Thread for basic questions

[Hunting]

Q: What does those 1 2 3 and A B C D mean in jslife sparker tabulations?

No one even see this so sad :(

How do you enumerate small spaceships of a certain speed?

[wwei23]

Is it truly impossible to stabilize the P45 gun/oscillator using P9 oscillators?

Code: Select all

x = 60, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
17bob2o4b2obo$17b2o2bo2bo2b2o$15b2o3bo4bo3b2o$14bo3b2ob4ob2o3bo$15b3ob
obo2bobob3o$17bobo6bobo$21b4o$18b2o6b2o2$22b2o2$21b3o$20bo2bo2$17bo7bo
$o9bo4b2o8bo5b2o$3o5b3o4bo6b3o4bo2bo$3bo3bo13bo6bo4bo3b2o3bo2bo3b2o$2b
2o3b2o7bo4bo5b2o8b5o4b5o$17b4o2b3ob2o8b2o3bo2bo3b2o$4b3o11b2o3b3o2bo6b
o$3bo3bo16bo4b2o5bo$2bo5bo5b2o3b2o10bo4bo$16bo2b3o5b2o2bo3b2o$bo7bob2o
3bo2b2o5b3o2bo$bo7bobo4bo10b2o3b2o$11bo5b2o4bo$2bo5bo3bo6bo2b3o3b2o$3b
o3bo11b2ob3o2b4o$4b3o12b2o5bo4bo$14bo4bo6bo$2b2o3b2o6bo2bo4b3o6bo$3bo
3bo7b2o5bo8b2o13bo$3o5b3o11bo7bo16b2o$o9bo35b2o$24bo2bo$24b3o2$24b2o$
22bo4bo$18b2o10b2o$18bo2bo6bo2bo$19b3ob4ob3o$22bo4bo30bo$19b3o6b3o28bo
$18bo12bo25b3o$19b5o2b5o$24b2o$21b2o4b2o$20bobo4bobo$20b2o6b2o3$22b2o
2b2o$21bo2b2o2bo$19bobob4obobo$17b3obobo2bobob3o$16bo3b2ob4ob2o3bo$17b
2o3bo4bo3b2o$19b2o2bo2bo2b2o$19bob2o4b2obo!

EDIT: Actually, they can!

Code: Select all

x = 63, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
10b2o16b2o$11bo16bo$11bobo12bobo$12b2o3b6o3b2o$16bo6bo$15bo8bo$16bo6bo
$12b2o3b6o3b2o$11bobo12bobo$11bo16bo$10b2o16b2o4$20bo2bo$16b2o2bo2bo$
16b2o2bo2bo7b2o$31b2o$3bo32bo8b2o10b2o$2bobo31bo6bo2bo10bo2bo$2bobo26b
3o8b4o12b4o$2o2b2o36b3o14b3o$bobo2bo34b3o16b3o$o2b5o23b3o9b4o10b4o$obo
4bo6b3o27bo2bo8bo2bo$bob2o2b2o27bo11bo6bo$3bo3b2o27bo11bo6bo$3bo3b2o5b
3o31bo6bo$bob2o2b2o35bo2bo8bo2bo$obo4bo35b4o10b4o$o2b5o7b2o24b3o16b3o$
bobo2bo8b2o7bo2bo2b2o10b3o14b3o$2o2b2o18bo2bo2b2o10b4o12b4o$2bobo19bo
2bo15bo2bo10bo2bo$2bobo40b2o10b2o$3bo3$26b2o$24bo4bo$20b2o10b2o$20bo2b
o6bo2bo$21b3ob4ob3o$24bo4bo$21b3o6b3o$20bo12bo$21b5o2b5o$26b2o$23b2o4b
2o$22bobo4bobo$22b2o6b2o3$24b2o2b2o$23bo2b2o2bo$21bobob4obobo$19b3obob
o2bobob3o$18bo3b2ob4ob2o3bo$19b2o3bo4bo3b2o$21b2o2bo2bo2b2o$21bob2o4b
2obo!

[hotdogPi]

This can probably be revisited, although it won't be tiny.

Can this be made into a tiny P18?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$5b3o$5bobo$5bo!

Note that a W-pentomino with a single extra cell (disconnected from the pentomino) becomes another R-pentomino in exactly the right position. If we can get a P2, P3, P6, or P9 to provide that extra cell without destroying the rest of the pattern, we have a P18.

104P9, as described on the wiki, produces the correct type of spark. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to get the eater to work without destroying the oscillator. The bottom P9 in the viewer shown below is able to function as an eater for the R-pentomino, but unfortunately, it's not a stable form.

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
5bob2o4b2obo$5b2o2bo2bo2b2o$3b2o3bo4bo3b2o$2bo3b2ob4ob2o3bo$3b3obobo2b
obob3o$5bo3bo2bo3bo$7b2ob2ob2o$10b2o3$6b2o2b2o2b2o$6bo2bo2bo2bo$7b8o2$
5b4o4b4o$4bo4bo2bo4bo$5b4ob2ob4o$9b4o$5b3ob4ob3o$4bo2bo6bo2bo$4b2o10b
2o6$12b2o$11bo2bo$10b2ob2o$12bo$16b2o$16bobo$18bo$4b2o12b2o$4bo2bo6bo$
5b3ob4ob3o$9b4o4bo$5b4ob2ob4o$4bo4bo2bo$5b4o4b6o$17bo2bo$7b8o4b2o$6bo
2bo2bo2bo$6b2o2b2o2b2o3$10b2o$7b2ob2ob2o$5bo3bo2bo3bo$3b3obobo2bobob3o
$2bo3b2ob4ob2o3bo$3b2o3bo4bo3b2o$5b2o2bo2bo2b2o$5bob2o4b2obo!

[praosylen]

104P9, as described on the wiki, produces the correct type of spark. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to get the eater to work without destroying the oscillator.

Code: Select all

rle

Using an eater 2 weld instead of an eater 1 works:

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
3bob2o4b2obo$3b2o2bo2bo2b2o$b2o3bo4bo3b2o$o3b2ob4ob2o3bo$b3obobo2bobo
b3o$3bobob4obobo$5bo2b2o2bo$6b2o2b2o3$4b2o6b2o$4bobo4bobo$5b2o4b2o$8b
2o$3b5o2b5o$2bo12bo$3b3o6b3o$6bo4bo$3b3ob4ob3o$2bo2bo6bo2bobo$2b2o10b
2ob3o$6bo8bo4bo$10bo3bo2b3o$14bo2bo4$10b3o$10bo$10bo$14b2obo$8b2o4b2o
b3o$6bo4bo8bo$2b2o10b2ob3o$2bo2bo6bo2bobo$3b3ob4ob3o$6bo4bo$3b3o6b3o$
2bo12bo$3b5o2b5o$8b2o$5b2o4b2o$4bobo4bobo$4b2o6b2o3$6b2o2b2o$5bo2b2o2b
o$3bobob4obobo$b3obobo2bobob3o$o3b2ob4ob2o3bo$b2o3bo4bo3b2o$3b2o2bo2b
o2b2o$3bob2o4b2obo!

Nice find!

[wwei23]

Congratulations!

[MathAndCode]

This can probably be revisited, although it won't be tiny.

Can this be made into a tiny P18?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$5b3o$5bobo$5bo!

Note that a W-pentomino with a single extra cell (disconnected from the pentomino) becomes another R-pentomino in exactly the right position. If we can get a P2, P3, P6, or P9 to provide that extra cell without destroying the rest of the pattern, we have a P18.

A spark in a different place would result in a p22, but getting the spark in the right place would be much more difficult.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 10, rule = Conway's Life
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$6b2o$7b2o$8bo$7bo!

Edit: Actually, it's much more plausible than I initially thought because the dot spark can come in two places.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 10, rule = Conway's Life
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$6b2o$7b2o$8bo$6bo!

This means that we can use a p11 oscillator instead of a p22 flipper. Are there any p11 sparkers that work?

[praosylen]

A spark in a different place would result in a p22, but getting the spark in the right place would be much more difficult.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 10, rule = Conway's Life
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$6b2o$7b2o$8bo$7bo!

Edit: Actually, it's much more plausible than I initially thought because the dot spark can come in two places.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 10, rule = Conway's Life
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o6b2o3$6b2o$7b2o$8bo$6bo!

This means that we can use a p11 oscillator instead of a p22 flipper. Are there any p11 sparkers that work?

I've seen this reaction before — maybe multiple times, even. The problem with it is that there's no clear way to get the spark in because the hassled R emits its own spark at exactly the wrong time to allow a new spark in that doesn't come from some ridiculously complicated sparker of a type that isn't known yet whose spark happens to interfere with the R's to produce a dot in the right place. Whether it's p11 or p22 it's very unlikely in my opinion that a findable stabilization exists without resorting to plugging it into WLS/JLS as a partial and waiting the million years or so it takes to complete a custom p11/p22 section to finish it.

[MathAndCode]

What is the longest-lasting three-glider methuselah? What about the longest-lasting four-glider methuselah?

[wwei23]

The problem with it is that there's no clear way to get the spark in because the hassled R emits its own spark at exactly the wrong time to allow a new spark in that doesn't come from some ridiculously complicated sparker of a type that isn't known yet whose spark happens to interfere with the R's to produce a dot in the right place.

Not saying that this is practical by any means, but one might be able to use the R's spark to HELP insert the restoring spark.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
o12bo$3o8b3o$3bo6bo$2b2o7bo$7bo3bo$7bo$5bo$5bo5bo$5bo4bo$8bo2$5b3obo$
3b2o3bo$10bo!

[MathAndCode]

Not saying that this is practical by any means, but one might be able to use the R's spark to HELP insert the restoring spark.

I think that that's the only option.

[goldenratio]

What is the longest-lasting three-glider methuselah? What about the longest-lasting four-glider methuselah?

For 3 gliders, this is the longest I know of (10772 generations):

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
20bo$18b2o$19b2o23$2bo$obo$b2o2bo$5bobo$5b2o!

from this post

Given that we aren't even close to done with four-glider collision enumeration, I don't think anyone knows the longest-lasting 4-glider collision.

[wwei23]

For 3 gliders, this is the longest I know of (10772 generations):

Can't this be lengthened trivially?

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
78bo$76b2o$77b2o81$2bo$obo$b2o2bo$5bobo$5b2o!

[MathAndCode]

Can't this be lengthened trivially?

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
78bo$76b2o$77b2o81$2bo$obo$b2o2bo$5bobo$5b2o!

not if one only starts counting from when the last glider first interacts (so it only counts as lasting for 10,767 generations). Of course, one could get around that with kickback reactions (although not for three gliders), but that can be fixed by a better definition of trivial.

[Hunting]

Can't this be lengthened trivially?

Code: Select all

x = 79, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
78bo$76b2o$77b2o81$2bo$obo$b2o2bo$5bobo$5b2o!

not if one only starts counting from when the last glider first interacts (so it only counts as lasting for 10,767 generations). Of course, one could get around that with kickback reactions (although not for three gliders), but that can be fixed by a better definition of trivial.

Never try to define "trivial", it's a black hole. Do 1. give up such questions and 2. use the 2718281828 methuselah definition.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

not if one only starts counting from when the last glider first interacts (so it only counts as lasting for 10,767 generations). Of course, one could get around that with kickback reactions (although not for three gliders), but that can be fixed by a better definition of trivial.

Never try to define "trivial", it's a black hole. Do 1. give up such questions and 2. use the 2718281828 methuselah definition.

What is that definition?

[Hunting]

not if one only starts counting from when the last glider first interacts (so it only counts as lasting for 10,767 generations). Of course, one could get around that with kickback reactions (although not for three gliders), but that can be fixed by a better definition of trivial.

Never try to define "trivial", it's a black hole. Do 1. give up such questions and 2. use the 2718281828 methuselah definition.

What is that definition?

Two methuselahs are trivial variations of each other if their first max population is reached with the same pattern.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Very sorry if this is a stupid question but a while ago I downloaded ikpx2 and I've never been able to run it yet because I simply cannot figure out how to get it running. In the README file it says

## Quick start

To build `ikpx2` for the default rule (B3/S23), simply run:

./recompile.sh

Where do I put this exactly? I tried running it in the command prompt, both with and without the period and/or space, nothing worked. I don't know where else I can put this.

[creeperman7002]

Where do I put this exactly? I tried running it in the command prompt, both with and without the period and/or space, nothing worked. I don't know where else I can put this.

Do you have Cygwin installed? If not, install Cygwin and the required packages. Then try to build ikpx2 there.

If that didn't fix the problem, then sorry, I cannot help you with this.

[C28]

what is the name of this pattern?

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 121, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o
2$3o$bo$b3o!

[Hunting]

what is the name of this pattern?

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 121, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o
2$3o$bo$b3o!

It is a dirty crawler, so a name is not worthy.

[C28]

what is the name of this pattern?

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 121, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o22$6b2o$6b2o
2$3o$bo$b3o!

It is a dirty crawler, so a name is not worthy.

oh...

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Do you have Cygwin installed? If not, install Cygwin and the required packages. Then try to build ikpx2 there.

If that didn't fix the problem, then sorry, I cannot help you with this.

After I select the required packages on the compiling tutorial page and click next, it downloads for a while but then gives an error saying that a bunch of packages could not be downloaded. On the page, it says I should include their dependencies when asked, maybe that's the problem? I'm looking here for help, and this is what is says:

Since setup.exe automatically selects dependencies, be careful not to unselect any required packages.

[bubblegum]

Do you have Cygwin installed? If not, install Cygwin and the required packages. Then try to build ikpx2 there.

If that didn't fix the problem, then sorry, I cannot help you with this.

After I select the required packages on the compiling tutorial page and click next, it downloads for a while but then gives an error saying that a bunch of packages could not be downloaded. On the page, it says I should include their dependencies when asked, maybe that's the problem? I'm looking here for help, and this is what is says:

Since setup.exe automatically selects dependencies, be careful not to unselect any required packages.

Delete and redownload the installer (just in case), keep hitting Next (remember to choose a mirror though) until you get to the packages. Select (only, do not touch the others) git, make, gcc-g++ and (python2 or python3).

I'm getting these instructions from https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/apgmera. Check https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/ikpx2 for further instructions.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Delete and redownload the installer (just in case), keep hitting Next (remember to choose a mirror though) until you get to the packages. Select (only, do not touch the others) git, make, gcc-g++ and (python2 or python3).

I'm getting these instructions from https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/apgmera. Check https://gitlab.com/apgoucher/ikpx2 for further instructions.

Should I also look at the compiling tutorial? It says you should also include the make package. It doesn't mention python or git either.

[bubblegum]

Should I also look at the compiling tutorial? It says you should also include the make package. It doesn't mention python or git either.

Don't. That's gfind. Besides, the tutorials are all horribly outdated.