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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 4th, 2016, 12:03 pm

Are corderships considered elementary or engineered spaceships?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby mollwollfumble » July 18th, 2016, 8:15 pm

Hi, I'm a newby, although I've been a fan since the 70s when Martin Gardner published the first article about it in Scientific American.

An equation recently appeared in http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... eginning1/
It occurred to me that this equation could be applied to Conway's Life. The equation is:
Image

To be specific, given a "planet" of 1000 km square with cells 1 mm to a side, how many times would you need to randomly restart it to find among the products a glider gun that survives for at least one cycle with 50% probability?

Given assumptions too embarrassingly crude to describe here, but based on the known occurrence frequency of the queen bee oscillator, one in every 285 million particles of ash, I calculate about 650 restarts. Give or take a factor of 10,000. What do you get?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Rhombic » July 19th, 2016, 7:08 am

I have a question about this notation:

A rule where the cells stay alive with 4 neighbours EXCEPT when it is 4c or 4e... is it notated B*/S*4-c-e or B*/S*4-ce?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 19th, 2016, 6:47 pm

What are the exact speeds of the 0hd and 10hd Demonoid spaceships? On the wiki and forums, I see a lot of different values on different pages and want to know which one is correct.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby wildmyron » July 19th, 2016, 9:17 pm

Rhombic wrote:I have a question about this notation:

A rule where the cells stay alive with 4 neighbours EXCEPT when it is 4c or 4e... is it notated B*/S*4-c-e or B*/S*4-ce?
Cheers.

The latter is the notation used as the minus sign indicates that the given list of neighborhoods should be excluded from the transitions for that total. According to Hensel's original description of the notation, use of the minus sign is optional - it is provided as a convenience to reduce the length of some rule specifications,

Plesae note that the notation used recently on this forum is slightly different: see http://www.ibiblio.org/lifepatterns/neighbors2.html
for the neighborhood specification adopted here.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Rhombic » July 20th, 2016, 6:01 am

wildmyron wrote:
Rhombic wrote:I have a question about this notation:

A rule where the cells stay alive with 4 neighbours EXCEPT when it is 4c or 4e... is it notated B*/S*4-c-e or B*/S*4-ce?
Cheers.

The latter is the notation used as the minus sign indicates that the given list of neighborhoods should be excluded from the transitions for that total. According to Hensel's original description of the notation, use of the minus sign is optional - it is provided as a convenience to reduce the length of some rule specifications,

Plesae note that the notation used recently on this forum is slightly different: see http://www.ibiblio.org/lifepatterns/neighbors2.html
for the neighborhood specification adopted here.


Thank you very much! I read a while ago about someone who suggested coding a program to generate rule tables for these notations. Has it been done? Again, thanks.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 20th, 2016, 8:15 am

wildmyron wrote:The latter is the notation used as the minus sign indicates that the given list of neighborhoods should be excluded from the transitions for that total. According to Hensel's original description of the notation, use of the minus sign is optional - it is provided as a convenience to reduce the length of some rule specifications,

To clarify this a little more: the minus sign is optional in the sense that there's an equivalent positive way of specifying the same rule, i.e., B*/S*4kainyqjrtwz (if I'm reading the table right). It's not optional in the other sense: you can't just leave out the minus sign, or you'll end up with a rule that's "ONLY IF c or e" instead of "EXCEPT c or e".

[Yes, this is probably obvious.]

The interesting problem, which I don't think has been quite completely addressed yet, is that we don't have a definite "canonical" form of every rule. Some rules (though only relatively few, with entries in the '4' column) could be specified negatively or positively with the same number of characters. I guess my suggestion would be to minimize the number of lowercase letters used, but use a positive list if it will be the same length as a negative list (since that will save one minus sign).

That would mean, for example, that B*/S*4-cekain would be the canonical form of B*/S*4yqjrtwz.

Rhombic wrote:Thank you very much! I read a while ago about someone who suggested coding a program to generate rule tables for these notations. Has it been done? Again, thanks.

This script works okay as far as I have heard.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby shouldsee » July 20th, 2016, 2:21 pm

An unrelevant question about functionality of golly.

my golly runs superslow when I run pattern under rule 'v3k4_temp:S400' (or any other bounded grid).
where v3k4_temp.rule is specified with
@RULE v3k4_temp

@COLORS

0 0 0 0
1 0 155 155
2 200 200 0
3 200 0 200



@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:vonNeumann
symmetries:permute

var a={1}
var b={2}

var d={0}

var j={0,1,2}





j,0,0,0,0,2
j,0,0,0,1,1
j,0,0,1,1,2
j,0,1,1,1,0
j,1,1,1,1,0
j,2,0,0,0,1
j,2,1,0,0,1
j,2,1,1,0,0
j,2,1,1,1,2
j,2,2,0,0,2
j,2,2,1,0,0
j,2,2,1,1,1
j,2,2,2,0,0
j,2,2,2,1,1
j,2,2,2,2,1


is there any way to fix this?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 20th, 2016, 3:27 pm

shouldsee wrote:An unrelevant question about functionality of golly.

my golly runs superslow when I run pattern under rule 'v3k4_temp:S400' (or any other bounded grid)...
is there any way to fix this?

Not really -- at least, not without rewriting bounded-grid support in Golly. As other threads have mentioned, Golly doesn't really support bounded grids, it only tolerates them... Golly does lots of extra processing all around the edges to make any bounded grid work, so for large bounded grids a simulation can be orders of magnitude slower than an unbounded version.

There is a workaround available for non-wrapping grids (:Px,y) only, if you're willing to write more complex rules. Add an additional "boundary" state to the rule definition, set the rule up so that a boundary cell counts as off but never dies itself, and draw a boundary of whatever size you want around the pattern you want to simulate.

Golly can run that kind of thing with the HashLife algorithm at its usual ridiculous speeds, for reasonable-sized not-too-random patterns. Anyway it will be enormously faster than using a bounded grid.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 20th, 2016, 3:40 pm

muzik wrote:What are the exact speeds of the 0hd and 10hd Demonoid spaceships? On the wiki and forums, I see a lot of different values on different pages and want to know which one is correct.

pls?

For the 10hd I've seen c/12700 and 65c/818356, and for the 0hd I've seen 13c/96228 and 65c/438852...


I want the wiki to be correct
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby shouldsee » July 20th, 2016, 4:24 pm

dvgrn wrote:
shouldsee wrote:An unrelevant question about functionality of golly.

my golly runs superslow when I run pattern under rule 'v3k4_temp:S400' (or any other bounded grid)...
is there any way to fix this?

Not really -- at least, not without rewriting bounded-grid support in Golly. As other threads have mentioned, Golly doesn't really support bounded grids, it only tolerates them... Golly does lots of extra processing all around the edges to make any bounded grid work, so for large bounded grids a simulation can be orders of magnitude slower than an unbounded version.

There is a workaround available for non-wrapping grids (:Px,y) only, if you're willing to write more complex rules. Add an additional "boundary" state to the rule definition, set the rule up so that a boundary cell counts as off but never dies itself, and draw a boundary of whatever size you want around the pattern you want to simulate.

Golly can run that kind of thing with the HashLife algorithm at its usual ridiculous speeds, for reasonable-sized not-too-random patterns. Anyway it will be enormously faster than using a bounded grid.


Let me clarify my question.

The problem is not being too slow. My golly almost crash when I tried to run a such rule. If I was running any other rule on S300 it would be perfectly fine.

This kind of rule is special where 0-cell spontaneous transit to other state, which cause the whole universe to be filled, which means it's a lot easier to test them on bounded grids. Disappointedly it's not working that way and I would really know is there any way around to test such rule on a finite space. (otherwise it would explode in infinite space very shortly)

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 20th, 2016, 4:45 pm

muzik wrote:For the 10hd I've seen c/12700 and 65c/818356, and for the 0hd I've seen 13c/96228 and 65c/438852...

Those are all correct.

For 0hd, the Demonoid gun that chris_c built shoots 13c/96228 0hd Demonoids. But the most optimized 0hd Demonoid is period 438852.

-- Really you could just say 65c/(438852+8N)... except nowadays we could build a 0hd Demonoid to be quite a bit faster than 65c/438852.

For the 10hd case, the sample that chris_c and I built was c/12700, but the underlying adjustable mechanism is 130c/(1636712+16N), also known as 65c/(818356+8N). The period is adjustable to 1636712+16N.

The 16N is basically because the 10hd Demonoid had to build two replicator units to get back to where it started. But the 10hd construction library was a little more efficient, which explains why 818356 is less than 2*438852.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 20th, 2016, 4:54 pm

dvgrn wrote:
muzik wrote:For the 10hd I've seen c/12700 and 65c/818356, and for the 0hd I've seen 13c/96228 and 65c/438852...
For 0hd, the Demonoid gun that chris_c built shoots 13c/96228 0hd Demonoids. But the most optimized 0hd Demonoid is period 438852.

So the 13c/96228 Demonoid is a different spaceship to the other two?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 20th, 2016, 5:12 pm

shouldsee wrote:The problem is not being too slow. My golly almost crash when I tried to run a such rule. If I was running any other rule on S300 it would be perfectly fine.

This kind of rule is special where 0-cell spontaneous transit to other state, which cause the whole universe to be filled, which means it's a lot easier to test them on bounded grids. Disappointedly it's not working that way and I would really know is there any way around to test such rule on a finite space. (otherwise it would explode in infinite space very shortly)

Hmm, you're right -- Golly's slowness with this rule on a bounded grid is more like painful slowness squared, not just the usual painful slowness of bounded grids.

And with the equivalent of a B0 transition in the rule, my suggestion of drawing a boundary around the pattern is not going to do very much good!

The only workaround I can think of offhand would be to write a script to handle long runs of patterns. Basically, run for 3N ticks, for some reasonable value of N, and then copy out the center part of the pattern and start running it in a new universe. Otherwise it looks like the rule is susceptible to patches of chaos in the corners of the big blocks that Golly generates.

Alternatively, you could write with a new rule that simulates every third generation of this one. That should avoid the problem with flickering infinite explosions.

A small c/3 spaceship showed up while I was playing around with this rule -- you've probably already seen it:

x = 5, y = 2, rule = v3k4_temp
.A.A$B.B.B!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Alexey_Nigin » July 21st, 2016, 4:45 am

dvgrn wrote:And with the equivalent of a B0 transition in the rule, my suggestion of drawing a boundary around the pattern is not going to do very much good!


While this exact thing will not work, there is a solution along similar lines. Instead of behaving like a constantly off cell, the new cell state should behave like state 0, and state 0 should never change. Then you can draw a solid rectangle with the new state and simulate patterns inside. If you don't get what I mean, see Golly>Patterns>Loops>Evoloop-finite.rle.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby shouldsee » July 21st, 2016, 7:48 am

Alexey_Nigin wrote:
dvgrn wrote:And with the equivalent of a B0 transition in the rule, my suggestion of drawing a boundary around the pattern is not going to do very much good!


While this exact thing will not work, there is a solution along similar lines. Instead of behaving like a constantly off cell, the new cell state should behave like state 0, and state 0 should never change. Then you can draw a solid rectangle with the new state and simulate patterns inside. If you don't get what I mean, see Golly>Patterns>Loops>Evoloop-finite.rle.



Thanks for suggestion.

It took me 10 mins to realise this idea is exactly the same as space fabrication, :)
But it worked.

Modified rule
@RULE v3k4_temp

@COLORS

0 0 0 0
1 0 155 155
2 200 200 0
3 200 0 200



@TABLE
n_states:4
neighborhood:vonNeumann
symmetries:permute

var a={1}
var b={2}

var d={3}

var j={1,2,3}





j,d,d,d,d,2
j,d,d,d,1,1
j,d,d,1,1,2
j,d,1,1,1,d
j,1,1,1,1,d
j,2,d,d,d,1
j,2,1,d,d,1
j,2,1,1,d,d
j,2,1,1,1,2
j,2,2,d,d,2
j,2,2,1,d,d
j,2,2,1,1,1
j,2,2,2,d,d
j,2,2,2,1,1
j,2,2,2,2,1


As to that small spaceship, it was one of the reason that I want to test this rule.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 21st, 2016, 2:41 pm

Just wanting to settle this old argument hopefully once and for all: are corderships considered engineered or elementary?

I've shifted my viewpoint to calling them engineered now. Although they don't resemble the existing 17c/45, 31c/240 and (23,5)c/79 caterpillars (switch engines don't act as crawlers), they're still constructed of strategically placed smaller patterns. They fit with the engineered theme of their speeds being fixed by their design.

I'd say they're just borderline elementary.

Spaghetti monster is still definitely elementary. Can't seperate that into crawlers, etc.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Goldtiger997 » July 22nd, 2016, 8:13 pm

I am wondering if breeders such as this one are notable enough to post, or they are kind of trivial.

If they are notable enough where should I post them?

x = 584, y = 345, rule = B3/S23
128bo$128b4o$130b2o$133bo$130b4o$123bo10bo$123b3o4bo2b3o$125b2o5b3o$
126bo6bo$126bobob3o$119b4o5b2o2bo$118b6o2bo3b2o$37b2o79b4ob2o2b4o$33b
4ob2o82b2o$33b6o88b4o263b6o129bo$34b4o88bo3b2o261bo5bo114b4o11b4o$120b
o7b2o2bo266bo113b6o5bo6b2o$98b4o22bobobob3o63bo196bo4bo114b4ob2o4b3o7b
o$97b6o17b2o2bobo6bo47b4o11b4o195b2o29b5o86b2o7b2ob6o$97b4ob2o15b2o4b
2o5b3o45b6o5bo6b2o225bo4bo91b4o9bobo$101b2o10bobo4b6o4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b
3o7bo228bo6b4o80bo3bo4bob7o$86b4o23b2o6b4o9bo49b2o7b2ob6o223bo3bo6bo3b
o74bo7b3o4bo7b2o$85bo3bo17bobo4bo15b4o55b4o9bobo222bo12bo78bobobo3b2o
4b2o4b2o$89bo17b2o24bo54bo3bo4bob7o230bo2bo75b2o2bobo8bo2bo4b2o$37b4o
44bo2bo12bobo4bo21b2o58b3o4bo7b2o307b2o4b2o8bobo$36b6o59b2o25b4o54bobo
bo3b2o4b2o4b2o300bobo4b6o17b2o$36b4ob2o54bo4bo25bo57bobo8bo2bo4b2o260b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o6b4o8bobo4b2o2b2o$40b2o54bo
81bobo4bob2o8bobo268bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o4bo20bo4b3o
2b2o$96bo81b2o6b2o17b2o321bo2bo6bob3o$136b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2bobo4bo6bo8bobo4b2o2b2o254b2o3b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o4bo20bo4b3o2b2o$135bobo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23bo
4b3o2b2o262b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o6b4o8bobo4b2o2b2o$
132b2o61bo2bo6bob3o298bobo4b6o17b2o$131bo5bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o23bo4b3o2b2o223bo81b2o4b2o8bobo$132b2o3bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2bobo4bo6bo8bobo4b2o2b2o223b2o28bo53b2o2bobo8bo2bo4b2o$
136bo41b2o6b2o17b2o224bobo4bo22b4o54bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$178bobo4bob2o8b
obo218bo2bo15b2o24b2o50bo7b3o4bo7b2o$103bo2bo79bobo8bo2bo4b2o215bo8b2o
4bobo4bo21bo54bo3bo4bob7o$94bo12bo78bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o210bo3bo20b2o18b
4o55b4o9bobo$92bo3bo6bo3bo82b3o4bo7b2o212b4o20bobo4bo6bo9bo49b2o7b2ob
6o$97bo6b4o80bo3bo4bob7o228b2o13b2o6b2o4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7bo$92bo4bo
91b4o9bobo225b4ob2o12bobo4bob2o5b3o45b6o5bo6b2o$62b2o29b5o86b2o7b2ob6o
228b6o21bobo6bo47b4o11b4o$60bo4bo114b4ob2o4b3o7bo229b4o22bobobob3o63bo
$66bo113b6o5bo6b2o261b2o2bo$60bo5bo114b4o11b4o259bo3b2o$61b6o129bo263b
4o$455b2o$3bo447b4ob2o2b4o$4b2o445b6o2bo3b2o$3b2o447b4o5b2o2bo$459bobo
b3o$459bo6bo$458b2o5b3o$456b3o4bo2b3o$456bo10bo$7b2o290b2o162b4o$9bo
291bo164bo$6bo291bo164b2o$3o4b2o5b3o282b2o160b4o4bo$o2bo10bo2bo443bo7b
4o$o13bo456b2o$o13bo459bo$bobo11bobo453b4o$177b6o129bo151bo10bo$176bo
5bo114b4o11b4o148b3o4bo2b3o$182bo113b6o5bo6b2o150b2o5b3o$176bo4bo114b
4ob2o4b3o7bo149bo6bo$178b2o29b5o86b2o7b2ob6o149bobob3o$208bo4bo91b4o9b
obo148b2o2bo$213bo6b4o80bo3bo4bob7o141b2o2bo3b2o$208bo3bo6bo3bo82b3o4b
o7b2o136b4ob2o2b4o$210bo12bo78bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o135b6o$219bo2bo79bobo
8bo2bo4b2o137b4o4b4o$294bobo4bob2o8bobo151bo3b2o$268bo25b2o6b2o17b2o
146b2o2bo$264b2o3bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2bobo4bo6bo8bobo4b2o2b2o140b2obobob
3o63bo$263bo5bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23bo4b3o2b2o117b2o19b3obo6bo62b4o$
264b2o45bo2bo6bob3o112b4ob2o12bo4b2o2b2o5b3o49b2o5bo6b2o$267bobo2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23bo4b3o2b2o101bo2bo8b6o11b2o6bo2bo4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7b
o$268b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2bobo4bo6bo8bobo4b2o2b2o106bo8b4o8bo4b2o6b2o9b
o45b6o7b2ob6o$212bo81b2o6b2o17b2o103bo3bo18b2o20b4o47b4o4b4o9bobo$212b
o81bobo4bob2o8bobo111b4o14bo4b2o22bo54bo3bo4bob7o$213bo4bo25bo57bobo8b
o2bo4b2o120b2o26b2o58b3o4bo7b2o$217b2o25b4o54bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o113b2o
5b2o23b4o48bobo3bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$201bo2bo12bobo4bo21b2o58b3o4bo7b2o
114b2o30bo51bobo3bobo8bo2bo4b2o$205bo17b2o24bo54bo3bo4bob7o116b2o80b2o
6b2o8bobo$201bo3bo17bobo4bo15b4o55b4o9bobo157bo37bo4b2o4b2o17b2o$202b
4o23b2o6b4o9bo49b2o7b2ob6o156b2o3bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o20bobo4b2o2b2o$217b2o10bobo4b6o4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7bo155bo5bo2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o21bo4b3o2b2o$213b4ob2o15b2o4b2o5b3o45b6o
5bo6b2o158b2o60bo2bo6bob3o$213b6o17b2o2bobo6bo47b4o11b4o161bobo2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o21bo4b3o2b2o$214b4o22bobobob3o63bo165b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o20bobo4b2o2b2o$236bo7b2o2bo267bo4b
2o4b2o17b2o$242bo3b2o272b2o6b2o8bobo$243b4o274bobo3bobo8bo2bo4b2o$238b
2o205b4o72bobo3bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$234b4ob2o2b4o197bo3bo82b3o4bo7b2o$
234b6o2bo3b2o186b5o9bo80bo3bo4bob7o$235b4o5b2o2bo184bo4bo5bo2bo74b4o4b
4o9bobo$242bobob3o189bo82b6o7b2ob6o$242bo6bo183bo3bo83b4ob2o4b3o7bo$
241b2o5b3o151b6o27bo89b2o5bo6b2o$239b3o4bo2b3o149bo5bo129b4o$239bo10bo
156bo129bo$246b4o151bo4bo$183bo65bo153b2o$183b4o59b2o188b2o$185b2o57b
4o186bo4bo$188bo55bo195bo129bo$185b4o245bo5bo129b4o$178bo10bo245b6o27b
o89b2o5bo6b2o$178b3o4bo2b3o275bo3bo83b4ob2o4b3o7bo$180b2o5b3o281bo82b
6o7b2ob6o$181bo6bo277bo4bo5bo2bo74b4o4b4o9bobo$181bobob3o279b5o9bo80bo
3bo4bob7o$174b4o5b2o2bo289bo3bo82b3o4bo7b2o$173b6o2bo3b2o291b4o72bobo
3bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$173b4ob2o2b4o368bobo3bobo8bo2bo4b2o$177b2o374b2o6b
2o8bobo$182b4o363bo4b2o4b2o17b2o$181bo3b2o340b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
20bobo4b2o2b2o$183b2o2bo339b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o21bo4b3o2b2o$153b4o
22bobobob3o63bo317bo2bo6bob3o$152b6o21bobo6bo47b4o11b4o272b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o3b2o21bo4b3o2b2o$152b4ob2o12bobo4bob2o5b3o45b6o5bo6b2o272b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o20bobo4b2o2b2o$156b2o13b2o6b2o4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7bo
154b4o134bo4b2o4b2o17b2o$141b4o20bobo4bo6bo9bo49b2o7b2ob6o153b6o55b2o
80b2o6b2o8bobo$140bo3bo20b2o18b4o55b4o9bobo150b4ob2o53b2o30bo51bobo3bo
bo8bo2bo4b2o$144bo8b2o4bobo4bo21bo54bo3bo4bob7o153b2o54b2o5b2o23b4o48b
obo3bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$140bo2bo15b2o24b2o50bo7b3o4bo7b2o214b2o26b2o58b
3o4bo7b2o$153bobo4bo22b4o54bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o197b4o14bo4b2o22bo54bo3bo
4bob7o$153b2o28bo53b2o2bobo8bo2bo4b2o197bo3bo18b2o20b4o47b4o4b4o9bobo$
154bo81b2o4b2o8bobo208bo8b4o8bo4b2o6b2o9bo45b6o7b2ob6o$230bobo4b6o17b
2o197bo2bo8b6o11b2o6bo2bo4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7bo$197b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o6b4o8bobo4b2o2b2o208b4ob2o12bo4b2o2b2o5b3o49b2o5bo6b2o
$188b2o3b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o4bo20bo4b3o2b2o211b2o19b3ob
o6bo62b4o$250bo2bo6bob3o232b2obobob3o63bo$194bo2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o4bo20bo4b3o2b2o238b2o2bo$193b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o3b2o6b4o8bobo4b2o2b2o237bo3b2o$230bobo4b6o17b2o149b2o80b4o4b4o$
236b2o4b2o8bobo152b4ob2o78b6o$158bo2bo75b2o2bobo8bo2bo4b2o145b6o79b4ob
2o2b4o$149bo12bo78bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o145b4o84b2o2bo3b2o$147bo3bo6bo3bo
74bo7b3o4bo7b2o240b2o2bo$152bo6b4o80bo3bo4bob7o239bobob3o$147bo4bo91b
4o9bobo240bo6bo$117b2o29b5o86b2o7b2ob6o242b2o5b3o$115bo4bo114b4ob2o4b
3o7bo240b3o4bo2b3o$121bo113b6o5bo6b2o242bo10bo$115bo5bo114b4o11b4o249b
4o$116b6o129bo255bo$504b2o$502b4o$502bo11$173b4o$172b6o115b2o12bobo$
172b4ob2o112bo4bo10bo2bo$176b2o119bo4bo7b2o$205b3o83bo5bo4bob2o6bo$
204b5o83b6o7bo2b6o$204b3ob2o6b2o82b4o3bo7b2o$207b2o6b4o85bo4bob3o3bo$
215b2ob2o78bo2bob2o2bob2o3bo3bo$217b2o74b2o6bo5bo3b2o5bo$292b3o2bobo7b
ob4o3b3o$292bo6bo9bo$286bo5bo6bo7bobo6b3o$241b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3bobo4bo4bo8bo5bo5bo$241b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o7b2o11b2o3bob2o3bo$307b3o6bo3bo$241b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o7b2o11b2o3bob2o3bo$241b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3bobo4bo4bo8bo5bo5bo$151b6o129bo5bo6bo7bob
o6b3o$150bo5bo52b2o81bo6bo9bo$156bo52bobo27bobo50b3o2bobo7bob4o3b3o$
150bo4bo53bo5b2o22bo2bo50b2o6bo5bo3b2o5bo$152b2o55bo5bobo24b2o54bo2bob
2o2bob2o3bo3bo$199b2o14bo5b2o21bo59bo4bob3o3bo$197b2ob2o19bobo18b4o54b
4o3bo7b2o$197b4o20bo5b2o6b2o4bo4bo45b6o7bo2b6o$198b2o9b6o12bobo4bo2bo
5bo2bo44bo5bo4bob2o6bo$208bo5bo12bo6bo2bo5bo2bo50bo4bo7b2o$214bo19b2ob
o7bo45bo4bo10bo2bo$149b2o57bo4bo25bob4o48b2o12bobo$147bo4bo57b2o24bo2b
o3bo$153bo88bo$147bo5bo84b5o$148b6o76b6o61b6o129bo$229bo5bo2b5o53bo5bo
114b4o11b4o$235bo6bo59bo113b6o5bo6b2o$229bo4bo4bo3bo52bo4bo114b4ob2o4b
3o7bo$231b2o6bob4o53b2o29b5o86b2o7b2ob6o$237bo7bo82bo4bo91b4o9bobo$
237bo5bo2bo86bo6b4o80bo3bo4bob7o$234bob2o5bo2bo81bo3bo6bo3bo74bo7b3o4b
o7b2o$234bo6bo4bo83bo12bo78bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$242b4o93bo2bo75b2o2bobo
8bo2bo4b2o$244bo172b2o4b2o8bobo$242b2o167bobo4b6o17b2o$239bo2bo91b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
3b2o6b4o8bobo4b2o2b2o$239bobo92b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o4bo20bo4b3o2b2o$431bo2bo6bob3o$
334b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o4bo20bo4b3o2b2o$334b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o3b2o6b4o8bobo4b2o2b2o$411bobo4b6o17b2o
$335bo81b2o4b2o8bobo$334b2o28bo53b2o2bobo8bo2bo4b2o$334bobo4bo22b4o54b
obobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$321bo2bo15b2o24b2o50bo7b3o4bo7b2o$325bo8b2o4bobo4bo
21bo54bo3bo4bob7o$321bo3bo20b2o18b4o55b4o9bobo$322b4o20bobo4bo6bo9bo
49b2o7b2ob6o$337b2o13b2o6b2o4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7bo$333b4ob2o12bobo4bob
2o5b3o45b6o5bo6b2o$333b6o21bobo6bo47b4o11b4o$334b4o22bobobob3o63bo$
364b2o2bo$362bo3b2o$363b4o$358b2o$354b4ob2o2b4o$354b6o2bo3b2o$355b4o5b
2o2bo$362bobob3o$362bo6bo$361b2o5b3o$359b3o4bo2b3o$359bo10bo$366b4o$
303bo65bo$303b4o59b2o$305b2o57b4o$308bo55bo$305b4o$298bo10bo$298b3o4bo
2b3o$300b2o5b3o$301bo6bo$301bobob3o$294b4o5b2o2bo$293b6o2bo3b2o$293b4o
b2o2b4o$297b2o$302b4o$301bo3b2o$295bo7b2o2bo$273b4o22bobobob3o63bo$
272b6o17b2o2bobo6bo47b4o11b4o$272b4ob2o15b2o4b2o5b3o45b6o5bo6b2o$276b
2o10bobo4b6o4bo2b3o44b4ob2o4b3o7bo$261b4o23b2o6b4o9bo49b2o7b2ob6o$260b
o3bo17bobo4bo15b4o55b4o9bobo$264bo17b2o24bo54bo3bo4bob7o$260bo2bo12bob
o4bo21b2o58b3o4bo7b2o$276b2o25b4o54bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$272bo4bo25bo57bo
bo8bo2bo4b2o$271bo81bobo4bob2o8bobo$271bo81b2o6b2o17b2o$311b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2bobo4bo6bo8bobo4b2o2b2o$311b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23bo4b3o2b2o$370bo2bo6bob3o$311b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b
2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23bo4b3o2b2o$311b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o
2b2o2bobo4bo6bo8bobo4b2o2b2o$353b2o6b2o17b2o$353bobo4bob2o8bobo$278bo
2bo79bobo8bo2bo4b2o$269bo12bo78bobobo3b2o4b2o4b2o$267bo3bo6bo3bo82b3o
4bo7b2o$272bo6b4o80bo3bo4bob7o$267bo4bo91b4o9bobo$237b2o29b5o86b2o7b2o
b6o$235bo4bo114b4ob2o4b3o7bo$241bo113b6o5bo6b2o$235bo5bo114b4o11b4o$
236b6o129bo13$240b3o$242bo50b4o$241bo50b6o115b2o12bobo$292b4ob2o112bo
4bo10bo2bo$296b2o119bo4bo7b2o$325b3o83bo5bo4bob2o6bo$324b5o83b6o7bo2b
6o$324b3ob2o6b2o82b4o3bo7b2o$327b2o6b4o85bo4bob3o3bo$335b2ob2o78bo2bob
2o2bob2o3bo3bo$337b2o82bo5bo3b2o5bo$416b2obo7bob4o3b3o$409bo6bo2bo9bo$
409bobo4bo2bo7bobo6b3o$363b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2bo5b
2o6b2o8bo5bo5bo$363b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23b2o3bo
b2o3bo$363b2o62b3o6bo3bo$367b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o23b
2o3bob2o3bo$367b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2b2o2bo5b2o6b2o8bo5bo5bo
$271b6o132bobo4bo2bo7bobo6b3o$270bo5bo50b2o80bo6bo2bo9bo$276bo55b2o25b
obo54b2obo7bob4o3b3o$270bo4bo56bobo24bo2bo58bo5bo3b2o5bo$272b2o58bo5b
2o22b2o54bo2bob2o2bob2o3bo3bo$319b2o17bobo23bo59bo4bob3o3bo$317b2ob2o
16bo5b2o7b2o7b4o54b4o3bo7b2o$317b4o23bobo4bo4bo4bo4bo45b6o7bo2b6o$318b
2o9b6o9bo5bo6bo5bo2bo44bo5bo4bob2o6bo$328bo5bo15bo6bo5bo2bo50bo4bo7b2o
$334bo15b3o2bobo7bo45bo4bo10bo2bo$269b2o57bo4bo17b2o6bob4o48b2o12bobo$
267bo4bo57b2o24bo2bo3bo$273bo88bo$267bo5bo84b5o$268b6o76b6o$349bo5bo2b
5o$355bo6bo$349bo4bo4bo3bo$351b2o6bob4o$357bo7bo$357bo5bo2bo$354bob2o
5bo2bo$354bo6bo4bo$362b4o$364bo$362b2o$359bo2bo$359bobo!


This is slightly of topic to this forum, but I could not find a better forum to put it.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Scorbie » July 23rd, 2016, 10:20 am

Goldtiger997 wrote:I am wondering if breeders such as this one are notable enough to post, or they are kind of trivial.
Nice assembly, but I am afraid that it belongs to the "doable by prior art" side... Well, the synthesis of the puffer train is known, the long-period rake is known, and the breeder doesn't seem to exhibit new interesting behavior nor does it have some other special property (like being the smallest)... Still, I think these experience are the building blocks of new nontrivial constructions.
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 23rd, 2016, 10:39 am

Scorbie wrote:
Goldtiger997 wrote:I am wondering if breeders such as this one are notable enough to post, or they are kind of trivial.
Nice assembly, but I am afraid that it belongs to the "doable by prior art" side...

Sounds about right. Still, the original question was "notable enough to post" -- and of course it's notable enough to post!

It isn't notable enough to attach an official name to, or give it its own page on the LifeWiki, or otherwise make a really huge deal about.

But it's certainly nice to see new constructions like this pop up on the forums, either on one of the all-purpose threads, or on a newly created thread just to see if other people get interested in making modifications -- changing the period to put the puffers closer together so that their ash overlaps, for example, to make as big and chaotic a mess as possible.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby shouldsee » July 23rd, 2016, 11:54 am

Can Golly do asynchronous updating?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Andrew » July 23rd, 2016, 6:54 pm

shouldsee wrote:Can Golly do asynchronous updating?

Golly uses a single thread for calculating generations, rendering patterns, running scripts, etc., so the answer is no (assuming I've understood your question).
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby mollwollfumble » July 24th, 2016, 11:45 pm

Switch Engine and Queen Bee are two small patterns that have finite lifetime but make copies of themselves that live long enough to make another copy of the original.

Are there others like that?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 24th, 2016, 11:55 pm

House is pretty close.

x = 5, y = 12, rule = LifeHistory
2A.2A$A3.A$.3A7$2D.2D$D3.D$.3D!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » July 27th, 2016, 1:15 pm

Any known stretchers of this wick?

x = 54, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$54o2$54o$2bo2bo
2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo!
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