Thread for your unsure discoveries

[Sokwe]

Notice that the second .jdf file searches for a pattern that is not only a parent of the 622-cell pattern, but also a grandparent of the grandparentless pattern. If you reduce the search to period 2, then it will find a parent to the 622-cell pattern. So the 622-cell pattern isn't an orphan itself, but adding a few cells somewhere will make it an orphan, and those cell additions are necessary to allow it to evolve into the grandparentless pattern.

Seems as if the alternative would be to run a predecessor check on each of the 17920 parent patterns independently...?

This is essentially what's being done by JLS, but they're all part of the same search. I just ran the 1-generation predecessor search, because I hoped that knowing those cells would reduce the time needed for the 2-generation search.

I'll run some more searches to double-check the result, but I'm fairly convinced that this pattern has no grandparents.

[Scorbie]

I'll run some more searches to double-check the result, but I'm fairly convinced that this pattern has no grandparents.

This might be a program that's easy to work and check:
http://www.quinapalus.com/unlife.html
Also simeks seems to have something related for predecessor searching:
http://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 039#p25061

[simsim314]

Congrats on the solution to this old problem!

Obviously the next challenge would be to generalize the grandparent problem to any amount of generations:

Given N - number of generation, find a pattern (or prove non-existence) that has predecessors in all N-1 generations but none in generation N.

[simeks]

Also simeks seems to have something related for predecessor searching:

I was pretty quick to try my program on the pattern mtve posted. But as I expected it is much too big for my program to handle. It generates all predecessors in parallel.
This works by making lists of all possible predecessor in each 3-by-3 box, and then joining pairs of sub-areas and correlating the associated lists, until only one area remains. Somewhere in that process the computer will often run out of memory for a big pattern, and that's what happened here.

[gmc_nxtman]

Not sure if this is useful or not, but maybe this could be used as part of a sawtooth: Fx77b reeling in a block.

Code: Select all

x = 105, y = 134, rule = LifeHistory
64.2A$63.B2A2B$64.4B$62.6B$60.B2A5B$57.2B.B2A3B5.2A$56.11B4.A$56.8B2A
2B4.A$53.11B2AB4.2A$52.16B$52.16B$52.16B$52.B3C4B.6B$52.2BC4B3.6B$45.
A6.2B3C2B3.5B$43.3A6.6B3.6B$42.A8.7B3.6B$41.A.A6.8B3.6B$40.BA.A5.8B3.
2B3D2B$39.3BA5.9B3.4BD2B$37.4B6.4B.6B.4B3DB$35.6B5.4B.16B$34.7B4.4B2.
16B$27.B.4B.8B2.4B3.16B$26.2AB.17B5.B2A11B$26.2A18B5.2B2A8B$27.2B.16B
6.11B$30.16B7.3B2AB.2B$31.15B5.5B2AB$32.12B.B2A3.6B$32.11B2.BA.A2.4B$
33.10B5.A2.2B2AB$33.6B2A2B5.2A3.2A$33.6B2A3B$33.10B$29.A.2AB.8B$27.3A
B2AB3.7B$26.A4.B6.6B$27.3A.2A4.6B$29.2A2.A4.5B$32.A.A.8B$28.A.2A.A.A
8B8.A$28.2A.A.BA2B.6B6.3A$31.A2.2B2.2B3D2B4.A$31.2A.B3.2BD4B4.2A20.A$
29.2A2.A.A2.B3D4B.4B4.A15.3A12.B.3B.B$28.A2.A2.2A2.11B4.3A18.A10.13B$
29.2A7.12B2.A20.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD3.2A$38.12B2.2A19.8B3.2B2A9B3DB2.2A$
39.11B3.B21.8B.13BDBD$42.7B4.3B19.22BD$41.8B3.6B16.15B.2B2.2B$40.9B2.
10B11.17B$39.23B3.2B2.19B$37.B.12BD3B2A15BD15B$36.2A13B2D2B2A15BDBD4B
.7B$36.2A14B2D18B3D13B$37.15BD21BD14B$35.5B2.9BD36B$35.2A6.5B5.13B.4B
6.11B$36.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B6.4B2.5B$33.3A12.2A25.4B3.6B$33.A14.A25.4B
3.7B.2B$49.3A21.4B4.B2A6B2A$51.A20.4B4.BA2BA3B.B2A$71.4B5.BA2BAB4.B$
70.4B8.2AB$69.4B10.2B65$2A$2A!

The input herschel will cleanly delete the block in two out of three cases, but since it is a pull3 reaction the third case doesn't work with the herschel:

Code: Select all

x = 107, y = 136, rule = LifeHistory
66.2A$65.B2A2B$66.4B$64.6B$62.B2A5B$59.2B.B2A3B5.2A$58.11B4.A$58.8B2A
2B4.A$55.11B2AB4.2A$54.16B$54.16B$54.16B$54.B3C4B.6B$54.2BC4B3.6B$47.
A6.2B3C2B3.5B$45.3A6.6B3.6B$44.A8.7B3.6B$43.A.A6.8B3.6B$42.BA.A5.8B3.
2B3D2B$41.3BA5.9B3.4BD2B$39.4B6.4B.6B.4B3DB$37.6B5.4B.16B$36.7B4.4B2.
16B$29.B.4B.8B2.4B3.16B$28.2AB.17B5.B2A11B$28.2A18B5.2B2A8B$29.2B.16B
6.11B$32.16B7.3B2AB.2B$33.15B5.5B2AB$34.12B.B2A3.6B$34.11B2.BA.A2.4B$
35.10B5.A2.2B2AB$35.6B2A2B5.2A3.2A$35.6B2A3B$35.10B$31.A.2AB.8B$29.3A
B2AB3.7B$28.A4.B6.6B$29.3A.2A4.6B$31.2A2.A4.5B$34.A.A.8B$30.A.2A.A.A
8B8.A$30.2A.A.BA8B7.3A$33.A2.2B2.2B3D2B4.A$33.2A.B3.2BD4B4.2A20.A$31.
2A2.A.A2.B3D4B.4B4.A15.3A12.B.3B.B$30.A2.A2.2A2.11B4.3A18.A10.13B$31.
2A7.12B2.A20.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD3.2A$40.12B2.2A19.8B3.2B2A9B3DB2.2A$41.
11B3.B21.8B.13BDBD$44.7B4.3B19.22BD$43.8B3.6B16.15B.2B2.2B$42.9B2.10B
11.17B$41.23B3.2B2.19B$39.B.12BD3B2A15BD15B$38.2A13B2D2B2A15BDBD4B.7B
$38.2A14B2D18B3D13B$39.15BD21BD14B$37.5B2.9BD36B$37.2A6.5B5.13B.4B6.
11B$38.A7.2B.3B3.7B.B4.4B6.4B2.5B$35.3A12.2A25.4B3.6B$35.A14.A25.4B3.
7B.2B$51.3A21.4B4.B2A6B2A$53.A20.4B4.BA2BA3B.B2A$73.4B5.BA2BAB4.B$72.
4B8.2AB$71.4B10.2B67$2A$2A!

The Fx77's output herschel could also be used for further purpose.

EDIT: The really tiny H->G3 can reel in a blinker, if with even parity, and will work in both parities of the pull2 reaction:

Code: Select all

x = 85, y = 70, rule = LifeHistory
24.2A11.A$23.B2AB9.A.A$24.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A$23.B.B9.2A.2A2.A2.A.A12.A$
23.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A10.3A$23.6B6.2ABA2.4A.A10.A$23.8B4.2A.A.A3.A12.2A$
24.13B2.A.AB2.A9.4B$22.13B5.A.A2B.A7.3B$21.15B5.A2B.2A7.4B17.2A$21.
15B4.3B10.5B17.A$20.17B.B.2B11.6B13.BA.A$20.23B2A2B2A2.8B10.B.BA.A$
19.13B2A8B3AD14B8.2A3BA$18.14B2A9B3D3BA9B9.2AB.4B$17.2AB3.17BABADBD4B
.7B11.B3.4B2.2A$16.A2.A4.17B2ACABA2BA9B12.6B2.A.A$15.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B
2.2B3AB3A10B11.9B2.A$15.A7.6B14.17B8.12B.A.2A$14.2A6.2A7B14.15B.2B2.
12B.2A.A.2A$21.2B2A4.2A15.22BD8BAB.A$20.2BAB5.A16.8B.13BDBD7B2A$19.4B
7.3A11.8B3.2B2A9B3D7B$18.4B10.A11.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD4B3.4A$17.4B24.A10.
18B5.A2.A$16.4B.3B.B2.4B10.3A12.B.3B.7B7.A3.2A$9.18B.4B10.A19.7B8.2A$
8.4BD11B2A5B2A28.7B$8.4B3D9B2A5B2A27.7B$8.4BDBD15B.B27.7B$6.8BD12B2AB
28.7B$5.13B2.7B2A28.7B$5.10B6.8B27.7B$6.7B7.7B28.7B$4.8B6.10B26.7B$4.
2A7B2.13B25.7B$3.B2A12BC8B25.7B$.B.15BCBC4B26.7B$2A5B2A9B3C4B25.7B$2A
5B2A11BC4B24.7B$.4B.18B24.7B$.4B2.B.3B.4B30.7B$12.4B30.7B$11.4B30.7B$
10.BA3B29.7B$5.2A.ABABAB29.7B$5.A.2A.2AB29.7B$41.7B$40.7B$39.7B$38.7B
$37.7B$36.7B$35.7B$34.7B$33.7B$32.7B$31.7B$30.7B$29.7B$28.7B$27.7B$
26.7B$25.7B$24.7B$23.7B$23.6B$24.4B$24.3A$25.B!

[regfre]

Hello All!
I not sure usefull it or not, but i find 38-cells still-life pattern,that not found in the wiki-site.

[calcyman]

Hello All!
I not sure usefull it or not, but i find 38-cells still-life pattern,that not found in the wiki-site.

It's been found 248 times before:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/C1/xs38

[simsim314]

I not sure usefull it or not, but i find 38-cells still-life pattern,that not found in the wiki-site.

The wiki is very limited source. There is no point to "find" some X bit still life - there are billions of those.

Your SL was actually named by scrobie - elk, not sure where did this name came from.

Check out this message:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1878&hilit=statistics

[Scorbie]

Your SL was actually named by scrobie - elk

Named by gmc_nxtman, and it (, dimerized,) is similar but slightly different from the still life above.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1878&hilit=statisti ... =50#p25178
It was named as I was getting name recommendations to various catalysts, and this 'Elk' appears in the useful edgeshooting H2G (or B2G).

Still, this does not change your point.

[Sokwe]

This appears to be a 622-cell orphan

Surprisingly, this is not an orphan. Here are two different predecessors... This means that not all of the pattern's parents contain the same orphan.

All predecessors of mtve's pattern contain one of the two following orphans:

Code: Select all

x = 78, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
.26D24.26D$.DBABA2B2ABAB2A3BA3BAB2A2D23.DBABA2B2ABAB2A3BA3BAB2A2D$.DA
2B2A2B2A3B2A3B2A5BAD23.DA2B2A2B2A3B2A3B2A5BAD$.DA3BA4BA4BABA2B2A2BABD
23.DA3BA4BA4BABA2B2A2BABD$.DAB2ABAB2AB2ABABA3BA2BA2BD23.DAB2ABAB2AB2A
BABA3BA2BA2BD$2D4BABABABA2BA2BA2B2A2BABD22.2D4BABABABA2BA2BA2B2A2BABD
$DA2BA2BA6B2A2B2ABA2B3AD22.DA2BA2BA6B2A2B2ABA2B3AD$2DBABAB5AB2A2BA3B
2A2BA2D22.2DBABAB5AB2A2BA3B2A2BA2D$2DABABA3BABA5BA2B2AB2AD23.2DABABA
3BABA5BA2B2AB2AD$DBA2BA3BA2BAB2A2BABA3B2AD23.DBA2BA3BA2BAB2A2BABA3B2A
D$2D2BABA2BA5BA2B5AB2A2D22.2D2BABA2BA5BA2B5AB2A2D$2DBA4BAB2ABABA2BABA
4BABD22.2DBA4BAB2ABABA2BABA4BABD$DBABA2BA3BA2BAB2AB2A2B3ABD22.DBABA2B
A3BA2BAB2AB2A2B3ABD$2DA2BABA4BA2BA4BA4BABD22.2DA2BABA4BA2BA4BA4BABD$.
D2BA4B2A2BA3BA3B2AB3AD23.D2BA4B2A2BA3BA3B2AB3AD$2D2A2BABA3B2A2B2AB6A
2BD22.2D2A2BABA3B2A2B2AB5ABABD$D2BAB2AB2A4BAB2A3BA2BA2BD22.D2BAB2AB2A
4BAB2A3BA2BA2BD$DA4BA3B2ABA6B2A2BA2BD22.DA4BA3B2ABA6B2A2BA2BD$DA2BABA
BAB2A3BAB2AB2A2BABAD22.DA2BABABAB2A3BAB2AB2A2BABAD$DBA2BA6BABAB2A2B2A
4BAD22.DBA2BA6BABAB2A2B2A4BAD$D2BABA7B3A5BABA2BAD22.D2BABA7B3A5BABA2B
AD$DBA4B5A2BA3B2A2BABA2BD22.DBA4B5A2BA3B2A2BABA2BD$D2ABABAB2A2B2A3B4A
BA3BAD22.D2ABABAB2A2B2A3B4ABA3BAD$2D3BA7B4ABAB2A3BA2D22.2D3BA7B4ABAB
2A3BA2D$2DA2BA3B3A3B2A7B2AD23.2DA2BA3B3A3B2A7B2AD$DB2A4B2ABA2BA3B2ADA
2DA2D23.DB2A4B2ABA2BA3B2ADA2DA2D$26D24.26D!

These orphans were constructed by filling in those two red cells that were disconnected from the boundary in the 622-cell pattern. Only two of the four possible choices result in an orphan: specifically, one cell has to be ON and the other OFF. If both are set ON or both are set OFF, then the pattern is not an orphan, but also cannot be part of a grandparent of mtve's pattern.

I also cut off some cells on the left side of mtve's pattern and found that this pattern (not including red border cells) also has no grandparents :

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
.24D$.D7AB5AB4AB3A2D$.DBA2B2A2B3A2B4AB2A2BAD$.DABAB4AB4AB2ABA2B3AD$.D
2ABABABABA2BAB3AB3A2BD$.DB2A6BA2B5A3B2ABD$.DABAB9ABABA6BD$.DBAB2A4BA
2BAB4ABA3BD$.DBABA2B3AB3AB2A7BD$.D3A2B2AB3AB4A4BA2BD$.D3AB6A2BA6BA3BD
$.DBAB3AB2AB2AB3AB2A3BAD$.DB3ABAB6AB4ABA3BD$.DB6ABAB2A2B3A6BD$.DA2BAB
ABAB4A10BD$2D4AB4A2B6A4B2AD$DABABABA2B2AB2A2B2A2B3ABD$DA3B2AB2A2B3AB
2A3BA3BD$D2AB2A4B2A4B3A6BD$D3ABAB5A3B4ABABABAD$DAB4A2B2A3BABA4BA2BAD$
D2AB2A4B2A3BA5B2AB2D$DB4ABA2BABA4BAB2A2BAD$D3A3B2AB3A2BABA6BD$25D!

It may be possible to remove more border cells while retaining the grandparentless property.

[grisha5]

Is this cordership-based puffer known?

Code: Select all

#CXRLE Pos=8,38
x = 72, y = 72, rule = 23/3
37bo$36b3o15bo$35b2ob2o14bo$34b2o3bo7b4o3bo$35bobobobo5bo3bo$36b2obo2b
o4b2o3bo$39b2obo7b3o$40b2o10b2obo6b2o$29bo23b3o6b2o$28b3o23bo$27b2o2bo
$26b2o2b2o$27b2o$28b5o$32b2o$30bo2bo36b2o$31b2o37b2o5$41bo$40bobo2$40b
o2bo$42b2o$11bo31bo$10b3o$9b2ob2o$8b2o3bo$9bobobobo$10b2obo2bo23b2o$
13b2obo25bo$14b2o25b2o$3bo36b3o$2b3o35b2o$b2o2bo33b3obo$2o2b2o34bo3bo$
b2o39bo2bo$2b5o29bo5b3o$6b2o14bobo6bo2b4o5b2o$4bo2bo13bo9bob4o$5b2o15b
o2bo6b3o3b2o$24b3o9bo2b2o$37bob2o$38bo2$3b3o$3bobo$3bo$3bo2bo$4bobo$5b
3o$7b2o$b3o4b2o$7b2o7$7b2o$7b2o7$15b2o$15b2o!

[mtve]

I also cut off some cells on the left side of mtve's pattern and found that this pattern (not including red border cells) also has on grandparents :

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
.24D$.D7AB5AB4AB3A2D$.DBA2B2A2B3A2B4AB2A2BAD$.DABAB4AB4AB2ABA2B3AD$.D
2ABABABABA2BAB3AB3A2BD$.DB2A6BA2B5A3B2ABD$.DABAB9ABABA6BD$.DBAB2A4BA
2BAB4ABA3BD$.DBABA2B3AB3AB2A7BD$.D3A2B2AB3AB4A4BA2BD$.D3AB6A2BA6BA3BD
$.DBAB3AB2AB2AB3AB2A3BAD$.DB3ABAB6AB4ABA3BD$.DB6ABAB2A2B3A6BD$.DA2BAB
ABAB4A10BD$2D4AB4A2B6A4B2AD$DABABABA2B2AB2A2B2A2B3ABD$DA3B2AB2A2B3AB
2A3BA3BD$D2AB2A4B2A4B3A6BD$D3ABAB5A3B4ABABABAD$DAB4A2B2A3BABA4BA2BAD$
D2AB2A4B2A3BA5B2AB2D$DB4ABA2BABA4BAB2A2BAD$D3A3B2AB3A2BABA6BD$25D!

It may be possible to remove more border cells while retaining the grandparentless property.

It appears it became just a GoE, didn't it?

It is possible to remove more cells indeed, and I'm quite sure smallest pattern could be found with genetic optimizations, like most probably Steven Eker did in his recent records of small GoEs.

Just for the history, here is another no-grandparent:

Code: Select all

.XX....X.X....XX...?????
...X.....XXX...X...?X.??
XXXXX....XX..XX.X....XXX
XX.XX....XXXX..XX....XXX
XXXX.X...XXX.X.XX.XXX..?
X.X....XX.XX..X.X...XX??
X...XXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX?X..
.XXXX.XXXXX.X..XXXXX???.
.X...XXXXX..XXX.XX..X???
XX....X.XXXXXXXXXXXXX.??
.X...XX.X..XXXXX..XXX.?X
.XXX.XXXX.XXXX.XX.?XXXXX
...XXX.XXXXXXXXX.XX...??
...X.X..XX.XXXX.XXXXXXX?
XX.XX.X.XXX.X.XXX..X?...
XX.X.X.X.X.X.XX..XX.XX.X
XX....XX....X..XXX......
XXX.XXXX.X..X.X.XXXXX?..
X...XXX.X.XX.X...XXXX.X.
.XX..XXX.XXXXXXX.X.XX.XX
XX.X.X.XXX.XX.X..XXX.X..
XX...XX.X.X.X....XXX...X
X.XXX.XXX.XXX...XXX....X
X.X.XX.X.X....X..XXX..XX
.XXX.X.XXXX.XXXXX...XXX?

[Sokwe]

It appears it became just a GoE, didn't it?

No, it still has parents. Here is one:

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
4bo18b2ob2o$4bo2b2o2b2o2b2ob2ob9o$3b20o4bo$2bobobo2b2obob2o3bo3bob5o$
4o2b2o2b2o3b2o3b2o5bo$2b2o3bo4bo4bobo2b2o2bo$2b2ob2obob2ob2obobo3bo2bo
$b2o4bobobobo2bo2bo2b2o2bo$b2o2bo2bo6b2o2b2obo2b4o$2bobobob5ob2o2bo3b
2o2bo$2b2obobo3bobo5bo2b2ob2o$b3o2bo3bo2bob2o2bobo3b2obo$b2o2bobo2bo5b
o2b5ob2o$2bobo4bob2obobo2bobo4bo$2b2obo2bo3bo2bob2ob2o2b3obo$b3o2bobo
4bo2bo4bo4bobo$b2o2bo4b2o2bo3bo3b2ob5o$5o2bobo3b2o2b2ob5obob2o$2o2bob
2ob2o4bob2o3bo2bo2bo$b2o4bo3b2obo6b2o2bo2b2o$b2o2bobobob2o3bob2ob2o2bo
b3o$2obo2bo6bobob2o2b2o4b2o$2o2bobo7b3o5bobo2b2o$bobo4b5o2bo3b2o2bobo
2b2o$b3obobob2o2b2o3b4obo3b3o$2o4bo7b4obob2o3b3o$4o2bo3b3o3b2o7b2ob2o$
bob2o4b2obo2bo3b2ob8o$bo2b20o4bo$3bob2ob2o2b2o2b2o2b2o4bo2bo!

Do you want to name your original grandparentless pattern? I've been referring to it as "mtve's pattern" or "grandparentless pattern" which are awkward. Sticking with the biblical theme set by "Garden of Eden", a fitting name might be "Cain".

[muzik]

Do you want to name your original grandparentless pattern? I've been refering to it as "mtve's pattern" or "grandparentless pattern" which are awkward. Sticking with the biblical theme set by "Garden of Eden", a fitting name might be "Cain".

I was thinking "Mountain of Eden".

Mountain ov(f) Eden

[mtve]

No, it still has parents.

You're right, my mistake.

Do you want to name your original grandparentless pattern? I've been referring to it as "mtve's pattern" or "grandparentless pattern" which are awkward. Sticking with the biblical theme set by "Garden of Eden", a fitting name might be "Cain".

Second order/generation GoE, GoE^2, GoE-2g, "Fruits of Eden" maybe.

[mtve]

I was thinking "Mountain of Eden".

Very nice, thank you!

[mtve]

GoE2g#1 bounding box size was 23x24, GoE2g#2 was 24x25 and GoE2g#3 is 22x22:

Code: Select all

?XXX...........X.X.XXX
?X..XX.XXX.....X...X.X
?X.X.XXXX..X.X...XXX.X
?.X.XXXX.XXX...X.XX.X.
?.XX.XX....X.XXXXXXXXX
?.XXX..XXXX.XXXXXXXX.X
?X.XXX.XXXX..X.XXX.XX.
?XX..XXX.X.X.X.X.XX.XX
?X.XXX....X..X..X.X..X
?.X..X.X.XXX.X...X...X
XX.XXXX.X.XXXXXXX.XX..
.X.X.X...XXX.X.X.XXX.X
XXXXXXX.X.X....X..XXX.
.XXXXX.X..XXXXXXXX....
..X.XX.XXXXX..X.X.XX..
X..XX.X..XXXXX..XXX.X.
...X.XXX.XXX...XXX.X..
..XXXXXXX..XXXXXX.X...
..XX.XX...X.XXXX.XXX.X
X....X.XXXXXX.XXX.X.X.
X.X.XXX...X.X..XXX.X.X
.XX...X.XX..X.XX.X...X

By a number of cells and on-cells the leader is still GoE2g#1, that was reduced to rusty beast with strange "tails" from one side:

Code: Select all

XXXXXXXX.?XXXX.XXXX.
X.X..XX..XXX..XXXX.
XX.X.XXXX.XXXX.XX.X?.
XXX.X.X.X.X..X.XXX.??X
X.XX......X..?XXXX...
.X.X.XXXXXXXXX.X.X????..
X.X.XX....X..X.XXXX.X
X.X.X..XXX.XXX.XX????...
XXXX..XX.XXX.XXXX
XXXX.XXXXXX..X?.....
X.X.XXX.XX.XX.XXX.?X
X.XXX.X.XXXXXX.???X
..XXXXXX.X.XX..XXX
XX..X.X.X.XXXX?????.....
.XXXX.XXXX..XXXXXX
X.X.X.X..XX.XX..XX..?XX
X...XX.XX..XXX.XX...X
XX.XX....XX....XXX??....
XXX.X.XXXXX...XXXX.X.X
X.XXXX..XX...X.X....X?.
XX.XX....XX...X.....
.XXXX.X..X.X....X.XX
XXX...XX.XXX..??X

[gmc_nxtman]

Seemingly improved p500 gun(?)

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
16.A20.A$15.A.A7.A11.3A$15.BA2B4.3A14.A$5.2A9.2B4.A16.2A16.A.2A$4.BA.
AB2.6B5.2A15.4B14.2A.A$4.2B2A10B3.3B3.7B.B5.3B22.2A$2.2AB.11B2.3B5.
13B.4B12.3A5.A.A$.A.AB4.43B4.BA2.A4.A$.A6.45B4.2B2A3.2A$2A4.B.45B2.3B
.B4.B6.2A$5.2A22B2A22B.7B2.2B6.A$5.2A.21B2A29B2.5B.BA.A$6.30B3.2B2.
24B.B2A$8.6B.2B.B3.B2.10B11.23B$8.7B11.6B16.21B$8.6B13.3B19.20B$7.9B.
B9.B20.22B$6.12B2A6.2A20.22B$6.12B2A6.A19.2AB.3B4.12B$6.14B7.A17.A.AB
8.12B$4.2AB.12B6.2A17.A11.13B$3.A.AB2.9B.B2A22.2A12.12B8.A$3.A6.8B.BA
.A33.5B3.6B6.3A$2.2A5.8B5.A33.2A6.7B4.A$9.7B6.2A33.A6.7B4.2A$8.11B35.
3A7.8B.4B$8.12B34.A9.11B$8.12B44.12B$9.11B9.A34.12B$7.4B.8B7.3A35.11B
$7.2A4.7B6.A33.2A6.7B$8.A4.7B6.2A33.A5.8B5.2A$5.3A6.6B3.5B33.A.AB.8B
6.A$5.A8.7BA4B12.2A22.2AB.9B2.BA.A$14.7BA5B11.A17.2A6.12B.B2A$15.12B
8.BA.A17.A7.14B$15.6BA5B4.3B.B2A19.A6.2A12B$14.6B2A14B20.2A6.2A12B$
14.4B2A6BA9B20.B9.B.9B$15.2BA7BABA7B19.3B13.6B$15.BA7BA2BA8B16.6B11.
7B$15.2BA2BA4B2A11B11.10B2.B3.B.2B.6B$13.2AB.B2ABA19B2.2B3.30B$12.A.A
B.3B2A2.29B2A21B.2A$12.A6.2B2.7B.22B2A22B2A$11.2A6.B4.B.3B2.45B.B4.2A
$18.2A3.2A2B4.45B6.A$18.A4.A2.AB4.43B4.BA.A$16.A.A5.3A12.4B.13B5.3B2.
11B.B2A$16.2A22.4B4.B.7B3.3B3.10B2A2B$23.A.2A14.4B15.2A5.6B2.BA.AB$
23.2A.A15.4B15.A4.2B9.2A$43.3BA11.3A4.2BAB$44.3BA10.A7.A.A$45.3AB18.A
!

However, I wouldn't be surprised if there is something smaller, seeing as 500 is a very round number.

This does make an improvement on the current p250 gun, however.

Also seemingly this improved p668:

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 68, rule = LifeHistory
9.A63.A$9.3A61.3A$12.A46.A16.A$11.2A11.A34.3A13.2A$11.B10.3A37.A12.4B
$9.3B9.A27.2A10.2A8.2A4.B2A$8.BA6B5.2A8.2A17.A10.5B4.B2AB2.BA.A$7.BAB
A7B.4B9.A17.A.AB9.4B3.B.B3.B2A$5.B2.ABA10B10.A19.2AB.3B4.13B.3B$4.2A
3BA12B9.2A20.7B.17B$4.2A16B10.B20.25B$5.2B.14B10.3B19.25B$8.13B10.6B
16.26B$11.11B.B3.B2.10B11.28B$12.29B3.2B2.19B.B.9B$9.25B2A15BA15B2.
10B.BA$8.26B2A15BABA4B.7B3.11BA.A$8.43B3A4B2.7B3.6B.B.2BA$8.45BA4B4.
2B2A3.7B4.B$8.49B3.4B2A4.7B$8.14B2.3B5.13B.4B10.2A8.7B$8.15B3.3B3.7B.
B5.3B12.A8.8B$8.6B2.6B5.2A15.4B10.3A8.7B.B2A$7.7B7.2B4.A16.2A12.A11.
6B.BA.A$6.8B6.BA2B4.3A14.A24.6B4.A$5.8B7.A.A7.A11.3A24.7B4.2A$4.9B8.A
20.A19.A.2A2.8B$4.3B.6B48.2A.A12B$2.2AB2.7B53.11B$.A.AB2.6B54.4B2A5B$
.A5.6B55.3B2A5B$2A5.6B55.10B$6.8B55.9B$7.8B54.9B$6.9B54.8B$6.9B55.8B$
6.10B55.6B5.2A$6.5B2A3B55.6B5.A$6.5B2A4B54.6B2.BA.A$6.11B53.7B2.B2A$
6.12BA.2A48.6B.3B$8.8B2.2A.A19.A20.A8.9B$2.2A4.7B24.3A11.A7.A.A7.8B$
3.A4.6B24.A14.3A4.2BAB6.8B$3.A.AB.6B11.A12.2A16.A4.2B7.7B$4.2AB.7B8.
3A10.4B15.2A5.6B2.6B$6.8B8.A12.3B5.B.7B3.3B3.15B$7.7B8.2A10.4B.13B5.
3B2.14B$7.7B4.2A4B3.49B$3.B4.7B3.2A2B4.50B$2.A2B.B.6B3.7B2.50B$.A.A
11B3.7B.22B2A26B$2.AB.10B2.31B2A25B$5.9B.B.19B2.2B3.29B$5.28B11.10B2.
B3.B.11B$5.26B16.6B10.13B$5.25B19.3B10.14B.2B$6.25B20.B10.16B2A$6.17B
.7B20.2A9.12BA3B2A$5.3B.13B4.3B.B2A19.A10.10BABA2.B$5.2AB3.B.B3.4B9.B
A.A17.A9.4B.7BABAB$4.A.AB2.B2AB4.5B10.A17.2A8.2A5.6BAB$4.2AB4.2A8.2A
10.2A27.A9.3B$5.4B12.A37.3A10.B$7.2A13.3A34.A11.2A$7.A16.A46.A$8.3A
61.3A$10.A63.A!

This gun may also be stuffed with signals up to period 96.

EDIT: Another apparent improvement, this time at p476:

Code: Select all

x = 63, y = 82, rule = LifeHistory
36.2A$37.A$35.A$35.5A$39.A7.A8.A$33.4AB7.3A6.3A$33.A2.AB6.A8.A$34.6B
4.2A7.2A$27.2A6.11B2.7B$28.A7.8B3.6B$28.A.AB2.10B3.8B$23.2A4.2AB.13B
2.7B$24.A5.16B2.9B$24.A.AB3.15B3.8B$10.2A7.2A4.2AB.27B$9.B2AB7.A6.29B
$10.2B8.A.AB3.28B6.2A$5.B3.2B10.2AB4.26B.B5.A$4.2AB.4B11.3B.30B.BA.A$
4.2A8B9.34B.B2A$5.B.B2A6B2.2B2.37B$8.2A49B$8.24B.26B$4.28B2.24B$4.28B
2.25B$3.2A49B.4B$3.2A14B.4B6.24B.3B$4.B.11B2.4B8.22B$6.10B2.4B8.B.21B
$7.7BA6B8.A2B.20B$6.7B2A5B8.A.A22B.2A$7.5BA7B9.AB.22B.A$7.6B2A5B12.
20B2.A$9.2B.BABA4B13.7B.8B4.A$12.2BA5B13.6B2.9B4.3A$11.3BABA3B11.2AB
7.7B.B2A4.A$10.8BAB10.A.AB8.6B.BA.A$10.3B.2BABA2B9.A5.2A4.6B4.A2.A$8.
4B2.8B7.2A6.A4.6B4.4A$8.2A5.8B14.A.AB.7B$5.A3.A5.8B15.2AB2.6B5.4A$5.
4A5.6B2.B2A15.8B5.A3.A$14.7B.BA.A14.8B5.2A$7.4A4.6B4.A6.2A7.8B2.4B$7.
A2.A4.6B4.2A5.A9.7B.3B$10.A.AB.2B2A2B8.BA.A10.10B$6.A4.2AB.2B2A3B7.B
2A11.9B$6.3A4.9B2.6B13.8B$9.A4.3BA4B.7B13.8B.2B$8.A2.5B3A12B12.13B$7.
A.5B2AB2A12B.BA9.13B$7.2A.4BA2BABA12BA.A8.14B$10.4BA4BA10B.2BA8.14B$
10.5BA15B.B8.4B2.10B$10.6BA15B8.4B2.11B.B$5.3B.11BA12B6.4B.14B2A$4.4B
.49B2A$4.16BA8B2.28B$5.13BABA8B2.28B$4.26B.24B$4.49B2A$4.37B2.2B2.6B
2AB.B$2.2AB.34B9.8B2A$.A.AB.30B.4B10.4B.B2A$.A5.B.26B3.4B10.2B3.B$2A
6.28B3.4B8.2B$7.29B4.4B6.B2AB$7.BA25B.B2A3.4B6.2A$6.3A5B3.15B3.BA.A3.
4B$6.BA4BABA2.16B5.A4.4B$8.A5BA2.13B.B2A4.2A4.4B$8.5B3A3.10B2.BA.A10.
4B$10.6B3.8B7.A11.4B$8.7B2.11B6.2A11.4B$8.2A7.2A4.6B19.4B$9.A8.A6.BA
2.A19.4B$6.3A6.3A7.B4A20.4B$6.A8.A7.A27.4B$23.5A24.4B$27.A25.3BA$25.A
28.3BA$25.2A28.3AB!

Minimum repeat time of the conduits is 168.

[grisha5]

Not going to be rude, but can anybody answer my corderpuffer question?

[drc]

Not going to be rude, but can anybody answer my corderpuffer question?

Probably known.

[chris_c]

Seemingly improved p500 ... p668 ... p476

I don't think these are smaller than those in the collection here. There you can find:

Code: Select all

476 (4130, 'p00436_5')
500 (4526, 'p00436_8')
668 (5487, 'p00652b_2')

I tried to explain what this means here.

Recently I found another couple of small guns based on your Herschel conduit work. A p93 based on a p558 loop and a p568:

Code: Select all

x = 236, y = 60, rule = LifeHistory
226.2A$227.A$227.A.2A.A$58.A.2A.3B118.A40.3A.A.2A$58.2A.A5B117.3A15.A
20.BAB$63.5B119.A14.3A17.2BAB3A$64.4B118.2A17.A15.4B2A2.A$45.A19.B3A
19.A97.4B14.2A14.7B.2A4.2A$26.2A17.3A12.B.3B.A3B16.3A92.2A5.3B13.4B
12.5B5.2A2.A$27.A20.A10.8BA9B8.A9.A84.B2AB3.12B.B5.3B10.7B4.A.A.A$9.
2A15.A20.2A3.B5.2B2A16B7.BA6.3A75.2A8.2B4.18B.4B9.8B4.B.A$8.3BA14.2A
19.8B3.2B2A16B2.B.A3BA5.A77.A.A9.35B2.9B2.2B$8.3BA15.B21.2B2A4B.20B.
2BA3B7.2A76.A.A.2A5.47B.2BAB$4.B2.6B14.3B19.BAB2A27B2ABAB4.4B2.2A73.A
.A.A4.50BA.A$3.2AB.4BAB13.6B16.B2ABABA8B.2B2.17BA6B4.A76.A6.14B2A34B.
A$3.2A3BA2BA3B.B8.10B11.3BA2BAB2A7B8.14B3A4B.BA.A74.BA2BA4.14B2A32B4.
3A$4.2B.BABA7B3.2B2.11B3.2B2.10B2A7B11.6BA5B2A5B.B2A75.BA3B4.21B3.2B
2.20B6.A$7.13B2A7B2A15BA3B4A8B12.4BA4B3A8B76.2BA3BAB.21B11.18B$8.12BA
BA6B2A14BA15B13.5BA4BA9B76.2BA3BA20B16.16B$8.14B2A21B3A14B10.8B2.13B
76.BA3B2.13B.3B18.16B$8.11B2ABA40B9.2A3.B5.12B.BA73.BA2BA3.10B.B.B20.
16B$7.11BA2BA30B.10B3.2A5.A7.15BA.A74.A6.7B3.2A.A19.16B$2A3.B.11BAB2.
B4.13B.4B9.7B.B2A2.A2.3A8.2A3.8B.2BA73.A.A.A3.6B6.A.3A10.A.2A2.8B.7B$
.A2.2AB.5B3ABABA7.7B.B5.3B12.4B2.B2ABA3.A11.A2.10B.B73.A.A.2A4.6B3.A
6.A9.2A.A17B3.B$A3.2A7B2A3BAB19.4B15.3B3.B.A.A.A8.3A4.10B74.A.A6.7B3.
2A4.2A14.17B.B2A$2A3.2B.4BA2B3AB20.2A16.4B2.2A.A.2A9.A6.12B73.2A6.6B
26.4B2A5B2.B.2A2B2A$.B6.5B4A2B21.A15.B2A2B2.A2.A19.13B80.6B27.3B2A5B
3.A.AB.B$3B5.6B2A2B19.3A17.2A6.2A18.7B3.5B79.6B27.10B4.AB$4B4.6B23.A
24.A23.6B4.4B78.8B27.9B$5B3.7B18.2A6.2A17.3A19.2B2A6B5.3B79.8B26.9B$.
13B19.A2.A2.2B2AB15.A21.2B4A5B6.B79.9B26.8B$2.12B6.A9.2A.A.2A2.4B16.
2A20.B3A2BA4B.2B3.2A78.9B27.8B$4.10B4.3A8.A.A.A.B3.3B15.4B19.BA3B2A7B
2A3.A72.BA4.10B27.6B$3.B.10B2.A11.A3.AB2AB2.4B12.3B5.B.7B7.ABAB3A5B.B
2A2.A70.B.BA.A3.5B2A3B27.6B$2.A2B.8B3.2A8.3A2.A2.2AB.7B9.4B.13B4.B2.B
A11B.B3.2A68.2A2B2A.B2.5B2A4B26.6B6.2A$.A.A15B7.A5.2A3.10B.30BA2BA11B
75.2AB.17B14.2A4.2A3.7B6.A.A$2.AB.12B5.B3.2A9.40BAB2A11B77.B3.17BA.2A
9.A6.A3.6B4.2A.A.A$5.13B2.8B10.14B3A21B2A14B80.7B.8B2.2A.A10.3A.A6.6B
3.A.A.A$6.9BA4BA5B13.15BA14B2A6BABA12B79.16B19.A.2A3.7B6.A$6.8B3A4BA
4B12.8B4A3BA15B2A7B2A13B78.16B20.B.B.10B3.A2BAB$4.2AB.5B2A5BA6B11.7B
2A10B2.2B3.11B2.2B3.7BABAB.2B75.16B18.3B.13B2.3BAB$3.A.AB.4B3A14B8.7B
2ABA2BA3B11.10B8.B.3BA2BA3B2A74.16B16.20BA3BA2B$3.A4.6BA17B2.2B.8BABA
B2AB16.6B13.BA4B.B2A74.18B11.21B.BA3BA2B$2.2A2.4B4.BAB2A27B2ABAB19.3B
14.6B2.B69.A6.20B2.2A3.2BA18B4.3BAB$6.2A7.3BA2B.20B.4B2A2B21.B15.A3B
73.3A4.20BA7B2A2B3A13B4.A2BAB$7.A5.A3BA.B2.16B2A2B3.8B19.2A14.A3B76.A
.20B2A4B2A3B3ABA14B6.A$4.3A6.AB7.16B2A2B5.B3.2A20.A15.2A76.A.A20BA6B
2A2B2AB2A14B4.A.A.A$4.A9.A8.9BA8B10.A20.A94.BA2B.18BA2B2A2B3AB2ABA2BA
11B5.2A.A.A$11.3A16.3BA.3B.B12.3A17.2A94.2B2.9B2.8BAB2A6B2AB2ABA10B9.
A.A$11.A19.3A20.A111.A.B4.8B9.4B.7B2A3BA5B4.2B8.2A$165.A.A.A4.7B10.3B
5.B.12B3.B2AB$165.A2.2A5.5B12.4B13.4B4.2A$164.2A4.2A.7B14.2A14.4B$
170.A2.2A4B15.A16.4B$171.3ABA2B17.3A14.4B$174.BAB20.A15.4B$167.2A.A.
3A39.4B$167.A.2A.A42.3BA$172.A43.3BA$172.2A43.3A!

[dvgrn]

Not going to be rude, but can anybody answer my corderpuffer question?

Probably known.

Yes, that may not be a really satisfying answer, but it's probably all anybody has. There are so many 4-engine corderpuffers that nobody has them all memorized, or catalogued.

If anybody wants a c/12 puffer that puts out pairs of blocks with exactly 55fd separation, they'll probably write a one-off script to search though the likely engine placements and see what comes up. Dean Hickerson spent a lot of time looking at the search space containing that puffer in the early 1990s, but may not have constructed that exact variant.

However, have a look at the central Cordership in Golly's Patterns/Life/Spaceships/corderships.rle. If you remove the four trailing switch engines you'll get a block-pair-laying Corderpuffer very similar to yours. The central pair of engines is identical, but the block spacing is 57fd instead of 55fd.

You can get other spacings by making small adjustments to the outer engines -- there are three degrees of freedom (X, Y, and relative timing) and those outside blocks are pretty much what cooperating switch engines produce naturally.

Or you can reduce the number of switch engines -- see Dean Hickerson's 7-engine Cordership from 1993, on the southeast edge of corderships.rle, for a block-pair puffer with 42fd spacing. It uses three switch engines in a glide-symmetric orientation, so the blocks are offset by four cells diagonally. (I think the 8-engine one in the center was from 1998, oddly enough, but the basic idea of working with different widths of block-pair puffers showed up in 1991.)

[AbhpzTa]

Another apparent improvement, this time at p476:

Code: Select all

x = 63, y = 82, rule = LifeHistory
36.2A$37.A$35.A$35.5A$39.A7.A8.A$33.4AB7.3A6.3A$33.A2.AB6.A8.A$34.6B
4.2A7.2A$27.2A6.11B2.7B$28.A7.8B3.6B$28.A.AB2.10B3.8B$23.2A4.2AB.13B
2.7B$24.A5.16B2.9B$24.A.AB3.15B3.8B$10.2A7.2A4.2AB.27B$9.B2AB7.A6.29B
$10.2B8.A.AB3.28B6.2A$5.B3.2B10.2AB4.26B.B5.A$4.2AB.4B11.3B.30B.BA.A$
4.2A8B9.34B.B2A$5.B.B2A6B2.2B2.37B$8.2A49B$8.24B.26B$4.28B2.24B$4.28B
2.25B$3.2A49B.4B$3.2A14B.4B6.24B.3B$4.B.11B2.4B8.22B$6.10B2.4B8.B.21B
$7.7BA6B8.A2B.20B$6.7B2A5B8.A.A22B.2A$7.5BA7B9.AB.22B.A$7.6B2A5B12.
20B2.A$9.2B.BABA4B13.7B.8B4.A$12.2BA5B13.6B2.9B4.3A$11.3BABA3B11.2AB
7.7B.B2A4.A$10.8BAB10.A.AB8.6B.BA.A$10.3B.2BABA2B9.A5.2A4.6B4.A2.A$8.
4B2.8B7.2A6.A4.6B4.4A$8.2A5.8B14.A.AB.7B$5.A3.A5.8B15.2AB2.6B5.4A$5.
4A5.6B2.B2A15.8B5.A3.A$14.7B.BA.A14.8B5.2A$7.4A4.6B4.A6.2A7.8B2.4B$7.
A2.A4.6B4.2A5.A9.7B.3B$10.A.AB.2B2A2B8.BA.A10.10B$6.A4.2AB.2B2A3B7.B
2A11.9B$6.3A4.9B2.6B13.8B$9.A4.3BA4B.7B13.8B.2B$8.A2.5B3A12B12.13B$7.
A.5B2AB2A12B.BA9.13B$7.2A.4BA2BABA12BA.A8.14B$10.4BA4BA10B.2BA8.14B$
10.5BA15B.B8.4B2.10B$10.6BA15B8.4B2.11B.B$5.3B.11BA12B6.4B.14B2A$4.4B
.49B2A$4.16BA8B2.28B$5.13BABA8B2.28B$4.26B.24B$4.49B2A$4.37B2.2B2.6B
2AB.B$2.2AB.34B9.8B2A$.A.AB.30B.4B10.4B.B2A$.A5.B.26B3.4B10.2B3.B$2A
6.28B3.4B8.2B$7.29B4.4B6.B2AB$7.BA25B.B2A3.4B6.2A$6.3A5B3.15B3.BA.A3.
4B$6.BA4BABA2.16B5.A4.4B$8.A5BA2.13B.B2A4.2A4.4B$8.5B3A3.10B2.BA.A10.
4B$10.6B3.8B7.A11.4B$8.7B2.11B6.2A11.4B$8.2A7.2A4.6B19.4B$9.A8.A6.BA
2.A19.4B$6.3A6.3A7.B4A20.4B$6.A8.A7.A27.4B$23.5A24.4B$27.A25.3BA$25.A
28.3BA$25.2A28.3AB!

That's p522, not p476.

[simeks]

Maybe this is known, but it isn't mentioned in the Wiki.

23334M which is listed as a 12 cell methuselah, has this 11 cell equivalent form in the same 5-by-8 bounding box (original to the left, 11 cell form to the right):

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 8, rule = LifeHistory
2.A29.A$2A31.2A$.A31.A$A2.A$4.A30.2A$.A2.A28.A2.A$2.A.A31.A$.A31.2A!

Edit:
@Nathaniel: Thanks!
And, another 11 cell, 5-by-8 that lasts longer (18034 gens) that Bunnies 11:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 5, rule = LifeHistory
3.A3.A$5.3A$4A2.A2$.A!

[Nathaniel]

23334M which is listed as a 12 cell methuselah, has this 11 cell equivalent form in the same 5-by-8 bounding box (original to the left, 11 cell form to the right):

I'm quite certain that this is new, and that the previous 11-cell record holder was indeed bunnies 11 (17465 generations). Congratulations!