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Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 10th, 2015, 1:01 pm

Scorbie wrote:I also said sth similar and here's the response I got.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1600&p=16520&hilit=bounding+box#p16527


simsim's response in the linked thread was:

simsim314 wrote:You can create any glider gun period with constant number of initial cells. Think of duplicator and three snarks, you just need to adjust the timing and placement properly.

On the other hand inside some box you can't place all the possible guns, as inside a box there is 2^(w * h) possible patterns (and thus periods), which limits your options


To make things more concrete I tried to find a low population gun for each congruency class modulo 8. My best selection so far is:

x = 1166, y = 150, rule = B3/S23
590bo11b2o$589bobo10b2o$581bo3b2o2bobo$572b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o$572b2o6bo
bo3bobo$383bo11b2o184bob4o2bob2o$382bobo10b2o186bo3bobob2o$374bo3b2o2b
obo197bo3bobo$365b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o195bo3bobo$365b2o6bobo3bobo199b2o3b
o$374bob4o2bob2o$376bo3bobob2o$375bo3bobo$374bo3bobo213b2o$374b2o3bo
214b2o$609b2o375b2o$608bo2bo374b2o$391b3o215b2obo529bo11b2o$209bo183bo
168b2o48bo528bobo10b2o$209b3o179b3o168b2o48b2o519bo3b2o2bobo$212bo189b
2o193b2o525b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o$29bo181b2o6bo181bo2bo193bo525b2o6bobo3bo
bo$29b3o186bobo181b2obo189b3o189bo11b2o332bob4o2bob2o$32bo186bo135b2o
48bo177b2o10bo190bobo10b2o334bo3bobob2o$31b2o6bo315b2o48b2o176bobo192b
o3b2o2bobo345bo3bobo$38bobo349b2o193bo183b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o181b2o160bo
3bobo$39bo166b2o183bo193b2o182b2o6bobo3bobo185b2o160b2o3bo$206b2o6b2o
172b3o387bob4o2bob2o$214b2o160b2o10bo391bo3bobob2o$26b2o348bobo400bo3b
obo$26b2o6b2o187b2o153bo399bo3bobo361b2o$34b2o187b2o153b2o398b2o3bo
167b2o11bo181b2o$951b2o10bobo195b2o$43b2o163b2o753bobo2b2o3bo186bo2bo$
43b2o162bobo585b3o164b2ob2o2bo2bobo186b2obo$207bo589bo168bobo3bobo139b
2o48bo$28b2o176b2o587b3o164b2obo2b4obo17b2o121b2o48b2o$27bobo776b2o
154b2obobo3bo19bo157b2o$27bo777bo2bo157bobo3bo19b3o155bo$26b2o778b2obo
157bobo3bo20bo152b3o$578bo180b2o48bo158bo3b2o161b2o10bo$579b2o178b2o
48b2o324bobo$578b2o214b2o341bo$795bo158b3o180b2o$792b3o159bo186b2o$
371bo408b2o10bo161b3o185bo$372b2o406bobo161b2o196bobo$371b2o409bo160bo
2bo185bo10b2o$782b2o158bob2o184b3o$786b2o144b2o8bo186bo$787bo137b2o5b
2o7b2o186b2o$787bobo135b2o29b2o32b2o122b2o48b2o$777bo10b2o166bo33b2o
123bo48b2o$183b2o5b2o583b3o179b3o24b2o129bob2o$184bo5b2o582bo152b2o24b
o5bo24b2o130bo2bo$184bobo76b2o509b2o151b2o24b3o161b2o$3b2o5b2o173b2o
76bo495b2o48b2o110b2o33bo170b3o$4bo5b2o70b2o105b2o70bobo377b3o116bo48b
2o110b2o32b2o29b2o139bo$4bobo75bo105bobo28bo37b2o2b2o378bo118bob2o206b
2o7b2o5b2o139b3o$5b2o73bobo106bo29b3o35b2o383bo118bo2bo205bo8b2o$9b2o
27bo37b2o2b2o140bo539b2o203b2obo$8bobo27b3o35b2o107b2o22bo11b2o11b2o
536b3o191bo2bo171bo3b2o$9bo31bo141bob2o20b3o24b2o198b3o335bo194b2o171b
obo3bo$5bo22bo11b2o11b2o127bo23bo227bo337b3o177b2o185bobo3bo$4bobo19b
3o24b2o130bo20b2o227bo516b2o181b2obobo3bo$3bo3bo17bo155b2obo6b2o942b2o
bo2b4obo5b2o$2bo3bo18b2o154b2o9bo593bo3b2o347bobo3bobo5bo$bo3bo4b2o
180bob2o589bobo3bo343b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o$o3bo6bo181bo2bo587bobo3bo148b
2o3bo191bobo2b2o3bo3bo$bobo7bob2o179b2o9bo574b2obobo3bo149bo3bobo178b
2o10bobo$2bo9bo2bo190b2ob2o569b2obo2b4obo5b2o141bo3bobo177b2o11bo$13b
2o190b2o2b2o34b2o537bobo3bobo5bo142bo3bobob2o$23b3o218bobo18b2o513b2ob
2o2bo2bobo2b3o141bob4o2bob2o$23bo40b2o178bo20bobo513bobo2b2o3bo3bo142b
obo3bobo$23b3o37bobo18b2o157b2o22bo501b2o10bobo154bobo2bo2b2ob2o$63bo
20bobo131bo3b2o43b2o500b2o11bo156bo3b2o2bobo$62b2o22bo130bobo3bo723bob
o10b2o$37bo3b2o43b2o128bobo3bo725bo11b2o$36bobo3bo169b2obobo3bo7b3o$
35bobo3bo170b2obo2b4obo$31b2obobo3bo175bobo3bobo3bo3bo$31b2obo2b4obo5b
3o161b2ob2o2bo2bobo3bo3bo27b2obo661b2o$35bobo3bobo5bo163bobo2b2o3bo36b
2ob3o658bo2bo$31b2ob2o2bo2bobo35b2obo118b2o10bobo12bo3bo33bo658b2o$32b
obo2b2o3bo5b3o28b2ob3o116b2o11bo12bob3obo26b2ob3o$20b2o10bobo12bo3bo
33bo141bo5bo27bobo$20b2o11bo12bo5bo26b2ob3o141b2obobob2o26bobo$46bobob
obo27bobo142bo2b2ob2o2bo26bo$45b2obobob2o26bobo142b2o7b2o$44bo2b2ob2o
2bo26bo$44b2o7b2o362bo$418bo$416b3o15$480b2o$479b2o$481bo9$680b2o$681b
o$681bobo$671bo10b2o$669b3o$473b2o193bo$474bo193b2o$474bobo176b2o48b2o
$464bo10b2o177bo48b2o$462b3o189bob2o$461bo193bo2bo$461b2o193b2o$446b2o
48b2o168b3o$447bo48b2o168bo$447bob2o215b3o$448bo2bo$449b2o$459b3o218bo
3b2o$459bo219bobo3bo$459b3o216bobo3bo$674b2obobo3bo$674b2obo2b4obo5b2o
$473bo3b2o199bobo3bobo5bo$472bobo3bo195b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o$471bobo3bo
197bobo2b2o3bo3bo$467b2obobo3bo186b2o10bobo$467b2obo2b4obo5b2o177b2o
11bo$471bobo3bobo5bo$467b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o$468bobo2b2o3bo3bo$456b2o10b
obo$456b2o11bo!


The seven guns above have periods 16n, 16n + 8, 4n + 1, 8n + 2, 4n + 3, 8n + 4 and 8n + 6 respectively. From this you should be able to create any gun of sufficiently high period. The gun of highest population is the 16n+8 that has 216 cells. The gun of the highest period is the 8n + 4 that has period 556. So I think it is correct to say:

If N > 548 then there exists a gun of period N with minimum repeating population less than or equal to 216 cells.
chris_c
 
Posts: 788
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » April 10th, 2015, 3:22 pm

dvgrn wrote:Okay, with everything under a 9000-cell bounding box now, the Hall of Shame no longer contains anything shameful as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't say shameful of course, but there are still a lot of easy targets in the high period range, like this new p827 which improves 30 different guns if I count correctly:

x = 82, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
38b2o3b2o$17b2o3b2o14b2o2bob3o$17b2o2bob3o16bo4bo$21bo4bo11b4ob2o2bo$
17b4ob2o2bo11bo2bobobob2o$17bo2bobobob2o13bobobobo$20bobobobo15b2obobo
$21b2obobo19bo$25bo$32b2o$11b2o20bo7b2o$12bo7b2o11bobo5b2o$12bobo5b2o
12b2o$13b2o6$44b2o16bo$23b2o19bo3bo13b3o$23bo21b4o16bo$4bo19b3o37bobo$
2b5o14b3o2bo20b4o13bobo$bo5bo13bo2bo21bo3bo14bo$bo2b3o12bobo2b2o20b2o$
2obo15b2o$o2b4o$b2o3bo3b2o42b2o$3b3o4b2o43bo24b2o$3bo51bob2o21b2o$2obo
43b2o4b3o2bo$2ob2o42b2o3bo3b2o$52b4o$38b2o15bo4b2o$11b2o24bobo12b3o4bo
bo$12bo24bo13bo7bo$9b3o24b2o14b5ob2o7b2o$9bo46bobo8b2o$52b2o2bobo$52b
2o3bo17b2obo$75b2ob3o$4bo76bo$2b5o14b2o52b2ob3o$bo5bo13bo2bo49bo2b2o$b
o2b3o12bobob2o48bobo$2obo15b2obo32bo16bobob2obo$o2b4o15bo32b3o15bo2bob
2o$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o33bo17bo$3b3o4b2o13bo31b2o16b2o$3bo20b2o46bobo2b2o$
2obo68b2o2bo2bo$2ob2o72b2o3$11b2o28b3o34b2o$12bo28bo36bo$9b3o22b2o6bo
33bobo$9bo17b2o5bobo39b2o$27b2o7bo$36b2o12b2o$49bo$23bo26bobo5b2o$22bo
bob2o23bo6b2o$22bobobobo29bo$21b2obobobo2bo23b2o$22bo2b2ob4o22bo2bo$
22bo4bo26bobo$23b3obo2b2o23bo25bo$25b2o3b2o30b2o15bobo$62b2o16b2o!

This includes the tentative guns p107, p125, p167, p175, p313, p321, p329 and p337, all of which work without adjustment as shown below:

x = 987, y = 82, rule = B3/S23
932b2o3b2o$911b2o3b2o14b2o2bob3o$784b2o3b2o15b2o3b2o98b2o2bob3o16bo4bo
$39b2o3b2o633b2o3b2o98b2o2bob3o13b2o2bob3o100bo4bo11b4ob2o2bo$18b2o3b
2o14b2o2bob3o610b2o3b2o14b2o2bob3o100bo4bo16bo4bo95b4ob2o2bo11bo2bobob
ob2o$18b2o2bob3o16bo4bo482b2o3b2o15b2o3b2o98b2o2bob3o16bo4bo95b4ob2o2b
o12b4ob2o2bo95bo2bobobob2o13bobobobo$22bo4bo11b4ob2o2bo482b2o2bob3o13b
2o2bob3o100bo4bo11b4ob2o2bo95bo2bobobob2o11bo2bobobob2o97bobobobo15b2o
bobo$18b4ob2o2bo11bo2bobobob2o485bo4bo16bo4bo95b4ob2o2bo11bo2bobobob2o
97bobobobo15bobobobo99b2obobo19bo$18bo2bobobob2o13bobobobo482b4ob2o2bo
12b4ob2o2bo95bo2bobobob2o13bobobobo99b2obobo16b2obobo103bo$21bobobobo
15b2obobo102b2o3b2o15b2o3b2o227b2o3b2o15b2o3b2o95bo2bobobob2o11bo2bobo
bob2o97bobobobo15b2obobo103bo21bo111b2o$22b2obobo19bo103b2o2bob3o13b2o
2bob3o225b2o2bob3o13b2o2bob3o96bobobobo15bobobobo99b2obobo19bo217b2o
20bo7b2o$26bo128bo4bo16bo4bo120b2o3b2o101bo4bo16bo4bo96b2obobo16b2obob
o103bo111b2o20b2o104bo7b2o11bobo5b2o$33b2o116b4ob2o2bo12b4ob2o2bo99b2o
3b2o14b2o2bob3o95b4ob2o2bo12b4ob2o2bo100bo21bo111b2o104bo7b2o12bo7b2o
95bobo5b2o12b2o$12b2o7b3o10bo7b2o107bo2bobobob2o11bo2bobobob2o98b2o2bo
b3o16bo4bo94bo2bobobob2o11bo2bobobob2o212b2o20bo7b2o95bobo5b2o12bobo5b
2o96b2o$13bo6bo3bo9bobo5b2o110bobobobo15bobobobo103bo4bo11b4ob2o2bo97b
obobobo15bobobobo86b2o20b2o104bo7b2o11bobo5b2o96b2o20b2o$13bobo4bo3bo
10b2o118b2obobo16b2obobo99b4ob2o2bo11bo2bobobob2o97b2obobo16b2obobo87b
o7b2o12bo7b2o95bobo5b2o12b2o$14b2o2b2o5b2o132bo21bo100bo2bobobob2o13bo
bobobo102bo21bo88bobo5b2o12bobo5b2o96b2o277b2o$17bo4bo4bo257bobobobo
15b2obobo214b2o20b2o381bobo$17bo3bobo3bo13b2o102b2o20b2o117b2obobo19bo
89b2o20b2o256b2o124b2o125bo$17bo4bob2obo12bobo103bo7b2o12bo7b2o112bo
111bo7b2o12bo7b2o246bobo123bobo129b2o$18b3o21bo103bobo5b2o12bobo5b2o
119b2o103bobo5b2o12bobo5b2o121b2o125bo125bo108b2o19bo$147b2o20b2o105b
2o20bo7b2o95b2o20b2o127bobo233b2o20b2o103bo21b3o$45b2o230bo7b2o11bobo
5b2o248bo128b2o103bo21bo85bo19b3o20bo$24b2o19bo231bobo4bo2bo11b2o109b
2o252b2o19bo85bo19b3o19b3o80b5o14b3o2bo$24bo21b3o229b2o131b2o124b2o20b
2o103bo21b3o80b5o14b3o2bo21bo79bo5bo13bo2bo$5bo19b3o20bo238bo122bo126b
o21bo85bo19b3o20bo79bo5bo13bo2bo103bo2b3o12bobo2b2o$3b5o14b3o2bo157bob
o99b2o229bo19b3o19b3o80b5o14b3o2bo100bo2b3o12bobo2b2o101b2obo15b2o$2bo
5bo13bo2bo160b2o98bo229b5o14b3o2bo21bo79bo5bo13bo2bo101b2obo15b2o106bo
2b4o$2bo2b3o12bobo2b2o130b2o20b2o5bo226b2o20b2o78bo5bo13bo2bo103bo2b3o
12bobo2b2o100bo2b4o121b2o3bo3b2o$b2obo15b2o135bo21bo233bo21bo79bo2b3o
12bobo2b2o101b2obo15b2o106b2o3bo3b2o118b3o4b2o$bo2b4o63bo66bo19b3o19b
3o16bo109b2o16bo66bo19b3o19b3o16bo58b2obo15b2o48bo57bo2b4o63bo58b3o4b
2o60bo57bo69bo$2b2o3bo3b2o58b3o62b5o14b3o2bo21bo16b3o86b2o19bo3bo13b3o
62b5o14b3o2bo21bo16b3o56bo2b4o62b3o56b2o3bo3b2o58b3o56bo68b3o52b2obo
69b3o$4b3o4b2o61bo60bo5bo13bo2bo43bo85bo21b4o16bo60bo5bo13bo2bo43bo56b
2o3bo3b2o60bo57b3o4b2o61bo52b2obo71bo51b2ob2o71bo$4bo53bo14bobo59bo2b
3o12bobo2b2o26bo14bobo65bo19b3o37bobo59bo2b3o12bobo2b2o26bo14bobo57b3o
4b2o44bo14bobo56bo53bo14bobo51b2ob2o54bo14bobo110bo14bobo$b2obo51b3o
14bobo58b2obo10bo4b2o18bo10b3o14bobo63b5o14b3o2bo20b4o13bobo58b2obo15b
2o29b3o14bobo57bo50b3o14bobo53b2obo51b3o14bobo108b3o14bobo108b3o14bobo
$b2ob2o49bo10bobo5bo59bo2b4o4bob2o22bobo9bo18bo63bo5bo13bo2bo21bo3bo
14bo59bo2b4o42bo18bo55b2obo49bo18bo54b2ob2o49bo18bo108bo18bo62b2o44bo
18bo$55b2o10b2o66b2o3bo3bo4bo22b2o9b2o81bo2b3o12bobo2b2o20b2o78b2o3bo
3b2o37b2o73b2ob2o48b2o126b2o81b2o43b2o81bo44b2o$67bo69b3o4bo120b2obo
15b2o8bo98b3o4b2o16bo360bo123b3o$12b2o123bo7bo119bo2b4o22b2o97bo24b2o
232b2o122b3o124bo$13bo10b2o37b2o69b2obo53b2o73b2o3bo3b2o16bobo23b2o69b
2obo23bobo27b2o76b2o48b2o76bo49b2o71bo54b2o126b2o$10b3o10b2o39bo24b2o
43b2ob2o53bo24b2o49b3o4b2o43bo24b2o43b2ob2o53bo24b2o51bo49bo24b2o47b3o
51bo24b2o86bobo12bo24b2o86bobo12bo24b2o$10bo14bo38bob2o21b2o101bob2o
21b2o49bo51bob2o8b3o10b2o101bob2o21b2o48b3o50bob2o21b2o47bo53bob2o21b
2o87b2o12bob2o21b2o87b2o12bob2o21b2o$51bobo2b2o4b3o2bo116b2o4b3o2bo69b
2obo43b2o4b3o2bo8b3o105b2o4b3o2bo71bo39bobo2b2o4b3o2bo111bobo2b2o4b3o
2bo110bo5b2o4b3o2bo110bo5b2o4b3o2bo$52b2o2b2o3bo3b2o78b2o37b2o3bo3b2o
70b2ob2o42b2o3bo3b2o8bo3bo65b2o37b2o3bo3b2o113b2o2b2o3bo3b2o113b2o2b2o
3bo3b2o117b2o3bo3b2o62bo54b2o3bo3b2o$52bo8b4o81bo8b3o31b4o124b4o10b2ob
2o66bo42b4o12bo102bo8b4o115bo8b4o124b4o62b5o14b2o41b4o$14b2o31b2o15bo
4b2o72b3o11bo17b2o15bo4b2o7b3o94b2o15bo4b2o72b3o29b2o15bo4b2o5b3o96b2o
15bo4b2o104b2o15bo4b2o60bo43b2o15bo4b2o55bo5bo13bo28b2o15bo4b2o$4bo10b
2o29bobo12b3o4bobo72bo12bo17bobo12b3o4bobo77b2o24bobo12b3o4bobo72bo30b
obo12b3o4bobo5bob2o94bobo12b3o4bobo61bo41bobo12b3o4bobo58b5o14b2o24bob
o12b3o4bobo55bo2b3o12bobo27bobo12b3o4bobo$2b5o7bo6b2o23bo13bo7bo105bo
13bo7bo8bobo69bo24bo13bo7bo105bo13bo7bo5b6o94bo13bo7bo61b5o14b2o23bo
13bo7bo59bo5bo13bo25bo13bo7bo56b2obo15b2o28bo13bo7bo$bo5bo13bo23b2o14b
5ob2o104b2o14b5ob2o8bo68b3o24b2o14b5ob2o104b2o14b5ob2o6bo2bo55bo38b2o
14b5ob2o7b2o51bo5bo13bo23b2o14b5ob2o7b2o50bo2b3o12bobo24b2o14b5ob2o7b
2o47bo2b4o41b2o14b5ob2o7b2o$bo2b3o12bobo43bobo8b3o114bobo8b2o68bo46bob
o125bobo8b2o54b5o14b2o40bobo8b2o51bo2b3o12bobo43bobo8b2o49b2obo15b2o
45bobo8b2o48b2o3bo3b2o56bobo8b2o$2obo15b2o40b2o2bobo8b3o110b2o2bobo10b
o110b2o2bobo121b2o2bobo63bo5bo13bo37b2o2bobo60b2obo15b2o40b2o2bobo59bo
2b4o55b2o2bobo60b3o4b2o52b2o2bobo$o2b4o54b2o3bo9b2o6b2obo101b2o3bo17b
2obo101b2o3bo17b2obo101b2o3bo17b2obo43bo2b3o12bobo37b2o3bo17b2obo40bo
2b4o54b2o3bo17b2obo40b2o3bo3b2o50b2o3bo17b2obo40bo60b2o3bo17b2obo$b2o
3bo3b2o63bo8b2ob3o48bo73b2ob3o122b2ob3o48bo73b2ob3o40b2obo15b2o61b2ob
3o39b2o3bo3b2o72b2ob3o40b3o4b2o73b2ob3o35b2obo83b2ob3o$3b3o4b2o61b2o2b
o12bo45b5o14b2o61bo127bo45b5o14b2o61bo39bo2b4o81bo40b3o4b2o78bo39bo87b
o34b2ob2o88bo$3bo70bo3bo5b2ob3o45bo5bo13bo56b2ob3o50bo71b2ob3o45bo5bo
13bo56b2ob3o41b2o3bo3b2o70b2ob3o41bo80b2ob3o37b2obo81b2ob3o122b2ob3o$
2obo70bo2bo5bo2b2o47bo2b3o12bobo55bo2b2o50b5o14b2o52bo2b2o47bo2b3o12bo
bo55bo2b2o45b3o4b2o69bo2b2o40b2obo79bo2b2o39b2ob2o79bo2b2o123bo2b2o$2o
b2o70b3o4bobo49b2obo15b2o55bobo52bo5bo13bo2bo49bobo49b2obo15b2o55bobo
48bo76bobo43b2ob2o77bobo125bobo51b2o72bobo$64bo16bobob2obo45bo2b4o51bo
16bobob2obo48bo2b3o12bobob2o31bo16bobob2obo45bo2b4o51bo16bobob2obo41b
2obo58bo16bobob2obo103bo16bobob2obo103bo16bobob2obo48bo54bo16bobob2obo
$64b3o15bo2bob2o46b2o3bo3b2o46b3o15bo2bob2o47b2obo15b2obo33b3o15bo2bob
2o46b2o3bo3b2o24bo21b3o15bo2bob2o41b2ob2o57b3o15bo2bob2o103b3o15bo2bob
2o49b2o52b3o15bo2bob2o45b3o55b3o15bo2bob2o$11b2o17bo36bo17bo51b3o4b2o
12bo36bo17bo50bo2b4o15bo36bo17bo51b3o4b2o12bo11bobo22bo17bo72bo36bo17b
o53b2o17bo36bo17bo53bo18bo36bo17bo48bo23bo36bo17bo$12bo17b3o33b2o16b2o
51bo20b3o33b2o16b2o51b2o3bo3b2o10b3o7bo25b2o16b2o51bo20b3o9b2o22b2o16b
2o72b3o33b2o16b2o54bo17b3o33b2o16b2o50b3o19b3o33b2o16b2o72b3o33b2o16b
2o$9b3o21bo47bobo2b2o46b2obo23bo47bobo2b2o51b3o4b2o13bo6bobo38bobo2b2o
46b2obo23bo47bobo2b2o53b2o18bo47bobo2b2o49b3o21bo47bobo2b2o48bo24bo47b
obo2b2o73bo47bobo2b2o$9bo22b2o47b2o2bo2bo45b2ob2o21b2o47b2o2bo2bo50bo
20b2o6b2o39b2o2bo2bo45b2ob2o21b2o47b2o2bo2bo53bo17b2o47b2o2bo2bo48bo
22b2o47b2o2bo2bo71b2o47b2o2bo2bo71b2o47b2o2bo2bo$86b2o126b2o48b2obo74b
2o126b2o51b3o72b2o126b2o126b2o126b2o$165bo98b2ob2o254bo$34b2o109b2o16b
2o236b2o$34b2o14b3o34b2o57bo17b2o12b3o34b2o89b3o34b2o57bo31b3o34b2o89b
3o34b2o89b3o34b2o89b3o34b2o89b3o34b2o$34bobo13bo36bo55b3o32bo36bo59b2o
29bo36bo55b3o32bo36bo90bo36bo90bo36bo90bo36bo90bo36bo$35bo15bo33bobo
55bo35bo33bobo60bo30bo33bobo55bo35bo33bobo91bo33bobo91bo33bobo91bo33bo
bo91bo33bobo$35bo6b2o41b2o83b2o41b2o58b3o22b2o41b2o83b2o41b2o83b2o41b
2o83b2o41b2o83b2o41b2o83b2o41b2o$42bobo118b2o5bobo100bo17b2o5bobo118b
2o5bobo118b2o5bobo118b2o5bobo118b2o5bobo118b2o5bobo$44bo14b2o102b2o7bo
14b2o102b2o7bo14b2o102b2o7bo14b2o102b2o7bo14b2o102b2o7bo14b2o102b2o7bo
14b2o102b2o7bo14b2o$44b2o12bo113b2o12bo113b2o12bo113b2o12bo113b2o12bo
113b2o12bo113b2o12bo113b2o12bo$59bobo5b2o118bobo5b2o118bobo5b2o118bobo
5b2o118bobo5b2o118bobo5b2o118bobo5b2o118bobo5b2o$31bo28bo6b2o90bo28bo
6b2o90bo28bo6b2o90bo28bo6b2o90bo28bo6b2o90bo28bo6b2o90bo28bo6b2o90bo
28bo6b2o$30bobob2o31bo90bobob2o31bo90bobob2o31bo90bobob2o31bo90bobob2o
31bo90bobob2o31bo90bobob2o31bo90bobob2o31bo$30bobobobo27b2o92bobobobo
27b2o92bobobobo27b2o92bobobobo27b2o92bobobobo27b2o92bobobobo27b2o92bob
obobo27b2o92bobobobo27b2o$29b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo90b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo
90b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo90b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo90b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo90b2obo
bobo2bo23bo2bo90b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo90b2obobobo2bo23bo2bo$30bo2b2ob4o
23bobo92bo2b2ob4o23bobo92bo2b2ob4o23bobo92bo2b2ob4o23bobo92bo2b2ob4o
23bobo92bo2b2ob4o23bobo92bo2b2ob4o23bobo92bo2b2ob4o23bobo$30bo4bo28bo
25bo67bo4bo28bo25bo67bo4bo28bo25bo67bo4bo28bo25bo67bo4bo28bo25bo67bo4b
o28bo25bo67bo4bo28bo25bo67bo4bo28bo25bo$31b3obo2b2o31b2o15bobo68b3obo
2b2o31b2o15bobo68b3obo2b2o31b2o15bobo68b3obo2b2o31b2o15bobo68b3obo2b2o
31b2o15bobo68b3obo2b2o31b2o15bobo68b3obo2b2o31b2o15bobo68b3obo2b2o31b
2o15bobo$33b2o3b2o31b2o16b2o70b2o3b2o31b2o16b2o70b2o3b2o31b2o16b2o70b
2o3b2o31b2o16b2o70b2o3b2o31b2o16b2o70b2o3b2o31b2o16b2o70b2o3b2o31b2o
16b2o70b2o3b2o31b2o16b2o!
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 10th, 2015, 7:34 pm

simeks wrote:I wouldn't say shameful of course, but there are still a lot of easy targets in the high period range, like this new p827 which improves 30 different guns if I count correctly


Yep I agree: 30 new records for that gun. Very good. All of the sub-period guns you posted match the area predicted by my script which is nice and reassuring.
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby Freywa » April 11th, 2015, 7:29 am

chris_c wrote:
If N > 548 then there exists a gun of period N with minimum repeating population less than or equal to 216 cells.

Ah, but what about the smaller periods? If the Herschels and syringes don't work there, what's the smallest population we can get for (say) the p17 gun?
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby dvgrn » April 11th, 2015, 9:14 pm

Freywa wrote:Ah, but what about the smaller periods? If the Herschels and syringes don't work there, what's the smallest population we can get for (say) the p17 gun?

Herschels and syringes still work fine -- it's just that for the low periods, they work in basically the same way that the old pre-syringe and pre-Snark technology used to work. Still, the lower-period guns are definitely subject to upper limits.

The p17 gun, for example, is made up of eight p68 Herschel loops which contribute four LWSSes for the two final tight insertions at p68. An initial set of two bootstrapped p102 Herschel factories produce a pseudo-p34 glider stream: the first one contributes two gliders, and the second one fits the last glider in.

No doubt we can build a better pseudo p34 nowadays, so that's a place to start.

The transparent-beehive inserter can drop a glider in just 30 ticks behind another glider, and as close as 23 ticks ahead of the next glider, so it has no trouble thickening a p68 stream to make a p34 stream -- but we still need *WSS collisions to thicken p34 to get p17, let alone to thicken p28 to get the minimum p14.

To get a population estimate for a given period, just move all the insertion points for an existing low-period gun far away from each other so that no extra cells have to be used to fit the pieces together, and then substitute in the minimum-population syringe-assisted guns or Herschel factories in place of whatever was used in the old gun.

The old low-period guns could all have been rebuilt with lower population and higher bounding box, even without the new G-to-H... in fact, most of them could have been rebuilt with a smaller bounding box at any time, if someone had wanted to make the effort. So there are a lot of possibilities that would have to be re-checked now.

For example, is it better to start with a p85 two-glider gun now -- initial inserter plus a second output bent around to make p85 stream with gliders at 0 and 34, let's say? Then just three insertions would be needed. But all three would be expensive (LWSS+spark collisions) and we might even need some different technology to provide a p5 helper spark to make the LWSSes and to do the final insertion, instead of the p4 sparkers in the current p29 gun.

We still can't do the final insertions with a single set of p34 LWSS collisions instead of two sets of p68 collisions, for the same reason -- we need those p4 sparkers.

So quite likely starting out at p102 is still the way to go, but maybe p68 will now turn out to be cheaper overall. It's hard to tell without doing trial constructions of all the different options and seeing what problems show up.

On the other hand, it might possibly be cheaper now to borrow extra glider streams from somewhere and collide them with fancy eaters to make the necessary sparks. Then possibly we could start with a p51 stream and make two insertions, since Snarks can reflect p51 streams with no problem.

Way too many options. Will need a new kind of specialist to keep track of them all...!
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 12th, 2015, 9:13 pm

dvgrn wrote:Way too many options.


I agree with that. A nice plan of attack for the p17 has been eluding me for days. In the end I managed to make a pretty reasonable p85 LWSS gun. It uses a H->pre-block component that I made myself. I don't know if it was known before. I think that six of these guns should be better than eight of those p68 Herschel loop guns, especially because the components in this gun are a lot more flexible.

x = 166, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
28bo11b2o116b3o$27bobo10b2o116bo2bo$19bo3b2o2bobo128bo$10b2o6bobo2bo2b
2ob2o127bo$10b2o6bobo3bobo132bobo$19bob4o2bob2o$21bo3bobo$20bo3bobo2bo
2bo$19bo3bobo6bo$19b2o3bo5bo74b2o$30b2o3bo69bobo$32bo74bo4b2o$32b2ob2o
66b4ob2o2bo2bo$9b3o91bo2bobobobob2o$8bo2bo94bobobobo$11bo35b2o58b2obob
o$7bo38bo2bo61bo$7bo2bo36b2obo$2o5b3o40bo46b2o$2o4b2o6b2o34b2o46bo$7b
2obo3b3o18b2o61bobo$8b3o25bo62b2o$9bo23b3o70b3o$21b2o10bo72bobo$21bobo
22b3o57bo2bo$23bo22bo60b2o$23b2o22bo2$109b2o$109bo$110b3o$112bo7$79b2o
$80bo49bo$78bo49bobo$78b5o6b3o5b2o30b2o$83bo4bo8bo61bo$80b3o5bo2bo3bob
o60b3o$79bo6b2o3bo3b2o61bob2o$79b4o2bo4bo68b3o$23bo22b2o29b2o3bo2bo3bo
bo67b2o$24bo22bo28bo2b3o3bo4bo$22b3o22bobo26b2obo6b2o4bo$37bo10b2o29bo
8bo3bo$35b3o23bo17b2o7bo3bo$34bo25b3o26b3o$34b2o18b3o3bob2o$19b2o34b2o
6b2o4b2o16b2o$20bo40b3o5b2o17bo$20bob2o36bo2bo21b3o$21bo2bo38bo21bo$
22b2o35bo$59bo2bo$59b3o$34b2ob2o111bo$38bo45bo42bo23b2o$35bo3b2o43b3o
20b2o16b3o13bo8b2o$40bo5bo3b2o35bo18b2o16bo16b3o$38bo6bobo3bo22bo11b2o
11b2o7bo15b2o18bo$38bo2bo2bobo3bo21b3o16bo7b2o42b2o$43bobo3bo21bo17b4o
$40b2obo2b4obo5b2o12b2o15b2o3b2o26b2o$44bobo3bobo5bo32bo3bo21bo4b2o$
40b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o33bo3bo22b2o3b2o26b2o$41bobo2b2o3bo3bo2b3o30bo2b2o
21b2o3b2o26b4o$29b2o10bobo14bo2bo27bo3bo23bo4bo27bob3o$29b2o11bo16b2o
24bo47b2o14bob3o$63b2o2b2o14b2o48b2o15b3o$62b3o2b3o14b2o24b2o38b2o$63b
2obo3bo38bobo$66b5obo36bo52bob2o$66bo5bo35b2o10b2o40b2obo$66bo2b2obo
10bo3b2o32bo$67bo4bo9bobo3bo29b3o9b2o$71b2o8bobo3bo12b2o16bo11bo19b2o$
67b3obo5b2obobo3bo13bobo28bo17bobo$67bo9b2obo2b4obo13bo27b2o17bo7b2o$
68b2o11bobo3bobo12b2o44b2o7bo$77b2ob2o2bo2bobo68b3o$78bobo2b2o3bo71bo$
66b2o10bobo$66b2o11bo!


Also with an eye on the p19 I made a p95 LWSS gun. It uses the more common H->pre-block conduit (at least I think it is correct to call it more common).

x = 169, y = 90, rule = B3/S23
39b2o122b3o$38bobo122bo2bo$32b2o4bo124bo$30bo2bo2b2ob4o120bo$30b2obobo
bobo2bo121bobo$33bobobobo$33bobob2o66b2o$34bo70bobo$107bo4b2o$47b2o54b
4ob2o2bo2bo$47bo55bo2bobobobob2o$45bobo58bobobobo$38bo6b2o60b2obobo$
36b2ob2o70bo$36b2ob2o$36bo2b2o56b2o$37b2o59bo7b2o$98bobo5b2o$99b2o$35b
2o$36bo$33b3o69bo$9bo23bo71b2o$9b3o92bobo$12bo$11b2o96b2o$109bo$110b3o
$3b2o107bo$3bo$2obo$o2b3o8bo$b2o3bo5b2ob2o$3b4o7b3o$3bo15b2o107bo$4b3o
12bobo36b3o68bo$7bo13bo36bo19b2o47b3o$2b5o14b2o36bo19bo$2bo74bo$4bo72b
5o14b2o$3b2o77bo13bo$79b3o12bobo$78bo15b2o$62bobo13b4o$61bo2b2o10b2o3b
o3b2o3b2o$66bo8bo2b3o4b2o3bobo$69bo5b2obo11bo$60bo9bo7bo85bo$49b2o10b
2o7bo7b2o83b3o$50bo18bo92b2obo$50bobo16bo92b3o$40bo10b2o11bo2bo18b2o
75b2o$38b3o24b2o20bo$37bo46b3o$37b2o45bo$22b2o48b2o$23bo8bobo37b2o$23b
ob2o6b2o26bo$24bo2bo5bo14b2o11bobo87bo$25b2o20b3ob2o10bo88b2o$40b2o6b
2ob3o97b2o$40b2o5b3ob2o$47b2o$87bo42bo$87b3o38b3o13bo$49bo3b2o35bo36bo
16b3o$48bobo3bo22bo11b2o11b2o23b2o18bo$47bobo3bo21b3o24b2o42b2o$43b2ob
obo3bo21bo39bo$43b2obo2b4obo5b2o12b2o36b2ob2o$47bobo3bobo5bo53b5o$43b
2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o55bo2bo29bobo$44bobo2b2o3bo3bo2b3o8bo43bo2bo33bobo$
32b2o10bobo14bo2bo5bobo15b2o27b2o36bo$32b2o11bo16b2o7b2o14b2ob2o44b2o
11bo3bobo$77b2o8b2ob2o44b2o11bob2o$77b2o10b3o21b2o$112bobo52b2o$112bo
54b2o$111b2o10b2o$86bo3b2o32bo$85bobo3bo29b3o9b2o$84bobo3bo12b2o16bo
11bo19b2o$80b2obobo3bo13bobo28bo17bobo$80b2obo2b4obo13bo27b2o17bo$84bo
bo3bobo12b2o44b2o$80b2ob2o2bo2bobo$81bobo2b2o3bo$69b2o10bobo$69b2o11bo
!


Finally, I note that p5 LWSS->G inserters already exist. The left one below is from the p14 gun and the one on the right is from the p19 gun and only works for p19 or higher:

x = 66, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
13bobo37bobo$12bo39bo$12bo39bo$12bo2bo36bo2bo$12b3o37b3o4$18b2ob2o35b
2ob2o$17bo39bo$18bobo2bo34bobo2bo$20bo4bo14b2o18bo4bo$19b2ob4o14bobo
16b2ob4o$21bo20bo18bo$2b2o17bobo14b4ob2o16bobo$2ob2o17b2o14bo2bobo18b
2o$4o37bo2bo$b2o39b4o$42bo3$8b7o34b3o$6b3ob3ob3o32bo2bo$5bo4b3o4bo31bo
$6b4obob3obo31bo$16bo33bobo$5bob2obobobo$5b2obobobob2o$9bo2bobo$10b2o
2bo$14b2o!


So I think the road is open to better p17 and p19 guns but I don't particularly feel like completing the job at the moment.
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby Kazyan » April 12th, 2015, 11:24 pm

Unrelated to new circuitry, I trimmed down the Pi-catchers for the p45 gun with Bellman.

x = 48, y = 40, rule = B3/S23
15bo2bo2bo$15b7o2$15b7o$15bo2bo2bo6$16bo2bo$12b2o2bo2bo$12b2o2bo2bo7b
2o$27b2o4b2o3bo2bo3b2o$33b5o4b5o$33b2o3bo2bo3b2o$27b3o2$2ob2o$bobo23b
3o$bobo6b3o$2ob2o29bobo$bobo31b2o$bobo6b3o22bo$2ob2o2$11b2o$11b2o7bo2b
o2b2o$20bo2bo2b2o$20bo2bo3$47bo$45bobo$46b2o$18bo2bo2bo$18b7o2$18b7o$
18bo2bo2bo!
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » April 21st, 2015, 5:21 pm

This family of guns improve about 44 different periods, 9 of which are on the Hall of Shame.

I've tested all tentative guns, and all work except p103, p107 and p111. The signal crossing that causes those to fail isn't adjustable so they can't be fixed.

The tentative guns I've tested are: p206, p214, p222, p309, p313, p317, p321, p325, p329, p333, p337, p341, p405, p413, p421, p429, p437, p445, p453, p461, p469, p477, p493, p501, p509 and p517.

p618:

x = 92, y = 64, rule = B3/S23
65b2o3b2o$63b3obo2b2o$62bo4bo$35b2o3b2o20bo2b2ob4o$35b2o2bob3o17b2obob
obo2bo$39bo4bo17bobobobo$35b4ob2o2bo17bobob2o$35bo2bobobob2o17bo$38bob
obobo$39b2obobo31b2o$43bo23b2o7bo$67b2o5bobo$29b2o43b2o$30bo7b2o$30bob
o5b2o$31b2o4$64b2o$65bo$62b3o$15b2o24b2o19bo$8b2o5b2o24bo$8b2o32b3o42b
o$44bo24b2o14b5o$29b2o36bo2bo13bo5bo$10b2o16bobo5bo30b2obobo12b3o2bo$
10b2o18bo5b3o30bob2o15bob2o$4b2o33bo29bo15b4o2bo$4b2o32b2o12bo14b3o10b
2o3bo3b2o$51bobo12bo13b2o4b3o$51bobo12b2o20bo$50b2ob2o33bob2o$49bo2bo
2bo31b2ob2o$50b2o2b2o$35b2o$35b2o42b2o$79bo$56b2o22b3o$55bobo5b2o17bo$
22b2o3bo27bo7b2o$bo20bo3bobo25b2o$b3o19bo3bobo$4bo19bo3bobob2o34bo$3b
2o17bob4o2bob2o30b2obobo$21bobo3bobo33bobobobo$21bo2bo4bob2obob2o22bo
2bobobob2o$22b2o5bo2bob2obo22b4ob2o2bo$30b2o11b2o19bo4bo$25bo17b2o15b
2o2bob3o$23b3o34b2o3b2o$22bo$22b2o3$2o$2o4$17bo8bo$9b2o5bobo8bo$9b2o6b
o7b3o!

p802:

x = 114, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
35b2o3b2o20b2o3b2o$35b2o2bob3o16b3obo2b2o$39bo4bo14bo4bo$35b4ob2o2bo
14bo2b2ob4o13b2o3b2o$35bo2bobobob2o12b2obobobo2bo13b2o2bob3o$38bobobob
o14bobobobo20bo4bo$39b2obobo14bobob2o17b4ob2o2bo$43bo16bo21bo2bobobob
2o$85bobobobo$29b2o42b2o11b2obobo$30bo7b2o24b2o7bo16bo$30bobo5b2o24b2o
5bobo$31b2o38b2o3b2o$77bo7b2o$77bobo5b2o17bo$78b2o22b3o$101bo$101b2o2$
15b2o24b2o18b2o$8b2o5b2o24bo20bo46b2ob2o$8b2o32b3o14b3o48bob2o$44bo14b
o28b2o20bo$29b2o57bo13b2o4b3o$10b2o16bobo5bo52b3o10b2o3bo3b2o$10b2o18b
o5b3o52bo15b4o2bo$4b2o33bo29bo21bob2o15bob2o$4b2o32b2o12bo14b3o19b2obo
bo12b3o2bo$51bobo12bo21bo3bo13bo5bo$51bobo12b2o19bo2b3o14b5o$50b2ob2o
32b3o19bo$49bo2bo2bo34bo$50b2o2b2o33b2o$35b2o$35b2o2$56b2o$55bobo5b2o$
22b2o3bo27bo7b2o$bo20bo3bobo25b2o43b2o$b3o19bo3bobo62b2o5bobo$4bo19bo
3bobob2o34bo23b2o7bo$3b2o17bob4o2bob2o30b2obobo31b2o$21bobo3bobo33bobo
bobo$21bo2bo4bob2obob2o22bo2bobobob2o17bo$22b2o5bo2bob2obo22b4ob2o2bo
17bobob2o$30b2o11b2o19bo4bo17bobobobo$25bo17b2o15b2o2bob3o17b2obobobo
2bo$23b3o34b2o3b2o20bo2b2ob4o$22bo64bo4bo$22b2o64b3obo2b2o$90b2o3b2o2$
2o$2o4$17bo8bo$9b2o5bobo8bo$9b2o6bo7b3o!

p1002:

x = 138, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
35b2o3b2o20b2o3b2o$35b2o2bob3o16b3obo2b2o$39bo4bo14bo4bo$35b4ob2o2bo
14bo2b2ob4o$35bo2bobobob2o12b2obobobo2bo$38bobobobo14bobobobo$39b2obob
o14bobob2o$43bo16bo50b2o3b2o$109b3obo2b2o$29b2o42b2o5b2o3b2o21bo4bo$
30bo7b2o24b2o7bo6b2o2bob3o19bo2b2ob4o$30bobo5b2o24b2o5bobo10bo4bo17b2o
bobobo2bo$31b2o38b2o7b4ob2o2bo18bobobobo$80bo2bobobob2o17bobob2o$83bob
obobo19bo$84b2obobo$88bo33b2o$113b2o7bo$74b2o37b2o5bobo$15b2o24b2o18b
2o12bo7b2o35b2o$8b2o5b2o24bo20bo12bobo5b2o$8b2o32b3o14b3o14b2o$44bo14b
o$29b2o$10b2o16bobo5bo$10b2o18bo5b3o$4b2o33bo70b2o$4b2o32b2o12bo58bo$
51bobo17bo14b2o20b3o$51bobo15b3o14bo21bo$50b2ob2o13bo18b3o$49bo2bo2bo
12b2o20bo42bo$50b2o2b2o33b2o24b2o14b5o$35b2o76bo2bo13bo5bo$35b2o76b2ob
obo12b3o2bo$115bob2o15bob2o$115bo15b4o2bo$113b3o10b2o3bo3b2o$22b2o3bo
30b2o52bo13b2o4b3o$bo20bo3bobo28bobo5b2o32b2o11b2o20bo$b3o19bo3bobo27b
o7b2o25b2o5bobo32bob2o$4bo19bo3bobob2o22b2o34b2o7bo31b2ob2o$3b2o17bob
4o2bob2o67b2o$21bobo3bobo40bo$21bo2bo4bob2obob2o28b2obobo16bo36b2o$22b
2o5bo2bob2obo27bobobobo15bobob2o32bo$30b2o11b2o17bo2bobobob2o14bobobob
o8b2o22b3o$25bo17b2o17b4ob2o2bo14b2obobobo2bo4bobo5b2o17bo$23b3o40bo4b
o15bo2b2ob4o4bo7b2o$22bo39b2o2bob3o16bo4bo7b2o$22b2o38b2o3b2o19b3obo2b
2o$90b2o3b2o17bo$110b2obobo$2o107bobobobo$2o104bo2bobobob2o$106b4ob2o
2bo$110bo4bo$106b2o2bob3o$17bo8bo79b2o3b2o$9b2o5bobo8bo$9b2o6bo7b3o!
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby dvgrn » April 21st, 2015, 6:44 pm

simeks wrote:This family of guns improve about 44 different periods, 9 of which are on the Hall of Shame.

Nice! Looks like that hive-with-tail variant has already been used where it's needed in the variable gun collection. The same replacement almost allows shrinking p556 to p548, but I don't think there's a workable weld for the central eaters. With just one more lane it would work fine...

The p1002+8N family posted above is really p986+8N:

x = 136, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
35b2o3b2o20b2o3b2o$35b2o2bob3o16b3obo2b2o$39bo4bo14bo4bo$35b4ob2o2bo
14bo2b2ob4o$35bo2bobobob2o12b2obobobo2bo$38bobobobo14bobobobo43b2o3b2o
$39b2obobo14bobob2o42b3obo2b2o$43bo16bo17b2o3b2o21bo4bo$78b2o2bob3o19b
o2b2ob4o$29b2o42b2o7bo4bo17b2obobobo2bo$30bo7b2o24b2o7bo4b4ob2o2bo18bo
bobobo$30bobo5b2o24b2o5bobo4bo2bobobob2o17bobob2o$31b2o38b2o8bobobobo
19bo$82b2obobo$86bo33b2o$111b2o7bo$72b2o37b2o5bobo$73bo7b2o35b2o$73bob
o5b2o$15b2o24b2o18b2o11b2o$8b2o5b2o24bo20bo$8b2o32b3o14b3o$44bo14bo$
29b2o$10b2o16bobo5bo71b2o$10b2o18bo5b3o70bo$4b2o33bo29bo14b2o20b3o$4b
2o32b2o12bo14b3o14bo21bo$51bobo12bo18b3o$51bobo12b2o20bo42bo$50b2ob2o
32b2o24b2o14b5o$49bo2bo2bo55bo2bo13bo5bo$50b2o2b2o55b2obobo12b3o2bo$
35b2o76bob2o15bob2o$35b2o76bo15b4o2bo$111b3o10b2o3bo3b2o$56b2o52bo13b
2o4b3o$55bobo5b2o32b2o11b2o20bo$22b2o3bo27bo7b2o25b2o5bobo32bob2o$bo
20bo3bobo25b2o34b2o7bo31b2ob2o$b3o19bo3bobo69b2o$4bo19bo3bobob2o34bo$
3b2o17bob4o2bob2o30b2obobo16bo36b2o$21bobo3bobo33bobobobo15bobob2o32bo
$21bo2bo4bob2obob2o22bo2bobobob2o14bobobobo8b2o22b3o$22b2o5bo2bob2obo
22b4ob2o2bo14b2obobobo2bo4bobo5b2o17bo$30b2o11b2o19bo4bo15bo2b2ob4o4bo
7b2o$25bo17b2o15b2o2bob3o16bo4bo7b2o$23b3o34b2o3b2o19b3obo2b2o$22bo65b
2o3b2o17bo$22b2o84b2obobo$107bobobobo$104bo2bobobob2o$2o102b4ob2o2bo$
2o106bo4bo$104b2o2bob3o$104b2o3b2o2$17bo8bo$9b2o5bobo8bo$9b2o6bo7b3o!
#C [[ AUTOSTART STEP 8 ZOOM 3 LOOP 9860 ]]
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » April 22nd, 2015, 11:40 am

dvgrn wrote:The p1002+8N family posted above is really p986+8N:

Right! Don't know how I missed that...
EDIT: I meant to say also, that I've verified that p493 still works now that it moves from p802+8n to p986+8n.

Also, the H-to-G reported here (third code field) makes a mod 5-gun at p581+8n that improves all guns in the range p581 to p653 (the sub-period guns don't seem to improve anything):

x = 86, y = 79, rule = B3/S23
17bo11bo$17b3o7b3o$20bo5bo$19b2o5b2o15bo$41b3o$40bo$40b2o3$39b2o$39b2o
$15b2o$14bobo$14bo$13b2o2$54bo11b2o$9bo43bobo10b2o$9b3o33bo3b2o2bobo$
12bo31bobo2bo2b2ob2o$11b2o31bobo3bobo$26b2o17bob4o2bob2o$27bo19bo3bobo
b2o$2ob2o19b3o19bo3bobo$2obo20bo20bo3bobo$3bo41b2o3bo$3b3o4b2o$b2o3bo
3b2o$o2b4o$2obo15b2o37b2o$bo2b3o12bobo36b2o$bo5bo13bo51b2o$2b5o14b2o
49bo2bo$4bo68b2obo$76bo$76b2o$27b2o32b2o$27b2o33bo$33b2o24b3o19bo$33b
2o24bo2b3o14b5o$61bo2bo13bo5bo$60b2o2bobo12b3o2bo$31b2o32b2o15bob2o$
31b2o5b2o39b4o2bo$38b2o34b2o3bo3b2o$74b2o4b3o$82bo$82bob2o$81b2ob2o3$
33bo39b2o$34b2o37bo$33b2o39b3o$76bo2$50bo$48b3o$47bo$47b2o7$37b2o$36bo
bo5b2o$36bo7b2o$35b2o$85bo$49bo33bobo$45b2obobo33b2o$44bobobobo$41bo2b
obobob2o$41b4ob2o2bo$45bo4bo$41b2o2bob3o$41b2o3b2o!
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 22nd, 2015, 7:44 pm

Thanks! I added the p581, p618, p802 and p986. I confirmed all of the tentative guns that improved the Hall of Shame but not the rest.

Here are the latest lists:

*******************************
Hall of Shame (p78 or greater)
*******************************
997 (8840, 'p00973_3')               (5 mod 8)
989 (8755, 'p00973_2')               (5 mod 8)
965 (8732, 'p00901_8')               (5 mod 8)
533 (8692, 'fixed')                  (5 mod 8)
543 (8680, 'p00958_16_p00543')       (7 mod 8)
957 (8673, 'p00901_7')               (5 mod 8)
981 (8670, 'p00973_1')               (5 mod 8)
517 (8662, 'p00986_6_p00517')        (5 mod 8)
961 (8652, 'p00921_5')               (1 mod 8)
999 (8648, 'p00879_15')              (7 mod 8)
949 (8614, 'p00901_6')               (5 mod 8)
973 (8585, 'p00973_0')               (5 mod 8)
953 (8568, 'p00921_4')               (1 mod 8)
941 (8555, 'p00901_5')               (5 mod 8)
991 (8554, 'p00879_14')              (7 mod 8)
893 (8550, 'p00853_5')               (5 mod 8)
509 (8540, 'p00986_4_p00509')        (5 mod 8)
845 (8540, 'p00717_16')              (5 mod 8)
525 (8505, 'fixed')                  (5 mod 8)
933 (8496, 'p00901_4')               (5 mod 8)

*******************************
Hall of Pain (p39 to p77)
*******************************
59 16324
41 15808
58 14245
62 14141
54 13770
51 13566
43 13065
42 12971
57 12017
73 11745
71 11385
39 11252
53 10602
56 10332
61 10332
76 10044
55 9176
49 9169
65 8976
63 8436

*******************************
Hall of the Insane (p14 to p38)
*******************************
17 143637
14 129745
19 106959
21 67575
16 39999
27 36540
28 30016
29 23548
31 22952
18 22750
34 22100
35 21360
26 20400
38 19491
32 17226
33 16006
25 15762
37 15257
15 4004
20 3080


In other news...

Improved p29:

x = 203, y = 116, rule = B3/S23
136b2o$136bobo$138bo$134b4ob2o$134bo2bobobo$139bobo$139bo2b2o$130b2o6b
2o4bo$123b2o5b2o8b5o$124bo15bo4b2o$118bo5bobo9bo6b2o2bo$97b2o19b3o4b2o
9bo7bob2o$96bobo22bo8bo4b2o7bo$96bo23b2o8bo12b2o12b2o$41bo11b2o39b2ob
4o29b2o2b2o2b3o16bobo$40bobo10b2o38bobobo2bo22bo35bo4b2o$32bo3b2o2bobo
50bobo26bobob3o2b2o2b2o18b4ob2o2bo2bo$31bobo2bo2b2ob2o47b2o2bo22b2o2b
2o12bo18bo2bobobobob2o$17b2o12bobo3bobo50bo4b2o21b2o10b2o5bo20bobobobo
$18bo13bob4o2bob2o46b5o6b2o26bobo5bo21b2obobo$18bobo13bo3bobob2o44b2o
4bo12bo24bo3bobo24bo$19b2o12bo3bobo47bo2b2o6bo7bobo20bo2bo4bo$32bo3bob
o48b2obo6b2o8bo22b2o17b2o$32b2o3bo52bo7bo51bo7b2o$5b2o83b2o58bobo5b2o$
5b2o144b2o$41b4o$40b2o2bo49b2o4bo7b2o4b2o$39b2o2bo50b2o3b2o7b2o5b2o50b
o$40bo2bo16b2o38bo13bo53bo$41b2o16bo2bo103b3o$2o58b2obo$2o51b3o7bo33b
2o62b2o$13bo39bo9b2o33bo36bobo23bo$11b2o35b2o4bo40b3o5bo32b2o24b3o$10b
2o37bo45bo6bobo31bo27bo$9bo11bo24b3o36b2o16b2o$10b5o5b2o11b2o11bo38bo
13b2o$11bo21bo49bobo12bobo$34b3o46b2o13bo5b2o40bo$36bo60b2o5b2o40b2o
45bo$145bobo43b3o$42bo49bo42bo54bo$42b3o47b3o38b3o54b2o$45bo21bo27bo
36bo$32bo11b2o11b2o5b5o25b2o11b2o8bo14b2o$30b3o24bo11bo37b2o7b2o80b2o$
29bo37b2o47b3o80bo$24bo4b2o35b2o50bo2bobo75bob2o$14b2o9bo39bo52b2obobo
67b2o4b3o2bo$15bo7b3o95b3o63b6o3bo3b2o$15bob2o74b2o50b3o39bo2bo5b4o$
16bo2bo16b2o55b3o48bo2bo34b2o3bobo9bo$17b2o16bo2bo53bob3o37bo9bo3bo32b
obo12b3o$35bo2b2o42b2o9bob3o34b2o2bo6b2o13bo22bo13bo$34bo2b2o30b2o11b
2o9b4o22b2o11b2ob2o6b3o13bo20b2o14b5o$34b4o32bo23b2o24bo36b3o40bo$67b
3o47b3o6bob2o3bo13b2o49bo$67bo49bo6b3ob2o5bo11bo50b2o$41bo3b2o76bo24b
3o$40bobo3bo39b2o36b3ob2o20bo$39bobo3bo12b2o18b2o7bo3bo16b2o16bobo$35b
2obobo3bo13bobo17b2o4b3o3bobo15bobo15bobo4b2o29bobo$35b2obo2b4obo13bo
23bo5bobo2b2o3bo9bo16bo6bo30b2o$39bobo3bobo12b2o27b2ob2o2bo2bobo8b2o
19b3o31bo$35b2ob2o2bo2bobo45bobo3bobo12b2o15bo$36bobo2b2o3bo42b2obo2b
4obo13bo23bo$24b2o10bobo50b2obobo3bo13bobo23b3o$24b2o11bo55bobo3bo12b
2o27bo$94bobo3bo39b2o$95bo3b2o$121bo42bo6bo$121b3o38b3o6bobo$96bo27bo
36bo9b2o$67b2o17b2o5b5o25b2o11b2o8bo14b2o5b2o$67b2o17bo11bo37b2o7b2o
20bo2bo$71b2o7b2o14b2o47b3o20bobo8bo$70bo2bo5bobo13b2o50bo2bobo16bo10b
2o$69bob2o8bo12bo52b2obobo26b2o$69bo80b3o$68b2o52b2o50b3o$83b2o37b3o
48bo2bo$83bo37bob3o37bo9bo3bo$84b3o24b2o9bob3o34b2o2bo6b2o13bo$86bo11b
2o11b2o9b4o22b2o11b2ob2o6b3o13bo$99bo23b2o24bo36b3o$96b3o47b3o6bob2o3b
o13b2o$96bo49bo6b3ob2o5bo11bo$152bo24b3o$90bo62b3ob2o20bo$88b3o46b2o
16bobo$62b2o23bo49bobo15bobo4b2o29bobo$61b4o9b2o11b2o11bo38bo16bo6bo
30b2o$60b3obo9b2o24b3o36b2o19b3o31bo$61b3obo37bo56bo$62b3o37b2o$63b2o
52b2o$54b2o61bo$54b2o36bo12bo8b2obo84bo$90b2o13bobo5bo2bo83bobo$89b2o
14b2o7b2o85b2o$88bo11bo$89b5o5b2o$90bo$59b2o$59b2o$86b2o3bo$86bo3bobo$
73b2o12bo3bobo$72bobo13bo3bobob2o$72bo13bob4o2bob2o$71b2o12bobo3bobo$
85bobo2bo2b2ob2o$86bo3b2o2bobo$94bobo10b2o$95bo11b2o!


Improved p34:

x = 260, y = 85, rule = B3/S23
217bo11b2o$216bobo10b2o$208bo3b2o2bobo$207bobo2bo2b2ob2o$153b2o52bobo
3bobo13bo$146b2o5b2o39bo9bo3bob4o2bob2o8b3o$146b2o46b3o5b3o5bo3bobob2o
7bo2bo$182b2o13bo3bo7bo3bobo$182bo13b2o3b2o5bo3bobo9b2obo$148b2o33bo
24b2o3bo9bo3b2ob3o$148b2o32b2o14b3o21bo4b2o2b2o$142b2o54bo2bo21bob2o2b
o2bo$142b2o53bo3bo27bo2bobo$197bobob2o23b6o2bo$122b2o74b2ob2o24b2o5bob
o$121bobo75b3o34bo$115b2o4bo42b2obo11b2o54bo2bo$113bo2bo2b2ob4o35bobo
3bo11b2o16bo38b2obo$113b2obobobobo2bo35bo33b2obo40bo$116bobobobo38bobo
33b3o39b2o$116bobob2o43bobo56b2o$117bo81b2o24bo$153bo68b3o$130b2o21b3o
b2ob2o48b2o10bo$121b2o7bo21bob3obobobo27bo6b2o11bobo$121b2o5bobo8b2o
16bo2bobo25b3o6b2o13bo$128b2o10bo19bob2o23bo24b2o$140bobo16b2o3bo22b2o
$64bo11b2o22bo40b2o13bobo2bobo60b2o$63bobo10b2o22b3o42bo10b2o2b2ob2o
34b2o24bo$55bo3b2o2bobo37bo40b2o54bo13b2o6b3o$54bobo2bo2b2ob2o35b2o40b
o55bobo11b2o6bo19b3o$54bobo3bobo47bo79bo10b2o39bo$41bo9bo3bob4o2bob2o
42bo8b2o26bobo39b3o52bo$5b2o34b3o5b3o5bo3bobob2o27b2o13b3o7bo26b2o39bo
$5b2o22b2o13bo3bo7bo3bobo3b2o26bo21b3o28bo33bo5b2o$29bo13b2o3b2o5bo3bo
bo5b2o22b2obo21bo55b2o8b2o45bo$30bo24b2o3bo5b2o23bo2b3o4b2o46bo23bo7b
2o44bo2bo$29b2o36bo2b2o20b2o3bo3b2o42b2ob2o23bob2o49bo2b2o$68b4o22b4o
48b3o25bo2bo19bob2o26bo$69bo2b2o20bo15b2o30b2o3bo11b2o14b2o20bo3bobo
24bo$2o43bo49b3o12bobo21b2o6b2o15bobo28b2o11bo54b2o$2o43bo52bo13bo21bo
bo24bo28b2o9bobo54b2o$45bo37b2o8b5o14b2o20bo26b2o34bobo$6b4obo14b2o54b
o2bo7bo$5bo4b2o14b2o12b2o41b2obo8bo133b2o$4b2obo3bo27b2obo43bo7b2o103b
o3b2o24bo$6bob3o29bo2bo42b2o110bobo3bo5b2o3b2o13bo$41b2o28b2o124bobo3b
o7bo3bo13b2o22b2o$72bo120b2obobo3bo5b3o5b3o34b2o$69b3o82b2o37b2obo2b4o
bo3bo9bo$57b2o10bo84bo42bobo3bobo$37bo6b2o11bobo92bobo38b2ob2o2bo2bobo
$35b3o6b2o13bo92b2o40bobo2b2o3bo$34bo24b2o68bo52b2o10bobo$34b2o91b3o
52b2o11bo$71b2o14b2o37bo29bo$46b2o24bo14bobo30bo5b2o27bobo$47bo13b2o6b
3o15bo30bobo34bobo$47bobo11b2o6bo49b2o33b2ob3o$37bo10b2o110bo$35b3o75b
o40b2ob3o$34bo76b3o40b2obo$34b2o74bo$19b2o56bo32b2o49b2o$20bo54b2ob2o
61b2o6bo11bo$20bob2o6bobo43bo2bo60bobo5bobo8bobo$21bo2bo6b2o14bob4o24b
2o61bo6bo3bo7b2o$22b2o7bo15b2o4bo60bo24b2o6b3obo$37b2o8bo3bob2o58bobo
30b2o2b2o$37b2o9b3obo55bo3bob2o31bobo$108bo2b2ob2o6b2o$111bo2bo6bo2bo$
76b2o34b2o8b2o$46bo3b2o24bo20b2o38bo$45bobo3bo5b2o3b2o13bo20bo36bobo$
44bobo3bo7bo3bo13b2o17b3o6bob2o17b2o9b2o12bo$40b2obobo3bo5b3o5b3o29bo
6b3ob2o17bo23bobo$40b2obo2b4obo3bo9bo35bo24b3o20bobo$44bobo3bobo49b3ob
2o20bo21bo$40b2ob2o2bo2bobo51bobo28b2o17b2o$41bobo2b2o3bo52bobo4b2o21b
obo17bobo$29b2o10bobo61bo6bo21bo10bo10bo$29b2o11bo66b3o21b2o11bo9b2o$
109bo34b3o!


And a p84 Herschel factory that maybe of use in a p14 or a p21 gun:

x = 119, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
24b2o11bo$24b2o10bobo$36bobo2b2o3bo$35b2ob2o2bo2bobo$27bo11bobo3bobo$
25b2obo6b2obo2b4obo$25b2o8b2obobo3bo$29b2o8bobo3bo$25b2o2b2o9bobo3bo$
25b4o12bo3b2o$25bo4bo29bo39b2o$25b2ob3o27b3o13bo25bo$21bo3bo2bo28bo16b
3o21bobo$21b2o2b2o16bo13b2o18bo20b2o$21bo4bo15b2o32b2o$17b2o23bobo3b2o
$16bo2bo28b4o60b2o$15bob2o28bo4bo59b2o$15bo30b4o2bo10b2o11bobo$14b2o
30b2obob2o28b3o$29b2o15b2o19bo11b2o2bo$29bo18b3o15bo10b4ob2o$30b3o32bo
bo3bo7b3o$32bo10b2o26bo45b2o$42bobo72b2o$42bo$41b2o10b2o53bo$14bo39bo
53bobo$14b2o20bo14b3o9b2o32b2o9b3o$13bobo18b3o14bo4b2o5bo20b2o11b2o11b
o$33bo21bobo3bobo21bo$20b2o11b2o20bo5b2o4bo14b3o$20b2o32b2o9b3o14bo$
30b2o32bo$24bo3bo2bo32b2o10b2o$22b2o3bo3bo44bo$2o20bo4bo46bobo$2o20bo
2bo2b2o44b2o10bo$23bo30bobo29b3o$24bo29b2o33bo$54bo33b2o$38bo55bo8b2o$
36bobo53b2o9bo$5b2o30b2o54b2o5b2obo$5b2o74b2o16bo2bo$80bo2bo16b2o$41b
2o36b2o2bo$19b2o20bo18b2o18b2o2bo$18bobo21b3o16bo19b4o$18bo25bo13b3o$
17b2o39bo$72b2o3bo$72bo3bobo$73bo3bobo$74bo3bobob2o$72bob4o2bob2o$71bo
bo3bobo$71bobo2bo2b2ob2o$72bo3b2o2bobo$80bobo10b2o$81bo11b2o!


(As a gun this family doesn't set any records but as a Herschel factory it looks pretty good)
chris_c
 
Posts: 788
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » April 25th, 2015, 8:21 am

simsim314 wrote here:
simsim314 wrote:Kinda big for a single glider, and yet what I could find with the current search:

That new H-to-G removes p533 from the Hall of Shame with this fixed gun:
(EDIT: The H-to-G can be reduced in size, I'll update when I'm done exploring this)
EDIT2: Updated, see here:

x = 85, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
49b2o3b2o$49b2o2bob3o$53bo4bo$49b4ob2o2bo$49bo2bobobob2o$52bobobobo$
53b2obobo$57bo2$43b2o$44bo7b2o$44bobo5b2o11bo$45b2o18b3o$68bo$67bobo$
67bobo$68bo3$55b2o$55bo$56b3o24b2o$58bo24b2o2$20bo$18b3o$17bo45b2o$7b
2o8b2o43bobo$7b2o53bo$61b2o7b2o$25b2o43b2o$24bobo$25bo52b2obo$78b2ob3o
$28bo55bo$26b2obo48b2ob3o$2b2o18b6obo47bo2b2o$bobo17b2o2b4o47bobo$bo
18bo2b2o33bo16bobob2obo$2o18bo3bo33b3o15bo2bob2o$20bo3bo36bo17bo$39b2o
19b2o16b2o$23b2o14bo15bo19bobo2b2o$20b3obo12bobo15b3o17b2o2bo2bo$6b2o
11b4ob2o11b2o19bo21b2o$7bo10b2o5bo31b2o$7bobo15bo$8b2o14bo2$20b4ob2o$
20b4o3bo$21b4o3bo25b2o$29bo24b2o17b2o$24bo48b2o$23bo$28bo$23b2o5bo43b
2o$30bo43bo$61b2o12b3o$26bo7bo27bo14bo$28bo4bobo23b3o$27bo6bo24bo$20b
2o$20b2o2$31b2o$31bobo19bo$33bo20bo$33b2o17b3o!
Last edited by simeks on April 25th, 2015, 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
simeks
 
Posts: 344
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Location: Sweden

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 25th, 2015, 8:50 am

simeks wrote:That new H-to-G removes p533 from the Hall of Shame with this fixed gun


Nice!

And by copying the old p525 but replacing the p175 gun with the smaller, more modern version, we can knock all of the fixed guns out of the Hall of Shame:

#C Updated p525 with smaller p175 gun
x = 100, y = 73, rule = B3/S23
17b2o3b2o15b2o3b2o$17b2o2bob3o13b2o2bob3o$21bo4bo16bo4bo$17b4ob2o2bo
12b4ob2o2bo$17bo2bobobob2o11bo2bobobob2o$20bobobobo15bobobobo$21b2obob
o16b2obobo$25bo21bo2$11b2o20b2o$12bo7b2o12bo7b2o$12bobo5b2o12bobo5b2o$
13b2o20b2o$21bo$21b2o$20bobo4$23b2o20b2o$23bo21bo$4bo19b3o19b3o16bo$2b
5o14b3o2bo21bo16b3o$bo5bo13bo2bo43bo$bo2b3o12bobo2b2o26bo14bobo$2obo
15b2o29b3o14bobo$o2b4o42bo18bo$b2o3bo3b2o37b2o$3b3o4b2o16b2o$3bo25b2o$
2obo24bo28b2o$2ob2o53bo24b2o$58bob2o21b2o$50b2o4b3o2bo$11b2o37b2o3bo3b
2o10bo$12bo42b4o11b3o$9b3o29b2o15bo4b2o5bobo$9bo30bobo12b3o4bobo$40bo
13bo7bo$39b2o14b5ob2o6bo$59bobo$55b2o2bobo$55b2o3bo17b2obo$4bo73b2ob3o
$2b5o14b2o61bo$bo5bo13bo56b2ob3o$bo2b3o12bobo55bo2b2o$2obo15b2o55bobo$
o2b4o51bo16bobob2obo$b2o3bo3b2o24bo21b3o15bo2bob2o$3b3o4b2o12bo10bo25b
o17bo$3bo20b3o8b3o22b2o16b2o$2obo23bo47bobo2b2o$2ob2o21b2o47b2o2bo2bo$
80b2o2$11b2o31b2o$12bo31bobo34b2o$9b3o32bo36bo$9bo69bobo$36b2o41b2o4b
2o3bo2bo3b2o$29b2o5bobo46b5o4b5o$29b2o7bo46b2o3bo2bo3b2o$38b2o12bobo$
53b2o6bo$25bo27b2o5bo$24bobob2o58b2o4b2o$24bobobobo27bo28bo8bo$23b2obo
bobo2bo23bo2bo25bo2bo4bo2bo$24bo2b2ob4o23bobo27bo8bo$24bo4bo28bo25bo3b
2o4b2o$25b3obo2b2o31b2o18bo$27b2o3b2o31b2o16b3o13bo!


EDIT: simeks reduction of the p533 has also been incorporated.
chris_c
 
Posts: 788
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » April 25th, 2015, 11:09 am

chris_c wrote:And by copying the old p525 but replacing the p175 gun with the smaller, more modern version, we can knock all of the fixed guns out of the Hall of Shame:

Nice one! From p78 and above only two fixed guns with a size above 8000 remains: p445 and p992.

You noticed my reduction of p533 but I'm posting it here for completeness, and adding a some ways folds can be added to it. Each seems to improve something:

p533:

x = 77, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
41b2o3b2o$41b2o2bob3o$45bo4bo$41b4ob2o2bo$41bo2bobobob2o$44bobobobo$
45b2obobo$49bo2$35b2o$36bo7b2o$36bobo5b2o11bo$37b2o18b3o$60bo$59bobo$
59bobo$60bo3$47b2o$47bo$48b3o24b2o$50bo24b2o4$55b2o$54bobo$54bo$53b2o
7b2o$17b2o43b2o$16bobo$17bo52b2obo$70b2ob3o$20bo55bo$18b2obo48b2ob3o$
14b6obo47bo2b2o$13b2o2b4o47bobo$2o10bo2b2o33bo16bobob2obo$2o10bo3bo33b
3o15bo2bob2o$12bo3bo36bo17bo$31b2o19b2o16b2o$15b2o14bo15bo19bobo2b2o$
12b3obo12bobo15b3o17b2o2bo2bo$11b4ob2o11b2o19bo21b2o$2o8b2o5bo31b2o$2o
15bo$16bo2$12b4ob2o$12b4o3bo$13b4o3bo25b2o$21bo24b2o17b2o$16bo48b2o$
15bo$3b2o15bo$4bo10b2o5bo43b2o$b3o18bo43bo$bo51b2o12b3o$18bo7bo27bo14b
o$20bo4bobo23b3o$19bo6bo24bo$12b2o$12b2o2$23b2o$23bobo19bo$25bo20bo$
25b2o17b3o!

p653+8n:

x = 83, y = 77, rule = B3/S23
52b2o5b2o$52b2o5b2o10b2o$71bo$69bobo$69b2o6$25b2o3b2o27bo$23b3obo2b2o
26b2o$22bo4bo24b3o2b2o4b2o11b2o$22bo2b2ob4o19bo5b2o4b3o10b2o$21b2obobo
bo2bo18b2o5b2o4b3o$22bobobobo21bobo3bo6b3o2bobo$22bobob2o17bo4bob3ob3o
2bo3bobo2bo$23bo20bobo3b2o6b3o2bo$44b2o3b3o11bo9bo$36b2o11b3o12bo10bo$
27b2o7bo11bo2bo13bo3bo4bo$9bo17b2o5bobo12b2o15bo$9b3o22b2o34b2o$12bo
66b2o$11b2o66bo$36bo37bo5b3o$36b3o34bobo6bo$2ob2o34bo34bo$2obo34b2o$3b
o20b2o31b2o$3b3o4b2o13bo32bo$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o30b3o$o2b4o15bo32bo$2obo
15b2obo$bo2b3o12bobob2o$bo5bo13bo2bo23b2o$2b5o14b2o18b2o5bobo$4bo36b2o
7bo$50b2o2$37bo$36bobob2o$36bobobobo$35b2obobobo2bo$36bo2b2ob4o36bo$
36bo4bo38bobo$37b3obo2b2o19b2o14b2o$39b2o3b2o10b2o7b2o$57bo$57bobo$52b
2o4b2o$53bo20b2o$53bobo18bo$43bo10b2o16bobo$41b3o28b2o$40bo$40b2o$25b
2o$26bo$26bob2o$27bo2bo$28b2o$43b2o$43b2o2$66b2o$66b2o2b2o$52bo3b2o12b
obo$51bobo3bo14bo$50bobo3bo15b2o$46b2obobo3bo$46b2obo2b4obo$50bobo3bob
o$46b2ob2o2bo2bobo$47bobo2b2o3bo$35b2o10bobo$35b2o11bo!

p749+8n:

x = 95, y = 77, rule = B3/S23
64b2o5b2o$64b2o5b2o10b2o$83bo$81bobo$81b2o6$71bo$70b2o$64b3o2b2o4b2o
11b2o$63bo5b2o4b3o10b2o$62b2o5b2o4b3o$62bobo3bo6b3o2bobo$57bo4bob3ob3o
2bo3bobo2bo$56bobo3b2o6b3o2bo$56b2o3b3o11bo9bo$61b3o12bo10bo$60bo2bo
13bo3bo4bo$61b2o15bo$82b2o$91b2o$18b2o3b2o66bo$18b2o2bob3o59bo5b3o$22b
o4bo57bobo6bo$18b4ob2o2bo58bo$18bo2bobobob2o$21bobobobo41b2o$22b2obobo
42bo$26bo40b3o$67bo$12b2o$13bo7b2o$13bobo5b2o$14b2o7$24b2o$24bo69bo$
25b3o64bobo$4bo22bo49b2o14b2o$2b5o14b2o45b2o7b2o$bo5bo13bo2bo44bo$bo2b
3o12bobob2o44bobo$2obo15b2obo41b2o4b2o$o2b4o15bo42bo20b2o$b2o3bo3b2o
10b3o40bobo18bo$3b3o4b2o13bo29bo10b2o16bobo$3bo20b2o27b3o28b2o$2obo48b
o$2ob2o47b2o$37b2o$38bo$11b2o25bob2o$12bo26bo2bo$9b3o22b2o4b2o$9bo17b
2o5bobo18b2o$27b2o7bo18b2o$36b2o$78b2o$23bo54b2o2b2o$22bobob2o36bo3b2o
12bobo$22bobobobo34bobo3bo14bo$21b2obobobo2bo30bobo3bo15b2o$22bo2b2ob
4o26b2obobo3bo$22bo4bo30b2obo2b4obo$23b3obo2b2o30bobo3bobo$25b2o3b2o
26b2ob2o2bo2bobo$59bobo2b2o3bo$47b2o10bobo$47b2o11bo!

p885+8n:

x = 91, y = 90, rule = B3/S23
25b2o3b2o$23b3obo2b2o$22bo4bo$22bo2b2ob4o$21b2obobobo2bo$22bobobobo$
22bobob2o$23bo17b2o3b2o$41b2o2bob3o$36b2o7bo4bo$27b2o7bo4b4ob2o2bo$9bo
17b2o5bobo4bo2bobobob2o$9b3o22b2o8bobobobo$12bo32b2obobo$11b2o36bo2$
35b2o$2ob2o31bo7b2o$2obo32bobo5b2o$3bo20b2o11b2o$3b3o4b2o13bo$b2o3bo3b
2o10b3o$o2b4o15bo$2obo15b2obo$bo2b3o12bobob2o$bo5bo13bo2bo$2b5o14b2o
24b2o$4bo42bo$48b3o$29bo20bo$27b3o$26bo$26b2o43bo$71b3o$74bo$73bobo$
73bobo$74bo$61bo$16b2o25b2o14b5o$15bobo5b2o19bo13bo5bo$15bo7b2o19bobo
12b3o2bo$14b2o29b2o15bob2o23b2o$59b4o2bo23b2o$28bo25b2o3bo3b2o$24b2obo
bo24b2o4b3o$23bobobobo32bo$20bo2bobobob2o31bob2o3b2o$20b4ob2o2bo31b2ob
2o2bobo$24bo4bo38bo$20b2o2bob3o38b2o7b2o$20b2o3b2o4b2o20b2o21b2o$30bob
o20bo$31bo22b3o27b2obo$56bo27b2ob3o$34bo55bo$32b2obo48b2ob3o$28b6obo
47bo2b2o$27b2o2b4o47bobo$14b2o10bo2b2o33bo16bobob2obo$14b2o10bo3bo33b
3o15bo2bob2o$26bo3bo36bo17bo$45b2o19b2o16b2o$29b2o14bo15bo19bobo2b2o$
26b3obo12bobo15b3o17b2o2bo2bo$25b4ob2o11b2o19bo21b2o$14b2o8b2o5bo31b2o
$14b2o15bo$30bo2$26b4ob2o$26b4o3bo$27b4o3bo25b2o$35bo24b2o17b2o$30bo
48b2o$29bo$17b2o15bo$18bo10b2o5bo43b2o$15b3o18bo43bo$15bo51b2o12b3o$
32bo7bo27bo14bo$34bo4bobo23b3o$33bo6bo24bo$26b2o$26b2o2$37b2o$37bobo
19bo$39bo20bo$39b2o17b3o!

and p957+8n:

x = 95, y = 78, rule = B3/S23
26b2o3b2o$24b3obo2b2o31b2o5b2o$23bo4bo35b2o5b2o10b2o$23bo2b2ob4o50bo$
22b2obobobo2bo48bobo$23bobobobo51b2o$23bobob2o$24bo2$37b2o$28b2o7bo$
10bo17b2o5bobo33bo$10b3o22b2o33b2o$13bo50b3o2b2o4b2o11b2o$12b2o49bo5b
2o4b3o10b2o$62b2o5b2o4b3o$62bobo3bo6b3o2bobo$b2ob2o51bo4bob3ob3o2bo3bo
bo2bo$b2obo51bobo3b2o6b3o2bo$4bo20b2o29b2o3b3o11bo9bo$4b3o4b2o13bo34b
3o12bo10bo$2b2o3bo3b2o10b3o19bo14bo2bo13bo3bo4bo$bo2b4o15bo2b3o14b5o
13b2o15bo$b2obo15b2obobo2bo13bo5bo33b2o$2bo2b3o12bobo2bo2bobo12b3o2bo
42b2o$2bo5bo13bobo4b2o15bob2o41bo$3b5o14b2o19b4o2bo36bo5b3o$5bo32b2o3b
o3b2o36bobo6bo$38b2o4b3o39bo$46bo$46bob2o19b2o$45b2ob2o20bo$67b3o$67bo
$37b2o$37bo$38b3o$40bo8$94bo$92bobo$4bo72b2o14b2o$2b5o14b2o45b2o7b2o$b
o5bo13bo2bo44bo$bo2b3o12bobob2o44bobo$2obo15b2obo41b2o4b2o$o2b4o15bo
42bo20b2o$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o40bobo18bo$3b3o4b2o13bo29bo10b2o16bobo$3bo20b
2o27b3o28b2o$2obo48bo$2ob2o47b2o$37b2o$38bo$11b2o25bob2o$12bo26bo2bo$
9b3o22b2o4b2o$9bo17b2o5bobo18b2o$27b2o7bo18b2o$36b2o$78b2o$23bo54b2o2b
2o$22bobob2o36bo3b2o12bobo$22bobobobo34bobo3bo14bo$21b2obobobo2bo30bob
o3bo15b2o$22bo2b2ob4o26b2obobo3bo$22bo4bo30b2obo2b4obo$23b3obo2b2o30bo
bo3bobo$25b2o3b2o26b2ob2o2bo2bobo$59bobo2b2o3bo$47b2o10bobo$47b2o11bo!
simeks
 
Posts: 344
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 25th, 2015, 8:57 pm

simeks wrote:You noticed my reduction of p533 but I'm posting it here for completeness, and adding a some ways folds can be added to it. Each seems to improve something: p533, p653+8n, p749+8n, p885+8n and p957+8n.


Thanks. I added all those. The x-coordinate of the p957 grows fairly unusually: it increases by 1 for each of the first 3 extensions, then it is constant for the next 4 extensions, then it grows by 1 every other extension. To deal with this I made it into two gun families: a p957 and a p981 = p957 + 3*8.

In other news I found a new p424. I don't know how it took us so long to find it:

x = 86, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
24b2o2$22bo3bo$22bo4bo$24bobobo8bo$25bobobo5b3o$26bo4bo2bo$27bo3bo2b2o
2$28b2o2bo$31bobo$32b2o2b2o$36b2o4$78b2o$64b2o12b2o$46bo18bo$46b3o16bo
bo$49bo16b2o$48b2o$9bo$9b3o$12bo$11b2o71b2o$84b2o$19bo$3b2o12b2o21b2o$
3bo14b2o21bo$2obo37bobo$o2b3o4b2o30b2o$b2o3bo3b2o72bo$3b4o76bobo$3bo
15b2o15bo30b2o15bo$4b3o12bobo2b2o10b3o24bo3b2o$7bo13bo2bo14bo22bobo$2b
5o14b3o2bo11b2o21bobo$2bo21b3o34bo12b2o$4bo18bo36b2o11bobo$3b2o18b2o
48bo$8b2o62b2o11bo$9bo73bobo$9bob2o71b2o$10bo2bo$11b2o$26b2o$26b2o2$
46b2o3bo$47bo4b2o$35bo3b2o3b3o3b2o$34bobo3bo3bo7bo$33bobo3bo$29b2obobo
3bo$29b2obo2b4obo$33bobo3bobo$29b2ob2o2bo2bobo$30bobo2b2o3bo$18b2o10bo
bo$18b2o11bo!


With the following variant:

x = 90, y = 60, rule = B3/S23
24b2o$24b2obo$28bo8bo$25bo9b3o$26bob2o4bo$28b2o4b2o2$32bo$31bobo$32b2o
2b2o$36b2o6$65b2o$47bo18bo$47b3o16bobo$50bo16b2o$9bo39b2o$9b3o$12bo$
11b2o75b2o$88b2o2$3b2o$3bo37b2o$2obo11bobo24bo$o2b3o4b2o3b2o25bobo$b2o
3bo3b2o4bo26b2o$3b4o$3bo15b2o$4b3o12bobo15bo$7bo13bo15b3o$2b5o14b2o17b
o$2bo24bo11b2o$4bo20b3o$3b2o19bo53b2o$24b2o52b2o$9b2o$10bo$10bob2o$11b
o2bo$12b2o$27b2o$27b2o2$47b2o$48bo$36bo3b2o3b3o$35bobo3bo3bo$34bobo3bo
$30b2obobo3bo$30b2obo2b4obo$34bobo3bobo$30b2ob2o2bo2bobo$31bobo2b2o3bo
$19b2o10bobo$19b2o11bo!


I think it becomes true to say:

If N > 548 then there exists a gun of period N with minimum repeating population less than or equal to 191 cells.


Also the period doubled version of the p424 hits the p992 that you mentioned:

x = 96, y = 70, rule = B3/S23
25bo$24b2o$23bob2o$22b3o2bo$24bobobo8bo$25bobobo5b3o$26bo2b3o2bo$27b2o
bo3b2o$28b2o$28bo3bo$31bobo$32b2o2b2o$36b2o5$28bo$28bobo$28b2o3$9bo73b
o$9b3o71b3o$12bo73bo$11b2o72b2o$73b2o$55bo18bo$3b2o50b3o16bobo$3bo54bo
16b2o$2obo53b2o$o2b3o4b2o$b2o3bo3b2o$3b4o$3bo15b2o$4b3o12bobo$7bo13bo$
2b5o14b2o26b2o35b2o$2bo47bo35b2o$4bo45bobo$3b2o46b2o3$45bo30b2o$45b3o
24bo3b2o$48bo22bobo$35bo11b2o21bobo$33b3o34bo13b2o$32bo36b2o14bo$32b2o
48b3o10bo$17b2o63bo10bobo$18bo75b2o$18bob2o$19bo2bo$20b2o$35b2o$35b2o
2$55b2o4bo$56bo2bobo$44bo3b2o3b3o4bobo$43bobo3bo3bo6bo$42bobo3bo$38b2o
bobo3bo$38b2obo2b4obo$42bobo3bobo$38b2ob2o2bo2bobo$39bobo2b2o3bo$27b2o
10bobo$27b2o11bo!


Finally, it also gives options for making... err... p160 edge shooters:

x = 71, y = 101, rule = B3/S23
35bo2$33bob3o$35b2obo$35bob2o$36b3obo2$38bo3$32bo$31bobo$31bobo16bo$
25b2o5bo17bobo$24b2ob2o10b2o9b3o$23bo4bo10b2o11bo$22b3o3bo$21bo4b2o$
21bobo$22b2o$51b2o$52bo$49b3o$49bo$38b2o$25b2o11b2o$25b2o$59b2o$54b2o
3b2o$24bo29b2o$23bobo$24bo$21b3o29b2o12b2o$21bo32bo5b2o5bo$51b3o6b2o6b
3o$51bo18bo2$24b3o$23bo3bo$25bob2o$10bo17bob2o$8bobo14b2ob3obo$9bobo
10bo4b3ob2o$9bo13b3o$24b3o12b2o$25b2o12bobo$10b2o29bo$9bobo29b2o$9bo$
8b2o$29b2o$29bo$3b2o25b3o$2bo2bo2b2o22bo$3b2o2bobo13b2o$5b2o16bobo$5bo
19bo$2b2obo2bo16b2o$2bob2obobo$6bobo$3b2o2bo$b3ob2o$o$b3ob2o48b2o5b2o$
3bob2o48b2o5bo$60bobo$60b2o$22b2o32b2o$22bo33bobo$20bobo27bobo4bo2b2o$
20b2o28b2o$11b2ob2o35bo6bo3bo$11b2ob2o42bo4bo$13bo46bobobo$2o59bobobo$
2o60bo4bo$63bo3bo2$30bo33b2o$30b3o$16bo16bo$15bobo14b2o$15bobo$16bo$
17b3o$19bo3$42b2o$35b2o5bobo$35b2o7bo$44b2o2$31bo$30bobob2o$30bobobobo
$27b2obobobobo2bo$27bo2bo2b2ob4o$29b2o4bo$35bobo$36b2o!


EDIT:

*******************************
Hall of Shame (p78 or greater)
*******************************
543 (8680, 'p00958_16_p00543')       (7 mod 8)
517 (8662, 'p00986_6_p00517')        (5 mod 8)
961 (8652, 'p00921_5')               (1 mod 8)
999 (8648, 'p00879_15')              (7 mod 8)
949 (8614, 'p00901_6')               (5 mod 8)
953 (8568, 'p00921_4')               (1 mod 8)
941 (8555, 'p00901_5')               (5 mod 8)
991 (8554, 'p00879_14')              (7 mod 8)
509 (8540, 'p00986_4_p00509')        (5 mod 8)
933 (8496, 'p00901_4')               (5 mod 8)
945 (8484, 'p00921_3')               (1 mod 8)
937 (8484, 'p00921_2')               (1 mod 8)
817 (8448, 'p00673_18')              (1 mod 8)
925 (8437, 'p00901_3')               (5 mod 8)
501 (8418, 'p00986_2_p00501')        (5 mod 8)
535 (8418, 'p00958_14_p00535')       (7 mod 8)
877 (8400, 'p00853_3')               (5 mod 8)
917 (8378, 'p00901_2')               (5 mod 8)
993 (8374, 'p00969_3')               (1 mod 8)
893 (8372, 'p00885_1')               (5 mod 8)
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby dvgrn » April 25th, 2015, 10:07 pm

chris_c wrote:Finally, it also gives options for making... err... p160 edge shooters...

Edge shooters with this engine go down to p144, and they don't have to be that big... unless you really need the 26hd clearance model instead of the zero-clearance model. But at p160 I don't think the Fx119 inserter really counts as 26hd clearance, anyway -- too many sparks in the way.

x = 90, y = 62, rule = B3/S23
57bo11b2o$56bobo10b2o$48bo3b2o2bobo$47bobo2bo2b2ob2o$47bobo3bobo$48bob
4o2bob2o$50bo3bobob2o$49bo3bobo$37bo6bo3bo3bobo$35bobo4b3o3b2o3bo$36bo
bo2bo$36bo4b2o$51b2obo$51b4o6b2o$50bo3bo6b2o$51b3o22b2o$51b3o21bo2bo$
53bo22b2obo$79bo$79b2o$10b2o52b2o$10b2o15b2o36bo19b2o$27bo34b3o20bo$
25bobo21b2o11bo24bo$24bobo22bo17b2o14b5o$20b2o3bo24b3o15bo13bo$20b2o
30bo15bobo12b3o$69b2o15bo$74b2o7b4o$36bo8b2o26bobo2b2o3bo3b2o$35b4o6bo
bo27bo2b2o4b3o2bo$34b2ob4o6bo38bob2o$35bobo9b2o37bo$36b2o2bo44b2o$37b
3o$2o$2o75b2o$77bo$78b3o$39b2o39bo$21b2o16bo$21bobo16b3o$23bo18bo$23b
2o6$52b2o$52b2o2b2o$56bobo$57bo3bo$60b2o$54b2o3bob2o$55bo2b3o2bo$52b3o
5bobobo$52bo8bobobo$62bo2b3o$19bo43b2obo$20bo43b2o$18b3o43bo!
#C [[ AUTOSTART STEP 8 ZOOM 5 ]]

EDIT: So what's the smallest p8N loop-with-surplus-glider found so far, that doesn't need any p4 or p8 oscillators? Eight Herschels in such a loop, if it ended up less than 191 cells, would be a very simple upper bound for gun population...
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 26th, 2015, 5:57 am

dvgrn wrote:Edge shooters with this engine go down to p144, and they don't have to be that big... unless you really need the 26hd clearance model instead of the zero-clearance model.


Yeah, I saw that but I assumed it wouldn't be such a big improvement over the old model. Turns out I was wrong. The syringe based gun can pack at 41fd for shooting gliders on the same lane compared to 52fd for the old gun:

x = 152, y = 298, rule = B3/S23
61bo11b2o$60bobo10b2o$52bo3b2o2bobo$51bobo2bo2b2ob2o$51bobo3bobo$52bob
4o2bob2o$54bo3bobob2o$53bo3bobo$41bo6bo3bo3bobo$39bobo4b3o3b2o3bo$40bo
bo2bo$40bo4b2o$56b3o$58bo6b2o$46bo10bo7b2o$46bo33b2o$44bo34bo2bo$43b3o
3bo30b2obo$42bo3bob2o33bo$43b5o35b2o$14b2o28b3o3b2o16b2o5b3o$14b2o15b
2o18bo17bo5bo13b2o$31bo18bo15b3o7bo12bo$29bobo21b2o11bo24bo$28bobo22bo
17b2o14b5o$24b2o3bo24b3o15bo13bo$24b2o30bo15bobo12b3o$73b2o15bo$87b4o$
49b2o31b2o3bo3b2o$22b2o2b2o21bobo30b2o4b3o2bo$21b3o2b2o23bo38bob2o$22b
2o2b3o22b2o37bo$23bo2b2o61b2o2$4b2o$4b2o75b2o$81bo$51bobo28b3o$43b2o7b
2o30bo$25b2o16bo8bo$25bobo16b3o55bo11b2o$27bo18bo54bobo10b2o$27b2o64bo
3b2o2bobo$92bobo2bo2b2ob2o$92bobo3bobo$93bob4o2bob2o$95bo3bobob2o$94bo
3bobo$56b2o24bo6bo3bo3bobo$56b2o2b2o18bobo4b3o3b2o3bo$60bobo18bobo2bo$
61bo19bo4b2o$65bo33b2o$58b2o4b3o28b2ob3o5b2o$59bo3b3obo26b3ob2o6b2o$
56b3o5bo3bo26b2ob3o20b2o$56bo8bo3bo28b2o20bo2bo$66bob3o50b2obo$67b3o
54bo$68bo55b2o$55b2o52b2o$55b2o15b2o36bo19b2o$72bo34b3o20bo$70bobo21b
2o11bo24bo$69bobo22bo17b2o14b5o$65b2o3bo24b3o15bo13bo$65b2o30bo15bobo
12b3o$114b2o15bo$33bo85b3o6b4o$31bobo46bo9b2o29b4o3bo3b2o$32b2o45bo10b
obo27bob3o4b3o2bo$78b2o12bo38bob2o$79b2o3b2o6b2o37bo$80b3ob2o44b2o$82b
obo$45b2o36b2o$45b2o75b2o$122bo$123b3o$84b2o39bo$66b2o16bo$66bobo16b3o
$68bo18bo$68b2o6$97b2o$97b2o2b2o$101bobo$102bo$106bo$99b2o$100bo3bob3o
$97b3o6b2obo$97bo8bob2o$107b3obo2$109bo74$60b2o3b2o$60b2o2bob3o$64bo4b
o$60b4ob2o2bo$60bo2bobobob2o$63bobobobo$64b2obobo$68bo2$54b2o$55bo7b2o
$55bobo5b2o$56b2o3$18b2o3b2o$18b2o2bob3o$22bo4bo$18b4ob2o2bo$18bo2bobo
bob2o37b2o22bo$21bobobobo38bo21b3o$22b2obobo39b3o17bo$26bo42bo17b2o2$
12b2o39bo$13bo7b2o30b2o40b2ob2o$13bobo4bo2bo28bobo41bob2o$14b2o80bo$
23bo64b2o4b3o$23b2o63b2o3bo3b2o$22bo70b4o2bo$2o77b2o15bob2o$2obo74bobo
12b3o2bo$4bo73bo13bo5bo$bo22b2o51b2o14b5o$2bob2o18bo58bobo9bo$4b2o19b
3o55b2o$22bo4bo56bo$8bo11b3o24bo$7bobo9bo27b3o$8b2o9b2o29bo$4b2o43b2o$
3bobo53b2o$3bo5b2o48bo$2b2o5b2o46bobo$57b2o$50bo$45b2o2b3o$39b2o3bo2bo
11bo$39b2o3bo2b4o8b3o$44bo2b3o2bo9bo$48b2ob2o8b2o$50b2o60b2o3b2o$7b2o
103b2o2bob3o$7b2o107bo4bo$112b4ob2o2bo$112bo2bobobob2o$48b2o3b2o60bobo
bobo$28b2o19bo3bo17b2o43b2obobo$28bobo15b3o5b3o7b2o5bobo46bo$30bo15bo
9bo7b2o7bo$30b2o41b2o31b2o$107bo7b2o$60bo46bobo5b2o$59bobob2o43b2o$59b
obobobo$56b2obobobobo2bo46bo$56bo2bo2b2ob4o3b2o41b2o$58b2o4bo7bobo5b2o
32bobo$64bobo7bo4bobo$65b2o3b4ob2o2bo$70bo2bobobob2o37b2o22bo$73bobobo
bo38bo21b3o$74b2obobo39b3o17bo$78bo42bo17b2o2$64b2o$65bo7b2o72b2ob2o$
65bobo5b2o73bob2o$66b2o80bo$29bo110b2o4b3o$27bobo110b2o3bo3b2o$28b2o
115b4o2bo$52b2o77b2o15bob2o$52b2obo27bo46bobo12b3o2bo$56bo27b2o44bo13b
o5bo$53bo22b2o5b2o44b2o14b5o$54bob2o18bo70bo$56b2o19b3o$74bo4bo$60bo
11b3o24bo$59bobo9bo27b3o$60b2o9b2o29bo$56b2o43b2o$55bobo53b2o$55bo5b2o
48bo$54b2o5b2o46bobo$103b2o4b2o14bobo$102bo2bo19b2o$103b2o21bo$78b3o
10b2o18bo$78b2ob2o8b2o18b3o$78b2ob2o31bo$80b2o31b2o$103bo$59b2o41bobo$
59b2o41bobo$103bo2$100b2o3b2o$80b2o19bo3bo17b2o$80bobo15b3o5b3o7b2o5bo
bo$82bo15bo9bo7b2o7bo$82b2o41b2o2$112bo$111bobob2o$111bobobobo$108b2ob
obobobo2bo$108bo2bo2b2ob4o$69bo40b2o4bo$67bobo46bobo$68b2o47b2o!


dvgrn wrote:So what's the smallest p8N loop-with-surplus-glider found so far, that doesn't need any p4 or p8 oscillators? Eight Herschels in such a loop, if it ended up less than 191 cells, would be a very simple upper bound for gun population...


I think it's the p592. For example, this p295 gun shows that it is possible to make any gun of period >= 295 with population <= 267, but I think you need to go for a case-by-case proof to get below that.

x = 313, y = 281, rule = B3/S23
231b2o11bo$231b2o10bobo$243bobo2b2o3bo$242b2ob2o2bo2bobo$246bobo3bobo$
242b2obo2b4obo$242b2obobo3bo$246bobo3bo$247bobo3bo$248bo3b2o47b2o$267b
o33b2o$265b3o13bo$234b3o27bo16b3o$234bo29b2o18bo$234b3o46b2o$224b2o$
223bo2bo$222bob2o$222bo$221b2o$236b2o$236bo36b2o$237b3o33b2o$239bo10b
2o$249bobo59b2o$249bo61b2o$248b2o10b2o$261bo$258b3o9b2o$258bo11bo19b2o
$271bo17bobo$270b2o17bo$288b2o13$296bo$295bo$295b3o38$163b2o$162bobo$
164bo32$223bo$221b2o$222b2o38$89b2o$90b2o$89bo32$148bo$148bobo$148b2o
38$15b3o$17bo$16bo13$23b2o$23bo17b2o$21bobo17bo$21b2o19bo11bo$41b2o9b
3o$51bo$51b2o10b2o$2o61bo$2o59bobo$61b2o10bo$38b2o33b3o$38b2o36bo$75b
2o$90b2o$90bo$87b2obo$86bo2bo$87b2o$76b3o$47b2o29bo$48bo27b3o$45b3o$
10b2o33bo$10b2o47b2o3bo$59bo3bobo$60bo3bobo$61bo3bobob2o$59bob4o2bob2o
$58bobo3bobo$58bobo2bo2b2ob2o$59bo3b2o2bobo$67bobo10b2o$68bo11b2o!
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » April 27th, 2015, 2:55 pm

chris_c wrote:In other news I found a new p424. I don't know how it took us so long to find it:

Well, I think there are still a lot of almost obvious guns to add... Like this one, a p553+8n:

x = 80, y = 72, rule = B3/S23
26b2o3b2o$24b3obo2b2o$23bo4bo$23bo2b2ob4o$22b2obobobo2bo$23bobobobo18b
2o3b2o$23bobob2o19b2o2bob3o$24bo27bo4bo$19bo28b4ob2o2bo$17b3o17b2o9bo
2bobobob2o$16bo11b2o7bo13bobobobo$15bobo10b2o5bobo14b2obobo$15bobo17b
2o19bo$16bo$42b2o$43bo7b2o$43bobo5b2o17bo$44b2o22b3o$2o65bo$2o23b2o40b
2o$26bo$23b3o$23bo51b2ob2o$20b2obo52bob2o$20bobob2o28b2o20bo$22bo2bo
28bo13b2o4b3o$13b2o7b2o31b3o10b2o3bo3b2o$13b2o42bo15b4o2bo$57bob2o15bo
b2o$3bob2o48b2obobo12b3o2bo$b3ob2o47bo3bo13bo5bo$o38b3o11bo2b3o14b5o$b
3ob2o34bo11b3o19bo$3b2o2bo32bo15bo$6bobo46b2o$2bob2obobo16bo$2b2obo2bo
15b3o$5bo17bo$5b2o16b2o$3b2o2bobo$2bo2bo2b2o$3b2o60b2o$58b2o5bobo$58b
2o7bo$67b2o2$54bo$53bobob2o$53bobobobo$10b2o19b2o19b2obobobo2bo$10b2o
19b2o20bo2b2ob4o$53bo4bo$54b3obo2b2o$9b2o45b2o3b2o$10bo$7b3o$7bo21b2o$
28bobo$28bo$27b2o$26bo2b2o$15b2o10b2o2bo$15b2o13bo2bo$27b2obob2o$27bo
2bo$29b2o3$18b2o$19bo8bo$16b3o10bo$16bo10b3o!

By the way, I thought it would be interesting to follow how the average size of guns is the p78 - p999 range improves over time. Would that be easy to add to your script?

Also, did you notice how a recent discovery of a H->G with a NW glider on lane 17 makes nice guns with L112? :wink:
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » April 27th, 2015, 7:34 pm

simeks wrote:Well, I think there are still a lot of almost obvious guns to add... Like this one, a p553+8n:


Thanks, I added that one.

simeks wrote:By the way, I thought it would be interesting to follow how the average size of guns is the p78 - p999 range improves over time. Would that be easy to add to your script?


Sure, I will get that done before long.

simeks wrote:Also, did you notice how a recent discovery of a H->G with a NW glider on lane 17 makes nice guns with L112? :wink:


Ha ha, thanks for the hint! I guess this p441 is the kind of thing you are referring to. Feel free to add more snarks if that will set any more records.

x = 69, y = 59, rule = B3/S23
38b2o$38bobo$40bo4b2o$36b4ob2o2bo2bo$36bo2bobobobob2o$39bobobobo$40b2o
bobo$44bo$49bo$30b2o17b3o$31bo7b2o11bo$31bobo5b2o10bobo$32b2o17bobo$
52bo5$67b2o$42b2o23b2o$42bo$43b3o$45bo$45bob2o$43b2obobo$43bo2bo$45b2o
7b2o$54b2o2$62b2obo$62b2ob3o$68bo$7b2o53b2ob3o$7b2o52bo2b2o$60bobo$42b
o16bobob2obo$o7b2o32b3o15bo2bob2o$3o4bo37bo17bo$3bo2bo16b2o19b2o16b2o$
2b2o3b2o14bo16b2o17bobo2b2o$13bo7bobo16bo18b2o2bo2bo$12bobo6b2o19bo21b
2o$11b2o28b2o$6b2o4b2o$6b2o$b2o$b2o6b2o$9b2o$38b2o$38b2o17b2o$57b2o$8b
2o$8b2o$12b2o44b2o$12bo45bo$13b3o29b2o12b3o$15bo14bo15bo14bo$31bo11b3o
$29b3o11bo!


EDIT: Added the p441 and simsim's tiny p120. The average area of guns in the range p78-999 is 5811. The average area over the same range in Jason Summers' collection was 9161 --- a reduction of over 1/3. The largest gun was p801 at 16864, now it is p543 at 8680.

Finally, to answer Sokwe's question from another thread, here is the list of guns with area under 1000 cells. The p120 gun is indeed 2nd smallest:

Period   Area
=============
    30    324
   120    726
    46    784
   104    861
    94    950
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby dvgrn » May 1st, 2015, 1:19 pm

Here's an unexpected new adjustable p714+8N gun, thanks to a discovery by simsim314 this morning. Sets at least two records, probably more. Compression is 130 ticks for this orientation of the new transceiver:

Code: Select all
x = 95, y = 63, rule = B3/S23
28b2o$28b2o$bo$b3o$4bo21b2o$3b2o21b2o$13b2o65bo$14bo64bobo$14bobo62bob
o$15b2o46bo13b3ob2o$63b3o10bo$6bo59bo10b3ob2o9b2o$5bobo57b2o12bob2o9bo
$5bo2bo81bobo$6b2o82b2o$2b2o7b2o$bobo9bo$bo10bo$2o10bo2bo8b2o$13bobo8b
2o29b2o$55b2o$91b2o$91b2o$44bo$43bobo$13b2o28b2o$14b2o36b2o$13bo38bo
19b2o$53bo17bobo$2b2o48b2o17bo$2b2o13b2o51b2o$17b2o57b2o$23b2o51b2o13b
2o$23bo17b2o48b2o$21bobo17bo$21b2o19bo$41b2o$50b2o$49bobo$50bo$2b2o$2b
o$6b3o29b2o$9b2o27b2o29b2o$6b2ob2o58b2o22b2o$8bo73b2o9bo$81bo2bo6bobo$
82b2o7b2o$3b2o82b2o$2bobo81bo2bo$2bo9b2obo71bobo$b2o9b2ob3o70bo$18bo$
12b2ob3o60b2o$13bobo62bobo$13bobo64bo$14bo65b2o$67b2o21b2o$67b2o21bo$
91b3o$40bo52bo$41bo23b2o$39b3o23b2o!
#C [[ AUTOSTART STEP 4 ]]
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » May 1st, 2015, 6:46 pm

dvgrn wrote:Here's an unexpected new adjustable p714+8N gun, thanks to a discovery by simsim314 this morning.


Cool. It sets 13 records and together with the p561 below the average area has reduced been from 5811 to 5796.

x = 73, y = 69, rule = B3/S23
50b2o$51bo7b2o$51bobo5b2o$52b2o2$28b2o$27bobo22bo4b2o$21b2o4bo18b2o3bo
bo3b2o$19bo2bo2b2ob4o14b2o2bo2bo11b2o$19b2obobobobo2bo18bo9b2o3b2o$22b
obobobo31b2o$22bobob2o28bo$23bo31b3o9b2o$54bo2bo9bobo$36b2o17bo13bo$
27b2o7bo32b2o$9bo17b2o5bobo$9b3o22b2o$12bo$11b2o$36bo$36b3o15b2o$3b2o
34bo15bo$3bo34b2o12b3o$2obo20b2o26bo$o2b3o4b2o13bo$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o$3b
4o15bo$3bo15b2obo$4b3o12bobob2o47bo$7bo13bo2bo23b2o20bobo$2b5o14b2o18b
2o5bobo20b2o$2bo38b2o7bo$4bo45b2o$3b2o$37bo$36bobob2o$36bobobobo$33b2o
bobobobo2bo16b2o$33bo2bo2b2ob4o16b2o$35b2o4bo11b2o$41bobo9bo2bo$42b2o
5b2o4b2o$50bo20b2o$50bobo18bo$40bo10b2o16bobo$38b3o28b2o$37bo$37b2o$
22b2o$23bo$23bob2o$24bo2bo$25b2o$40b2o$40b2o2$63b2o$63b2o2b2o$49bo3b2o
12bobo$48bobo3bo14bo$47bobo3bo15b2o$43b2obobo3bo$43b2obo2b4obo$47bobo
3bobo$43b2ob2o2bo2bobo$44bobo2b2o3bo$32b2o10bobo$32b2o11bo!


EDIT: Thanks dvgrn for fixing the typo. After trawling the New Herschel Conduits thread I spotted a H->G by Sokwe that gives new p613 and p701. Average area now 5785.

x = 222, y = 74, rule = B3/S23
28b2o$27bobo26b2o137b2o$21b2o4bo27bo2bo135bo2bo$19bo2bo2b2ob4o24b2o3bo
133b2o3bo$19b2obobobobo2bo29b3o136b3o$22bobobobo35bo138bo$22bobob2o18b
o16b2o120bo16b2o$23bo21bobo136bobo$46bo138bo$36b2o28bo138bo$27b2o7bo
29bobo9b2o125bobo9b2o$9bo17b2o5bobo28bo2bo10bo124bo2bo10bo$9b3o22b2o
25b2o2b3o11bob2o117b2o2b3o11bob2o$12bo47b6o12b2o2bo116b6o12b2o2bo$11b
2o46bo4b3o2bo7bo2bo66b2o49bo4b3o2bo7bo2bo$36bo23b2ob2obo7bo3b2o67bobo
49b2ob2obo7bo3b2o$36b3o22b3o4b2o4bo74bo4b2o44b3o4b2o4bo$3b2o34bo34bo3b
2o65b4ob2o2bo2bo55bo3b2o$3bo34b2o39bo65bo2bobobobob2o60bo$2obo20b2o53b
obo66bobobobo63bobo$o2b3o4b2o13bo54b2o67b2obobo64b2o$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o
128bo$3b4o15bo$3bo15b2obo116b2o$4b3o12bobob2o115bo7b2o$7bo13bo2bo23b2o
90bobo5b2o$2b5o14b2o18b2o5bobo13b2o75b2o60b2o$2bo38b2o7bo14bo138bo$4bo
45b2o10b3o136b3o$3b2o57bo138bo$37bo$36bobob2o$36bobobobo$33b2obobobobo
2bo85b2o18b2o$33bo2bo2b2ob4o36bo49bo18bo69bo$35b2o4bo38bobo47bo21b3o
64bobo$41bobo37b2o47b5o14b3o2bo65b2o$42b2o91bo13bo3bo$132b3o12bobob2o$
131bo15b2obo$131b4o15bo$129b2o3bo3b2o10b3o$128bo2b3o4b2o13bo$72b2o54b
2obo20b2o57b2o$72b2o57bo79b2o$63b2o66b2o69b2o$63bo2bo135bo2bo$59b2o4b
2o131b2o4b2o$60bo20b2o56b2o58bo20b2o$60bobo18bo58bo58bobo18bo$50bo10b
2o16bobo55b3o22b2o25bo10b2o16bobo$48b3o28b2o56bo17b2o5bobo22b3o28b2o$
47bo107b2o7bo21bo$47b2o115b2o20b2o$32b2o137b2o$33bo117bo20bo$33bob2o
113bobob2o16bob2o$34bo2bo112bobobobo16bo2bo$35b2o110b2obobobobo2bo14b
2o$50b2o95bo2bo2b2ob4o29b2o$50b2o97b2o4bo33b2o$155bobo$73b2o81b2o54b2o
$73b2o2b2o133b2o2b2o$59bo3b2o12bobo118bo3b2o12bobo$58bobo3bo14bo117bob
o3bo14bo$57bobo3bo15b2o115bobo3bo15b2o$53b2obobo3bo129b2obobo3bo$53b2o
bo2b4obo127b2obo2b4obo$57bobo3bobo130bobo3bobo$53b2ob2o2bo2bobo126b2ob
2o2bo2bobo$54bobo2b2o3bo128bobo2b2o3bo$42b2o10bobo124b2o10bobo$42b2o
11bo125b2o11bo!


EDIT2: I found a nice p436 using the lovely coincidence that HtoG01 fires on the same lane as Fx77 followed by HtoG00. Together with its period multiplied variants it sets records at 69 different periods.

x = 65, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
41bo11b2o$40bobo10b2o$32bo3b2o2bobo$31bobo2bo2b2ob2o$17b2o12bobo3bobo$
18bo13bob4o2bob2o$18bobo13bo3bobob2o$19b2o12bo3bobo$32bo3bobo$32b2o3bo
$5b2o$5b2o2$45b2o2b2o$45b2o2bobo$49bo10b2o$59bo2bo$2o58b2obo$2o61bo$
63b2o$48b2o$49bo5bo$20b2o24b3o5bobo$20b2o11b2o11bo7bo2bo$33bo22bo$34b
3o$36bo23b2o$40b2o17bo2bo$41bo17bobo$41bobo16bo$31bo10b2o12b3o$29b3o
24b2o$28bo$28b2o$13b2o48b2o$14bo48b2o$14bob2o$15bo2bo$16b2o$31b2o$31b
2o4$40bo3b2o$39bobo3bo$38bobo3bo$34b2obobo3bo$34b2obo2b4obo5b2o$38bobo
3bobo5bo$34b2ob2o2bo2bobo2b3o$35bobo2b2o3bo3bo13bo$23b2o10bobo26bo$23b
2o11bo25b3o!
Last edited by dvgrn on May 1st, 2015, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed a typo in the statistics, 5976 -> 5796
chris_c
 
Posts: 788
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » May 3rd, 2015, 3:58 pm

chris_c wrote:I guess this p441 is the kind of thing you are referring to. Feel free to add more snarks if that will set any more records.

I noticed you also added a p561 from that subtle hint...
Here's a related p777+8n. The size grows from 6808 with increasing n, then suddenly drops back to 6887 for n = 5 as the lower left Snark "falls off the edge".

x = 92, y = 74, rule = Life
44b2o3b2o$44b2o2bob3o$25b2o3b2o16bo4bo$23b3obo2b2o12b4ob2o2bo$22bo4bo
16bo2bobobob2o$22bo2b2ob4o15bobobobo$21b2obobobo2bo16b2obobo$22bobobob
o23bo$22bobob2o10bo$23bo13bobo$37bobo7b2o$36b2obobo5b2o$27b2o7bo3b2o$
9bo17b2o5bobo$9b3o22b2o$12bo$11b2o3$2ob2o45b2o$2obo46bo$3bo20b2o25b3o$
3b3o4b2o13bo27bo$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o47bo$o2b4o15bo49b3o$2obo15b2obo52bo$bo
2b3o12bobob2o49bobo$bo5bo13bo3bo48bobo$2b5o14b3o2bo48bo$4bo19b3o$23bo$
23b2o2$90b2o$90b2o4$13b2o44bo10b2o$12bobo5b2o19b2o14b5o7bobo$12bo7b2o
20bo13bo5bo6bo$11b2o29bobo12b3o2bo5b2o7b2o$43b2o15bob2o13b2o$25bo31b4o
2bo$21b2obobo25b2o3bo3b2o22b2obo$20bobobobo25b2o4b3o24b2ob3o$17bo2bobo
bob2o32bo30bo$17b4ob2o2bo3b2o28bob2o21b2ob3o$21bo4bo3b2o27b2ob2o20bo2b
2o$19b2o2b3o57bobo$18bo2b2o42bo16bobob2obo$18b2o3bo7b2o18b2o12b3o15bo
2bob2o$23b3o4bo20bo16bo17bo$26bo2bo16b2o4b3o12b2o16b2o$25b2o3b2o14bo7b
o8b2o17bobo2b2o$36bo7bobo16bo18b2o2bo2bo$35bobo6b2o19bo21b2o$34b2o28b
2o$29b2o4b2o$29b2o$24b2o$24b2o6b2o$32b2o$61b2o$61b2o17b2o$80b2o$31b2o$
31b2o$35b2o44b2o$35bo45bo$36b3o29b2o12b3o$38bo14bo15bo14bo$54bo11b3o$
52b3o11bo!

chris_c wrote:The average area of guns in the range p78-999 is 5811.

Thanks for adding this to the statistics!

chris_c wrote:I found a nice p436 using the lovely coincidence that HtoG01 fires on the same lane as Fx77 followed by HtoG00. Together with its period multiplied variants it sets records at 69 different periods.

That's an amazing finding! Inspired by this I modified my previous p827 to a p905+8n that breaks a few records:

x = 93, y = 82, rule = Life
29b2o11bo$29b2o10bobo$41bobo2b2o3bo$40b2ob2o2bo2bobo$44bobo3bobo12b2o$
40b2obo2b4obo13bo$40b2obobo3bo13bobo$44bobo3bo12b2o$45bobo3bo$46bo3b2o
33b2o$71b2o12b2o$72bo$72bobo$37b2o34b2o$37b2o$22b2o$21bo2bo$20bob2o$
20bo70b2o$19b2o70b2o$34b2o$34bo$35b3o24b2o$30b2o5b3o9b2o11b2o$30bobo7b
o9bo$32bo4b3o7b3o41bo$28b4ob2o2bo9bo42bobo$28bo2bobobobo53bo$31bobobob
ob2o$32b2obobob2o$36bo$23b2o56b2o$23bo56bobo$4bo15b2obo7b2o47bo$2b5o
14bobobo5b2o46b2o11bo$bo5bo13bo2b2o64bobo$bo2b3o12bobo69b2o$2obo15b2o
35bo$o2b4o48bo$b2o3bo3b2o43b3o$3b3o4b2o$3bo$2obo30b2o$2ob2o29bo$35b3o
22bo$37bo20b3o$11b2o44bo$12bo44b2o$9b3o$9bo$65b2ob2o$66bob2o$66bo$58b
2o4b3o$5bo52b2o3bo3b2o$3b5o14b2o39b4o2bo$2bo5bo13bo2bo23b2o15bob2o$2bo
2b3o12bobob2o18b2o2bobo12b3o2bo$b2obo15b2obo21bo2bo13bo5bo$bo2b4o15bo
19bo2b3o14b5o$2b2o3bo3b2o10b3o17b3o19bo$4b3o4b2o13bo19bo$4bo20b2o18b2o
$b2obo$b2ob2o3$12b2o$13bo$10b3o22b2o18b2o$10bo17b2o5bobo10b2o5bobo$28b
2o7bo10b2o7bo$37b2o18b2o2$24bo19bo$23bobob2o14bobob2o$23bobobobo13bobo
bobo$22b2obobobo2bo9b2obobobo2bo$23bo2b2ob4o10bo2b2ob4o$23bo4bo14bo4bo
$24b3obo2b2o11b3obo2b2o$26b2o3b2o13b2o3b2o!

I've also been meaning for a while to add these two shortened versions of my previous p958.
This is a p590+8n. The Herschel stopper used here gives a slightly better bounding box than the two blocks stopper, which could also be relevant here.

x = 73, y = 69, rule = Life
65b2o$65b2o4$28b2o3b2o$26b3obo2b2o$25bo4bo$25bo2b2ob4o34b2o$24b2obobob
o2bo34bobo$25bobobobo39bo$25bobob2o40b2o$26bo2$39b2o$30b2o7bo$30b2o5bo
bo$37b2o2$9bo$9b3o27bo$12bo26b3o19bo$11b2o29bo17b3o$41b2o16bo2b2o$27b
2o29b5o$2ob2o23bo29b4o$2obo21b3o30b4o$3bo21bo33b2obob2o$3b3o4b2o48bo4b
o$b2o3bo3b2o49b2o2bo3bob2o$o2b4o44b2o8b4o4b2obo$2obo15b2o23b2o5bobo9bo
$bo2b3o12bobo22b2o7bo$bo5bo13bo31bob2o$2b5o14b2o31bobo$4bo35bo$39bobob
2o$39bobobobo$38b2obobobo2bo$39bo2b2ob4o$32bo4bobo4bo$30b3o4b2o5bobo$
29bo15b2o$29b2o$14b2o$15bo56bo$15bob2o51bobo$16bo2bo51b2o$17b2o$32b2o
13b2o$32b2o13b2o5$71b2o$71b2o$35b2obo6b2o$35b2ob3o3bobo$41bo2bo$35b2ob
3o2b2o26b2o$36bobo32b2o$24b2o10bobo18b2o$24b2o11bo18bobo$56bo$55b2o8b
2o$65bo$66b3o$68bo!

And this is a p758+8n. It's size varies a bit strangly as the lower left Snark rounds the the Herschel stopper:

x = 84, y = 68, rule = Life
45b2o3b2o$45b2o2bob3o$49bo4bo$25b2o3b2o13b4ob2o2bo$23b3obo2b2o13bo2bob
obob2o$22bo4bo20bobobobo$22bo2b2ob4o17b2obobo$21b2obobobo2bo21bo$22bob
obobo$22bobob2o11b2o18bo$23bo16bo7b2o9b3o$40bobo5b2o12bo$36b2o3b2o18bo
bo$27b2o7bo24bobo$9bo17b2o5bobo25bo$9b3o22b2o$12bo$11b2o2$51b2o24b2o$
2ob2o46bo25b2o$2obo48b3o$3bo20b2o28bo$3b3o4b2o13bo$b2o3bo3b2o10b3o32b
2o$o2b4o15bo33bobo$2obo15b2obo33bo$bo2b3o12bobob2o30b2o7b2o$bo5bo13bo
3bo38b2o$2b5o14b3o2bo$4bo19b3o45b2obo$23bo48b2ob3o$23b2o30b2o21bo$53bo
2bo15b2ob3o$35b2o14b5o17bobo$36bo13bo22bobo$36bobo12b3o20bo$37b2o15bo$
51b4o20bo$13b2o31b2o3bo3b2o16b3o$12bobo5b2o24b2o4b3o2bo14bo$12bo7b2o
32bob2o14b2o$11b2o41bo9b2o$53b2o9b2o$25bo$21b2obobo$20bobobobo18b2o$
17bo2bobobob2o17bo$17b4ob2o2bo19b3o$21bo4bo22bo$17b2o2bob3o22bo31bo$
17b2o3b2o24b2o28b3o$77bo$39b3o35b2o$38b5o$37bob5o$36b2ob3o2b2o$37b3o2b
ob2o$38bo6b2o$42bo2bo$15b2o25b3o35b2o$15b2o63bobo$82bo$82b2o$23b2o19b
2o$23bo21bo15bo$24b3o17bo17bo7b2o3b2o$26bo17b2o14b3o7b2o3b2o!
simeks
 
Posts: 344
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby chris_c » May 4th, 2015, 9:01 am

simeks wrote:Here's a related p777+8n. The size grows from 6808 with increasing n, then suddenly drops back to 6887 for n = 5 as the lower left Snark "falls off the edge".


Thanks. Added as two separate families: p777 and p817 = (777 + 8 * 5).

simeks wrote:I modified my previous p827 to a p905+8n that breaks a few records.


Thanks. I think the way I have specified the gun gives optimal areas for low extensions but not for N->infinity. Hopefully this should be sufficient but I would appreciate if you could sanity check the results.

simeks wrote:This is a p590+8n. The Herschel stopper used here gives a slightly better bounding box than the two blocks stopper, which could also be relevant here.


Thanks, that one was easy to add and you are right about the p556.

simeks wrote:And this is a p758+8n. It's size varies a bit strangly as the lower left Snark rounds the the Herschel stopper


Yikes, that is strange growth. It seems that the height increases by 1 at extensions of 4, 6 and 9. Drops back by 3 at 13, then increases by 1 every other 2 for 20 and above. I added it in three separate families: p758, p806 and p862. The p862 is below. Again I would appreciate some cross-checking on the areas.

x = 97, y = 68, rule = B3/S23
58b2o3b2o$58b2o2bob3o$62bo4bo$38b2o3b2o13b4ob2o2bo$36b3obo2b2o13bo2bob
obob2o$35bo4bo20bobobobo$35bo2b2ob4o17b2obobo$34b2obobobo2bo21bo$35bob
obobo$35bobob2o11b2o18bo$36bo16bo7b2o9b3o$53bobo5b2o12bo$49b2o3b2o18bo
bo$40b2o7bo24bobo$40b2o5bobo25bo$47b2o4$64b2o24b2o$64bo25b2o$65b3o$37b
2o28bo$38bo$35b3o32b2o$35bo33bobo$69bo$9bo58b2o7b2o$9b3o65b2o$12bo$11b
2o72b2obo$85b2ob3o$68b2o21bo$2ob2o61bo2bo15b2ob3o$2obo44b2o14b5o17bobo
$3bo45bo13bo22bobo$3b3o4b2o37bobo12b3o20bo$b2o3bo3b2o38b2o15bo$o2b4o
57b4o20bo$2obo15b2o38b2o3bo3b2o16b3o$bo2b3o12bobo2b2o33b2o4b3o2bo14bo$
bo5bo13bo2bo42bob2o14b2o$2b5o14b3o2bo40bo9b2o$4bo19b3o39b2o9b2o$23bo$
23b2o$58b2o$58bo$59b3o$62bo$61bo31bo$61b2o28b3o$13b2o75bo$12bobo5b2o
30b3o35b2o$12bo7b2o29b5o$11b2o37bob5o$49b2ob3o2b2o$25bo24b3o2bob2o$21b
2obobo24bo6b2o$20bobobobo28bo2bo$17bo2bobobobob2o25b3o35b2o$17b4ob2o2b
ob2o63bobo$21bo4bo68bo$19bobo3b2o68b2o$19b2o15b2o19b2o$36bo21bo15bo$
37b3o17bo17bo7b2o3b2o$39bo17b2o14b3o7b2o3b2o!


EDIT: All this time and I never realised that the H->(1/3)G is actually H->Pi followed by Pi->(1/3)G. This fact allows a nice period tripled p418:

x = 79, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
27b2o11bo$27b2o10bobo$39bobo2b2o3bo$38b2ob2o2bo2bobo$42bobo3bobo$38b2o
bo2b4obo$38b2obobo3bo$42bobo3bo15b2o$43bobo3bo14bo$44bo3b2o12bobo$58b
2o2b2o$58b2o2$35b2o$35b2o$20b2o48b2o$19bo2bo47b2o$18bob2o$18bo55b2o$
17b2o55b2o$32b2o$14b2o16bo$14b2o17b3o$35bo10b2o$45bobo$45bo$44b2o32bo$
28b2o46bobo$28bo39b2o7b2o$26bobo40bo$26b2o10bo27b3o$38b3o17b2o6bo$2o
39bo16b2o$2o38b2o$55b2o$55bo$52b2obo$51bo2bo$41bobo8b2o$37b2o2b2o$37b
2o3bo2$14b2o$10b2o2b2o$9bobo12b2o3bo$9bo14bo3bobo$8b2o15bo3bobo$26bo3b
obob2o$24bob4o2bob2o$23bobo3bobo$23bobo2bo2b2ob2o$24bo3b2o2bobo$32bobo
10b2o$33bo11b2o!


EDIT2: The recent p436 and p590 gun families are convenient as Herschel factories. Thus I made some smaller pseudo-period guns. The top of the Hall of Pain is now dvgrn's bugbear... p62.

#C pseudo-period guns at p41, p58 and p59
x = 613, y = 86, rule = B3/S23
569b2o3b2o$569b2o2bob3o$573bo4bo$569b4ob2o2bo$569bo2bobobob2o$572bobob
obo$573b2obobo$577bo2$563b2o$564bo7b2o$564bobo4bo2bo$565b2o$574bo$266b
o11b2o294b2o12bo$265bobo10b2o293bo14b3o$257bo3b2o2bobo249b2o72bo$248b
2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o248b2o71bobo$248b2o6bobo3bobo325bobo$73b2o51b2o11bo
117bob4o2bob2o84b2o220b2o14bo$17b2o11bo42bobo50b2o10bobo118bo3bobob2o
84bobo219bo$17b2o10bobo42bo63bobo2b2o3bo109bo3bobo90bo4b2o118b2o3b2o
37b2o50b3o$29bobo2b2o3bo97b2ob2o2bo2bobo6b2o99bo3bobo87b4ob2o2bo2bo
114b3obo2b2o37b2o52bo$28b2ob2o2bo2bobo100bobo3bobo6b2o99b2o3bo88bo2bob
obobob2o113bo4bo119bo$32bobo3bobo12b2o82b2obo2b4obo124b2o79bobobobo
116bo2b2ob4o26bo39bo46b2o4b2o$28b2obo2b4obo13bo26bo56b2obobo3bo126b2o
80b2obobo115b2obobobo2bo25b3o36b5o14b2o29b2o4bo$28b2obobo3bo13bobo25bo
bo59bobo3bo121b2o88bo117bobobobo28b3o35bo5bo13bo24bobo3b3o2bo$32bobo3b
o12b2o25b2ob2o59bobo3bo119bo2bo205bobob2o67bo2b3o12bobo24bobo4b2o$33bo
bo3bo42bo2b2o56bo3b2o120b3o73b2o131bo33b4o33b2obo15b2o25b2o$34bo3b2o
41b2o2b2o45b2o112b3o20b2o14b2o59bo7b2o155b5o33bo2b4o30b2o11b2o$59b2o
70b3o111b5o34bo2bo58bobo5b2o135b2o18b2obo35b2o3bo3b2o24bobo13bo$19b3o
38bo76bo106b2o3bo35b2obo58b2o133b2o7bo60b3o4b2o24bo11bo2bo$18bo2bo14b
2ob2o19bobo68b3o3b2o99b2o4b5o39bo193b2o5bobo60bo31b2o11b3o$17bo18bo4b
2o18b2o75b2o16b2o80b2o3b4o41b2o199b2o58b2obo$18bo2bo12b2o83b2o16b2o17b
2o84b3o28b2o274b2ob2o$10b2o7b3o12b2obo4bo28bo46bo2bo120b2o30bo89bo96bo
139b2obo$9bo2bo21b2obo2b2o28bo46bob2o5bo116b2o26b3o88bobo96b3o27bo109b
2ob3o$8bob2o25bo2bo24bo5bo45bo8b2o27b2o9b2o76bobo12b2o10bo91b2o99bo26b
3o66b2o22b2o21bo$8bo54b2obo15bo33b2o7bobo26bo2bobobo4b2o76b3o12bobo95b
2o104b2o29bo66bo20bo2bo15b2ob3o$7b2o52b2obob2o13bobo47b2o22b2o2bobo81b
ob2o14bo95bo135b2o63b3o3b2o14b5o17bobo$22b2o39bo18bo48bo22bo5b3o80b2o
4bo11b2o95b3o118b2o77bo6bo13bo22bobo$22bo36bobo70b3o20bo6b2o81bo3b2o
83b2o24bo91b2ob2o23bo18b2o64bobo12b3o20bo$23b3o24b2o82bo10b2o8bo88b3o
3b2o36b3o44bo116b2obo10bo10b3o15b3o16b2o50b2o3b3o9bo$25bo11b2o11b2o7b
2o83bobo8bo87b2obobo39bo44bo121bo9bobo9bo13bob2o2bo4bo11b2o54bob2o6b4o
20bo$38bo30bo74bo9bob2o84b2o2bobo40bo43b5o14b2o101b3o6bo3bo21b5o4bo70b
o3bo5bo3b2o16b3o$35b3o30bo74b2o8bo3b2o83b2o4bo89bo13bo100b2o3bo5bo3bo
21b2ob4o2bo21bob2o46b3o7b3o2bo14bo$35bo31bob2o7b2o74bo2bobo87bo87b3o
12bobo99bo2b4o5bo3bo23b2o5b2o3bo16b2obo46b3o9bob2o14b2o$66b2o2bo7b2o
75b2o2b2o173bo15b2o100b2obo9bobo3b2o21b2ob2o3b2obo77bo9b2o$67b2obo85b
2ob2o173b4o115bo2b3o7bo4bobo20bobobo6bo76b2o9b2o$68b3o86bobo172b2o3bo
3b2o110bo5bo13bo31bob2o$87b2o69bo172bo2b3o4b2o111b5o14b2o20b3o8bobo$
88bo161bobo78b2obo13b2o106bo35bo2b2o77b2o21bo$88bobo160b2o81bo13bobo
140bobob2o77bo21bobo$9bo79b2o2b2o37bo118bo75b2o5b2o12bo43b2o97bobobobo
77b3o18bobo$8b3o12b2o68b2o35b3o194bo64bo97b2obobobo2bo34b2o41bo18bo$7b
o2b2o11bo105bo195bobo62bobo98bo2b2ob4o35bo40bo15b2o14bo$6b2o13bobo92b
2o11b2o11bo182b2o15b2o46b2o92bo4bobo4bo39bobo38b2o14bo13b3o$6bo14b2o
10bo71b2o9b2o24b3o198bo138b3o4b2o5bobo38b2o2b2o50b2ob2o8bo$5bo27b3o7bo
38bo23b2o37bo194b3o138bo15b2o13bobo26b2o25b2o22bo3bo2b3o4b2o$6b3o27bo
5bo39b3o15b2o3bo20b2o16b2o138bo49bo5bo36bo103b2o28bo2bo43b2o2bobo3bobo
b3o20bo2bo3bo$7bob2obo22b2o5b3o40bo12b2ob2o23b2o31b2o123b3o47b3o38b3o
88b2o43bo45b3obo3bo2bobo19b2ob2o8bo$2o6b3o39b2o32b2o12bo2b2o22bo2bo19b
2o9bo127bo15bobo31bo36bo92bo43b2o43b2o6bo3b3o19bo2b2obo3bo3bo$2o7bo2bo
37bo47bo3bo22b2obo2bo24b2obo114bo11b2o11b2o7b3o25b2o3bo7b2o23b2o91bob
2o59bo26bob5o3bo3bo18bo4bo3bobo2bo$10b2o35b2obo48b2obo26bo2bo11bobo3bo
4bo2bo113b3o24bobo4b2o2bo29bo8b2o117bo2bo44bo13b3o25b4o4bo4bo19bo3bo4b
o3bo$10b2o34bo2bo44b2o5bo27bobo13b2o9b2o113bo32b4ob2o28bo4bo35b2o11bo
75b2o44b3o15bo26bo6bo3bo22b2obo5bo$47b2o97b2o4bo118b2o33b3o30b2o40b2o
8bobo105b2o13b2o2bo13b2o34bo29bo3bo6b2o$8b3o20b3o71b2o40b2o3b3o101b2o
85bob3o32bo11b2o105b2o5b2o6b2o83b3o7bobo$7bo23bo73bobo38b2o4bo104bo84b
obo2bo134b2o20b5o5bob2o93bo$7bo3b2o18b2o53bo20bo37b2o110bob2o78b2obobo
b2o133bo22b2obob2o4b4o10bobo10b2o67b2o$11b2o22b2o50b2o18b2o35bobo3bo
107bo2bo113bo10b2o94bob4o15bo5bo2bo2bo2bo11b2o41b2o$8bo27bo49b2o40b2o
3bo10b2o113b2o82b3o29bo9bo2bo94b3obo16b3o2bo2b2ob4o11bo22b2o19bo$9bo2b
o6b2o3bo74b2o27bo3bobo10bo2b2o174b2o8bo42b3o6b2o116b3o7b3o6b2o28bobo
17bo15b2o8b2o3b2o$9b3o7bo3bobo73bobo13b2o12bo3bobo10b3o120b2o40b2o11b
2o6b2o27b2o16bo134b2o8bo30bo17b2o14bo9b2o3b2o$20bo3bobo74bo12bobo13bo
3bobob2o7bo121b2o41bo20b2o27bo14bobo107b2obo6b2o24bo31b2o33b3o$21bo3bo
bob2o70b2o11bo13bob4o2bob2o130bo38b3o47b3o6bob2o17b2o96b2ob3o3bobo93bo
$19bob4o2bob2o82b2o12bobo3bobo137b3o33bo49bo6b3ob2o17bo103bo2bo17b2o
31b2o$10b2o6bobo3bobo100bobo2bo2b2ob2o132bo2bo7bo3b2o76bo24b3o94b2ob3o
2b2o16bobo7b2o22bobo$10b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o56b2o39bo3b2o2bobo133bo2bo6bo
bo3bo39b2o36b3ob2o20bo95bobo22bobo7b2o24bo$19bo3b2o2bobo58bo8bo38bobo
10b2o120bo2bo6bobo3bo12b2o27bo20b2o16bobo105b2o10bobo18b2o3bo34b2o$27b
obo10b2o43b3o10bo38bo11b2o121bo4b2obobo3bo13bobo23b3o21bobo15bobo4b2o
99b2o11bo18bobo$28bo11b2o43bo10b3o169bo8b2obo2b4obo13bo23bo25bo16bo6bo
131bo$281bobo3bobo12b2o48b2o19b3o131b2o8b2o16b2o$277b2ob2o2bo2bobo83bo
143bo18bo8bo$278bobo2b2o3bo229b3o12b3o10bo$266b2o10bobo239bo12bo10b3o$
266b2o11bo!


EDIT3: The p59 goes back to the top of the pile:

#C pseudo-period guns at p54 and p62
x = 330, y = 83, rule = B3/S23
88b2o$88bobo$90bo4b2o175b2o$86b4ob2o2bo2bo108bo11b2o51bobo$86bo2bobobo
bob2o107bobo10b2o53bo4b2o$89bobobobo102bo3b2o2bobo61b4ob2o2bo2bo$28bo
11b2o48b2obobo93b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o60bo2bobobobob2o$27bobo10b2o52bo94b
2o6bobo3bobo67bobobobo$19bo3b2o2bobo168bob4o2bob2o64b2obobo$10b2o6bobo
2bo2b2ob2o49b2o118bo3bobob2o68bo$10b2o6bobo3bobo54bo7b2o108bo3bobo$19b
ob4o2bob2o50bobo5b2o107bo3bobo59b2o$21bo3bobob2o51b2o114b2o3bo61bo7b2o
$20bo3bobo176b2o60bobo5b2o$19bo3bobo177b2o61b2o$19b2o3bo179b2o$99bo
103bo7b2o$100bo110b2o3b2o$98b3o114b2o9b2o$23bo8b2o58b2o95b2o26bo7bo2bo
$23b2o7b2o58bo95b2o4bo31b2obo$22b3o14bo7b2o44b3o83b2o6b2o3b2o35bo46b2o
$17bobo2bo15b2o6bo2bo19b2o24bo83b2o7b2o3b2o34b2o36b2o7bo$17bobob2o15bo
bo6b2obo19bo118bo4bo19b2o50bobo8b3o$2o15b3o30bo17bo146bo37b2o13bo10bo$
2o48b2o16b5o14b2o123b3o39bo$35b2o36bo13bo112b2o10bo39bo$36bo33b3o12bob
o112bobo49b5o14b2o$33b3o33bo15b2o115bo54bo13bo$21b2o10bo35b4o129b2o50b
3o12bobo$21bobo43b2o3bo3b2o2b3o170bo15b2o$23bo42bo2b3o4b2o2bo172b4o$
23b2o41b2obo11bo169b2o3bo3b2o$69bo180bo2b3o4b2o36bo$69b2o179b2obo42bob
o$253bo43b2o$253b2o$77b2o$78bo$75b3o183b2o$75bo186bo$259b3o$259bo$126b
o$127bo$125b3o$41bo42bo54b2o$41b3o38b3o54bo$44bo21bo14bo55bobo107b2o$
31bo11b2o11b2o7b2o14b2o54b2o107b2o$29b3o24b2o7bobo180bo$22bo5bo$20bobo
5b2o45b3o46bo160b2o$13b2o6b2o49bobobobo43b3o105bo42bo11bobo40b2o$14bo
56b2obo3bo42bo108b3o38b3o11bo42bo$14bob2o54bobo2b2o42b2o110bo36bo55bob
o$15bo2bo20bobo28bo5bo143bo11b2o11b2o23b2o54b2o$16b2o21bobobo26b2obo2b
o13b2o15b3o30bo69bo7b3o24b2o$31b2o11b2o26b2obo14b2o15bo4bo25bobo70bo5b
o$31b2o10bo23b2o39bo3b2o25b2o68b3o5b2o94bo$66bobo44b2o87b2o107b3o$66bo
43bo2bo89bo27bo3bo40bo33bo$65b2o10b2o32b2o20b2o68bob2o22bo2bob3o39b2o
32b2o$40bo3b2o32bo53bo2bo68bo2bo24bobobo38bo3bo$39bobo3bo29b3o9b2o44b
2o70b2o23bo44bobo2bo48bo$38bobo3bo12b2o16bo11bo20b2o110b2o7b2o44b3o2bo
34b2o10bobo$34b2obobo3bo13bobo28bo20bo110b2o8bobo3bo19b2o58b2o10b2o$
34b2obo2b4obo13bo27b2o17b3o6bob2o17b2o92bobo22bobo57bo$38bobo3bobo12b
2o45bo6b3ob2o17bo118bo55bo$34b2ob2o2bo2bobo65bo24b3o114b2o10b2o43bo10b
2o$35bobo2b2o3bo67b3ob2o20bo89bo3b2o32bo44b2o7bo2bo$23b2o10bobo77bobo
110bobo3bo29b3o9b2o34bo2bo6b2o$23b2o11bo78bobo4b2o103bobo3bo12b2o16bo
11bo20b2o14bobo$116bo6bo99b2obobo3bo13bobo28bo20bo15bo$120b3o100b2obo
2b4obo13bo27b2o17b3o6bob2o17b2o$120bo106bobo3bobo12b2o45bo6b3ob2o17bo$
223b2ob2o2bo2bobo65bo24b3o$224bobo2b2o3bo67b3ob2o20bo$212b2o10bobo77bo
bo$212b2o11bo78bobo4b2o$305bo6bo$309b3o$309bo!
chris_c
 
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Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby simeks » May 7th, 2015, 11:11 pm

chris_c wrote:Again I would appreciate some cross-checking on the areas.

Let me get back to that! I've been busy learning some Python and working on a Golly script...

Just wanted to post this nice p392+8n gun made possible by your discovery here:

x = 66, y = 59, rule = Life
20b2o11bo$20b2o10bobo$32bobo2b2o3bo$31b2ob2o2bo2bobo$35bobo3bobo12bo$
31b2obo2b4obo11b3o$31b2obobo3bo12bo$35bobo3bo11b2o$36bobo3bo$37bo3b2o
4$28b2o$28b2o30b2o$13b2o45b2o$12bo2bo$11bob2o$11bo$10b2o$25b2o$25bo$
26b3o29b2obob2o$28bo10b2o17b2ob2obo$4bo33bobo$2b5o14b2o15bo$bo5bo13bo
15b2o$bo2b3o12bobo$2obo15b2o$o2b4o$b2o3bo3b2o$3b3o4b2o$3bo$2obo$2ob2o
2$29bo$11b2o16b3o$12bo19bo$9b3o19b2o4bo27bo$9bo27bobo23bobo$37b2o25b2o
2$50bo$49bobo$48bobo$41b2o3b3o2b3o3b2o$34b2o5bobobo3b2o3bo2b2o$34b2o7b
obo2bo2b2obo$43b2o3bobo2bo$47b2ob2o$30bo$29bobob2o$29bobobobo$28b2obob
obo2bo$29bo2b2ob4o$29bo4bo$30b3obo2b2o$32b2o3b2o!
simeks
 
Posts: 344
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Execution of Old Guns by Variable-Speed Firing Squad

Postby dvgrn » May 8th, 2015, 11:53 am

chris_c wrote:EDIT3: The p59 goes back to the top of the pile:
...
#C pseudo-period guns at p54 and p62...

That p54 is a bit oversized:

x = 123, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
98bo$84b2o10b3o$83bo2bo8bo$82bobobo8b2o$28bo11b2o40bobob2o$27bobo10b2o
38b2obo3bo5bo$19bo3b2o2bobo50bo2bob2o5bobo$10b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o46b2obo
bobo2bo5b2o2b2o$10b2o6bobo3bobo50bo2bobobob2o9b2o$19bob4o2bob2o47b2o6b
o$21bo3bobob2o49b5obo$20bo3bobo53bo4bo$19bo3bobo55b4o$19b2o3bo57bo$35b
2o37bo5bo$35b2o37b3o3b2o$31b2o44bo22b2o$30bo2bo42b2o21b2o$30b2ob2o66bo
$32bo14b2o$46bo2bo18b2o$9b2o36b2obo17bo$2o4b2obo40bo14b2obo49b2o$2o4bo
2bo40b2o13bo2bob2ob3o42bo$35b2o29b2o7bo44bo$36bo31b2o3bo3b2o21b2o14b5o
$4bo2b2o24b3o32bo15b2o15bo13bo$4bobo14b2o10bo35b2obo2bo8bobo14bobo12b
3o$5bo15bobo48bo6bo6bo15b2o15bo$23bo24b2o17b5o5bobo6b2o28b4o$6b2o15b2o
23bobo16bo10b2o31b2o3bo3b2o$6bobo39bo20bo41b2o4b3o2bo$5b2obob2o56b2o
49bob2o$5b2obo2bo107bo$5b2obobo107b2o$8b2o2$110b2o$110bo$11bo99b3o$12b
2o99bo$11b2o$94b2o$95b2o$41bo42bo9bo$41b3o18bo19b3o$44bo12bo3bo19bo$
31bo11b2o11bo4bo3b2o14b2o$29b3o24bo2bo2bo3bo$28bo28b4o3bobo$28b2o29b2o
3b2o$13b2o$14bo$14bob2o$15bo2bo75b3o$16b2o65b2o9bo2bo8bo$82bobo8bo2bo
7bobo$68b2o12bob2o7b3o9b2o$29bo2bo36bo12bo11b3o$29b2o22bo12b3o6bob2o4b
o2bo9b2o$29b6o18bo12bo6b3ob2o4bobo10bo$34bo5bo3b2o8bo17bo24b3o$39bobo
3bo27b3ob2o20bo$34bo3bobo3bo12b2o16bobo$35bobobo3bo13bobo15bobo4b2o$
35b3o2b4obo13bo16bo6bo$35bo2bobo3bobo12b2o19b3o$34b2ob2o2bo2bobo33bo$
35bobo2b2o3bo73bo$23b2o10bobo82bo$23b2o11bo81b3o!

A p102 glider stream also allows p6 reflectors, so I kind of suspect there's a similar trick for p51, using some inserter or other -- just haven't found a compatible glider source yet. Here's an alternate Herschel factory for p102:

x = 89, y = 76, rule = B3/S23
28bo11b2o$27bobo10b2o$19bo3b2o2bobo$10b2o6bobo2bo2b2ob2o$10b2o6bobo3bo
bo$19bob4o2bob2o$21bo3bobob2o$20bo3bobo10b3o$19bo3bobo10bo2bo$19b2ob2o
12bo3bo$35bo$36b2o3b2o$38bo5bo$39bo4bo$38bo5bo$10bo25b2o3b2o4b2o$9b3o
23bo10bo2bo$8bo2b2o23bo3bo6b2obo$2o5b2o3b2o25bo10bo$2o6bobo2bobo19bo3b
o10b2o$9b2o3b2o19bo$36bo$33b3o$21b2o10bo$21bobo$23bo$23b2o7$57bo$56b2o
$56bobo14$26bo23bo$27bo22b3o$25b3o25bo$40bo11b2o11b2o11bo$38b3o24b2o9b
3o$37bo38bobo$37b2o37bo$22b2o63bo$23bo62bobo$23bob2o59bobo$24bo2bo59bo
$25b2o14bo$39b2ob2o$40bo2bo$41b2o$37b2o$37b2o$49bo3b2o$48bobo3bo$47bob
o3bo12b2o$43b2obobo3bo13bobo$43b2obo2b4obo13bo$47bobo3bobo12b2o$43b2ob
2o2bo2bobo$44bobo2b2o3bo$32b2o10bobo$32b2o11bo!]
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