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Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

Postby dvgrn » October 21st, 2018, 9:26 am

chris_c wrote:One of these days I should try slmake and Gol_destroy on the 0hd Demonoid. From briefly looking in the past it should give close to a 50% improvement. The problem is the possibility of collisions when the construction is taking place near the arm which need quite a bit of manual work to avoid.

Freeze-dried Slow Salvos, Finally?
One slightly more expensive way to avoid all the manual work would be to use slmake to compile a slow salvo to build the whole Demonoid, or just the difficult part, from the far side of the construction-arm lane.

Compile slmake's output salvo with the freeze-dry script, and then compile the output of _that_ script with slmake. Then just trigger the seed constellation, and leave a long enough gap for the tricky construction to be completed. Easy! ... or at least a lot easier than all that clever stuff you put together by hand last time.

Unnecessary Tangent
It's probably worth looking at the true knightship Geminoid again, too. Being able to come up with easy self-destruct circuits with GoL-destroy, and then compile the result with slmake, makes these kinds of constructions really amazingly easy.

Which Circuitry, Though?
What were you thinking of as a base circuit for a 50%-reduced Demonoid, though? The old constructor-reflector has a repeat time of 153 -- seems like that could be improved, though I guess not at the cost of increasing the population or still-life count. Slower might even be fine if there's something really small.

Technically we'd only need a transparent output lane for the construction arm, not necessarily an edge shooter. In practice it seems hard to beat the NW31, though. With most other glider sources, a large number of 0hd recipes would have to be thrown away, because gliders couldn't be built close enough together.

When I try to build a candidate for half-0hd Demonoid circuitry, I keep ending up with big and kind of old-fashioned-looking stuff:

x = 190, y = 225, rule = LifeHistory
122.3B$121.4B$120.4B$119.4B$118.4B$117.4B$117.4B$116.5B$113.9B$113.9B
$113.9B$113.10B$112.12B45.A$111.13B8.2A33.3A$112.11B9.A15.A17.A3B6.2A
3.2A$113.12B4.BA.A15.3A14.B2AB6.B2AB.B2AB$113.15B.B2A19.A12.4B4.B3.3B
2.2B$113.17B20.2A11.4B3.4B.3B.3B$113.17B20.B11.13B.7B5.2A$110.B.17B
19.3B9.23B5.A$109.2A19B16.6B4.8B.19B.BA.A$109.2AB.19B11.10B2.29B.B2A$
110.B4.20B2.2B3.44B$115.16BD15B2A3BD33B$115.9B.4BDBD15B2A2B2D33B$116.
7B2.4B3D18B2D33B$116.7B2.4BD21BD31B$116.6B4.26BD32B$116.7B10.4B.13B4.
25B3.2A$116.6B12.3B5.B.7B4.B4.20B3.A$115.7B13.4B15.2A7.15B6.3A$116.6B
15.2A15.A12.11B8.A$117.5B15.A17.3A8.13B$117.6B15.3A16.A7.15B$119.4B
17.A23.16B$118.B2A2B40.17B$119.2A43.16B$165.13B$165.5B2A2B.4B$167.3B
2A2B2.4B$167.8B2.B2AB$166.3B3D2B4.A3B$166.4BD3B5.3AB$166.2B3D2B7.BA2B
$166.7B8.4B$167.6B$167.6B$168.5B$168.6B$167.6B$167.7B$168.6B$168.6B$
168.6B$167.8B$166.8B$166.9B$166.9B$165.10B$165.3B2A5B$159.2A3.4B2A5B$
160.A3.11B$160.A.A7BD4B$161.2A2.4B3DB$166.2B2D2BD4.2A$167.6B4.A$167.
6B.BA.A$166.7B.B2A$167.8B$160.A6.7B$114.A45.3A4.7B$114.3A34.A11.A2.7B
4.B$101.2A3.2A6.3BA17.A15.3A8.2A3.6B.B.2BA$100.B2AB.B2AB6.B2AB14.3A
18.A7.15BA.A$101.2B2.3B3.B4.4B12.A20.2A3.B5.7BD4B.BA$102.3B.3B.4B3.4B
11.2A19.8B2.7B3D3B$94.2A5.7B.13B11.B21.15BD5B$95.A5.23B9.3B19.20B$95.
A.AB.19B.8B4.6B16.19B$96.2AB.29B2.10B11.21B$98.44B3.2B2.25B$98.33BD3B
2A15BD14B4.4B$98.33B2D2B2A15BDBD4B.6B6.4B$99.33B2D18B3D4B2.B.5B5.4B$
101.31BD21BD4B7.2A6.4B$99.32BD26B8.A8.4B$99.2A3.25B4.13B.4B16.3A6.4B$
100.A3.20B4.B4.7B.B5.3B19.A7.4B$97.3A6.15B7.2A17.2B29.4B$97.A8.11B12.
A15.2A32.4B$105.13B8.3A17.A33.2B$104.15B7.A16.3A35.B$104.16B23.A$103.
18B$28.3B73.16B$27.4B75.13B$26.4B75.4B.2B2A5B$25.4B75.4B2.2B2A3B$24.
4B76.2AB2.8B$23.4B75.3BA4.2B3D3B$23.4B74.B3A5.3BD4B$22.5B73.2BAB7.2B
3D2B$19.9B71.4B8.7B$19.9B75.A7.6B$19.9B74.A.A6.6B$19.10B73.A.A6.5B$
18.12B45.A24.3A.2A4.6B$17.13B8.2A33.3A23.A4.B6.6B$18.11B9.A15.A17.A3B
6.2A3.2A11.3AB2AB3.7B$19.12B4.BA.A15.3A14.B2AB6.B2AB.B2AB12.A.2AB.8B$
19.15B.B2A19.A12.4B4.B3.3B2.2B17.10B$19.17B20.2A11.4B3.4B.3B.3B18.6B
2A3B$19.17B20.B11.13B.7B5.2A10.6B2A2B5.2A$16.B.17B19.3B9.23B5.A11.10B
5.A$15.2A19B16.6B4.8B.19B.BA.A10.11B2.BA.A$15.2AB.19B11.10B2.29B.B2A
11.12B.B2A$16.B4.20B2.2B3.44B12.15B$21.16BD15B2A3BD33B11.16B$21.9B.4B
DBD15B2A2B2D33B8.2B.16B$22.7B2.4B3D18B2D33B8.2A18B$22.7B2.4BD21BD31B
10.2AB.17B$22.6B4.26BD32B9.B.4B.8B2.4B$22.7B10.4B.13B4.25B3.2A16.7B4.
4B$22.6B12.3B5.B.7B4.B4.20B3.A18.6B5.4B$21.7B13.4B15.2A7.15B6.3A17.4B
6.4B$22.6B15.2A15.A12.11B8.A19.3BA5.2B2D$23.5B15.A17.3A8.13B28.BA.A5.
BD.D$23.6B15.3A16.A7.15B28.A.A6.D$25.4B17.A23.16B29.A$24.B2A2B40.17B
30.3A$25.2A43.16B32.A$71.13B$71.5B2A2B.4B$73.3B2A2B2.4B$73.8B2.B2AB$
72.3B3D2B4.A3B$72.4BD3B5.3AB$72.2B3D2B8.A2B$72.7B8.4B$73.6B$73.6B$74.
5B$74.6B$73.6B$73.7B$74.6B$74.6B$74.6B$73.8B$72.8B$72.9B$72.9B$71.10B
$71.3B2A5B$65.2A3.4B2A5B$66.A3.11B$66.A.A7BD4B$67.2A2.4B3DB$72.2B2D2B
D4.2A$73.6B4.A$73.6B.BA.A$72.7B.B2A$73.8B$66.A6.7B$20.A45.3A4.7B$20.
3A34.A11.A2.7B4.B$7.2A3.2A6.3BA17.A15.3A8.2A3.6B.B.2BA$6.B2AB.B2AB6.B
2AB14.3A18.A7.15BA.A$7.2B2.3B3.B4.4B12.A20.2A3.B5.7BD4B.BA$8.3B.3B.4B
3.4B11.2A19.8B2.7B3D3B$2A5.7B.13B11.B21.15BD5B$.A5.23B9.3B19.20B$.A.A
B.19B.8B4.6B16.19B$2.2AB.29B2.10B11.21B$4.44B3.2B2.25B$4.33BD3B2A15BD
14B4.4B$4.33B2D2B2A15BDBD4B.6B6.4B$5.33B2D18B3D4B2.B.5B5.4B$7.31BD21B
D4B7.2A6.4B$5.32BD26B8.A8.4B$5.2A3.25B4.13B.4B16.3A6.4B$6.A3.20B4.B4.
7B.B5.3B19.A7.4B$3.3A6.15B7.2A17.2B29.4B$3.A8.11B12.A15.2A32.4B$11.
13B8.3A17.A33.2B$10.15B7.A16.3A35.B$10.16B23.A$9.18B$10.16B$12.13B$
11.4B.2B2A5B$10.4B2.2B2A3B$10.2AB2.8B$8.3BA4.2B3D3B$7.B3A5.3BD4B$6.2B
AB7.2B3D2B$5.4B8.7B$9.A7.6B$8.A.A6.6B$8.A.A6.5B$6.3A.2A4.6B$5.A4.B6.
6B$6.3AB2AB3.7B$8.A.2AB.8B$12.10B$12.6B2A3B$12.6B2A2B5.2A$12.10B5.A$
11.11B2.BA.A$11.12B.B2A$10.15B$9.16B$6.2B.16B$5.2A18B$5.2AB.17B$6.B.
4B.8B2.4B$13.7B4.4B$14.6B5.4B$16.4B6.4B$18.3BA5.2B2D$19.BA.A5.BD.D$
20.A.A6.D$21.A$22.3A$24.A!

It's certainly possible to go smaller, and even be HashLife-friendly while we're at it:

x = 282, y = 169, rule = LifeHistory
243.2A$243.A.A$245.A4.2A$241.4A.2A2.A2.A$241.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$243.BABABA
.A$244.B2ABA.A$245.2B.BA$244.3B$235.2A6.4B2.4B$236.A6.B2A6B$236.A.AB
3.B2A5B$237.2AB.10B$239.13B$239.14B$239.15B$241.8B2.4B$241.6B5.4B$
240.9B4.3B$239.4B4.2A5.2B$238.4B5.A7.B$237.4B7.3A$236.4B10.A$134.A
100.4B$134.3A97.4B$77.3B57.A95.4B$76.4B56.2A94.4B$75.4B57.5B8.A81.4B$
74.4B60.4B5.3A80.4B$73.4B59.7B3.A82.4B$72.4B59.9B2.2A80.4B$72.4B18.A
38.11B.3B2.B10.B4.A11.2A47.4B$71.5B18.3A36.13B3.3B8.2B3.A.A9.B2AB45.
4B$68.9B20.A22.A11.2A18B7.3B3.A.A9.3B45.4B$68.9B19.2A20.3A11.2A18B6.B
2AB.3A.2A9.B.B43.4B$68.9B19.4B17.A15.B.18B4.2BAB.A4.B8.5B42.4B$68.10B
20.3B16.2A17.18B2.BABA3.3AB2A6.6B41.4B$67.12B18.4B33.20B.2B2A6.A.2A4.
8B40.4B$66.13B8.2A8.5B12.B7.B.7B2.25B9.13B40.4B$67.11B9.A8.6B11.2B.B.
13B2.24B12.13B37.4B$68.12B4.BA.A8.8B2.26BD23B12.15B35.4B$68.15B.B2A8.
14BD21BD23B2.B10.15B34.4B$68.17B11.13B3D18B2D28B5.B.17B32.4B$68.17B
12.7B.4BDBD15B2A2B2D51B31.4B$65.B.17B12.15BD15B2A3BD22B2ABD11B2A13B
29.4B$64.2A19B11.19B2.2B3.11B.21B2AB3D9B2A14B27.4B$64.2AB.19B8.17B11.
10B2.23BDBD20B3.B2A25.4B$65.B4.20B2.2B.15B16.6B3.25BD19B4.A2.A23.4B$
70.16BD22B19.3B5.28B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A21.4B$70.9B.4BDBD13B.8B21.B4.13B
.7B2.4B13.6B7.A20.4B$71.7B2.4B3D9B2A2B3.8B19.2A3.13B2.6B17.9B6.2A13.B
4.4B16.A11.2A$71.7B2.4BD11B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A5.11B3.3B19.2A4.4B19.3B2.4B
16.A.A9.B2AB$71.6B4.18B10.A18.3A8.9B4.B21.A5.4B10.2A5.9B17.A.A9.3B$
71.7B10.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A10.8B24.3A7.4B10.A4.9B12.2A2.3A.2A9.B.B$71.6B
12.3B20.A26.8B24.A10.4B9.A.AB.8B13.A2.A4.B8.5B$70.7B13.4B47.6B36.B3D
9.2AB.9B3.4B2.BA.A3.3AB2A6.6B$71.6B15.2A47.5B38.D3B10.11B2.5B2.B2A6.A
.2A4.8B$72.5B15.A50.3B39.D3B9.11B2.8B10.13B$72.6B15.3A90.4B8.21B12.
13B$74.4B17.A91.4B8.19B12.15B$73.B2A2B110.4B6.19B2.B10.15B$74.2A113.
4B3.26B5.B.17B$190.4B.51B$191.4B.21B2A13B2A13B$179.2A11.25B2A13B2A14B
$179.A.A11.50B3.B2A$181.A4.2A6.48B4.A2.A$177.4A.2A2.A2.A3.33B2.2B2.B
3.6B5.2A.A$177.A2.A.A.A.A.2A3.16B2.7B2.4B13.6B7.A$179.BABABA.A6.16B3.
6B17.9B6.2A$180.B2ABA.A7.14B5.3B19.2A4.4B$181.2B.BA11.9B.3B4.B21.A5.
4B$180.3B14.8B3.2A23.3A7.4B$171.2A6.4B15.4B6.A24.A10.4B$172.A6.B2A3B
15.4B5.3A33.4B$172.A.AB3.B2A3B17.2A7.A34.4B$173.2AB.10B15.A44.4B$175.
13B15.3A42.4B$175.14B16.A43.4B$175.15B60.4B$177.8B2.4B60.4B$177.6B5.
4B60.4B$176.9B4.4B60.4B$175.4B4.2A5.4B60.4B$174.4B5.A7.4B60.4B$173.4B
7.3A5.4B60.4B$172.4B10.A6.4B60.4B$70.A100.4B19.4B60.4B$70.3A97.4B21.
4B60.4B$13.3B57.A95.4B23.4B60.4B$12.4B56.2A94.4B25.4B60.4B$11.4B57.5B
8.A81.4B27.4B60.4B$10.4B60.4B5.3A80.4B29.4B60.4B$9.4B59.7B3.A82.4B31.
4B60.4B$8.4B59.9B2.2A80.4B33.4B60.4B$8.4B18.A38.11B.3B2.B10.B4.A11.2A
47.4B35.4B60.4B$7.5B18.3A36.13B3.3B8.2B3.A.A9.B2AB45.4B37.4B60.4B$4.
9B20.A22.A11.2A18B7.3B3.A.A9.3B45.4B39.4B60.4B$4.9B19.2A20.3A11.2A18B
6.B2AB.3A.2A9.B.B43.4B41.4B60.4B$4.9B19.4B17.A15.B.18B4.2BAB.A4.B8.5B
42.4B43.4B60.4B$4.10B20.3B16.2A17.18B2.BABA3.3AB2A6.6B41.4B45.4B60.4B
$3.12B18.4B33.20B.2B2A6.A.2A4.8B40.4B47.4B60.4B$2.13B8.2A8.5B12.B7.B.
7B2.25B9.13B40.4B49.4B60.4B$3.11B9.A8.6B11.2B.B.13B2.24B12.13B37.4B
51.4B60.4B$4.12B4.BA.A8.8B2.26BD23B12.15B35.4B53.4B60.4B$4.15B.B2A8.
14BD21BD23B2.B10.15B34.4B55.4B60.4B$4.17B11.13B3D18B2D28B5.B.17B32.4B
57.4B60.4B$4.17B12.7B.4BDBD15B2A2B2D51B31.4B59.4B60.4B$.B.17B12.15BD
15B2A3BD22B2ABD11B2A13B29.4B61.4B60.3B$2A19B11.19B2.2B3.11B.21B2AB3D
9B2A14B27.4B63.4B60.2B$2AB.19B8.17B11.10B2.23BDBD20B3.B2A25.4B65.4B
60.B$.B4.20B2.2B.15B16.6B3.25BD19B4.A2.A23.4B67.4B$6.16BD22B19.3B5.
28B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A21.4B69.4B$6.9B.4BDBD13B.8B21.B4.13B.7B2.4B13.6B
7.A20.4B71.4B$7.7B2.4B3D9B2A2B3.8B19.2A3.13B2.6B17.9B6.2A13.B4.4B16.A
11.2A43.4B$7.7B2.4BD11B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A5.11B3.3B19.2A4.4B19.3B2.4B16.A
.A9.B2AB43.4B$7.6B4.18B10.A18.3A8.9B4.B21.A5.4B10.2A5.9B17.A.A9.3B45.
4B$7.7B10.4B.3B.B12.3A15.A10.8B24.3A7.4B10.A4.9B12.2A2.3A.2A9.B.B45.
4B$7.6B12.3B20.A26.8B24.A10.4B9.A.AB.8B13.A2.A4.B8.5B46.4B$6.7B13.4B
47.6B36.B3D9.2AB.9B3.4B2.BA.A3.3AB2A6.6B47.4B$7.6B15.2A47.5B38.D3B10.
11B2.5B2.B2A6.A.2A4.8B48.4B$8.5B15.A50.3B39.D3B9.11B2.8B10.13B50.4B$
8.6B15.3A90.4B8.21B12.13B49.4B$10.4B17.A91.4B8.19B12.15B49.4B$9.B2A2B
110.4B6.19B2.B10.15B50.4B$10.2A113.4B3.26B5.B.17B50.4B$126.4B.51B51.
4B$127.4B.21B2A13B2A13B51.4B$128.25B2A13B2A14B51.4B$129.50B3.B2A51.4B
$130.48B4.A2.A51.4B$129.33B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A51.4B$129.16B2.7B2.4B13.
6B7.A52.4B$129.16B3.6B17.9B6.2A52.4B$130.14B5.3B19.2A4.4B60.4B$133.9B
.3B4.B21.A5.4B60.4B$133.8B3.2A23.3A7.4B60.4B$134.4B6.A24.A10.4B60.4B$
136.4B5.3A33.4B60.3B$138.2A7.A34.4B60.2B$138.A44.4B60.B$139.3A42.4B$
141.A43.4B$186.4B$187.4B$188.4B$189.4B$190.4B$191.4B$192.4B$193.4B$
194.4B$195.4B$196.4B$197.4B$198.4B$199.4B$200.4B$201.4B$202.4B$203.4B
$204.4B$205.4B$206.4B$207.4B$208.4B$209.2B2A$210.BA.A$211.A3B!

or even
x = 196, y = 210, rule = LifeHistory
77.3B$76.4B$75.4B$74.4B$73.4B$72.4B$72.4B$71.5B$68.9B$68.9B$68.9B$68.
10B$67.12B45.A$66.13B8.2A33.3A$67.11B9.A15.A17.A3B6.2A3.2A$68.12B4.BA
.A15.3A14.B2AB6.B2AB.B2AB$68.15B.B2A19.A12.4B4.B3.3B2.2B$68.17B20.2A
11.4B3.4B.3B.3B$68.17B20.B11.13B.7B5.2A$65.B.17B19.3B9.23B5.A$64.2A
19B16.6B4.8B.19B.BA.A$64.2AB.19B11.10B2.29B.B2A$65.B4.20B2.2B3.44B$
70.16BD15B2A3BD33B$70.9B.4BDBD15B2A2B2D33B$71.7B2.4B3D18B2D33B$71.7B
2.4BD21BD31B$71.6B4.26BD32B$71.7B10.4B.13B4.25B3.2A$71.6B12.3B5.B.7B
4.B4.20B3.A$70.7B13.4B15.2A7.15B6.3A$71.6B15.2A15.A12.11B8.A$72.5B15.
A17.3A8.13B$72.6B15.3A16.A7.15B$74.4B17.A23.16B$73.B2A2B40.18B$74.2A
43.16B$120.13B$120.5B2A2B.4B$122.3B2A2B2.4B$122.8B2.B2A$121.3B3D2B4.A
3B46.2A$121.4BD3B5.3AB45.A.A$121.2B3D2B7.BA2B46.A4.2A$121.7B8.4B41.4A
.2A2.A2.A$122.6B7.A45.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$122.6B6.A.A46.BABABA.A$123.5B6.A.
A47.B2ABA.A$123.6B4.2A.3A46.2B.BA$122.6B6.B4.A44.3B$122.7B3.B2AB3A36.
2A6.4B$123.8B.B2A.A39.A6.B2A3B$123.10B43.A.AB3.B2A3B$122.3B2A6B44.2AB
.10B$116.2A5.2B2A6B46.13B$117.A5.10B46.14B$117.A.AB2.11B45.15B$118.2A
B.12B47.8B2.4B$120.15B46.6B5.4B$120.16B44.9B4.3B$120.16B.2B40.4B4.2A
5.2B$120.18B2A38.4B5.A7.B$119.17B.B2A37.4B7.3A$118.4B2.8B.4B.B37.4B
10.A$13.3B101.4B4.7B43.4B$12.4B100.4B5.6B43.4B$11.4B100.4B6.4B44.4B$
10.4B100.2D2B5.A3B45.4B$9.4B100.D.DB5.A.AB45.4B$8.4B103.D6.A.A45.4B$
8.4B111.A45.4B$7.5B108.3A45.4B$4.9B84.2A10.4B7.A46.4B$4.9B85.A9.4B54.
4B$4.9B83.A10.4B54.4B$4.10B82.5A5.4B5.2A47.4B$3.12B45.A40.A4.4B5.A47.
4B$2.13B8.2A33.3A37.3AB2.7B.BA.A46.4B$3.11B9.A15.A17.A3B6.2A3.2A23.A.
2B3.7B.B2A46.4B$4.12B4.BA.A15.3A14.B2AB6.B2AB.B2AB22.4A12B47.4B$4.15B
.B2A19.A12.4B4.B3.3B2.2B21.2A2.BA3B2A7B46.4B$4.17B20.2A11.4B3.4B.3B.
3B21.A2.3AB.2B2A7B45.4B$4.17B20.B11.13B.7B5.2A13.2A.A.B3.10B44.4B$.B.
17B19.3B9.23B5.A17.A8.8B42.4B$2A19B16.6B4.8B.19B.BA.A17.2A7.9B40.4B$
2AB.19B11.10B2.29B.B2A28.3B2.4B38.4B$.B4.20B2.2B3.44B28.5B3.3B37.4B$
6.16BD15B2A3BD33B28.2A7.2B36.4B$6.9B.4BDBD15B2A2B2D33B29.A8.B35.4B$7.
7B2.4B3D18B2D33B27.3A44.4B$7.7B2.4BD21BD31B29.A45.4B$7.6B4.26BD32B67.
B4.4B16.A11.2A$7.7B10.4B.13B4.25B3.2A66.3B2.4B16.A.A9.B2AB$7.6B12.3B
5.B.7B4.B4.20B3.A59.2A5.9B17.A.A9.3B$6.7B13.4B15.2A7.15B6.3A57.A4.9B
12.2A2.3A.2A9.B.B$7.6B15.2A15.A12.11B8.A57.A.AB.8B13.A2.A4.B8.5B$8.5B
15.A17.3A8.13B56.B9.2AB.9B3.4B2.BA.A3.3AB2A6.6B$8.6B15.3A16.A7.15B55.
2B10.11B2.5B2.B2A6.A.2A4.8B$10.4B17.A23.16B55.3B9.11B2.8B10.13B$9.B2A
2B40.18B54.4B8.21B12.13B$10.2A43.16B56.4B8.19B12.15B$56.13B59.4B6.19B
2.B10.15B$56.5B2A2B.4B59.4B3.26B5.B.17B$58.3B2A2B2.4B59.4B.51B$58.8B
2.B2A60.4B.21B2A13B2A13B$57.3B3D2B4.A3B46.2A11.25B2A13B2A14B$57.4BD3B
5.3AB45.A.A11.50B3.B2A$57.2B3D2B7.BA2B46.A4.2A6.48B4.A2.A$57.7B8.4B
41.4A.2A2.A2.A3.33B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A$58.6B7.A45.A2.A.A.A.A.2A3.16B2.
7B2.4B13.6B7.A$58.6B6.A.A46.BABABA.A6.16B3.6B17.9B6.2A$59.5B6.A.A47.B
2ABA.A7.14B5.3B19.2A4.4B$59.6B4.2A.3A46.2B.BA11.9B.3B4.B21.A5.4B$58.
6B6.B4.A44.3B14.8B3.2A23.3A7.4B$58.7B3.B2AB3A36.2A6.4B15.4B6.A24.A10.
4B$59.8B.B2A.A39.A6.B2A3B15.4B5.3A33.4B$59.10B43.A.AB3.B2A3B17.2A7.A
34.4B$58.3B2A6B44.2AB.10B15.A44.4B$52.2A5.2B2A6B46.13B15.3A42.4B$53.A
5.10B46.14B16.A43.4B$53.A.AB2.11B45.15B60.4B$54.2AB.12B47.8B2.4B60.4B
$56.15B46.6B5.4B60.4B$56.16B44.9B4.4B60.3B$56.16B.2B40.4B4.2A5.4B60.
2B$56.18B2A38.4B5.A7.4B60.B$55.17B.B2A37.4B7.3A5.4B$54.4B2.8B.4B.B37.
4B10.A6.4B$53.4B4.7B43.4B19.4B$52.4B5.6B43.4B21.4B$51.4B6.4B44.4B23.
4B$50.2D2B5.A3B45.4B25.4B$49.D.DB5.A.AB45.4B27.4B$51.D6.A.A45.4B29.4B
$59.A45.4B31.4B$56.3A45.4B33.4B$33.2A10.4B7.A46.4B35.4B$34.A9.4B54.4B
37.4B$32.A10.4B54.4B39.4B$32.5A5.4B5.2A47.4B41.4B$37.A4.4B5.A47.4B43.
4B$34.3AB2.7B.BA.A46.4B45.4B$33.A.2B3.7B.B2A46.4B47.4B$33.4A12B47.4B
49.4B$31.2A2.BA3B2A7B46.4B51.4B$30.A2.3AB.2B2A7B45.4B53.4B$30.2A.A.B
3.10B44.4B55.4B$33.A8.8B42.4B57.4B$33.2A7.9B40.4B59.4B$43.3B2.4B38.4B
61.4B$41.5B3.4B36.4B63.4B$41.2A7.4B34.4B65.4B$42.A8.4B32.4B67.4B$39.
3A10.3B31.4B69.4B$39.A13.2B30.4B71.4B$54.B24.B4.4B16.A11.2A43.4B$78.
3B2.4B16.A.A9.B2AB43.4B$70.2A5.9B17.A.A9.3B45.4B$71.A4.9B12.2A2.3A.2A
9.B.B45.4B$71.A.AB.8B13.A2.A4.B8.5B46.4B$72.2AB.9B3.4B2.BA.A3.3AB2A6.
6B47.4B$74.11B2.5B2.B2A6.A.2A4.8B48.4B$74.11B2.8B10.13B50.4B$65.B8.
21B12.13B49.4B$65.2B8.19B12.15B49.4B$65.3B6.19B2.B10.15B50.4B$65.4B3.
26B5.B.17B50.4B$66.4B.51B51.4B$67.4B.21B2A13B2A13B51.4B$68.25B2A13B2A
14B51.4B$69.50B3.B2A51.4B$70.48B4.A2.A51.4B$69.33B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A
51.4B$69.16B2.7B2.4B13.6B7.A52.4B$69.16B3.6B17.9B6.2A52.4B$70.14B5.3B
19.2A4.4B60.4B$73.9B.3B4.B21.A5.4B60.4B$73.8B3.2A23.3A7.4B60.4B$74.4B
6.A24.A10.4B60.4B$76.4B5.3A33.4B60.3B$78.2A7.A34.4B60.2B$78.A44.4B60.
B$79.3A42.4B$81.A43.4B$126.4B$127.4B$128.4B$129.4B$130.4B$131.4B$132.
4B$133.4B$134.4B$135.4B$136.4B$137.4B$138.4B$139.4B$140.4B$141.4B$
142.4B$143.4B$144.4B$145.4B$146.4B$147.4B$148.4B$149.2B2A$150.BA.A$
151.A3B!

but it seems like the Snarks might get expensive, and so the smallest possible 0hd Demonoid won't have them. (?)
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Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

Postby chris_c » October 21st, 2018, 9:46 am

dvgrn wrote:What were you thinking of as a base circuit for a 50%-reduced Demonoid, though? The old constructor-reflector has a repeat time of 153 -- seems like that could be improved, though I guess not at the cost of increasing the population or still-life count. Slower might even be fine if there's something really small.


I was thinking of using exactly the same constructor-reflector. I have tried but never been able to find anything obviously better. The geometry of the current 0hd-Demonoid is nice even though the repeat time is unsatisfyingly high. Like you say a bit later, it seems like Snarks are too expensive to appear in an "optimal" Demnoid. (By the way, my favourite definition of "optimal" is lowest period.)

EDIT: Maybe this one? But it still isn't obvious that the extra cost of construction is worth the benefit of going from repeat time 153 to 115.

x = 71, y = 142, rule = B3/S23
23b2o$23bo15bo$21bobo15b3o$21b2o19bo$41b2o3$2o56b2o4b2o$2o55bo2bo3b2o$
58b2o$38b2o$38b2o5$63b2o$63b2o$28b2o$28bo$29b3o$31bo35b2o$10b2o55bo$
10b2o53bobo$65b2o3$51b2o$50bobo$50bo$49b2o7$54b2o$55bo$52b3o$52bo5$46b
o$46b3o$49bo$48b2o14b2o$64b2o12$65b2o$65bobo$67bo$67b2o5$49b2o$48bobo$
48bo$47b2o7$57b2o$57b2o7b2o$66bo$64bobo$64b2o$47b2o$47b2o$37b2o$38bo$
38bobo$39b2o9$43b2o$42bobo$42bo$41b2o6$58b2o$58b2o$50b2o$51bo$48b3o$
48bo2$49bo$48bobo$48bobo$46b3ob2o$45bo$46b3ob2o$48bob2o2$58b2o$58b2o7b
2o$67bo$65bobo$65b2o4$45b2o$45b2o5$61bo6b3o$60bobo5bo$60bobo6bo$61bo$
62b3o$64bo!
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Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

Postby dvgrn » October 22nd, 2018, 5:57 pm

chris_c wrote:EDIT: Maybe this one? But it still isn't obvious that the extra cost of construction is worth the benefit of going from repeat time 153 to 115...

Ow. Population 177 instead of 126, but you can pack more elbow ops in, which will almost exactly make up for the expense.

126/177 = 0.712, but 115/153 = 0.752. Or if you go by number of still lifes instead of population, it's 21/28 = 0.75 exactly. That's a mighty close race as far as estimates go -- the only way to know for sure which one will come out smaller is to compile them both (which, fortunately, is not nearly as hard as it used to be).

However, there might be something within reach that's significantly smaller than either of those. 10hd construction arms are something like 25% more efficient that 0hd ones. Suppose we invented a seed constellation that converted a plain NW31 to one of those +10hd attachments?

We'd always build the NW31 version of the U.C., but each one would get magically converted to a +10hd attachment as soon as it moves from front position to back position, so the period would still be half of the old complicated 10hd model -- and we'd get the 25% efficiency advantage from using 10hd elbow recipes.

The idea of building a freeze-dried slow salvo for that part of the construction was already an option, to avoid the manual work that would otherwise be needed to build in the "danger zone". But probably the cost of the extra constellation would eat up pretty much all of the savings from using 10hd, so we might be back to a tossup again.
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Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

Postby calcyman » October 27th, 2018, 5:37 pm

dvgrn wrote:This new faster HashLife-friendly Demonoid uses the same circuitry as Scorbie's Demonoid but has a somewhat higher population, because it has to spend a lot of gliders to build its child copies at a safer distance.

[...]

I'm kind of curious to see if a Demonoid with a 16384fd step size would need only something like 250 megabytes to run away. It would presumably overflow 2^21 so would have to be 2^22, with quite a bit higher population... at least unless a little more technology is developed -- at that distance it might be effective to build a 2-engine Cordership to get the elbow block out to the right distance.


That 'little more technology' has now been developed, and now it should be possible to have a HashLife-friendly Demonoid with a population only slightly larger than Scorbie's Demonoid, and to get speeds arbitrarily close to c/12.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
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Re: Demonoid (diagonal Geminoid) completed!

Postby dvgrn » November 13th, 2018, 6:10 pm

calcyman wrote:That 'little more technology' has now been developed, and now it should be possible to have a HashLife-friendly Demonoid with a population only slightly larger than Scorbie's Demonoid, and to get speeds arbitrarily close to c/12.

Here's a Demonoid puffer traveling at c/128, for starters -- "only '8' away from c/12!". This is what slsparse compiles for you automatically now when you give it a Demonoid infile.mc with a step size of 16384. The minimum power-of-two period with this particular recipe is 2^21.

-- Or rather, this is _almost_ what slsparse compiles. You do have to manually add in an elbow duplicator at one point, so that the recipe leaves behind an elbow at the farthest forward location, for the child U.C. to pick up and use without wasting time building a Cordership.

From here it's doable, though maybe not easy without some practice, to hand-edit this pattern using recipes from previous Demonoids, so that it uses just one Snarkbreaker instead of two Snarkmakers followed by two Snarkbreakers. The Scorbie Splitter should really be built with normal 90-degree gliders. Then the final Snark can be built with 90-degree gliders from a different direction, after the Snarkbreaker. slsparse doesn't know how to do things that way yet, and that's what's making the recipe so much more expensive than the Scorbie's Demonoid one (~119,000 cells total instead of ~72,000).

Then that can be followed by some version of the standard cleanup method with *WSSes -- but with 2-engine Corderships to push the new elbow out the required distances. I haven't quite thought of how to trick slsparse into producing the two Cordermakers for that part of the recipe, but no doubt it can be done somehow.

I _think_ that the current recipe is close enough to being able to run at 2^20 instead of 2^21, once the two unnecessary Snarkmaker recipes have been removed. Might even get back to fitting in a forum posting in macrocell format.
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