## Catagolue Oddities

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

For the rule B2e3-a/S23, Catalogue lists a bunch of supposed xp1001 patterns that are actually spaceships with significantly smaller periods, plus an empty pattern.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Why is this included with the rest of the yl38s?:
`x = 16, y = 16, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7eooobbbbboobbbbbb\$oobboobbbboboobo\$oboboobboobbbobo\$obooobbbobbooooo\$bbobobbooobobbbb\$bbbobbboobbobbbb\$obboboboobbboobo\$bbbbbbooobbooboo\$ooboobbbooooobob\$oboobooooboooobb\$booboobooobbbobo\$bbbobboobobbobbb\$oobooobobooooooo\$bbbbobbobbobbobb\$bboobbbbbobobobb\$obobbboobbbooobb!`

It has a completely different stator than the rest of them. I thought different stator meant different apgcode? Said yl38 is this, the aforementioned soup is the 4th black dot.
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

danny

Posts: 961
Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

danny wrote:I thought different stator meant different apgcode?

Not necessarily -- apgsearch performs some dark rituals behind the scenes to collect data on linear-growth patterns (take a look at linearlyse() and deepperiod() in apgsearch 1.x, or linearlyse() in apgluxe 4.x); the results are hashed, so if two different patterns happen to produce the same figures, they'll end up getting the same apgcode as well.

Whether that's the case here or whether there's a bug I can't say. (Neither can I tell you what exactly it is that linearlyse() computes; you'll have to ask Calcyman about that. And if you get an explanation that us mere mortals can understand, be sure to also add it to the wiki. )
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

Apple Bottom

Posts: 1025
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 2:06 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

danny wrote:Why is this included with the rest of the yl38s?: ... It has a completely different stator than the rest of them. I thought different stator meant different apgcode?

Still-lifes, oscillators, and spaceships encode the actual pattern image in the apgcode, so different stators generate different apgcodes. Expanding patterns are different, since there's no image to repeat. Instead of growing patterns being matched by image, they are matched by population.

The apgcode is yl(a)_(b)_(c)_(d). (a) is the repeat factor (which is often the period, but may be a fraction of it, e.g. with switch engines, it's often half the period, as many switch engines have glide symmetry. I'm not sure what (b) is; it always seems to be 1. (c) is the population increase every period. (d) is a hash of the population signature during one period. While it's possible for two different expanding patterns to have the same pattern , it is extremely unlikely. Note that with this system, different stators will produce the same pattern and apgcode. Having another rotor (e.g. a beacon or something similar) with a fluctuating population attached to the same stator would produce a different population signature, and thus a different apgcode.
mniemiec

Posts: 1038
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

(b) seems to be determined by the first number and the period of the ash. For example, a yl32 that puffs period 6 oscillators would have (b) be 3, and if it puffed p3 oscillators it would also be 6, but p2 would yield 1. I don't know what this is called.
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

danny

Posts: 961
Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

danny wrote:(b) seems to be determined by the first number and the period of the ash. For example, a yl32 that puffs period 6 oscillators would have (b) be 3, and if it puffed p3 oscillators it would also be 6, but p2 would yield 1. I don't know what this is called.

Did you mean that P6 oscillators would have b=6 and P3 oscillators would have b=3? Again, it's all about the population, so P2 oscillators like beacons would appear to be period 2 (i.e. 6 8 6 8 ...), while blinkers would appear to be period 1 (i.e. 3 3 3 3 ...). Gliders also appear to be period 1.
mniemiec

Posts: 1038
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

mniemiec wrote:{stuff i missed >.<}

Ah yeah, I forgot apgsearch is blind to laughable human concepts like cell positioning. But yes, it would be the period of the population of the ash divided by whatever factors it shares with the first number.
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

danny

Posts: 961
Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

The first (at the time of writing, only) sample soup listed here doesn't produce the object: http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xs1 ... e2ekn34ent

Object:
`x = 8, y = 5, rule = B2in34-a/S1e2ekn34ent3b2o\$2bo2bo\$8o\$2bo2bo\$3b2o!`

Supposed soup:
`x = 32, y = 31, rule = B2in34-a/S1e2ekn34entbobobobbobooboobbooboobobbobobob\$ooobobbobbboobboobboobbbobbobooo\$bobboboobbbbbbbbbbbbbbbboobobbob\$oooooobobobboooooooobboboboooooo\$ooboooobbboboobbbboobobbbooooboo\$obbbooobbbobbbobbobbbobbbooobbbo\$oooobbboobobooooooooboboobbboooo\$bbobobbbbbbboobbbboobbbbbbbobobb\$boooboboobobooooooooboboobobooob\$bbobooboooobobbbbbbobooooboobobb\$bbbbbbbbobboboooooobobbobbbbbbbb\$obobbobbbbbobbobbobbobbbbbobbobo\$obooboobobobbboooobbbobobooboobo\$obobboboobbbbobbbbobbbboobobbobo\$oobobobbobbbooobbooobbbobboboboo\$bbbobboboboooobooboooobobobbobbb\$oobobobbobbbooobbooobbbobboboboo\$obobboboobbbbobbbbobbbboobobbobo\$obooboobobobbboooobbbobobooboobo\$obobbobbbbbobbobbobbobbbbbobbobo\$bbbbbbbbobboboooooobobbobbbbbbbb\$bbobooboooobobbbbbbobooooboobobb\$boooboboobobooooooooboboobobooob\$bbobobbbbbbboobbbboobbbbbbbobobb\$oooobbboobobooooooooboboobbboooo\$obbbooobbbobbbobbobbbobbbooobbbo\$ooboooobbboboobbbboobobbbooooboo\$oooooobobobboooooooobboboboooooo\$bobboboobbbbbbbbbbbbbbbboobobbob\$ooobobbobbboobboobboobbbobbobooo\$bobobobbobooboobbooboobobbobobob!`

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

77topaz wrote:The first (at the time of writing, only) sample soup listed here doesn't produce the object: http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xs1 ... e2ekn34ent

Object:
`obj`

Supposed soup:
`soop`

No, it is not the first time this has happened. It has happened a number of times. The first was an oscillator in a rule I forgot about.
If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
`x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23b2ob2obo5b2o\$11b4obo\$2bob3o2bo2b3o\$bo3b2o4b2o\$o2bo2bob2o3b4o\$bob2obo5bo2b2o\$2b2o4bobo2b3o\$bo3b5ob2obobo\$2bo5bob2o\$4bob2o2bobobo!`

(Check gen 2)

Saka

Posts: 3077
Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Saka wrote:No, it is not the first time this has happened. It has happened a number of times. The first was an oscillator in a rule I forgot about.

I wasn't implying this was the first time a soup listed as producing an object didn't produce that object; I've seen that mentioned in other places in this thread. The "first" in my post was referring to the soups on that particular object's page.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Large rulestrings are again destroying the rectangular purity of the census page.

cordership3

Posts: 126
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 8:53 am
Location: haha long boy

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

apgluxe has a really hard time classifying this pattern for some reason
`x = 2, y = 4, rule = B3ai4aiw5i6ci7e8/S2a3a4acinrt5i6ac7c82o\$2o\$2o\$2o!`

It's been classified into
• zz_EXPLOSIVE
• yl15 (Might be a phantom ghost pattern)
• PATHOLOGICAL
If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
`x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23b2ob2obo5b2o\$11b4obo\$2bob3o2bo2b3o\$bo3b2o4b2o\$o2bo2bob2o3b4o\$bob2obo5bo2b2o\$2b2o4bobo2b3o\$bo3b5ob2obobo\$2bo5bob2o\$4bob2o2bobobo!`

(Check gen 2)

Saka

Posts: 3077
Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Saka wrote:apgluxe has a really hard time classifying this pattern for some reason
`x = 2, y = 4, rule = B3ai4aiw5i6ci7e8/S2a3a4acinrt5i6ac7c82o\$2o\$2o\$2o!`

It's been classified into
• zz_EXPLOSIVE
• yl15 (Might be a phantom ghost pattern)
• PATHOLOGICAL

Note: This pattern actually stabilises into a few small oscillators after around 4500 generations.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Saka wrote:[*]yl15 (Might be a phantom ghost pattern)

After a bit of playing around I found said 'ghost pattern', as well as a relative:
`x = 261, y = 163, rule = B3ai4aiw5i6ci7e8/S2a3a4acinrt5i6ac7c82b2o6b2o\$2bo6b4o\$9b4o\$10b3o\$10b2ob3o\$10b7o\$9b8o\$2o7b3ob3o\$bo6b5o\$8b5o\$9b4o\$10b2o39\$120b2o\$120b2o2\$48b2o70b2o\$48b2o68b6o\$47bo2bo68b4o\$48b2o69b4o\$47b4o67b6o\$46b6o66b6o20b2o\$47b4o67b6o19b4o\$47b4o67b6o18b6o\$119b4o20b4o\$46b6o68b2o\$46b6o\$46b6o\$47b4o91b6o\$143b4o\$143b4o\$95b4o\$9bo38b2o45b4o21b2o94b2o\$8b2o37b4o44b4o21b2o93b4o\$47b4o164b4o\$48b2o46b2o20b6o\$95b4o20b4o21b2o46b2o22b2o\$2o22b2o69b4o21b2o22b2o66bo3b2o3bo\$23b4o44b4o19bob2obo19bo2bo17bo3b2o3bo42b2o18bobob2obobo\$2o20bob2obo43b4o19b6o20b2o21b4o21b2o21b4o18bob4obo\$22bob2obo43b4o17b3ob2ob3o18b2o20bob2obo61bo2b10o2bo\$2o18bob6obo41b4o17b10o18b2o21b4o21b2o22b2o15b16o\$23b4o66bo6bo19b2o22b2o20b6o20b2o14b18o\$2o21b4o43bo4bo16b10o18b2o43b8o35b18o\$24b2o66b10o64b6o17bob4obo10b20o\$2o67bo2b2o2bo12b2ob10ob2o61b6o17bob4obo11b18o14b2o\$64bo4b8o4bo8bob3ob2ob3obo61b8o19b2o14bo2b12o2bo\$2o58bo3bo4b8o4bo3bo7b2o4b2o19b2o43b8o19b2o16bob10obo16b2o\$60bo3bo4b8o4bo3bo9b4o20b4o45b2o22b2o18bob6obo\$64bo4b8o4bo13b4o20b4o45b2o44b6o20b2o\$69bo2b2o2bo137b6o\$120b2o94b2o21b4o\$70bo4bo44b2o116b6o\$120b2o116b6o7b4o\$71b4o45b2o93b4o20b4o8b4o\$71b4o44bo2bo92b4o18b8o6b4o\$71b4o45b2o114b2ob4ob2o7b2o\$71b4o43b6o91b5o17bobo2bobo\$119b4o90b8o18b4o\$120b2o90bob7ob3o4bo4bo4b4o4bo4bo4b4o\$212b8o2b4o2b3o9b2o9b3o3b4o\$120b2o89b8ob6o2b3o20b3o3b4o\$119b4o89b6o4b3o3bobo9b2o9bobo3b4o\$119b4o89b9o18b4o\$119b4o90b8o\$119b4o90bo2b2o2bo6b4o20b4o\$120b2o105b4o7b6o7b4o\$118bob2obo92b2o9b4o8b4o8b4o\$117bo2b2o2bo91b2o9b4o8b4o8b4o\$118b6o103b4o9b2o9b4o\$117bo2b2o2bo91b2o9b4o8b4o8b4o\$118bob2obo92b2o9b4o8b4o8b4o\$120b2o105b4o7b6o7b4o\$119b4o90bo2b2o2bo6b4o20b4o\$119b4o90b8o\$119b4o89b9o18b4o\$119b4o89b6o4b3o3bobo9b2o9bobo3b4o\$120b2o89b8ob6o2b3o20b3o3b4o\$212b8o2b4o2b3o9b2o9b3o3b4o\$120b2o90bob7ob3o4bo4bo4b4o4bo4bo4b4o\$119b4o90b8o18b4o\$71b4o43b6o91b5o17bobo2bobo\$71b4o45b2o114b2ob4ob2o7b2o\$71b4o44bo2bo92b4o18b8o6b4o\$71b4o45b2o93b4o20b4o8b4o\$120b2o116b6o7b4o\$70bo4bo44b2o116b6o\$120b2o94b2o21b4o\$69bo2b2o2bo137b6o\$64bo4b8o4bo13b4o20b4o45b2o44b6o20b2o\$60bo3bo4b8o4bo3bo9b4o20b4o45b2o22b2o18bob6obo\$2o58bo3bo4b8o4bo3bo7b2o4b2o19b2o43b8o19b2o16bob10obo16b2o\$64bo4b8o4bo8bob3ob2ob3obo61b8o19b2o14bo2b12o2bo\$2o67bo2b2o2bo12b2ob10ob2o61b6o17bob4obo11b18o14b2o\$24b2o66b10o64b6o17bob4obo10b20o\$2o21b4o43bo4bo16b10o18b2o43b8o35b18o\$23b4o66bo6bo19b2o22b2o20b6o20b2o14b18o\$2o18bob6obo41b4o17b10o18b2o21b4o21b2o22b2o15b16o\$22bob2obo43b4o17b3ob2ob3o18b2o20bob2obo61bo2b10o2bo\$2o20bob2obo43b4o19b6o20b2o21b4o21b2o21b4o18bob4obo\$23b4o44b4o19bob2obo19bo2bo17bo3b2o3bo42b2o18bobob2obobo\$2o22b2o69b4o21b2o22b2o66bo3b2o3bo\$95b4o20b4o21b2o46b2o22b2o\$48b2o46b2o20b6o\$47b4o164b4o\$8b2o37b4o44b4o21b2o93b4o\$9bo38b2o45b4o21b2o94b2o\$95b4o\$143b4o\$143b4o\$47b4o91b6o\$46b6o\$46b6o\$46b6o68b2o\$119b4o20b4o\$47b4o67b6o18b6o\$47b4o67b6o19b4o\$46b6o66b6o20b2o\$47b4o67b6o\$48b2o69b4o\$47bo2bo68b4o\$48b2o68b6o\$48b2o70b2o2\$120b2o\$120b2o!`
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

danny

Posts: 961
Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

The pattern http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp1 ... s3a4a56-i7 isn't a p170 oscillator; in fact, it isn't an oscillator at all, but an unstable pattern.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

77topaz wrote:The pattern http://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp1 ... s3a4a56-i7 isn't a p170 oscillator; in fact, it isn't an oscillator at all, but an unstable pattern.

On a similar note, and in the same rule, xp2268_2e74zzyzyzyr8es4 isn't actually a period 2268 oscillator:

`#C https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp2268_2e74zzyzyzyr8es4/b3aij4a5s3a4a56-i7/C1x = 113, y = 15, rule = B3aij4a5/S3a4a56-i72bo\$3o\$b3o\$bo8\$110bo\$110b3o\$109b3o\$111bo!`

There's definitely something wrong with apgluxe there that's going beyond "generation of symmetric sample soups is bugged".
If you speak, your speech must be better than your silence would have been. — Arabian proverb

Catagolue: Apple Bottom • Life Wiki: Apple Bottom • Twitter: @_AppleBottom_

Proud member of the Pattern Raiders!

Apple Bottom

Posts: 1025
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 2:06 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

I am not sure if this fits well, but:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl12_2_22_265dde0698064720edf4b164e0b16d95/b2ci3ai4c8s02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e
lists a p22 linear growth pattern. This one:
`x = 19, y = 15, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e16b2o\$5bo11b2o\$17bo\$12bobo2\$4bo3bo7b2o\$2bo14bo\$15b3o\$11b3o\$o2bo7bobo\$11b3o2b2o\$17b2o\$17bo\$16bo!`

However, it seems to be p44. Why apgsearch classifies it as p22? It is a rather small period.

2718281828

Posts: 737
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 5:38 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

2718281828 wrote:I am not sure if this fits well, but:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl12_2_22_265dde0698064720edf4b164e0b16d95/b2ci3ai4c8s02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e
lists a p22 linear growth pattern. This one: ... However, it seems to be p44. Why apgsearch classifies it as p22? It is a rather small period.

Apgsearch classifies oscillators and spaceships by period, but it does not do so for growing patterns. Those are classified by the repeat factor of their populations, which is often the same as their period, but is sometimes a fraction thereof. In this case, however, the period really is 22, aince the puffer possesses glide symmetry, and flips across the horizontal axis every 22 generations. (EDIT: Duh! As 77topaz pointed out this is period 44, mod 22. Oops!)
Last edited by mniemiec on March 22nd, 2018, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mniemiec

Posts: 1038
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

The weird thing is that 12 isn't a factor of 22.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

77topaz wrote:The weird thing is that 12 isn't a factor of 22.

Well, the first C1 sample soup gives this:
`x = 11, y = 8, rule = B2ci3ai4c8/S02ae3eijkq4iz5ar6i7e8b2o\$9bo\$5bo2b2o2\$9b2o\$3o7bo\$2bo5b3o\$b2o!`

Which is p12. So do the 2nd and 3rd. I assume the link is wrong, and 2718281828 is really talking about this puffer.
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.

danny

Posts: 961
Joined: October 27th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Yes, danny is right. I used the wrong link and figured out the correct one. But as this puffer is glide-symmetric and only the population count is used for determining the period, it makes sense with the explanation of mniemiec that is wrongly classified as yl22.

2718281828

Posts: 737
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 5:38 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

mniemiec wrote:In this case, however, the period really is 22, aince the puffer possesses glide symmetry, and flips across the horizontal axis every 22 generations.

That's the mod. The period as a whole would still be 44.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

Apgsearch cried wolf:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/ov_s16/b3s23
A 16 cell still life can’t possibly be big enough to overflow 40x40, can it?

wwei23

Posts: 936
Joined: May 22nd, 2017, 6:14 pm
Location: The (Life?) Universe

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

wwei23 wrote:Apgsearch cried wolf:
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/ov_s16/b3s23
A 16 cell still life can’t possibly be big enough to overflow 40x40, can it?

A still-life must be an object (or else the pseudo-object filter would eliminate it). In Life, a n-bit still-life can occupy at most n-2xn-4 or n-3xn-3 boxes (snakes or canoes). It is theoretically possible for objects in Moore-neighborhood rules to be more spaced out (e.g. 2n-1x2n-1 with live cells double spaced along a diagonal line, if you have S0), but even then, that would only be a pseudo-still-life.
mniemiec

Posts: 1038
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 12:00 am

### Re: Catagolue Oddities

The problem is, of course, that the pseudo-object filter isn't perfect. Though, that's mostly for OCA; usually it works well for CGoL. I see the one soup is coloured pink, which suggests it's some odd symmetry (inflated, maybe?); that could have to do with it.

77topaz

Posts: 1345
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 9:19 pm

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