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The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Axaj » January 2nd, 2011, 8:29 pm

Mats wrote:Well... A "normal" methuselah doesn't really stabilize eiter. It's bounding box for generation n is expanding forever. That's not really stable. So it's a matter of definition...


Well, methuselahs don't "stabilize" per se, but the generation count is decided when the population becomes cyclical.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » March 31st, 2011, 6:46 pm

I have run manual verification of the three unvalidated Methuselahs in the high 50 table.

My results are,

Ed, 27070 is 27057
Ed, 26780 is 26106
Schneelocke 26650 is 26188

The latter two were high estimates because a glider escaped from the active area shortly before stability.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Sokwe » March 31st, 2011, 9:46 pm

I have now confirmed these. The 27057-generation pattern is of particular interest, because it leads to the following 17-cell 27014-generation pattern:
#C 17-cell 27014-generation methuselah
#C found by "Ed" (March 8, 2011)
x = 29, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
5bo$b2o2b2o$3bo$2bo8$o$o$2o24bo$27b2o$24bobo$24bo!

The century predecessor can be replaced by either of these:
x = 16, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
4b2o5bo2b2o$2o2bo6bo2bo$2bo8bobo$bo!
-Matthias Merzenich
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » March 31st, 2011, 11:45 pm

Fascinating.
I see that the original soup search at generation 58 minus the irrelevant gliders, is identical to the 17 cell at generation 15.
The 43 difference is the same as 27057 minus 27014, and the century predecessors make it coincide with the evolution
of the area to the lower right.
I take it that the "century" is a known, frequently occurring construction and that you know about it.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Sokwe » April 1st, 2011, 3:03 am

ians wrote:I take it that the "century" is a known, frequently occurring construction and that you know about it.

Indeed, although the "predecessors" that I posted actually evolve into generation 2 of century rather than century itself. Century is among several commonly occurring, unstable patterns (such as the B-heptomino and R-heptomino). Patterns like this are interesting, as they can often be manipulated so as to reappear in a different location and with a orientation (this is the basic idea behind Herschel loops). For example A period-246 gun by David Buckingham, and a period-90 oscillator (diuresis) by David Eppstien are based on century:
x = 109, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
34b2o$33bo2bo$36bo$36bo$30bo3bobo$29bo3bobo$29bo4bo$30b4o$69bobo2bobo
20bobo2bobo$65b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$16bob3o48bobo2bobo
20bobo2bobo$15bo5b2o$18b4o67b2o$16b2o70bobo$2o85b2o$bo86b2o$bobo$2b2o
37b2o$41bo$39bobo$39b2o$88b2o$17b2o68b2o$16bobo69bobo$15b2o72b2o$16b2o
$69bobo2bobo20bobo2bobo$29b2o34b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o12b2obo2bo2bo2bob2o$
29b2o38bobo2bobo20bobo2bobo3$43bobo$44b2o$44bo$4b2o$4b2o2b2o$2b2obo2b
2o$2b3o3$3b2o$3b2o!

Note that In these cases, the actual pattern known as "century" never occurs, but generation 2 of century does. The following is the actual pattern that "century" refers to:
..oo
ooo.
.o..

Much of this information can be found on the Life wiki; however, it can be somewhat difficult to navigate if you do not already know what you are looking for.
-Matthias Merzenich
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 1st, 2011, 5:06 pm

Thank you for the above.
I put the first generation century in Golly and ran it. I can see that memorizing the sequence would be valuable.
I have never studied Life seriously, rather tinkered with it on and off over the years.
My introduction to Life was the article in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in Scientific American in 1970.
In 1982 I wrote Life in TI9900 assembler on an expanded TI99/4A. I used integer arithmetic on a 32768 square
and kept coordinate pairs in a table. For the first time, I saw the complete generation of the R-pentomino.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 2nd, 2011, 2:02 pm

Nathaniel,

Will you give us a Soup Search script with source to save locally?
Since your concern is tampering with the source in order to create false uploads,
you could omit the network source but publish the search.
I feel that we might be missing some gems below the arbitrary 20,000 generations limit.
Anyone finding a worthy soup could post the rle file to a forum.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 2nd, 2011, 7:35 pm

The unverified, Schneelocke 26,960 in the 50 high table - my manual number is 26945.

Why do not the owners themselves send in the actual number and thus help others verify?

Ian
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 3rd, 2011, 6:01 pm

Golly 2.2 running on Windows XP Professional 32 bits doesn't save the Soup Search files over 20k.
Golly has reported one file in the 20-21k generations range and one in 24-25.
I have searched the whole C drive for "Methus" and find only the Golly Methuselah folder.
They are being saved in ~/.golly on my ubuntu 10.04 64 bit machine.

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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Andrew » April 3rd, 2011, 6:25 pm

If the script is using getdir("data") to specify the location then the files should be here:

C:\Documents and Settings\your-user-name\Application Data\Golly\

I think this is normally a hidden folder so you need to turn on the appropriate Windows option to see/search those folders.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 3rd, 2011, 7:15 pm

Got them thank you.
I didn't know about hidden files and folders in XP.

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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 6th, 2011, 9:34 pm

Here's one of my saved Methuselahs that is an underestimate.
Of course I had hoped that it would run for another two thousand generations ;)
It was saved as 20490 and actually stabilizes at 21015.

x = 20, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
9bo5b2o$2o10bobobob2o$ob2obobo3bo6bo$bo4bo2bobo$b2o8bo6bo$b2obo2bobob
3ob4o$2b3o4b2o2b2obobo$3bo9bo2bo$2bo2b2o3b2o2bo3bo$bobob2o2bo6b4o$6bob
o2bo4bo2bo$bob2ob3o3b2obobo$ob4obobo2bo2bo2b2o$b4obo2bo2b4o2bo$b2obo2b
2o2b3o2b2o$o7bobo3b3obo$3bo3bo5bo$2b2o4b5o4b2o$b2o2b2o2bo3b3o$4o7b2o2b
obobo!
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby ians » April 21st, 2011, 1:01 pm

I make Schneelocke's 26630 at number 47, 26612.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby knightlife » May 1st, 2011, 4:26 am

I have finally found an 18-cell methuselah that breaks the 40K barrier, a goal I have had since my earlier post late last year:
#C 18-cell 40514-generation methuselah
#C based on Richard Wobus' 15-cell marvel
x = 78, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
77bo$77bo$77bo21$3o20$3bo$3bo$3bo5$20b3o$9b3o10bo$22bo$21bo!

The bounding box is only slightly larger at 78 x 54.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Lewis » June 10th, 2011, 3:48 am

Even though the Soup Search itself is down, could the table of Methuselahs found (and maybe even the census itself, depending on how much work needs doing to it) still be left on the site, as a reference?
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Nathaniel » June 10th, 2011, 9:50 am

Lewis wrote:Even though the Soup Search itself is down, could the table of Methuselahs found (and maybe even the census itself, depending on how much work needs doing to it) still be left on the site, as a reference?


I'll copy it over to a permanent location on the new server shortly. In the meantime, it can be viewed here: http://tripleplaycan.brinkster.net/soup/
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby BadKarma » June 15th, 2011, 5:48 am

Hello,

An (in)auspicious first post, possibly: when do you think the soup server will be back? I am looking forward to contributing cycles.

KR,
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby 137ben » June 15th, 2011, 8:02 am

Hello,

An (in)auspicious first post, possibly: when do you think the soup server will be back? I am looking forward to contributing cycles.

KR,
BadKarma

Unfortunately, the search script itself was fairly primitive in nature, and Nathaniel has said that he will not be bringing it back in the near future. If you have ideas for how to write a better script, then maybe it will come back.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby BadKarma » June 15th, 2011, 8:27 am

Unfortunately, while I grasp the concept of Life just fine, I am clueless about the intricacies of many things discussed or built. Neither do I know python. I do however like to watch patters evolve and like distributed search programs so I can donate cycles.

is there another program active that performs useful Life activity that I could donate cycles to?

EDIT: stand-alone search scripts that I could run on my machines, of which any useful output i'd have to send somewhere, would work too.

Thanks.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Lewis » June 15th, 2011, 12:50 pm

BadKarma wrote:Stand-alone search scripts that I could run on my machines, of which any useful output i'd have to send somewhere, would work too.


There is a game of life census screensaver which does the same as what the Soup Search script did but is limited to the standard life rule. I brought up the idea in this topic (http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=671), along with a download link. The screensaver can generate results on its own, or several result files from different computers can be combined into one larger set of statistics, what I'm currently doing.
If you're running the program on several computers, I'd recommend setting each one to run soups of different densities so the resulats can be merged easily.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby BadKarma » June 16th, 2011, 9:44 am

Had a look: ran the screensaver. Interesting. It is 'truly' a census, correct? Thank you for the suggestion!

I must say that I find the methuselah_density script from nathaniel's blog more interesting in that it actually generates 'starting positions' (.rle's) for insteresting object (outliers). More 'fun factor', if you will. Not to disregard your suggestion at all, mind.
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby Lewis » June 16th, 2011, 12:29 pm

BadKarma wrote:I must say that I find the methuselah_density script from nathaniel's blog more interesting in that it actually generates 'starting positions' (.rle's) for insteresting object (outliers). More 'fun factor', if you will. Not to disregard your suggestion at all, mind.


The LifeSS Screensaver saves the starting seeds for any patterns which go over 20,000 generations or have a final population of over 3000 cells. (The files are saved somewhere in C:\lifess\_found ). It also saves any soup which turns up a new pattern it hasn't encountered yet. When the edge is set to 20x20, many of the methuselahs can be trimmed down to about 30 cells (sometimes less).
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby BadKarma » June 16th, 2011, 2:18 pm

Awesome. Will activate it, then!
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Re: The Online Life-Like CA Soup Search

Postby c0b0p0 » April 29th, 2014, 6:00 pm

Are there any old copies of the soup search script that I could try to modify for use with 22da, which is a hexagonal rule? (I want to do a soup search in 22da for new oscillators and/or spaceships, and I do not want to start over from scratch. I do not want an already compiled program, either.)
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