.2A7.4B16.2A41.2A12.
9B13.4B$67.A8.4B14.B2AB51.11B15.4B80.A8.4B14.B2AB51.11B15.4B80.A8.4B
14.B2AB51.11B15.4B80.A8.4B14.B2AB51.11B15.4B$64.3A10.4B14.2B6.B44.12B
16.4B76.3A10.4B14.2B6.B44.12B16.4B76.3A10.4B14.2B6.B44.12B16.4B76.3A
10.4B14.2B6.B44.12B16.4B$64.A13.4B14.2B4.3B34.2A7.12B17.4B75.A13.4B
14.2B4.3B34.2A7.12B17.4B75.A13.4B14.2B4.3B34.2A7.12B17.4B75.A13.4B14.
2B4.3B34.2A7.12B17.4B$79.4B12.14B29.A2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B89.4B12.14B29.A
2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B89.4B12.14B29.A2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B89.4B12.14B29.A2.A2.
2A2.11B19.4B$80.4B11.14B30.2A2.A.A2.8B.4B18.4B89.4B11.14B30.2A2.A.A2.
8B.4B18.4B89.4B11.14B30.2A2.A.A2.8B.4B18.4B89.4B11.14B30.2A2.A.A2.8B.
4B18.4B$81.4B.B5.18B31.2A.B3.7B4.2A19.4B89.4B.B5.18B31.2A.B3.7B4.2A
19.4B89.4B.B5.18B31.2A.B3.7B4.2A19.4B89.4B.B5.18B31.2A.B3.7B4.2A19.4B
$82.29B30.A2.2B2.7B4.A21.4B89.29B30.A2.2B2.7B4.A21.4B89.29B30.A2.2B2.
7B4.A21.4B89.29B30.A2.2B2.7B4.A21.4B$82.30B26.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A19.4B
88.30B26.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A19.4B88.30B26.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A19.4B88.30B26.
2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A19.4B$82.31B25.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B87.31B25.A.2A.A.A8B
8.A20.4B87.31B25.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B87.31B25.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B$82.32B
28.A.A.8B30.4B86.32B28.A.A.8B30.4B86.32B28.A.A.8B30.4B86.32B28.A.A.8B
30.4B$83.32B24.2A2.A4.5B32.4B86.32B24.2A2.A4.5B32.4B86.32B24.2A2.A4.
5B32.4B86.32B24.2A2.A4.5B32.4B$81.2AB2.23B3.4B21.3A.2A4.6B33.BDBD83.
2AB2.23B3.4B21.3A.2A4.6B33.BDBD83.2AB2.23B3.4B21.3A.2A4.6B33.BDBD83.
2AB2.23B3.4B21.3A.2A4.6B33.BDBD$80.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B19.A4.B6.6B33.B2D
82.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B19.A4.B6.6B33.B2D82.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B19.A4.B6.6B33.B
2D82.A.AB4.B.16B7.4B19.A4.B6.6B33.B2D$80.A11.10B.2B9.4B19.3AB2AB3.7B
34.D83.A11.10B.2B9.4B19.3AB2AB3.7B34.D83.A11.10B.2B9.4B19.3AB2AB3.7B
34.D83.A11.10B.2B9.4B19.3AB2AB3.7B34.D$79.2A12.9B13.4B20.A.2AB.8B118.
2A12.9B13.4B20.A.2AB.8B118.2A12.9B13.4B20.A.2AB.8B118.2A12.9B13.4B20.
A.2AB.8B$90.11B15.4B23.10B129.11B15.4B23.10B129.11B15.4B23.10B129.11B
15.4B23.10B$89.12B16.4B22.6B2A3B127.12B16.4B22.6B2A3B127.12B16.4B22.
6B2A3B127.12B16.4B22.6B2A3B$80.2A7.12B17.4B21.6B2A2B5.2A112.2A7.12B
17.4B21.6B2A2B5.2A112.2A7.12B17.4B21.6B2A2B5.2A112.2A7.12B17.4B21.6B
2A2B5.2A$79.A2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B20.10B5.A112.A2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B20.10B5.
A112.A2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B20.10B5.A112.A2.A2.2A2.11B19.4B20.10B5.A$80.2A
2.A.A2.8B.4B18.4B18.11B2.BA.A113.2A2.A.A2.8B.4B18.4B18.11B2.BA.A113.
2A2.A.A2.8B.4B18.4B18.11B2.BA.A113.2A2.A.A2.8B.4B18.4B18.11B2.BA.A$
82.2A.B3.7B4.2A19.4B17.12B.B2A116.2A.B3.7B4.2A19.4B17.12B.B2A116.2A.B
3.7B4.2A19.4B17.12B.B2A116.2A.B3.7B4.2A19.4B17.12B.B2A$82.A2.2B2.7B4.
A21.4B15.15B118.A2.2B2.7B4.A21.4B15.15B118.A2.2B2.7B4.A21.4B15.15B
118.A2.2B2.7B4.A21.4B15.15B$79.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A19.4B13.16B115.2A.A.BA
2B.6B6.3A19.4B13.16B115.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A19.4B13.16B115.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.
3A19.4B13.16B$79.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B9.2B.16B115.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B9.2B
.16B115.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B9.2B.16B115.A.2A.A.A8B8.A20.4B9.2B.16B$83.A
.A.8B30.4B7.2A18B119.A.A.8B30.4B7.2A18B119.A.A.8B30.4B7.2A18B119.A.A.
8B30.4B7.2A18B$80.2A2.A4.5B32.4B6.2AB.17B115.2A2.A4.5B32.4B6.2AB.17B
115.2A2.A4.5B32.4B6.2AB.17B115.2A2.A4.5B32.4B6.2AB.17B$78.3A.2A4.6B
33.4B6.B.4B.8B2.4B112.3A.2A4.6B33.4B6.B.4B.8B2.4B112.3A.2A4.6B33.4B6.
B.4B.8B2.4B112.3A.2A4.6B33.4B6.B.4B.8B2.4B$77.A4.B6.6B33.4B12.7B4.4B
110.A4.B6.6B33.4B12.7B4.4B110.A4.B6.6B33.4B12.7B4.4B110.A4.B6.6B33.4B
12.7B4.4B$78.3AB2AB3.7B34.4B12.6B5.4B110.3AB2AB3.7B34.4B12.6B5.4B110.
3AB2AB3.7B34.4B12.6B5.4B110.3AB2AB3.7B34.4B12.6B5.4B$80.A.2AB.8B36.4B
13.4B6.4B111.A.2AB.8B36.4B13.4B6.4B111.A.2AB.8B36.4B13.4B6.4B111.A.2A
B.8B36.4B13.4B6.4B$84.10B37.4B14.3BA5.4B114.10B37.4B14.3BA5.4B114.10B
37.4B14.3BA5.4B114.10B37.4B14.3BA5.4B$84.6B2A3B37.4B14.BA.A5.4B113.6B
2A3B37.4B14.BA.A5.4B113.6B2A3B37.4B14.BA.A5.4B113.6B2A3B37.4B14.BA.A
5.4B$84.6B2A2B5.2A32.4B14.A.A6.4B112.6B2A2B5.2A32.4B14.A.A6.4B112.6B
2A2B5.2A32.4B14.A.A6.4B112.6B2A2B5.2A32.4B14.A.A6.4B$84.10B5.A34.4B
14.A8.4B111.10B5.A34.4B14.A8.4B111.10B5.A34.4B14.A8.4B111.10B5.A34.4B
14.A8.4B$83.11B2.BA.A35.4B14.3A6.4B109.11B2.BA.A35.4B14.3A6.4B109.11B
2.BA.A35.4B14.3A6.4B109.11B2.BA.A35.4B14.3A6.4B$83.12B.B2A37.4B15.A7.
4B108.12B.B2A37.4B15.A7.4B108.12B.B2A37.4B15.A7.4B108.12B.B2A37.4B15.
A7.4B$82.15B40.4B23.4B8.A97.15B40.4B23.4B8.A97.15B40.4B23.4B8.A97.15B
40.4B23.4B8.A$81.16B41.4B16.2A5.4B5.5A94.16B41.4B16.2A5.4B5.5A94.16B
41.4B16.2A5.4B5.5A94.16B41.4B16.2A5.4B5.5A$78.2B.16B42.4B16.A5.4B4.A
5.A90.2B.16B42.4B16.A5.4B4.A5.A90.2B.16B42.4B16.A5.4B4.A5.A90.2B.16B
42.4B16.A5.4B4.A5.A$77.2A18B43.4B15.A.AB.7B2.B3A2.A89.2A18B43.4B15.A.
AB.7B2.B3A2.A89.2A18B43.4B15.A.AB.7B2.B3A2.A89.2A18B43.4B15.A.AB.7B2.
B3A2.A$77.2AB.17B43.4B15.2AB.7B3.2B.A.2A88.2AB.17B43.4B15.2AB.7B3.2B.
A.2A88.2AB.17B43.4B15.2AB.7B3.2B.A.2A88.2AB.17B43.4B15.2AB.7B3.2B.A.
2A$78.B.4B.8B2.4B43.4B16.12B4A2.A89.B.4B.8B2.4B43.4B16.12B4A2.A89.B.
4B.8B2.4B43.4B16.12B4A2.A89.B.4B.8B2.4B43.4B16.12B4A2.A$85.7B4.4B43.
4B10.A4.7B2A3BAB2.2A97.7B4.4B43.4B10.A4.7B2A3BAB2.2A97.7B4.4B43.4B10.
A4.7B2A3BAB2.2A97.7B4.4B43.4B10.A4.7B2A3BAB2.2A$86.6B5.4B43.4B7.3A4.
7B2A2B.B3A100.6B5.4B43.4B7.3A4.7B2A2B.B3A100.6B5.4B43.4B7.3A4.7B2A2B.
B3A100.6B5.4B43.4B7.3A4.7B2A2B.B3A$88.4B6.4B43.4B5.A7.10B3.B.A102.4B
6.4B43.4B5.A7.10B3.B.A102.4B6.4B43.4B5.A7.10B3.B.A102.4B6.4B43.4B5.A
7.10B3.B.A$90.3BA5.4B43.4B4.2A5.8B8.A.2A101.3BA5.4B43.4B4.2A5.8B8.A.
2A101.3BA5.4B43.4B4.2A5.8B8.A.2A101.3BA5.4B43.4B4.2A5.8B8.A.2A$91.BA.
A5.3BD43.9B4.9B7.2A.2A102.BA.A5.3BC43.9B4.9B7.2A.2A102.BA.A5.3BD43.9B
4.9B7.2A.2A102.BA.A5.3BC43.9B4.9B7.2A.2A$92.A.A6.B2D44.6B5.4B2.3B116.
A.A6.B2C44.6B5.4B2.3B116.A.A6.B2D44.6B5.4B2.3B116.A.A6.B2C44.6B5.4B2.
3B$93.A8.D.D43.8B2.4B3.5B115.A8.C.C43.8B2.4B3.5B115.A8.D.D43.8B2.4B3.
5B115.A8.C.C43.8B2.4B3.5B$94.3A49.15B7.2A116.3A49.15B7.2A116.3A49.15B
7.2A116.3A49.15B7.2A$96.A49.14B8.A119.A49.14B8.A119.A49.14B8.A119.A
49.14B8.A$146.13B10.3A166.13B10.3A166.13B10.3A166.13B10.3A$144.2AB.
10B13.A164.2AB.10B13.A164.2AB.10B13.A164.2AB.10B13.A$143.A.AB3.B2A3B
179.A.AB3.B2A3B179.A.AB3.B2A3B179.A.AB3.B2A3B$143.A6.B2A3B179.A6.B2A
3B179.A6.B2A3B179.A6.B2A3B$142.2A6.4B180.2A6.4B180.2A6.4B180.2A6.4B$
151.3B189.3B189.3B189.3B$152.2B.BA187.2B.BA187.2B.BA187.2B.BA$151.B2A
BA.A185.B2ABA.A185.B2ABA.A185.B2ABA.A$150.BABABA.A184.BABABA.A184.BAB
ABA.A184.BABABA.A$148.A2.A.A.A.2A181.A2.A.A.A.2A181.A2.A.A.A.2A181.A
2.A.A.A.2A$148.4A.2A2.A182.4A.2A2.A182.4A.2A2.A182.4A.2A2.A$152.A4.A
186.A4.A186.A4.A186.A4.A$148.2A2.A.3A183.2A2.A.3A183.2A2.A.3A183.2A2.
A.3A$148.2A3.2A185.2A3.2A185.2A3.2A185.2A3.2A!


distance between input and output: 750 generations.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Ian07 » July 17th, 2019, 11:33 am

Two questions:
1. Is there a way using Golly to save a pattern in the .cells format?
2. Where can I find the macrocell files for Gemini 2 and 3? muzik posted them on the wiki back in 2016, but they appear to be incomplete because RLE:Gemini3-mc gives an error and RLE:Gemini2-mc just gives this:
x = 964, y = 824, rule = B3/S23
240bo$238bobo$239b2o142$384bo$382bobo$383b2o70$72bo$70bobo$71b2o55$o$b
2o$2o13$528bo$526bobo$527b2o70$216bo$214bobo$215b2o58$147bo$148b2o$
147b2o13$674bo$675b2o$674b2o127$291bo$292b2o$291b2o13$819bo$817bobo$
818b2o65$630bo$628bobo$629b2o28$20bo$18bobo$19b2o30$435bo$436b2o$435b
2o13$963bo$961bobo$962b2o95$419bo$165bo254b2o$163bobo253b2o$164b2o!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 17th, 2019, 11:44 am

Ian07 wrote:Is there a way using Golly to save a pattern in the .cells format?

This Python script should work okay, if you change the asterisk to a capital O.

If you want to preserve comments, that will take a few more lines. It's doable now that we have g.getinfo(). Probably ought to convert this to Lua, of course, so as to not discriminate against Golly-without-Python users.

That's very odd about the broken Gemini .mc files. There's a lot of text in there, but the Gemini 3 text is clearly interrupted halfway through. The same thing probably happened for Gemini 2, so Golly is just displaying the last defined hashtile, or something like that.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Ian07 » July 17th, 2019, 11:56 am

dvgrn wrote:This Python script should work okay, if you change the asterisk to a capital O.

If you want to preserve comments, that will take a few more lines. It's doable now that we have g.getinfo(). Probably ought to convert this to Lua, of course, so as to not discriminate against Golly-without-Python users.

This unfortunately gave me an error, and so did the other script linked inside one of the comments. For whatever reason I can't actually copy it, so I attached a screenshot.

EDIT: Scorbie's script, posted later in the same thread, worked for me.

EDIT 2: I'm an idiot, I just had to select the pattern first, should've actually looked at the code since it's only 8 lines.

dvgrn wrote:That's very odd about the broken Gemini .mc files. There's a lot of text in there, but the Gemini 3 text is clearly interrupted halfway through. The same thing probably happened for Gemini 2, so Golly is just displaying the last defined hashtile, or something like that.

After looking on the wiki's list of spaceships I was able to find two old posts of yours containing the full .mc files. Still not sure what the deal is with the ones on the wiki not working, but those will probably be deleted now anyway since I can link to the pattern files themselves.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 17th, 2019, 12:24 pm

Ian07 wrote:After looking on the wiki's list of spaceships I was able to find two old posts of yours containing the full .mc files. Still not sure what the deal is with the ones on the wiki not working, but those will probably be deleted now anyway since I can link to the pattern files themselves.

Seems to me it's not a bad idea to have a copy somewhere else besides my old cranemtn.com FTP site. There's no guarantee that that will remain available forever.

The problems were both caused by incomplete (truncated) macrocell files. On a slow Internet connection it was always very easy to load one of those cranemtn.com links, and hit Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C too quickly, without noticing that the page hadn't finished loading yet. Apparently muzik's copied patterns never actually got tested.

For now I've fixed both the Gemini 2 and Gemini 3 .mc files on the wiki. There are a few other variants in that cranemtn.com/life/files/ folder, like "Geminimum" (period 33695514) and "Gemini version 1.0001" (eight ticks faster than the original). Obviously there are unlimited trivial variations like these, but those might be the only ones that ever actually got constructed -- not that that necessarily means they're worth documenting.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Ian07 » July 17th, 2019, 5:50 pm

Why are these two spaceships considered pseudo-objects if they have cells being born that wouldn't otherwise be born?
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... hgis/b3s23
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... hhga/b3s23
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby testitemqlstudop » July 17th, 2019, 10:45 pm

How do I modify apgsearch 5's GPU searching parameters, e.g. generations to run and interesting period?

Specifically, I want to GPU search b3/s, and give all non-p1 soups to the CPU.

(I PMed calcyman, no response)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby calcyman » July 18th, 2019, 5:06 am

testitemqlstudop wrote:How do I modify apgsearch 5's GPU searching parameters, e.g. generations to run and interesting period?


Interesting period is unmodifiable. Generations to run is proportional to the constant 0xfa000000u here: https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/lifelib/bl ... tern.h#L51

(I PMed calcyman, no response)


Oh, forum PMs are basically the worst form of communication since there's an annoying limit of 100 inbox messages (why?) and it forces you to delete messages (individually -- there's no batch method!) in order to reserve space before you can 'release' new messages into the inbox. You're more likely to get a response if you use an alternative form of communication such as an e-mail, GitLab issue, handwritten postal letter sent by carrier falcon, direct message on Instagram, message encoded in UTF-8 in the non-coding portion of the genome of a fruit fly, SMS text message, parchment scroll carried by Pheidippides, air pulses from a large butterfly trained to flap its wings in Morse code, or even voicemail. Just anything that isn't a forum PM, please.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby testitemqlstudop » July 18th, 2019, 5:23 am

Ah ok thanks

So it's hard-coded to run 6 generations at a time?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby calcyman » July 18th, 2019, 6:06 am

testitemqlstudop wrote:Ah ok thanks

So it's hard-coded to run 6 generations at a time?


Yes. You can reduce the value of 6 by changing this, but not increase it:

https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/lifelib/blob/master/cuda/gpupattern.h#L342-347

Also, delete everything after line 400 in that function since escaping glider detection is probably irrelevant...?

Anyway, it's due for a massive rewrite -- I wasn't nearly as experienced with CUDA when I wrote the GPU implementation of apgsearch compared with now, and there are various things that could be substantially improved (maybe with a factor-of-two speedup).
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 18th, 2019, 10:13 am

Ian07 wrote:Why are these two spaceships considered pseudo-objects if they have cells being born that wouldn't otherwise be born?
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... hgis/b3s23
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... hhga/b3s23

I'm not seeing where these objects (MWSS on HWSS 15 and HWSS on HWSS 10) are being labeled as pseudo-objects or pseudo-spaceships. (?)

The relevant page on LifeWiki marks those two, and only those two, as "not known to occur naturally" (no soups on Catagolue). But apgsearch wouldn't separate the two *WSSes and count them separately, in either of those cases -- it will keep the single apgcode, which ought to mean these things aren't pseudo-objects.

Is the object vs. pseudo-object judgment being passed by Catagolue? The [url]p4 spaceship synthesis text census[/url] seems to have the correct leading 1E+17 markers for these two objects, so they sort to the top instead of being banished to the end of the list with strange pseudo-object syntheses like xq4_163zzzzzzzzzzzyzym48e.

Separate question:
That 'xq4_163zzzzzzzzzzzyzym48e' really looks like some kind of upload error, by the way. How can I ask Catagolue if that pseudo-object synthesis is used as a step in some larger recipe? Can someone explain how to track down and help fix this kind of thing?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Ian07 » July 18th, 2019, 10:40 am

dvgrn wrote:I'm not seeing where these objects (MWSS on HWSS 15 and HWSS on HWSS 10) are being labeled as pseudo-objects or pseudo-spaceships. (?)

The relevant page on LifeWiki marks those two, and only those two, as "not known to occur naturally" (no soups on Catagolue). But apgsearch wouldn't separate the two *WSSes and count them separately, in either of those cases -- it will keep the single apgcode, which ought to mean these things aren't pseudo-objects.

Is the object vs. pseudo-object judgment being passed by Catagolue? The [url]p4 spaceship synthesis text census[/url] seems to have the correct leading 1E+17 markers for these two objects, so they sort to the top instead of being banished to the end of the list with strange pseudo-object syntheses like xq4_163zzzzzzzzzzzyzym48e.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, because for me they're both placed at the bottom of the list with other pseudo-objects and their synthesis RLEs both say that they're pseudo-objects:
24c3c90debf0bed6d34cbb2a7f9f6191.png
24c3c90debf0bed6d34cbb2a7f9f6191.png (45.04 KiB) Viewed 711 times

#C [[ GRID MAXGRIDSIZE 14 THEME Catagolue ]]
#CSYNTH xq4_06eeed72zaghgis costs 7 gliders (pseudo).
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 162, y = 59, rule = B3/S23
73bo$71bobo$72b2o$161bo$159b2o$160b2o37$2bo$2bobo$2b2o$115b2o$114b
obo$2o113bo$b2o$o2$35bo$36b2o$35b2o$42b2o$42bobo$37b2o3bo$37bobo$
37bo!

#C [[ GRID MAXGRIDSIZE 14 THEME Catagolue ]]
#CSYNTH xq4_27deee6zwsighhga costs 7 gliders (pseudo).
#CLL state-numbering golly
x = 169, y = 99, rule = B3/S23
153bo$153bobo$153b2o22$o$b2o$2o$7b2o$7bobo$2b2o3bo$2bobo$2bo49$62b
2o$63b2o$62bo3$154b2o$154bobo$154bo9$167bo$166b2o$166bobo!


dvgrn wrote:Separate question:
That 'xq4_163zzzzzzzzzzzyzym48e' really looks like some kind of upload error, by the way. How can I ask Catagolue if that pseudo-object synthesis is used as a step in some larger recipe? Can someone explain how to track down and help fix this kind of thing?

There are also plenty of unusually expensive constellations which are actually the result of botched synthesis steps; I remember there are several of these originated in Mark Niemiec's database (e.g. https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xs8_33zzyicc/b3s23)

Being able to track which syntheses contain a given object as a step would indeed be a nice feature, but as far as I can tell the only way to fix this would be to look through Mark's website, find the original object attempting to be synthesized, and then determine what the correct component is supposed to be for that step.
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