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David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

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David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » September 11th, 2014, 4:03 pm

In January 2005, David Bell proposed to build a caterpillar like structure based on glider reflecting and glider duplicating *WSS convoys. I thought with the new slow salvo machinery, this idea is now in reach of actual construction.

The spine would be built of a downstream series of a *WSS convoy, the left side reflecting a glider while the right side duplicates it repeatedly. This uses standard reactions as they are contained e.g. in Jason Summer's colllection.

The duplicated gliders form the rakes used to build an upstream HWSS-helix. This helix in turn is needed to created the new *WSS for the downstream spine.

I'll post an example spine as soon as I get to it. This is of course more a vague idea than a concrete implementation.

E.g. one would need an efficient mechanism to destroy the downstream convoys. The only idea I came up with would be a downstram helix running with negative speed that sends out gliders stopping the *WSS.

I'm open for any comments or suggestions.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » September 11th, 2014, 5:07 pm

I don't see how you would encode the information for building the upstream helix.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » September 12th, 2014, 3:58 am

the information is coded in the relative position of the "circulating glider" in the downstream convoy stream.

I supoose it's easiest with some example and clarifying pictures.

Unfortunately I need some time to provide that, which I hopefully find over the weekend!
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » September 12th, 2014, 6:08 am

Okay, now I got the the idea.
HartmutHolzwart wrote:E.g. one would need an efficient mechanism to destroy the downstream convoys. The only idea I came up with would be a downstram helix running with negative speed that sends out gliders stopping the *WSS.

In the worst case you can build an additional negative speed downward helix, that emits a glider that destroys the main spine. But I think it would be feasible to combine it with either part of the spine. A bigger problem would be definitely to build the front. Just imagine, that merely burning the upward helix would have to result in a non-trivial downward spaceship stream!
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » September 12th, 2014, 7:38 am

That is what I imagine! One cycle convoy would be about 6 to 8 downward *WSS.

And this convoy would have to be built fast enough so that the next cycle is ready in time.

I imagine two more or less symmetric spines supporting a lef and a right burning helix, so that the downward gliders ejected by the burning helices from the left and right sides could be combined to build the downward *WSS. Pretty similar to the current caterpillar frontend, only that it builds *WSS instead of blinkers with pairs of synchronized gliders.

Just for a rough estimation: Imagine a speed of around c/6 and a period of around 200 gens.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » September 12th, 2014, 4:28 pm

This is David Bell's original message from the life list (actually it's from October 2006). I hope this is OK:


4757 From: David Bell
Date: Sun Oct 8, 2006 6:57 am
Subject: Idea for various speed Caterpillars based on standard spaceships


It might be possible to make Caterpillar spaceships out of just standard
spaceships with no exotic crawling reaction required. The idea is very
simple, so please let me know whether it could really work! If it does
work, it should be possible to create Caterpillars with lots of different
speeds.

To illustrate the idea:

Using an appropriate helix, create two downward moving streams of
standard spaceship convoys one of which can perform a glider duplication
reaction and the other a glider reflection reaction. (These convoys take
the place of the blinkers in the existing Caterpillar. They are much
more complicated to build from a helix than just blinkers, but it should
still be possible.)

For the "exotic" crawling reaction, just use a glider! It just bounces
back and forth between the glider duplication and reflection convoys,
slowly moving upwards, liberating an output glider at each encounter with
a glider duplication reaction.

Multiple gliders can be running through the glider duplication convoys at
the same time to create lots of output gliders, just like multiple PIs
run through the existing Caterpillar.

These output gliders are then used to construct the helix which then
completes the loop.

I don't think that there is a need to multiply the base period of the
reaction like the 6x in the existing Caterpillar. The helix only has to
generate a single set of convoys since the spacing of the glider reactions
can be adjusted to match. Similarly, there is no need for a filter stream
for the output gliders.

The speed of the Caterpillar is determined by the upwards speed of the
gliders between the times that they are duplicated and turned, so it
would be near c/4, but slightly different due to the reactions involved.
Since the spacing of the two convoys is adjustable, the actual speed can
also be adjusted. The further apart the convoys are, the closer the speed
would be to c/4. I can think of ways to adjust the speed further, such
as having one of the glider paths go backwards to make a VERY slow
spaceship (but I don't know if this can work), or using a "catch and throw"
reaction to delay when the glider is sent back on its way.

Finally, in practice, more convoys would actually be needed. For example,
for the left and right side, for forwards and backward glider duplications,
for phase and color capabilities, and for "catch and throw" reactions.
This are details which I haven't thought about and which someone else
can investigate.

[I just realized that even glider bouncing isn't really necessary. A still
life can be activated by a passing convoy to create an output glider,
and then recreated a bit forwards in the spaceship so that the next convoy
can reuse it (to create a VERY slow spaceship again.) So this is something
else which can be investigated.]

BCNU,
-dbell-


Here is a sample spine:

x = 351, y = 771, rule = B3/S23
103$125b3o$127bo$126bo9$125bo$123b6o$123bobo$124bob3o$124b2o3bo$129bo$
126bo2bo$127b2o2$122bo$122bobo$122b2o8$127bobo$126bo$126bo$126bo2bo$
126b3o4$106bobo$105bo$105bo3bo$105bo3bo$105bo$105bo2bo$105b3o3$109bobo
$108bo$108bo3bo$108bo$108bo2bo$108b3o5$114b2o$114b3o$113bob2o$113b3o4b
2o$114bo5bobo$120bo31$78bo$76b2o43bobo$77b2o45bo$120bo3bo$124bo$121bo
2bo16bobo$122b3o19bo$140bo3bo$140bo3bo$144bo$141bo2bo$142b3o12$101bo
30bobo$99b2o30bo$100b2o29bo$131bo2bo$125bo5b3o$125b2o$124bobo9$125bo$
125b2o$124bo2bo$125bobo$125b2o2bo$126bo3bo$127bobo2$124bo$122b2o$123b
2o8$126b2o$125b3o$125b2obo$126b3o$127bo4$105b2o$104b3o$104b3o$104b3o$
104b2obo$105b3o$106bo3$108b2o$107b3o$107b3o$107b2obo$108b3o$109bo4$
114bobo2b2o$113bo4b2o$113bo6bo$113bo2bo$113b3o34$123b2o$123b3o$123b3o$
122bob2o$122b3o18b2o$123bo19b3o$143b3o$143b3o$142bob2o$142b3o$143bo10$
99bo$98bo$98b3o25b2o3b2o$125bobo2b3o$127bo2b2obo$131b3o$132bo8$126bo$
124bobo$122b3obobo$123bo4bo$124bo5bo$124b2o4bo$126b2o2bo$127b2o2$122bo
$121bo$121b3o9$125bobo$128bo$128bo$125bo2bo$126b3o4$104bobo$107bo$103b
o3bo$103bo3bo$107bo$104bo2bo$105b3o3$107bobo$110bo$106bo3bo$110bo$107b
o2bo$108b3o4$118b3o$113b2o3bo$112b3o4bo$112b2obo3b3o$113b3o3bo$114bo5b
o33$123bobo$122bo$122bo3bo$122bo$122bo2bo17bobo$122b3o17bo$142bo3bo$
142bo3bo$142bo$142bo2bo$142b3o11$98bobo$98b2o26b2o2bobo$99bo27b2o4bo$
126bo6bo$130bo2bo$131b3o8$125bo$124bobo$122bobo$122bo2bobobo$123b3o3bo
$124b3o2b3o$125b5o$126b3o3$121bobo$121b2o$122bo9$127b2o$127b3o$126bob
2o$126b3o$127bo4$106b2o$106b3o$106b3o$106b3o$105bob2o$105b3o$106bo3$
109b2o$109b3o$109b3o$108bob2o$108b3o$109bo2$119bo$118b2o$112bobo3bobo$
115bo2b3o$115bo2b3o$112bo2bo3bobo$113b3o34$122b2o$121b3o$121b3o$121b2o
bo$122b3o17b2o$123bo17b3o$141b3o$141b3o$141b2obo$142b3o$143bo10$98bo$
98bobo25b3o$98b2o28bo3b2o$127bo4b3o$131bob2o$131b3o$132bo7$125bo$123b
2o$124bobo$122bo2b2obo$123bo5bo$123bo$124bo$125bo3bo$127bo2$121bo$121b
obo$121b2o9$127bobo$126bo$126bo$126bo2bo$126b3o4$106bobo$105bo$105bo3b
o$105bo3bo$105bo$105bo2bo$105b3o3$109bobo$108bo$108bo3bo$108bo$108bo2b
o$108b3o5$114b2o3b2o$114b3o2bobo$113bob2o2bo$113b3o$114bo!
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » September 12th, 2014, 5:00 pm

There is something wrong with your pattern. It looks like it is an overlay of more than one pattern. (But I got the idea.)
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » September 13th, 2014, 3:57 pm

David Bell wrote:I just realized that even glider bouncing isn't really necessary. A still
life can be activated by a passing convoy to create an output glider,
and then recreated a bit forwards in the spaceship so that the next convoy
can reuse it (to create a VERY slow spaceship again.) So this is something
else which can be investigated.

This is an interesting side note. It seems very promising, especially because it might reduce amount of downward spaceships.

Something like the following would probably work, only if the loaf were re-created on the same vertical line and somewhat farther in order to have some space for slow salvo synthesis.
x = 27, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
23bobo$22bo$22bo3bo$22bo$22bo2bo$22b3o9$bobo$o$o3bo$o$o2bo$3o8$7b2o$6b
o2bo$6bobo$7bo!
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby Kazyan » September 14th, 2014, 11:34 pm

HartmutHolzwart wrote:E.g. one would need an efficient mechanism to destroy the downstream convoys. The only idea I came up with would be a downstram helix running with negative speed that sends out gliders stopping the *WSS.


Negative speed helices are comparatively simple, if we can use the loaf tractor beam reaction. I imagine that there would be two sections to the ship: the front section builds the forward helices to create the spine *WSSs, and a smaller back section that builds the downward helices to delete them.

x = 169, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
8b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b
2o$7b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2o
b2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o6b2ob2o2b2ob2o$8b4o3b4o7b
4o3b4o7b4o3b4o7b4o3b4o7b4o3b4o7b4o3b4o7b4o3b4o7b4o3b4o7b4o3b4o$9b2o5b
2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o9b2o5b2o$bo$
obo17b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o$o2bo16bo3bo13bo3bo13b
o3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo$b2o7bo2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo7b
o2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo7bo2bo6bo$9bo11bo
2bo2bo11bo2bo2bo11bo2bo2bo11bo2bo2bo11bo2bo2bo11bo2bo2bo11bo2bo2bo11bo
2bo2bo11bo2bo$9bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo13bo3bo
13bo3bo$9b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o14b4o10$8b2o25b2o$7b2ob
2o22b2ob2o$8b4o23b4o$9b2o25b2o$bo$obo57b4o$o2bo56bo3bo$b2o7bo2bo46bo$
9bo51bo2bo$9bo3bo$9b4o!


The back two LWSSs and the overall period can be tuned as needed to match the speed of the ship overall. The issue here is that the loaf moves 6 cells every period, which may be incompatible with the spacing of the most compact spine.

Once thing I notice is that we don't need rephasers for the engineless caterpillar, which could save a lot of room. If a still life or bouncing glider is in the wrong position, we can move it up or down by two cells (assuming a vertical orientation of the ship) and it will work fine. However, moving only one cell will not work, since *WSSs are p4 instead of p2 in their c/2 movement. This means that every glider liberated by the still life/bouncing glider is going to be the same color. So unless we use two spine of two different colors, this is a monochromatic slow salvo problem. The question is whether it's more efficient to A) use monochromatic slow-salvo tech and build only one spine or B) have freedom of color but need to build twice as much. From the work on the half-baked knightship, I'm leaning towards A), but I'm not the expert here.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby Kazyan » September 18th, 2014, 5:07 pm

Some far-from-exhaustive tinkering gives this: Five spaceships can displace a block by 5 spaces and liberate a glider. With this convoy, the maximum speed for the overall ship is 5c/215, or c/43. It involves two LWSSs, two MWSSs, and one HWSS.

x = 23, y = 172, rule = B3/S23
bobo$o$o$o2bo$3o10$3b2o$2b3o$2b2obo$3b3o$4bo18$20b2o$20b3o$20b3o$20b3o
$19bob2o$19b3o$20bo3$4bobo$7bo9b2o$3bo3bo9b3o$7bo9b3o$4bo2bo8bob2o$5b
3o8b3o$17bo62$b2o$b3o$ob2o$3o$bo9$4bobo$3bo$3bo$3bo2bo$3b3o18$18bobo$
21bo$17bo3bo$17bo3bo$21bo$18bo2bo$19b3o4$5b2o8bobo$4b3o11bo$4b3o7bo3bo
$4b2obo10bo$5b3o7bo2bo$6bo9b3o7$11b2o$11b2o!


Since the *WSS slow-salvo synthesis is going to be expensive--look at how huge the Caterpillar is when it's only making blinkers--lots of searching should go into making the convoys as small (as in, few *WSSs) as possible before we do anything else. Getting this down to 4 *WSSs is probably doable by a search script or something, and maybe down to 3 if a target other than a block is used. Two *WSSs are needed to make a block explode into something usable, but a loaf can be activated with only one, for example.

...Also, the above doesn't play nice with the tractor-loaf helix, which moves up by 6 cells every period as opposed to the above's 5 cells. Ideally, the block should be displaced by a multiple of 6, so we only need one set of negative helixes to delete the convoys.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » September 19th, 2014, 12:36 am

Kazyan wrote:Five spaceships can displace a block by 5 spaces and liberate a glider. With this convoy, the maximum speed for the overall ship is 5c/215, or c/43.

I'm afraid a space of height 5 is too little to allow slow salvo synthesis, and if you meant multiple glider synthesis, you would need much more southbound spaceships.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » September 19th, 2014, 3:18 am

Of course you would need some filter mechanism like in the caterpliiar construction, as the helix would not be x1. Estimating from the other examples, a height of abbout thirty should suffice, so it would be say x6.

The caterpillar front end uses abount 60 additional *WSS to the left and to the right to generate 24 gliders that produce 12 gliders for two tracks due to the x6 multiplying (not counting the burning helix stuff!).

As you can basically use a two or even threesided glider construction, 10 *WSS would amount to 40 coordinated gliders, for that you would then need about 240 upstream *WSS for glider duplication and putting them on the right lane and timing.

While this looks like a quite challenging engeneering task, it looks to me that you are absolutely capable of doing that given enough time and dedication.

If we plan to address more of these projects, some dedicated tools for front end generation are a must, I would think.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » September 19th, 2014, 3:57 am

HartmutHolzwart wrote:Of course you would need some filter mechanism like in the caterpliiar construction, as the helix would not be x1.

Not really. If you use still-lifes instead of gliders for encoding recipes you can extend the period as much as you want. In this case it would probably be worth to spend a couple more of spaceships to lengthen the step, than building about 6 times more spaceships with fanout devices.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » September 19th, 2014, 4:53 am

You are obviously correct.

My point was rather that you already did miracles with fanout devices, so I'd expect you to do some more ;-)
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby Kazyan » September 19th, 2014, 1:50 pm

Alrighty then--I'll see if I can find a convoy that displaces the block by, say, 18, 24, or 30 cells with a reasonable number of *WSSs.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby Kazyan » September 19th, 2014, 11:44 pm

Well, it's technically a multiple of 6...

x = 25, y = 41, rule = B3/S23
3bobo$6bo$2bo3bo$2bo3bo$6bo$3bo2bo$4b3o9$bobo$4bo$o3bo$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o
5$21b2o$4b2o14b3o$4b3o13b3o$4b3o13b2obo$3bob2o14b3o$3b3o16bo$4bo2$21bo
bo$20bo$10bobo7bo3bo$9bo10bo3bo$9bo3bo6bo$9bo5b2o3bo2bo$9bo2bo2b2o3b3o
$9b3o!


Might be useful if I find other block transformations that don't emit gliders.

EDIT: 4 MWSSes can shift a block by 5. So, by chaining these onto the 5-and-glider before, we can get a block displacement of 30. This is just to establish a baseline; I'm not settling for 25 (!) *WSSs being necessary.

x = 22, y = 274, rule = B3/S23
4bobo$7bo11b2o$3bo3bo10b3o$7bo10b3o$4bo2bo10b2obo$5b3o11b3o$20bo4$6bob
o$5bo10b2o$5bo3bo5b3o$5bo9b3o$5bo2bo6b2obo$5b3o8b3o$17bo15$4bobo$7bo
11b2o$3bo3bo10b3o$7bo10b3o$4bo2bo10b2obo$5b3o11b3o$20bo4$6bobo$5bo10b
2o$5bo3bo5b3o$5bo9b3o$5bo2bo6b2obo$5b3o8b3o$17bo15$4bobo$7bo11b2o$3bo
3bo10b3o$7bo10b3o$4bo2bo10b2obo$5b3o11b3o$20bo4$6bobo$5bo10b2o$5bo3bo
5b3o$5bo9b3o$5bo2bo6b2obo$5b3o8b3o$17bo15$4bobo$7bo11b2o$3bo3bo10b3o$
7bo10b3o$4bo2bo10b2obo$5b3o11b3o$20bo4$6bobo$5bo10b2o$5bo3bo5b3o$5bo9b
3o$5bo2bo6b2obo$5b3o8b3o$17bo15$4bobo$7bo11b2o$3bo3bo10b3o$7bo10b3o$4b
o2bo10b2obo$5b3o11b3o$20bo4$6bobo$5bo10b2o$5bo3bo5b3o$5bo9b3o$5bo2bo6b
2obo$5b3o8b3o$17bo75$b2o$b3o$ob2o$3o$bo9$4bobo$3bo$3bo$3bo2bo$3b3o18$
18bobo$21bo$17bo3bo$17bo3bo$21bo$18bo2bo$19b3o4$5b2o8bobo$4b3o11bo$4b
3o7bo3bo$4b2obo10bo$5b3o7bo2bo$6bo9b3o7$11b2o$11b2o!


EDIT 2: 26-and-glider with 8 *WSSs. Making this a multiple of 6 requires two 5-shifters, so the new number of *WSSs to beat is 16.

x = 28, y = 151, rule = B3/S23
7bobo$10bo11b2o$6bo3bo10b3o$10bo10b3o$7bo2bo10b2obo$8b3o11b3o$23bo4$9b
obo$8bo10b2o$8bo3bo5b3o$8bo9b3o$8bo2bo6b2obo$8b3o8b3o$20bo15$7bobo$10b
o11b2o$6bo3bo10b3o$10bo10b3o$7bo2bo10b2obo$8b3o11b3o$23bo4$9bobo$8bo
10b2o$8bo3bo5b3o$8bo9b3o$8bo2bo6b2obo$8b3o8b3o$20bo10$8bobo$7bo$7bo3bo
$7bo3bo$7bo$7bo2bo$7b3o3$22bobo$25bo$21bo3bo$25bo$22bo2bo$23b3o19$20b
2o$19b3o$19b2obo$20b3o$21bo14$bobo$4bo$o3bo$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o21$2bobo19bo
bo$5bo17bo$bo3bo17bo3bo$bo3bo17bo3bo$5bo17bo$2bo2bo17bo2bo$3b3o17b3o3$
20bobo$19bo$9bobo7bo3bo$8bo10bo3bo$8bo3bo6bo$8bo5b2o3bo2bo$8bo2bo2b2o
3b3o$8b3o!


EDIT 3: Combining two imperfect block-movers yields a 18-and-glider with 11 *WSSs. 11th *WSS not included; its position depends on which glider should be suppressed.

x = 25, y = 99, rule = B3/S23
bobo$o$o$o2bo$3o23$3bobo$6bo$2bo3bo14bobo$6bo17bo$3bo2bo13bo3bo$4b3o
17bo$21bo2bo$22b3o$9bobo$8bo$8bo3bo7bobo$8bo3bo6bo$8bo10bo3bo$8bo2bo7b
o$8b3o8bo2bo$19b3o33$5bobo$4bo$4bo3bo$4bo3bo$4bo$4bo2bo$4b3o14bobo$20b
o$20bo3bo$20bo3bo$bobo16bo$4bo15bo2bo$o3bo15b3o$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o$17bobo$
16bo$6bobo7bo3bo$5bo10bo3bo$5bo3bo6bo$5bo5b2o3bo2bo$5bo2bo2b2o3b3o$5b
3o!
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 8th, 2014, 8:53 am

Here is a recipe of 5 *WSS:

x = 53, y = 471, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$10b3o$10b3o$10b3o$9bob2o$9b3o$10bo92$50b2o$50b3o$50b3o$50b3o$49b
ob2o$49b3o$50bo80$bobo$4bo$o3bo$o3bo$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o4$5bobo$8bo$4bo3bo
7bobo$4bo3bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo$5bo2bo10bo$6b3o7bo2bo$17b3o14$12b2o$12b2o
23$12b2o$12b2o23$12b2o$12b2o47$12b2o$12b2o23$12b2o$12b2o43$12b2o$12b2o
89$12b2o$12b2o!


It moves the block by 38 (more than enough for slow salvo), and its minimal distance is 24.

The minimal period is 416:

x = 53, y = 679, rule = B3/S23
12b2o$12b2o89$12b2o$12b2o43$12b2o$12b2o23$12b2o$12b2o47$12b2o$12b2o23$
12b2o$12b2o23$12b2o$12b2o14$17b3o$6b3o7bo2bo$5bo2bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo$4bo
3bo10bo$4bo3bo7bobo$8bo$5bobo4$2b3o$bo2bo$4bo$o3bo$o3bo$4bo$bobo80$50b
o$49b3o$49bob2o$50b3o$50b3o$50b3o$50b2o92$10bo$9b3o$9bob2o$10b3o$10b3o
$10b3o$10b2o7$17b3o$6b3o7bo2bo$5bo2bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo$4bo3bo10bo$4bo3bo
7bobo$8bo$5bobo4$2b3o$bo2bo$4bo$o3bo$o3bo$4bo$bobo80$50bo$49b3o$49bob
2o$50b3o$50b3o$50b3o$50b2o92$10bo$9b3o$9bob2o$10b3o$10b3o$10b3o$10b2o!


NOTE: 4 *WSS is probably reachable, but it's not a "huge" improvement, and will probably not move the blocks so far away, so the slow salvo might be a bit tight. I think in current circumstances this is more than enough to move on to the slow salvo and helix recipes.

NOTE2 We probably need odd step so 38 is a bit of a problem. But this recipe idea should work in various ways.

EDIT Unfortunately all the possible combinations of R/G converters yield similar results, for example:

x = 55, y = 405, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$7b3o$7b3o$7b3o$7b2obo$8b3o$9bo13$51bobo$54bo$50bo3bo$50bo3bo$54bo
$51bo2bo$52b3o93$bobo$4bo$o3bo$o3bo$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o4$5bobo$8bo$4bo3bo7b
obo$4bo3bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo$5bo2bo10bo$6b3o7bo2bo$17b3o14$12b2o$12b2o23$
12b2o$12b2o23$12b2o$12b2o47$12b2o$12b2o23$12b2o$12b2o43$12b2o$12b2o89$
12b2o$12b2o!


This make the step 20, still even. There is also no freedom of G->Block converter, as they all make the same relative location, and no movement of 1up or down is possible.

EDIT2 Anyway here is all I've found for 3 *WSS maybe someone would be able to find something better there:

x = 14627, y = 55, rule = B3/S23
3997bobo$4000bo$3996bo3bo$4000bo$3997bo2bo$3998b3o16$bobo12421bobo$4bo
396bobo12020bo200bobo$o3bo197b2o200bo196bobo400b2o198b2o798b2o198bobo
196bobo3817bobo2397b2o198b2o3599bo3bo195bo198b2o200bobo197b2o395bobo$o
3bo196b3o196bo3bo199bo198bobo198b3o197b3o195bobo399b2o198b3o196bo202bo
197b2o398b2o200b2o613b2o198b2o597bobo1599bo200b2o198b2o1997b3o197b3o
199bobo396b2o2999bo3bo195bo3bo193b3o199bo200b3o195b2o200bo397bobo197bo
bo$4bo196b3o196bo3bo195bo3bo197bo201b3o197b3o198bo198b2o197b3o197bob2o
196bo198bo3bo197b3o197b2o197b3o200b3o197b2o412b3o197b3o198b2o198b2o
200bo596bobo999bo3bo196b3o197b3o195b2o200b2o198b2o196bobo1198b3o197b3o
198bo199b2o198b3o198bobo395bobo2399bo199bo3bo193b2obo198bo3bo196b3o
194b3o200bo197b2o201bo199bo$bo2bo196b2obo199bo195bo3bo197bo3bo197b3o
196bob2o194bo3bo198b3o196b3o197b3o197bo2bo195bo3bo196bob2o197b3o196b2o
bo199b3o197b3o212bobo196b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o196bo3bo197b2o198b2o200bo
198b2o198bobo396b2o199bo3bo196b3o197b3o194b3o200b3o197b3o198bo198b2o
997b3o197b2obo197bo3bo194b3o197bob2o197bo199b2o200bo198b2o198b2o197b2o
397bobo397bobo999bo2bo196bo198b3o198bo3bo195bob2o194b2obo196bo2bo196b
3o197bo3bo195bo3bo195bobo$2b3o197b3o196bo2bo199bo197bo200bob2o196b3o
199bo198b3o196b2obo197bo198b3o200bo196b3o197bob2o197b3o198bob2o196bob
2o211bo199b3o197b2obo196b3o197b3o196bo3bo196b3o197b3o196bo3bo198b3o
196bo199b2o198b3o198bo200b3o196bob2o194b2obo199b3o197b3o194bo3bo198b3o
197b2o198bobo596b2obo197b3o197bo198b3o197b3o198bo3bo194b3o196bo3bo198b
3o197b3o196b3o196b2o201bo198b2o199bo198b2o197b2o198bobo398b3o197bo2bo
196bo199bo199b3o196b3o197b3o196b2obo196bo3bo199bo198bo198b2o$203bo198b
3o196bo2bo197bo2bo197b3o198bo197bo2bo197bob2o197b3o596bo2bo197bo198b3o
199bo199b3o197b3o212bo3bo195b2obo197b3o196b3o197b2obo199bo196b3o197b3o
196bo3bo198b3o196bo3bo194b3o197bob2o198bo2bo196bob2o196b3o196b3o199b3o
196bob2o198bo198b3o197b3o196bo199b2o198b2o199b3o198bo198bo2bo195b2obo
197bo199bo198b3o196bo3bo198b3o197b3o195bob2o195b3o197bo3bo198b3o194bo
3bo198b3o196b3o196bo199b2o400b3o397bo2bo197bo198bo398b3o200bo196bo2bo
198bo198b3o$602b3o197b3o199bo398b3o197b3o199bo598b3o397bo401bo199bo
213bo200b3o198bo197b2obo197b3o196bo2bo196b3o197b2obo199bo198b3o196bo
198b3o197b3o199b3o197b3o198bo198bo199bob2o196b3o196bo2bo197bob2o197b3o
196bo3bo194b3o198b3o199bo398b3o197b3o397bo2bo195b2obo199bo198b3o196bob
2o195b3o196b2obo196bo3bo198b3o198bo198b3o195bob2o196bo198b3o800b3o797b
o198bo2bo197b3o195bo2bo197bob2o$1604bo2015bo2bo198bo398b3o198bo198b3o
196b2obo197b3o196bo2bo197bob2o196bo2bo195b2obo197bo401bo598b3o198bo
198b3o197b3o197bob2o196bo198b3o197bob2o799bo398b3o197b3o196bo2bo197bob
2o196b3o197bo198b3o200bo198b3o195bo2bo197bob2o195b3o197bo2bo195b2obo
1799b3o396b3o197b3o$3620b3o599bo598b3o198bo198b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o
1199bo599bo198b3o197bo2bo195b2obo196b3o1400bo198b3o197b3o198bo398bo
198bo2bo197bob2o196b3o197b3o197bo198b3o197b3o2399bo$5bobo197bobo197bob
o197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bob
o197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bob
o197bobo197bobo14bo182bobo197bobo197bobo14bo182bobo197bobo14bo182bobo
197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo15bo
181bobo14b3o180bobo14b3o180bobo14bo182bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo
197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo16bo180bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo15b3o179bo
bo15b3o179bobo197bobo16bo180bobo197bobo197bobo15bo181bobo197bobo197bob
o197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo197bobo$8bo
199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo
199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo
199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo14bo
184bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo
199bo15bo183bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo
199bo199bo199bo199bo199bo$4bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3b
o7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bob
o185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185b
o3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo
7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo
185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo
3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7b
obo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo
185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo
3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7b
obo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo
185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo
3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7b
obo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo185bo3bo7bobo
185bo3bo7bobo$4bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo
10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo
3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo
184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo
10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo
3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo
184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo
10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo
3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo
184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo
10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo
3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo
184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo10bo184bo3bo
10bo184bo3bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo
188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188b
o6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo
3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo
188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188b
o6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo
3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo
188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188b
o6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo
3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo
188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188b
o6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo188bo6bo3bo$5bo2bo
10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo
2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo
185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo
10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo
2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo
185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo
10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo
2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo
185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo
10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo
2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo
185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo
10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo185bo2bo10bo$6b3o
7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b
3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo
186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo
2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o
7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b
3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo
186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo
2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o
7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b
3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo
186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo
2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o
7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo186b3o7bo2bo$17b3o197b3o197b
3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o
197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b
3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o
197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b
3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o
197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b3o197b
3o197b3o197b3o14$12b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b
2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b
2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b
2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o$12b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b
2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b
2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b
2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o198b2o
198b2o!
Last edited by simsim314 on November 8th, 2014, 11:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby codeholic » November 8th, 2014, 9:40 am

simsim314 wrote:Here is a recipe of 5 *WSS:

Well done!
simsim314 wrote:NOTE2 We probably need odd step so 38 is a bit of a problem. But this recipe idea should work in various ways.

It would be nice, but monochromatic salvos are good enough.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 8th, 2014, 1:25 pm

Just to be more clear and to demonstrate the slow salvo construction with the engineless caterpillar, maybe this will make more sense:

x = 504, y = 5403, rule = B3/S23
460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$
499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$
453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b
3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo
$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$
457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bo
bo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo
3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b
2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b
3o11$6b2o$6b2o37$6b2o$6b2o31$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b
3o$6b2o447bo$6b2o3$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$
458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$
460bo2bo$461b3o15$6b2o$6b2o37$6b2o$6b2o37$6b2o$6b2o492bobo$503bo$469bo
29bo3bo$467bobo29bo3bo$467bo3bo31bo$469bo2bo27bo2bo$469bo2bo28b3o$471b
o13$467bo$467bob2o$468bobo$470b2o$470b2o3b2o$471b2o3b2o$472b3obo$473b
3o10$6b2o$6b2o10$446bo$445bo$445b3o25$6b2o$6b2o11$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o
$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$
457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$6b2o
451bo3bo$6b2o455bo$460bo2bo$461b3o35$6b2o$6b2o19$361bo$360bo$360b3o16$
6b2o$6b2o18$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o13$6b
2o$6b2o37$6b2o$6b2o28$276bo$275bo178b2o$275b3o175b3o$453b3o$453b3o$
453b2obo$454b3o$455bo2$6b2o$6b2o$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$
457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459b
o3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o17$6b2o$6b2o37$6b2o$6b2o36$500bobo$6b2o183bo
311bo$6b2o182bo308bo3bo$190b3o306bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o33$6b2o$6b
2o31$466bo$465bobo$464bo2b2o$464bob2o$463b3o2$6b2o459bobo$6b2o459bobo
2$469b2o$470bo6$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$
458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b
3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$6b2o452bo2bo$6b2o453b
3o8$106bo$105bo$105b3o27$6b2o$6b2o37$6b2o$6b2o$383bo$382bo$382b3o13$
500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o15$6b2o$6b2o17$
21bo$20bo$20b3o18$6b2o$6b2o27$454b2o$6bo446b3o$5bobo445b3o$5bobo445b3o
$6bo446b2obo$454b3o$b2o7b2o443bo$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo451b2o$5bobo
449b3o$5bobo449b3o9b2o$6bo450b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b
3o$470bo4$298bo$297bo$297b3o160bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460b
o2bo$461b3o10$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5bo
bo$5bobo$6bo26$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5b
obo$5bobo$6bo26$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo487bobo$b2o7b2o
491bo$499bo3bo$6bo492bo3bo$5bobo495bo$5bobo492bo2bo$6bo494b3o17$213bo$
212bo$212b3o7$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5bo
bo$5bobo$6bo26$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5b
obo$5bobo$6bo5$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b
2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$
470bo4$6bo$5bobo$5bobo452bobo$6bo456bo$459bo3bo$b2o7b2o447bo3bo$o2bo5b
o2bo450bo$b2o7b2o448bo2bo$461b3o$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo26$6bo121bo$5bobo
119bo$5bobo119b3o$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo
26$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6b
o12$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o8$6bo$5bobo$
5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo26$6bo$5bobo
$5bobo$6bo2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o2$6bo36bo$5bobo34bo$5bobo34b3o$
6bo23$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$6bo446b3o$5bobo445b2obo$5bobo446b3o$6bo448b
o2$b2o7b2o$o2bo5bo2bo$b2o7b2o446b2o$457b3o$6bo450b3o9b2o$5bobo449b3o8b
3o$5bobo449b2obo7b3o$6bo451b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$
459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo
3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b
3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2ob
o$459bo9b3o$470bo6$460bobo$463bo$459bo3bo$459bo3bo$463bo$460bo2bo$461b
3o92$500bobo$503bo$499bo3bo$499bo3bo$503bo$500bo2bo$501b3o81$454b2o$
453b3o$453b3o$453b3o$453b2obo$454b3o$455bo4$458b2o$457b3o$457b3o9b2o$
457b3o8b3o$457b2obo7b3o$458b3o7b2obo$459bo9b3o$470bo!
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simsim314
 
Posts: 1492
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 8th, 2014, 5:12 pm

Here is a helix, which is a result of preliminary experimentation . It has 294 recovery time, which is well below the maximal 416 for this application:

x = 28, y = 106, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$10b2o6$5bo$4b3o$3b2obo$3b3o$3b3o$4b2o4$4bo$3b3o$3bob2o5bo$4b3o4b
3o$4b2o4b2obo$10b3o$10b3o$11b2o10$8b3o$8bo2bo$8bo$8bo3bo$8bo$9bobo4$9b
3o$8bo2bo$b3o7bo$bo2bo6bo$bo6bobo$bo3bo$bo$2bobo10$14bo$13b3o$12b2obo$
12b3o$12b3o$13b2o4$16b3o$15bo2bo$18bo$14bo3bo$6bo11bo$5b3o7bobo$4b2obo
$4b3o$5b2o12$4bo$3b3o$3bob2o$4b3o$4b3o$4b2o2$25bo$24b3o$3o21bob2o$o2bo
21b3o$o24b2o$o3bo$o11bo$bobo7b3o$11bob2o$12b3o$12b2o!


EDIT Found a 7 *WSS glider emitting helix but with recovery much beyond 416 (around 490):

x = 13, y = 145, rule = B3/S23
7b2o$7b2o3$4bo$3b3o$2b2obo$2b3o$2b3o$2b3o$3b2o10$bo4b3o$3o2bo2bo$ob2o
4bo$b4o3bo$b2obo3bo$8bo$5bobo96$7bo$6b3o$5b2obo$5b3o$5b3o$5b3o$6b2o10$
3b3o4bo$2bo2bo3b3o$5bo3bob2o$bo3bo4b3o$bo3bo4b2o$5bo$2bobo!


EDIT2 Fount it! 7 *WSS Slow salvo helix with recovery 416:

x = 14, y = 282, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$6b2o6$10b3o$2b3o4bo2bo$2bo2bo6bo$2bo5bo3bo$2bo3bo5bo$2bo3bo2bobo$
2bo$3bobo8$11b3o$10bo2bo$13bo$13bo$10bobo66$b3o$bo2bo4b3o$bo6bo2bo$bo
3bo5bo$bo5bo3bo$2bobo2bo3bo$11bo$8bobo8$3o$o2bo$o$o$bobo66$10b3o$2b3o
4bo2bo$2bo2bo6bo$2bo5bo3bo$2bo3bo5bo$2bo3bo2bobo$2bo$3bobo8$11b3o$10bo
2bo$13bo$13bo$10bobo66$b3o$bo2bo4b3o$bo6bo2bo$bo3bo5bo$bo5bo3bo$2bobo
2bo3bo$11bo$8bobo8$3o$o2bo$o$o$bobo!


That was too easy.

EDIT3 the *WSS are pretty interchangeable so here is pure MWSS recipe:

x = 14, y = 113, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$6b2o6$10b3o$2b3o4bo2bo$2bo2bo6bo$2bo5bo3bo$2bo3bo5bo$2bo6bobo$3bo
bo9$11b3o$10bo2bo$13bo$9bo3bo$13bo$10bobo65$b3o$bo2bo4b3o$bo6bo2bo$bo
3bo5bo$bo5bo3bo$2bobo6bo$8bobo9$3o$o2bo$o$o3bo$o$bobo!


The only thing left to do is to find (or ask dvgrn for) monochromatic slow salvo recipe for edge shooting MWSS.

EDIT4 Just to have a quick reference, here is a stamp collection of edge shooters (thx codeholic and dvgrn):
viewtopic.php?p=12247#p12247

And in my opinion this can be easily modified to work with monochromatic slow salvo:

x = 1244, y = 1231, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o135$152bo$150bobo$151b2o159$302bo$300bobo$301b2o130$451bo$
452b2o$451b2o162$602bo$600bobo$601b2o159$783bo$781bobo$782b2o124$901bo
$902b2o$901b2o159$1052bo$1050bobo$1051b2o166$1232bo$1233b2o$1232b2o3$
1239bo$1239bo$1239bo2$1235b3o3b3o7$1235b3o3b3o2$1239bo$1239bo$1239bo!


EDIT5 Now noticed it can work with the same direction as well as the 19 movement has no dx component:

x = 12, y = 295, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$4b2o6$8b3o$3o4bo2bo$o2bo6bo$o5bo3bo$o3bo5bo$o6bobo$bobo9$9b3o$8bo
2bo$11bo$7bo3bo$11bo$8bobo69$8b3o$3o4bo2bo$o2bo6bo$o5bo3bo$o3bo5bo$o6b
obo$bobo9$9b3o$8bo2bo$11bo$7bo3bo$11bo$8bobo69$8b3o$3o4bo2bo$o2bo6bo$o
5bo3bo$o3bo5bo$o6bobo$bobo9$9b3o$8bo2bo$11bo$7bo3bo$11bo$8bobo69$8b3o$
3o4bo2bo$o2bo6bo$o5bo3bo$o3bo5bo$o6bobo$bobo9$9b3o$8bo2bo$11bo$7bo3bo$
11bo$8bobo!


Noticed now, the recovery will be a bit higher...
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simsim314
 
Posts: 1492
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 9th, 2014, 5:34 am

Here are some more recipes for helixes (7 and 8 depending on the glider direction):

Backward glider (with 7):

x = 35, y = 52, rule = B3/S23
$23b2o$23b2o8$17b3o$16bo2bo$19bo$15bo3bo$19bo$16bobo2$11b3o$10bo2bo$
13bo$9bo3bo$3b3o3bo3bo7bo$3bo2bo6bo6b3o$3bo6bobo7bob2o$3bo3bo13b3o$3bo
3bo13b3o$3bo17b2o$4bobo8$23b3o$23bo2bo$23bo$23bo3bo$23bo$24bobo2$29b3o
$29bo2bo$29bo$29bo3bo$21bo7bo3bo$20b3o6bo$19b2obo7bobo$19b3o$19b3o$20b
2o!


Forward glider (with eight):

x = 61, y = 110, rule = B3/S23
2$47b2o$47b2o8$41b3o$40bo2bo$43bo$39bo3bo$43bo$40bobo2$35b3o$34bo2bo$
37bo$33bo3bo$33bo3bo7bo$37bo6b3o$34bobo7bob2o$45b3o$45b3o$45b2o3$34bo$
33b3o$32b2obo$32b3o$32b3o$32b3o$33b2o12b3o$47bo2bo$47bo$47bo3bo$47bo$
48bobo2$53b3o$53bo2bo$53bo$53bo3bo$45bo7bo3bo$44b3o6bo$43b2obo7bobo$
43b3o$43b3o$44b2o45$17bo$16b3o$15b2obo$15b3o$15b3o$15b3o$16b2o!
Last edited by simsim314 on November 10th, 2014, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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simsim314
 
Posts: 1492
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 10th, 2014, 8:55 am

Here is (backwards) glider emitting helix with 5 *WSS (step 38 forward):

x = 82, y = 151, rule = B3/S23
2b2o68b2o$2b2o68b2o7$70b3o$7bo62bo2bo$6b3o61bo$6bob2o60bo$7b3o61bobo$
7b2o2$75bo$74b3o$74bob2o$75b3o$75b3o$75b2o8$14bo$13b3o$2bo10bob2o$b3o
10b3o$2obo10b3o$3o11b3o$b2o11b2o3$75bo$74b3o$74bob2o$75b3o$75b2o67$3bo
$2b3o$b2obo$b3o$b3o$2b2o5b3o$9bo2bo$9bo$9bo$10bobo24$73bo$72b3o$72bob
2o$73b3o$73b3o$73b2o4b3o$78bo2bo$81bo$81bo$78bobo!


EDIT Now that I fixed an error about the minimal period which is now known to be 337, unfortunately this recipe has minimal period of 345.

x = 18, y = 243, rule = B3/S23
2b2o3bo$2b2o2b3o$5b2obo$5b3o$6b2o15$14bo$13b3o$2bo9b2obo$b3o8b3o$bob2o
7b3o$2b3o7b3o$2b2o9b2o74$3bo$2b3o$2bob2o$3b3o$3b3o$3b2o4b3o$8bo2bo$11b
o$11bo$8bobo27$6b3o$6bo2bo$6bo$6bo$7bobo15$13b3o$13bo2bo$b3o9bo$o2bo9b
o3bo$3bo9bo3bo$3bo9bo$obo11bobo74$2b3o$bo2bo$4bo$o3bo$4bo5bo$bobo5b3o$
8b2obo$8b3o$9b2o!


EDIT2 Fount it! 5 *WSS helix with recovery time 327, which is 10 generations below the needed 337.

x = 18, y = 434, rule = B3/S23
12b2o$12b2o5$6b3o$6bo2bo$6bo$6bo3bo$6bo3bo3bo$6bo6b3o$7bobo2b2obo$12b
3o$12b3o$13b2o18$8b3o$8bo2bo$8bo$8bo$9bobo3$b3o$bo2bo$bo$bo$2bobo7$6b
3o$6bo2bo$6bo$6bo3bo$6bo3bo$6bo$7bobo74$7bo$6b3o$5b2obo$5b3o$5b3o$5b3o
5b3o$6b2o4bo2bo$15bo$11bo3bo$15bo$12bobo17$9bo$8b3o$7b2obo$7b3o$8b2o3$
2bo$b3o$2obo$3o$b2o7$7bo$6b3o$5b2obo$5b3o$5b3o$5b3o$6b2o75$6b3o$5bo2bo
$8bo$4bo3bo$4bo3bo5bo$8bo4b3o$5bobo5bob2o$14b3o$14b3o$14b2o18$8b3o$7bo
2bo$10bo$10bo$7bobo3$b3o$o2bo$3bo$3bo$obo7$6b3o$5bo2bo$8bo$4bo3bo$4bo
3bo$8bo$5bobo74$7bo$6b3o$6bob2o$7b3o$7b3o$7b3o3b3o$7b2o4bo2bo$13bo$13b
o3bo$13bo$14bobo17$9bo$8b3o$8bob2o$9b3o$9b2o3$2bo$b3o$bob2o$2b3o$2b2o
7$7bo$6b3o$6bob2o$7b3o$7b3o$7b3o$7b2o!


Now left to find forward glider with good recovery, and maybe to give a try to 4 *WSS helix for the backward. Then we can pass to other parts (head using the helix, tail (probably using negative helix) and slow salvo recipes).

EDIT2
Here is previous recipe with extra *WSS shooting forward glider:

x = 17, y = 198, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$11b2o3$6bo$5b3o$5bob2o$6b3o$6b3o$6b3o3b3o$6b2o4bo2bo$12bo$12bo3b
o$12bo$13bobo17$8bo$7b3o$7bob2o$8b3o$8b2o3$bo$3o$ob2o$b3o$b2o7$6bo$5b
3o$5bob2o$6b3o$6b3o$6b3o$6b2o11$7bo$6b3o$6bob2o$7b3o$7b3o$7b2o59$5b3o$
5bo2bo$5bo$5bo3bo$5bo3bo3bo$5bo6b3o$6bobo2b2obo$11b3o$11b3o$12b2o18$7b
3o$7bo2bo$7bo$7bo$8bobo3$3o$o2bo$o$o$bobo7$5b3o$5bo2bo$5bo$5bo3bo$5bo
3bo$5bo$6bobo11$6b3o$6bo2bo$6bo$6bo3bo$6bo$7bobo!


Run some pretty extensive search for 5 and forward glider and 4 for any glider with 0 results so far, so I guess we'll have to live with what we have. 5 for backward and 6 for forward, while the recipes are differ in only single *WSS (which is great feature for design). It's also not that bad, and I can't believe in possibility of drastic improvement (like 3 for backward or 4 for forward, because step of 38 is too large). So the recipes are very much OK, being close enough to the best as far as I'm concerned.
Last edited by simsim314 on November 11th, 2014, 2:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby HartmutHolzwart » November 10th, 2014, 9:46 am

Sorry for not reading more carefully through this thread!

What range of period / velocity you are currently working on?

Thanks for shedding some more light on your thought!

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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 10th, 2014, 10:41 am

Hey Hartmut,

Please see this message: viewtopic.php?p=14188#p14188

The velocity I'm aiming for is 38 /(416 + N). 38 is the step of the 5 *WSS recipe. 416 is the minimal recovery time. It might be for some reason I don't see yet 38 /(416 + 2 * N) or something of this sort.

I'm sure you get Bell's idea, but here is a small demonstration using the relevant recipe:

viewtopic.php?p=14194#p14194

EDIT

For some reason I thought the minimal period is 416. Made more accurate checks now - the minimal period is 337.

x = 54, y = 1028, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$10b3o$10b3o$10b3o$9bob2o$9b3o$10bo92$50b2o$50b3o$50b3o$50b3o$49b
ob2o$49b3o$50bo80$bobo$4bo$o3bo$o3bo$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o4$5bobo$8bo$4bo3bo
7bobo$4bo3bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo$5bo2bo10bo$6b3o7bo2bo$17b3o5$10bobo$9bo$9bo
3bo$9bo3bo$9bo$9bo2bo$9b3o92$50bobo$49bo$49bo3bo$49bo3bo$49bo$49bo2bo$
49b3o81$3b2o$3b3o$3b3o$3b3o$2bob2o$2b3o$3bo4$7b2o$7b3o$7b3o8b2o$7b3o8b
3o$6bob2o8b3o$6b3o8bob2o$7bo9b3o$18bo5$9b2o$8b3o$8b3o$8b3o$8b2obo$9b3o
$10bo92$49b2o$48b3o$48b3o$48b3o$48b2obo$49b3o$50bo80$3bobo$2bo$2bo3bo$
2bo3bo$2bo$2bo2bo$2b3o4$7bobo$6bo$6bo3bo7bobo$6bo3bo6bo$6bo10bo3bo$6bo
2bo7bo$6b3o8bo2bo$17b3o5$8bobo$11bo$7bo3bo$7bo3bo$11bo$8bo2bo$9b3o92$
48bobo$51bo$47bo3bo$47bo3bo$51bo$48bo2bo$49b3o81$2b2o$b3o$b3o$b3o$b2ob
o$2b3o$3bo4$6b2o$5b3o$5b3o9b2o$5b3o8b3o$5b2obo7b3o$6b3o7b2obo$7bo9b3o$
18bo5$10b2o$10b3o$10b3o$10b3o$9bob2o$9b3o$10bo92$50b2o$50b3o$50b3o$50b
3o$49bob2o$49b3o$50bo80$bobo$4bo$o3bo$o3bo$4bo$bo2bo$2b3o4$5bobo$8bo$
4bo3bo7bobo$4bo3bo10bo$8bo6bo3bo$5bo2bo3b2o5bo$6b3o3b2o2bo2bo$17b3o!


This is pretty interesting, making the minimal speed a bit below c/9. I guess if this design will work out, it will allow design for all lower speeds as a consequence (using small modification on the caterpillar).

EDIT2 Just a side note concerning the speed limitation of this approach. Ignoring for a moment the helix speed issues, the signal can be made to travel as close to glider travel speed as we want to. Making it possible to reach any speed lower (but not equal) to c/4, with not too high cost.

Here is demonstration of the idea.

x = 232, y = 4017, rule = B3/S23
193b2o$192b3o$192b3o$192b3o$192b2obo$193b3o$194bo548$b2o109b2o$3o109b
3o$3o109b3o$3o109b3o$2obo107bob2o$b3o107b3o$2bo109bo80$49bobo$48bo$48b
o3bo$48bo3bo$48bo$48bo2bo$48b3o4$45bobo$44bo$34bobo7bo3bo$33bo10bo3bo$
33bo3bo6bo$33bo10bo2bo$33bo2bo7b3o$33b3o7$37b2o$37b3o$37b3o$37b3o$36bo
b2o$36b3o$37bo548$229b2o$229b3o$229b3o$229b3o$228bob2o$228b3o$229bo80$
180bobo$183bo$179bo3bo$179bo3bo$183bo$180bo2bo$181b3o4$184bobo$187bo$
183bo3bo7bobo$183bo3bo10bo$187bo6bo3bo$184bo2bo10bo$185b3o7bo2bo$196b
3o7$193b2o$192b3o$192b3o$192b3o$192b2obo$193b3o$194bo548$b2o109b2o$3o
109b3o$3o109b3o$3o109b3o$2obo107bob2o$b3o107b3o$2bo109bo80$49bobo$48bo
$48bo3bo$48bo3bo$48bo$48bo2bo$48b3o4$45bobo$44bo$34bobo7bo3bo$33bo10bo
3bo$33bo3bo6bo$33bo10bo2bo$33bo2bo7b3o$33b3o7$37b2o$37b3o$37b3o$37b3o$
36bob2o$36b3o$37bo548$229b2o$229b3o$229b3o$229b3o$228bob2o$228b3o$229b
o80$180bobo$183bo$179bo3bo$179bo3bo$183bo$180bo2bo$181b3o4$184bobo$
187bo$183bo3bo7bobo$183bo3bo10bo$187bo6bo3bo$184bo2bo10bo$185b3o7bo2bo
$196b3o7$193b2o$192b3o$192b3o$192b3o$192b2obo$193b3o$194bo548$b2o109b
2o$3o109b3o$3o109b3o$3o109b3o$2obo107bob2o$b3o107b3o$2bo109bo80$49bobo
$48bo$48bo3bo$48bo3bo$48bo$48bo2bo$48b3o4$45bobo$44bo$34bobo7bo3bo$33b
o10bo3bo$33bo3bo6bo$33bo10bo2bo$33bo2bo7b3o$33b3o7$37b2o$37b3o$37b3o$
37b3o$36bob2o$36b3o$37bo548$229b2o$229b3o$229b3o$229b3o$228bob2o$228b
3o$229bo80$180bobo$183bo$179bo3bo$179bo3bo$183bo$180bo2bo$181b3o4$184b
obo$187bo$183bo3bo7bobo$183bo3bo10bo$187bo6bo3bo$184bo2bo10bo$185b3o7b
o2bo$196b3o38$191b2o$191b2o!


EDIT3 Another point to notice is that it's in principle possible to find such signal that will travel even faster than c/2. Making the helix the only limitation of such approach. And as I remember (reading somewhere, and I can't find it now) helixes have some very specific limitation somewhere below c/2 because they use interactions between glider and *WSS which is somehow limited, but in my opinion it's also possible to built helix as fast as we want to (up to c/2), in the same way - the limitation only concerns gliders but there are many other ways and signals that can be part of helix, and they could travel pretty fast.
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Re: David Bell's engineless caterpillar idea revisited

Postby simsim314 » November 11th, 2014, 4:12 am

Here is a very efficient 5* WSS negative speed helix (step 38).

x = 15, y = 302, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$2b3o$bob2o$b3o$2bo8$7bobo$6bo$6bo3bo$6bo3bo$6bo$6bo2bo$6b3o7$8b2o
$7b3o$7b3o$7b3o$7b2obo$8b3o$9bo15$10bobo$9bo$9bo3bo$9bo3bo$9bo$9bo2bo$
9b3o13$9bobo$12bo$8bo3bo$8bo3bo$12bo$9bo2bo$10b3o42$b2o$3o$2obo$b3o$2b
o8$5bobo$8bo$4bo3bo$4bo3bo$8bo$5bo2bo$6b3o7$9b2o$9b3o$9b3o$9b3o$8bob2o
$8b3o$9bo15$8bobo$11bo$7bo3bo$7bo3bo$11bo$8bo2bo$9b3o13$11bobo$10bo$
10bo3bo$10bo3bo$10bo$10bo2bo$10b3o42$2b2o$2b3o$bob2o$b3o$2bo8$7bobo$6b
o$6bo3bo$6bo3bo$6bo$6bo2bo$6b3o7$8b2o$7b3o$7b3o$7b3o$7b2obo$8b3o$9bo
15$10bobo$9bo$9bo3bo$9bo3bo$9bo$9bo2bo$9b3o13$9bobo$12bo$8bo3bo$8bo3bo
$12bo$9bo2bo$10b3o3$9b2o$9b2o!


EDIT Found 4 *WSS negative, with good enough recovery:

x = 12, y = 105, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$b3o$b2obo$2b3o$3bo8$b2o$b3o$b3o$b3o$ob2o$3o$bo42$2b2o$2b3o$bob2o$
b3o$2bo26$8bobo$11bo$7bo3bo$7bo3bo$11bo$8bo2bo$9b3o7$8b2o$8b2o!


I want to use *WSS turner for the front. So the next search will be 2-3 *WSS + glider -> *WSS 90 degree turn.
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