## (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I considered this approach. Can you build a rake on the double track interchangeably?
Ivan Fomichev

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I'm not sure - I've just been trying to assemble various components to get a big-picture sense of stumbles this construction may encounter. My initial goal was to expand the 3/2 multiplier to make 4 tracks, and use the back-end reaction to eliminate the top and second lowest, but I was running into trouble rephasing to sync the glider streams to run another multiplier on the new track.

My worry is if we only get integer multiples of a single vector in 2d space, then there's a high chance that tracks we construct won't be able to interact in the ways we have set up rakes. We'd either have to pick a standard separation and stick with it for every component, or come up with another p79 reaction that consumes a glider and emits it in a different position to work in parallel with the H (the latter of which sounds extremely unlikely..)

It's like if the caterpillar reaction (C) had shifted the blinker up 11 and left 3. It would be a much more difficult task to set up a forward rake on a pair of tracks that contained a backward rake upstream, because the adjuster pis would move the track to an undesirable separation. The key would be to find a second reaction (D) that afforded some linear combination aC+ bD with x offset zero and y offset coprime to 34.

Edit: Actually, if there was a way to collide a glider (or glider pair) from a rake with the track and perturb it cleanly, that could serve as our second reaction. Which there probably is. I'm currently at a position where I cannot operate gencols (windows, activation energy) but want to see a collection of collisions between two SE gliders and a SW glider that cleanly emit a SW glider not on the original SW glider's track. There has to be a few.

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My worries are settled: a simple 2-glider collision using one from the forward rake can also rephase the track. The combination of this and the H reaction should in theory be able to adjust the relative position of two tracks in any desired way.

`x = 523, y = 725, rule = B3/S232\$423bo\$421b2o\$377bobo42b2o\$377b2o\$378bo39\$397bo\$353bo43bobo\$352bo44b2o\$352b3o40\$372bobo\$329bo42b2o\$327b2o44bo\$328b2o39\$348bo\$347bo\$303bo43b3o\$303bobo\$303b2o39\$324bo\$322b2o\$278bobo42b2o\$278b2o\$279bo39\$298bo\$254bo43bobo\$253bo44b2o\$253b3o27\$434bo\$434bobo\$434b2o6\$472bo\$472bobo\$472b2o3\$273bobo\$230bo42b2o\$228b2o44bo\$229b2o27\$409bobo\$409b2o\$410bo6\$447bobo\$447b2o\$448bo2\$249bo\$248bo\$204bo43b3o\$204bobo\$204b2o26\$385bo\$384bo\$384b3o6\$423bo\$422bo\$422b3o3\$225bo\$223b2o\$179bobo42b2o\$179b2o\$180bo26\$361bo\$359b2o\$360b2o6\$399bo\$397b2o\$398b2o3\$199bo\$155bo43bobo\$154bo44b2o\$154b3o27\$335bo\$335bobo\$335b2o6\$373bo\$373bobo\$373b2o3\$174bobo\$131bo42b2o\$129b2o44bo\$130b2o27\$310bobo\$310b2o\$311bo6\$348bobo\$348b2o\$349bo2\$150bo\$105b2o42bo\$104bo2bo41b3o\$103b3o2\$105bobo2\$108bo\$107b2o3\$99bo\$98bo\$98b3o17\$286bo\$285bo\$285b3o6\$324bo\$323bo\$323b3o2\$116bo\$117bo5b2o\$115b3o7bo\$126bo\$123bobo\$124bo\$126bobo\$126bobo\$127bo3\$118bobo\$75bo42b2o\$73b2o44bo\$74b2o15\$115b2o\$114bobo\$115bo146bo\$260b2o\$261b2o6\$300bo\$298b2o\$299b2o11\$110b2o\$94bo14bobo\$93bo16bo\$49bo43b3o\$49bobo\$49b2o17\$236bo\$105b2o129bobo\$104bobo129b2o\$105bo5\$274bo\$274bobo\$274b2o9\$71b3o\$71bo2bo\$75bo\$72b3o2\$24bobo73b2o\$24b2o73bobo\$25bo74bo6\$62bobo\$62b2o\$63bo9\$211bobo\$211b2o\$212bo2\$95b2o\$94bobo\$95bo2\$249bobo\$249b2o\$250bo10\$83bobo\$84b2o\$84bo5\$90b2o\$89bobo\$90bo2\$38bo\$37bo\$37b3o2\$91b3o\$93bo\$92bo\$106b2o\$107b2o\$106bo\$121b2o\$120bobo64bo\$122bo63bo\$136bo49b3o\$136b2o\$135bobo2\$150b3o\$152bo\$151bo\$165b2o57bo\$166b2o55bo\$165bo57b3o\$180b2o\$179bobo\$181bo18\$14bo\$12b2o\$13b2o9\$205bobo\$205b2o\$206bo!`

I will try to put this into practice and inevitably see just how difficult it is to adjust moving streams with modular arithmetic in 2 dimensions... But I hope my next post will be able to show two an adjustment that makes the new track formed from the 3/2 multiplier usable for another interaction.

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A p158 rake, or at least an idea of one.

`x = 243, y = 481, rule = B3/S237\$196bobo\$196b2o\$197bo16\$219bobo\$219b2o\$220bo22\$172bo\$171bo\$171b3o16\$195bo\$194bo\$194b3o23\$148bo\$146b2o\$147b2o16\$171bo\$169b2o\$170b2o23\$122bo\$122bobo\$122b2o16\$145bo\$145bobo\$145b2o23\$97bobo\$97b2o\$98bo14\$166bo\$164b2o\$120bobo42b2o\$120b2o\$121bo22\$73bo\$72bo\$72b3o10\$60b3o\$59bo3bo\$64bo2\$59b2o3bo\$61b3o76bo\$94bo2bo42bobo\$94bob2o42b2o\$96b2o3\$98b2o\$98b2o4\$89bo\$89bobo\$89b2o11\$69bo\$67bobo\$68b2o16\$108bo6b2o\$106bobo5bo2bo\$107b2o5bo2bo\$114bo\$117bo\$115b3o\$117b2o\$118bo3\$110bo\$108b2o\$64bobo42b2o\$64b2o\$65bo11\$82bobo\$83b2o\$83bo\$106b2o\$105bobo\$106bo21\$101b2o\$100bobo\$84bo16bo\$40bo43bobo\$39bo44b2o\$39b3o11\$98bo\$99bo\$97b3o5\$96b2o\$95bobo\$96bo15\$62b3o\$62bo2bo\$62bo2bo\$63bo2bo\$63b3o\$64b2o\$16bo74b2o\$14b2o74bobo\$15b2o74bo6\$54bo\$52b2o\$53b2o3\$112bo\$113b2o\$112b2o8\$86b2o\$85bobo\$86bo14\$75bo\$76b2o\$75b2o5\$81b2o\$80bobo\$81bo3\$28bo\$28bobo\$28b2o53b2o\$82bobo\$84bo\$98bo29bo\$98b2o26bobo\$97bobo27b2o2\$112b3o\$114bo\$113bo\$127b2o\$128b2o\$127bo29\$3bobo\$3b2o\$4bo!`

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I've been trying to make p158 elements without a filter. Gliders are plentiful and glider reactions are convenient. We don't need a filter and the catch-and-throw technology.

Here's a p158 helix MWSS rake that has many missing ends but to me shows promise.
`x = 1809, y = 1465, rule = B3/S2337\$466bo\$467bo\$465b3o41\$480bo\$481b2o\$356bo123b2o\$354bobo\$355b2o6\$464bobo\$465b2o\$465bo31\$496bo\$494bobo\$369bobo123b2o\$370b2o\$370bo5\$480bo\$481bo\$479b3o32\$509bobo\$385bo124b2o\$386bo123bo\$384b3o6\$494bo\$495b2o\$494b2o14\$690bobo\$690b2o\$691bo15\$525bo\$526bo\$399bo124b3o\$400b2o\$399b2o6\$510bo\$508bobo\$509b2o13\$666bo\$665bo\$665b3o16\$539bo157bo\$540b2o154bo\$415bo123b2o155b3o\$413bobo\$414b2o5\$245bobo\$246b2o275bobo\$246bo277b2o\$524bo13\$642bo\$640b2o\$641b2o14\$601bo\$600bobo\$555bo44b2o71bo\$553bobo115b2o\$210bobo215bobo123b2o116b2o\$211b2o216b2o\$211bo217bo4\$261bo449bo\$262bo276bo169b2o\$260b3o277bo169b2o\$538b3o8\$620bo\$619b3o\$596bo21b2o2bo\$595bobo21b5o\$595b2o22b2o2bo\$620bo2bo\$620bobo9\$610bo\$609bo\$609b3o7\$568bobo76bo\$226bo217bo124b2o20bo55bobo\$227bo217bo123bo20bobo54b2o\$225b3o215b3o144b2o5\$275bo56bobo350bo\$276b2o55b2o218bo131bobo\$275b2o56bo220b2o129b2o\$553b2o11\$633bo\$634bo\$586bo45b3o\$585bobo\$585b2o8\$586bo\$584b2o\$585b2o6\$584bo\$585bo36bobo\$240bo217bo124b3o36b2o\$241b2o216b2o162bo\$240b2o216b2o\$581bo\$580bobo\$580b2o\$348bo\$291bo57bo310bobo\$289bobo55b3o219bo90b2o\$290b2o275bobo91bo\$568b2o11\$647bo\$648b2o\$647b2o3\$576bo\$575bobo\$575b2o3\$603bo\$602b3o\$207bobo350bo40bo2b2o\$208b2o350bobo38b4o\$208bo351b2o42bobo\$604bo2bo\$604b3o\$603bobo\$603bobo\$603b3o\$598bo\$599b2o\$256bo217bo123b2o\$254bobo215bobo\$255b2o216b2o4\$362bo208bo64bo\$304bobo56b2o205bobo18b2o42bo\$305b2o55b2o206b2o10bobo5bo2bo41b3o\$305bo277b2o4b3o\$583bo\$591bobo2\$594bo\$593b2o3\$585bo\$584bo\$584b3o2\$663bo\$661bobo\$662b2o6\$566bo\$565bobo\$565b2o\$223bo\$224bo310bobo\$222b3o310b2o\$536bo8\$269bobo215bobo\$270b2o216b2o\$270bo217bo4\$320bo57bo233bo\$321bo54bobo231b2o\$319b3o55b2o232b2o\$561bo\$560bobo\$560b2o6\$561bo\$559b2o\$560b2o2\$676bobo\$677b2o\$677bo4\$153bo\$154b2o\$153b2o3\$237bo273bo44bo\$238b2o270bo44bobo\$237b2o271b3o42b2o8\$285bo217bo\$286bo217bo\$284b3o215b3o5\$334bo56bobo192bo\$335b2o55b2o192bobo\$334b2o56bo193b2o4\$551bo\$550bobo\$550b2o3\$535bo\$535bobo\$535b2o\$692bo\$693bo\$691b3o5\$169bo\$167bobo\$168b2o3\$253bo233bo\$251bobo231b2o\$252b2o232b2o\$546bo\$545bobo\$545b2o5\$299bo217bo\$300b2o216b2o\$299b2o216b2o4\$407bo\$350bo57bo152bobo\$348bobo55b3o152b2o\$349b2o211bo7\$541bo\$540bobo\$510bobo27b2o\$510b2o\$511bo\$706bo\$707b2o\$706b2o3\$867bo\$866bo\$182bobo681b3o\$183b2o\$183bo3\$266bobo192bo\$267b2o192bobo\$267bo193b2o4\$536bo\$535bobo\$535b2o2\$315bo217bo\$313bobo215bobo\$314b2o216b2o450bo\$983bobo\$983b2o2\$421bo115bo\$363bobo56b2o112bo\$364b2o55b2o113b3o\$364bo\$1058bo\$1058bobo\$1058b2o5\$486bo\$485bo\$485b3o43bo\$530bobo\$530b2o190bo\$720bobo\$721b2o2\$979bo\$843bo134bobo\$198bo642b2o135b2o\$199bo642b2o\$197b3o3\$282bo\$283bo152bobo\$281b3o152b2o\$437bo4\$28bo\$29b2o\$28b2o\$526bo\$328bobo194bobo18bobo\$329b2o194b2o20b2o\$329bo217bo3\$974bo\$379bo57bo75bo459bobo\$380bo54bobo73b2o460b2o\$378b3o55b2o74b2o2\$1033bobo\$1033b2o\$1034bo5\$462bo\$460b2o\$461b2o2\$735bobo\$521bo214b2o\$520bobo213bo\$520b2o2\$817bo\$212bo604bobo\$213b2o602b2o150bo\$212b2o754bobo\$968b2o2\$296bo115bo\$297b2o112bo\$296b2o113b3o5\$44bo\$42bobo\$43b2o\$344bo217bo\$345bo217bo\$343b3o215b3o\$516bo\$515bobo\$515b2o2\$393bo56bobo34bo\$394b2o55b2o34bobo553bo\$393b2o56bo35b2o475bo77bo\$963bobo43bo32b3o\$963b2o43bo\$1008b3o6\$436bo\$436bobo\$436b2o\$751bo\$752bo\$750b3o3\$511bo\$510bobo279bobo\$228bo281b2o280b2o\$226bobo564bo\$227b2o2\$959bo\$312bo75bo569bobo\$310bobo73b2o570b2o\$311b2o74b2o\$468b3o\$468bo2bo\$466bo4bo2\$57bobo406bo\$58b2o407bo\$58bo409b2obo\$358bo110bo2bo103bo\$359b2o108b2o106b2o\$358b2o110bo2bo102b2o\$473bo\$469bo\$472bo\$466bo2b3o34bo\$409bo57bo37bobo\$407bobo55b3o37b2o512bo\$408b2o607b2o\$985bo32b2o\$983b2o\$954bo29b2o\$953bobo\$953b2o2\$457bo\$455b2o\$411bobo42b2o\$411b2o\$412bo\$765bo\$766b2o\$765b2o3\$768bo\$767bo\$241bobo523b3o\$242b2o257bo\$242bo257bobo\$500b2o2\$325bobo34bo\$326b2o34bobo270bo\$326bo35b2o272bo312bo\$634b3o311bobo\$948b2o2\$73bo\$74bo\$72b3o2\$374bo217bo\$372bobo215bobo\$373b2o216b2o5\$422bobo\$423b2o568bo\$423bo72bo496bobo\$495bobo461bo33b2o\$495b2o462bobo\$959b2o3\$944bo\$431bo511bobo\$387bo43bobo509b2o\$386bo44b2o\$343b3o40b3o\$343bo2bo\$341bo4bo434bo\$779bobo\$341bo438b2o\$342bo\$343b2obo\$344bo2bo396bo\$257bo86b2o396b2o\$258bo86bo2bo394b2o\$256b3o89bo\$344bo\$347bo\$341bo2b3o144bo\$342bo147bobo\$340b3o147b2o4\$939bo\$87bo850bobo\$88b2o848b2o\$87b2o\$332bo\$330b2o55bobo215bobo\$331b2o55b2o216b2o\$388bo217bo4\$438bo\$439bo\$437b3o528bobo\$968b2o\$934bobo32bo\$934b2o\$486bo448bo\$485bobo\$485b2o2\$406bobo\$363bo42b2o\$361b2o44bo526bo\$362b2o569bobo\$933b2o\$794bobo\$795b2o\$795bo3\$718bo\$271bo446bobo\$272b2o444b2o\$271b2o5\$665bo\$481bo181bobo\$480bobo181b2o\$480b2o2\$103bo\$101bobo\$102b2o825bo\$304bo98bo217bo306bobo\$303bob2o97bo217bo305b2o\$305b2o95b3o215b3o\$304b3o2\$308b2o\$307b3o\$452bo\$453b2o489bo\$300bo151b2o489bo\$299bo610bo32b3o\$299b3o607bo\$341bo567b3o\$340b3o\$339b2o2bo\$340b5o\$340b2o2bo37bo93bo\$341bo2bo36bo93bobo\$341bobo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Missing ends: The sideways LWSS rake (nontrivial, I know)
One p158 input stream that doesn't even pass through..
Support for all the glider and boat streams.

I think maybe having a double track upstream like the one I posted earlier would be the easiest way to support a large number of inputs, because the double track can rephase itself.

And here's another glider reaction that can produce pairs of p158 glider streams, this time without the extra stuff to clean up.
`x = 453, y = 445, rule = B3/S2353\$83bo\$81bobo\$82b2o14\$405bo\$404bo\$404b3o25\$96bobo\$97b2o\$97bo14\$381bo\$379b2o\$380b2o24\$112bo\$113bo\$111b3o15\$355bo\$355bobo\$355b2o24\$126bo\$127b2o\$126b2o15\$330bobo\$330b2o\$331bo24\$142bo\$140bobo\$141b2o14\$306bo\$305bo\$305b3o25\$155bobo\$156b2o\$156bo14\$282bo\$280b2o\$281b2o24\$171bo\$172bo\$170b3o15\$256bo\$256bobo\$256b2o24\$185bo\$186b2o\$185b2o15\$231bobo\$231b2o\$232bo16\$74b2o\$75b2o\$74bo\$89b2o\$88bobo\$90bo\$104bo\$104b2o\$103bobo95bo\$199bobo\$118b3o79b2o\$120bo\$119bo\$133b2o\$134b2o\$133bo\$148b2o\$147bobo\$149bo\$163bo\$163b2o\$162bobo2\$177b3o\$179bo27bo\$178bo27bo\$192b2o12b3o\$193b2o\$192bo\$207b2o\$206bobo\$208bo!`

Also, keeping with codeholic's original drawing, I think we will want to make large rake elements that begin and end with two glider streams and create two new ones far to the right, destroying the original. It will cut down the eventual size. I tried to visualize this by making two new streams in the far right of my large rake. I didn't bother to destroy the original though..

I think a fantastic step in this would be to find an appropriate *WSS reaction that takes a p158 glider and produces two pairs of p79 gliders to start the ship off. But I'm aware this is still miles from complete.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This could be the full front of the ship, I managed to make two tracks from the original helix plus p79 LWSS. The sideways gliders are all suppressed. Each step of the helix is synthesizable, but HWSS side guns will be the hard part.

`x = 525, y = 1197, rule = B3/S2329\$138b2o\$139b2o\$138bo3\$130bo\$130bo\$127bob2o23bo\$127bobo23b3o\$127b3o22b2obo\$152b3o\$132bo20b2o\$130b2o\$131b2o\$162bo\$161b3o\$161bob2o\$162b3o\$154b3o5b2o\$121b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$121bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$121bo17bo16bo\$121bo3bo13bo13bobo\$121bo18bobo\$122bobo5\$139bo\$138b3o\$137b2obo\$137b3o\$132bo5b2o\$131b3o\$131bob2o\$132b3o5bo\$132b2o5b3o\$139bob2o\$140b3o\$140b2o22bo\$163b3o\$163bob2o\$164b3o\$164b2o3\$172bo\$171b3o\$170b2obo\$170b3o\$164b3o4b2o\$131b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$130bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$133bo17bo12bo\$129bo3bo17bo13bobo\$133bo14bobo\$130bobo2\$106bo\$105bobo\$105bo2bo\$106b2o41bo\$148b3o\$148bob2o\$149b3o\$142bo6b2o\$141b3o\$140b2obo\$140b3o7bo\$99bo41b2o6b3o\$98bobo47b2obo\$97b2ob2o46b3o\$98bo2bo47b2o23bo\$98bo3bo70b3o\$98bo73b2obo\$172b3o\$173b2o\$98b2o\$99bo\$182bo\$96bo84b3o\$96bob2ob2o78bob2o\$95b2ob2ob2o79b3o\$96bobo75b3o5b2o\$97bo43b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$141bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$141bo17bo16bo\$141bo3bo13bo13bobo\$141bo18bobo\$142bobo3\$103bo\$104b2o\$103b2o54bo\$158b3o\$157b2obo\$157b3o\$152bo5b2o\$151b3o\$151bob2o\$152b3o5bo\$152b2o5b3o\$108bo50bob2o\$82bo24b3o50b3o\$82bobo22bob2o49b2o22bo\$82b2o24b3o72b3o\$108b2o73bob2o\$184b3o\$184b2o3\$192bo\$191b3o\$190b2obo\$190b3o\$184b3o4b2o\$151b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$150bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$102bo50bo17bo12bo\$101bobo8b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$101bobo8bo2bo37bo14bobo\$102bo9bo37bobo\$112bo\$113bobo3\$169bo\$168b3o\$94b3o71bob2o\$95bo73b3o\$95b3o64bo6b2o\$161b3o\$160b2obo\$160b3o7bo\$161b2o6b3o\$118bo49b2obo\$117b3o48b3o\$116b2obo49b2o23bo\$93bobo20b3o74b3o\$93bobo21b2o73b2obo\$192b3o\$96bo96b2o3\$202bo\$92bobo106b3o\$57bobo33bo107bob2o\$57b2o143b3o\$58bo135b3o5b2o\$161b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$161bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$161bo17bo16bo\$122b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$121bo2bo36bo18bobo\$100bobo21bo37bobo\$101b2o21bo\$101bo19bobo3\$179bo\$178b3o\$177b2obo\$177b3o\$172bo5b2o\$171b3o\$77bo93bob2o\$76bo95b3o5bo\$76b3o93b2o5b3o\$128bo50bob2o\$127b3o50b3o\$127bob2o49b2o22bo\$128b3o72b3o\$128b2o73bob2o\$204b3o\$204b2o3\$212bo\$211b3o\$210b2obo\$210b3o\$204b3o4b2o\$171b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$170bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$173bo17bo12bo\$132b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$132bo2bo37bo14bobo\$132bo37bobo\$33bo98bo\$32bo100bobo\$32b3o2\$189bo\$188b3o\$188bob2o\$189b3o\$116bo65bo6b2o\$117bo63b3o\$115b3o62b2obo\$180b3o7bo\$181b2o6b3o\$138bo49b2obo\$137b3o48b3o\$136b2obo49b2o23bo\$136b3o74b3o\$137b2o73b2obo\$212b3o\$213b2o3\$222bo\$221b3o\$221bob2o\$222b3o\$214b3o5b2o\$181b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$181bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$181bo17bo16bo\$142b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$141bo2bo36bo18bobo\$144bo37bobo\$144bo\$141bobo3\$199bo\$198b3o\$197b2obo\$197b3o\$192bo5b2o\$191b3o\$191bob2o\$192b3o5bo\$192b2o5b3o\$148bo50bob2o\$147b3o50b3o\$147bob2o49b2o22bo\$148b3o72b3o\$148b2o73bob2o\$130bo93b3o\$131b2o91b2o\$130b2o2\$232bo\$231b3o\$230b2obo\$230b3o\$224b3o4b2o\$191b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$190bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$193bo17bo12bo\$152b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$152bo2bo37bo14bobo\$152bo37bobo\$152bo\$153bobo3\$209bo\$208b3o\$208bob2o\$209b3o\$202bo6b2o\$201b3o\$200b2obo\$200b3o7bo\$201b2o6b3o\$158bo49b2obo\$157b3o48b3o\$156b2obo49b2o23bo\$156b3o74b3o\$157b2o73b2obo\$232b3o\$233b2o3\$242bo\$241b3o\$241bob2o\$242b3o\$234b3o5b2o\$201b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$146bo54bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$144bobo54bo17bo16bo\$145b2o15b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$161bo2bo36bo18bobo\$164bo37bobo\$164bo\$161bobo3\$219bo\$218b3o\$217b2obo\$217b3o\$212bo5b2o\$211b3o\$211bob2o\$212b3o5bo\$212b2o5b3o\$168bo50bob2o\$167b3o50b3o\$167bob2o49b2o22bo\$168b3o72b3o\$168b2o73bob2o\$244b3o\$244b2o3\$252bo\$251b3o\$250b2obo\$250b3o\$244b3o4b2o\$211b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$210bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$213bo17bo12bo\$172b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$172bo2bo37bo14bobo\$172bo37bobo\$172bo\$173bobo3\$229bo\$159bobo66b3o\$160b2o66bob2o\$160bo68b3o\$222bo6b2o\$221b3o\$220b2obo\$220b3o7bo\$221b2o6b3o\$178bo49b2obo\$177b3o48b3o\$176b2obo49b2o23bo\$176b3o74b3o\$177b2o73b2obo\$252b3o\$253b2o3\$262bo\$261b3o\$261bob2o\$262b3o\$254b3o5b2o\$221b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$221bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$221bo17bo16bo\$182b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$181bo2bo36bo18bobo\$184bo37bobo\$184bo\$181bobo3\$239bo\$238b3o\$237b2obo\$237b3o\$232bo5b2o\$231b3o\$231bob2o\$232b3o5bo\$232b2o5b3o\$188bo50bob2o\$175bo11b3o50b3o\$176bo10bob2o49b2o22bo\$174b3o11b3o72b3o\$188b2o73bob2o\$264b3o\$264b2o3\$272bo\$271b3o\$270b2obo\$270b3o\$264b3o4b2o\$231b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$230bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$233bo17bo12bo\$192b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$192bo2bo37bo14bobo\$192bo37bobo\$192bo\$193bobo3\$249bo\$248b3o\$248bob2o\$249b3o\$242bo6b2o\$241b3o\$240b2obo\$240b3o7bo\$241b2o6b3o\$198bo49b2obo\$197b3o48b3o\$196b2obo49b2o23bo\$196b3o74b3o\$197b2o73b2obo\$272b3o\$273b2o3\$282bo\$281b3o\$189bo91bob2o\$190b2o90b3o\$189b2o83b3o5b2o\$241b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$241bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$241bo17bo16bo\$202b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$201bo2bo36bo18bobo\$204bo37bobo\$204bo\$201bobo3\$259bo\$258b3o\$257b2obo\$257b3o\$252bo5b2o\$251b3o\$251bob2o\$252b3o5bo\$252b2o5b3o\$208bo50bob2o\$207b3o50b3o\$207bob2o49b2o22bo\$208b3o72b3o\$208b2o73bob2o\$284b3o\$284b2o3\$292bo\$291b3o\$290b2obo\$290b3o\$284b3o4b2o\$251b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$250bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$253bo17bo12bo\$212b3o34bo3bo17bo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3o4b2o\$409b3o12bo2bo\$408bo2bo12bo\$411bo12bo\$411bo13bobo\$408bobo9\$360b2o\$359bobo\$361bo2\$348bo6b2o53bo\$348b2o4bobo52b3o\$347bobo6bo51b2obo\$389b3o16b3o\$391bo17b2o23bo\$390bo42b3o\$432b2obo\$377b2o5b3o45b3o\$378b2o6bo46b2o\$377bo7bo2\$442bo\$441b3o\$441bob2o\$442b3o\$434b3o5b2o\$419b3o11bo2bo\$419bo2bo13bo\$419bo16bo\$419bo13bobo\$420bobo5\$378b2o\$374b4ob2o\$374b6o\$375b4o6\$343b2o\$341bo4bo\$347bo\$341bo5bo96bo\$342b6o95b3o\$443bob2o\$444b3o\$444b2o3\$452bo\$380b2o69b3o\$381b2o67b2obo\$380bo69b3o\$444b3o4b2o\$368b2o5b2o52b3o12bo2bo\$367bobo6b2o50bo2bo12bo\$369bo5bo34bo20bo12bo\$410b2o19bo13bobo\$409bobo16bobo2\$405bo\$397b3o5b2o\$399bo4bobo\$398bo12\$454bo\$453b3o\$452b2obo\$452b3o\$453b2o3\$462bo\$461b3o\$461bob2o\$355b4o103b3o\$354b6o94b3o5b2o\$354b4ob2o50b6o36bo2bo\$358b2o50bo5bo39bo\$416bo39bo\$410bo4bo37bobo\$412b2o15\$415b3o\$417bo\$416bo47bo\$463b3o\$403b2o5b3o50bob2o\$404b2o6bo51b3o\$403bo7bo33b2o17b2o\$444bobo\$446bo\$472bo\$433bo6b2o29b3o\$433b2o4bobo28b2obo\$432bobo6bo28b3o\$464b3o4b2o\$464bo2bo\$464bo\$464bo\$465bobo9\$427b2o\$423b4ob2o\$423b6o\$424b4o12\$383b2o\$381bo4bo95bo\$387bo93b3o\$381bo5bo39b2o52bob2o\$382b6o40b2o52b3o\$427bo46b3o5b2o\$473bo2bo\$415b2o5b2o52bo\$414bobo6b2o51bo\$416bo5bo34bo15bobo\$457b2o\$456bobo2\$452bo\$444b3o5b2o\$446bo4bobo\$445bo18\$492bo\$491b3o\$490b2obo\$490b3o\$491b2o10\$451b6o\$450bo5bo\$456bo\$450bo4bo\$452b2o14\$454b3o\$456bo45bo\$455bo45b3o\$501bob2o\$442b2o5b3o50b3o\$443b2o6bo50b2o\$442bo7bo33b2o\$483bobo\$485bo2\$472bo6b2o\$472b2o4bobo\$471bobo6bo!`

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"Freezing" and "thawing" the glider streams with reactions such as the following seems to me a much easier way to rephase the track. Still life is p1, much nicer than p4 gliders, so the H can eat them at any time.

`x = 216, y = 328, rule = B3/S23210bobo\$210b2o\$211bo2\$162bobo\$162b2o\$163bo36\$186bo\$185bo\$185b3o2\$138bo\$137bo\$137b3o37\$162bo\$160b2o\$161b2o2\$114bo\$112b2o\$113b2o37\$136bo\$136bobo\$136b2o2\$88bo\$88bobo\$88b2o37\$111bobo\$111b2o\$112bo2\$63bobo\$63b2o\$64bo6\$52bobo\$52bo2bo\$51bo3b2o\$51bo2\$51bo2b3o\$51b2o\$53b3o\$53b3o22\$87bo\$86bo\$61bo24b3o\$62b2o\$61b2o\$37bo\$36b3o\$35b2o2bo2\$39b2o\$39b2o\$38bo2bo\$37b3o11\$26bo\$25bo\$25b3o8\$74bo\$73bobo\$73bobo\$74bo3\$68b2o\$67bo2bo\$68b2o13\$51bo\$52bo\$50b3o16bo\$68bobo\$68bobo\$69bo3\$63b2o\$62bo2bo\$63b2o2\$2bo\$2o\$b2o11\$64bo\$63bobo\$63bobo\$64bo20\$59bo\$58bobo\$58bobo\$59bo7\$51b3o\$52bo\$52b3o!`

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A more developed front:
`x = 861, y = 1095, rule = 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And here's a three-track sequence that cleanly leaves beehives to be burned at leisure. Since there is only one H on each track nothing needs to be rephased, so they can be left close together.

`x = 160, y = 201, rule = B3/S233\$111bo\$109b2o\$110b2o8\$155bo\$155bobo\$131bo23b2o\$131bobo\$131b2o29\$85bo\$85bobo\$85b2o8\$130bobo\$130b2o\$106bobo22bo\$106b2o\$107bo29\$60bobo\$60b2o\$61bo6\$53b3o\$55bo50bo\$53b3o49bo\$82bo22b3o\$54bo26bo\$52b3o26b3o\$50b3o\$51b2o12\$68bo\$67b3o\$67b3o2\$67b4o\$66b5o\$66b2obo3\$67b2o\$66bo2\$65bobo2bo\$60bo4bob3obo\$61b2ob3ob2obo\$60b2o3bobo\$65b3o\$66bo7\$81b2o\$29bo44bo4bo\$29bobo40bobo4b3o\$29b2o42b2o6b2o3\$83b2o\$83b2o4\$74bobo\$74b2o\$50bobo22bo\$50b2o\$51bo29\$4bobo\$4b2o\$5bo7\$50bo\$49bo\$26bo22b3o\$25bo\$25b3o!`

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Terminology time!
I think it will be incredibly useful to have the terminology to refer to glider streams in ways that indicate their usability. All glider streams referred to in this post are moving SW.

Over 316 generations, the gliders move 79 cells downward, the ship moves 92 cells upward. This gives 171 cells. Meanwhile, the gliders also move 79 cells to the left, while the ship moves 20 cells to the right, for 99 cells horizontally.

Given two streams, moving either glider stream horizontally by 2 cells doesn't change the way any sideways gliders from the upper will interact with the lower. This gives us a horizontal parity distinction. However, relative to a fixed glider on one stream, the set of identical gliders on the other stream alternate between even and odd horizontal displacement. So I propose we refer to streams by the vertical number of cells between a glider on the left stream up to the nearest identical glider on the right stream that has the same horizontal parity. This will be at most the 8th glider up, and thus gives 342 possibilities, numbered 0-341.

Bad news: in this terminology, the H reaction rephases a glider stream by -95.
95 = 5 * 19
342 = 18 * 19.
THOSE NUMBERS ARE NOT RELATIVELY PRIME >:( There are 19 equivalence classes of glider streams, for which no number of H reactions will bring a stream to a new equivalence class. However, there is hope! Beehives are wondrous things. Any trail of beehives (or other appropriate stills) can be burned at leisure. It's not perfect: each beehive trail has an associated parity. It will either burn only even tracks or only odd tracks. But since the H reaction rephases by -95, it follows that at most 1 extra H is necessary to produce a desired track from beehives.

This approach declared streams that differ by an even horizontal displacement equivalent, but that's not fully true. SW and SE gliders will have the same impact parameter, but any NE or NW glider will have a different impact parameter. So we will have to take care with forward rakes.

Onto discussion of what track the reactions we've found are running on. Input track listed, output only listed if differing mod 19.

3/2 multiplier: The beehive/boat combination happens on track 45. (7 mod 19)
NE forward rake: The boat reaction happens on track 87. (11 mod 19)
NW forward rake: The pair of blocks that lead to NW gliders happens on track 340. (17 mod 19)
NW kickback: ExtremeEnthusiast's back end happens on track 169. (17 mod 19)
NE kickback: A stream can be kicked back to NE gliders on track 263. (16 mod 19)
Suppressing reactions: Track 2 (2 mod 19) and track 302 (17 mod 19)
Teardrop reaction: Freezes track 4 to beehives (4 mod 19)
Beehive laying reaction: Runs on track 31 (12 mod 19), requires suppression to be clean.
TL->beehive below: Input track 217 (8 mod 19), output track 21 (2 mod 19)
`x = 247, y = 350, rule = B3/S232\$241bo\$241bobo\$241b2o\$182bo\$180b2o\$181b2o38\$216bobo\$216b2o\$217bo\$156bo\$156bobo\$156b2o37\$192bo\$191bo\$191b3o2\$131bobo\$131b2o\$132bo15\$117bo\$116bobo\$115b2ob2o\$116bo2bo\$116bo3bo\$116bo3\$116b2o\$117bo2\$114bo\$114bob2ob2o\$113b2ob2ob2o\$114bobo\$115bo7\$168bo\$121bo44b2o\$122b2o43b2o\$121b2o10\$100bo\$100bobo\$100b2o28\$142bo\$137bo4bobo\$135bobo4b2o\$136b2o7\$131bo\$131bo\$131bo\$75bobo\$75b2o50b3o3b3o\$76bo\$131bo\$131bo\$131bo7\$123bo\$123bobo\$123b2o7\$125b3o2\$123bo5bo\$123bo5bo\$123bo5bo2\$125b3o15\$51bo\$50bo70bo\$50b3o68bo\$121bo2\$117b3o3b3o2\$121bo\$121bo\$121bo4\$98bobo\$98b2o\$99bo10\$115b3o2\$113bo5bo\$113bo5bo\$113bo5bo\$84bo\$83bobo29b3o\$82b2ob2o\$83bo2bo\$83bo3bo\$83bo3\$83b2o\$84bo2\$81bo\$81bob2ob2o\$27bo52b2ob2ob2o\$25b2o54bobo\$26b2o54bo2\$111bo\$111bo\$111bo2\$107b3o3b3o2\$88bo22bo\$89b2o20bo\$88b2o21bo10\$67bo\$67bobo\$67b2o4\$105b3o2\$103bo5bo\$103bo5bo\$103bo5bo2\$105b3o9\$bo\$bobo\$b2o2\$98b3o\$95b5ob2o\$94bobo4b2o\$94bobobo2bo\$95bob2o2bo\$99b2o\$99bo4b3o12\$42bobo\$42b2o\$43bo7\$97bo\$96bobo\$96bobo\$97bo!`

Other notes:
The NE rake + stream reaction I said would be helpful rephases a track by +46 (+8 mod 19). It's much more expensive to pull off though, because the forward rake is nontrivial to construct and hard to repeat.

There is a lot more freedom when considering the interactions between a NW or NE rake and SE gliders - given a track capable of producing a NE rake, we can put any SE glider stream through any 90 degree reaction, up to parity. That's how I kicked back the SE gliders in my more developed front. I would have made beehives but the parity was wrong.

Finding more repeatable forward rakes is a high priority, I say. Also, if anyone wants to look for a helix that's cheaper by laying beehives instead of gliders that would be pretty nice. It could even be p79, if it were LWSS only. (The only possible syntheses for MWSS break down when trying to merge two p158 streams into one p79 stream - I haven't tried HWSS but assume it's no easier than MWSS).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While southward glider collisions only depend on which track of 342 is running, many things require control horizontally as well. I was trying to use the beehive laying reaction to make the proper third track to suppress the gliders afterward, but as it turns out, the easiest creation of the track makes gliders crash into any beehives the first reaction sets down!

When burning beehives, since they are placed every (23,5), we only get control of the first gliders' horizontal position in steps of 18. That is, if we can create track N at a horizontal distance x, then we can also create it at any horizontal distance x + 18m. But if the track is crashing into stills, that will change nothing, because the (1,1) gliders will simply run into the next still instead.

Each H moves a possible stream left by 3 cells. So if you burn track N + 190 instead, and then use 2H to bring it to track N, it moves the horizontal stream to the left by 6. The good news is this can help avoid stills, but since we again have two numbers not relatively prime, it won't fix everything. I'm trying to make a p158 LWSS side rake on the 31, 2 trio I have been able to create from the helix, and I have everything except the source for a SW glider stream. The only beehives I can lay are 2 cells too far to the right, which can't be fixed with H reactions. (Because the beehive-laying track itself uses H reactions, it can only lay tracks that differ by 3 horizontally).

`x = 303, y = 433, rule = B3/S232\$226bo\$224b2o\$225b2o8\$280bo\$280bobo\$258bo21b2o\$258bobo\$258b2o29\$200bo\$200bobo\$200b2o8\$255bobo\$255b2o\$233bobo20bo\$233b2o\$234bo15\$181b3o\$181bo2bo\$179bo4bo2\$179bo\$180bo\$181b2obo\$182bo2bo\$182b2o\$183bo2bo\$186bo\$182bo\$185bo\$182b3o10\$170bo60bo\$168b2o60bo\$169b2o38bo20b3o\$208bo\$208b3o5\$203b2o\$203bobo\$205bo\$203bobo\$202bo\$202bobo\$202bo\$201bo12\$212b3o\$198bo12bo2bo\$197bobo11b2obo\$197bobo\$198bo2\$211b2o\$211b4o\$212bo2bo\$213bobo\$213bobo3\$215bo\$212bo2bo\$142bo68b5o\$141bob2o64bo2bo\$143b2o65b2o\$142b3o2\$146b2o\$145b3o3\$138bo54bo\$137bo54bobo4bobo\$137b3o52bobo4b2o\$177bobo13bo6bo\$177b2o\$178bo17\$121b3o\$120bo2bo38bo25bo\$124bo36b3o23bobo\$120b2o39bob2o22bobo\$120b2o3bo34b2o26bo\$125bo34b2o\$123bo36b2o\$121b3o40bo\$121b2o40b2o\$121bo31bo7bobo\$122b2o30bo5bo2bo\$122bobo27b3o6bobo\$121bo3bo35b3o\$122b2o37b2obo\$161bo2bo\$162bo4\$126bo\$124bobo\$125b2o38bo8bo\$166b2o6b2o\$165b2o7b3o\$174b2o7bo\$174b2o6bobo\$175bo6bobo\$176bobo4bo\$177bo3\$106bobo59bo\$106b2o60bobo\$107bo38bo21b2o\$146bobo123bo\$146b2o124bobo\$272b2o\$155bo\$154bobo\$154bobo\$155bo7\$178bo\$177bobo\$177bobo\$178bo\$175bo\$174b3o\$173bo2b2o\$173b3obo\$176b2o2\$172bo\$171bo\$171b3o\$150bo\$149bobo\$139bobo7bobo\$140b2o8bo\$140bo9\$82bo\$81bo61bobo\$81b3o59b2o\$121bobo20bo\$121b2o124bobo\$122bo124b2o\$248bo\$117b3o\$116bo2bo\$116b2o2bo11bobo\$119b2o11bo2bo9bo\$131bo3b2o7bobo\$116bo14bo12bobo\$114b2o29bo\$115b2o14bo2b3o\$131b2o50bo\$133b3o48bo\$133b3o46b3o5\$153b2o\$154b2o\$153bo\$168b2o\$167bobo\$169bo16\$58bo66bo\$56b2o68b2o\$57b2o66b2o\$223bo\$183b2o37bo\$183b2o37b3o5\$112bo\$112bobo\$90bo21b2o\$90bobo\$90b2o29\$32bo108bo\$32bobo104bobo\$32b2o106b2o\$199bo\$197b2o\$198b2o2\$173b2o\$173b2o2\$87bobo\$87b2o\$65bobo20bo\$65b2o\$66bo29\$7bobo144bobo\$7b2o146b2o\$8bo146bo\$173bo\$173bobo\$173b2o4\$63bo\$62bo100b2o\$41bo20b3o98b2o\$40bo\$40b3o39\$39bo\$37b2o\$17bo20b2o\$15b2o203b2o\$16b2o201b4o\$219b2ob2o18bo\$221b2o20bo\$241b3o!`

It gets worse.. The 2g->TL+g reaction repositions a stream by 9, and the 180 glider collision that outputs a glider repositions by 6.

We need a g+still->beehive reaction, ideally a slow (N*g)+beehive->beehive reaction that puts the beehive at a different place. Otherwise I will look into double kickback reactions, but that requires coordinating 3 things, which could in turn require some form of repositioning. Alternatively we could try to make 3 different 31 tracks that each service a different congruence class mod 3, but that might require some strange support to initialize.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There's always this: TL intermediate, puts the beehive up 3 and left 5. Taking mod (1,1) for gliders we get a horizontal shift of 2! And it's almost completely slow, just requires timing around the p2 TL.

`x = 29, y = 26, rule = B3/S23\$2bo\$3b2o\$2b2o16\$22bo\$23bo\$21b3o\$26bo\$25bobo\$25bobo\$26bo!`

And the same reaction from a different angle gives us a horizontal shift of 4.

`x = 19, y = 26, rule = B3/S23\$17bo\$15b2o\$16b2o16\$bo\$2bo\$3o\$5bo\$4bobo\$4bobo\$5bo!`

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit: Consolidated all these posts into one big one. Not sure which is preferable but I've been the only one posting for a while and usually anti-double-posting etiquette says to edit rather than reply.
Last edited by biggiemac on October 3rd, 2014, 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I can't edit that one anymore, 60k character cap has been reached! I'll keep adding to one post at a time until there are other people responding. Anyway..

Trying to use the TL trick to set up beehives as I need them. Not completely optimized but close I think. It repositions beehives by 4 to the right. Next up will be a complete p158 LWSS side rake.

`x = 273, y = 581, rule = B3/S23x = 223, y = 439, rule = B3/S237\$184bobo\$184b2o\$185bo6\$177b3o\$179bo\$177b3o\$218bo\$178bo38bo\$176b3o38b3o\$174b3o\$175b2o25\$184bo\$185b2o\$184b2o3\$197b3o\$196bo2bo\$196b2obo\$200b2o\$200b2o\$199bo2bo\$198bo\$153bo44b3o15bo\$153bobo43bo14b2o\$153b2o60b2o5\$209b2o\$209b2o\$211bo\$209b3o\$208bobo\$186bobo20b2o\$186b2o20bo\$187bo20bo\$206bo5\$191bo\$190bobo\$190bobo\$191bo6\$134b3o\$134bo2bo\$132bo4bo2\$132bo\$133bo\$134b2obo\$135bo2bo\$135b2o\$136bo2bo\$139bo\$135bo\$138bo\$135b3o\$186bo\$185bobo\$185bobo\$186bo6\$123bo60bo\$121b2o60bo\$122b2o38bo20b3o\$161bo\$161b3o5\$156b2o\$156bobo\$158bo\$156bobo\$155bo\$155bobo23bo\$155bo24bobo\$154bo25bobo\$181bo11\$165b3o\$151bo12bo2bo\$150bobo11b2obo\$150bobo\$151bo2\$164b2o\$164b4o\$165bo2bo\$166bobo7bo\$166bobo6bobo\$175bobo\$176bo\$168bo\$165bo2bo\$95bo68b5o\$94bob2o64bo2bo\$96b2o65b2o\$95b3o2\$99b2o\$98b3o3\$91bo54bo\$90bo54bobo4bobo\$90b3o52bobo4b2o\$130bobo13bo6bo\$130b2o\$131bo3\$171bo\$170bobo\$170bobo\$171bo12\$115bo25bo\$114b3o23bobo\$114bob2o22bobo\$113b2o26bo\$113b2o\$113b2o\$117bo\$116b2o\$106bo7bobo49bo\$107bo5bo2bo48bobo\$105b3o6bobo48bobo\$114b3o49bo\$114b2obo\$114bo2bo\$115bo6\$67bo50bo8bo\$65b2o52b2o6b2o\$66b2o50b2o7b3o\$127b2o7bo\$127b2o6bobo\$128bo6bobo\$129bobo4bo\$130bo3\$121bo\$121bobo37bo\$99bo21b2o37bobo\$99bobo58bobo\$99b2o60bo2\$108bo\$107bobo\$107bobo\$108bo7\$131bo\$130bobo\$130bobo\$131bo5\$156bo\$155bobo\$155bobo\$156bo2\$103bo\$102bobo\$102bobo\$103bo\$41bo\$41bobo\$41b2o4\$126bo\$125bobo\$125bobo\$126bo\$96bobo\$96b2o\$74bobo20bo\$74b2o\$75bo75bo\$150bobo\$150bobo\$27bo123bo\$25b2ob2o\$25b2ob2o68bo\$26bob3o66bobo\$25b3o69bobo\$98bo3\$26b2o\$26b2o2\$25bo\$24bob2ob2o29bo60bo\$23b2o4b2o28bobo58bobo\$23b2ob2o30b2ob2o57bobo\$25bo33bo2bo58bo\$59bo3bo\$59bo3\$59b2o85bo\$60bo84bobo\$145bobo\$32bo24bo88bo\$33bo23bob2ob2o\$31b3o22b2ob2ob2o29bo\$57bobo32bobo\$58bo33bobo\$93bo7\$11bo52bo5bo2bo\$9b2o54b2o3bob2o\$10b2o52b2o6b2o\$113b2o\$111bo\$74b2o35b3o\$5b3o66b2o37b2o\$5bo2bo\$5bo2bo132bo\$4b4o107b2o23bobo\$4b2o59bo49b2o23bobo\$3bo61bobo73bo\$4bo38bo21b2o\$4bo38bobo42bo\$43b2o42bobo16bobo\$87bobo16b2o\$88bo18bo13\$29bo\$27b2ob2o\$27b2ob2o14bo89bo\$28bob3o14b2o86bobo\$27b3o16b2o87bobo\$136bo2\$83bo\$28b2o52bobo\$28b2o52bobo\$83bo\$27bo\$12bobo11bob2ob2o\$13b2o10b2o4b2o\$13bo11b2ob2o\$27bo\$123bobo\$124b2o\$124bo5\$34bo5b3o\$35bo7bo\$33b3o4b3o88bo\$130bobo\$82bo47bobo\$43b2o36bo49bo\$43b2o36b3o\$78bo\$77bobo\$77bobo\$35bo42bo\$33b2o\$13bo20b2o\$11b2o\$12b2o8\$62bo\$60bobo\$61b2o2\$79bo\$79bo44b2o\$79bo44b2o2\$75b3o3b3o\$28bo\$29bo49bo\$27b3o49bo\$79bo16\$73b3o43b2o\$119b2o\$71bo5bo\$9bo61bo5bo\$9bobo59bo5bo\$9b2o\$73b3o9\$75bobo\$76b2o\$76bo5\$69bo\$69bo44b2o\$42bo26bo44b2o\$43b2o\$42b2o21b3o3b3o2\$69bo\$69bo\$69bo!`

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bad news: the shift by 4 was in the wrong direction, I flipped something in x when testing which gave me false hope, and then when I actually tried it out I was still wrong. But here is another reaction that should also be easy and which shifts by 4 (actually 7, but an H can fix that) to the left.

`x = 10, y = 11, rule = B3/S23o\$b2o\$2o5\$3bo4bo\$4bo2bobo\$2b3o2bobo\$8bo!`

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Better news, this one is incredibly easy to make!

`x = 156, y = 218, rule = B3/S232\$96bo\$96bobo\$96b2o8\$151bobo\$151b2o\$129bobo20bo\$129b2o\$130bo15\$77b3o\$77bo2bo\$75bo4bo2\$75bo\$76bo\$77b2obo\$78bo2bo\$78b2o\$79bo2bo\$82bo\$78bo\$81bo\$78b3o10\$67bo59bo\$67bo58bo\$61b2o42bo20b3o\$61bob2o39bo\$64b2o38b3o\$64bobo\$61bo3b2o\$65bo2\$99b2o\$58bobo38bobo\$58b2o41bo\$59bo39bobo\$98bo\$98bobo\$98bo\$97bo12\$108b3o\$94bo12bo2bo\$93bobo11b2obo\$93bobo\$94bo2\$107b2o\$107b4o\$108bo2bo\$109bobo\$109bobo3\$71bobo37bo\$72b2o34bo2bo\$72bo34b5o\$105bo2bo\$106b2o7\$32bo2bo53bo\$32bob2o52bobo4bobo\$34b2o52bobo4b2o\$73bobo13bo6bo\$73b2o\$36b2o36bo\$36b2o4\$27bo\$27bobo\$27b2o12\$79b2o3b2o\$78bo2bo2b2o\$78bo2bo\$79b2o11\$53bo\$52b3o\$51bo2b2o\$46bo8bo\$44bobo8b2o\$45b2o10bo13bo\$54b4o12bo\$54b2o14b3o2\$74b2o3b2o\$73bo2bo2b2o\$73bo2bo\$74b2o2\$60bo2b2o\$2bobo59b2o\$2b2o59b2o\$3bo38bo\$42bobo14b2o2b2o\$42b2o21bo\$59b4o\$61bo2bo2\$37b2o\$37bob2o\$39b2o\$37b2o\$35b2o2\$35bobo\$36bo2\$69b2o3b2o\$68bo2bo2b2o\$68bo2bo\$69b2o6\$46b3o\$46bo2bo\$45bo3bo\$45b4o\$46bo5\$46b2ob2o\$46bob3o5\$45b2ob3o\$45b4obo\$44b2o2b2o9\$34bo\$32b2o\$12bo20b2o\$10b2o\$11b2o!`

Now for real, I will have a p158 LWSS side rake next.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's done! And to prove it can be synthesized from scratch, here is helix to LWSS rake.

`x = 823, y = 1111, rule = 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Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Just to let you know: I'm following your posts and admiring your progress, only that I cannot contribute anything.

Keep on! We are currently in the "heroic phase" of caterpillar construction after ten years of complete silence.
HartmutHolzwart

Posts: 422
Joined: June 27th, 2009, 10:58 am
Location: Germany

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I'm very glad to hear you're following and enjoying! If you can't contribute with golly tinkering (that's legitimately all I've been doing, I haven't run scripts because I doubt any are tailored towards this subspace of GoL and writing them would be more work than just playing around and developing intuition) and you still want to help out somehow, then I would always appreciate confirmation that the math I've done so far (and ever) is sane

Speaking of, I was trying to match up a sideways LWSS stream to the helix and I need to write some math down. We have 2 degrees of freedom: we can forestall the LWSS creation by 4 generations, and we can forestall the interaction of the gliders from below. The effect of each:
LWSS created 4 gens later -> stream translated (-1,-1) from gliders + (-2,0) from LWSS motion = (-3,-1).
gliders interact 4 gens later -> final stream translated (2,0) from horizontal LWSS + (0,-2) from vertical LWSS = (2,-2).

So it looks like we can control everything up to parity once again. It's like a bishop on a chessboard.
..Where the H reaction itself is a knight and can help us if parity is off. Extension of the knightship analogy!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My attempts to make an adjustable NE glider rake that can send two streams of closely positioned p79 gliders has run into trouble. I tried to use 2 beehive trails to construct a 2-track with separation 263 from the 2-track in the beehive layer. This would allow SE gliders to be suppressed by the burning Hs and for the bottom track SW gliders to be kicked to NE gliders before the top track, so that the resulting streams could essentially overlap if necessary.

A B C D E:
B - A = 31
C - B = E - D = 2
D - B = E - C = 263

Except: gliders intended to kick back the bottom track crash into the top track. I need to burn the bottom track first for this to work, because the top track gliders would annihilate the bottom. Gliders crash on tracks 2 and 261. It just won't work this way.
Visually:
`x = 220, y = 380, rule = B3/S23\$178bo\$177bo\$177b3o10\$212bo\$210b2o\$211b2o23\$156b3o\$155bo2bo\$155bo4bo\$160bo\$160b2o\$157bob2o\$158bo10\$146bobo59bo\$146b2o60bobo\$147bo38bo21b2o\$186bobo\$186b2o8\$174b3o\$177bo\$174bo2bo\$175b2o\$175b2o\$174bo2bo\$174bo\$176b2o12\$173bo\$172bobo\$172bobo\$173bo\$187b3o\$187bo2bo\$187bo2bo2\$190b2o\$189bo2bo\$189bo2bo\$122bo60bo5bo\$121bo62bo\$121b3o58b3o8\$178bo\$176b2o\$156bo11bo8b2o\$154b2o11bobo\$155b2o10bobo\$168bo4\$106b3o\$106bobo\$106bo2bo\$107b3o\$107b3o\$105bo2bo\$108bo\$105bo\$106b2o\$105b3o\$105b2o\$104bobo2b2o\$104bobo2b2o\$104b3o3\$163bo\$162bobo\$162bobo\$163bo3\$112bo\$110bobo\$111b2o7\$92b2o\$92bobo\$94b2o\$92bobo57bo\$92bo59bobo\$92bo2bo32bo23b2o\$127bob2o\$94b2o33b2o\$128b3o27bo\$157bobo\$132b2o23bobo\$131b3o24bo\$85bo\$83b2o\$84b2o38bo\$123bo\$123b3o4\$138bo\$136b2ob2o\$136b2ob2o\$137bob3o\$136b3o4\$123bo13b2o\$122bobo12b2o\$122bobo\$123bo12bo16bo\$135bob2ob2o10bobo\$134b2o4b2o10bobo\$134b2ob2o14bo\$136bo8\$104bo\$105b2o\$104b2o\$64bo\$63b3o\$62b2o2bo2\$66b2o\$66b2o50bo\$65bo2bo48bobo\$64b3o50bobo\$118bo29bo\$122bo24bobo\$120b2o25bobo\$100bo20b2o25bo\$98b2o\$99b2o5\$53bo\$52bo\$52b3o9\$108b2o3b2o\$107bo2bo2b2o\$107bo2bo32bo\$108b2o32bobo\$142bobo\$143bo2\$82bo\$81b3o\$80b2o2bo\$80bo3bo\$80bob2o\$80b2o5\$81b2o2bo\$81bobobo\$84bo\$78bo\$79bo\$77b3o\$83bobo11bo5b2o3b2o\$84b2o12b2o2bo2bo2b2o\$84bo7b2o8bo2bo32bo\$92bo10b2o32bobo\$94b3o40bobo\$91bo5bo40bo\$92bo4bo\$93bo2bo\$95bo\$29bo60bo\$27b2o60bo\$28b2o38bo20b3o\$67bo\$67b3o10\$98b2o3b2o\$97bo2bo2b2o\$97bo2bo32bo\$98b2o32bobo\$132bobo\$133bo12\$92bo\$93b2o\$92b2o4\$93b2o3b2o\$92bo2bo2b2o\$92bo2bo32bo\$93b2o32bobo\$127bobo\$128bo\$3bo62bo\$3bobo58b2o\$3b2o39bo20b2o\$42b2o\$43b2o\$84bo\$60b3o20b3o\$60bo2bo19bo2bo\$60bo2bo21b2o\$59b4o22bo\$59b2o21b2o\$58bo23b4o\$59bo23bo2bo\$59bo24bo\$83bo\$82b2o\$81bo5bo\$81b2o3b2o\$82b2o\$123bo\$122bobo\$122bobo\$123bo5\$87bobo\$88b2o\$88bo4\$74bo\$72b2o\$73b2o\$23bo\$22b3o\$21b2o2bo2\$25b2o\$25b2o\$24bo2bo90bo\$23b3o91bobo\$117bobo\$118bo24\$103bo5b3o\$104bo7bo\$102b3o4b3o3\$112b2o\$112b2o4\$104bo\$102b2o\$103b2o!`

To identify these frustrations earlier and plan accordingly I will compile a list of which tracks allow gliders to pass, or even better, a list of possible G+G and G+H collisions from each and every track. To the spreadsheetmobile!
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Here's my compilation of interactions. Most useful are the tracks which leave a burnable still life - for example track 31 which leaves a hive, and track 34 which leaves a SE loaf. Track 130 leaves a hive and suppresses the outward glider, but I feel like that might be less useful than the 31, 2 combination (the benefit of the latter is that one can use the leftmost track as a rake interchangeably and then rephase the other two tracks cleanly).

Track 122 produces a downward B which is destroyed upon reaching the block below, which means that in the steady state we get a block, a beehive and a NE glider. This is probably our most promising forward rake.

Also generally useful knowledge is that gliders cannot pass through if the track separation is any of the following:
1-7, 41-49, 84-92, 126-135, 169-177, 212-220, 255-263, 297-306, 340-341

What their interaction produces is detailed in the spreadsheet. 169 and 263 are the kickbacks. (It's symmetrical about 216 and 45).

As for what I'm currently working on, I am trying to use the 31, 2 track to produce another 31, 2 track based on freezing or kicking back the earliest SE gliders. It's simple enough to produce a new 31, 2 track from beehives, but it would be far more space efficient to replicate the track as close to the stream as possible.

Edit: I mainly looked for interactions with the lower sparks. Doubtlessly I missed some interactions with the higher sparks but they are fewer because the H is somewhat fragile. I wasn't perfect though; as I found out just now, track 307 has a way to convert incoming glider + H = blinker on the upper sparks. I am updating my copy of the spreadsheet and will probably post another once significant updates have been made.
Attachments
knightship interactions.csv
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Trying to make forward rakes from the 31, 2 track. It seems pretty straightforward to do it by creating 2 additional tracks and taking advantage of either track 87 or 122. Here are two designs, one using each.

`x = 957, y = 689, rule = B3/S235\$384b3o\$384bo2bo\$383bo3bo\$383b2o\$384bobo\$385b2o2bo\$385bo2bo\$385bo\$384b2ob2o\$385bobo\$386bo10\$374bo60bo\$372b2o60bo\$373b2o38bo20b3o\$369b3o40bo\$369bo2bo39b3o\$368bo3bo\$368b3o2bo\$369b4o3\$366bobo\$366b2o34bo2b2o\$367bo38b2o\$405b2o2\$401b2o2b2o\$407bo\$401b4o\$403bo2bo10\$871bo\$870bobo\$401bo468bob2o\$400bobo12b3o454bo\$400bobo11bo2bo\$401bo12bo2bo455bob2o\$413bo2bo457b2o\$413bo2bo\$417b2o\$417b2o449bo\$415bo3bo446b2o\$418b2o447b2o\$420bo\$377bobo35bo3bo\$378b2o36b3o\$378bo34bo\$411bobo\$412b2o7\$341bo\$341b2o53bo6bobo\$341b3o51bobo5b2o\$341b2o38bobo11bobo6bo\$341b2o38b2o13bo\$342bo39bo\$343bobo\$344bo2\$890b3o\$335bo553bo2bo\$335bobo555bo\$335b2o552b2o\$889b2o3bo\$894bo\$892bo\$881bo8b3o\$882b2o6b2o\$881b2o7bo\$891b2o\$891bobo\$890bo3bo\$891b2o3\$386b2o3b2o\$385bo2bo2b2o\$385bo2bo\$386b2o454bo52bo6b2o\$842bobo48bobo8bo\$842b2o50b2o9bo\$902bobo\$903bo\$905bobo\$905bobo\$906bo3\$897bobo\$897b2o\$875bobo20bo\$352bo7bo514b2o\$350bobo6b3o514bo\$351b2o6bob2o16bo\$360bo2bo14bo505bo\$361b2o15b3o502bobo\$361bo521bobo\$884bo\$381b2o3b2o\$380bo2bo2b2o\$380bo2bo\$381b2o\$368b2o\$310bobo54b3o\$310b2o55bo2bo\$311bo38bo16b2ob2o\$350bobo14b2ob2o\$350b2o14b2ob2o\$367bo\$305b2o61b3o\$305bobo61bo\$307b2o\$306bo37bo\$304bobo37b2o475b3o\$303b2o41bo474bo2bo\$303b3o38b2o475bo2bo\$343bobo\$344bo479b2o53bo\$342bobo478bo2bo51bobo\$340bo482bo2bo51bobo\$340bobo480bo55bo\$376b2o3b2o\$375bo2bo2b2o\$375bo2bo\$292bo83b2o\$291b3o\$290b5o\$290b2ob3o\$291b2ob2o\$293bo517b2o\$809bo63bo\$809b3o60bo\$353b3o455b2o38bo20b3o\$353bo2bo493bo\$351bo4bo8bobo482b3o\$366b2o445b2o\$351bo14bo446b2o\$352bo\$353b2obo\$354bo2bo\$354b2o448bobo67bo\$355bo2bo445b2o34b2o31bobo\$358bo446bo33b3o31bobo\$312bo41bo484bo2bo31bo\$313b2o42bo13b2o3b2o461b2ob2o\$312b2o10b3o24bo2b3o13bo2bo2b2o461b2ob2o\$323bo2bo25bo17bo2bo464b2ob2o\$323bo2bo23b3o18b2o466bo\$322bo2bo514b3o\$322bo2bo515bo\$326b2o\$326b2o\$324bo3bo\$298bobo26b2o\$299b2o28bo\$299bo24bo3bo13bo\$325b3o12b2o\$341b2o4\$336b3o499bo\$336bo2bo497bobo\$336bo2bo497bobo29bo\$273bo61b4o499bo13b3o13bobo\$272bo62b2o514bo2bo13bobo\$272b3o59bo29bo486b2obo14bo\$312bobo20bo27bobo489b2o\$312b2o21bo27bobo489b2o\$313bo50bo489bo2bo\$853bo\$821bobo29b3o\$822b2o30bo\$822bo26bo\$318bo528bobo\$317bobo528b2o\$317bobo\$318bo3\$259bo\$258b3o\$258b3o\$841bobo\$258b4o514b3o54bo7b2o\$257b5o514bob3o38bobo10bobo7bo\$257b2obo558b2o11bobo29bo\$779bobo38bo12bo29bobo\$779bobo81bobo\$258b2o99bo420b2o82bo\$257bo100bobo\$358bobo\$256bobo2bo97bo413bo\$256bob3obo510bobo\$255b3ob2obo510b2o\$256bobo55bo\$256b3o\$257bo2\$310bob2o\$311bo5\$265bo\$263bobo\$264b2o44bo\$309bo\$288bo20b3o514b2o31bo\$287bo538b2o30bobo\$285b2ob2o568bobo\$284b5o65bo504bo\$283b2o2bo65bobo\$283bob4o64bobo445bo\$283bo4bo65bo445b3o\$283bo2b2o511bo2b2o\$241bobo41b2o511b5o\$241b2o555b5o\$242bo38bo519bo\$281bobo517bobo\$281b2o518b2obo\$306b2o494bobo\$306b2o480bo14b3o\$753b3o30bobo14bobo\$753bo2bo30b2o12b4o12bo\$752bo3bo44b3o12bo\$752b2o48bo13b3o\$753bobo\$293b3o458b2o2bo\$292bo2bo458bo2bo55bo\$296bo457bo57b3o\$292b2o459b2ob2o53b2o2bo5b2o28b3o\$292b2o3bo456bobo58bo5b2o28bo2bo\$297bo457bo58bo36bo2bo\$295bo53bo460bo\$293b3o52bobo459bobo41b2o\$293b2o53bobo437bo21b2o41bo2bo\$293bo55bo438bobo62bo2bo\$265b3o26b2o492b2o63bo\$265bo2bo25bobo488bo\$267b2o24bo3bo486b3o\$294b2o487bo2b2o\$263bo2bo516b3obo\$264b2o75b3o399bo42b2o\$267b2o32b2o38b3o397b2o\$266b3o32b2o38bo2bo397b2o38bo\$267bo74b3o436bo\$264b2ob2o9bobo61b2o437b3o\$264b2ob2o10b2o561bo\$264bo3bo10bo560b2o\$264bo3bo572b2o\$265bo3\$771bo2b2o40b2o\$775b2o39b2o\$774b2o\$793b3o\$217bo52bo7b2o490b2o2b2o17bo2bo\$216bo54bo5bo2bo495bo15bo3bo\$216b3o50b3o5bo2bo489b4o19bo2b2o\$277bo494bo2bo19bo\$280bo512b2o\$278b3o511b3o\$280b2o510b3o\$281bo519bobo\$802b2o\$296b2o496b2o6bo\$273bo22b2o495bob2o\$271b2o520bo3bo\$251bo20b2o74bo447bo\$249b2o98b2o\$250b2o96b2o\$770bo\$769bobo12b3o\$769bobo11bo2bo9b2o\$770bo12bo2bo\$782bo2bo25b2o\$782bo2bo25b2o\$786b2o77bo\$786b2o78b2o\$784bo3bo76b2o\$323bo463b2o\$323bobo463bo\$323b2o459bo3bo\$291bo493b3o\$290b3o424bo64bo\$289b2o2bo423bobo60bobo\$288b2o2b3o422b2o62b2o\$197b3o87b3o3bo\$196bo2bo\$196bo2bo91bo524bo\$195bo2bo617bobo\$195bo2bo617b2o\$199b2o\$199b2o\$197bo3bo563bo6bobo\$200b2o562bobo5b2o\$202bo547bobo11bobo6bo\$197bo3bo548b2o13bo\$198b3o550bo11\$185bobo59bo\$185b2o60bobo\$186bo38bo21b2o115bo\$225bobo134bobo\$225b2o136b2o4\$760bo\$219bo539bobo\$219b2o538bobo\$221bo538bo120bo\$219b2o658bobo\$218bobo659b2o\$219bo78bobo\$217bobo78b2o\$215bo83bo\$215bobo\$692bobo\$692b2o\$693bo3\$791bobo\$791b2o\$792bo2\$748bo\$747bo\$214bo13b3o495bo20b3o\$213bobo12bo2bo493bo\$213bobo10bo4bo493b3o27bo\$214bo539bobo\$226bo527bobo\$227bo527bo\$228b2obo\$229bo2bo\$229b2o\$230bo2bo\$233bo\$229bo\$232bo\$161bo64bo2b3o\$160bo66bo\$160b3o62b3o\$377bobo\$378b2o\$378bo5\$209bo7bo\$208bobo4b2o\$195bo12bobo5b2o532bo143bobo\$193b2o14bo539bobo143b2o\$194b2o78bo474bobo143bo\$273bo433b3o40bo\$273b3o430bo2bo\$706b2obo\$668bo\$667bo\$667b3o\$706b2o\$706b4o\$664bo42bo2bo56bo\$663b3o42bobo55bo\$662b2o2bo41bobo55b3o\$666bo\$665bo\$661bo48bo13bo\$661bobo44bobo11b2o\$661b2o46b2o12b2o\$719b3o\$719bo2bo\$204bo513bo3bo\$203bobo512b3o2bo\$203bobo513b4o22bo\$204bo539bobo\$744bobo\$716bobo26bo\$716b2o\$694bobo20bo\$694b2o\$695bo\$138bo\$138bo\$132b2o259bo\$132bob2o258bo\$135b2o255b3o\$135bobo\$132bo3b2o\$136bo3\$129bobo59bo\$129b2o60bobo716bo\$130bo38bo21b2o718bo\$169bobo27bo709b3o\$169b2o27bobo49bo\$198bobo47b2o490bo\$199bo49b2o421bo66bobo\$670bobo66bobo\$671b2o67bo5\$743bo\$741b2o\$742b2o3\$634bo\$633bobo\$633bob2o\$635bo2\$636bob2o\$637b2o2\$194bo\$193bobo435bo60bo\$193bobo433b2o60bo43bo\$194bo435b2o38bo20b3o40bobo\$669bo64bobo\$142bobo524b3o63bo\$143b2o\$143bo2\$407bo\$408b2o\$407b2o\$169b3o\$169bo2bo\$169bo2bo\$170bo2bo\$105bo64b3o\$104bo66b2o\$104b3o817bo\$144bobo778b2o\$144b2o778b2o\$145bo78bo\$224bobo\$189bo34b2o459bobo\$188bobo495b2o\$188bobo495bo43bo\$161bo27bo539bobo\$159b2o568bobo\$160b2o568bo\$185b2o\$185bob2o528bo\$187b2o528bobo\$131b3o51b2o457bo72b2o\$131b3o49b2o460b2o\$131bo2bo509b2o\$132b3o48bobo\$132b2o50bo11\$158bo\$159bo565bo\$157b3o564bobo\$182bo541bobo\$175bo6bo542bo\$174bobo5b2o239bo\$174bobo4b3o237bobo\$175bo4bob2o238b2o\$180b2o4\$81bo56bo\$79b2o58b2o\$80b2o56b2o800bo\$938bobo\$193bo5b3o737b2o\$194bo7bo\$192b3o4b3o499bo\$74b2o626bo\$74b2o624b3o\$76bo125b2o\$74b3o58bo66b2o\$73bobo59bobo\$74b2o37bo21b2o583bo\$73bo39bobo603bobo\$73bo39b2o79bo497bobo24bobo\$71bo98bo5b2o14b2o498b2o26bo\$160bo8bobo4b2o15b2o465bo32bo\$158b2o9bobo11b2o473bobo\$159b2o9bo11bobo474b2o\$184bo\$198bo\$198b2o\$197bobo485b3o24b3o\$687bo25bo\$212b3o470b3o25b3o\$214bo\$213bo472bo\$227b2o455b3o\$228b2o452b3o\$227bo455b2o\$242b2o\$241bobo\$167bo75bo467bobo\$166bobo88bo453bobo\$166bobo88b2o\$167bo88bobo455bo\$436bobo\$271b3o163b2o\$273bo163bo\$272bo437bobo\$286b2o423bo\$80bobo204b2o\$81b2o203bo\$81bo72bo146b2o405b2o\$152bobo145bobo404bobo\$153b2o147bo405bo244bobo\$316bo637b2o\$316b2o636bo\$315bobo2\$330b3o\$332bo\$49bo60b2o219bo\$48bo60bo2bo232b2o\$48b3o58bo2bo233b2o344bo\$88bobo18bo52bo182bo347b2o\$88b2o22bo48bobo196b2o330b2o\$89bo20b3o48bobo4bo190bobo\$112b2o48bo5bobo190bo\$113bo20bo33b2o205bo297bobo19bo\$134bobo238b2o297b2o18bo\$134b2o238bobo297bo19b3o\$105bo\$103b2o284b3o\$104b2o285bo\$390bo\$404b2o255bo41b2o\$405b2o254bobo38bobo\$404bo256b2o21b2o17bo\$122b3o294b2o237bo24b3o\$125bo292bobo236b3o23bo2bo\$122bo2bo294bo235bo2b2o22b2ob2o\$123b2o309bo221b3obo22b2ob2o\$123b2o309b2o223b2o21b2ob2o\$122bo2bo307bobo247bo\$73bo48bo532bo28b3o\$72b3o49b2o528bo30bo\$72bob2o578b3o\$71b2o627b2o\$71b2o626bobo\$71b2o628bo\$75bo639bo\$74b2o639b2o\$72bobo21bo617bobo\$71bo2bo22bo\$72bobo20b3o631b3o\$72b3o656bo\$72b2obo654bo\$72bo2bo668b2o\$73bo44b4o623b2o\$117b2obo623bo\$116bo5b2o635b2o\$117bob2obo635bobo\$117b2o3bo556b2o79bo\$678bobo93bo\$25bo50bo602bo94b2o\$23b2o52b2o694bobo\$24b2o50b2o\$788b3o\$131bo658bo\$132bo9b2obo643bo\$130b3o7bo4bo657b2o\$139bo5bo658b2o\$139bo663bo\$138b2ob2obo673b2o\$79bo58b2obo2bo672bobo\$79bobo58b4o522bo152bo\$57bo21b2o60b3o523bo165bo\$57bobo605b3o165b2o\$57b2o79bo693bobo\$136b2o\$104bo32b2o708b3o\$102b2o559bobo183bo\$103b2o6bo5b2o544b2o183bo\$110bobo4b2o545bo197b2o\$110bobo750b2o\$111bo562b2o186bo\$673bobo201b2o\$121b2o551bo201bobo\$120bobo755bo\$122bo\$136bo\$136b2o\$135bobo2\$150b3o\$152bo520b2o\$151bo522b2o\$165b2o506bo\$114bo51b2o520b2o\$115b2o48bo521bobo\$108b2o4b3o63b2o507bo\$107bobo69bobo521bo\$107bo73bo521b2o\$107bobo85bo506bobo\$107b3o85b2o\$106b3o85bobo520b3o\$105bobo611bo\$92bo12bobo101b3o506bo\$90bobo13bo104bo520b2o\$91b2o117bo522b2o\$224b2o506bo\$225b2o520b2o\$224bo521bobo\$239b2o507bo\$238bobo521bo\$240bo521b2o\$254bo506bobo\$54bobo197b2o\$54b2o197bobo\$32bobo20bo\$32b2o234b3o\$33bo78bo157bo\$103bo8bobo154bo\$78bo23bobo7b2o169b2o\$78bobo21bobo179b2o\$78b2o23bo179bo!`

Unfortunately, with a forward rake that uses only 1H per track to operate, there is a big problem. If used to make a new track out of SE gliders via either the kickback or the hive reaction, the next rake forward destroys either. As does the one after it. But if the separation between forward rakes is 3H per track, then both the hive and the kickback reaction survive. So now I will try to make a sensible, clean forward rake from the 31, 2 track that uses 3H per track.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Progress is happening! I used forward rakes to make a new 31, 2 track from a 31, 2 track. My first attempt was horrible, using the 2G->Hive reaction, ended up about 3 times as big as my next one. I've shrunk it further still though, so here are methods 2 and 3 to make a new 31, 2 track.

2 Kickbacks:
`x = 1121, y = 1497, rule = 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1 kickback and clever shenaniganry:
`x = 925, y = 1393, rule = 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The second one has the added advantage that the forward rake is demolished in the process, leaving only the 31, 2 track. It could start making LWSSs immediately next. The new track could make a forward rake that contacts the LWSSs (which have a good chance of passing through, but some extra care might need to be taken) to synthesize the helix. Plans are coming together!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

316 generations translates a line of spaceships by (horiz, vert) = (20, 92). I'm writing down the separation vectors between internal spaceships of varying velocities, and the angle they make with the horizontal.

still life => (-20, -92) = (5, 23) = +77.7
(-1,-1)c/4 => (-316/4-20, -316/4-92) = (-99, -171) = (11, 19) = +59.9
(1,-1)c/4 => (316/4-20, -316/4-92) = (59, -171) = -71.0
(1,1)c/4 => (316/4-20, 316/4-92) = (59, -13) = -12.4
(-1,1)c/4 => (-316/4-20, 316/4-92) = (99, 13) = +7.5
(0,1)c/2 => (-20, 316/2-92) = (-20, 66) = (10, -33) = -73.1
(1,0)c/2 => (316/2-20, -92) = (138, -92) = (3, -2) = -33.7

That should be all that matters - there's no plan to make downward or backward *WSS rakes. Mostly I just did this to see where the predicted intersection between any two streams is. (I had grossly overestimated the angular difference between stills and (-1,-1)c/4 spaceships in my first rake, and so took up a bunch of space as they crept closer together). It also gives a reasonable estimate of how long the helix is safe from SE gliders, as the angle between their paths is 2.1 degrees.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

It seems that your tracks are somewhat dirty. Do you have an idea how to get rid of excess gliders, besides heisenburning them in the spaceship stream? I think a clean set of trails would be quite useful.
Ivan Fomichev

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

It is more difficult to do anything cleanly as there is no gliderless reaction. However, the only real dirty portions of these components are upon startup. I try to incorporate the suppressing reactions wherever possible, even if at the cost of letting out a few early gliders, so that the output gliders are independent of the necessary H reactions down the line.

I know that once the p79 LWSS stream is synthesized, it will be nearly impossible to heisenburn the SE gliders in the remaining p158 helix - the pair of glider streams that cleanly vanishes on the LWSS was a lucky break for now. My main plan was to use a forward rake to turn the rightmost stream into stills, and use the bit of freedom I have in the other streams to have them all successively vanish on the stills. With this, the end product would be clean; I just haven't put too much effort into it yet.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

... experience shows, that a working puffer can converted into a clean space ship somehow.

So it is a solid first step to search for a front end that works without caring too much about possible debris, except that it shouldn't be in the way ...
HartmutHolzwart

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

HartmutHolzwart wrote:... experience shows, that a working puffer can converted into a clean space ship somehow.

I wouldn't be so optimistic (though I'd like to be). I don't think there was a comparable incident of turning a puffer into a clean spaceship, while there were yet no known spaceships of that velocity. And since it's neither diagonal nor orthogonal speed, you wouldn't be able to use one or more pairs of symmetric copies to mutually annihilate exhausts. In this case the best you would end up is a growing spaceship.

HartmutHolzwart wrote:So it is a solid first step to search for a front end that works without caring too much about possible debris, except that it shouldn't be in the way ...

In order to build a front end, you need to know, how the spine should look like.
Ivan Fomichev

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Location: Hamburg, Germany

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I still am not sure how the spine should look. It seems plausible that the entire ship could be constructed with only a single pair of 31, 2 tracks. It would be an increasing distance from the construction to the helix, but it's just numbers. It also seems plausible that we could have a cycle of three 31, 2 tracks. The rearmost one could produce LWSS and then self-destruct, the middle one could produce the p158 forward rake mates, and the frontmost one could kick back a debris stream to make a new 31, 2 track (as well as clean up other debris). This would keep the construction relatively close to the helix at the cost of only the size of one 31, 2 multiplicator. The downside of the latter approach is that it would be difficult to ensure all the elements pass through all three 31, 2 tracks.

Also worth mentioning, a simple mechanism exists to take a p79 SW stream, a p79 NE stream, and a p158 SE stream and make the appropriate p158 pairs to mate with the LWSS. It just alternates between kickbacks and vanishing reactions. Ensuring the right glider color while maintaining a clean production of the SW stream is what has proven tricky with this.

I am not too concerned about debris, it is a constant on starting any new track (i.e, the actual reactions occurring on the trails are clean), and thus easy to eliminate with smart forward raking. Also I have reduced the debris output of the p158 LWSS rake from my first post (HFs in alternating states of disarray) to just a p158 block trail, which could be consumed to produce p158 SE gliders anyway.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I've slowly been plugging away at this, and am excited to announce the first synthesis of a helix LWSS!
knightship first synth.mc

The construction process is very generic, creating and then thawing frozen beehives of the correct color into the two necessary streams. With enough space, the components will always pass through. The only way in which this particular synthesis is lucky is that I was able to piggyback the filtering of the p158 SE gliders off the E LWSS rake debris. In general, I think it would be possible to produce them separately, and there will be more space to do so for constructions further from the helix itself.

Edit: actually, in later constructions we don't even need to filter the SE gliders, we can make the NE stream p79 and just filter them out on the block left behind using one of the following:
`x = 158, y = 56, rule = B3/S2323b2o57b2o57b2o\$6bo16b2o41bo15b2o42bo14b2o\$6b2o58b2o58b2o\$5bobo57bobo57bobo2\$20b3o57b3o57b3o\$2b2o18bo39b2o18bo39b2o18bo\$bobo17bo39bobo17bo39bobo17bo\$3bo31b2o26bo31b2o26bo31b2o\$17bo18b2o39bo18b2o39bo18b2o\$17b2o16bo41b2o16bo41b2o16bo\$16bobo57bobo57bobo2\$31b3o57b3o57b3o\$33bo59bo59bo\$32bo59bo59bo25\$20b2o66b2o59b2o\$6bo13b2o44bo21b2o36bo22b2o\$6b2o58b2o58b2o\$5bobo57bobo57bobo2\$20b3o57b3o57b3o\$2b2o18bo39b2o18bo39b2o18bo\$bobo17bo39bobo17bo39bobo17bo\$3bo31b2o26bo31b2o26bo31b2o\$17bo18b2o39bo18b2o39bo18b2o\$17b2o16bo41b2o16bo41b2o16bo\$16bobo57bobo57bobo2\$31b3o57b3o57b3o\$33bo59bo59bo\$32bo59bo59bo!`

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

biggiemac wrote:excited to announce the first synthesis of a helix LWSS!

This is very nice design pattern, great job.

biggiemac wrote:The construction process is very generic, creating and then thawing frozen beehives of the correct color into the two necessary streams

I was wondering do you have "edge shooting" (*WSS salvo + glider salvo) recipes for all the *WSS?
Last edited by simsim314 on December 1st, 2014, 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

simsim314

Posts: 1702
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

What troubles me is that some of lightweight spaceships in the helix may be too close to synthesize them one by one. Have you checked that it is synthesisable with known recipes? It would be a pity, if it appeared too late, that there is no synthesisable p158 helix, but only, say, p237. I'll run my helix building script later today, hopefully there are enough helices to choose from (though some of them might involve heavyweight spaceships, for which we don't have synthesis yet).
Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
Moderator

Posts: 1142
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

That was one of the first things I checked, all is well.
`x = 539, y = 1197, rule = B3/S2317\$153bob3o\$152b2o2b2o\$153b3obo\$153b4o\$153b2o8bo\$151b5o6b3o\$150bobo2bo6bob2o\$151bo3b3o5b3o\$157bo5b2o\$140b3o\$140bo2bo\$140bo\$140bo\$141bobo6\$140bo\$139b3o\$138b2obo\$138b3o\$139b2o3\$141bo\$140b3o\$140bob2o\$141b3o\$141b2o22bo\$164b3o\$164bob2o\$117bo47b3o\$116bobo46b2o\$116bo2bo\$117b2o6bo\$125bo47bo\$172b3o\$171b2obo\$171b3o\$165b3o4b2o\$132b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$131bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$134bo17bo12bo\$124bo5bo3bo17bo13bobo\$124bobo7bo14bobo\$124b2o5bobo5\$150bo\$149b3o\$149bob2o\$150b3o\$143bo6b2o\$142b3o\$141b2obo\$141b3o7bo\$142b2o6b3o\$149b2obo\$149b3o\$150b2o23bo\$174b3o\$173b2obo\$173b3o\$174b2o3\$183bo\$182b3o\$182bob2o\$183b3o\$175b3o5b2o\$142b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$142bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$104b3o35bo17bo16bo\$104bo2bo34bo3bo13bo13bobo\$103bo3bo34bo18bobo\$103b2o38bobo\$104bobo\$105b2o2bo\$105bo2bo\$105bo\$104b2ob2o51bo\$105bobo51b3o\$106bo51b2obo\$158b3o\$153bo5b2o\$152b3o\$152bob2o\$153b3o5bo\$153b2o5b3o\$160bob2o\$161b3o\$161b2o22bo\$94bo89b3o\$92b2o90bob2o\$93b2o90b3o\$185b2o3\$193bo\$192b3o\$191b2obo\$191b3o\$185b3o4b2o\$152b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$151bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$154bo17bo12bo\$113b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$113bo2bo37bo14bobo\$113bo37bobo\$113bo\$114bobo2\$108bo\$107bobo60bo\$107bobo59b3o\$108bo60bob2o\$170b3o\$163bo6b2o\$162b3o\$161b2obo\$161b3o7bo\$162b2o6b3o\$119bo49b2obo\$118b3o48b3o\$117b2obo49b2o23bo\$117b3o74b3o\$118b2o73b2obo\$193b3o\$194b2o2\$100b3o\$99bo2bo100bo\$99b2obo99b3o\$202bob2o\$203b3o\$68bo126b3o5b2o\$68bobo28b2o61b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$68b2o29b4o59bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$100bo2bo58bo17bo16bo\$101bobo19b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$101bobo18bo2bo36bo18bobo\$125bo37bobo\$125bo\$103bo18bobo\$101bobo\$102b2o\$180bo\$179b3o\$178b2obo\$178b3o\$173bo5b2o\$172b3o\$172bob2o\$173b3o5bo\$173b2o5b3o\$87bobo39bo50bob2o\$87b2o39b3o50b3o\$88bo39bob2o49b2o22bo\$129b3o72b3o\$129b2o73bob2o\$205b3o\$205b2o3\$213bo\$212b3o\$211b2obo\$211b3o\$205b3o4b2o\$172b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$171bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$174bo17bo12bo\$133b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$133bo2bo37bo14bobo\$133bo37bobo\$133bo\$134bobo2\$43bobo\$43b2o145bo\$44bo144b3o\$189bob2o\$190b3o\$183bo6b2o\$182b3o\$181b2obo\$116bobo62b3o7bo\$117b2o63b2o6b3o\$117bo21bo49b2obo\$138b3o48b3o\$137b2obo49b2o23bo\$137b3o74b3o\$138b2o73b2obo\$213b3o\$214b2o3\$63bo159bo\$62bo159b3o\$62b3o157bob2o\$223b3o\$215b3o5b2o\$182b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$182bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$182bo17bo16bo\$143b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$142bo2bo36bo18bobo\$145bo37bobo\$145bo\$142bobo3\$200bo\$199b3o\$198b2obo\$198b3o\$193bo5b2o\$192b3o\$192bob2o\$193b3o5bo\$19bo173b2o5b3o\$18bo130bo50bob2o\$18b3o127b3o50b3o\$148bob2o49b2o22bo\$149b3o72b3o\$149b2o73bob2o\$225b3o\$225b2o\$132bo\$133bo\$131b3o99bo\$232b3o\$231b2obo\$231b3o\$225b3o4b2o\$192b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$191bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$194bo17bo12bo\$153b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$153bo2bo37bo14bobo\$153bo37bobo\$153bo\$154bobo3\$210bo\$209b3o\$209bob2o\$210b3o\$203bo6b2o\$202b3o\$201b2obo\$201b3o7bo\$202b2o6b3o\$159bo49b2obo\$158b3o48b3o\$157b2obo49b2o23bo\$157b3o74b3o\$158b2o73b2obo\$233b3o\$234b2o3\$243bo\$242b3o\$242bob2o\$243b3o\$235b3o5b2o\$202b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$202bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$202bo17bo16bo\$146bo16b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$147b2o13bo2bo36bo18bobo\$146b2o17bo37bobo\$165bo\$162bobo3\$220bo\$219b3o\$218b2obo\$218b3o\$213bo5b2o\$212b3o\$212bob2o\$213b3o5bo\$213b2o5b3o\$169bo50bob2o\$168b3o50b3o\$168bob2o49b2o22bo\$169b3o72b3o\$169b2o73bob2o\$245b3o\$245b2o3\$253bo\$252b3o\$251b2obo\$251b3o\$245b3o4b2o\$212b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$211bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$214bo17bo12bo\$173b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$173bo2bo37bo14bobo\$173bo37bobo\$173bo\$174bobo3\$230bo\$229b3o\$229bob2o\$162bo67b3o\$160bobo60bo6b2o\$161b2o59b3o\$221b2obo\$221b3o7bo\$222b2o6b3o\$179bo49b2obo\$178b3o48b3o\$177b2obo49b2o23bo\$177b3o74b3o\$178b2o73b2obo\$253b3o\$254b2o3\$263bo\$262b3o\$262bob2o\$263b3o\$255b3o5b2o\$222b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$222bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$222bo17bo16bo\$183b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$182bo2bo36bo18bobo\$185bo37bobo\$185bo\$182bobo3\$240bo\$239b3o\$238b2obo\$238b3o\$233bo5b2o\$232b3o\$232bob2o\$233b3o5bo\$233b2o5b3o\$189bo50bob2o\$188b3o50b3o\$188bob2o49b2o22bo\$189b3o72b3o\$175bobo11b2o73bob2o\$176b2o87b3o\$176bo88b2o3\$273bo\$272b3o\$271b2obo\$271b3o\$265b3o4b2o\$232b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$231bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$234bo17bo12bo\$193b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$193bo2bo37bo14bobo\$193bo37bobo\$193bo\$194bobo3\$250bo\$249b3o\$249bob2o\$250b3o\$243bo6b2o\$242b3o\$241b2obo\$241b3o7bo\$242b2o6b3o\$199bo49b2obo\$198b3o48b3o\$197b2obo49b2o23bo\$197b3o74b3o\$198b2o73b2obo\$273b3o\$274b2o3\$283bo\$282b3o\$282bob2o\$283b3o\$191bo83b3o5b2o\$192bo49b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$190b3o49bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$242bo17bo16bo\$203b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$202bo2bo36bo18bobo\$205bo37bobo\$205bo\$202bobo3\$260bo\$259b3o\$258b2obo\$258b3o\$253bo5b2o\$252b3o\$252bob2o\$253b3o5bo\$253b2o5b3o\$209bo50bob2o\$208b3o50b3o\$208bob2o49b2o22bo\$209b3o72b3o\$209b2o73bob2o\$285b3o\$285b2o3\$293bo\$292b3o\$291b2obo\$291b3o\$285b3o4b2o\$252b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$251bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$254bo17bo12bo\$213b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$213bo2bo37bo14bobo\$213bo37bobo\$213bo\$214bobo2\$205bo\$206b2o62bo\$205b2o62b3o\$269bob2o\$270b3o\$263bo6b2o\$262b3o\$261b2obo\$261b3o7bo\$262b2o6b3o\$219bo49b2obo\$218b3o48b3o\$217b2obo49b2o23bo\$217b3o74b3o\$218b2o73b2obo\$293b3o\$294b2o3\$303bo\$302b3o\$302bob2o\$303b3o\$295b3o5b2o\$262b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$262bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$262bo17bo16bo\$223b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$222bo2bo36bo18bobo\$225bo37bobo\$225bo\$222bobo3\$280bo\$279b3o\$278b2obo\$278b3o\$273bo5b2o\$272b3o\$272bob2o\$273b3o5bo\$273b2o5b3o\$221bo7bo50bob2o\$219bobo6b3o50b3o\$220b2o6bob2o49b2o22bo\$229b3o72b3o\$229b2o73bob2o\$305b3o\$305b2o3\$313bo\$312b3o\$311b2obo\$311b3o\$305b3o4b2o\$272b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$271bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$274bo17bo12bo\$233b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$233bo2bo37bo14bobo\$233bo37bobo\$233bo\$234bobo3\$290bo\$289b3o\$289bob2o\$290b3o\$283bo6b2o\$282b3o\$281b2obo\$281b3o7bo\$282b2o6b3o\$239bo49b2obo\$238b3o48b3o\$237b2obo49b2o23bo\$237b3o74b3o\$238b2o73b2obo\$313b3o\$314b2o3\$162b2o159bo\$158b4ob2o69bobo85b3o\$158b6o71b2o85bob2o\$159b4o72bo87b3o\$315b3o5b2o\$282b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$282bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$282bo17bo16bo\$243b3o36bo3bo13bo13bobo\$242bo2bo36bo18bobo\$245bo37bobo\$245bo\$242bobo3\$300bo\$299b3o\$298b2obo\$298b3o\$293bo5b2o\$292b3o\$292bob2o\$293b3o5bo\$293b2o5b3o\$249bo50bob2o\$248b3o50b3o\$248bob2o49b2o22bo\$249b3o72b3o\$249b2o73bob2o\$325b3o\$325b2o3\$333bo\$332b3o\$331b2obo\$331b3o\$325b3o4b2o\$292b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$291bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$294bo17bo12bo\$253b3o34bo3bo17bo13bobo\$253bo2bo37bo14bobo\$253bo37bobo\$253bo\$228b4o22bobo\$227b6o\$174b2o51b4ob2o\$172bo4bo53b2o77bo\$178bo130b3o\$172bo5bo130bob2o\$173b6o40bo90b3o\$219b2o82bo6b2o\$218bobo81b3o\$301b2obo\$214bo86b3o7bo\$206b3o5b2o86b2o6b3o\$208bo4bobo43bo49b2obo\$207bo40b2o8b3o48b3o\$249b2o6b2obo49b2o23bo\$248bo8b3o74b3o\$258b2o73b2obo\$236b2o5b2o88b3o\$235bobo6b2o88b2o\$237bo5bo2\$343bo\$342b3o\$342bob2o\$343b3o\$335b3o5b2o\$302b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$302bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$302bo17bo16bo\$302bo3bo13bo13bobo\$302bo18bobo\$303bobo5\$320bo\$319b3o\$318b2obo\$318b3o\$313bo5b2o\$312b3o\$312bob2o\$313b3o5bo\$313b2o5b3o\$269bo50bob2o\$268b3o50b3o\$268bob2o49b2o22bo\$269b3o72b3o\$269b2o73bob2o\$242b6o97b3o\$241bo5bo97b2o\$247bo\$241bo4bo\$243b2o108bo\$352b3o\$233b3o115b2obo\$235bo115b3o\$234bo110b3o4b2o\$312b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$221b2o5b3o80bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$222b2o6bo83bo17bo12bo\$221bo7bo33b2o45bo3bo17bo13bobo\$262bobo49bo14bobo\$264bo46bobo2\$251bo6b2o\$251b2o4bobo\$250bobo6bo\$330bo\$329b3o\$329bob2o\$330b3o\$323bo6b2o\$322b3o\$321b2obo\$321b3o7bo\$322b2o6b3o\$329b2obo\$329b3o\$330b2o23bo\$354b3o\$353b2obo\$353b3o\$354b2o2\$250b4o\$249bo3bo109bo\$253bo108b3o\$249bo2bo109bob2o\$363b3o\$355b3o5b2o\$322b3o15b3o11bo2bo\$322bo2bo14bo2bo13bo\$322bo17bo16bo\$322bo3bo13bo13bobo\$322bo18bobo\$323bobo5\$340bo\$339b3o\$338b2obo\$338b3o\$333bo5b2o\$332b3o\$332bob2o\$333b3o5bo\$333b2o5b3o\$340bob2o\$341b3o\$341b2o22bo\$364b3o\$364bob2o\$365b3o\$365b2o3\$373bo\$372b3o\$371b2obo\$371b3o\$365b3o4b2o\$332b3o15b3o12bo2bo\$331bo2bo14bo2bo12bo\$334bo17bo12bo\$330bo3bo17bo13bobo\$334bo14bobo\$331bobo\$318bo2bo\$322bo\$318bo3bo\$319b4o\$350bo\$304b2o43b3o\$305b2o42bob2o\$304bo45b3o\$299bo43bo6b2o\$299b2o41b3o\$298bobo40b2obo\$334bo6b3o7bo\$304bo29b2o6b2o6b3o\$304b2o27bobo13b2obo\$303bobo43b3o\$328b2o20b2o23bo\$329b2o43b3o\$328bo44b2obo\$373b3o\$333b2o39b2o\$334b2o\$333bo\$383bo\$382b3o\$382bob2o\$383b3o\$375b3o5b2o\$360b3o11bo2bo\$360bo2bo13bo\$360bo16bo\$360bo13bobo\$361bobo6\$360bo\$359b3o\$358b2obo\$358b3o\$353bo5b2o\$352b3o\$352bob2o\$353b3o5bo\$353b2o5b3o\$360bob2o\$361b3o\$361b2o22bo\$384b3o\$384bob2o\$385b3o\$385b2o3\$393bo\$392b3o\$391b2obo\$391b3o\$385b3o4b2o\$370b3o12bo2bo\$369bo2bo12bo\$372bo12bo\$372bo13bobo\$278b2o89bobo\$276bo4bo\$282bo\$276bo5bo\$277b6o2\$370bo\$369b3o\$369bob2o\$370b3o\$363bo6b2o\$362b3o\$361b2obo\$361b3o7bo\$362b2o6b3o\$369b2obo\$369b3o\$370b2o23bo\$394b3o\$393b2obo\$393b3o\$394b2o3\$403bo\$402b3o\$402bob2o\$403b3o\$395b3o5b2o\$380b3o11bo2bo\$380bo2bo13bo\$380bo16bo\$380bo13bobo\$381bobo6\$380bo\$379b3o\$378b2obo\$378b3o\$373bo5b2o\$372b3o\$372bob2o\$373b3o5bo\$373b2o5b3o\$346b6o28bob2o\$345bo5bo29b3o\$351bo29b2o22bo\$345bo4bo53b3o\$347b2o55bob2o\$405b3o\$337b3o65b2o\$339bo\$338bo\$413bo\$325b2o5b3o77b3o\$326b2o6bo76b2obo\$325bo7bo33b2o42b3o\$366bobo36b3o4b2o\$368bo21b3o12bo2bo\$389bo2bo12bo\$355bo6b2o28bo12bo\$305b6o44b2o4bobo28bo13bobo\$304bo5bo43bobo6bo25bobo\$310bo\$304bo4bo\$306b2o3\$390bo\$389b3o\$389bob2o\$390b3o\$390b2o3\$391bo\$390b3o\$389b2obo\$389b3o\$390b2o23bo\$414b3o\$413b2obo\$413b3o\$414b2o3\$423bo\$422b3o\$422bob2o\$423b3o\$415b3o5b2o\$400b3o11bo2bo\$400bo2bo13bo\$400bo16bo\$400bo13bobo\$401bobo6\$316b6o78bo\$315bo5bo77b3o\$321bo76b2obo\$315bo4bo77b3o\$317b2o56b2o22b2o\$373bo4bo\$379bo\$373bo5bo21bo\$374b6o20b3o\$400bob2o\$401b3o\$365b2o34b2o22bo\$364bobo57b3o\$366bo57bob2o\$425b3o\$353bo6b2o63b2o\$353b2o4bobo\$352bobo6bo\$394b3o36bo\$396bo35b3o\$395bo35b2obo\$431b3o\$382b2o5b3o33b3o4b2o\$383b2o6bo18b3o12bo2bo\$382bo7bo18bo2bo12bo\$412bo12bo\$412bo13bobo\$409bobo13\$411bo\$410b3o\$409b2obo\$409b3o\$386b2o22b2o23bo\$384bo4bo44b3o\$390bo42b2obo\$384bo5bo42b3o\$337b4o4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Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

Posts: 504
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Great!
Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
Moderator

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

2 LWSS synth. I've been trying to get clever with leftover stills to clean up the glider streams created on the left track, I squeezed this one quite close. This beast is fascinating to watch at x8, because it's still small enough (pop 33.6k) to render quickly, and the complex things on the left side go all over the place.
knightship two synth.mc

The next helix element is a MWSS, for which I don't yet have the NE forward rake designed. After that it should be smooth sailing.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

I can't really understand the structure behind it, but it looks like we can now see a spine showing up, at least for LWSS synthesis. Could you maybe elaborate a little bit how you do the arithmetic of periods and offsets, maybe illustrating it with some components labeled with extended LifeHistory states?

Overall, it seems that the monster is going to be the most alien creature I've seen so far in Conway's Game of Life. Running on glider tracks, supported by spaceships, but moving with a completely ridiculous speed and slope, and being a universal constructor, to say the least.
Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

codeholic wrote:Overall, it seems that the monster is going to be the most alien creature I've seen so far in Conway's Game of Life

I was also thinking about knighship caterpillars design, as the engineless ship can be adjusted to support knightships as well. This idea to use glider salvos + *WSS salvo as "dynamic" edge shooters (that don't stand on the path of raising helix, like it would if we use regular caterpillar), is great design pattern, that any caterpillar knightship will need to implement (or something of the sort).

I see what "alien" about biggiemac specific design, but think of it as first caterpillar- knightship. As the currently existing knightships are moving very slowly, and current caterpillars designs are not so "knightship" friendly (the raising helix is usually "edgy" - and works only with orthogonal ships), in this sense biggiemac design is real break-through.

simsim314

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

simsim314 wrote:I was also thinking about knighship caterpillars design, as the engineless ship can be adjusted to support knightships as well.

Not without major changes to the design. The problem is that you can't read an oblique tape with spaceships moving orthogonally.
simsim314 wrote:This idea to use glider salvos + *WSS salvo as "dynamic" edge shooters (that don't stand on the path of raising helix, like it would if we use regular caterpillar), is great design pattern, that any caterpillar knightship will need to implement (or something of the sort).

But maybe I just didn't understand this part.
simsim314 wrote:(the raising helix is usually "edgy" - and works only with orthogonal ships),

I don't see why it wouldn't work with gliders. Actually I was about to write a helix script for glider streams, but there has been no good use for it, so I didn't have enough motivation.
Ivan Fomichev

codeholic
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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Really, in essence, it is just a caterpillar. The most noteworthy difference is that the tracks on which it runs are in motion, unlike the blocks or blinkers of previous caterpillars, so timing is important. The most frustrating design difficulty is that EVERY reaction is a rake, even if the rake is useless.

There are additional constraints on what components can be used to synthesize the helix due to the direction. The post I made recently about angles shows that slow salvos are out and that SE gliders are almost useless, because they don't give a reasonable approach angle to the helix. Angles are a function of both the component velocity and the caterpillar velocity though, so the same might not be the case for every design - in a 13, 1 caterpillar the SE gliders would be able to help synthesize N *WSS.

In general, I'm sure gliders and *WSS could work together to form a helix as long as the caterpillar velocity was sufficiently low that gliders would reach, but there would also likely be "coming from infinity" problems.

I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with LifeHistory and how it would help demonstrate the inner workings of this knightship. The "spine" of this ship is a pair of track clusters. In terms of the notation I set up, the first is a 31-2 track. This is capable of constructing beehive trails of alternating parity. It can also use the leftmost track as a rake and the 2 track can cleanly rephase itself.

The second is a 316-2-190-263 track. It begins as a 31-2 track to construct the other two, and then rephases the 2 component 15 times (31-95*15 mod 342 = 316) to be useful in the glider pair rake (that's the large stream of rephasers towards the top of the second cluster). Summing 316 + 2 + 190 + 263 mod 342, we get 87: the leftmost and rightmost elements of this cluster are at the proper track separation to set up the forward rake. The second track from the right can either activate the forward rake, or destroy the boat, in either case staying in phase with the rest. If this trio and the 2 track both act once, this allows the second cluster to rephase cleanly, as it does 9 times between the first and second synthesis. This cluster is pretty straightforward.

The real work that exists in designing this is matching everything up. I begin with the NE gliders. Changing the time of their creation by 4 generations translates them any multiple of (2,2) NE, thus on the same hd. Adding one more rephasing reaction before creating them translates them 3hd. So I match them to the parity of the helix with regards to the LWSS+2G->LWSS synthesis (in the second case, I also matched them to the block debris), and then I paste in the viable LWSS side rake streams. If I delay the NE rake creation by 52 generations, it once again matches, so it gives an array of possible LWSS streams. I select the one that looks most promising, and trace it backwards to the 31-2 cluster. The cluster itself has only a 1/342 chance of being able to create that stream as is, but it can create beehive trails and produce a new 31-2 cluster that always can (with at most one rephasing beforehand to account for the parity of the beehive trail). Cluster creation is still not clean, but I've been getting creative with still lives that absorb the glider output. This new track produces the LWSS and then I find a way to destroy it. Often times the NE rake also needs glider support; by burning a beehive trail this is an easy task.

Hope this helps! If you can give me advice as to how to illustrate this in LifeHistory that would be fantastic, as I get the feeling that my explanations thus far are not in satisfyingly clear language..
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

codeholic wrote:Not without major changes to the design. The problem is that you can't read an oblique tape with spaceships moving orthogonally.

Why exactly? Am I missing something?

`x = 241, y = 761, rule = B3/S2316b2o\$15b3o\$15b3o\$15b3o\$15b2obo\$16b3o\$17bo4\$27b2o\$26b3o\$26b3o\$26b2obo\$27b3o\$28bo14\$15b2o\$14b3o\$14b3o\$14b3o\$14b2obo\$15b3o\$16bo2\$b2o\$3o\$3o\$3o\$2obo\$b3o\$2bo64\$64bobo\$67bo\$63bo3bo\$63bo3bo\$67bo17b2o\$64bo2bo17b3o\$65b3o17b3o\$85b3o\$84bob2o\$84b3o\$85bo39\$62bobo\$61bo\$61bo3bo\$61bo\$61bo2bo\$61b3o23\$67b2o\$66b3o\$66b3o\$66b3o\$66b2obo\$67b3o\$68bo4\$78b2o\$77b3o\$77b3o\$77b2obo\$78b3o\$79bo14\$66b2o\$65b3o\$65b3o\$65b3o\$65b2obo\$66b3o\$67bo2\$52b2o\$51b3o\$51b3o\$51b3o\$51b2obo\$52b3o\$53bo64\$115bobo\$118bo\$114bo3bo\$114bo3bo\$118bo17b2o\$115bo2bo17b3o\$116b3o17b3o\$136b3o\$135bob2o\$135b3o\$136bo39\$113bobo\$112bo\$112bo3bo\$112bo\$112bo2bo\$112b3o23\$118b2o\$117b3o\$117b3o\$117b3o\$117b2obo\$118b3o\$119bo4\$129b2o\$128b3o\$128b3o\$128b2obo\$129b3o\$130bo14\$117b2o\$116b3o\$116b3o\$116b3o\$116b2obo\$117b3o\$118bo2\$103b2o\$102b3o\$102b3o\$102b3o\$102b2obo\$103b3o\$104bo64\$166bobo\$169bo\$165bo3bo\$165bo3bo\$169bo17b2o\$166bo2bo17b3o\$167b3o17b3o\$187b3o\$186bob2o\$186b3o\$187bo39\$164bobo\$163bo\$163bo3bo\$163bo\$163bo2bo\$163b3o23\$169b2o\$168b3o\$168b3o\$168b3o\$168b2obo\$169b3o\$170bo4\$180b2o\$179b3o\$179b3o\$179b2obo\$180b3o\$181bo14\$168b2o\$167b3o\$167b3o\$167b3o\$167b2obo\$168b3o\$169bo2\$154b2o\$153b3o\$153b3o\$153b3o\$153b2obo\$154b3o\$155bo64\$217bobo\$220bo\$216bo3bo\$216bo3bo\$220bo17b2o\$217bo2bo17b3o\$218b3o17b3o\$238b3o\$237bob2o\$237b3o\$238bo39\$215bobo\$214bo6b2o\$214bo3bobo2bo\$214bo5bobo\$214bo2bo3bo\$214b3o44\$221b2o\$220bo2bo\$220bobo\$221bo!`

codeholic wrote:I don't see why it wouldn't work with gliders.

You need three directions - two direction for collision, and another for helix stream output. You can have two glider streams that generate *WSS stream, you can have two *WSS stream that generate glider stream, you can have *WSS + glider stream that generate glider or *WSS helix. But you can't manage with gliders alone. And gliders limited to c/4 - but other than that, you can use gliders of course.

simsim314

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### Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Proposed MWSS synth mechanism. The pairs can be created from a normal rake + kickback like the pairs for the LWSS, the third relies on the slow salvo inserter posted elsewhere (thanks simsim314!) The p158 block filters out appropriately, and everything else is known. All that's left is using the 316-2-190-263 track to construct that boat/ship combo.

`x = 394, y = 177, rule = B3/S23\$116bobo\$117b2o\$117bo40\$132bo\$133bo\$131b3o2\$157b2o\$157bobo\$158b2o\$154b2o\$153bobo183b2o\$154bo184b2o18\$152b2o\$152bobo\$153b2o\$149b2o\$148bobo\$149bo9\$b2o\$obo\$2bo143bo\$16bo130b2o\$6b2o8b2o128b2o\$5bobo7bobo\$7bo\$21bo8b3o\$21b2o9bo\$20bobo8bo115b2o\$45b2o100bobo\$35b3o8b2o100b2o\$37bo7bo98b2o\$36bo23b2o81bobo183b2o\$50b2o7bobo82bo184b2o\$51b2o8bo\$50bo24bo\$65b2o8b2o\$64bobo7bobo\$66bo\$80bo8b3o\$80b2o9bo\$79bobo8bo\$104b2o\$94b3o8b2o200b2o\$96bo7bo201b4o\$95bo23b2o185b2ob2o\$109b2o7bobo187b2o\$110b2o8bo\$109bo24bo19b2o\$124b2o8b2o17bobo223bo\$123bobo7bobo19bo222b3o\$125bo43bo207b2obo\$139bo8b3o18b2o206b3o\$139b2o9bo17bobo206b3o\$138bobo8bo228b2o\$163b2o18b3o\$153b3o8b2o19bo\$155bo7bo20bo\$154bo23b2o18b2o\$168b2o7bobo19b2o\$169b2o8bo18bo\$168bo24bo19b2o\$183b2o8b2o17bobo\$182bobo7bobo19bo\$184bo43bo\$198bo8b3o18b2o\$198b2o9bo17bobo\$197bobo8bo\$222b2o18b3o\$212b3o8b2o19bo\$214bo7bo20bo\$213bo23b2o18b2o\$227b2o7bobo19b2o\$228b2o8bo18bo\$227bo24bo19b2o\$242b2o8b2o17bobo\$241bobo7bobo19bo\$243bo43bo\$257bo8b3o18b2o30b2o\$257b2o9bo17bobo30b2o\$256bobo8bo\$281b2o18b3o\$271b3o8b2o19bo85bo\$273bo7bo20bo85b3o\$272bo23b2o18b2o70bob2o\$286b2o7bobo19b2o70b3o\$287b2o8bo18bo72b3o\$286bo24bo19b2o56b2o\$301b2o8b2o17bobo\$300bobo7bobo19bo\$302bo74b2o\$316bo8b3o47b2ob2o\$316b2o9bo47b4o\$315bobo8bo49b2o\$360b3o\$330b3o29bo\$332bo28bo\$331bo23b2o\$354bobo\$356bo\$390b2o\$360b2o27bobo\$359bobo29bo\$361bo\$384b3o\$386bo\$385bo2\$389b3o\$391bo\$390bo!`

Plan for boat/ship construction - two g+g for base and then 7 slow salvo steps. The NE gliders are all on congruent hd mod 3 along with the first element of the NE rake, so they can be constructed simply with the 316-2-190-263 track (yay). The SE gliders might need to come from the left cluster, although any that can will come from the 2-track.
`x = 66, y = 110, rule = B3/S23\$22bo\$20bobo\$21b2o5\$27bo\$25bobo\$26b2o7\$42bo\$43bo\$41b3o4\$64bo\$62bobo\$63b2o14\$59bo\$60bo\$58b3o5\$55b3o\$57bo\$56bo5\$63b3o\$65bo\$64bo4\$57b2o\$56bobo\$58bo26\$17b2o\$16bobo\$18bo8\$b2o\$obo\$2bo8\$9b2o\$8bobo\$10bo!`

This could end up a bit of a space-suck, but it's going to be possible. If anyone has a better slow salvo under the present constraints I'd be happy to see it!
Last edited by biggiemac on December 4th, 2014, 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.

biggiemac

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