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What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

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What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 11:40 am

So I was mucking around, trying to make one, and this thing (which I have nicknamed the "Infrequent Flyer, due to its slow fire rate) happened:

#CXRLE Pos=-10,4 Gen=19120
x = 253, y = 258, rule = B3/S23
86b2o$86b2o$75b2o6b2o10bo4bo$75b2o5b3o10bo4bobo53b2o$83b2o10bo7b2o4b2o
45b2o$86b2o2b2o11b2o4b2o32bo4bo10b2o6b2o$86b2o2bo2b2o8b2o36bobo4bo10b
3o5b2o$91b4o5bobo30b2o4b2o7bo10b2o$92bo7bo32b2o4b2o11b2o2b2o$139b2o8b
2o2bo2b2o$141bobo5b4o$143bo7bo$83bobo$83b2o$84bo$158bobo$159b2o$159bo$
23b2o$23b2o52bo$10bo4bo10b2o6b2o39b2o$8bobo4bo10b3o5b2o40b2o141b2o$2o
4b2o7bo10b2o138bo52b2o$2o4b2o11b2o2b2o142b2o39b2o6b2o10bo4bo$6b2o8b2o
2bo2b2o141b2o40b2o5b3o10bo4bobo$8bobo5b4o196b2o10bo7b2o4b2o$10bo7bo
200b2o2b2o11b2o4b2o$68bobo148b2o2bo2b2o8b2o$68b2o154b4o5bobo$69bo155bo
7bo$25bobo145bobo$26b2o146b2o$26bo147bo$216bobo$62bo153b2o$60b2o155bo$
61b2o$33bo147bo$34b2o146b2o$33b2o146b2o$210bo$208b2o$53bobo153b2o$53b
2o$54bo$41bo146bobo$41bo147b2o$40bo148bo$41bo160bo$41bo3bo156bo$41bob
2o158bo$41bob2o157bo$42bo155bo3bo$199b2obo$45b3o151b2obo$201bo2$196b3o
7$32bo$30b2o$31b2o$211bo$212b2o$211b2o$25b2o$24bobo37bo$24bo37bobo$23b
2o38b2o152b2o$179bo37bobo$179bobo37bo$179b2o38b2o71$247b2o$247b2o4$
247bo$246bobo$245bo3bo$246b3o$244b2o3b2o5$249bo$249bo$245b3obo2$244bo$
120bobo121b2obo$246b2o$119bo2$125b2o119b2o3b2o$118bo2bo3bobo118b2o3b2o
$119bobo5bo111bo7b5o$120bo6b2o109bo9bobo$238b3o$248b3o5$231bo$231bobo
15b2o$231b2o16b2o5$224bo$223bo$223b3o3$180bo$179b2o$179bobo$216bo$216b
obo$216b2o5$209bo$208bo$208b3o7$197b3o$202bo$201bobo$200bobo$200bo$
201b6o$202b5o5$213b2o16b2o$213bobo15b2o$213bo$186bo$186bobo$186b2o2$
230b3o$220b3o$181b2o37bo9bobo$182bo38bo7b5o$179b3o46b2o3b2o$179bo48b2o
3b2o3$228b2o$226b2obo$226bo2$227b3obo$231bo$231bo5$226b2o3b2o$228b3o$
227bo3bo$228bobo$229bo4$229b2o$229b2o!


However, this is definitely far from perfect. There has got to be a smaller one. Is there?

How do I make it?
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby dvgrn » January 29th, 2016, 12:49 pm

muzik wrote:So I was mucking around, trying to make one, and this thing (which I have nicknamed the "Infrequent Flyer, due to its slow fire rate) happened...

However, this is definitely far from perfect. There has got to be a smaller one. Is there?

How do I make it?

Does the MWSS gun have to fire at period 300, like your Infrequent Flyer, or are you just looking for the smallest bounding box for an MWSS gun of any period?

A good bet might be a 120 MWSS gun, using Simkin glider guns, and moving the guns as close to the three-glider collision point as they can get without interfering with each other.

To move a gun incrementally closer to the collision point, select and cut it out of the pattern, run the pattern for four ticks, then paste the gun back in one diagonal cell closer. Unless there's a conflict with a nearby gun, the new version should still work.

You can also use a mirror-image gun if it will allow a tighter packing -- in Golly, copy the gun plus a couple of output gliders, type Ctrl+V, type 'x' or 'y' to get a mirror-image gun and '>' or '<" to rotate it back to the correct position. You'll probably have to run the pattern for two ticks after the copy but before the Ctrl+V, so that the gliders will line up.

EDIT: There are also clever tricks involving sparkers, to reduce the number of guns to two, or to knock out every other glider from the p30 streams to give enough time for the constructed MWSSes to move out of the way. Here's some old technology:

#C P60 MWSS gun
#C David Eppstein, 22 August 1999
x = 47, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
16b2o$16b2o4b3o$13b2o6b5o$12b3o5bo3bobo$5bo7b2o6bo3b2o$3b2ob2o8b2o$16b
2o$2bo5bo$24bo$2b2obob2o14bobo$11b2o10b2obo7b2o$11b2o10b2ob2o6bobo$3bo
19b2obob3o6bo$3bo2bo16bobo2bo2bo2bo2bo7b2o$3bo20bo4b2o6bo7b2o$6b2o26bo
bo$7bo26b2o$5bobo$5b2o14bobo$21b2o$22bo$2o3b2o$o5bo5b2o$14bo$bo3bo6b3o
$2b3o8bob2o$16bo$14bobo2$10b3o$10b3o7bo$11bo9bo21bo$2b2o7bo7b3o19bo3bo
$2b2o7bo34bo$10bobo28bo4bo$42b5o$19b2o$10bobo6bobo$11bo7bo$11bo$11bo$
10b3o$10b3o14b2o8bo$27bo2bo6bobo$22b2o2bo3bo7bobo4b2o$21b3o2b2o2bo7bo
2bo3b2o$18bob2o16bobo$11b2o5bo2bo8b3o4bobo$11b2o5bob2o15bo$21b3o$22b2o!

You can even build MWSS guns at period 30 -- just need to use a different construction recipe:

#C p30 MWSS gun
#C by Dietrich Leithner, 5/19/94
x = 63, y = 107
45bo10b2o$44b4o8b2o$27b2o14b2obobo$27bo2bo11b3obo2bo2b2o$19b5o7bo11b2o
bobo3b2o$18bo5bo6bo12b4o9bo$18bo3b2o7bo7bo5bo10b3o$19bo7bo2bo9bo14bo3b
o$27b2o9b3o13bob3obo$55b5o$34bo$34b3o$37bo$36b2o$47bo$45bobo8bo2b2o$
38b3o5b2o8bobo$38b3o14b2o$37bo3bo12b2o$54b2obo$36b2o3b2o12b3o2$5b2o$5b
2o49b2o3b2o$42b2o15bo$41bobo7b2o3bo5bo$43bo7b3o3b2ob2o$50bob2o4bobo$
50b3o6bo$43bo7bo7bo5$2b2o3b2o31b3o15b2o$4b3o32bo3bo14b2o$3bo3bo30bo5bo
$4bobo31bo5bo$5bo4b2o29bo$11bo27bo3bo$11bobo5b2o19b3o7b2o$12b2o5bobo
19b2o6b3o$22bo11bobo4bo7b2obo$2b3o14bo2bo10bo2bo4bo8b3o$8bobo11bo9b2o
5b2o10bo$2bobo4b2o8bobo8b2o3bo8b2o$b5o3bo9b2o11b2o10b2o$2o3b2o17bo8bo
2bo$2o3b2o15b2o10bobo$23b2o2$3bo12bo$b2o14b2o40bo$16b2o10bo2bo25bo3bo$
o31bo11b4o14bo$28bo3bo10bo3bo9bo4bo$bo2bo24b4o14bo10b5o$3b2o38bo2bo$9b
2o9b3o$bo7bo2bo9bo$o3b2o7bo7bo5bo$o5bo6bo12b4o9b2o$b5o7bo11b2obobo3b2o
3b2o$9bo2bo11b3obo2bo2b2o$9b2o14b2obobo$26b4o20bo$27bo21b3o$40bo8bob2o
$38b2ob2o7b3o$50b2o$37bo5bo$57b2o$37b2obob2o13b2o3$38bo$38bo2bo$38bo$
41b2o$42bo$40bobo7bo7bo$40b2o7b3o5b3o$48b2obo4b5o$48b3o4b2o3b2o$35b2o
3b2o7b2o$35bo5bo$55b2o$36bo3bo13bo$37b3o17bo$54bo2bo$54b2ob2o$56b2o$
43b3o$35b2o8bo$36bo7bo8b2o3b2o$33b3o17b2o3b2o$33bo20b5o$55bobo$25bo8bo
2bo$24bobo10bo17b3o$17b2o3b2o3bo5b2o3bo2bo$17b2o3b2o3bo4bobob2o3b4o$
22b2o3bo14b4o5b2o$24bobo5b2o8bo2bo5b2o$25bo16b4o$41b4o10b2o$41bo13b2o!

#C p30 MWSS gun
#C The devices works by hammering a p30 LWSS stream with objects from
#C opposite sides. The upper hammer is simply a p30 oscillator
#C (prepulsar between four tubs). Its usefulness as a hammer was found
#C independently by several Life workers. The hammer "down under" was
#C found, appropriately, by David Bell. (DL, 11 Apr 1998)
x = 70, y = 49
44bo5bo8bo$43bobo3b3o6bobo$44bo3b2ob2o6bo$49b3o$22bo27bo$21bobo$11b2o
6b2o3bo27bo$10bobo4b2obo3bo9b2o15b3o$9b3o4b3obo3bo9b2o10bo3b2ob2o6bo$
2o6b3o4bo2b2obobo21bobo3b3o6bobo$2o7b3o4b2o4bo23bo5bo8bo$10bobo$11b2o
53bo$3b2o15bobo12bo2bo25bo3bo$3b2o15bob2obo13bo11b4o14bo$25bo9bo3bo10b
o3bo9bo4bo$22bo2bo10b4o14bo10b5o$23bo26bo2bo2$51bo$3bo40b2o4b3o$2b3o7b
2o30bo4b2ob2o$2b3o8b2o18b2o7bobo4b2o$12bo13bob2o3b3o6b2o5b2o$2o3b2o15b
o2bo3bo5b2obo11bobo$2o3b2o14b2o2bo4bo4bo2bo12b2o$20b2o5b4o4b2obo$19b3o
7bo3b3o20b3o3b5o$5b2o13b2o11b2o10b2o3b2o4bo4bob3obo$5bobo4b2o7b2o22b2o
3b2o5bo4bo3bo$7b2o2bobo8bo40b3o$6b2o3bo35b3o14bo$6b2o2b2o24bo10b3o$2b
3o31b2o10bo$27b2o2b2o4b2o27b2o$27b2o2b2o4b3o19bo6bo$31b2o4b2o20b2o6b3o
$36b2o20bobo8bo$2b2o3b2o27bo2$3bo3bo37b2o$4b3o37b3o3b2obo$4b3o27b2o5bo
b2o5bo3bo2bo$34b2o5bo2bo4bo4bo2b2o$41bob2o4b4o5b2o8b2o$44b3o3bo7b3o7b
2o$45b2o11b2o$5b2o50b2o$5b2o50bo!

I don't remember offhand what the newest best trick for building MWSSes might be, but the odds seem pretty good that the smallest gun will be period 120 nowadays. If you want higher periods, it doesn't take much space to double glider stream periods with semi-snarks.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 12:56 pm

dvgrn wrote:To move a gun incrementally closer to the collision point, select and cut it out of the pattern, run the pattern for four ticks, then paste the gun back in one diagonal cell closer. Unless there's a conflict with a nearby gun, the new version should still work.


I was doing just this with the IF, and this came out:

#CXRLE Pos=-2,12 Gen=56449
x = 237, y = 242, rule = B3/S23
83bo$81b4o$75b2o3bobob2o14b2o$75b2o2bo2bob3o11bo2bo7bo34bo$80bobob2o
11bo7b2o3bo32b4o$81b4o12bo6bo5bo15b2o14b2obobo3b2o$83bo5bo7bo7b5o8bo7b
o2bo11b3obo2bo2b2o$88bo9bo2bo15bo3b2o7bo11b2obobo$88b3o9b2o15bo5bo6bo
12b4o$118b5o7bo7bo5bo$126bo2bo9bo$126b2o9b3o3$81bo$81bobo$81b2o$146bo$
27bo116bobo$26b4o115b2o$9b2o14b2obobo3b2o$bo7bo2bo11b3obo2bo2b2o38bo
125bo$o3b2o7bo11b2obobo42bo124b4o$o5bo6bo12b4o43b3o116b2o3bobob2o14b2o
$b5o7bo7bo5bo125bo38b2o2bo2bob3o11bo2bo7bo$9bo2bo9bo131bo42bobob2o11bo
7b2o3bo$9b2o9b3o129b3o43b4o12bo6bo5bo$200bo5bo7bo7b5o$205bo9bo2bo$66bo
138b3o9b2o$66bobo$66b2o$29bo131bo$27bobo129bobo$28b2o130b2o$198bo$59bo
138bobo$58bo139b2o$58b3o$36bo131bo$37bo131bo$35b3o129b3o$191bo$190bo$
51bo138b3o$51bobo$51b2o$44bo131bo$42bobo129bobo$43b2o130b2o$183bo$44bo
138bobo$43bo139b2o$43b3o$183bo$184bo$182b3o3$36bo$36bobo$36b2o$191bo$
41b3o145bobo$190b2o2$184b3o4$25b2o$24bobo$24bo$23b2o176b2o$201bobo$
203bo$203b2o27$95bo$96b2o$95b2o$132bo$130b2o$131b2o23$231b2o$230bobo$
229b3o$229b2o$229b2o$230bobo$231bo3$228b2o3b2o$228b2o3b2o2$230b3o$131b
2o97b3o$131bobo97bo$131bo5$229bo$227b2o$228b2o2$232b3o$231bo3bo$230bo
5bo$230bo5bo$220bobo10bo$220b2o9bo3bo$221bo10b3o$117b2o114bo$112bo4bob
o$111bobo5bo$112bo6b2o112b2o$214bo18b2o$212b2o$213b2o6$205bobo$205b2o$
206bo5$199bo$197b2o$198b2o6$190bobo$190b2o$191bo5$184bo3bo$182b2o2b3o$
183b2ob2obo$172b3o5$175bobo17b2o$175b2o17b2o$176bo19bo18b2o$215b2o3$
215bo$203bo10b3o$202b2o9bo3bo$202bobo10bo$212bo5bo$165b2o45bo5bo$166bo
46bo3bo$163b3o48b3o$163bo$210b2o$209b2o$211bo6$213bo$212b3o$212b3o2$
210b2o3b2o$210b2o3b2o3$213bo$212bobo$211b2o$211b2o$211b3o$212bobo$213b
2o!


Doesn't look like its period changed much, if at all.

Will have to try your suggestion.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 1:21 pm

K, here's the smallest simkin-based gun I could make. I'm on an iPad so it's a bit harder to do:

#CXRLE Pos=7,-11 Gen=2247
x = 72, y = 77, rule = B3/S23
9bo$9b3o$12bo$11b2o45bo$56b3o$55bo$55b2o2$2o5b2o$2o5b2o2$4b2o53b2o5b2o
$4b2o53b2o5b2o2$62b2o$62b2o$10bo2bo13b2o$9b2o2bob2o10b2o$8bo4bob2o$15b
2o7b2o5b2o6b2o13bo2bo$8b2o4bo9b2o5b2o6b2o10b2obo2b2o$10b2ob2o36b2obo4b
o$35b2o5b2o7b2o$35b2o5b2o9bo4b2o$53b2ob2o20$51b2o$51b2o3$54b2o$54b2o2$
51b2o$51b2o2$33b2o$32b3o$32b3o$32b2obo$33b3o$34bo$53b2o$51bo$51bo2bo$
52b2o$52b2o14b2o$51bo2bo13bobo$54bo15bo$51b3o16b2o$62b2o$62b2o2$59b2o$
59b2o$30b2o$29bobo4bo$29bo5bobo24b2o$28b2o6bo25b2o!


Not the best, could do with very many improvements, but at least it works!
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby biggiemac » January 29th, 2016, 4:12 pm

Here is a page listing a lot of *WSS guns that don't involve a glider synthesis. The smallest MWSS gun listed there is this p44 gun from 1997 by Dieter Leithner, based off changing the spark of David Buckingham's p44 glider gun before it forms a glider.

x = 44, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
24bo$23bobo$23bobo$21b3ob2o$20bo$21b3ob2o$23bob2o$40bo$38bo3bo$43bo$
38bo4bo$39b5o2$27b2o$25b2obo$25b3o2b2o$24bo$23b2o11b2o$18b2o2b2o12bo$
18b2o14bobo$13bo20b2o$13b3o$16bo$15b2o3$18bo6bo$b2o14b3o4b3o14b2o$obo
13b2o2bo2bo2b2o13bobo$obob2o10bo3bo2bo3bo10b2obobo$bobobo8b3o3bo2bo3b
3o8bobobo$3bo12bo3bo2bo3bo12bo$bo2bo16b2o16bo2bo$4bo11bo10bo11bo$o3bo
8bo2bo10bo2bo8bo3bo$o3bo6b2o4b2o6b2o4b2o6bo3bo$4bo8bo2bo10bo2bo8bo$bo
2bo11bo10bo11bo2bo$3bo17b2o17bo$bobobo10bo3bo2bo3bo10bobobo$obob2o8b3o
3bo2bo3b3o8b2obobo$obo13bo3bo2bo3bo13bobo$b2o13b2o2bo2bo2b2o13b2o$17b
3o4b3o$18bo6bo5$17b2o6b2o$17b2o6b2o!


Whether it's the smallest possible, I highly doubt we will ever have a definitive answer. But it's pretty nifty if I do say so myself :)

It turns out that this gun is present on the wiki, but only on the page P44 pi-heptomino hassler which isn't where anyone who hasn't seen it before would think to look for a compact MWSS gun..
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby dvgrn » January 29th, 2016, 5:13 pm

muzik wrote:K, here's the smallest simkin-based gun I could make. I'm on an iPad so it's a bit harder to do:

...x = 72, y = 77, rule = B3/S23...


Not the best, could do with very many improvements, but at least it works!

It can get crunched down a little bit smaller, anyway:

x = 57, y = 61, rule = LifeHistory
47.2A.A$47.A.2A5$7.2A23.2A2.2A$7.2A23.2A2.2A9.2A5.2A$31.2A6.A7.2A5.2A
$32.A7.A$10.2A20.2A.2A.2A10.2A$2A8.2A20.2A3.A12.2A$.A$A6.A$2A5.2A$7.
3A17.2A$9.A17.2A$11.A$6.2A3.A11.2A5.2A$6.2A15.2A5.2A$10.A$6.A2.A$7.3A
3$24.A$22.A.A$23.2A$29.A7.2A$29.A.A5.2A$18.2A9.2A$18.2A$40.2A$15.2A
23.2A$15.2A$37.2A$30.A6.2A$18.2A9.2A$18.2A9.A.A2$47.3A$48.A$46.3A10$
48.2A5.2A$48.2A6.A$55.A$45.2A8.2A$23.2A20.2A$22.A.A4.A$22.A5.A.A$21.
2A6.A18.2A$48.2A!

biggiemac wrote:Whether [the p44 MWSS gun is] the smallest possible, I highly doubt we will ever have a definitive answer...

Well, if you state the question like that, I'll bet a nickel that we will have a definitive answer. 44x51 is big enough that somebody sometime will probably stumble over a smaller MWSS gun.

We just won't ever know what the absolute smallest MWSS gun is -- unless there happens to be, say, a high-period 8x8 oscillator-gun pattern that wobbles around and spits out an MWSS every 20 ticks (or whatever).

An exhaustive search of all 8x8 patterns is not completely out of the question. For example, it's only about ten thousand times as much work as Catagolue/apgsearch has collected to date, so a really good high-performance computing cluster could finish an 8x8 enumeration search in a few years, maybe less. It probably wouldn't actually find an 8x8 MWSS gun, but a lot of other interesting stuff would most likely turn up.

9x9, on the other hand, is a hundred thousand times more work than 8x8, so unless we're really patient and let Moore's Law keep working its magic, a 9x9 MWSS gun might never end up getting found, even if it's out there.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 5:18 pm

Since the simkin gun can fire out of two sides at once, is it possible to reflect some of those extra gliders back around to make the ship, so you only need to make 1.5 guns (the half a gun would be the one with the extra glider patched by an eater)?


Also, is there any way to convert a MWSS into a glider using a still life which will not be destroyed? I want to see if I can synthesise the other weight spaceships with a MWSS gun.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 5:32 pm

Better late than never: I'm looking for the gun with the lowest amount of cells.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby dvgrn » January 29th, 2016, 6:21 pm

muzik wrote:Since the simkin gun can fire out of two sides at once, is it possible to reflect some of those extra gliders back around to make the ship, so you only need to make 1.5 guns (the half a gun would be the one with the extra glider patched by an eater)?

Yes, that can definitely be done. However, even a single 90-degree Snark reflector has almost twice as many ON cells as a Simkin glider gun, and it takes a lot of space to route gliders around like that. So it's pretty clear that you won't really save anything, whether you measure by population or by bounding box.

muzik wrote:Also, is there any way to convert a MWSS into a glider using a still life which will not be destroyed? I want to see if I can synthesise the other weight spaceships with a MWSS gun.

You're in luck -- a new converter was discovered a few months ago, to go along with Sokwe's impressively small converter from last year. Both MWSS->Gs can be found in this racetrack pattern:

x = 151, y = 82, rule = B3/S23
119bo11b2o$86bo31bobo10b2o$84b3o5b2o24bobo$83bo7bobo22b3ob2o$83b2o7bo
22bo$116b3ob2o$34b2o82bob2o$35bo3b2o$34bo4b2o$34b2o42b2o$36bo40bo2bo$
34b3o40bo2bo$33bo44b2o10bo$33b2o54bobo16b2o13b2o$89bobo16b2o13b2o$90bo
47b2o$137bo2bo$138b2obo$141bo$141b2o$126b2o18b2o$127bo18bo$124b3o21bo$
124bo2b3o14b5o$126bo2bo13bo$125b2o2bobo12b3o$67bo62b2o15bo$65b3o76b4o$
64bo74b2o3bo3b2o$64b2o73b2o4b3o2bo$147bob2o$147bo$68b3o75b2o$70bo$7b2o
60bo$7b2o111bo17b2o$54b2o62b3o17bo$53bobo5b2o54bo21b3o$b2o50bo7b2o54b
2o22bo$b2o49b2o$5b2o$5b2o59bo20b2o15bo$45bo16b2obobo18bobo13b3o$26b2o
16bobo14bobobobo18bo14bo$26b2o16bobo11bo2bobobobob2o12b2ob2o13b2o$2o
43bo12b4ob2o2bo2bo13bobo20b2o$2o60bo4b2o14bo2bobo17bobo5b2o$60bobo20b
2o2b2o17bo7b2o$60b2o43b2o2$86bob2o9bo19bo$84b3ob2o8bobo14b2obobo$83bo
14bobo13bobobobo$43bo40b3ob2o9bo11bo2bobobobob2o$42bobo5b2o34bobo3b2o
11b2o4b4ob2o2bo2bo$42b2o6bo24b2o9bobo2bobo11bobo7bo4b2o$51b3o6b2o13bo
11bo3bo15bo5bobo$53bo6b2o11bobo14b2o15b2o4b2o$73b2o10bo$85b3o$88bo$87b
2o$102b2o$102bo$42b2o55b2obo$42b2o54bo2bo$99b2o$84b2o$84b2o$5b2o$5b2o
21b2o$11b2o15bo16b2o$11b2o16b3o14bo24b2o3bo$31bo13bo13b2o3b2o5bo3bobo$
45b2o13bo3bo7bo3bobo$9b2o46b3o5b3o5bo3bobob2o$9b2o5b2o39bo9bo3bob4o2bo
b2o$16b2o52bobo3bobo$70bobo2bo2b2ob2o$71bo3b2o2bobo$79bobo10b2o$80bo
11b2o!

Also check through that linked thread for miscellaneous existing LWSS and HWSS technology.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 6:37 pm

dvgrn wrote:
muzik wrote:Also, is there any way to convert a MWSS into a glider using a still life which will not be destroyed? I want to see if I can synthesise the other weight spaceships with a MWSS gun.

You're in luck -- a new converter was discovered a few months ago, to go along with Sokwe's impressively small converter from last year.
Also check through that linked thread for miscellaneous existing LWSS and HWSS technology.

That is really nice! Only problem is I don't know how to get it to be close enough to a glider stream to synthesise an object. Pretty complex, but basically I want to make a loafer gun (which I understand has been achieved already, but oh well), and you can't simply out the glider guns too close to each other as either the gun itself or the glider stream it produces will wreck the other gun.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby dvgrn » January 29th, 2016, 7:21 pm

muzik wrote:That is really nice! Only problem is I don't know how to get it to be close enough to a glider stream to synthesise an object. Pretty complex, but basically I want to make a loafer gun (which I understand has been achieved already, but oh well), and you can't simply out the glider guns too close to each other as either the gun itself or the glider stream it produces will wreck the other gun.

The thread you're looking for might be the Edge Shooters of Every Period thread. It was also started by a newcomer, so people spend some time explaining the basics, as I recall.

There's also the Thread for Your Synthesizable Spaceship Guns, starting at the linked message. And you'll find some edge-shooters in Small Spaceship Syntheses, and elsewhere -- follow any likely links you see in the above threads.

It's true that quite a few loafer guns have already been constructed -- but how about a glider-to-loafer converter? Nobody has made one of those yet. With only eight synchronized gliders, it should be an order of magnitude easier than the glider-to-weekender converter (and you can borrow a lot of the timing adjustment mechanisms, once you figure out how they work.)

(EDIT: Well, technically now there is one -- but until it's patched up a bit it will have an extraordinarily slow repeat time.)
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 29th, 2016, 8:04 pm

So, the process of having two gliders flying close to each other is called edge shooting?
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby biggiemac » January 29th, 2016, 9:10 pm

They're related. The gliders themselves are called a salvo, "edge shooter" refers to a spaceship gun for which the output comes out on the side rather than from the middle. Glider edge shooters are good for syntheses because you can put them much closer to an existing glider stream, using them to make tight salvos.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » January 30th, 2016, 7:29 am

I have managed to make a LWSS gun:

#CXRLE Pos=35,40 Gen=12243
x = 82, y = 95, rule = B3/S23
38bo7bo$37bobo5bobo$37bobo5bobo$35b3ob2o3b2ob3o$34bo15bo$35b3ob2o3b2ob
3o$37bob2o3b2obo20$8b2o$8b2o3$11b2o$11b2o2$8b2o$8b2o$2o13b3o$bo13bo$bo
bo11b3o$2b2o$16bo$16b3o$18b3o$18b2o21b3o$40bo2bo$43bo$43bo$40bobo4$19b
2o$19b2o2$16b2o$16b2o3$19b2o$19b2o40b2o$61b2o3$23b2o39b2o$23b2o39b2o2$
61b2o$20b2o39b2o$20b2o2$23b2o$23b2o4$61bobo$61bo$63bobo$65bo$22b2o40bo
bo11b2o$22b3o40b2o11bobo$20b3o44bo12bo$20bo44b2o13b2o$6b2o57bo6b2o$5bo
bo11b3o50b2o$5bo13bo$4b2o13b3o47b2o$12b2o55b2o$12b2o2$15b2o55b2o$15b2o
55b2o3$12b2o$12b2o!


The heavyweight one is definitely going to need a salvo, and I don't know how exactly to fit the gliders in.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » February 8th, 2016, 8:47 pm

This evolves into a middleweight spaceship, can someone create this?

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2bo$bo$o2b2o$o2bo$2o!
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » March 3rd, 2017, 2:13 pm

And here, finally, is my handmade, really bad HWSS gun:

x = 103, y = 104, rule = B3/S23
11bo$11b3o$14bo$13b2o$81bo$79b3o$78bo$78b2o$2b2o5b2o$2b2o5b2o2$6b2o$6b
2o74b2o5b2o$10b3o69b2o5b2o$9b2obo$8b2obo73b2o$9bobo17b2o50bo3b2o$10b2o
4bo12b2o49bob2o$14bobo63bo3bo$15b2o9b2o5b2o45b2o2bo$26b2o5b2o27b2o16b
2ob2o$62b2o13bo3b2o$75b2o$58b2o5b2o9b2o$58b2o5b2o23$46bo$44bobo$45b2o
2$47bo$45b2o$46b2o$43b2o$42bobo$44bo$53b3o$53bo$54bo10$82b2o$82b2o3$
85b2o$85b2o2$82b2o$82b2o6$24b2o5b2o$13b2o9b2o5b2o$12bobo$8b2o4bo12b2o$
7bobo17b2o54b3o$6b2obo73bo$7b2obo73bo14b2o$8b3o88bobo$4b2o82b2o11bo$4b
2o79b3obo11b2o$85bo2b2o3b2o$2o5b2o77b3o4b2o$2o5b2o78bo$90b2o$90b2o3$
11b2o80b2o$12bo80b2o$9b3o$9bo!


Used the 4G synthesis since edgeshooting gliders with basic technology is awkward.



Minor spatial compression:
x = 93, y = 94, rule = B3/S23
11bo$11b3o$14bo$13b2o$71bo$69b3o$68bo$68b2o$2b2o5b2o$2b2o5b2o2$6b2o$6b
2o64b2o5b2o$10b3o59b2o5b2o$9b2obo$8b2obo63b2o$9bobo17b2o40bo3b2o$10b2o
4bo12b2o39bob2o$14bobo53bo3bo$15b2o9b2o5b2o35b2o2bo$26b2o5b2o17b2o16b
2ob2o$52b2o13bo3b2o$65b2o$48b2o5b2o9b2o$48b2o5b2o18$41bo$39bobo$40b2o
2$42bo$40b2o$41b2o$38b2o$37bobo$39bo$48b3o$48bo$49bo5$72b2o$72b2o3$75b
2o$75b2o2$72b2o$72b2o6$24b2o5b2o$13b2o9b2o5b2o$12bobo$8b2o4bo12b2o$7bo
bo17b2o44b3o$6b2obo63bo$7b2obo63bo14b2o$8b3o78bobo$4b2o72b2o11bo$4b2o
69b3obo11b2o$75bo2b2o3b2o$2o5b2o67b3o4b2o$2o5b2o68bo$80b2o$80b2o3$11b
2o70b2o$12bo70b2o$9b3o$9bo!


Major spatial reduction:
x = 69, y = 70, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$10bo2bo45b2o$10bo48b2o$10bo2bo$10b2ob2o$14bo41b2o$13b2o41b2o2$
59b2o$3b2o5b2o47b2o$4bo5bob2o53b2o$4bobo3bo3bo52bo$5b2o3b2o2bo50bobo$
11b3o51b2o$12bo$58bob2o$57b5o$57b4o$25bobo$26b2o30b3o$26bo31b3o$59bo$
41bo$41bobo$22b2o17b2o$22b2o24b2o$48b2o$19b2o$19b2o30b2o$51b2o2$22b2o$
22b2o24b2o$48b2o6$24bo$24b2o$23bobo5b2o5b2o$31b2o5b2o9b2o$48b2o$35b2o
13bo3b2o$35b2o16b2ob2o$53b2o2bo$53bo3bo$53bob2o$24b2o5b2o21bo3b2o$24b
2o5b2o25b2o2$27b2o26b2o5b2o$27b2o26b2o5b2o4$4b2o$4b2o11b2o2bo29b2o$16b
3o2b2o28bo$2o5b2o8b2o2b3o28b3o$2o5b2o8b2o2b2o31bo5$11b2o$12bo$9b3o$9bo
!
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby gmc_nxtman » March 3rd, 2017, 7:43 pm

#C From Stephen Silver's spaceship gun collection
x = 58, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
34b3o6b2o5b2o$33bo2bo6b2o5b2o$19bo16bo$17b3o12bo3bo$16bo15bo3bo$16b2o
18bo$27bo5bobo$27bobo$26bobo$11bo16bo$13b3o$12bo4bo25bo7bo$18bo$12bo5b
o22b3o7b3o$12bo29b2ob2ob2ob2o$13bo3bo25b3o3b3o$10bo33bo5bo$15bobo$2b2o
10bo2b3o$bobo7bobo2b2ob2o2b2o$bo8b2ob2ob2ob2o2b2o$2o9bo2bo2b3o$12b2o2b
o2bo9b2o$12b2o3b3o8bobo$17b2o10bo10b6o10b2o$10bo4bo23bo2b4o6b2obobo$9b
obo2b2o29b2o5b2obo$9bobobobo24b2o14bo$6bo3b2o15bobo2bo8bo10b2ob2o$4b2o
21b3obob2o7b3o8bobo$6b2o18bo6bo9bo9bobo$5bo21bo5b2o19bo$42bobo$10b2o
14b2o5bo7bob2o$11bo15bo6bo6bo$8b3o15b2obob3o6b2o$8bo19bo2bobo!
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby Gamedziner » March 3rd, 2017, 7:54 pm

gmc_nxtman wrote:
#C From Stephen Silver's spaceship gun collection
x = 58, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
34b3o6b2o5b2o$33bo2bo6b2o5b2o$19bo16bo$17b3o12bo3bo$16bo15bo3bo$16b2o
18bo$27bo5bobo$27bobo$26bobo$11bo16bo$13b3o$12bo4bo25bo7bo$18bo$12bo5b
o22b3o7b3o$12bo29b2ob2ob2ob2o$13bo3bo25b3o3b3o$10bo33bo5bo$15bobo$2b2o
10bo2b3o$bobo7bobo2b2ob2o2b2o$bo8b2ob2ob2ob2o2b2o$2o9bo2bo2b3o$12b2o2b
o2bo9b2o$12b2o3b3o8bobo$17b2o10bo10b6o10b2o$10bo4bo23bo2b4o6b2obobo$9b
obo2b2o29b2o5b2obo$9bobobobo24b2o14bo$6bo3b2o15bobo2bo8bo10b2ob2o$4b2o
21b3obob2o7b3o8bobo$6b2o18bo6bo9bo9bobo$5bo21bo5b2o19bo$42bobo$10b2o
14b2o5bo7bob2o$11bo15bo6bo6bo$8b3o15b2obob3o6b2o$8bo19bo2bobo!

Isn't that HWSS?
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby muzik » March 5th, 2017, 8:01 am

Gamedziner wrote:
gmc_nxtman wrote:
#C From Stephen Silver's spaceship gun collection

Isn't that HWSS?

Yes it quite obviously is, since I posted my HWSS gun.
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Re: What is the smallest possible MWSS gun?

Postby simeks » March 6th, 2017, 6:18 pm

biggiemac wrote:The smallest MWSS gun listed there is this p44 gun from 1997 by Dieter Leithner, based off changing the spark of David Buckingham's p44 glider gun before it forms a glider.

x = 44, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
24bo$23bobo$23bobo$21b3ob2o$20bo$21b3ob2o$23bob2o$40bo$38bo3bo$43bo$
38bo4bo$39b5o2$27b2o$25b2obo$25b3o2b2o$24bo$23b2o11b2o$18b2o2b2o12bo$
18b2o14bobo$13bo20b2o$13b3o$16bo$15b2o3$18bo6bo$b2o14b3o4b3o14b2o$obo
13b2o2bo2bo2b2o13bobo$obob2o10bo3bo2bo3bo10b2obobo$bobobo8b3o3bo2bo3b
3o8bobobo$3bo12bo3bo2bo3bo12bo$bo2bo16b2o16bo2bo$4bo11bo10bo11bo$o3bo
8bo2bo10bo2bo8bo3bo$o3bo6b2o4b2o6b2o4b2o6bo3bo$4bo8bo2bo10bo2bo8bo$bo
2bo11bo10bo11bo2bo$3bo17b2o17bo$bobobo10bo3bo2bo3bo10bobobo$obob2o8b3o
3bo2bo3b3o8b2obobo$obo13bo3bo2bo3bo13bobo$b2o13b2o2bo2bo2b2o13b2o$17b
3o4b3o$18bo6bo5$17b2o6b2o$17b2o6b2o!

Whether it's the smallest possible, I highly doubt we will ever have a definitive answer.

Because of this it's now slightly smaller:

x = 41, y = 48, rule = LifeHistory
25.2A$22.2A2.A$20.3A.2A$19.A$20.3A.2A$22.A.2A$37.A$35.A3.A$40.A$35.A
4.A$36.5A$27.A$26.3A$25.A.A.A$25.A3.A$23.2A5.A$22.A12.2A$17.2A2.2A2.
2A8.A$17.2A4.A.2A5.2A.A$12.A20.2A$12.3A17.A$2.2A11.A$2.A2.A8.2A$4.2A$
3.3A31.2A$3.A33.2A$.2A31.3A$17.A6.A11.A$2.2A5.2A5.3A4.3A10.3A$9.2A4.
2A2.A2.A2.2A10.2A$3.A15.A2.A15.A$14.A3.A.2A.A3.A9.A$3.3A12.6A$2.3A7.A
4.2A4.2A4.A7.2A$10.3A3.2A6.2A3.3A$3.2A7.A4.2A4.2A4.A7.3A$18.6A12.3A$
3.A10.A3.A.2A.A3.A$4.A14.A2.A15.A$3.2A10.2A2.A2.A2.2A4.2A$2.3A7.2A2.
3A4.3A5.2A5.2A$2.A9.A4.A6.A$3A5.2A3.A25.2A$3.2A3.A2.A.A24.A$3.2A5.2A
2.2A5.2A13.3A$11.A3.A6.A13.2A$9.A4.A4.3A14.A2.A$9.2A3.2A3.A18.2A!
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