Can someone run the potential 3c/14 front end through a search and see what might appear?
Code: Select all
x = 15, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
3b3o3b3o$2bo3bobo3bo$2bo3bobo3bo$2bo3bobo3bo$o2b3o3b3o2bo$o13bo$o13bo!
how do I even run gfind? I must know
Code: Select all
x = 15, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
3b3o3b3o$2bo3bobo3bo$2bo3bobo3bo$2bo3bobo3bo$o2b3o3b3o2bo$o13bo$o13bo!
I have been trying this to some extent. I have been using zfind at search-width 6 to look for a symmetric back end to each side that deletes the three extra blinkers. Unfortunately, the partials aren't too promising. Here is the current longest partial:muzik wrote:Can someone run the potential 3c/14 front end through a search and see what might appear?
Code: Select all
x = 23, y = 43, rule = B3/S23
8bo5bo$7b3o3b3o$7b3o3b3o4$3b3o11b3o$3bobo11bobo$3b3o11b3o3$4bo13bo$3bo
bo11bobo$2b2ob2o9b2ob2o$2b2ob2o9b2ob2o$3bobo11bobo$2b2ob2o9b2ob2o$2b2o
b2o9b2ob2o$4bo13bo2$4bo13bo$3bobo11bobo$2b2ob2o9b2ob2o$2b2ob2o9b2ob2o$
b2obob2o7b2obob2o$obo3bobo5bobo3bobo$o7bo5bo7bo$2bo3bo9bo3bo$obo3bobo
5bobo3bobo2$3o3b3o5b3o3b3o$bo5bo7bo5bo2$b2o3b2o7b2o3b2o$2obobob2o5b2ob
obob2o$2o5b2o5b2o5b2o$2b5o9b5o2$2bo3bo9bo3bo$2bobobo9bobobo$o3bo3bo5bo
3bo3bo$b2o3b2o7b2o3b2o$bobobobo7bobobobo!
You will need to compile it and run it through a command line interface. There are several threads on the scripts forum about compiling and running gfind. Unfortunately, for a 3c/14 search I think gfind will be too slow. zfind is probably the only program that can handle it in a reasonable length of time (zfind works will with a high period and small width).muzik wrote:how do I even run gfind?
Code: Select all
x = 18, y = 49, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$7b4o$3bob2ob2ob2obo$2bobo8bobo$bo2bob2o2b2obo2bo$bo4b2o2b2o4bo$bo
bob3o2b3obobo$b2o12b2o$3b3o2b2o2b3o$3b12o$2bo12bo$bo2bo2b4o2bo2bo$2bob
o3b2o3bobo$ob3obo4bob3obo$3b2o2bo2bo2b2o$b3o3bo2bo3b3o$bo14bo$b2o12b2o
$bo4bo4bo4bo$2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o$2b2o10b2o2$3bo2bo4bo2bo2$2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o$6bo4bo$4bo8bo$5b2o4b2o$3bob2o4b2obo$4bo8bo$5b2o4b2o$2bobo8bobo$2b3o
3b2o3b3o$6bo4bo$5b2o4b2o$2ob3o6b3ob2o$b4ob2o2b2ob4o$5bo6bo$3bobo6bobo$
3bobo6bobo$3bo3bo2bo3bo$5b2o4b2o$4bob2o2b2obo$2bobo2bo2bo2bobo$bobo2b
2o2b2o2bobo$2obo2b6o2bob2o$4obobo2bobob4o$5bob4obo$bo14bo!
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2bo$b3o$2ob2o$b3o$2bo2$b3o$b3o!
Code: Select all
x = 133, y = 95, rule = B3/S23
7bo13bo9bo13bo41bo13bo9bo13bo$6bobo11bobo7bobo11bobo39bobo11bobo7bobo
11bobo$6bobo11bobo7bobo11bobo39bobo11bobo7bobo11bobo$7bo13bo9bo13bo41b
o13bo9bo13bo2$6b3o11b3o7b3o11b3o39b3o11b3o7b3o11b3o$5bob2o3b2ob2o3b2ob
o5bob2o3b2ob2o3b2obo37bob2o3b2ob2o3b2obo5bob2o3b2ob2o3b2obo$6bo4bobobo
bo4bo7bo4bobobobo4bo39bo4bobobobo4bo7bo4bobobobo4bo$10b2obobob2o15b2ob
obob2o47b2obobob2o15b2obobob2o$11bobobobo17bobobobo49bobobobo17bobobob
o$13bobo21bobo53bobo21bobo$13bobo21bobo53bobo21bobo$8bo3b2ob2o3bo11bo
3b2ob2o3bo43bo3b2ob2o3bo11bo3b2ob2o3bo$8b3ob2ob2ob3o11b3ob2ob2ob3o43b
3ob2ob2ob3o11b3ob2ob2ob3o$12b2ob2o19b2ob2o51b2ob2o19b2ob2o$8b3o7b3o11b
3o7b3o43b3o7b3o11b3o7b3o$11b2o3b2o17b2o3b2o49b2o3b2o17b2o3b2o$8b2ob2o
3b2ob2o11b2ob2o3b2ob2o43b2ob2o3b2ob2o11b2ob2o3b2ob2o$10bobo3bobo15bobo
3bobo47bobo3bobo15bobo3bobo$8b2o4bo4b2o11b2o4bo4b2o43b2o4bo4b2o11b2o4b
o4b2o$8bo11bo11bo11bo43bo11bo11bo11bo$7bo13bo9bo13bo41bo13bo9bo13bo$9b
o9bo13bo9bo45bo9bo13bo9bo$7b2obo2b3o2bob2o9b2obo2b3o2bob2o41b2obo2b3o
2bob2o9b2obo2b3o2bob2o$7bo2b2ob3ob2o2bo9bo2b2ob3ob2o2bo41bo2b2ob3ob2o
2bo9bo2b2ob3ob2o2bo$7bob11obo9bob11obo41bob11obo9bob11obo2$7bo4bo3bo4b
o9bo4bo3bo4bo41bo4bo3bo4bo9bo4bo3bo4bo$12bo3bo19bo3bo51bo3bo19bo3bo$8b
o3b2ob2o3bo11bo3b2ob2o3bo43bo3b2ob2o3bo11bo3b2ob2o3bo$8b2o2b2ob2o2b2o
11b2o2b2ob2o2b2o43b2o2b2ob2o2b2o11b2o2b2ob2o2b2o$8b2o9b2o11b2o9b2o43b
2o9b2o11b2o9b2o$7b2o11b2o9b2o11b2o41b2o11b2o9b2o11b2o$7b2o11b2o9b2o11b
2o41b2o11b2o9b2o11b2o$10b2o2bo2b2o15b2o2bo2b2o47b2o2bo2b2o15b2o2bo2b2o
$10b2o2bo2b2o15b2o2bo2b2o47b2o2bo2b2o15b2o2bo2b2o$10b3obob3o15b3obob3o
47b3obob3o15b3obob3o4$10b3o3b3o15b3o3b3o47b3o3b3o15b3o3b3o$6b3ob3o3b3o
b3o7b3ob3o3b3ob3o39b3ob3o3b3ob3o7b3ob3o3b3ob3o$6b3ob2o5b2ob3o7b3ob2o5b
2ob3o39b3ob2o5b2ob3o7b3ob2o5b2ob3o2$8bo11bo11bo11bo43bo11bo11bo11bo$8b
o11bo11bo55bo11bo11bo$5bo5bo7b3o9b3o53b3o9b3o9b3o$3bo9bo5b2o11b2o6bo7b
o38b3o9b2o11b2o6bo7bo$3bo9bo6b3o7b3o5b2o9b2o36b3o10b3o7b3o5b2o9b2o$2bo
11bo4bo5b3o5bo4bobo2b3o2bobo48bo5b3o5bo4bobo2b3o2bobo$3b2ob5ob2o5bo5b
3o5bo5b3ob3ob3o49bo5b3o5bo5b3ob3ob3o$4bo7bo5bo3b3o3b3o3bo5bobo3bobo34b
o9bo4bo3b3o3b3o3bo5bobo3bobo$4bobobobobo6bob2obobobob2obo5b2o7b2o32bob
o3bo3bobo4bob2obobobob2obo5b2o7b2o$4bo7bo12b3o11b2o7b2o32bo2b3ob3o2bo
10b3o11b2o7b2o$4bo7bo27bo7bo71bo7bo$2b2o9b2o23bobo7bobo35b5o27bobo7bob
o$2b2o4bo4b2o22bo13bo65bo13bo$2b2ob2o3b2ob2o23b3o7b3o34bo5bo26b3o7b3o$
41bobobobo36b2o5b2o28bobobobo$6b2ob2o30bobobobo35bo9bo27bobobobo$5b3ob
3o29bo5bo33bo2bo7bo2bo25bo5bo$b2o3b2ob2o3b2o21b2o2bobobobo2b2o30b3o7b
3o22b2o2bobobobo2b2o$b2o11b2o21b2o11b2o31bobo5bobo23b2o11b2o$37b3o9b3o
32b2o5b2o24b3o9b3o$2bobo7bobo24bo9bo34b2o5b2o26bo9bo$3bo9bo25bo9bo31b
2o3bo3bo3b2o23bo9bo$38b2o9b2o29bo15bo21b2o9b2o$2b2o9b2o23bo11bo30bobo
9bobo22bo11bo$bo13bo21bobo9bobo31b2o7b2o23bobo9bobo$b2o11b2o21bobo9bob
o31b2o7b2o23bobo9bobo$2b2o9b2o22b3o9b3o30b2o9b2o22b3o9b3o$39bo9bo31bo
13bo23bo9bo$o3bo7bo3bo64bobo9bobo$4bo7bo23b2o13b2o27b2ob2o7b2ob2o19b2o
13b2o$2o13b2o20b2obo7bob2o29bob2o7b2obo21b2obo7bob2o$2b3o7b3o25bo7bo
34bo9bo26bo7bo$2b3o7b3o23bo3bo3bo3bo67bo3bo3bo3bo$4b4ob4o30bobo34b3o
11b3o26bobo$5bobobobo31bobo34b4o9b4o26bobo$4bo2bobo2bo28bobobobo33b2o
2bo5bo2b2o25bobobobo$6b2ob2o29b2obobob2o71b2obobob2o$3bobobobobobo29bo
bo40b2ob2o32bobo$4b3o3b3o26bo3bobo3bo37bobo29bo3bobo3bo$4b3o3b3o30bobo
38b2obobob2o30bobo$5b2o3b2o28bobo3bobo35b2obobob2o27bobo3bobo$40b2o5b
2o35bo2bobo2bo27b2o5b2o$bob2o7b2obo22b3o7b3o35b2ob2o27b3o7b3o$bo2bo7bo
2bo20b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o33b2ob2o25b2o2b2o5b2o2b2o$bo2bo7bo2bo68bobo3bobo$
37bo13bo65bo13bo$obo11bobo20bo13bo29b2o11b2o21bo13bo$bo13bo21bo13bo29b
2ob2o5b2ob2o21bo13bo$80b2o13b2o2$80b3o11b3o!
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
ob2o$3o$bo3$10bobo$10b2o$11bo!
c/26, yikes! I think that's probably a search you'll have to run yourself, if you want it done. And at that width, you'd better have a whole new search algorithm, or some really impressive computer hardware. As a rough guess, probably turning the entire mass of the Earth into computer chips wouldn't be enough.muzik wrote:Futile it may be, but could someone be as kind as to run this reaction through a c/26 orthogonal search (probably a glide symmetric 2c/52 one) to see if any interesting partials come up?
Right... according to the same probably-wrong estimation, we're looking at only 10^21 weeks to finish a period-14 spaceship, or about two quintillion decades of CPU time. Downright quick and easy, compared to the other one.muzik wrote:guess we should perhaps focused n finding that 3c/14 first.
It would certainly be an interesting thing to find. So far it doesn't seem to have been an interesting thing to look for, because nobody has figured out a workable way to automate a search for anything like that that has a population in the hundreds.muzik wrote:Do you reckon we might be able to find an "elementary replicator" <1000 cells, using the pre-pulsar reaction? We already have an engineerable replicator (the linear propagator) so looking for a small elementary replicator might be an interesting project, however you would do that.
Digg still exists?dvgrn wrote:-- Unless you count what Catagolue is doing, anyway. If there was a really small fast B3/S23 replicator, it might have showed up at the edge of a soup by now, and Catagolue would have collected it. The best plan I can think of for finding something like that would be to encourage everyone on Hacker News, Reddit, Digg and Slashdot to start running apgmera -- but if no sub-1000-cell replicator exists, we'll have a hard time ever knowing that for sure.
When did this happen? I've trying searching but C and 18 are too commonmuzik wrote:biggiemac's legendary tiny c/18 ship
It's from a post about how sad it would be for a soup to produce an unusual spaceship like a loafer or some new velocity, only for it to run into a blinker or something. c/18 was a velocity simply pulled out of thin air; there is nothing special about c/18, or any evidence that such a ship might exist. Maybe it does, but same thing could be said for a ship that fits in a rectangle of width 10 in at least one phase, length of under 200 cells long, and a velocity of (7,13)c/67 or something equally arbitrary. We don't really have a way to effectively search for these theoretical ships.drc wrote:When did this happen? I've trying searching but C and 18 are too commonmuzik wrote:biggiemac's legendary tiny c/18 ship
Code: Select all
x = 11, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
b5o$bo4bo$bo$2bo4bo$4bo$5b2o2bo$3bo2bo3bo$bo7bo$o5bo2bo$o3b2o$4o2b2o!
Code: Select all
x = 7, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o2bo$4bobo$4b2o!
Anyone who is considering spending weeks of time and effort setting up and running the search might care. Run a few of these searches yourself and you'll see why. If you don't define your searches very carefully so that they have the maximum odds of success, you're very likely spend the rest of your life running searches and never finding anything at all.muzik wrote:Can someone send the famous glider-pulling-block reaction through an oblique search and see what comes up?
(Hint: probably nothing interesting, but who cares)
I answered that question very specifically in my long-winded post yesterday:muzik wrote:However, I'd definitely like to see the unholy 2-number gap in the elementary spaceship speeds be filled in ASAP. How long should it take to discover our c/8 or c/9?
This suggests that a c/8 spaceship is likely to be within reach of a good distributed search, or even a few weeks of the otherwise unused cycles of some high-performance computing cluster somewhere ... but a c/9 ship would take either a very ambitious distributed search, or a few more years while we wait for Moore's Law to make things a little easier for us.Then a p8 spaceship search with the same methods will take about a thousand weeks [of CPU time], and a p9 search will take a million weeks.
If you believe my crackpot estimate, then just multiply by a thousand every time you increase the period by one. But don't believe my crackpot estimate -- or maybe use that as a base estimate but then think to yourself, "... plus or minus ten orders of magnitude."muzik wrote:So how long would c/11, c/12, 2c/9 and 2c/11 orthogonal take, respectively?
Because it's very very small, and symmetrical. You can try all the possible symmetrical patterns inside a 6x11 bounding box in a reasonable amount of time, and see if they move at c/10. That's a very different kind of search from finding, for example, the narrowest pattern that moves at 3c/7.muzik wrote:And how was the copperhead found so fast if it has such a high period?
Just... don't mention it, okay? I cry thinking about it.dvgrn wrote:...Not to increase your mental anguish about gaps, but why aren't you worried about the equally painful empty space between c/7 diagonal and c/12 diagonal?
Seems like diagonal ships are bigger on average than "equivalent" orthogonal ones -- the glider being the lonely B3/S23 counterxample that proves the rule. So yes, they take exponentially-proportionally longer to find on average.muzik wrote:I'm assuming that searches for diagonal ships are even harder? How long would searches for c/8, 9, 10 and 11 diagonal take?
I think it's the same kind of problem, unfortunately. For c/12, Charles Corderman picked the low-hanging fruit back in 1971, by running nonominoes and watching what happened. zdr's discovery of the copperhead was a more recent kind of low-hanging fruit -- hanging not nearly so low, but still within easy reach of today's computing capacity.muzik wrote:I guess what we should be looking for now is not spaceships, but reactions.
We have the switch engine, which moves at c/12 and can be tamed to move at c/12. So what about a reaction that moves at c/9 diagonal or so?