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(23,5)c/79 spaceship components

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » August 1st, 2013, 4:16 pm

oblique wrote:BTW: for one arcane reason I seem unable to find even the base reaction with gencols itself.

I used something like

gencols -pat herschel.life obj/glider.list -nph 4 -tc 5 80 -gen 80 -nosynch -test1 herschel79.life -filt ap

(I tried all kinds of variantions with or without the -nosynch and with any kind of filter ...)

The method should be simliar to what the bhep-halfpuffer example included with gencols does.


The following worked for me:
./gencols -pat herschel.life obj/glider.list -nph 4 -tc 5 80 -gen 80 -test1 herschel79.life -filt ap


Did the bhep-halfpuffer example work on your machine? I got a similar problem with bhep-halfpuffer on Mac OS X.

The reason why I asked about the method you used is that gencols is actually unable to find such a collision without additional effort or code modification, as far as I know, because it doesn't keep the position of the initial pattern after colliding it for the first time in the output, therefore the test pattern for the second collision is displaced.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » August 1st, 2013, 5:10 pm

Extrementhusiast wrote:Not bad! What's interesting is that the HWSS-LWSS salvo that collides with the block can be delayed for however long is necessary.

Now for the fanout devices.

Thanx. BTW: leaving the block out of the way of the rest of the helix-reaction was a design-goal ;)


codeholic wrote:
oblique wrote:I found a helix ....

Congrats! Very well done! It seems that you found a way to make use of g+3ss collisions. Just out of curiosity, have you tried to find a shorter helix for the caterpillar using the extended collision database?

Not yet. Since I only have that DB and no helix compiling program (yet) I used just some simple SQL and a lot of cut, paste and puzzle.

codeholic wrote:
oblique wrote:The next (fairly easy) step is to use the reactions of the original caterpillar (or something like them) to fill in the gaps and to build at least one other trails (codeholic found ways to create more the trails if you have at least two of them).

It is quite probable, that two initial tracks won't suffice, because there has to be a mechanism for adjusting track periods and it cannot be done as easy as in the caterpillar because of sideways gliders that Herschels emit compared to clean pies travelling along blinker tracks.

I have not tried yet to design trails and tracks ...
But yes - the fact that we have no rakeless version of the base reaction might be a problem.
Maybe we could place two trails so close to each other that two base reactions interfer in just the right ways ...

codeholic wrote:
oblique wrote:The next BIG problem will be how create p316 rakes ...


When building the caterpillar they minimized the number of long-period rakes by using kickback reactions. E. g. the following is LWSS synthesis taken from robocat.zip

x = 452, y = 790, rule = B3/S23
319bo$320bo$318b3o8$73bo$74b2o$73b2o$8bo$9b2o$8b2o6$138bobo$139b2o$
139bo5$223bo$221bobo$222b2o67$53bo$53b2o$52bobo22$15b2o$16b2o$15bo9$
120b2o$121b2o$120bo21$83bo$83b2o$82bobo$448b3o$448bo2bo$448bo$448bo$
449bobo4$188bo$188b2o$187bobo2$387bo$385bobo$386b2o8$140bobo$141b2o$
141bo$75bobo$76b2o$76bo5$150b2o54bo$151b2o54b2o239b3o$150bo55b2o239bo
2bo$450bo$450bo$447bobo2$290bo$291bo$289b3o2$255b2o$256b2o$255bo21$
218bo229b3o$218b2o228bo2bo$217bobo228bo$448bo$449bobo7$323bo$323b2o$
322bobo20$448b3o$447bo2bo$285b2o163bo$286b2o162bo$285bo161bobo9$390b2o
$391b2o$390bo18$448b3o$448bo2bo$448bo$448bo$449bobo12$420b3o$420bo$
421bo15$448b3o$447bo2bo$450bo$450bo$447bobo13$353b2o$353bobo$353bo7$
208bo$209b2o$208b2o$143bo$144b2o$143b2o2$448b3o$448bo2bo$448bo$448bo$
273bobo173bobo$274b2o$274bo4$281bobo$281b2o$282bo7$285b3o$285bo$286bo
12$448b3o$447bo2bo$450bo$450bo$447bobo29$448b3o$448bo2bo$448bo$448bo$
449bobo29$448b3o$447bo2bo$450bo$450bo$447bobo13$b3o$3bo$2bo14$448b3o$
448bo2bo$448bo$448bo$449bobo14$69b2o$68bobo$70bo11$275bobo$276b2o$276b
o171b3o$210bobo234bo2bo$211b2o237bo$211bo238bo$447bobo4$341bo$342b2o$
341b2o3$343bo$341bobo$342b2o5$136b3o$138bo$137bo11$448b3o$448bo2bo$
448bo$448bo$449bobo17$204b2o$b2o200bobo$obo202bo$2bo9$448b3o$447bo2bo$
450bo$450bo$447bobo19$271b3o$68b3o202bo$70bo201bo$69bo7$448b3o$448bo2b
o$448bo$448bo$449bobo21$136b2o$135bobo$137bo6$448b3o$447bo2bo$450bo$
450bo$447bobo23$203b3o$205bo$204bo4$448b3o$297bo150bo2bo$297bobo148bo$
297b2o149bo$449bobo$278bo$279b2o$278b2o6$408bobo$409b2o$409bo2$410bo$
411bo$409b3o9$271b2o$270bobo$272bo3$448b3o$447bo2bo$450bo$450bo$447bob
o20$344b3o$346bo$345bo4$338b3o$340bo$339bo$448b3o$448bo2bo$448bo$448bo
$449bobo21$412b2o$411bobo$413bo4$406b2o$405bobo$407bo40b3o$447bo2bo$
450bo$450bo$447bobo!

That's not quite the same situation: all the glider streams in this pattern already *are* p6*45

The kickbacks are used because the *WSS-syntheses used in the caterpillar need very closly spaced glider salvos:
#C One-sided ship syntheses
x = 234, y = 134
4bo97bo123bo$5bo97b2o122b2o$3b3o96b2o122b2o3$4bo$5b2o$4b2o3$107bobo$
108b2o114b2o$108bo114bobo$225bo10$105b2o$106b2o$105bo6$7bo$7b2o$6bobo$
102b2o$103b2o$102bo$bo$b2o$obo35$197bobo$198b2o$198bo10$210bo$208bobo$
209b2o4$212bo$213bo$211b3o10$233bo$231b3o$230bo$230b2o24$214b2o$215b2o
$214bo!


BTW: If I am not mistaken, the LWSS and the MWSS could be split in to easy reactions ...
gen 44 of the MWSS-syntheses looks like just a blinker an two gl
And gen 49 of LWSS is just block+2gl.
And if I'm not blind the first part is not interacting with the second part of the salvo ...

As for the slow rakes: the filtering trick of the caterpillar might prove hard to duplicate for us.
They use a forward 6x ss-stream to send back a 6x period glider stream the kills every 6th MWSS in an backward stream.

They only need TWO of theese for the whole ship!

This won't work whith our ship, though.

We can't use *WSS because they travel in the wrong direction.
If I get my geometry right, all we can use is gliders (or other (1,1)/2 ships).
And as far as I know you can only use a glider to filter gilders if you let *both* of them die.
Maybe there is a single glider ./. glider flotilla collision that kills the single glider but does not harm the flotilla
Last edited by oblique on August 1st, 2013, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » August 1st, 2013, 5:23 pm

codeholic wrote:
oblique wrote:BTW: for one arcane reason I seem unable to find even the base reaction with gencols itself.

I used something like

gencols -pat herschel.life obj/glider.list -nph 4 -tc 5 80 -gen 80 -nosynch -test1 herschel79.life -filt ap

(I tried all kinds of variantions with or without the -nosynch and with any kind of filter ...)

The method should be simliar to what the bhep-halfpuffer example included with gencols does.


The following worked for me:
./gencols -pat herschel.life obj/glider.list -nph 4 -tc 5 80 -gen 80 -test1 herschel79.life -filt ap


Did the bhep-halfpuffer example work on your machine? I got a similar problem with bhep-halfpuffer on Mac OS X.

The reason why I asked about the method you used is that gencols is actually unable to find such a collision without additional effort or code modification, as far as I know, because it doesn't keep the position of the initial pattern after colliding it for the first time in the output, therefore the test pattern for the second collision is displaced.


Weird. At my computer (linux) it was the other way round. (Bhep-Example works like a charm.)

Anyway for analysing the result of collisions I currently prefer my own piece of stichted-up code. I know it's problems ...
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » August 6th, 2013, 7:15 pm

I wonder, what structure your collision database has. Can you please make it available somewhere, e. g. via Dropbox or something? I'd be interested to try writing a script.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » August 7th, 2013, 12:35 pm

@codeholic: depends on what you want / need.

I have a collection of raw gencol-Outputs or the same collection proccessed by makematrix.

Then I have a collection of sql-Scripts generated by my "pre alpha" pattern analyser ;) (from said gencol-files)
And mysqldump of the resulting DB.

I also have the C-Source of that analyser.

I'm currently reworking that analyser so it can might be useful for more then one purpose without recompiling it ;)

I will be setting up "someplace" where all those will be publically availble "soon".
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » August 7th, 2013, 4:16 pm

Primarily I'm interested in the analyzer (raw gencols output would be interesting too). I'd like to contribute to development of the script, if you don't mind.

Regarding "some place" I would definitely recommend putting everything on GitHub.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » August 8th, 2013, 12:28 pm

As a first step i'll attach the "old" analyser to this post. I'm not able to do more then that today.

The gencols would be much too large to post here. And I have neither an git or an dropbox / whatever account ready.
Attachments
lab.c
(15.57 KiB) Downloaded 414 times
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » August 11th, 2013, 4:53 am

OK ... now for the gencol-Results codeholic has requested ...

Warning: some of the pattern lists are really huge (they are gzip'd so they might look not *that* big, but the biggest is some 800 Megs unzipped).

glider + 3 spaceships -> glider + X
glider + 2 ss -> small pop
All glider + single ss collisions
small still + 2 ss -> small pop
small still + ss -> small pop
blinker + 2 ss

"small still" means block, tub, boat or loaf

"small pop" means gencol ... -leq 10 for something like -gen 10 or -gen 30
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » October 1st, 2013, 1:08 pm

Would you please also post a SQL script for creating the database schema?
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » October 3rd, 2013, 4:20 am

codeholic wrote:Would you please also post a SQL script for creating the database schema?


Oops - sorry. I should have included the DB-Definition in comments within the resulting SQLs ...

Here it is:
CREATE TABLE `pattern` (
  `pId` int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
  `rle` varchar(500) NOT NULL,
  `sizeX` int(11) default NULL,
  `sizeY` int(11) default NULL,
  `start` varchar(20) NOT NULL,
  `sx` int(11) NOT NULL,
  `sy` int(11) NOT NULL,
  `nrResults` int(11) default NULL,
  PRIMARY KEY  (`pId`),
  KEY `rle` (`rle`)
);

CREATE TABLE `result` (
  `pId` int(11) NOT NULL,
  `resNr` int(11) NOT NULL,
  `object` varchar(20) NOT NULL,
  `dt` int(11) NOT NULL,
  `dx` int(11) NOT NULL,
  `dy` int(11) NOT NULL,
  PRIMARY KEY  (`pId`,`resNr`)
);


pattern.pid is an "auto_increment" MySql-int-column - i.e.: if you don't supply any value, the DB takes max(pid)+1
rle is the plain RLE of the pattern (without the leading comment line that normally defines the size)
sizeX and sizeY provide this size (for example for generating an complete RLE with a simple select-statement)
start, sx and sy tell us what was found (start is the name of subpattern, i.e. glider_nw or something, sx, sy are the coordinates).
BTW: the starting pattern is normalised in such a way that the subpattern is about to disappear.
nrResults tells us how many subpatterns have been identified in the result of the evoloutin of the starting pattern.

The table result describes those subpattern(s):
pid is a reference to pattern.pid
resNr is used to enumerate the subpatterns resulting from a given starting pattern.
object is the name of the current result
dt, dx, dy define when and where this object appeared.

So, if you are looking for reactions that take one "glider_nw" and result in exactly one "block" you would do something like:

select result.* from pattern natural left join result where nRes = 1 and start = "glider_nw" and object = "block"
order by dx;


(I'm still working on a better / more flexible version of my "lab" ... alas I haven't had much time for it lately).
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » October 3rd, 2013, 10:16 am

Thank you very much! Your comments are very helpful!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 3rd, 2013, 7:45 pm

I've written a prototype helix search script. Though it does not work well yet and the collision database has to be improved, I've managed to build a p158 helix for a hypothetical (23,5)c/79 spaceship with its help.
x = 91, y = 207, rule = B3/S23
26b2o$25bobo$27bo2b3o$29bo2bo$32bo$28bo3bo$28bo3bo$32bo$29bobo$23b3o
10b3o$17bo5bo2bo8bo2bo$16b3o4bo14bo$15b2obo4bo10bo3bo$15b3o6bobo11bo$
15b3o17bobo$2bo12b3o$b3o12b2o$2obo$3o$3o$3o$b2o2$12b3o$12bo2bo7bo$12bo
9b3o$12bo8b2obo4b3o$13bobo5b3o4bo2bo$22b2o7bo$27bo3bo$27bo3bo$31bo$28b
obo3$40b3o$12bo27bo2bo$11b3o26bo$11bob2o25bo3bo$12b3o25bo3bo$12b3o25bo
$12b2o27bobo$33b3o10b3o$27bo4bo2bo10bo2bo$26b3o6bo10bo$26bob2o5bo10bo
3bo$27b3o2bobo11bo$27b3o17bobo$12bo14b3o$11b3o13b2o$11bob2o$12b3o$12b
3o$12b3o$12b2o2$22b3o$21bo2bo8bo$24bo7b3o$24bo7bob2o3b3o$21bobo9b3o3bo
2bo$33b2o4bo$39bo3bo$39bo3bo$39bo$40bobo3$50b3o$22bo26bo2bo$21b3o28bo$
20b2obo24bo3bo$20b3o25bo3bo$20b3o29bo$21b2o26bobo$43b3o10b3o$37bo5bo2b
o8bo2bo$36b3o4bo14bo$35b2obo4bo10bo3bo$35b3o6bobo11bo$35b3o17bobo$22bo
12b3o$21b3o12b2o$20b2obo$20b3o$20b3o$20b3o$21b2o2$32b3o$32bo2bo7bo$32b
o9b3o$32bo8b2obo4b3o$33bobo5b3o4bo2bo$42b2o7bo$47bo3bo$47bo3bo$51bo$
48bobo3$60b3o$32bo27bo2bo$31b3o26bo$31bob2o25bo3bo$32b3o25bo3bo$32b3o
25bo$32b2o27bobo$53b3o10b3o$47bo4bo2bo10bo2bo$46b3o6bo10bo$46bob2o5bo
10bo3bo$47b3o2bobo11bo$47b3o17bobo$32bo14b3o$31b3o13b2o$31bob2o$32b3o$
32b3o$32b3o$32b2o2$42b3o$41bo2bo8bo$44bo7b3o$44bo7bob2o3b3o$41bobo9b3o
3bo2bo$53b2o4bo$59bo3bo$59bo3bo$59bo$60bobo3$70b3o$42bo26bo2bo$41b3o
28bo$40b2obo24bo3bo$40b3o25bo3bo$40b3o29bo$41b2o26bobo$63b3o10b3o$57bo
5bo2bo8bo2bo$56b3o4bo14bo$55b2obo4bo10bo3bo$55b3o6bobo11bo$55b3o17bobo
$42bo12b3o$41b3o12b2o$40b2obo$40b3o$40b3o$40b3o$41b2o2$52b3o$52bo2bo7b
o$52bo9b3o$52bo8b2obo4b3o$53bobo5b3o4bo2bo$62b2o7bo$67bo3bo$67bo3bo$
71bo$68bobo3$80b3o$52bo27bo2bo$51b3o26bo$51bob2o25bo3bo$52b3o25bo3bo$
52b3o25bo$52b2o27bobo$73b3o10b3o$67bo4bo2bo10bo2bo$66b3o6bo10bo$66bob
2o5bo10bo3bo$67b3o2bobo11bo$67b3o17bobo$52bo14b3o$51b3o13b2o$51bob2o$
52b3o$52b3o$52b3o$52b2o2$62b3o$61bo2bo8bo$64bo7b3o$64bo7bob2o3b3o$61bo
bo9b3o3bo2bo$73b2o4bo$79bo3bo$79bo3bo$79bo$80bobo4$62bo$61b3o$60b2obo$
60b3o$60b3o$61b2o!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby Freywa » December 3rd, 2013, 9:43 pm

codeholic wrote:I've written a prototype helix search script. Though it does not work well yet and the collision database has to be improved, I've managed to build a p158 helix for a hypothetical (23,5)c/79 spaceship with its help.
x = 91, y = 207, rule = B3/S23
26b2o$25bobo$27bo2b3o$29bo2bo$32bo$28bo3bo$28bo3bo$32bo$29bobo$23b3o
10b3o$17bo5bo2bo8bo2bo$16b3o4bo14bo$15b2obo4bo10bo3bo$15b3o6bobo11bo$
15b3o17bobo$2bo12b3o$b3o12b2o$2obo$3o$3o$3o$b2o2$12b3o$12bo2bo7bo$12bo
9b3o$12bo8b2obo4b3o$13bobo5b3o4bo2bo$22b2o7bo$27bo3bo$27bo3bo$31bo$28b
obo3$40b3o$12bo27bo2bo$11b3o26bo$11bob2o25bo3bo$12b3o25bo3bo$12b3o25bo
$12b2o27bobo$33b3o10b3o$27bo4bo2bo10bo2bo$26b3o6bo10bo$26bob2o5bo10bo
3bo$27b3o2bobo11bo$27b3o17bobo$12bo14b3o$11b3o13b2o$11bob2o$12b3o$12b
3o$12b3o$12b2o2$22b3o$21bo2bo8bo$24bo7b3o$24bo7bob2o3b3o$21bobo9b3o3bo
2bo$33b2o4bo$39bo3bo$39bo3bo$39bo$40bobo3$50b3o$22bo26bo2bo$21b3o28bo$
20b2obo24bo3bo$20b3o25bo3bo$20b3o29bo$21b2o26bobo$43b3o10b3o$37bo5bo2b
o8bo2bo$36b3o4bo14bo$35b2obo4bo10bo3bo$35b3o6bobo11bo$35b3o17bobo$22bo
12b3o$21b3o12b2o$20b2obo$20b3o$20b3o$20b3o$21b2o2$32b3o$32bo2bo7bo$32b
o9b3o$32bo8b2obo4b3o$33bobo5b3o4bo2bo$42b2o7bo$47bo3bo$47bo3bo$51bo$
48bobo3$60b3o$32bo27bo2bo$31b3o26bo$31bob2o25bo3bo$32b3o25bo3bo$32b3o
25bo$32b2o27bobo$53b3o10b3o$47bo4bo2bo10bo2bo$46b3o6bo10bo$46bob2o5bo
10bo3bo$47b3o2bobo11bo$47b3o17bobo$32bo14b3o$31b3o13b2o$31bob2o$32b3o$
32b3o$32b3o$32b2o2$42b3o$41bo2bo8bo$44bo7b3o$44bo7bob2o3b3o$41bobo9b3o
3bo2bo$53b2o4bo$59bo3bo$59bo3bo$59bo$60bobo3$70b3o$42bo26bo2bo$41b3o
28bo$40b2obo24bo3bo$40b3o25bo3bo$40b3o29bo$41b2o26bobo$63b3o10b3o$57bo
5bo2bo8bo2bo$56b3o4bo14bo$55b2obo4bo10bo3bo$55b3o6bobo11bo$55b3o17bobo
$42bo12b3o$41b3o12b2o$40b2obo$40b3o$40b3o$40b3o$41b2o2$52b3o$52bo2bo7b
o$52bo9b3o$52bo8b2obo4b3o$53bobo5b3o4bo2bo$62b2o7bo$67bo3bo$67bo3bo$
71bo$68bobo3$80b3o$52bo27bo2bo$51b3o26bo$51bob2o25bo3bo$52b3o25bo3bo$
52b3o25bo$52b2o27bobo$73b3o10b3o$67bo4bo2bo10bo2bo$66b3o6bo10bo$66bob
2o5bo10bo3bo$67b3o2bobo11bo$67b3o17bobo$52bo14b3o$51b3o13b2o$51bob2o$
52b3o$52b3o$52b3o$52b2o2$62b3o$61bo2bo8bo$64bo7b3o$64bo7bob2o3b3o$61bo
bo9b3o3bo2bo$73b2o4bo$79bo3bo$79bo3bo$79bo$80bobo4$62bo$61b3o$60b2obo$
60b3o$60b3o$61b2o!

That was a long wait, but at least we have some progress.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » December 4th, 2013, 2:38 pm

codeholic wrote:I've written a prototype helix search script. Though it does not work well yet and the collision database has to be improved, I've managed to build a p158 helix for a hypothetical (23,5)c/79 spaceship with its help.

Very NICE!

There is still the issue that we don't have a period-doubler/filter mechanism ... yet

I hope to find some time to spare for GoL in december, so I could rejoin the search.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 8th, 2013, 4:13 pm

A smaller p158 (x2) helix with as few as 6 lightweight spaceships per cycle.
x = 77, y = 199, rule = B3/S23
15b3o$15bo2bo$10b2o3bo$9bobo3bo$11bo4bobo3$23b3o$22bo2bo$25bo$17bo7bo$
2bo13b3o3bobo$b3o11b2obo$bob2o10b3o$2b3o11b2o$2b2o7$3o$o2bo$o$o$bobo3$
b3o$o2bo$3bo$3bo$obo22b3o$24bo2bo$27bo$27bo$24bobo3$33b3o$33bo2bo$33bo
$27bo5bo$12bo13b3o5bobo$11b3o12bob2o$10b2obo13b3o$10b3o14b2o$11b2o7$
10b3o$9bo2bo$12bo$12bo$9bobo3$11b3o$11bo2bo$11bo$11bo$12bobo20b3o$35bo
2bo$35bo$35bo$36bobo3$43b3o$42bo2bo$45bo$37bo7bo$22bo13b3o3bobo$21b3o
11b2obo$21bob2o10b3o$22b3o11b2o$22b2o7$20b3o$20bo2bo$20bo$20bo$21bobo
3$21b3o$20bo2bo$23bo$23bo$20bobo22b3o$44bo2bo$47bo$47bo$44bobo3$53b3o$
53bo2bo$53bo$47bo5bo$32bo13b3o5bobo$31b3o12bob2o$30b2obo13b3o$30b3o14b
2o$31b2o7$30b3o$29bo2bo$32bo$32bo$29bobo3$31b3o$31bo2bo$31bo$31bo$32bo
bo20b3o$55bo2bo$55bo$55bo$56bobo3$63b3o$62bo2bo$65bo$57bo7bo$42bo13b3o
3bobo$41b3o11b2obo$41bob2o10b3o$42b3o11b2o$42b2o7$40b3o$40bo2bo$40bo$
40bo$41bobo3$41b3o$40bo2bo$43bo$43bo$40bobo22b3o$64bo2bo$67bo$67bo$64b
obo3$73b3o$73bo2bo$73bo$67bo5bo$52bo13b3o5bobo$51b3o12bob2o$50b2obo13b
3o$50b3o14b2o$51b2o7$50b3o$49bo2bo$52bo$52bo$49bobo3$51b3o$51bo2bo$51b
o$51bo$52bobo!

EDIT: Starting with a forward glider might be actually more useful for fanout devices:
x = 77, y = 204, rule = B3/S23
15b3o$15bo2bo$10b2o3bo$9bobo3bo$11bo4bobo3$23b3o$22bo2bo$25bo$17bo7bo$
2bo13b3o3bobo$b3o11b2obo$bob2o10b3o$2b3o11b2o$2b2o7$3o$o2bo$o$o$bobo7$
25b3o$7b3o14bo2bo$6bo2bo17bo$9bo17bo$9bo14bobo$6bobo2$33b3o$33bo2bo$
33bo$27bo5bo$12bo13b3o5bobo$11b3o12bob2o$10b2obo13b3o$10b3o14b2o$11b2o
7$10b3o$9bo2bo$12bo$12bo$9bobo7$35b3o$17b3o15bo2bo$17bo2bo14bo$17bo17b
o$17bo18bobo$18bobo2$43b3o$42bo2bo$45bo$37bo7bo$22bo13b3o3bobo$21b3o
11b2obo$21bob2o10b3o$22b3o11b2o$22b2o7$20b3o$20bo2bo$20bo$20bo$21bobo
7$45b3o$27b3o14bo2bo$26bo2bo17bo$29bo17bo$29bo14bobo$26bobo2$53b3o$53b
o2bo$53bo$47bo5bo$32bo13b3o5bobo$31b3o12bob2o$30b2obo13b3o$30b3o14b2o$
31b2o7$30b3o$29bo2bo$32bo$32bo$29bobo7$55b3o$37b3o15bo2bo$37bo2bo14bo$
37bo17bo$37bo18bobo$38bobo2$63b3o$62bo2bo$65bo$57bo7bo$42bo13b3o3bobo$
41b3o11b2obo$41bob2o10b3o$42b3o11b2o$42b2o7$40b3o$40bo2bo$40bo$40bo$
41bobo7$65b3o$47b3o14bo2bo$46bo2bo17bo$49bo17bo$49bo14bobo$46bobo2$73b
3o$73bo2bo$73bo$67bo5bo$52bo13b3o5bobo$51b3o12bob2o$50b2obo13b3o$50b3o
14b2o$51b2o7$50b3o$49bo2bo$52bo$52bo$49bobo8$57b3o$57bo2bo$57bo$57bo$
58bobo!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 8th, 2013, 5:47 pm

oblique wrote:We can't use *WSS because they travel in the wrong direction.
If I get my geometry right, all we can use is gliders (or other (1,1)/2 ships).
And as far as I know you can only use a glider to filter gilders if you let *both* of them die.
Maybe there is a single glider ./. glider flotilla collision that kills the single glider but does not harm the flotilla


I've found a way to build a filter without destroying the template:
x = 353, y = 368, rule = B3/S23
350bo$350bobo$350b2o83$301bo$300bo$300b3o52$188b2o$188b2o4$193bo$192bo
bo$192bobo$193bo15$183b2o$183b2o4$188bo$187bobo$187bobo$188bo$251bo$
251bobo$251b2o12$178b2o$178b2o4$183bo$182bobo$182bobo$183bo15$173b2o$
173b2o4$178bo$177bobo$177bobo$178bo15$168b2o$168b2o4$173bo$172bobo$
172bobo$173bo15$163b2o$163b2o$202bo$201bo$201b3o$168bo$167bobo$167bobo
$168bo15$158b2o$158b2o4$163bo$162bobo$162bobo$163bo15$153b2o$153b2o4$
158bo$157bobo$157bobo$158bo15$148b2o$148b2o4$153bo$152bobo$152bobo$
153bo5$2o$b2o$o$15b2o$14bobo$16bo$30bo121bo$30b2o120bobo$29bobo120b2o
2$44b3o96b2o$46bo96b2o$45bo$59b2o$60b2o$59bo88bo$74b2o71bobo$73bobo71b
obo$75bo72bo$89bo$89b2o$88bobo2$103b3o$105bo$104bo$118b2o$119b2o$118bo
$133b2o$132bobo$134bo!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 22nd, 2013, 11:06 am

A fanout device can be built with as few as 2 spaceships:
x = 122, y = 252, rule = B3/S23
46bo$37bo7b2o$36b3o6bobo5b2o$35b2obo14b2o$35b3o15b2o$36b2o11bobo5b2o$
49bo2b3o2b2o$51b4o$49bo$56bo$55b3o2$35b3o$34bo2bo$37bo$37bo$34bobo3$
36b3o$36bo2bo$36bo$36bo$37bobo20b3o$60bo2bo$60bo$60bo$61bobo3$68b3o$
67bo2bo$70bo$62bo7bo$29bo17bo13b3o3bobo$28b3o15b3o11b2obo$28bob2o14bob
2o10b3o$29b3o15b3o11b2o$13bo15b3o15b2o$12bobo14b2o$12bo2bo$13b2o4$45b
3o$45bo2bo$45bo$45bo$38b3o5bobo$37bo2bo$40bo$40bo5b3o$37bobo5bo2bo$48b
o$48bo$15bo29bobo22b3o$13b2o54bo2bo$14b2o56bo$72bo$69bobo3$78b3o$78bo
2bo$78bo$72bo5bo$39bo17bo13b3o5bobo$38b3o15b3o12bob2o$37b2obo14b2obo
13b3o$37b3o15b3o14b2o$3o34b3o16b2o$bo36b2o$b3o5$55b3o$54bo2bo$57bo$57b
o$48b3o3bobo$48bo2bo$48bo$48bo7b3o$49bobo4bo2bo$56bo$56bo$57bobo20b3o$
80bo2bo$80bo$80bo$81bobo3$88b3o$87bo2bo$90bo$82bo7bo$49bo17bo13b3o3bob
o$48b3o15b3o11b2obo$48bob2o14bob2o10b3o$49b3o15b3o11b2o$49b3o15b2o$49b
2o6$65b3o$65bo2bo$65bo$65bo$58b3o5bobo$57bo2bo$60bo$60bo5b3o$57bobo5bo
2bo$68bo$68bo$65bobo22b3o$89bo2bo$92bo$92bo$89bobo3$98b3o$98bo2bo$98bo
$92bo5bo$59bo17bo13b3o5bobo$58b3o15b3o12bob2o$57b2obo14b2obo13b3o$57b
3o15b3o14b2o$57b3o16b2o$58b2o6$75b3o$74bo2bo$77bo$77bo$68b3o3bobo$68bo
2bo$68bo$68bo7b3o$69bobo4bo2bo$76bo$76bo$77bobo20b3o$100bo2bo$100bo$
100bo$101bobo3$108b3o$107bo2bo$110bo$102bo7bo$69bo17bo13b3o3bobo$68b3o
15b3o11b2obo$68bob2o14bob2o10b3o$69b3o15b3o11b2o$69b3o15b2o$69b2o6$85b
3o$85bo2bo$85bo$85bo$78b3o5bobo$77bo2bo$80bo$80bo5b3o$77bobo5bo2bo$88b
o$88bo$85bobo22b3o$109bo2bo$112bo$112bo$109bobo3$118b3o$118bo2bo$118bo
$112bo5bo$79bo17bo13b3o5bobo$78b3o15b3o12bob2o$77b2obo14b2obo13b3o$77b
3o15b3o14b2o$77b3o16b2o$78b2o6$95b3o$94bo2bo$97bo$97bo$88b3o3bobo$88bo
2bo$88bo$88bo7b3o$89bobo4bo2bo$96bo$96bo$97bobo11$89bo$88b3o$88bob2o$
89b3o$89b3o$89b2o10$98b3o$97bo2bo$100bo$100bo$97bobo!

Just for the record, tracks built with various objects:
x = 311, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
15bo42bo49b2o48bo48b2o49bo49b2o$13b2o42bobo47bo2bo46bobo47bobo47bobo
50bo$14b2o41bobo47bobo47bo2bo47bo49bo48bo$58bo49bo49b2o148b2o6$200b3o
47b3o$50b3o47b3o47b3o48bo49bo48b3o$51bo49bo49bo49b3o47b3o47bo$51b3o47b
3o47b3o147b3o3$3o$bo$b3o!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby Freywa » December 22nd, 2013, 11:35 pm

A little program to format gencols outputs so they are more readable, and more importantly to make the individual results pastable into Golly. It's not much, but it's still something.
main.c
Program to format gencols outputs
(1.36 KiB) Downloaded 354 times

Some gems could be found with this.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » December 23rd, 2013, 1:19 pm

What's wrong with makematrix?
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby Freywa » December 23rd, 2013, 10:28 pm

codeholic wrote:What's wrong with makematrix?

I don't have gencols. I need some source code or binary I can run on my 64-bit Linux system.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » January 24th, 2014, 2:14 pm

I tried to construct an LWSS with gliders that could be coming from back- and forward rakes.

It won't work because the salvo for ship 2 crashes right into the newly formed ship 1.

x = 39, y = 107, rule = B3/S23
4bo$5bo$3b3o3$4bo$5b2o$4b2o36$18bo$19b2o$18b2o3$20bo$18bobo$19b2o36$
34bo$32bobo$33b2o3$7bo25bobo$7b2o25b2o$6bobo25bo2$21b3o$23bo$bo20bo$b
2o33b2o$obo34b2o$36bo$15b3o$17bo$16bo$30b2o$31b2o$30bo!


Even building a x2 LWSS stream is impossible:
x = 39, y = 107, rule = B3/S23
4bo$5bo$3b3o3$4bo$5b2o$4b2o79$34bo$32bobo$33b2o3$7bo25bobo$7b2o25b2o$
6bobo25bo4$bo$b2o33b2o$obo34b2o$36bo4$30b2o$31b2o$30bo!


Even if I split the construction in two parts, it still won't work:
x = 161, y = 357, rule = B3/S23
3bo$4b2o$3b2o41$19bo$17bobo$18b2o41$32bobo$33b2o$33bo40$48bo$49bo$47b
3o20$149bo$150b2o$149b2o19$62bo$63b2o$62b2o3$152bo$152b2o$151bobo10$
159b2o$159b2o22$154b2o$154b2o2$78bo$76bobo$77b2o18$149b2o$149b2o22$91b
obo50b2o$92b2o50b2o$92bo21$139b2o$139b2o18$107bo$108bo$106b3o2$134b2o$
134b2o22$129b2o$129b2o$3o$2bo$bo$15b2o$16b2o$15bo$30b2o$29bobo$31bo$
45bo$45b2o$44bobo2$59b3o$61bo59bo$60bo61b2o$74b2o45b2o$75b2o$74bo$89b
2o$88bobo$90bo33b2o$104bo19b2o$104b2o$103bobo2$118b3o$120bo$119bo!


And at x2 ... nope.
x = 156, y = 357, rule = B3/S23
3bo$4b2o$3b2o84$32bobo$33b2o$33bo83$62bo$63b2o$62b2o38$154b2o$154b2o
45$91bobo50b2o$92b2o50b2o$92bo44$134b2o$134b2o24$3o$2bo$bo4$30b2o$29bo
bo$31bo5$59b3o$61bo59bo$60bo61b2o$121b2o3$89b2o$88bobo$90bo33b2o$124b
2o4$118b3o$120bo$119bo!


Guess what: x3 ...
x = 127, y = 271, rule = B3/S23
3bobo$4b2o$4bo123$125b2o$125b2o2$49bo$47bobo$48b2o64$110b2o$110b2o53$b
2o$obo$2bo6$92bo$93b2o$45b2o45b2o$46b2o$45bo3$95b2o$95b2o4$89b3o$91bo$
90bo!


even at x4 the ship is still too slow to escape.
x = 166, y = 357, rule = B3/S23
3bo$4b2o$3b2o163$164b2o$164b2o5$62bo$63b2o$62b2o84$144b2o$144b2o70$3o$
2bo$bo11$59b3o$61bo59bo$60bo61b2o$121b2o5$124b2o$124b2o4$118b3o$120bo$
119bo!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby oblique » January 24th, 2014, 2:42 pm

Hmm - not big wonder, tho.

If you look at codeholic's helix+fan out reaction and extend the helix quite some way back, you get this:

x = 542, y = 1638, rule = B3/S23
46bo$37bo7b2o$36b3o6bobo5b2o$35b2obo14b2o$35b3o15b2o$36b2o11bobo5b2o$
49bo2b3o2b2o$51b4o$49bo$56bo$55b3o2$35b3o$34bo2bo$37bo$37bo$34bobo3$
36b3o$36bo2bo$36bo$36bo$37bobo20b3o$60bo2bo$60bo$60bo$61bobo3$68b3o$
67bo2bo$70bo$62bo7bo$29bo17bo13b3o3bobo$28b3o15b3o11b2obo$28bob2o14bob
2o10b3o$29b3o15b3o11b2o$13bo15b3o15b2o$12bobo14b2o$12bo2bo$13b2o4$45b
3o$45bo2bo$45bo$45bo$38b3o5bobo$37bo2bo$40bo$40bo5b3o$37bobo5bo2bo$48b
o$48bo$15bo29bobo22b3o$13b2o54bo2bo$14b2o56bo$72bo$69bobo3$78b3o$78bo
2bo$78bo$72bo5bo$39bo17bo13b3o5bobo$38b3o15b3o12bob2o$37b2obo14b2obo
13b3o$37b3o15b3o14b2o$3o34b3o16b2o$bo36b2o$b3o5$55b3o$54bo2bo$57bo$57b
o$48b3o3bobo$48bo2bo$48bo$48bo7b3o$49bobo4bo2bo$56bo$56bo$57bobo20b3o$
80bo2bo$80bo$80bo$81bobo3$88b3o$87bo2bo$90bo$82bo7bo$49bo17bo13b3o3bob
o$48b3o15b3o11b2obo$48bob2o14bob2o10b3o$49b3o15b3o11b2o$49b3o15b2o$49b
2o6$65b3o$65bo2bo$65bo$65bo$58b3o5bobo$57bo2bo$60bo$60bo5b3o$57bobo5bo
2bo$68bo$68bo$65bobo22b3o$89bo2bo$92bo$92bo$89bobo3$98b3o$98bo2bo$98bo
$92bo5bo$59bo17bo13b3o5bobo$58b3o15b3o12bob2o$57b2obo14b2obo13b3o$57b
3o15b3o14b2o$57b3o16b2o$58b2o6$75b3o$74bo2bo$77bo$77bo$68b3o3bobo$68bo
2bo$68bo$68bo7b3o$69bobo4bo2bo$76bo$76bo$77bobo20b3o$100bo2bo$100bo$
100bo$101bobo3$108b3o$107bo2bo$110bo$102bo7bo$69bo17bo13b3o3bobo$68b3o
15b3o11b2obo$68bob2o14bob2o10b3o$69b3o15b3o11b2o$69b3o15b2o$69b2o6$85b
3o$85bo2bo$85bo$85bo$78b3o5bobo$77bo2bo$80bo$80bo5b3o$77bobo5bo2bo$88b
o$88bo$85bobo22b3o$109bo2bo$112bo$112bo$109bobo3$118b3o$118bo2bo$118bo
$112bo5bo$79bo17bo13b3o5bobo$78b3o15b3o12bob2o$77b2obo14b2obo13b3o$77b
3o15b3o14b2o$77b3o16b2o$78b2o6$95b3o$94bo2bo$97bo$97bo$88b3o3bobo$88bo
2bo$88bo$88bo7b3o$89bobo4bo2bo$96bo$96bo$97bobo20b3o$120bo2bo$120bo$
120bo$121bobo3$128b3o$127bo2bo$130bo$122bo7bo$89bo17bo13b3o3bobo$88b3o
15b3o11b2obo$88bob2o14bob2o10b3o$89b3o15b3o11b2o$89b3o15b2o$89b2o6$
105b3o$105bo2bo$105bo$105bo$98b3o5bobo$97bo2bo$100bo$100bo5b3o$97bobo
5bo2bo$108bo$108bo$105bobo22b3o$129bo2bo$132bo$132bo$129bobo3$138b3o$
138bo2bo$138bo$132bo5bo$99bo17bo13b3o5bobo$98b3o15b3o12bob2o$97b2obo
14b2obo13b3o$97b3o15b3o14b2o$97b3o16b2o$98b2o6$115b3o$114bo2bo$117bo$
117bo$108b3o3bobo$108bo2bo$108bo$108bo7b3o$109bobo4bo2bo$116bo$116bo$
117bobo20b3o$140bo2bo$140bo$140bo$141bobo3$148b3o$147bo2bo$150bo$142bo
7bo$109bo17bo13b3o3bobo$108b3o15b3o11b2obo$108bob2o14bob2o10b3o$109b3o
15b3o11b2o$109b3o15b2o$109b2o6$125b3o$125bo2bo$125bo$125bo$118b3o5bobo
$117bo2bo$120bo$120bo5b3o$117bobo5bo2bo$128bo$128bo$125bobo22b3o$149bo
2bo$152bo$152bo$149bobo3$158b3o$158bo2bo$158bo$152bo5bo$119bo17bo13b3o
5bobo$118b3o15b3o12bob2o$117b2obo14b2obo13b3o$117b3o15b3o14b2o$117b3o
16b2o$118b2o6$135b3o$134bo2bo$137bo$137bo$128b3o3bobo$128bo2bo$128bo$
128bo7b3o$129bobo4bo2bo$136bo$136bo$137bobo20b3o$160bo2bo$160bo$160bo$
161bobo3$168b3o$167bo2bo$170bo$162bo7bo$129bo17bo13b3o3bobo$128b3o15b
3o11b2obo$128bob2o14bob2o10b3o$129b3o15b3o11b2o$129b3o15b2o$129b2o6$
145b3o$145bo2bo$145bo$145bo$138b3o5bobo$137bo2bo$140bo$140bo5b3o$137bo
bo5bo2bo$148bo$148bo$145bobo22b3o$169bo2bo$172bo$172bo$169bobo3$178b3o
$178bo2bo$178bo$172bo5bo$139bo17bo13b3o5bobo$138b3o15b3o12bob2o$137b2o
bo14b2obo13b3o$137b3o15b3o14b2o$137b3o16b2o$138b2o6$155b3o$154bo2bo$
157bo$157bo$148b3o3bobo$148bo2bo$148bo$148bo7b3o$149bobo4bo2bo$156bo$
156bo$157bobo20b3o$180bo2bo$180bo$180bo$181bobo3$188b3o$187bo2bo$190bo
$182bo7bo$149bo17bo13b3o3bobo$148b3o15b3o11b2obo$148bob2o14bob2o10b3o$
149b3o15b3o11b2o$149b3o15b2o$149b2o6$165b3o$165bo2bo$165bo$165bo$158b
3o5bobo$157bo2bo$160bo$160bo5b3o$157bobo5bo2bo$168bo$168bo$165bobo22b
3o$189bo2bo$192bo$192bo$189bobo3$198b3o$198bo2bo$198bo$192bo5bo$159bo
17bo13b3o5bobo$158b3o15b3o12bob2o$157b2obo14b2obo13b3o$157b3o15b3o14b
2o$157b3o16b2o$158b2o6$175b3o$174bo2bo$177bo$177bo$168b3o3bobo$168bo2b
o$168bo$168bo7b3o$169bobo4bo2bo$176bo$176bo$177bobo20b3o$200bo2bo$200b
o$200bo$201bobo3$208b3o$207bo2bo$210bo$202bo7bo$169bo17bo13b3o3bobo$
168b3o15b3o11b2obo$168bob2o14bob2o10b3o$169b3o15b3o11b2o$169b3o15b2o$
169b2o6$185b3o$185bo2bo$185bo$185bo$178b3o5bobo$177bo2bo$180bo$180bo5b
3o$177bobo5bo2bo$188bo$188bo$185bobo22b3o$209bo2bo$212bo$212bo$209bobo
3$218b3o$218bo2bo$218bo$212bo5bo$179bo17bo13b3o5bobo$178b3o15b3o12bob
2o$177b2obo14b2obo13b3o$177b3o15b3o14b2o$177b3o16b2o$178b2o6$195b3o$
194bo2bo$197bo$197bo$188b3o3bobo$188bo2bo$188bo$188bo7b3o$189bobo4bo2b
o$196bo$196bo$197bobo20b3o$220bo2bo$220bo$220bo$221bobo3$228b3o$227bo
2bo$230bo$222bo7bo$189bo17bo13b3o3bobo$188b3o15b3o11b2obo$188bob2o14bo
b2o10b3o$189b3o15b3o11b2o$189b3o15b2o$189b2o6$205b3o$205bo2bo$205bo$
205bo$198b3o5bobo$197bo2bo$200bo$200bo5b3o$197bobo5bo2bo$208bo$208bo$
205bobo22b3o$229bo2bo$232bo$232bo$229bobo3$238b3o$238bo2bo$238bo$232bo
5bo$199bo17bo13b3o5bobo$198b3o15b3o12bob2o$197b2obo14b2obo13b3o$197b3o
15b3o14b2o$197b3o16b2o$198b2o6$215b3o$214bo2bo$217bo$217bo$208b3o3bobo
$208bo2bo$208bo$208bo7b3o$209bobo4bo2bo$216bo$216bo$217bobo20b3o$240bo
2bo$240bo$240bo$241bobo3$248b3o$247bo2bo$250bo$242bo7bo$209bo17bo13b3o
3bobo$208b3o15b3o11b2obo$208bob2o14bob2o10b3o$209b3o15b3o11b2o$209b3o
15b2o$209b2o6$225b3o$225bo2bo$225bo$225bo$218b3o5bobo$217bo2bo$220bo$
220bo5b3o$217bobo5bo2bo$228bo$228bo$225bobo22b3o$249bo2bo$252bo$252bo$
249bobo3$258b3o$258bo2bo$258bo$252bo5bo$219bo17bo13b3o5bobo$218b3o15b
3o12bob2o$217b2obo14b2obo13b3o$217b3o15b3o14b2o$217b3o16b2o$218b2o6$
235b3o$234bo2bo$237bo$237bo$228b3o3bobo$228bo2bo$228bo$228bo7b3o$229bo
bo4bo2bo$236bo$236bo$237bobo20b3o$260bo2bo$260bo$260bo$261bobo3$268b3o
$267bo2bo$270bo$262bo7bo$229bo17bo13b3o3bobo$228b3o15b3o11b2obo$228bob
2o14bob2o10b3o$229b3o15b3o11b2o$229b3o15b2o$229b2o6$245b3o$245bo2bo$
245bo$245bo$238b3o5bobo$237bo2bo$240bo$240bo5b3o$237bobo5bo2bo$248bo$
248bo$245bobo22b3o$269bo2bo$272bo$272bo$269bobo3$278b3o$278bo2bo$278bo
$272bo5bo$239bo17bo13b3o5bobo$238b3o15b3o12bob2o$237b2obo14b2obo13b3o$
237b3o15b3o14b2o$237b3o16b2o$238b2o6$255b3o$254bo2bo$257bo$257bo$248b
3o3bobo$248bo2bo$248bo$248bo7b3o$249bobo4bo2bo$256bo$256bo$257bobo20b
3o$280bo2bo$280bo$280bo$281bobo3$288b3o$287bo2bo$290bo$282bo7bo$249bo
17bo13b3o3bobo$248b3o15b3o11b2obo$248bob2o14bob2o10b3o$249b3o15b3o11b
2o$249b3o15b2o$249b2o6$265b3o$265bo2bo$265bo$265bo$258b3o5bobo$257bo2b
o$260bo$260bo5b3o$257bobo5bo2bo$268bo$268bo$265bobo22b3o$289bo2bo$292b
o$292bo$289bobo3$298b3o$298bo2bo$298bo$292bo5bo$259bo17bo13b3o5bobo$
258b3o15b3o12bob2o$257b2obo14b2obo13b3o$257b3o15b3o14b2o$257b3o16b2o$
258b2o6$275b3o$274bo2bo$277bo$277bo$268b3o3bobo$268bo2bo$268bo$268bo7b
3o$269bobo4bo2bo$276bo$276bo$277bobo20b3o$300bo2bo$300bo$300bo$301bobo
3$308b3o$307bo2bo$310bo$302bo7bo$269bo17bo13b3o3bobo$268b3o15b3o11b2ob
o$268bob2o14bob2o10b3o$269b3o15b3o11b2o$269b3o15b2o$269b2o6$285b3o$
285bo2bo$285bo$285bo$278b3o5bobo$277bo2bo$280bo$280bo5b3o$277bobo5bo2b
o$288bo$288bo$285bobo22b3o$309bo2bo$312bo$312bo$309bobo3$318b3o$318bo
2bo$318bo$312bo5bo$279bo17bo13b3o5bobo$278b3o15b3o12bob2o$277b2obo14b
2obo13b3o$277b3o15b3o14b2o$277b3o16b2o$278b2o6$295b3o$294bo2bo$297bo$
297bo$288b3o3bobo$288bo2bo$288bo$288bo7b3o$289bobo4bo2bo$296bo$296bo$
297bobo20b3o$320bo2bo$320bo$320bo$321bobo3$328b3o$327bo2bo$330bo$322bo
7bo$289bo17bo13b3o3bobo$288b3o15b3o11b2obo$288bob2o14bob2o10b3o$289b3o
15b3o11b2o$289b3o15b2o$289b2o6$305b3o$305bo2bo$305bo$305bo$298b3o5bobo
$297bo2bo$300bo$300bo5b3o$297bobo5bo2bo$308bo$308bo$305bobo22b3o$329bo
2bo$332bo$332bo$329bobo3$338b3o$338bo2bo$338bo$332bo5bo$299bo17bo13b3o
5bobo$298b3o15b3o12bob2o$297b2obo14b2obo13b3o$297b3o15b3o14b2o$297b3o
16b2o$298b2o6$315b3o$314bo2bo$317bo$317bo$308b3o3bobo$308bo2bo$308bo$
308bo7b3o$309bobo4bo2bo$316bo$316bo$317bobo20b3o$340bo2bo$340bo$340bo$
341bobo3$348b3o$347bo2bo$350bo$342bo7bo$309bo17bo13b3o3bobo$308b3o15b
3o11b2obo$308bob2o14bob2o10b3o$309b3o15b3o11b2o$309b3o15b2o$309b2o6$
325b3o$325bo2bo$325bo$325bo$318b3o5bobo$317bo2bo$320bo$320bo5b3o$317bo
bo5bo2bo$328bo$328bo$325bobo22b3o$349bo2bo$352bo$352bo$349bobo3$358b3o
$358bo2bo$358bo$352bo5bo$319bo17bo13b3o5bobo$318b3o15b3o12bob2o$317b2o
bo14b2obo13b3o$317b3o15b3o14b2o$317b3o16b2o$318b2o6$335b3o$334bo2bo$
337bo$337bo$328b3o3bobo$328bo2bo$328bo$328bo7b3o$329bobo4bo2bo$336bo$
336bo$337bobo20b3o$360bo2bo$360bo$360bo$361bobo3$368b3o$367bo2bo$370bo
$362bo7bo$329bo17bo13b3o3bobo$328b3o15b3o11b2obo$328bob2o14bob2o10b3o$
329b3o15b3o11b2o$329b3o15b2o$329b2o6$345b3o$345bo2bo$345bo$345bo$338b
3o5bobo$337bo2bo$340bo$340bo5b3o$337bobo5bo2bo$348bo$348bo$345bobo22b
3o$369bo2bo$372bo$372bo$369bobo3$378b3o$378bo2bo$378bo$372bo5bo$339bo
17bo13b3o5bobo$338b3o15b3o12bob2o$337b2obo14b2obo13b3o$337b3o15b3o14b
2o$337b3o16b2o$338b2o6$355b3o$354bo2bo$357bo$357bo$348b3o3bobo$348bo2b
o$348bo$348bo7b3o$349bobo4bo2bo$356bo$356bo$357bobo20b3o$380bo2bo$380b
o$380bo$381bobo3$388b3o$387bo2bo$390bo$382bo7bo$349bo17bo13b3o3bobo$
348b3o15b3o11b2obo$348bob2o14bob2o10b3o$349b3o15b3o11b2o$349b3o15b2o$
349b2o6$365b3o$365bo2bo$365bo$365bo$358b3o5bobo$357bo2bo$360bo$360bo5b
3o$357bobo5bo2bo$368bo$368bo$365bobo22b3o$389bo2bo$392bo$392bo$389bobo
3$398b3o$398bo2bo$398bo$392bo5bo$359bo17bo13b3o5bobo$358b3o15b3o12bob
2o$357b2obo14b2obo13b3o$357b3o15b3o14b2o$357b3o16b2o$358b2o6$375b3o$
374bo2bo$377bo$377bo$368b3o3bobo$368bo2bo$368bo$368bo7b3o$369bobo4bo2b
o$376bo$376bo$377bobo20b3o$400bo2bo$400bo$400bo$401bobo3$408b3o$407bo
2bo$410bo$402bo7bo$369bo17bo13b3o3bobo$368b3o15b3o11b2obo$368bob2o14bo
b2o10b3o$369b3o15b3o11b2o$369b3o15b2o$369b2o6$385b3o$385bo2bo$385bo$
385bo$378b3o5bobo$377bo2bo$380bo$380bo5b3o$377bobo5bo2bo$388bo$388bo$
385bobo22b3o$409bo2bo$412bo$412bo$409bobo3$418b3o$418bo2bo$418bo$412bo
5bo$379bo17bo13b3o5bobo$378b3o15b3o12bob2o$377b2obo14b2obo13b3o$377b3o
15b3o14b2o$377b3o16b2o$378b2o6$395b3o$394bo2bo$397bo$397bo$388b3o3bobo
$388bo2bo$388bo$388bo7b3o$389bobo4bo2bo$396bo$396bo$397bobo20b3o$420bo
2bo$420bo$420bo$421bobo3$428b3o$427bo2bo$430bo$422bo7bo$389bo17bo13b3o
3bobo$388b3o15b3o11b2obo$388bob2o14bob2o10b3o$389b3o15b3o11b2o$389b3o
15b2o$389b2o6$405b3o$405bo2bo$405bo$405bo$398b3o5bobo$397bo2bo$400bo$
400bo5b3o$397bobo5bo2bo$408bo$408bo$405bobo22b3o$429bo2bo$432bo$432bo$
429bobo3$438b3o$438bo2bo$438bo$432bo5bo$399bo17bo13b3o5bobo$398b3o15b
3o12bob2o$397b2obo14b2obo13b3o$397b3o15b3o14b2o$397b3o16b2o$398b2o6$
415b3o$414bo2bo$417bo$417bo$408b3o3bobo$408bo2bo$408bo$408bo7b3o$409bo
bo4bo2bo$416bo$416bo$417bobo20b3o$440bo2bo$440bo$440bo$441bobo3$448b3o
$447bo2bo$450bo$442bo7bo$409bo17bo13b3o3bobo$408b3o15b3o11b2obo$408bob
2o14bob2o10b3o$409b3o15b3o11b2o$409b3o15b2o$409b2o6$425b3o$425bo2bo$
425bo$425bo$418b3o5bobo$417bo2bo$420bo$420bo5b3o$417bobo5bo2bo$428bo$
428bo$425bobo22b3o$449bo2bo$452bo$452bo$449bobo3$458b3o$458bo2bo$458bo
$452bo5bo$419bo17bo13b3o5bobo$418b3o15b3o12bob2o$417b2obo14b2obo13b3o$
417b3o15b3o14b2o$417b3o16b2o$418b2o6$435b3o$434bo2bo$437bo$437bo$428b
3o3bobo$428bo2bo$428bo$428bo7b3o$429bobo4bo2bo$436bo$436bo$437bobo20b
3o$460bo2bo$460bo$460bo$461bobo3$468b3o$467bo2bo$470bo$462bo7bo$429bo
17bo13b3o3bobo$428b3o15b3o11b2obo$428bob2o14bob2o10b3o$429b3o15b3o11b
2o$429b3o15b2o$429b2o6$445b3o$445bo2bo$445bo$445bo$438b3o5bobo$437bo2b
o$440bo$440bo5b3o$437bobo5bo2bo$448bo$448bo$445bobo22b3o$469bo2bo$472b
o$472bo$469bobo3$478b3o$478bo2bo$478bo$472bo5bo$439bo17bo13b3o5bobo$
438b3o15b3o12bob2o$437b2obo14b2obo13b3o$437b3o15b3o14b2o$437b3o16b2o$
438b2o6$455b3o$454bo2bo$457bo$457bo$448b3o3bobo$448bo2bo$448bo$448bo7b
3o$449bobo4bo2bo$456bo$456bo$457bobo20b3o$480bo2bo$480bo$480bo$481bobo
3$488b3o$487bo2bo$490bo$482bo7bo$449bo17bo13b3o3bobo$448b3o15b3o11b2ob
o$448bob2o14bob2o10b3o$449b3o15b3o11b2o$449b3o15b2o$449b2o6$465b3o$
465bo2bo$465bo$465bo$458b3o5bobo$457bo2bo$460bo$460bo5b3o$457bobo5bo2b
o$468bo$468bo$465bobo22b3o$489bo2bo$492bo$492bo$489bobo3$498b3o$498bo
2bo$498bo$492bo5bo$459bo17bo13b3o5bobo$458b3o15b3o12bob2o$457b2obo14b
2obo13b3o$457b3o15b3o14b2o$457b3o16b2o$458b2o6$475b3o$474bo2bo$477bo$
477bo$468b3o3bobo$468bo2bo$468bo$468bo7b3o$469bobo4bo2bo$476bo$476bo$
477bobo20b3o$500bo2bo$500bo$500bo$501bobo3$508b3o$507bo2bo$510bo$502bo
7bo$469bo17bo13b3o3bobo$468b3o15b3o11b2obo$468bob2o14bob2o10b3o$469b3o
15b3o11b2o$469b3o15b2o$469b2o6$485b3o$485bo2bo$485bo$485bo$478b3o5bobo
$477bo2bo$480bo$480bo5b3o$477bobo5bo2bo$488bo$488bo$485bobo22b3o$509bo
2bo$512bo$512bo$509bobo3$518b3o$518bo2bo$518bo$512bo5bo$479bo17bo13b3o
5bobo$478b3o15b3o12bob2o$477b2obo14b2obo13b3o$477b3o15b3o14b2o$477b3o
16b2o$478b2o6$495b3o$494bo2bo$497bo$497bo$488b3o3bobo$488bo2bo$488bo$
488bo7b3o$489bobo4bo2bo$496bo$496bo$497bobo20b3o$520bo2bo$520bo$520bo$
521bobo3$528b3o$527bo2bo$530bo$522bo7bo$489bo17bo13b3o3bobo$488b3o15b
3o11b2obo$488bob2o14bob2o10b3o$489b3o15b3o11b2o$489b3o15b2o$489b2o6$
505b3o$505bo2bo$505bo$505bo$498b3o5bobo$497bo2bo$500bo$500bo5b3o$497bo
bo5bo2bo$508bo$508bo$505bobo22b3o$529bo2bo$532bo$532bo$529bobo3$538b3o
$538bo2bo$538bo$532bo5bo$499bo17bo13b3o5bobo$498b3o15b3o12bob2o$497b2o
bo14b2obo13b3o$497b3o15b3o14b2o$497b3o16b2o$498b2o6$515b3o$514bo2bo$
517bo$517bo$508b3o3bobo$508bo2bo$508bo$508bo7b3o$509bobo4bo2bo$516bo$
516bo$517bobo11$509bo$508b3o$508bob2o$509b3o$509b3o$509b2o10$518b3o$
517bo2bo$520bo$520bo$517bobo!


look at the resulting back rake of the crawler reaction ... it eventually hits the LWSS stream. But since it travels in almost exactly the opposite direction this does not happen before about generation 1500.

For the same reason, we would have to allow a generated LWSS *quite* some time to escape.
I'll look a slow salvos next - but I fear there will be similar problems (we probably had to build the seed of the other side of the helix, and we would never be able to fit a glider thru there - let alone complete salvos).

For the good news: There are plenty of nice glider + LWSS reactions that can be ridiculously easy be used to fan out about as many trails as we like.
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » September 8th, 2014, 11:20 am

oblique wrote:I tried to construct an LWSS with gliders that could be coming from back- and forward rakes.

It won't work because the salvo for ship 2 crashes right into the newly formed ship 1.

It doesn't appear to be absolutely impossible though:
x = 356, y = 114, rule = B3/S23
2b2o198b2o$o4bo194bo4bo$6bo199bo$o5bo193bo5bo$b6o194b6o44$70b6o194b6o$
69bo5bo193bo5bo$75bo199bo$69bo4bo194bo4bo$71b2o198b2o37$96b3o$98bo$97b
o$140b2o198b2o$84b2o5b3o44bo4bo142b3o49bo4bo$85b2o6bo50bo143bo55bo$84b
o7bo33b2o10bo5bo142bo50bo5bo$125bobo11b6o194b6o$127bo$294b3o$114bo6b2o
173bo19b2o$114b2o4bobo172bo19bobo$113bobo6bo194bo$155b3o$157bo$156bo
167b2o$323bobo$143b2o5b3o172bo19b3o$144b2o6bo194bo$143bo7bo194bo3$353b
3o$355bo$354bo!
Ivan Fomichev
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby codeholic » September 11th, 2014, 6:02 pm

Two more syntheses (including a MWSS synthesis):
x = 354, y = 111, rule = B3/S23
o2bo196bo2bo$4bo199bo$o3bo195bo3bo$b4o196b4o44$70b4o196b4o$69bo3bo195b
o3bo$73bo199bo$69bo2bo196bo2bo37$92bo199b3o$92b2o200bo$91bobo199bo2$
86b2o201bo$87b2o49bo2bo147b2o47bo2bo$86bo55bo145bobo31b2o18bo$121b2o
15bo3bo178bobo14bo3bo$91b2o29b2o15b4o180bo15b4o$92b2o27bo$91bo24bo$
116b2o200b2o$115bobo201b2o$151bo166bo32b3o$121bo29b2o200bo$121b2o27bob
o199bo$120bobo$145b2o201bo$146b2o200b2o$145bo201bobo2$150b2o$151b2o$
150bo!
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Re: (23,5)c/79 spaceship components

Postby biggiemac » September 17th, 2014, 12:32 am

Hey, lurker turned contributer here.

Not sure if people have considered this: rephasing actually changes the relative position of tracks. The H + glider reaction puts a glider at (-9,-7) relative to the trajectory of the one consumed in 10 ticks - iterating this procedure moves the entire track gradually upward. Here is a clean rephasing with 16 Hs each on two tracks and an undisturbed track above. The difference isn't massive, but it could make getting a desired separation more difficult. If it's truly a 2D problem to get gliders in the correct stream, then we need two basis reactions for rephasing.

x = 603, y = 891, rule = B3/S23
48$535bo$534bo$517bo16b3o$516bo$516b3o39$511bo$509b2o$493bo16b2o$491b
2o$492b2o39$485bo$485bobo$467bo17b2o$467bobo$467b2o27$404bo$402b2o$
403b2o10$460bobo$460b2o$442bobo16bo$442b2o$443bo27$378bo$378bobo$378b
2o9$436bo$435bo$418bo16b3o$417bo$417b3o28$353bobo$353b2o$354bo9$412bo$
410b2o$394bo16b2o$392b2o$393b2o27$329bo$328bo$328b3o10$386bo$386bobo$
368bo17b2o$368bobo$368b2o27$305bo$303b2o$304b2o10$361bobo$361b2o$343bo
bo16bo$343b2o$344bo27$279bo$279bobo$279b2o9$337bo$336bo$319bo16b3o$
318bo$318b3o28$254bobo$254b2o$255bo9$313bo$311b2o$295bo16b2o$293b2o$
294b2o27$230bo$229bo$229b3o10$287bo$287bobo$269bo17b2o$269bobo$269b2o
27$206bo$204b2o$205b2o10$262bobo$262b2o$244bobo16bo$244b2o$245bo27$
180bo$180bobo$180b2o9$238bo$237bo$220bo16b3o$219bo$219b3o20$203b3o$
202bo2bo$206bo$202b2o$202b2o3bo$207bo$205bo$203b3o$155bobo45b2o$155b2o
46bo$156bo47b2o$204bobo$203bo3bo$204b2o4$194b3o17b2o$194bo2bo16b2o$
192bo4bo10bo7bo$206bobo5b2o$192bo14b2o5b2o$193bo$194b2obo18b2o$195bo2b
o17b2o$195b2o$196bo2bo$199bo$195bo$198bo5bo$195b3o5bobo$203bob2o$205bo
2$185b3o18bob2o$184bo2bo19b2o$184bo4bo$189bo$189b2o10bo$186bob2o9b2o$
187bo12b2o4$195b3o$195bo2bo$195bo2bo$194b4o$194b2o$175b3o15bo$131bo46b
o15bo$130bo44b3o16bo$130b3o2$178b2o$178b2o$182bobo$182bo2bo$181bo3b2o$
171bo9bo$171bo$165b2o14bo2b3o$165bob2o12b2o$168b2o13b3o$168bobo12b3o$
165bo3b2o$169bo3$162bobo$162b2o$163bo$173b3o$174bo$174b3o$157b2o$157bo
bo$159b2o$158bo$156bobo$155b2o$155b3o$172bobo$172bobo2$175bo2$145bo19b
o$145b2o17b3o$144bo2bo16bob2o3bobo$145bobo15b2o7bo$144bo2bo15b2o$144bo
2bo15b2o$107bo36bobo20bo$105b2o38b3o18b2o$106b2o56bobo$163bo2bo$164bob
o$164b3o$164b2obo$164bo2bo$165bo2$135b3o$156bo$135bobo17b3o$138bo15b2o
2bo$134bo3bo2$134bo2b2o$154b2o$155b3o$135bo22bo$135bo20b3o$134bo21b2o$
135bob2o$139bo$132bo4bo2$127bo5bobo$126b3o4b3o$125b2o2bo17bo$125b2ob2o
16b3o$128b3o14bo2b2o$126bob2o19bo$125bo2bo20b2o$128bo22bo$125bobo20b4o
$126bo14bo6b2o$142b2o$127b3o11b2o$126bob2o$127b2obo4$81bo36bo18bo$81bo
bo33b3o17b2o$81b2o33bo2b2o8bobo7bo$115b5o10b2o5b2o$115b5o10bo6bo$118bo
$118bobo18b2o$118b2obo17b2o$119bobo$120b3o$120bobo$118b4o$118b3o$119bo
6b3o$126bob3o2$129bobo$109bo19bobo$108b3o19b2o$107b2o2bo$108b5o$108b2o
2bo10bo$109bo2bo10bobo$109bobo11b2o4$118b2o$118bob2o$120b2o$118b2o$
116b2o$97bo2bo$97bob2o15bobo$99b2o16bo3$101b2o$101b2o$106b2o$105b3o$
105bo2bo$93bo11b2ob2o$56bobo35b2o9b2ob2o$56b2o30b2o14b2ob2o$57bo30bo
16bo$90b3o13b3o$87bo5bo13bo$88bo4bo$89bo2bo$91bo$86bo$85bo$85b3o$97bo$
97bo$96bobo2$80b2o16b2o$80bobo$82bo15b2o$80bobo$79bo$79bobo$79bo$78bo
16b2o$95b3o$99bo$97b2o3$67b3o17b3o4bobo$70bo15bo2bo4bobo$67bo2bo19bo4b
o$68b2o16b2o$68b2o16b2o3bo$67bo2bo20bo$67bo21bo$69b2o16b3o$87b2o$87bo$
88b2o$88bobo$87bo3bo$88b2o2$59bo$58b3o$58b3o17b3o$78bo2bo$58b4o14bo4bo
$57b5o$57b2obo15bo$77bo$78b2obo$58b2o19bo2bo$57bo21b2o$80bo2bo$56bobo
2bo21bo$56bob3obo16bo$55b3ob2obo19bo$56bobo17bo2b3o$56b3o18bo$57bo17b
3o2$69b3o$68bo2bo$68bo4bo$73bo$73b2o$70bob2o$65bo5bo$63bobo$64b2o8$59b
obo$59b2o$41bobo16bo$41b2o$42bo!
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.
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biggiemac
 
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