Catagolue Oddities

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Apple Bottom
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » July 5th, 2017, 9:21 am

Apologies for double-posting, BTW --
drc wrote:This haul, submitted by muzik, contains several still lifes that are just the soup itself partitioned into objects, dots, and smaller groups of cells. It was committed, making the still life list look massive, when before it was just several 20-cell-and-under still lifes.

I feel like this could shed some light on the error checking that catagolue does, and maybe some extra checks could be done?
As far as I know there's no error real checking done by Catagolue, beyond (maybe) statistical testing to validate that the distribution of objects follows a kind of power law.

Trying to perform more advanced checks server-side would be prohibitively resource-intensive however, I imagine. And while peer review could be enabled for more rules, it really depends on having a certain number of contributors (ideally using different software, too, so that one person submitting wrong results with a buggy script doesn't then verify their own results).

As for this haul -- you may want to contact Calcyman directly and ask him to back it out of the database. A post in this thread may not be enough to call his attention to it.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » July 5th, 2017, 9:34 am

When I came back to my computer earlier it seemed to be enumerating the still lifes in the soup as if it were BS012345678.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » July 7th, 2017, 4:36 am

Maybe not an oddity, but it made me wonder -- the B3/S23/25p (25% density soups, I presume?) is currently at "125 696 408 objects generated from 200 000 soups".

That's ~628.5 objects/soup. For comparison both B3/S23/25pct and B3/S23/25% are at ~17.8 objects/soup ("168 090 934 objects generated from 9 436 100 soups" and "2 594 300 objects generated from 145 600 soups", respectively).

I haven't looked at the hauls for 25p, but I'm wondering if the script used to generate them is broken somehow.

(FWIW the only other rule that has a "25p" symmetry ATM is B378/S2678/25p, where the object-per-soup ratio roughly matches that of the corresponding C1 census.)
Last edited by Apple Bottom on August 28th, 2017, 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » July 9th, 2017, 7:40 pm

A genuine oddity -- B36/S1567 shows only me on the pie chart, even though I'm not the only contributor to that census.

Before I submitted two hauls for this rule, the census actually didn't have a pie chart at all, as can be seen in this screenshot.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by wildmyron » July 9th, 2017, 8:33 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:A genuine oddity -- B36/S1567 shows only me on the pie chart, even though I'm not the only contributor to that census.

Before I submitted two hauls for this rule, the census actually didn't have a pie chart at all, as can be seen in this screenshot.
From the apgsearch v1.0 thread:
calcyman wrote:In other Catagolue news, we now have a pie chart to display which contributors have submitted the most objects (since the time of adding the leaderboard, after which I strategically submitted a couple of 12.5-million-soup hauls to give myself a head start!) for a particular census:
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » July 10th, 2017, 5:39 am

wildmyron wrote:From the apgsearch v1.0 thread:
calcyman wrote:In other Catagolue news, we now have a pie chart to display which contributors have submitted the most objects (since the time of adding the leaderboard, after which I strategically submitted a couple of 12.5-million-soup hauls to give myself a head start!) for a particular census:
Interesting. Now that you mention it, yes, the pie charts only say "Objects per contributor since 2015-02-27", but that there haul was submitted a day *before* that.

I don't think I've ever seen a haul dated earlier than February 28 2015.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » July 14th, 2017, 10:38 pm

I'm not sure where that block spark comes from in https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... s23-a4artz

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by calcyman » July 15th, 2017, 4:08 am

Saka wrote:I'm not sure where that block spark comes from in https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... s23-a4artz
Generation 833, rotated 180 degrees.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » July 21st, 2017, 12:23 pm


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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » July 25th, 2017, 1:22 pm


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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » July 25th, 2017, 1:48 pm

That's certainly true -- it's a classification used for objects whose code has either not been properly figured out, or which may not have a well-defined code in the first place.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Rhombic » July 26th, 2017, 4:09 am

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Saka » July 29th, 2017, 2:33 am

This is worrying, a still life and a p8 ship has been listed as xq1
https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2 ... /D2_+1/xq1

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Apple Bottom » July 29th, 2017, 5:41 am

Saka wrote:This is worrying, a still life and a p8 ship has been listed as xq1
https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2 ... /D2_+1/xq1
Reported here. (Shame though, when I first saw these I thought we had some genuine photons on Catagolue.)
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » July 30th, 2017, 7:54 pm

I would like to know, what exactly is stopping photons from being catalogued?

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by toroidalet » July 30th, 2017, 8:35 pm

muzik wrote:I would like to know, what exactly is stopping photons from being catalogued?
I think it's that the photons require B1e or B2a, which cause rules to (usually) explode and expand forever.
Also, where is the p22 in this soup? (this soup apparently contains an ov_p22)

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B2c3ajk46-ak/S1c237e8
bo2b2o4b3o2bo$2ob4obobobo2bo$2bo2b4o2bob3o$4b5ob2ob2o$3o2b2o2bobobobo$
4b2obo2bobob2o$o2b2ob2o5b3o$ob2obobo2b3o2bo$bobo2bobob2obobo$o2b8o3bo$
bo5b3o3bobo$2o2bobo5bobo$4b2o6b4o$2o3b2o4bo$b3o3b6o2bo$3ob2ob4obo2bo!
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » July 30th, 2017, 8:51 pm

...then what's stopping it from cataloging stable rules with photons?

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by BlinkerSpawn » July 31st, 2017, 8:05 am

Here's a natural p11, which is actually self-inverse (see gen. 3):

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B2c3ajk46-ak/S1c237e8
2bo$b3o$3o$bo!
Presumably, the ov_p22 is this next to some p1/p2 junk that wasn't properly separated.
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by drc » July 31st, 2017, 8:12 am

BlinkerSpawn wrote:Here's a natural p11, which is actually self-inverse (see gen. 3):

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B2c3ajk46-ak/S1c237e8
2bo$b3o$3o$bo!
Presumably, the ov_p22 is this next to some p1/p2 junk that wasn't properly separated.
It also might be this but with lots of junk around it:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 14, rule = B2c3ajk46-ak/S1c237e8
2bo$b3o$3o$bo2$5b4o$5bo2bo$5bobo$5b2o2$12bo$11b3o$10b3o$11bo!

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » July 31st, 2017, 10:20 am

Catagolue lists these as being different:

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 31, rule = B2c3aj4nrt5i6c78/S1-e23enr4aet5-iq67
o2b2o5b2o2bo12b2o2bo2bo2b4o16bo2bob2ob4o$b4obobo3bo2bo10b2obo3bob2o2bo
15bo3bo4bo3b2o$2ob2ob2o3b2ob2o10b2obob2o2bo5bo14bo4bo3b2obo$2bob2ob2o
3b2o14b2o2b2o3bob2o15b5o2b2obo2bo$b2ob3ob2o2b2obo10b3obob5o2bo16b2obo
2bobo2bo$o2b4o3bo2b2o12b2o3bobobo17bobobobob2obo3bo$2bobo4b3obo13b4o2b
o2bo2b3o12b2o3b3o$b4obo5b2o13b3o7bob2o14bob2ob2obobob2o$2bob3o4b4o11b
3o2b3ob2o17b2obo7b3o$2o3bo4b3obo12b3obobo4bobo14bo2b2o2b2ob2obo$obob2o
bo2bob2o13b2obobobobo2bobo12b4o2b3o5b2o$3ob2ob6obo15bob2obo2b4o13b4ob
2o2b5o$ob2ob5o3bobo12b2ob2o3bobobo13bo2b3obobo3b2o$4ob3obobo3bo13b3o5b
2o16bo2b2obo2bobob2o$5bo3bo2bo13b5ob2o2bo3bo13b5o6b2o2bo$ob4obob2ob2o
12bobo3b2ob2o3bo13b8o2bobo2bo$5bo3bo2bo13b5ob2o2bo3bo13b5o6b2o2bo$4ob
3obobo3bo13b3o5b2o16bo2b2obo2bobob2o$ob2ob5o3bobo12b2ob2o3bobobo13bo2b
3obobo3b2o$3ob2ob6obo15bob2obo2b4o13b4ob2o2b5o$obob2obo2bob2o13b2obobo
bobo2bobo12b4o2b3o5b2o$2o3bo4b3obo12b3obobo4bobo14bo2b2o2b2ob2obo$2bob
3o4b4o11b3o2b3ob2o17b2obo7b3o$b4obo5b2o13b3o7bob2o14bob2ob2obobob2o$2b
obo4b3obo13b4o2bo2bo2b3o12b2o3b3o$o2b4o3bo2b2o12b2o3bobobo17bobobobob
2obo3bo$b2ob3ob2o2b2obo10b3obob5o2bo16b2obo2bobo2bo$2bob2ob2o3b2o14b2o
2b2o3bob2o15b5o2b2obo2bo$2ob2ob2o3b2ob2o10b2obob2o2bo5bo14bo4bo3b2obo$
b4obobo3bo2bo10b2obo3bob2o2bo15bo3bo4bo3b2o$o2b2o5b2o2bo12b2o2bo2bo2b
4o16bo2bob2ob4o!
https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2 ... /D2_+1/yl8

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by Rhombic » August 1st, 2017, 2:52 pm

muzik wrote:Catagolue lists these as being different:

Code: Select all

yl8
https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b2 ... /D2_+1/yl8
They have different stabilisations at the base
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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by muzik » August 1st, 2017, 3:19 pm

But shouldn't Catagolue only be considering the section that's getting stretched?

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by gameoflifeboy » August 1st, 2017, 3:47 pm

It doesn't work that way. If it did, this page would have only one object on it.

For wickstretchers, everything touching the wick is considered part of the pattern. I think that distinguishing them this way is more natural, because the debris can't be classified as a still life, oscillator or spaceship as it's connected to the engine.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by wwei23 » August 3rd, 2017, 5:36 pm

Apple Bottom wrote:Maybe not an oddity, but it made me wonder -- the [https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/25p]B3/S23/25p[/url] (25% density soups, I presume?) is currently at "125 696 408 objects generated from 200 000 soups".

That's ~628.5 objects/soup. For comparison both B3/S23/25pct and B3/S23/25% are at ~17.8 objects/soup ("168 090 934 objects generated from 9 436 100 soups" and "2 594 300 objects generated from 145 600 soups", respectively).

I haven't looked at the hauls for 25p, but I'm wondering if the script used to generate them is broken somehow.

(FWIW the only other rule that has a "25p" symmetry ATM is B378/S2678/25p, where the object-per-soup ratio roughly matches that of the corresponding C1 census.)
It was the way I did things. Basically, take a 16x16 soup, and replace each cell with a 16x16 block of cells. Then replace each 16x16 block of cells with the original soup. It was the only way I could get 25p to work.

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Re: Catagolue Oddities

Post by toroidalet » August 3rd, 2017, 7:01 pm

wwei23 wrote:Basically, take a 16x16 soup, and replace each cell with a 16x16 block of cells. Then replace each 16x16 block of cells with the original soup. It was the only way I could get 25p to work.
That is sort of complicated and definitely not what 25p should be. Why not just take 2 soups and AND them? (75p could be created by taking 2 soups and ORing them.)
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